Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Inside the World of Next Level Chef with Iman Kawa | Ep. 145

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Inside the World of Next Level Chef with Iman Kawa | Ep. 145 · Chef's PSA Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello, chefs. This is Chefs PSA.
• 0:01
  I'm your host, Andre Notero. Today's guest is Iman Kala.
• 0:05
  She's a current competitor on Next Level Chef.
• 0:07
  She's the owner of Better Than Your Mother's Cookies.
• 0:10
  She's Michelin trained and worked in some of the best
• 0:12
  restaurants in New York City. Stay tuned,
• 0:26
  Next Level Chef. Oh boy, so I binge watched it
• 0:31
  right, So I'm 4 episodes in. I fucking love it.
• 0:34
  And by the way, I have to tell you, I normally don't watch like
• 0:36
  cooking shows. I hate to say that I don't watch
• 0:39
  it like I'll have unless I have a friend that's on I'm normally
• 0:42
  not watching it. And then I normally just tell my
• 0:44
  friend, Oh yeah, I saw it. But like saw like highlights on
• 0:46
  you. But I tell you, I started binge
• 0:50
  watching it Sunday. Thanks.
• 0:52
  And as like I saw, I was like, I'm going to watch one episode,
• 0:55
  but I like OK, I'm lying. I skipped 1 episode.
• 0:59
  I saw the first episode and then I skipped the second episode.
• 1:03
  Is like maybe the home cooks? I skipped it.
• 1:05
  Oh my God, I did the same. Thing, no offense.
• 1:07
  Home cooks, Yeah. Guys are great.
• 1:09
  Don't be offense, I. Only had a little bit of time.
• 1:11
  I only had a little bit of time, yeah.
• 1:12
  So I skipped the second one, and then I watched 3:00 and 4:00.
• 1:15
  You're on it. It's great.
• 1:17
  So the reason I'm telling you this is because I was like, I
• 1:19
  normally like, I'm gonna watch 10 minutes, but I was like
• 1:21
  fucking hooked. It's great.
• 1:22
  Really. Yeah, so great.
• 1:23
  Shout out Fox for making a a likable TV show.
• 1:26
  Yeah, it's it's entertaining. I was like, holy shit.
• 1:28
  I don't fully understand it. So I'm gonna ask you some
• 1:31
  questions about it. Let's do it.
• 1:33
  So whoever wins wins $250,000. Great.
• 1:36
  Put it in Bitcoin. Anyone that's listening to
• 1:38
  whoever wins, like convert that, don't put it in USD inflation.
• 1:42
  But anyway, taxes, taxes, right? Second, what's the one year
• 1:46
  mentorship? I don't understand Like what
• 1:47
  does that look like? Supposedly you get access to
• 1:50
  Gordon Ramsay, Naisha Arrington and Richard Blase.
• 1:54
  All three or do you have to? Pick all three.
• 1:56
  That's great for one full year and so.
• 1:58
  What does Access look like? Like you check in, like you send
• 2:01
  them a text or like whatever, you get their personal number.
• 2:04
  You have coffee with them. Allowed to say OK, OK, so.
• 2:08
  But it's vague, like I don't know.
• 2:09
  But like for the previous winners, do they tell?
• 2:12
  They do. They do.
• 2:13
  But I I I'm not sure that I should, like, talk.
• 2:16
  Yeah. I wanna get you in trouble.
• 2:17
  Yeah. I'm just curious, like, what's
• 2:20
  the mentorship like? I'm like, what is what would a
• 2:22
  mentorship with Gordon Ramsay and Naisha and and and Richard
• 2:25
  Blais look like? Like I, I mean, that's pretty
• 2:27
  cool. That's that that right?
• 2:29
  There, supposedly you have an open line.
• 2:30
  You have an open line of communication to them for an
• 2:33
  entire year. It's not like to send them
• 2:35
  memes. No, yeah, you can't do that.
• 2:37
  Yeah, don't waste his time. Gordon Gordon's busy on like 10
• 2:39
  TV shows opening another restaurant, Hexa Cloud, you
• 2:43
  know, the whole. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:45
  OK. So that's pretty cool.
• 2:46
  And then so for people that have never seen the show, I'm going
• 2:50
  to try and do it justice. I've only seen four episodes.
• 2:52
  OK, but there's like a platform. There's 33 levels, right?
• 2:56
  So the top level is like a state-of-the-art kitchen.
• 2:58
  The middle level is like a pretty good kitchen, and then
• 3:00
  the bottom level is like everything's fucked.
• 3:02
  It's it's like getting hired in a bad restaurant that hasn't put
• 3:05
  any investment in. It that's right, Like literally
• 3:07
  right now you're talking about this and I'm getting like, I
• 3:09
  want to throw up again thinking about this confidence, it keeps
• 3:11
  going. So you have the three levels and
• 3:14
  then there's a platform with ingredients like an elevator
• 3:17
  that's going down and people are picking ingredients off this
• 3:20
  elevator that's going down. And then because if you're on
• 3:23
  the bottom floor, most likely you're getting, you know, the,
• 3:27
  the leftovers that people didn't want, right?
• 3:29
  Because they've already taken the center cuts and the steaks
• 3:32
  and the lobster and everything else, right?
• 3:35
  And then there's three groups of, of contestants.
• 3:38
  So there's there's home cooks, there's content creators like
• 3:43
  food influencers and then people that have worked in professional
• 3:46
  kitchens, right. And after a process of
• 3:49
  elimination, they've now commingled and they're on three
• 3:52
  teams with Gordon Naisha and Richard Blase.
• 3:55
  Is that so far? Nailed it.
• 3:57
  OK, how much time you guys have to cook 'cause it looks fucking?
• 4:01
  20 minutes. Stressful. 20 minutes.
• 4:04
  It looks so stressful. I was.
• 4:05
  I'm telling you, I'm getting PTSD hearing you talk about it.
• 4:08
  I'm like I want to throw. Up I was watching it and like
• 4:10
  This is why I can never do a show.
• 4:12
  I'd walk out like I I ain't doing that like sorry you gave
• 4:14
  me. I don't remember who got like,
• 4:18
  like I think they got beef liver.
• 4:20
  Oh yeah, Megan. Like I know I'm not going to win
• 4:22
  with beef liver. I'm just going to stop.
• 4:23
  Like I'm just, I'm just going to chill.
• 4:25
  I'm going to go be their sous chef and help them because I
• 4:27
  know I'm going to get eliminated.
• 4:28
  Imagine. Yeah.
• 4:30
  But it was good. So how how was how was the
• 4:31
  experience for you? Like what?
• 4:33
  Tell us your experience that you can share.
• 4:35
  Man, I'm not 100%. I like I want to tell you the no
• 4:38
  you can. Only tell me through 4 episodes
• 4:40
  because that's what's out. Right.
• 4:42
  OK. So the experience, it's so cool.
• 4:44
  Like I think, you know, very different if you're a
• 4:49
  competitive person, like especially if you've like
• 4:51
  competed in sports, if you were like the asshole in the kitchen
• 4:55
  who was like dying to get to meet station on your first day,
• 4:58
  like that's for you. That is for you.
• 5:00
  If you're a very competitive individual, you will enjoy it.
• 5:04
  Yeah, it is intense to say the least.
• 5:07
  How much time do you guys have to do what when you get your
• 5:10
  ingredient? 20 minutes.
• 5:12
  That's it, That's it. You can't.
• 5:13
  I mean, I hate to say it, you can't really make great food
• 5:15
  with 20. Minutes.
• 5:16
  I agree with that. Like, like, I mean, you can make
• 5:17
  something, but it's. Not something but like, you're
• 5:19
  not exactly. You're not Yeah, exactly.
• 5:21
  You want to make serious, like, you know, that's why it's like
• 5:24
  all next level. You know, the next level in 20
• 5:26
  minutes is like, ridiculous. Did you brine your chicken,
• 5:29
  chef? I imagine can you so yes, you
• 5:33
  have 20 minutes that your grab is 30 seconds.
• 5:37
  You have 30 seconds to conceptualize the dish and you
• 5:40
  know that this like platform is going to move.
• 5:43
  You need to make the right decision based on the time that
• 5:45
  you have to cook, what's in front of you, what you know and
• 5:48
  like you know, putting out stuff that's going to there's.
• 5:50
  A pantry that you could like salt, pepper, spice, right?
• 5:54
  Rice. No rice.
• 5:56
  No, no, no. It's in that Panther.
• 5:57
  So you have like butter, you have like staple ingredients.
• 6:00
  You know what I mean? Like exactly like spices.
• 6:02
  You have some butters, you have oils, you have the stuff that
• 6:05
  you need to. Vinegars.
• 6:06
  Vinegar, stuff like that. But they're very basic.
• 6:08
  Got it. So you definitely need to have
• 6:10
  skills as a chef in order to compete and do well on this show
• 6:13
  well. When I when I look at that, I
• 6:14
  think it's interesting because it probably equalizes a home
• 6:17
  cook and a professional chef a little bit a little bit
• 6:20
  slightly. Slightly what?
• 6:22
  What equalizes it for you'll? Have time now.
• 6:24
  Right, right. Exactly.
• 6:25
  So, so they're, they're, it's, it's not, you already have an
• 6:28
  advantage. You've worked in Michelin star
• 6:29
  kitchens, you're a professional, you went to culinary school,
• 6:31
  you've been doing it at length. This person just started last
• 6:35
  year when you know, the magic act closed or whatever, right?
• 6:39
  So, so you're competing against, it's like how like it's not a
• 6:41
  fair fight, right? So they have to make it a little
• 6:44
  bit fair. And I see that as being like,
• 6:46
  well, the time makes it a little bit more fair.
• 6:49
  I think the time and I think the biggest thing for me is the
• 6:51
  platform stuff like that's what really, really puts you on like
• 6:55
  the same page with everybody else only because it's like you
• 7:00
  don't, you have to sometimes you don't see like what's actually
• 7:04
  there, the way things are positioned.
• 7:05
  It depends on where you are, where you ran, where you grab.
• 7:08
  And so it's like, and if you're not crushing it every single
• 7:11
  cook, you don't get to get better for the next one because
• 7:14
  you Start learning, you start understanding, like, you know,
• 7:17
  you start timing your grabs better, you start understanding
• 7:20
  how to look for things a little bit better each time you cook.
• 7:23
  But if you're not cooked, if you're not beast every single
• 7:25
  time, you're not going to make it to be able to do better the
• 7:27
  next one. You know what I mean?
• 7:29
  So I would say the platform is really for me what equalized
• 7:32
  every because I think also as a chef, if you have it is hard to
• 7:37
  make something delicious in 20 minutes, but I can't imagine you
• 7:40
  not being a badass in 20 minutes.
