Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 905: Cal and Kenyon Crash Washington DC for Public Lands and Wildlife

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Ep. 905: Cal and Kenyon Crash Washington DC for Public Lands and Wildlife · Wired To Hunt Podcast

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
0:04
Speaker 1: the whitetail Woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile
0:09
Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light
0:13
Speaker 1: Go farther, stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
0:19
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on
0:23
Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by Ryan Callahan to recap our
0:27
Speaker 2: recent visit to Washington, d C. To advocate for our
0:31
Speaker 2: public lands and wildlife. All Right, welcome back to the
0:40
Speaker 2: Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light,
0:44
Speaker 2: and today we are recapping for you a recent trip
0:49
Speaker 2: that I took just last week actually with mister Ryan
0:53
Speaker 2: Callahan to visit Washington, d C. We were speaking there
0:59
Speaker 2: with our elected officials about the importance of our public lands,
1:03
Speaker 2: our wildlife, hunting and fishing opportunities, and everything in between.
1:09
Speaker 2: And if you have been following the news and various
1:12
Speaker 2: outlets that cover conservation and public lands and wildlife related issues,
1:17
Speaker 2: then you're probably aware of some of the things going on.
1:20
Speaker 2: If not, maybe you're a little bit out of the loop.
1:22
Speaker 2: We've tried to cover some of this here on Wired
1:25
Speaker 2: to Hunt. We actually just had cal on the podcast
1:28
Speaker 2: maybe a month and a half two months ago to
1:30
Speaker 2: talk about some things, But since then there have been
1:35
Speaker 2: all sorts of new issues and updates when it comes
1:41
Speaker 2: to what's happening with environmental protections, with public land related
1:47
Speaker 2: regulations and protections. There have been a number of proposals
1:53
Speaker 2: that raise some red flags when it comes to the
1:56
Speaker 2: future of these things. Take, for example, proposals from the
2:01
Speaker 2: current administration to possibly sell public lands for housing. There
2:06
Speaker 2: have been other serious discussions within Congress about using the
2:11
Speaker 2: sale of public lands to fund some of our budget
2:15
Speaker 2: issues at the moment that are being debated within the
2:18
Speaker 2: budget reconciliation process. And that's something that's particularly dangerous and
2:24
Speaker 2: concerning because this whole reconciliation process. To forgive me for
2:29
Speaker 2: getting some jargon here, but when a bill is passed
2:33
Speaker 2: through reconciliation, it does not require the sixty votes that
2:37
Speaker 2: most bills require. It can be passed with a simple majority,
2:40
Speaker 2: so fifty one votes could get something passed. And oftentimes
2:45
Speaker 2: in this reconciliation process, they lump a whole bunch of
2:48
Speaker 2: issues into these budget focused bills, so stuff can get
2:52
Speaker 2: passed as part of one of these budget considerations that
2:56
Speaker 2: just kind of gets tacked on to the end that
2:58
Speaker 2: could have far reaching implications. So in this case, a
3:02
Speaker 2: serious sale of public lands, something that would have generational
3:06
Speaker 2: impact for many of us, could possibly be slipped into
3:09
Speaker 2: this thing and then have to get passed because it's
3:11
Speaker 2: a party line kind of thing. So that's why this
3:14
Speaker 2: stuff is really getting a lot of people's attention right now.
3:19
Speaker 2: There's countless other specifics that we could get into that
3:23
Speaker 2: we won't, but rest assured there's been more news and
3:28
Speaker 2: proposals and action item type emails and action alerts sent
3:34
Speaker 2: out over the last few months that I've seen in
3:36
Speaker 2: years and years and years. And we've got to be
3:39
Speaker 2: paying attention to these things, and we've got to let
3:41
Speaker 2: our voices be heard and letting people know, whether they
3:43
Speaker 2: are Democrats or Republicans or something in between, let them
3:47
Speaker 2: know that we care about our public lands, we care
3:49
Speaker 2: about wildlife, we care about conserving these things and protecting
3:53
Speaker 2: these things for the future, for a sustainable, long term future.