• 7:41
  Someone who has 20 plus years of experience in a kitchen, you,
• 7:44
  you would know what to do. So I think really the part that
• 7:47
  like for me felt like, damn, where I thought like I have one
• 7:51
  up on everybody else. But now I think we're all in the
• 7:53
  same playing field is the platform.
• 7:56
  Yeah, but also like on that, on that bottom level, it's like,
• 7:59
  OK, I have one up on you. But then the utensil bane is
• 8:03
  broken and it falls over. Like as a professional, as a
• 8:06
  professional, as I like to say, when, when I'm chef Andre
• 8:10
  versus, you know, podcast chef's PSA Andre, it's a different
• 8:13
  person when I'm chef Andre, if that bane falls over, I'm not
• 8:16
  going to be happy, right? You know what I mean?
• 8:18
  Like, so I could see like as a professional, like a, like a
• 8:22
  hardcore professional chef, when these little things happen, they
• 8:25
  probably irritate you more than the home cook because the home
• 8:28
  cook might be used to like the talents have to be folded
• 8:30
  perfectly for the home cook. Right, right, right.
• 8:32
  You know what I mean? The cutting board doesn't have
• 8:33
  to be just right. It can soak.
• 8:34
  It could slide a little bit. Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 8:36
  It doesn't annoy them as much. You could tell actually that was
• 8:39
  probably one of my biggest things, like different from
• 8:41
  everybody else is that I was super clean, super like there's
• 8:44
  I think on the second or third episode you can see me like
• 8:47
  putting out my little containers and like making sure that all my
• 8:50
  Mizan pals were tight. Then I remember like in one of
• 8:53
  my, I can't fuck, I can't go that far.
• 8:55
  But there's a moment where, like my my team noted about like
• 8:59
  there's there's those are the small details for sure.
• 9:02
  And I think like from the bottom level you, I think, though, as a
• 9:05
  pro chef, you'd be able to like you don't grab the shitty beans
• 9:09
  like you, you work around it. Like those are the things I
• 9:11
  think that as a pro you, you like, how many times have we
• 9:16
  worked with like, especially in New York City, right?
• 9:18
  Like, I don't know everywhere else, but in New York City
• 9:21
  you're working with limited space.
• 9:23
  Right, right. Vertical kitchens, right?
• 9:24
  So learn how to work up. 11 Then you also like at Danielle, OK,
• 9:30
  it's Danielle, but like, you had four fucking spatulas.
• 9:33
  You better show up an hour early if you want to get one, you
• 9:35
  know, And then if not, you get the shitty one or go buy one.
• 9:38
  But you're broke because you don't get paid a lot.
• 9:40
  You know what I'm saying? So there's a lot of that
• 9:42
  basement that I was not used to for sure, because I've never
• 9:45
  cooked in such a shitty kit. Never.
• 9:47
  But there, there are aspects of it that you, you know, how to
• 9:50
  work around because you've kind of been through all that
• 9:52
  already, at least from someone who's cooked in New York City
• 9:55
  for me. Yeah.
• 9:58
  I want to go back a little bit because it's a great show and I
• 10:00
  can talk about like because now I'm a fan of the show.
• 10:02
  Oh, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:04
  I'm a fan of like, normally I'm like, I'm not going to watch any
• 10:06
  food shows like sucker shit, but this one I was like, oh shit,
• 10:09
  this. I think it's a legitimate.
• 10:10
  I liked it and I was willing to compete on it because I don't
• 10:13
  like food TV anymore. Yeah, I think like, it's changed
• 10:16
  so much since I grew up watching it.
• 10:18
  And I was like, oh, this is like pretty respectable.
• 10:20
  Like I actually like this show. Yeah, yeah, it's both.
• 10:23
  So like I, I became an instant fan.
• 10:27
  That's. Great.
• 10:27
  Same. Same like.
• 10:28
  I watch those like I'm an instant fan.
• 10:29
  This is cool. Yeah, I like it.
• 10:32
  I wouldn't, by the way. I would never do it.
• 10:34
  Like I said, like man tell. Me why?
• 10:36
  Tell me why you so much. Respect because I wouldn't want
• 10:42
  to lose. I'm ultra competitive and if I
• 10:45
  think that that the cards are stacked against me to not let me
• 10:51
  be who I am, I'm not going to do it because at the end of the
• 10:54
  day, it's more important for me to deliver, to deliver it
• 10:57
  correctly than to deliver it on time.
• 11:00
  Yeah, Amen. Yeah, I feel you on that.
• 11:02
  You know what I mean? Like if they say you got 3
• 11:04
  minutes, you got 3 minutes. Like, I'm not going to serve it
• 11:06
  to you. You know what I mean?
• 11:08
  Like, I'm sorry. I'd rather, I'd rather get
• 11:10
  kicked off the show. And because if I get kicked off
• 11:12
  the show because I didn't serve it on time, it's like, oh, you
• 11:15
  got kicked off the show. So it's like, I don't know if
• 11:17
  I'm willing to risk that. I feel you.
• 11:19
  That that that's just me. Yeah.
• 11:21
  That's interesting. Yeah, that's funny I think too.
• 11:24
  Yep, I think that's a part of the competition that's.
• 11:26
  But by the way, I would love to judge one.
• 11:28
  Amen. Judging.
• 11:29
  Seems Gordon Ramsay, if you're listening.
• 11:31
  Yeah, Gordon. Like I'd like I would be an
• 11:33
  excellent judge. But.
• 11:35
  But contestant I'm and I got a bad back, like my knees are kind
• 11:38
  of. Fucked up like.
• 11:38
  Like like like I'm. Start that I'm not.
• 11:40
  I'm like, there's no way that Beatrice, the 18 year old girl,
• 11:44
  yeah, she's gonna help hustle me.
• 11:45
  Like like if I drop something like.
• 11:48
  Oh my God, she she's such a little force of nature, that
• 11:51
  girl. So my our very our last, like
• 11:55
  the third cook in auditions. We had to work next to each
• 11:58
  other and I was like, I hate you because she's like culinary
• 12:02
  school kid and like doesn't know how to keep her station clean.
• 12:04
  It's like, you know, when you first start cooking and it's
• 12:06
  disgusting. And I was like, if you don't get
• 12:09
  your shit together, get off my station.
• 12:10
  Like I wanted to start actually sabotaging her on.
• 12:13
  I love you Beatrice, don't be mad.
• 12:15
  But I wanted to start sabotaging her because I was like, you are
• 12:17
  giving me anxiety bitch. Like clean.
• 12:19
  OK, Like this isn't it? But.
• 12:21
  Clean as you go. Basics exactly.
• 12:23
  But she now she was like chef, don't worry, I'm so different
• 12:25
  because now she's like in a kitchen in New York and she's
• 12:28
  doing great and she's just great.
• 12:29
  I love that girl, but yeah, she was a force of nature.
• 12:31
  She like moves super fast so confident like I love her.
• 12:35
  So going let me go back to what I was going to say is how do you
• 12:38
  get on a show like that? Like for people that are
• 12:40
  listening, how? How does one apply to get on a
• 12:43
  show like that and what does the process look like?
• 12:46
  OK, so they what you can share, right.
• 12:47
  So they have and I think they had there's like some
• 12:51
  application. I don't remember how I got
• 12:53
  started to get on this show like.
• 12:55
  A casting call that goes out and gets forwarded to you or.
• 12:57
  Something I think so they do put up casting because now I follow
• 12:59
  like the casting directors that like got us and I they do put it
• 13:04
  up on their Instagram or whatever.
• 13:05
  I saw season 1 of I saw season 1 of the show and I think I asked
• 13:10
  back then so like almost four years ago, three years ago and
• 13:14
  they hit me up like 2023 like so two or three years later like,
• 13:19
  hey, do you still want to compete?
• 13:20
  And I was like, why not let's do it that's it so I like all I did
• 13:24
  was apply essentially and then they reached out to me a few
• 13:29
  years later and then nothing. He was like, tell me your story
• 13:32
  and I told him about myself and like they found certain things
• 13:36
  cool. The fact that I'm, you know,
• 13:38
  Jordanian, Palestinian and Christian, for example, like
• 13:41
  most are not like most people from the Middle East are Muslim.
• 13:44
  So that was a big thing. The fact that I don't drink,
• 13:46
  smoke, party or anything like that was like outrageous for
• 13:49
  them. Like they just found me to be
• 13:50
  like such a gem almost. And I think the fact that I
• 13:53
  cooked in fine dining was big for them because most people who
• 13:56
  cook in like higher level kitchens or whatever, they don't
• 13:59
  do these competitions. You know what I mean?
• 14:00
  We don't do these things. And even me, I hesitated a lot
• 14:03
  to do it because I was, I've been taught not to do this kind
• 14:06
  of stuff. Like, this is cheesy this.
• 14:07
  Yeah. But yeah, like, you know, you're
• 14:08
  taught not to. You're taught really not to.
• 14:10
  Like, TV is not a good thing. Social media is at least back
• 14:13
  then in in those kitchens. So I was like struggling.
• 14:17
  Yeah. So I was struggling to like, do
• 14:19
  I really want to do this? Should I do this?
• 14:20
  Not because I was scared to compete more because like I've
• 14:23
  been taught not to do like go on TV.
• 14:26
  Not like those are not real chefs.
• 14:27
  Those are blah, blah, blah. But anyway, So Long story short,
• 14:30
  they were excited that, you know, I cooked in really
• 14:33
  incredible kitchens that I am Middle Eastern most most of the
• 14:37
  like down or whatever that come on the show.
• 14:39
  They're like Indian or from Pakistan.
• 14:41
  There's not generally females to start from the Levantine region
• 14:46
  of the Middle East, also Christian.
• 14:48
  So they got it kind of like excited about that.
• 14:50
  I think they're looking for like I, I watched like Gordon
• 14:54
  Ramsay's food stars like recently.
• 14:56
  I don't really watch TV, but I, I just wanted to understand also
• 14:59
  food TV in general, because I think it's like, if you like,
• 15:03
  you need social media, you interviewed Josh recently.
• 15:06
  Like he was on it and he, I listened to his podcast and I
• 15:08
  was like, damn, he's so right. And not like this.
• 15:10
  The new wave is Instagram and YouTube and whatever else.
• 15:15
  And I just wanted to see these, these things that are streaming
• 15:17
  on Hulu or Fox. What does that look like?
• 15:19
  And it to me that the characters are always somewhat similar.
• 15:23
  They're always the same. You need your villain, you need
• 15:25
  your hero, you need this at the other.
• 15:27
  And it's hard to pick people who have like a different story,
• 15:31
  right? It's generally the same.
• 15:32
  And after a while, it's almost, it almost becomes predictable,
• 15:35
  correct. It almost becomes, I'll tell you
• 15:37
  a story. And I don't mean to cut you off.
• 15:38
  No, I'll share this with you. I won't say which show, but I
• 15:41
  was judging auditions for ATV show, reality TV show.
• 15:45
  So I was, I was the chef judge. And so we had like a line out
• 15:50
  the door, a lot of home cooks, professional chefs, and they
• 15:53
  were coming, you know, they had like they had to bring their
• 15:54
  dish and we had to try it. We had a like a score sheet,
• 15:57
  whatever. But the main casting producer
• 16:00
  came and spoke to me and this other chef at the time and said
• 16:04
  like make notes on the food but if their food sucks but they got
• 16:08
  great personality, call me. Yep.
• 16:10
  Like, and I was like, really? And they're like, yeah, yeah, if
• 16:12
  the food sucks, like, who cares? But like, if they're colorful
• 16:15
  and Danny, like, go get me so I could interview them, like put
• 16:18
  them through. I was like, all right.
• 16:19
  But I thought that was really interesting because there is an
• 16:22
  entertainment task like like, let's, let's be real, let's
• 16:25
  let's, what's your mind before it's entertainment?
• 16:28
  Exactly. Right.
• 16:29
  It's entertainment. So I would say like my
• 16:31
  personality, which I'm trying to stay calm and collected on this
• 16:33
  podcast right now. Thank you.
• 16:34
  Yeah. It's a, it's a, It's a PG family
• 16:36
  show. No, but Justin like so I think
• 16:39
  the fact that I'm like loud, I'm in your face.
• 16:41
  I'm very like to be honest with you.
• 16:42
  In my opinion, I'm a very typical female in the kitchen.
• 16:45
  Like I don't most of the girls I've ever cooked with which I
• 16:49
  didn't. There were not a lot of girls on
• 16:51
  the savory side of in the kitchen while I was cooking.
• 16:53
  They were mostly in pastry, but they're all like this.
• 16:56
  If not, they were bigger B words than I am in my opinion.
• 16:59
  And so I'm just being myself. And I think they they enjoy
• 17:03
  that. They enjoy the like aggressive,
• 17:05
  like I tell you how it is. I'm also, I guess, very New York
• 17:09
  in that way where it's like we don't sugarcoat shit and if you
• 17:12
  don't like it, bye bye. Like too bad for you, you know.
• 17:14
  So I think like all of that was very attractive to them.
• 17:18
  If I could be completely honest, I was just very myself.
• 17:20
  And I don't know that there's a specific, specific recipe other
• 17:23
  than that. Like you do have to have a great
• 17:24
  personality. You do have to have something
• 17:27
  that's attractive to people. You do have to have some sort of
• 17:30
  story about you. Like mine is that my father
• 17:32
  didn't want me to cook, you know, at all.
• 17:34
  He was not. He did not approve of whatever I
• 17:37
  did. What do you want you to do?
• 17:39
  Be a lawyer, be a doctor, be anything but a chef.
• 17:41
  Like it was low class back then. It was for the uneducated back
• 17:44
  then. Like I've wanted to do this
• 17:45
  since I was 7, like say, or since I was a child, you know,
• 17:48
  so you know, he he did not approve whatsoever.
• 17:52
  And like right before he passed away, he gave me his approval.
• 17:55
  And I, I think that those were like small things to them that
• 17:58
  unfortunately that's not how they tell my story.
• 18:01
  They just kind of let me be this aggressive, like B word on the
• 18:04
  show. But I think all of that is what
• 18:07
  like wanted them to like put me. If you had to give someone
• 18:10
  advice that was going on to that show, that show or a similar
• 18:16
  type show, what advice would you give them?
• 18:17
  Because because I'm, I'm certain that it's extremely difficult.
• 18:22
  Like like it's, it's almost designed like I've had a lot of
• 18:25
  friends that have, you know, one shows and been on shows and, and
• 18:28
  I've, I've been involved with the chef community for a long
• 18:30
  time. So I understand what
• 18:32
  competitions like, but I also understand like there's, there's
• 18:35
  an aspect of it to make you not look great.
• 18:39
  And it's it's more difficult than it looks to the home
• 18:42
  audience. Like, oh, I would just do this
• 18:43
  like for my couch. I'm like, oh, they're so dumb.
• 18:45
  Why did they do this? Me to myself right now.
• 18:47
  I'm like, are you kidding me? Why didn't we?
• 18:49
  And I? But I can remember what I was
• 18:51
  thinking in that moment. Like, trust me, I know.
• 18:53
  So if you had to give someone advice, you know a future chef
• 18:56
  contestant, if they wanted to get on the show, what would you
• 18:59
  tell them? Like how do I get noticed to get
• 19:01
  picked number one and then 2 when I'm on the show?
• 19:03
  How do I win? OK, that's those are great
• 19:05
  questions. I would say, how do I get
• 19:07
  noticed? First of all, I mean, the
• 19:10
  noticing part is like, I feel I, I was about to say like, oh, I
• 19:15
  don't feel like there's an exact science, but there is.
• 19:17
  They're like they're looking for specific characters.
• 19:20
  You really want me to tell you how I imagine me?
• 19:23
  I feel like I got you. Can't pretend you're the casting
• 19:25
  producer. What would you look for?
• 19:27
  Someone who has a great personality, someone who's
• 19:29
  confident for sure. Someone who knows food
• 19:32
  understands food and then they ask you for like pictures of
• 19:37
  your food. They they want your references
• 19:40
  as well. So like you got to make, you do
• 19:42
  have to have talent, like you have to be good at what you do
• 19:45
  in order to get there. So practicing is a big one.
• 19:48
  So understanding food, having a great personality is really key
• 19:52
  for TV. What?
• 19:53
  But what's a great personality for TV?
• 19:55
  Because TV also builds villains, right?
• 19:57
  So a great personality for TV could also be a good villain.
• 20:00
  Right. Yeah, because we all know, like,
• 20:03
  no secret that Iman became the villain.
• 20:05
  I didn't think they were going to do that, by the way.
• 20:06
  I really thought that since my story is very, like, based on
• 20:09
  persevering and like, never giving up, and you always have
• 20:12
  one more round. Like that's my vibe.
• 20:14
  Yeah, first episode, you kick some dude off the station.
• 20:16
  Yeah, this is my station. That's normal.
• 20:19
  New York City, bro, that's that's what it is.
• 20:21
  It's like I called the station homeboy, like get out like so
• 20:24
  I've Oh my God. Anyway, yeah, they whatever, but
• 20:28
  that's what it is. Anyway, apart from that, like
• 20:32
  the for me, my, my story that I was hoping they would tell is
• 20:35
  like never giving up. That's what's more like most
• 20:37
  important. Can I interrupt?
• 20:38
  You know how it is when you kick someone off a station though.
• 20:40
  What? Do you mean?
• 20:42
  It's not get off my station in a in a in a kitchen, you just.
• 20:45
  Move their shit. You just move them.
• 20:47
  But there was nothing there. No, no, like, like you, you've
• 20:50
  been, you've been on Chef station.
• 20:52
  Chef just walks up, hits you in the hip.
• 20:53
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get off.
• 20:54
  Doesn't even say anything like you know, it's, it's get off my
• 20:57
  station, correct? Right.
• 20:58
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 20:59
  So anyway, yeah. So I would try to say it nicely.
• 21:01
  I was like, love, you mean it. Bye.
• 21:03
  Like, I don't know how else to tell you.
• 21:04
  Get the fuck off. Like you're bad for not hearing
• 21:07
  me say I call anyway. Anyhow, I would say so like I
• 21:11
  would say they need, they need several people.
• 21:14
  They need the person who is combative.
• 21:15
  That clearly is me, that the person who's like aggressive in
• 21:19
  your face. They want that because it makes
• 21:21
  for good TV. They, they also want the person
• 21:24
  who's very sweet, who's like, that's going to win you over
• 21:27
  because they're like. You know, part of.
• 21:28
  Gold exactly the girl next door, that's who won last season,
• 21:31
  right? Like she's amazing and actually
• 21:33
  she won me over. Like I watched her and was like,
• 21:35
  God, I hope you win. So like they need the person
• 21:37
  who's going to like, she's just like sweet and humble and
• 21:40
  talented. They also need the like story
• 21:43
  like where you overcame adversity, where you know what I
• 21:45
  mean? We're like, which honestly,
• 21:47
  every human being at some point has something that they've gone
• 21:50
  through and and overcut overcame.
• 21:52
  So like, so I think, you know, I'd say to me, those are the top
• 21:57
  three in my mind that I know always stick out and and go for
• 22:00
  in in any TV show, like the person who's the villain, the
• 22:03
  person who's like the heart of gold and wins you over, and then
• 22:05
  the person whose story you're attracted to because they're the
• 22:08
  hero, like the comeback queen or king.
• 22:11
  In my opinion, those are. I'll share a story with you,
• 22:13
  just it's relevant to standing out.
• 22:17
  I don't know if I've ever shared this on this podcast.
• 22:19
  So for people that are religious listeners, if I've shared it,
• 22:22
  sorry, but years ago, this was maybe 2020, right?
• 22:27
  Maybe 2020-2021. I was on on.
• 22:32
  I was a finalist for ATV show, but it was it wasn't a it wasn't
• 22:37
  a reality show. It was like a travel hosting
• 22:39
  show, like a, like a. It would be my own show where I
• 22:43
  would be the host. Love that, right?
• 22:45
  That's what I would love to do next.
• 22:46
  Keep going. And so I was on the short list
• 22:49
  and, and by the way, I have no idea what show it was because
• 22:52
  they wouldn't tell me. It's like, we can't tell you the
• 22:54
  name of the show, but I was like one of the last five people that
• 22:56
  that were, they were looking at. And so they're interviewing me
• 23:00
  and like, I didn't know what to do.
• 23:01
  It was like, this is my first time.
• 23:02
  Like it kind of popped out of nowhere.
• 23:03
  They reached out to me. They're like, Hey, we found you.
• 23:05
  We want to talk to you. We think you'd be a great fit.
• 23:07
  So I'm like doing the Zoom interview because it's like
• 23:09
  2020, I think everyone was on Zoom, right?
• 23:11
  20/20/21 And I was like, fuck, what do I do?
• 23:14
  So I was like, I'm gonna play up the character.
• 23:15
  So I got my big cigar. I got my fucking whiskey.
• 23:18
  I dressed up with my fucking James Bond suit, you know?