3:58
Speaker 2: And that is why me and Cal and a whole
4:02
Speaker 2: lot of other folks visited Washington, d C. Last week
4:05
Speaker 2: to make sure that those kinds of ideas, that those
4:08
Speaker 2: causes and values are represented there in the halls of Congress.
4:14
Speaker 2: So today's podcast is me and Cale recapping that trip.
4:19
Speaker 2: We discussed what we did there, why we were there,
4:22
Speaker 2: the issues we talked about, the people we spoke with,
4:27
Speaker 2: some of these broader things going on. There was a
4:29
Speaker 2: number of kind of conservation related events going on there.
4:32
Speaker 2: We talked about that a little bit, but I think
4:34
Speaker 2: most interesting to you guys will be kind of the
4:37
Speaker 2: takeaways we had from these conversations. You know, what do
4:40
Speaker 2: these meetings with a congressional representative look like. We visited
4:45
Speaker 2: the offices of the House representatives, and we visited offices
4:49
Speaker 2: of senators. We met with everything from senior staff members
4:54
Speaker 2: to sometimes the senator or representative themselves. We talked to
4:59
Speaker 2: a lot of people. We got a very interesting kind
5:01
Speaker 2: of look behind the curtain when it comes to what's
5:03
Speaker 2: happening right now related to the issues we care about.
5:07
Speaker 2: So we wanted to report back to you on what
5:09
Speaker 2: we learned on kind of what the vibe is there
5:12
Speaker 2: right now, how concerned people are about these issues, or
5:15
Speaker 2: are not concerned about these issues, and lots in between.
5:20
Speaker 2: So we're going to talk about that. We're going to
5:21
Speaker 2: talk about tactics a little bit about how you can
5:24
Speaker 2: use some of the strategies and framing ideas that we
5:28
Speaker 2: used to advocate for these things to these people how
5:31
Speaker 2: you might be able to use that yourself when making
5:33
Speaker 2: a phone call or having a meeting of your own.
5:37
Speaker 2: And we talk about some of the things that all
5:39
Speaker 2: of this has made us realize about the future. What
5:43
Speaker 2: this entails we do in the coming months and years
5:47
Speaker 2: to make sure that we've got wildlife and wild places
5:51
Speaker 2: where we can hunt and fish and camp or climb
5:55
Speaker 2: or bike or whatever does he like to do. We
5:57
Speaker 2: want to make sure that can continue to happen. And
6:00
Speaker 2: if we want that to be the case, it's going
6:02
Speaker 2: to require not just me and Cale going to Washington, DC,
6:05
Speaker 2: but all of us doing our part, having meetings, making
6:08
Speaker 2: phone calls, sending emails, letting our elected officials know that
6:11
Speaker 2: this stuff really matters. So that is our podcast here today,
6:16
Speaker 2: and it's a special joint episode. So Cal and I
6:19
Speaker 2: we're both hosting this one and we're both releasing it
6:22
Speaker 2: on our individual podcast channel. So hopefully you know that
6:25
Speaker 2: Ryan Callahan has his own podcast. It's called Cal's Weekend Review.
6:30
Speaker 2: It's another show on the media or network just like mine.
6:32
Speaker 2: And you definitely should go over there and tune into
6:35
Speaker 2: that show and subscribe if you're not already. His show
6:39
Speaker 2: every week is a recap of the most important public
6:42
Speaker 2: land and wildlife and conservation related news and issues and updates.
6:47
Speaker 2: So it's a great place to stay aware of everything
6:50
Speaker 2: going on, so make sure you do that. And speaking
6:54
Speaker 2: of you know, back in the day, when I first
6:56
Speaker 2: started this podcast some like twelve thirteen years ago, I
6:59
Speaker 2: frequently reminded people to subscribe to the podcast, to leave
7:03
Speaker 2: a review, to share it with their friends and family.
7:06
Speaker 2: But I have not done that for a long time,
7:09
Speaker 2: and I've kind of gotten complacent on that because I
7:11
Speaker 2: just sort of assumed that everyone knows that and does that.
7:14
Speaker 2: But you know, this is a great reminder as I'm
7:18
Speaker 2: plugging Kale to also plug this one. If you're not already,
7:21
Speaker 2: please subscribe to this podcast. You can get every single
7:25
Speaker 2: new episode popped right up into your podcast app, so
7:28
Speaker 2: you don't miss one. If that's something you're interested in doing.