• 23:22
  So I was like trying to play up the character and, and, and they
• 23:25
  were asking me a question like, so do you get mad in the
• 23:27
  kitchen? I was like, sometimes, but
• 23:29
  sometimes I'm not like I was like, I don't know what they
• 23:31
  want to hear. Like I was trying to play it up
• 23:32
  for them and I didn't know the right answer.
• 23:35
  And I like, I didn't, I wasn't prepared.
• 23:37
  But anyway, I asked the producer because it was two people.
• 23:41
  It was like the casting producer and their boss.
• 23:44
  And I was like, can I ask you like, we're about to end the
• 23:46
  call. It's like, why me?
• 23:47
  Like, why am I on this shortlist?
• 23:48
  Like, can you help me understand that?
• 23:50
  And they said, yes, we'll tell you why.
• 23:52
  And so this is like a a lesson for people that are listening,
• 23:55
  they said, because when we scroll on social media and we're
• 23:58
  trying to find who the next star is and all chefs post food, post
• 24:03
  food, post food, post food. And they said, and we follow
• 24:05
  you. And this is before I start
• 24:06
  chef's PSA. So this is not chef's PSA,
• 24:08
  Andre. This is when I was still a chef.
• 24:11
  Like when we follow you, it's like there's some food, but
• 24:13
  there's like a you smoking a cigar and drinking a whiskey
• 24:17
  and, you know, talking shit and making jokes and posting funny
• 24:20
  memes. And it's like it's different.
• 24:23
  It's not like everyone else, like all these other chefs that
• 24:26
  are kind of at your level, they just post the food, but no
• 24:28
  personality. And you're like all personality
• 24:30
  with a little bit of food. And that's why we noticed you.
• 24:32
  But like that's kind of your generation to like you guys
• 24:36
  aren't allowed to have personality back then.
• 24:39
  Like, let's be honest. Yeah, true.
• 24:40
  Phones were not allowed in the kitchen ever while I was in
• 24:42
  there. And I'm after you, right?
• 24:44
  Yeah, Yeah. So you're not allowed Like it's
• 24:46
  it was, it was like frowned upon to look for attention socially
• 24:51
  as a chef outside of your food. You were not allowed to be
• 24:55
  someone outside of your food in your generation, right.
• 24:58
  So the fact that you that in my opinion, that's what why it was.
• 25:01
  Against the ground, it was against the social.
• 25:03
  Norm correct, where now if you don't have a personality, you're
• 25:06
  going to get fucking swallowed. You won't.
• 25:07
  You're not going to make it right.
• 25:09
  So like that's probably why I would say for me now, like
• 25:13
  hearing your story, the right answer for them would have been
• 25:16
  the truth in that. Like when you are genuinely
• 25:19
  yourself, people pick that up and they eat that up.
• 25:21
  I'm going to tell you something. So like I was not like ever and
• 25:26
  by the. Way as you figured out, I didn't
• 25:27
  get the show. OK, I didn't get the show.
• 25:29
  What? Show was, it probably didn't
• 25:31
  come into it. Probably got cancelled after one
• 25:34
  season hopefully. The TV is so different now.
• 25:36
  I would say this is what I and I'm really grateful to like get
• 25:41
  these compliments. Most people I would say, are
• 25:44
  attracted or love me because I'm very genuine and I'm very I
• 25:46
  don't know how else to be or who else to be but myself.
• 25:50
  Right in so much so like I've I've never flown first class,
• 25:54
  let's say, until this past, like until this past year, like I
• 25:58
  wasn't, you know, I wasn't well off financially whatsoever.
• 26:01
  Like cooking in in New York City.
• 26:02
  You're not making fucking money to fly first class ever.
• 26:05
  You're lucky if you afford basic for the record, right?
• 26:08
  So that group of people who flies like, you know, there was
• 26:12
  someone who worked for the United Nations that I got to
• 26:14
  meet someone who worked at the World Bank, like those kinds of
• 26:16
  things. And I am so, so incredibly, she
• 26:20
  like got her PhD at Oxford, this girl that I was sitting next to
• 26:22
  on my way to France. And like the, she was so hurt
• 26:26
  one way when we first started talking and I was so myself, the
• 26:30
  whole conversation that she, she became more towards my character
• 26:34
  than her own. And that like you drop people in
• 26:37
  when you're just yourself. And I think the casting
• 26:39
  directors and producers, they enjoy that because that like
• 26:42
  it's contagious and everyone in the world actually, because I
• 26:46
  feel like people put, especially now with social media, everybody
• 26:49
  puts on, everybody puts on who who they believe will be
• 26:52
  accepted or who's liked or cool or whatever it may be.
• 26:56
  So when you get to just be yourself, that's today's version
• 26:58
  of going against the grain, in my opinion.
• 27:00
  Yes. And like, that's what's
• 27:01
  attractive. So if you're in the interview
• 27:03
  phase, that's what this guy, he's like, it's my job to sell
• 27:07
  you. I want you to make it onto the
• 27:08
  show. You have no idea how many
• 27:10
  people. You have no idea how many people
• 27:13
  even apply for the show. He's like, I just want you to be
• 27:15
  yourself. Well, that's a big reason why I
• 27:17
  wanted to do this podcast with chefs is because I wanted people
• 27:20
  to be able to listen to conversations with great chefs,
• 27:23
  but I also wanted people to see like, there's not a lot of
• 27:27
  difference between you and this other person.
• 27:30
  Like we've got a lot more in common than people.
• 27:31
  Think. Like, like we're, we're, we're
• 27:33
  people first before we're chefs. Like we, before I was ever a
• 27:36
  chef, I was a human being. Amen.
• 27:38
  You know, with problems and, you know, life stories and stuff
• 27:41
  like that. And I don't, and I, and I think
• 27:43
  sometimes chefs get pigeon holed into this in into really 2
• 27:47
  categories of like, oh, the toxic chef or, you know,
• 27:48
  whatever, right? And the.
• 27:50
  Toxic one but. But but it's like there's
• 27:54
  there's so much more than like just labeling chefs like when
• 27:58
  you start talking to them, like after an hour, this podcast is
• 28:01
  usually only an hour, but after an hour people leave.
• 28:04
  Like, wow, like I had that same feeling, you know, people start
• 28:07
  to understand. So that's why I'm glad I have
• 28:09
  you on. It's like, thank you.
• 28:10
  Let's let's let's make sure, you know, I I know they're painting
• 28:12
  you like in the villain arc right now, but it's great.
• 28:15
  By the way, I have a prediction. OK, uh oh.
• 28:17
  Yeah, like, by the way, since I'm loving the show, it's like,
• 28:19
  and I I've made a lot of predictions that have come true.
• 28:23
  I'll share it too. I called out Central would be
• 28:27
  the number one restaurant before anyone that's here, right?
• 28:31
  No, no. Central and Peru.
• 28:32
  Okay, okay. Well, thank you.
• 28:33
  Best, right? Someone asked me what's gonna
• 28:35
  hit number one. I was like, if you're paying
• 28:37
  attention, it'll probably be central and, and the only reason
• 28:40
  I said that is because like you could see the setup for weeks
• 28:42
  before that they were setting it up.
• 28:44
  Who? Well, it's 50.
• 28:46
  You know, they were, they were setting it up, You know what I
• 28:48
  mean? Like I've been in the game long
• 28:49
  enough, like I could recognize where this is going.
• 28:52
  You know what I mean? Because they don't just surprise
• 28:53
  you like oh, so and so one. It's like, oh, they got to, they
• 28:56
  got to sell you on it months in advance.
• 28:57
  Right, right, right. So if I'm watching the show, I
• 29:00
  have a prediction like I don't know who's going to win.
• 29:02
  And I know you can't tell me, right?
• 29:03
  But I I have like a top five of who I think might win.
• 29:07
  OK, you can, you can share, but I'm gonna look away like.
• 29:11
  No, no, I just, I just like breathe if I'm right.
• 29:14
  No, I'm just kidding. Breathe.
• 29:17
  So, so I think you first and foremost right, Michelin
• 29:22
  pedigree, talented hustle in the kitchen.
• 29:25
  You're getting camera time at least in the 1st 4 episodes.
• 29:28
  They're painting you a certain way.
• 29:29
  Maybe I know we're only four. Maybe it'll change and like
• 29:32
  they'll start teleport or I don't know, but I it's like
• 29:36
  you're getting you're getting FaceTime, right, right.
• 29:38
  So it's like OK, potential. What's what's the 18 year old
• 29:43
  girl's name? Beatrice.
• 29:44
  Beatrice. I also think her.
• 29:46
  I don't think she's going to win though, but I do think she'll
• 29:48
  make it close to the end. Why do you say that?
• 29:50
  Why do you say you don't think she's going to win?
• 29:52
  I don't know her and I've only seen her cook on a show, but I
• 29:56
  know she's not going to beat you when she's 18.
• 30:00
  Like, I'm also a chef. Like I get it.
• 30:03
  Like, you know what I mean? Like I I get it.
• 30:06
  She's probably good. She's going to be a great chef
• 30:08
  one day. She's a superstar in the making.
• 30:09
  Right, right. But I know at 18 you're not
• 30:15
  going to beat someone that's been cooking in Michelin star
• 30:17
  kitchens for years. Like I like, let's be honest,
• 30:20
  like like let's you. It's just common.
• 30:22
  Sense. Right, Right, Right.
• 30:23
  Right, but I do think she's a superstar, so I think she'll
• 30:25
  make it close to the end. Again, this is just my
• 30:27
  prediction. I keep going.
• 30:28
  Could be wrong. Austin, I I think he's great.
• 30:34
  You know, he's he's he's fiery. He's a he's a chef, he's a cook.
• 30:36
  He's a he's getting camera time too.
• 30:40
  Who's the other guy that I was saying?
• 30:41
  Nick. Nick.
• 30:43
  Baby Tom Cruise. Nick also I, I, I, I got respect
• 30:47
  for him. I think what he's doing is
• 30:48
  great. So I think and then Bobby and by
• 30:53
  the way, Bobby, I OK, based on all of that, those are my top
• 30:58
  five in the show. If I had a top two who I think
• 31:01
  will like, like now we're in Vegas and I have to put money,
• 31:04
  I'm going. To look.
• 31:05
  Away. I'll tell you who.
• 31:06
  It's either on you or Bobby. Based on what I've seen, just my
• 31:09
  chef instincts of of knowing the industry, that's where my money
• 31:13
  is. It's either going to be you or
• 31:14
  Bobby. You know what's cool about you
• 31:17
  calling out Bobby? I like not only is he really
• 31:19
  talented as a cook, he he has beautiful morals as a person.
• 31:24
  You'll see them unfolding the show and like he's just
• 31:27
  genuinely a great person and I think Fox chose him as the
• 31:32
  sweetheart of, I think they chose him as the heart of the
• 31:35
  show. The reason I think him, yeah,
• 31:38
  for a couple of reasons. So huge balls to him.
• 31:42
  Parisian Yoki was like making his own ricotta with 20 minutes.
• 31:47
  Yeah, like it's like that. Like you, you cannot not be good
• 31:52
  and pull that off like a period. I know professional chefs that
• 31:55
  wouldn't pull that off. So the fact that he did that, I
• 31:58
  was like, OK. Homeboy made ricotta from
• 32:00
  scratch. I'm like, let's go, Bobby, OK?
• 32:02
  Ricotta from scratch and Parisian gnocchi in 20 minutes
• 32:04
  and I'm like OK, mad respect. Yep.
• 32:07
  Then he what did he do? Like a maybe he did like a a
• 32:09
  chicken Schnitzel or something on another episode.
• 32:12
  I thought it was pretty good. Oh, he made Schpetzel.
• 32:15
  Uh huh. He made special from scratch
• 32:17
  with 20 minutes. And I'm like, OK, I used to have
• 32:20
  special on the menu. I used to have to make special.
• 32:22
  Yeah. Like if you told me to make
• 32:24
  special from scratch for 20 minutes, I'd probably screw it
• 32:26
  up. Yeah.
• 32:27
  And I had it on my menu like I did it for years.
• 32:29
  Yeah. You know, I mean, the fact.
• 32:30
  No, you. Wouldn't you keep saying that?
• 32:31
  No, No. But that's the point I'm trying
• 32:33
  to make. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:34
  It's like is I'm a professional with 27 years in the kitchen.
• 32:38
  He's not a professional chef from what I understand.
• 32:41
  Yeah, Bobby, he doesn't believe that you haven't had
• 32:43
  professional training, by the way, huh?
• 32:44
  I said. I'm telling Bobby right now that
• 32:46
  you don't believe. He I, I, I, I don't, I, I like
• 32:49
  there's something missing here. Like Bobby, why are your skills
• 32:52
  so high? Tell us like, because I saw a
• 32:54
  video saw and I'm following him on on social media.
• 32:58
  And so he's making something and he's brewing wine onion, right?
• 33:03
  And you know this because you've worked in these types of
• 33:05
  kitchens, the way he's brewing wine, only a trained eye would
• 33:09
  notice that he's doing the technique that you expect from
• 33:12
  like high end Michelin star restaurants.
• 33:15
  And it's getting lost on everyone.
• 33:16
  But the fact that he's doing, he's not even calling it out,
• 33:18
  he's just doing it. And I'm like, okay Bobby, what
• 33:22
  the fuck, man? But it could be because his his
• 33:24
  garnish. His garnish cuz he he worked in
• 33:27
  bars in New York City. They don't garnish with perfect
• 33:30
  Brunois. I mean fair, but like he's also
• 33:32
  like like that. I mean, I, I agree with you.
• 33:35
  I think you're I think you're not telling us something.
• 33:37
  No, but. He's like a CIA.
• 33:38
  What's? Yeah, but yeah, but I, I, but
• 33:41
  he's also really like that. He's one of those that like, he
• 33:44
  just like desperately wants to be great.
• 33:46
  You, you can like, that's just him.
• 33:48
  And yeah, like, he just, like, desperately wants to be great,
• 33:52
  it feels like. Yeah, so, so my prediction, I
• 33:55
  don't know. And, and if I'm wrong, it'll
• 33:57
  I'll come back and I'll say like, oh, I guess I was wrong.
• 34:00
  You 2 are in the final. That's what I think.
• 34:01
  That's that's what I think. And I and I think or, and if I'm
• 34:05
  wrong there, it's one of the five that I mentioned.
• 34:08
  That's what I think. I think.
• 34:10
  Beatrice is a superstar in the making by.
• 34:11
  The way she is, she is my favorite.
• 34:13
  She's probably there's like a handful of people that I really
• 34:16
  love that I got to meet. All of them are great people, so
• 34:19
  cool. Like really glad that we all got
• 34:21
  to connect. She's one of my most favorite
• 34:23
  people. She's so dope.
• 34:24
  She reminds me of myself when I started.
• 34:26
  I love her. She is so cool and she has the
• 34:29
  like exact right mindset of anyone who wants to be
• 34:33
  successful and like right now as like everyone's getting a lot of
• 34:35
  attention. She's one of the people getting
• 34:37
  a lot of attention. She's like, I just want to cook.
• 34:39
  Like I don't, I don't care for all of that.
• 34:41
  And she's like, no, I don't want like, I can't do a pop up.
• 34:44
  Like I have work, you know, like, and she just cares so much
• 34:46
  about the craft and being a good chef and a real chef.
• 34:50
  And like, that makes my heart very happy.
• 34:52
  We're like, look, this is a very big opportunity.
• 34:54
  You're on Fox and then you stream on Hulu forever until
• 34:57
  that show comes off, right? So like you're getting airtime,
• 34:59
  you have social media. And she's like, I just want to
• 35:02
  be a good chef. And I think that that is so
• 35:03
  especially at 18 in the world that we live in right now, that
• 35:07
  she doesn't care so much about the attention.
• 35:09
  She's just like wanting to love that, like be good at her craft.
• 35:12
  She's incredible to me. I love that girl.
• 35:15
  Really, there's so much that I want to talk to you about it.
• 35:17
  I'm like, damn it, we, we like, I could talk about this show for
• 35:20
  a while. Like I'm, I'm hooked.
• 35:22
  I can't wait for Episode 5. Every time the next one comes
• 35:26
  I'm like fuck please stop. It's hard to watch yourself.
• 35:28
  But but you also have a cookie business now I do so.
• 35:31
  So tell us about that and how how'd that start?
• 35:34
  Luxury. Custom cookies, it's called
• 35:35
  better than your mother's, it started.
• 35:37
  Jorge Mazzvidal was promoting it, yeah.
• 35:40
  Okay, wow, so there's a lot about that, all right.
• 35:42
  So even DJ Khaled? Yeah.
• 35:44
  Yeah the rock, Cardi B, there's a lot of people that have had my
• 35:48
  cookies, DJ Khaled, Nikki Jam, a lot of people it's pretty cool
• 35:51
  so okay, better than your mother's.
• 35:53
  It was started here's the fun facts for you started off as a
• 35:58
  cooking show. Actually, I wanted to have a
• 36:01
  cooking show where I teach you how to make whatever better than
• 36:03
  your mother's OK. Like I kind of like what Josh
• 36:05
  does like in that like he teaches you the the trade
• 36:08
  secrets that we we learn in restaurants Sure.
• 36:10
  And elevates your your cooking so.
• 36:13
  His butt better. Right.
• 36:14
  Well, way better, Yeah. Right.
• 36:15
  Because you have the, like, fine dining techniques or whatever it
• 36:17
  might be. So that's essentially like how
• 36:20
  this brand started. Better than your mother's,
• 36:22
  Better than your mother. 'S did you ever start?
• 36:24
  Doing videos I did put like I'm just like you though how you
• 36:26
  were like if it's not perfect, I don't care if I have 3 minutes,
• 36:29
  I'm not giving it to you. Yeah.
• 36:30
  So like I did start someone came and shot like shows.
• 36:33
  I I hung out with like people who are really relevant at the
• 36:37
  time on YouTube and this that the other and I didn't like how
• 36:40
  it was edited and so I never put it out, which is why it's OK,
• 36:43
  OK. Maybe you'll do it now.
• 36:44
  But maybe we'll do it now, so whatever.
• 36:47
  So I it intend. I intended it as a cooking show.
• 36:49
  It started on Instagram Live. This is when Instagram Live just
• 36:52
  started. Like first was a feature on
• 36:54
  Instagram. First show was amazing, everyone
• 36:56
  loved it, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
• 36:58
  Did it for a little bit. Then I got upset because the
• 37:01
  edits weren't good. I didn't like the guy and
• 37:03
  whatever. So we didn't do it.
• 37:05
  It turned like one day Jonathan Beno was doing a benefit dinner
• 37:09
  for a charity called Cookies for Kids Cancer.
• 37:13
  And I was like, oh, I like. So I helped him with that dinner
• 37:16
  or whatever it is. And then I wanted to raise money
• 37:18
  for it. And I was like, OK, well, how
• 37:20
  can I do this? I can't do a big sale.
• 37:21
  I don't have kids like in a school somewhere.
• 37:23
  And I was like, you know what, I'm going to, I'm going to do it
• 37:25
  on YouTube where I like have a baking challenge again, my
• 37:28
  influencer friends so we can raise money for this charity.
• 37:31
  OK, So I ended up raising 5 grand for the charity.
• 37:34
  And in the interim people were like, yo, do you sell these
• 37:36
  cookies? And I was like, no.
• 37:37
  Did you bring me any cookies? Did what?
• 37:39
  Did you bring me any? I should have.
• 37:40
  Oh, my God. And I thought about it, but I
• 37:42
  did it. I'm sorry.
• 37:43
  How dare you? Yeah, I would have.
• 37:44
  I would have been needing them, right?
• 37:46
  Now I know. Shame on me man.
• 37:47
  I should have. OK, sorry about that.
• 37:49
  We we all ship you something. Please.
• 37:50
  Please. I love cookies.
• 37:52
  Really. Yeah.
• 37:52
  You know, while you're here in Austin, you should check out
• 37:54
  Cookie Rich. They're also great.
• 37:55
  My friend Lauren Peters, French Laundry alum, Done and done.
• 37:59
  Yeah, she's she has her cookie company.
• 38:01
  Also great luxury cookie brand but they're like, they look like
• 38:04
  macaroons but they're cookies. Oh, OK.
• 38:05
  Yeah. All right.
• 38:06
  Yeah. We'll go check it out.
• 38:07
  You should. So people were asking me like,
• 38:08
  yo, you know, do you sell them? And I was like, no, I don't want
• 38:11
  to get known for pastry. Like, I don't.
• 38:12
  That's not what I do. You know what I mean?
• 38:14
  But cookies were just, like, becoming the new thing back
• 38:17
  then. Also, this is like 2017.
• 38:19
  Call it 20/17/2018. Cookies were starting to become
• 38:22
  a thing, topped and stuffed and whatever else.
• 38:25
  So one of my like, first chefs ever is Adam Perry Ling.
• 38:28
  I don't know if you've heard of him.
• 38:29
  He's like. The BBQ, Yeah, he's.
• 38:31
  Like a king, he's. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 38:33
  yeah. He's great.