7:31
Speaker 2: Price to subscribe or follow, please leave a review if
7:35
Speaker 2: you haven't yet. We've been doing this podcast for free
7:38
Speaker 2: for more than a decade and if that has in
7:41
Speaker 2: any way benefited your life, which which I really hope
7:43
Speaker 2: it has. That's been the goal all these all these years.
7:46
Speaker 2: If that's the case, I would love to hear about that.
7:49
Speaker 2: I'd love to see your feedback there in the reviews
7:52
Speaker 2: and share with a friend, share it with a friend,
7:55
Speaker 2: excuse me, share with a family member. Anything along those
7:58
Speaker 2: lines would would be rific. So thanks to that in advance.
8:02
Speaker 2: Thanks for tuning into this one. Thank you for joining
8:05
Speaker 2: me and Cal and trying to fight the good fight
8:08
Speaker 2: to make sure we have these incredible opportunities and places
8:12
Speaker 2: and critters that make our way of life possible. So
8:16
Speaker 2: that's what today is all about. That's what our visit
8:18
Speaker 2: last week was about. And I hope you enjoyed this one.
8:25
Speaker 3: Hey, what's happening in Meat Eater universe. This is Ryan
8:28
Speaker 3: cal Callahan, Cal's We Can Review Cal the wilde Podcast Channel.
8:34
Speaker 3: I'm joined Todave for another special interview series with the
8:38
Speaker 3: one and only Mark Kenyon of Wired to Hunt Fame.
8:42
Speaker 3: This guy's been on the front page of Field and Stream.
8:50
Speaker 3: He's a cover boy, as they say in the biz.
8:54
Speaker 2: That's a deep cut. That's an old, old reference there.
8:57
Speaker 2: It's been quite a while, so you're digging out the archives.
9:01
Speaker 2: My friend, Well you got.
9:03
Speaker 3: I mean, you're I guess in the zeitgeist. I guess
9:07
Speaker 3: is what they'd say. He's a well cataloged human. He's
9:09
Speaker 3: been putting out content informing folks, I would say, primarily
9:15
Speaker 3: on the white Tail front for a lot of years.
9:17
Speaker 3: He's also an author working on book number two. I'm
9:22
Speaker 3: not sure if that's public knowledge yet, but it is
9:24
Speaker 3: now and today we're going to talk about being advocates,
9:32
Speaker 3: following through with our duties as citizens and voters in
9:36
Speaker 3: these United States taxpayers to inform our duly elected, let
9:43
Speaker 3: them know what they're doing right, what they're doing wrong,
9:45
Speaker 3: and what they could do better from are very specific
9:50
Speaker 3: points of view.
9:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got to jump into kil and just say that,
9:56
Speaker 2: if you've got free time once a week, I would
10:00
Speaker 2: for you to introduce me on every one of my
10:02
Speaker 2: podcast episodes too, like that. I could really use a
10:05
Speaker 2: hype man. You do a hell of a job, So
10:07
Speaker 2: thanks for that.
10:08
Speaker 4: Well, let's hear your let's hear your Wired to Hunt intro.
10:12
Speaker 2: Let's go the Wired to Hunt intro. I would, uh,
10:16
Speaker 2: you know, I'd open it up with the typical welcome
10:18
Speaker 2: to Wired to Hunt this week on the show and
10:21
Speaker 2: then what I would say is something along the lines
10:24
Speaker 2: of the fact that you and I crashed Washington, d C.
10:28
Speaker 2: Last week and had a lot of really interesting conversations
10:33
Speaker 2: about a lot of interesting things with people all throughout
10:39
Speaker 2: the nonprofit conservation ranks, the government, and points in between
10:44
Speaker 2: that that were a, I thought really interesting and important.
10:48
Speaker 2: But B and here's my hype man moment for you,
10:51
Speaker 2: kal H. We're just really eye opening for me with
10:56
Speaker 2: what you bring to the table as far as a
11:00
Speaker 2: leader in this space. So I really appreciated how you
11:05
Speaker 2: were able to communicate with some of our elected officials
11:08
Speaker 2: and the representatives and advocate for the stuff we care about,
11:13
Speaker 2: which is, you know what we're going to talk about
11:14
Speaker 2: here today. But long story short, I liked seeing how
11:17
Speaker 2: the sausage is made, I think, is what I'm getting to.
11:19
Speaker 2: I liked the fact that we're able to kind of
11:22
Speaker 2: see both inside the gears of our government a little bit.
11:28
Speaker 2: And then I also got to see into the world
11:30
Speaker 2: of Ryan cale Callahan, the fearless leader of Cal's We
11:33
Speaker 2: Can Review, and saw how you not just talk the talk,
11:36
Speaker 2: but walk it. So yeah, man, I'm glad we can
11:40
Speaker 2: catch back up here today to talk about everything that
11:42
Speaker 2: happened to talk about you know what? I have always
11:48
Speaker 2: watched from Afar and wondered, you know, what's really happening there?
11:52
Speaker 2: Does a visit there matter? Does it actually make a difference?
11:56
Speaker 2: What's that? You know? What could that lead to? I've
11:59
Speaker 2: had a lot of questions over the years, and so
12:01
Speaker 2: finally getting to be a part of that myself was
12:04
Speaker 2: very eye opening. I guess I've said a couple of times,
12:08
Speaker 2: but eye opening. So how do you want to do this?
12:10
Speaker 2: Where should we start?
12:10
Speaker 4: Cail, Let's say, what what were we there to do? What?
12:16
Speaker 4: What did we hope to accomplish?
12:18
Speaker 2: Yeah? What about you got there a day before me? Right,
12:21
Speaker 2: so I'll let you, uh, I'll let you lead with
12:24
Speaker 2: what you thought you were going to accomplish and what
12:25
Speaker 2: you wanted to do.
12:27
Speaker 3: I had a very, as it turns out, fortunate travel
12:32
Speaker 3: schedule where I and I really haven't even got around
12:36
Speaker 3: to talking about this elsewhere, but I got to join
12:41
Speaker 3: West Virginia Backhuntry Hunters and Anglers, the West Virginia Chapter,
12:46
Speaker 3: as well as several members of the West Virginia Department
12:49
Speaker 3: of Natural Resources on a about a fifty to fifty
12:54
Speaker 3: split private land, public land turkey hunt, and we floated
12:58
Speaker 3: the New River Gorge just gorgeous and awesome and super fun,
13:05
Speaker 3: and camped out on the river and hunted public land
13:11
Speaker 3: birds and public land off of the New River, and
13:15
Speaker 3: we got skunked on the birds. I had some fun
13:19
Speaker 3: encounters in there, busting through some West Virginia rainforest and
13:25
Speaker 3: then essentially in a not efficient route, went directly to
13:31
Speaker 3: d C. I had a firearm which I had needed
13:35
Speaker 3: to return back to my home, but anyway, so I
13:39
Speaker 3: landed in DC, went directly to Senator she He, which
13:49
Speaker 3: Tim she is our freshman senator here in Montana. He
13:55
Speaker 3: won the tightest race that we had this past election
14:00
Speaker 3: series with an incumbent Democrat, John Tester.
14:04
Speaker 4: Who has been.
14:08
Speaker 3: Really really solid on public lands, public access, and wildlife
14:15
Speaker 3: habitat issues during during his run as a senator here
14:19
Speaker 3: in Montana. And Senator Tim Shee is a freshman, he's
14:24
Speaker 3: brand new. So we had him on the Mediator podcast
14:27
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago. I think he did a
14:31
Speaker 3: good job. We talked about fire management, land management, and
14:38
Speaker 3: you know, kind of got to know him and his
14:40
Speaker 3: perspective a bit, which is always valuable, especially when you
14:45
Speaker 3: want to do what we're going to talk about, which
14:47
Speaker 3: is get your prerogatives across, right, And I met with
14:57
Speaker 3: one of his staffers with folks need to understand, like
15:03
Speaker 3: you don't always get to meet with the elected official,
15:06
Speaker 3: you get to meet with their staff quite often, and
15:12
Speaker 3: that you need to treat as valuable time because I
15:17
Speaker 3: know lots and lots of stories of it's it's.