• 38:33
  And I was like, chef, you know, people are asking me to sell
• 38:35
  these, like via DM, like, I don't know, you know, I don't
• 38:38
  want to get known for this. And he's like, if you have an
• 38:40
  open door ticket, at that point, I had like 10,000 following me
• 38:43
  on Instagram from better than your mother's, like that page.
• 38:46
  And he was like, if you have an open door ticket, like don't be,
• 38:48
  don't be silly. He's like any mistakes you make,
• 38:51
  you'll learn from them. Just just go, yeah.
• 38:53
  Figure out as. You go.
• 38:54
  I just went. And like I was selling my
• 38:56
  cookies out of my apartment. Yeah, at like 80 bucks a box.
• 38:59
  And people were like worth every fucking penny.
• 39:01
  They were so good. Like I was using Valrona
• 39:03
  chocolate. What we wanted to get them right
• 39:04
  now, like where do they go get the cookies?
• 39:06
  But at btymcookies.com. And and how do they order them
• 39:10
  now? Like is it so like mix and
• 39:12
  match? Right now it's like a box of
• 39:14
  four or 6. It's the chef's tasting.
• 39:18
  So like things have evolved in the business since I started
• 39:21
  where before I was like super direct to consumer.
• 39:23
  I'm very focused just on that now.
• 39:25
  It's a little, I make it kind of easier for myself and not like
• 39:28
  it's a chef's tasting. I give you whatever seasonal,
• 39:30
  whatever is beautiful, whatever is like perfect at the time.
• 39:33
  There's no fuss about it. There's like, no, unfortunately
• 39:36
  this is messed up. But I don't, I don't cater to
• 39:38
  the allergens and all of that stuff.
• 39:39
  Right now. It doesn't make sense.
• 39:41
  So I'm putting out art. You can buy it or not, It's OK.
• 39:45
  I have yet, thank God, don't get complaints about it.
• 39:48
  OK, about it being that way. I do a lot of high volume
• 39:50
  business. So like exciting.
• 39:52
  I'm I'm like closing a deal with Madison Square Garden to yeah,
• 39:56
  to be in the VIP lounge for like their VIP clients and stuff like
• 40:00
  that. So that's really cool.
• 40:02
  And then like working on Yankee Stadium.
• 40:04
  That's that's like not close yet, but we're those are like
• 40:08
  I'm more towards that's kind of where I'm shifting to.
• 40:11
  I really want to do high volume just because I understand.
• 40:16
  The numbers now, right? So for for someone starting out
• 40:20
  their own business right now, like, what advice would you give
• 40:22
  them? Like don't make these mistakes.
• 40:24
  Don't make these mistakes. Oof, Don't.
• 40:26
  Do not try to do every single thing by yourself in the
• 40:30
  beginning. You have to and that's OK.
• 40:32
  But like I was a weirdo and was like, oh, if I don't do it all
• 40:35
  by myself, I'm not good enough. It was really fucking weird to
• 40:37
  like think like that. You need a team.
• 40:39
  You need someone who knows certain things better than you.
• 40:42
  Also, like try to try to have like don't like front of house
• 40:47
  or whatever it is like get the person who knows that like and
• 40:50
  and have them help you. That's first.
• 40:53
  What else? What else would I say?
• 40:55
  Because I wouldn't say like I can tell you the deuce versus
• 40:59
  more like better than the like don't.
• 41:01
  Tell tell me the Deuce, especially on the marketing
• 41:02
  side. And the reason I say that is
• 41:03
  because looking at your page, like I said, you have Jorge Mas
• 41:07
  with all your DJ Khaled, you have the rock like right.
• 41:09
  How do you, how important is that like to, to get noticed?
• 41:13
  Because like we were talking about the show, like you got to
• 41:16
  get noticed, right? But also with your business, you
• 41:18
  got to get noticed. Super.
• 41:19
  So I would say first of all, like having a really good
• 41:23
  product. One of my biggest fears was
• 41:25
  like, man, I'm, I'm, I'm asking for a lot of money for this box
• 41:28
  of cookies, right? Like I'm scared that people say
• 41:31
  that it's hyper. I'm scared that, you know, do
• 41:33
  not ever be smoking mirrors like you can, you can hype stuff up,
• 41:37
  but like this people are not stupid, you know what I mean?
• 41:39
  They're going to taste your product and if it's not good,
• 41:42
  you're going to your reputation is going to suck.
• 41:44
  And that's super important in any business.
• 41:46
  So like making sure that you put out the best, the best quality,
• 41:50
  everything, research, figure it out, go where the chefs go,
• 41:53
  especially if you're not like you're not classically trained.
• 41:56
  There's so much information on the freaking Internet right now.
• 41:59
  Go utilize that, figure it out, right, right.
• 42:02
  So putting out an incredible product that people want more
• 42:05
  than once, that's first start there.
• 42:07
  Like the bottom line is that you sell something good worth paying
• 42:10
  for. Next is the experience.
• 42:12
  So in fine dining it is all about the guests experience.
• 42:16
  You want them to feel like the most special person in the world
• 42:20
  from the second they enter your restaurant till the moment that
• 42:22
  they leave. 11 Madison Park will Google you Google every name on
• 42:27
  their reservation so that the Hostess greets you on your way
• 42:30
  in as if you were a VIP, Like you're somebody special.
• 42:33
  Those are things that I remember taking throughout my time in
• 42:37
  like in kitchens that I was like, I want to do that for
• 42:40
  people with a box of cookies. Packaging has always been
• 42:43
  badass, like beautiful, on point, super luxurious and like,
• 42:46
  like, so not only are you paying for the art of the cookies,
• 42:49
  like, but everyone knows a cookie doesn't cost.
• 42:52
  My cookies are expensive to make, for the record, especially
• 42:54
  now with inflation, OK, eggs, chocolate, the sugar that I, I
• 42:58
  import, like I import sugar. I'm not going to tell you from
• 43:01
  where, but like the sugar that I have like a lot of every like
• 43:05
  say. You import sugar.
• 43:06
  Yeah, or or I don't personally import it, but it is imported
• 43:10
  from like special Cisco. Well, that's Cisco, but yeah,
• 43:14
  I've never used them as a vendor ever.
• 43:16
  But like from very special parts of the world are, are where I, I
• 43:19
  like here are my ingredients, you know, So I would say that
• 43:23
  like, just not just the, the quality of the cookie because
• 43:27
  there's the market is the market on cookies, right?
• 43:29
  Like, no one's really charging more than 8 bucks.
• 43:31
  Maybe, maybe. And that's a lot for a cookie.
• 43:33
  So like, then what? What else justifies the cost?
• 43:36
  Packaging was always on point. And then, yeah, like when a
• 43:39
  celebrity endorses you, you got to think about this.
• 43:41
  DJ Khaled, for example, is one my my biggest one was Nicky Jam
• 43:45
  for me. But let's say DJ Khaled, for
• 43:47
  example, who has been around the entire world, is a
• 43:50
  multimillionaire, has eaten wherever loves food and it has
• 43:54
  remembers my brand like he. So I gave it to him first and
• 43:58
  like I met him. I told him I'm Palestinian as
• 44:00
  well, whatever it was. And then someone else, another
• 44:03
  like star gifted it to him. And he's like, wait, this is my
• 44:06
  people, right? Like he recognized the brand and
• 44:09
  like knew where it was from. Why?
• 44:10
  Because it was an impact to him. He's like, Oh my God, I love
• 44:13
  these cookies, right? And so it's like I lost my trade
• 44:20
  of thought. I'm sorry.
• 44:21
  So essentially it's like making something incredible.
• 44:24
  Like he was like, I remember when I first brought it to him
• 44:26
  and he's like, wow. And look at the presentation.
• 44:28
  What? And then he tried it and was
• 44:29
  like, whoa, like, and it left an impression on him.
• 44:33
  And it actually has left an impression on everyone.
• 44:35
  The reason I say Nicky Jam was a big one for me was because
• 44:38
  before I ever even got a branded box, it was what I used to do
• 44:43
  was get really beautiful boxes from the the Container Store and
• 44:47
  I would get really great tissue paper and I would like make it
• 44:49
  this whole experience. And he was like, oh, shit, like
• 44:52
  and like, wow. And then tasted and was like,
• 44:55
  yeah, mom, it's better than you're sorry, you know, And it
• 44:57
  was like before I even had a like a luxurious big box.
• 45:01
  It was so impressive. And just because the the product
• 45:04
  itself was so good, go ahead, Sorry.
• 45:06
  No, no, it's I'm embarrassed. I don't know who Nicky Jam is.
• 45:10
  Nicky Jam is like, so he's a huge reggaeton star.
• 45:14
  He also got like he was in Bad Boys, the latest Bad Boys movie.
• 45:18
  Oh my God. He's like huge.
• 45:20
  He's like one of the godfathers of reggaeton.
• 45:22
  OK, Sorry, sorry. That's OK.
• 45:23
  Shout out to Nicky Jam. I want to also ask you, you
• 45:30
  know, a lot, a lot of young cooks, chefs, culinary students
• 45:33
  listen to this podcast seeking guidance.
• 45:36
  You started your career correct, CIA, New York City big leagues.
• 45:41
  So if you could go back in time and, and you were giving advice
• 45:45
  to someone that wants to follow your footsteps and work in some
• 45:47
  of the best kitchens in New York, what are some things that
• 45:50
  they need to do to prepare to go into those kitchens?
• 45:52
  And what are some of the unspoken rules that we know but
• 45:56
  that people don't talk about and that that culinary school
• 45:58
  doesn't teach you before you go into some of these kitchens that
• 46:01
  people should know? That's a great question.
• 46:04
  So did you start at Danielle? Is that where you went right out
• 46:06
  of school? Right out of school I started at
• 46:08
  Barba Lud. OK, but actually Barba Lud was
• 46:10
  my internship and then I went to PCE.
• 46:12
  Who's the chef at Barba Lud when you were?
• 46:13
  There, his name is Damien Cincinnati.
• 46:15
  Travis Wickard was there? No.
• 46:16
  Yeah, he was at Balut Suit. That's right.
• 46:18
  That's my boy. Shout out Chef Travis.
• 46:20
  Yeah, OK. So I would say, OK, this is
• 46:25
  actually great. So I'm like AI was a Miami girl,
• 46:28
  like when I when I got to New York, right.
• 46:31
  Like I'm born and raised in Miami.
• 46:32
  I've just been in New York now for 14 years and I aligned
• 46:35
  better with like the New York kind of way of being.
• 46:39
  But I was very like pink headband and like bracelets and
• 46:42
  fucking pink sharpie and look cute and my, my whatever match
• 46:45
  is. And like nobody gives a fuck.
• 46:48
  Like what you look like, you know, like what matches, how
• 46:51
  much money you have. Nobody cares.