15:21
Speaker 4: Like a mini government.
15:22
Speaker 3: Okay, So like your senator is your your head of state,
15:27
Speaker 3: and their staff is there to cover certain spheres of
15:37
Speaker 3: interest and then inform the head of state as to
15:45
Speaker 3: the whole situation, the feedback that they're getting, and probably
15:51
Speaker 3: more than likely offer an opinion as to what they
15:57
Speaker 3: think they should do.
15:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, the gate keeper, the prioritizer, right.
16:02
Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah.
16:03
Speaker 3: And you know, I've talked to folks who have been
16:06
Speaker 3: staffers for a lot of different elected officials and they
16:11
Speaker 3: all have stories of this is why you need to
16:15
Speaker 3: take a staff position seriously. And one person in particular,
16:23
Speaker 3: they're working for an elected official in Colorado who had
16:28
Speaker 3: no hunting and fishing experience, but they're well aware that
16:34
Speaker 3: there are many hunters and anglers in the state of Colorado,
16:38
Speaker 3: and despite having zero hunting and fishing experience. That elected
16:45
Speaker 3: official had staffers who had hunting and fishing experience in spades.
16:50
Speaker 3: That's part of what he was rounding out in his cabinet,
16:54
Speaker 3: if you will. And they were able to pass a
16:58
Speaker 3: series of really good wildlife bills through that office, and
17:05
Speaker 3: largely on behalf of around on the shoulders of the
17:09
Speaker 3: staffers in that office. It looks good for the elected official.
17:14
Speaker 3: They're not tied to it in the way that that
17:17
Speaker 3: folks who hunt and fish all the time are. But
17:19
Speaker 3: they were good enough, smart enough to understand that they
17:24
Speaker 3: needed those people in their office. And so if you
17:26
Speaker 3: go in and you talk above their heads and you
17:29
Speaker 3: don't try to get to know them and treat them
17:33
Speaker 3: with respect, you can imagine like the type of report
17:37
Speaker 3: that's going to go back to the elected official right
17:41
Speaker 3: at the head of state, it's not not going to
17:43
Speaker 3: be a good one. And these are people that are
17:46
Speaker 3: in their orbit there, they are intimately familiar with each other. So,
17:54
Speaker 3: and I guess while we're on this topic, I will
17:56
Speaker 3: also throw out this something I was reminded of on
18:01
Speaker 3: this trip. DC is a very expensive place to live.
18:07
Speaker 3: As such, there's people who just stay in DC. So
18:13
Speaker 3: your staff are for your home state or state representative
18:21
Speaker 3: that you want to speak with you, it's you shouldn't
18:25
Speaker 3: assume that they are from the state that they're representing,
18:29
Speaker 3: which is an odd things go. So I like to say, hey,
18:35
Speaker 3: this is what I want to talk to you about today.
18:39
Speaker 3: How familiar with this topic are you, and again trying
18:46
Speaker 3: to approach things in a non confrontational, friendly way of like,
18:51
Speaker 3: we're here to exchange some knowledge, hopefully for the collective benefit.
18:59
Speaker 3: So if you tell me you don't know, I'm not
19:01
Speaker 3: going to be like, Okay, dumb ass, find me somebody else.
19:04
Speaker 2: Yeah.
19:05
Speaker 4: Right.
19:05
Speaker 2: One thing I did find in my experience too, and
19:08
Speaker 2: talking with some other folks, was that the educational side
19:12
Speaker 2: of things is just as important as trying to influence
19:16
Speaker 2: because in a lot of these cases, they simply, you know,
19:19
Speaker 2: especially with staffers, don't know about some of these specific
19:22
Speaker 2: issues that we're talking about, or maybe don't understand the
19:26
Speaker 2: full story. So yeah, just starting with that building a
19:31
Speaker 2: foundation is if that's all you did in these types
19:34
Speaker 2: of visits, that would probably still be worthwhile, just to
19:37
Speaker 2: make sure we're all looking at the same set of facts,
19:40
Speaker 2: at looking at the same deck of cards.
19:42
Speaker 3: You know, absolutely absolutely, and you know, I mean we're
19:46
Speaker 3: all subject to headlines, and there's a lot of headlines
19:49
Speaker 3: I would say the majority out there that aren't getting
19:52
Speaker 3: the real story across. And it's like you said, probably
19:57
Speaker 3: worthwhile to make a phone call, shoot an email over
20:02
Speaker 3: and just provide some some real facts and wildlife management
20:06
Speaker 3: is not a casual thing to read up on unless
20:11
Speaker 3: you're actually interested in them. Yeah, so so, yeah, I
20:16
Speaker 3: met with the Josh guy in Chihi's staff. We had
20:22
Speaker 3: a good conversation about a number of things. And this
20:26
Speaker 3: is kind of like to our goals of what we
20:28
Speaker 3: were trying to do encourage elected officials to stand strong
20:36
Speaker 3: on public lands, meaning we don't want to see public
20:39
Speaker 3: lands sold off. If we have to sell public lands
20:43
Speaker 3: at Darnshire, better go through the system that's in place
20:48
Speaker 3: so the American people understand exactly what they stand to lose,
20:53
Speaker 3: so they can make a better decision.
20:57
Speaker 4: During the public comment period as to.
21:04
Speaker 3: If they think the juice is worth the squeeze, which
21:07
Speaker 3: is something we heard a lot last week. And uh,
21:14
Speaker 3: by standing strong, we mean co sponsor Ryan Zinke's Public
21:19
Speaker 3: Lands in Public Hands Act. If you can't co sponsor.
21:24
Speaker 3: You should sign up and join the caucus public caucus. Yeah, yeah,
21:31
Speaker 3: make a statement and in return, we are more than
21:38
Speaker 3: happy to support you back. Let people know that you
21:43
Speaker 3: did a really good thing, and then you know, there's
21:47
Speaker 3: lots of data that we can provide as to why
21:51
Speaker 3: this matters, uh, financially and just in the American interest level.
21:59
Speaker 3: Something I did consistently across the board with everybody I
22:02
Speaker 3: spoke with was talk about the Grasslands Act, and as
22:13
Speaker 3: you and I discussed a little bit, one way that
22:15
Speaker 3: I did that was through talking about the Lesser Prairie
22:19
Speaker 3: Chicken Landowner Alliance, which is, you know, I'll just say,
22:24
Speaker 3: like a bunch of conservative ranchers who are trying to
22:26
Speaker 3: save ranching, and by saving ranching, they're going to save
22:32
Speaker 3: our most recently added used to be huntable species, the
22:38
Speaker 3: lesser prairie chicken, something that happened on our watch as hunters.
22:42
Speaker 3: It's sickening to me, but the lesser prairie chicken used
22:45
Speaker 3: to be a huntable species. Now it is not, and
22:49
Speaker 3: ninety percent of that population lives on private land. If
22:53
Speaker 3: they want to save ranching and do a good thing
22:56
Speaker 3: in turn for this endangered speed which I think a
23:02
Speaker 3: lot of Republicans perked up their ears on because the
23:06
Speaker 3: ESA is is quote unquote under attack right now, they
23:14
Speaker 3: can support the North American Grasslands Conservation Act, and in
23:21
Speaker 3: so doing they'll provide a funding mechanism directed specifically at
23:28
Speaker 3: ranchers who are trying to improve native grassland habitat which
23:34
Speaker 3: the lesser prairie chicken needs. So that was a big ass.
23:39
Speaker 3: And then another one that I think is a softball
23:44
Speaker 3: and something that a staffer could take immediate action on
23:49
Speaker 3: was and this is something that came up through chapter
23:55
Speaker 3: feedback at the BHA level, our chapters at Backcountry Hunter's names,
24:00
Speaker 3: they work a lot with state agencies, volunteering for different
24:04
Speaker 3: habitat projects and certainly lobbying for good bills when their
24:11
Speaker 3: states are in session, lobbying hard for good state management
24:18
Speaker 3: species and habitat.
24:20
Speaker 4: Well.