• 46:53
  You need to be talented. Like I would say earn respect,
• 46:57
  like look to be respected by your peers first and foremost.
• 47:02
  And the way that you earn that respect is by being talented and
• 47:05
  what and and like good at what you do.
• 47:07
  And I would tell you that like when we used to get like
• 47:12
  performance reviews and in the beginning of my career, like my
• 47:15
  chefs rated me C like very 70%, like your average.
• 47:19
  And that was like detrimental to my like everything.
• 47:21
  I was like, what do you mean, bro?
• 47:22
  I try so hard. What they would tell me though
• 47:25
  is like, you're not so talented, but you'll outwork everybody in
• 47:28
  the room. Like you work very hard.
• 47:30
  And so now I am, I would say I'm pretty talented and a lot of
• 47:33
  people would, a lot of my chefs would agree with that now.
• 47:37
  But my point in saying that is if you're not talented right
• 47:41
  away, that can come if you're not naturally like gifted in in
• 47:44
  this sport. Being around them, you get
• 47:46
  better. You will get better as you
• 47:48
  learn. You'll go, you'll get more
• 47:49
  creative. That's normal.
• 47:51
  But your work ethic needs to be there and as long as you have
• 47:54
  that work ethic, you will gain the respect of your peers.
• 47:57
  Shut up. Try not to fight back.
• 47:59
  I was very combative. I didn't like people telling me
• 48:01
  what to do and like I was like the Dick in the kitchen.
• 48:04
  Like nobody liked me for like my first, my internship, everyone
• 48:07
  was like, shut up, girl. Like, why are you?
• 48:09
  Don't answer me back with like you're an intern.
• 48:12
  Shut up. You know, And my chefs, like the
• 48:14
  EC's, the CDC's always loved me because I worked so hard and I
• 48:18
  was very respectful towards them.
• 48:19
  But like the ones on the station that would try to like correct
• 48:23
  your party or whatever, Yeah, I would be like, go fuck yourself.
• 48:25
  Why are you talking to me like that?
• 48:26
  Like who do you think you are like, And I was very like, I'll
• 48:28
  fight you kind of like stupid. Like don't be like that.
• 48:31
  It's OK. Like you got to understand, like
• 48:33
  you're walking into an environment where whoever's
• 48:36
  treating you, how they're treating you also walked into
• 48:38
  into that behavior. And that's just the culture.
• 48:40
  So your best bet is to be quiet. Like be quiet, learn, get really
• 48:46
  good and then tell them shut the fuck up, wait till it's your
• 48:48
  turn to be and like you actually shut everybody up with your like
• 48:52
  ability to be a boss. Right.
• 48:54
  And that's what people don't understand.
• 48:55
  It's like the social currency and in kitchens is your ability
• 48:58
  to cook currency that that's social currency.
• 49:00
  It doesn't matter. Like you said, it doesn't matter
• 49:02
  What Car you drive, what you look like, how much money can
• 49:04
  you cook, That's it. That's it, that's it.
• 49:06
  So I would say like, you know, just just, you know, putting
• 49:08
  your head down, being really focused on getting good, learn,
• 49:12
  learn the good habits of the cooks around you and don't and
• 49:14
  learn their bad ones so you don't repeat them.
• 49:17
  Being super clean and organized is like is.
• 49:20
  Did you, did you ever make a mistake back then?
• 49:22
  Like, like, like the the like that you still remember to this
• 49:25
  day. Then it haunts you, OK.
• 49:27
  Oh, that's a good question. Did I?
• 49:29
  Well, of course I made mistakes. Yeah, yeah, the one that.
• 49:31
  Like I was really fucking clumsy when like I, I used to trip and
• 49:34
  fall a lot, a lot like I have a lot of injuries from the
• 49:38
  kitchen. I used to trip and fall a lot,
• 49:39
  but I used to drop things a lot. Oh, here's a here's one that
• 49:42
  reminds me. It doesn't haunt me, but I
• 49:43
  remember it because the chefs were so like this girl is dumb.
• 49:47
  Like I was, I was passing stock and to be really honest with you
• 49:51
  or. Something.
• 49:52
  Yeah, through a chinois and the the I didn't like the sous chef
• 49:54
  who asked me to do it. So like, I'm such a Dick.
• 49:59
  I like knew that I should have kept pressing and I was like,
• 50:01
  that's enough. And I threw it away and he
• 50:03
  needed like more of it for service.
• 50:05
  And he like, he lost it. He all but like sent me home
• 50:08
  that day and he was like, you are not allowed to touch sauce
• 50:11
  in this kitchen ever again. Like, it was it was bad.
• 50:13
  It was funny. It was funny.
• 50:14
  But yeah, like, that also came from like, fuck you.
• 50:16
  I don't care this that much. And I yeah, but.
• 50:18
  How should I get fired? How did I not get fired?
• 50:21
  Yeah, that's that was an intern. So like they were paying me 7/25
• 50:24
  an hour. How much do you really like?
• 50:26
  You know what I mean? Right, right, right.
• 50:29
  What do you do? Like now for like hobbies, but
• 50:32
  how do you how do you unwind? Oh, so my favorite, favorite
• 50:35
  hobby is Muay Thai? Yeah, I'll try to think.
• 50:39
  I mean, it used to be mine. I'm like, not Muay Thai.
• 50:41
  I'm not Muay Thai ready. Anymore, To be honest with you,
• 50:44
  in this past year I worked, I went crazy like working.
• 50:46
  So I haven't been in the gym, but man, I was like probably a
• 50:50
  whole 60. Pounds You train?
• 50:51
  Do you train at like a fighter gym in New York?
• 50:53
  Yeah, in New York, Yeah, it is a fighter gym.
• 50:56
  But the I was between Miami and New York, like for a couple of
• 50:59
  years and I used to train with, like, guys in the UFC and like,
• 51:04
  it was in Miami. In Miami, Yeah.
• 51:05
  So Greg Chaplin is the name of the trainer.
• 51:07
  He currently trains guys in the UFC.
• 51:09
  He's like one of the best. He's like a ballerina.
• 51:12
  And I know that maybe that doesn't sound like a compliment
• 51:14
  to a Muay Thai fighter, but he's an artist.
• 51:16
  Like he's just, if there were Michelin stars for Muay Thai, he
• 51:19
  has like three of them 100, you know, he's incredible.
• 51:23
  Like he's just he was amazing. So I did train with him.
• 51:25
  And then here in New York City, there's are you.
• 51:28
  Going to fight? Are you training to fight?
• 51:30
  Or yeah, I would. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 51:33
  I wish so. I would train to fight because I
• 51:35
  wanted to be that good. But never like with attention.
• 51:38
  No, it's. Like like, yeah, I want to know
• 51:40
  that I could do it, but I don't want to do it.
• 51:41
  Correct And there was there was we used to do classes and there
• 51:45
  was a girl who's like, I'm just here to have fun and I was like,
• 51:46
  then train with her like someone else who's actually serious.
• 51:49
  You're. Like sparring, hard and all.
• 51:51
  That oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes.
• 51:53
  I'm like that. I'm very like, but in everything
• 51:55
  that I do, my dad was very hard on us as kids.
• 51:58
  I used to think like AC was a failing grade until like the 5th
• 52:02
  grade where I was like, Oh, that's, that's not failing
• 52:04
  because my dad was like, my kids don't bring home C's, my kids or
• 52:07
  not average. So he like instilled like being
• 52:10
  the best. And so now in everything that I
• 52:13
  like, like I'm an, I try to like, I'm an overachiever.
• 52:15
  Yeah. So how long have you been
• 52:16
  training Muay Thai? 2016. 26 Wow, so you've been
• 52:21
  almost 10 years. Oh, wow, wow.
• 52:24
  Yeah, I think 20/16/2017, Yeah, wow, wow.
• 52:26
  That's true. But like, to be fair, it's like
• 52:28
  very on and off. Like, I'll go like three years
• 52:30
  straight and that last year I barely trained at all, you know,
• 52:33
  to be fair. Do you like watching it as well?
• 52:36
  I like watching the UFCA little more.
• 52:38
  Well, actually I love Muay Thai I but I don't like watch the One
• 52:40
  Championship. I'll watch the UFC, yeah.
• 52:42
  Yeah, do you do you train MMA 2 or just just Muay Thai?
• 52:48
  Just Muay Thai. I'm not like so huge into
• 52:50
  grappling, to be honest. Yeah, like I like it, but like,
• 52:52
  I like to hit. Like I like striking.
• 52:54
  Yeah, I love striking. Yeah, I do too, except for when
• 52:59
  you get like, black eyes and like, concussions.
• 53:01
  Other than that. I used to like, Love Actually.
• 53:04
  This is so sick and weird. I used to love getting bruised
• 53:06
  up and be like, Oh yeah, I did that in class, like, but now I'm
• 53:08
  like, OK, that's stupid. But yeah, I used to love like
• 53:10
  the bruises and stuff like, Oh yeah, I train harder.
• 53:13
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I, when I used to train
• 53:15
  Muay Thai, actually a guy right now that that I used to like
• 53:19
  because keep in mind like I started training MMA like in
• 53:22
  1995. So it's a long time ago and
• 53:26
  fighting is like cooking. Like if you look at the fighters
• 53:30
  in 1995 and 97, they look like the chef's food back then.
• 53:34
  Like fighting's evolved so much and I trained for like 10 years,
• 53:38
  Muay Thai, MMA, and I took a break for like 5 or 6 years and
• 53:42
  then I got back into it again later and I was training at a
• 53:47
  fight gym with pro fighters and the like.
• 53:50
  They were so much more evolved and I was like, holy shit, like
• 53:53
  you guys are doing shit that's like, these are all new moves.
• 53:56
  Like I don't know any of this shit, you know what I mean?
• 53:58
  But fighting's kind of like that.
• 53:59
  But with, with Muay Thai, like it's, it was honestly, it's
• 54:04
  something that I truly, truly love.
• 54:06
  It's funny, a lot of chefs also fight like I, I've come across a
• 54:09
  lot of chefs that actually like, oh, I, I do MMA or I do Muay
• 54:12
  Thai or whatever. Like it's a good, it's a good
• 54:14
  stress relief for a lot of chefs.
• 54:16
  I, oh, this was the point that I was going to make is keep in
• 54:19
  mind when I was training Muay Thai, like 2000 and 4:00-ish,
• 54:24
  right? There was a kid in the gym who
• 54:27
  was 14 and he was fucking everyone up.
• 54:32
  He was 14. I remember I was like, I
• 54:34
  remember I had already been doing it for years.
• 54:35
  And it like sometimes when I have to spar with him, I was
• 54:37
  like, this 14 year old kid would smoke us and he was so good.
• 54:41
  He was so much better than everybody.
• 54:43
  And he just thought he's fighting in the UFC now like
• 54:46
  he's his name is Chidian Jukwani.
• 54:48
  He just thought like last weekend, I think.
• 54:51
  And it's like, wow, he like back then, we knew it back then.
• 54:55
  We knew how good he was. But it's, it's, it's crazy to
• 54:58
  see. Here in Texas.
• 55:00
  Here in Texas, yeah. So that gym that I was training
• 55:03
  at the the the gym was called Ginger or Muay Thai.
• 55:06
  It's it's in, it's in Dallas. But the the trainer Sexon, he's
• 55:10
  from Thailand. He's like he used to bring in a
• 55:12
  lot of heavy hitters back in the day.
• 55:14
  Like, you know, Boss Rootin used to train there doing Ludwig.
• 55:16
  A lot of he's to bring in guys from Thailand, Samat and like
• 55:20
  all the guys from Thailand would come to train there.
• 55:23
  So I had access. That's pretty cool.
• 55:24
  I had access to like a lot of Thai champions and I was like,
• 55:27
  you know, you know how it is in gyms like you, the coach is like
• 55:30
  the exact chef. But then there's like the sous
• 55:32
  chefs are like the pro fighters and you know, like the chef
• 55:35
  departees are like the amateurs. It's the same culture a little
• 55:38
  bit. So I was always on the upper end
• 55:40
  like I had I did amateur, but I never turned pro.
• 55:45
  But I was like the, the, the coach of the gym Saxon, when I
• 55:49
  was there, he used to look at me as like responsible.
• 55:53
  So like when he would go out of town, he would say you're in
• 55:55
  charge. Not because I was the best, but
• 55:57
  because he knew I was like good and responsible.
• 55:59
  Like I wasn't going to, I wasn't going to like fucking burn the
• 56:03
  place down, Right, Right, right. So I, I, yeah, a lot of my, I,
• 56:07
  I, I love fighting. I think it's synonymous with the
• 56:10
  kitchen in the way that it's like, you know, there it
• 56:12
  requires discipline to start. Yeah.
• 56:14
  The more serious you take it, the more you practice, the
• 56:16
  better you get. Yes, you know, it's a lot of
• 56:18
  hard work and it's taxing. It's not really I I enjoyed it
• 56:22
  that that was amazing, but it it becomes taxing on your body like
• 56:25
  after a certain amount of time, right.
• 56:27
  So those are the things that I find like synonymous with
• 56:31
  cooking. And I think like, like for me
• 56:34
  too, like the adrenaline during service, like I, I think, oh,
• 56:38
  this was something that like they loved about me when they
• 56:40
  were casting that I was like, bro, I've jumped out of an
• 56:43
  airplane. Have you?
• 56:44
  I have, I went skydiving like in 2017 or something.
• 56:47
  I would never do that again. But I was like, I get more of an
• 56:51
  adrenaline rush cooking 500 covers on on a Saturday night,
• 56:54
  like all day. And there's.
• 56:55
  Something about a perfect service.
• 56:57
  And I prefer that adrenaline all day.
• 56:58
  I take that all day. And so that like, I feel like us
• 57:03
  as cooks are in general, the character generally is slightly
• 57:06
  more aggressive than the average person.
• 57:08
  We, we have that in US and it's like we're a little bit
• 57:11
  masochistic, all of us a little bit because to like stand for 12
• 57:14
  hours to put, it's like constant pressure.
• 57:16
  Think about that. Like you have X amount of meson
• 57:19
  paws to do an X amount of time. And then you know, you're
• 57:22
  getting ready for service. Like it's not easy to like you
• 57:24
  got, you're in constant push for 12 hours.
• 57:28
  So like, I think like that's where like, and like fighting is
• 57:30
  like cortisol, adrenaline, it's all the same.
• 57:33
  So I'm not surprised. I'm so surprised now that
• 57:36
  there's a lot of chefs who like it.
• 57:38
  I think it the surprise comes more from like, bro, you have
• 57:40
  the time. Because when I was cooking, I
• 57:43
  was too tired. Yeah.
• 57:44
  Like, and like, that's all I ever did was cook, right?
• 57:46
  So yeah, no. Yeah, yeah, I don't do it
• 57:49
  anymore. I I can't kick anymore.
• 57:51
  Like if I threw a kick, I think I literally think my hip would
• 57:54
  pop out. I'm not kidding.
• 57:56
  Like you sell. Yourself too.
• 57:58
  No, no, no, I'm not kidding. Like sometimes I'm like, like if
• 58:00
  I'm like just messing around, I'll throw a kick because like,
• 58:02
  no, I could, I could do a straight kick like a teeth.
• 58:04
  Like I can't do that. Like I can't open my hip up.
• 58:07
  Like like I'm not kidding. I do feel like sometimes I'm
• 58:10
  walking. I'm like, I think my hip is
• 58:12
  going to fall out anyway. Knock on wood.
• 58:14
  Let's hope that. Doesn't.
• 58:15
  The combination of of of of Muay Thai, kickboxing, working in the
• 58:19
  kitchen, MMA, like I have a bad back, bad knees, bad hip.
• 58:23
  Yeah, yeah, I that actually. So I here's a fun fact.
• 58:26
  I was crossing the street one day and a, a little boy on his
• 58:29
  foot, like 18 year old on his phone hit me in his car, hit me.
• 58:34
  And so it wasn't so like thank God he wasn't going that fast,
• 58:37
  but like he like I fell. It was like a whole thing.
• 58:39
  I like injured my back so bad, like my spine was messed up and
• 58:42
  like I like lost a bunch of weight and Muay Thai is actually
• 58:46
  what corrected all my spine, my body like that's great,
• 58:48
  completely fixed most of the problem so it's good.
• 58:51
  For you, it messed up mine, it messed up my back and everything
• 58:54
  else. Yeah.
• 58:55
  And so, yeah, I mean, there's still, you know, like things
• 58:58
  like when I when I cook for too long, like 12 hours.
• 59:00
  We we just did a pop up this past weekend, me and like some
• 59:03
  of my cast mates and some former like people from Next level chef
• 59:06
  123 like the other seasons. And like I turned like I, I
• 59:11
  would just had dinner with my another business partner of mine
• 59:13
  the other day and I was like, bro, this is a sport for a young
• 59:17
  person. This is like the NFL, bro, at
• 59:19
  this stage you retire. Yeah, yeah, you're executive
• 59:22
  chef. You hit pads.
• 59:23
  That's it, no more, no more. And it like, yeah, it's, it's
• 59:26
  tough like now like cooking. I'm like, oh, I feel my back, I
• 59:29
  feel my hips, like I, I need to like relax for the next.
• 59:31
  It's, it's not like that's a young man's sport.
• 59:34
  Cooking is a young man's sport. All right, Chef, we're going to
• 59:36
  wrap up with our final two questions that I always ask
• 59:38
  everyone. If you had a Mount Rushmore of
• 59:39
  four chefs that you think deserve to be on Mount Rushmore,
• 59:42
  who would they be? I I like got this ready and I
• 59:45
  don't remember here we go. So definitely Thomas Keller.
• 59:49
  He's like, you know, he's the goat.
• 59:50
  He's the goat. Danielle has to go up on there
• 59:53
  too. You know, he's the pioneer for
• 59:56
  him to table. We got to give him Adam Perry
• 59:57
  link. I'm sorry.
• 59:58
  He is like a hidden gem and like people know about him now, like
• 1:00:01
  he's getting more, you know, recognition.
• 1:00:03
  But he is of like to me, the goat he's.
• 1:00:07
  Over everyone for me, that's number three right And then this
• 1:00:10
  one I don't know that you're you guys are going to like this
• 1:00:12
  answer, but I believe that more people will say this in 10 years
• 1:00:16
  from now. Josh Weissman.
• 1:00:18
  Yeah, no, I I like Josh. And I'm going to tell you why,
• 1:00:21
  because he is the what Emerald Lagasse was when I was a kid.
• 1:00:25
  He but like better, like, sorry, Emerald, I love you.
• 1:00:27
  You're like one of my idols. Don't get mad that I said, but
• 1:00:29
  better in that like he's so fucking serious.
• 1:00:32
  He's so good at what he does and he's so smart in that he entered
• 1:00:36
  the industry and he does he does everything he does with a lot of
• 1:00:39
  intention. So for me, I put him up on that
• 1:00:42
  Mount Rushmore, not because he's reached his pinnacle or he is
• 1:00:47
  the, you know, I'm put like Thomas Keller and the Danielle
• 1:00:50
  of the world. But I, I promise you in 10 years
• 1:00:53
  from now, there will be someone else sit like he will be the guy
• 1:00:57
  that people talk about. You know what I mean?
• 1:00:59
  And you know, I, I've obviously we did a, we did a show
• 1:01:02
  together, but I've talked to him off camera.
• 1:01:05
  He's laser sharp, focused on so brilliant.
• 1:01:08
  He's he is. He is in it.
• 1:01:10
  I love him. Someone tell him that I want to
• 1:01:12
  bake for him please. Last question, if you had a
• 1:01:14
  chef's PSA out there, what would?
• 1:01:15
  It be, I would say, I would say don't give up because it gets
• 1:01:19
  hard. It gets very hard, but you
• 1:01:21
  always have one more round of fight left in you.
• 1:01:23
  You always do, even if you feel like you don't.
• 1:01:26
  And if you if you go for that one more round, you'll get what
• 1:01:28
  you were, what you were going for.
• 1:01:30
  It's always right after the hardest point in your life.
• 1:01:33
  If you just push past that, you'll get what you wanted.
• 1:01:35
  That's it. This was fun.
• 1:01:36
  We got to do it. Again, absolutely.
• 1:01:37
  Where can people find you? You can find me on Instagram.
• 1:01:41
  On on Next Level Chef right now. Yeah, you can watch the Next
• 1:01:43
  Level Chef. Next level Chef and you can find
• 1:01:46
  me at Iman Kawa on Instagram. Or better than your mother's.
• 1:01:49
  Awesome. Thank you so much.
• 1:01:50
  Thank you so much. I hope you enjoyed the episode.
• 1:01:53
  If you want to support Chefs PSA, here are some things that
• 1:01:55
  you can do. You can go to chefspsa.com where
• 1:01:58
  you get all the books that I published, including some free
• 1:02:01
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• 1:02:03
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• 1:02:07
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• 1:02:10
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• 1:02:20
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• 1:02:22
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• 1:02:24
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• 1:02:27
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• 1:02:30
  We'll see you next week at the Porn.
• 1:02:38
  On. Me.