24:20
Speaker 3: The feedback that we're getting from our state agencies is
24:24
Speaker 3: that because of staffing shortages created by DOJE actions or
24:31
Speaker 3: through DOJE actions, either the early termination fork in the
24:37
Speaker 3: Road email which allowed for early retirement, early termination with
24:43
Speaker 3: some benefits to federal employees, or elimination of positions the
24:51
Speaker 3: office that approves and cuts the checks out of the
24:57
Speaker 3: Wildlife Fund, which is funded through Pittman, Robertson and Dingle
25:02
Speaker 3: Johnson dollars, excise tax dollars and then matched three to
25:07
Speaker 3: one with our license and tag fees at the state level.
25:14
Speaker 3: And these are are on the ground state projects that
25:20
Speaker 3: this administration is supposed to prioritize. They are not getting
25:26
Speaker 3: those funds.
25:28
Speaker 4: That the rank and file.
25:34
Speaker 3: State citizen wants and the state agency wants to make happen.
25:39
Speaker 3: They're not getting that cash to make these projects happen
25:43
Speaker 3: because there's nobody in that federal office to approve the project.
25:48
Speaker 3: Slash cut the check for the project that's already been approved.
25:52
Speaker 3: And that's a major issue, and that's how we're already
25:56
Speaker 3: seeing some impacts of some of these layoffs. So that's
26:01
Speaker 3: a really good one because it's some phone calls, some
26:06
Speaker 3: pressure that needs to be put on, said, hey, we
26:09
Speaker 3: need people back in this office.
26:11
Speaker 4: You're hurting your voters.
26:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, And.
26:16
Speaker 3: It's cash that doesn't need to be appropriated. It's a
26:19
Speaker 3: separate fund. It's our money, our sportsman angler dollars and
26:26
Speaker 3: our recreational shooting dollars and our hunting dollars that are
26:30
Speaker 3: going to hunt to fund our you know, more habitat
26:34
Speaker 3: and more access work. So those are three consistent ones
26:39
Speaker 3: across the board.
26:52
Speaker 2: So I guess to kind of recap with every one
26:55
Speaker 2: of these meetings, it seemed like there was there was
26:57
Speaker 2: like a three or four part framework. It was, you know,
27:00
Speaker 2: we came in number one, established you know, who we are,
27:04
Speaker 2: and then what we wanted to speak about, which was
27:06
Speaker 2: generally public lands and wildlife related issues. And then we
27:09
Speaker 2: spent some time more establishing Okay, you know this is
27:13
Speaker 2: who we represent. We represent mediator or first light or
27:17
Speaker 2: backcountry hunters and anglers, and you know, these are the things,
27:20
Speaker 2: These are the kinds of things that we care about.
27:21
Speaker 2: This is the kind of scale we have, This is
27:23
Speaker 2: the the community that we represent and reach. So that
27:27
Speaker 2: I think that was just setting the stage for hey,
27:30
Speaker 2: we represent a lot of interest, and we also we
27:35
Speaker 2: are worth listening to. I suppose would be a little
27:37
Speaker 2: bit of what some of that framing would be at
27:39
Speaker 2: the beginning. And then it was okay, now, given all that,
27:42
Speaker 2: here is why public lands and wildlife and these things
27:46
Speaker 2: we just mentioned, this is why they matter to our community.
27:48
Speaker 2: This is why they matter to your constituents. People that
27:51
Speaker 2: live in your state or your district, so we tried to,
27:55
Speaker 2: you know, share a little bit that would help connect
27:57
Speaker 2: those dots. And then finally what you just described there
28:00
Speaker 2: was the ask, so here's a specific way that we
28:04
Speaker 2: would like you to take action on this issue for us.
28:08
Speaker 2: And then finally, I guess, so this is more like
28:10
Speaker 2: a five part piece. We typically always ended with a
28:14
Speaker 2: little bit of that relationship building back and forth, which was, hey,
28:18
Speaker 2: how can we help you If you are willing to
28:20
Speaker 2: support these things, what can we do to make that
28:22
Speaker 2: easier for you? Or how can we support that? Or
28:25
Speaker 2: what can we further educate you on or what materials
28:28
Speaker 2: do you need or whatever it might be to help
28:31
Speaker 2: make this stuff happen. Because I can't remember if it
28:35
Speaker 2: was you who said this or somebody else, but you know,
28:37
Speaker 2: oftentimes these meetings are just a step one. This is
28:42
Speaker 2: that foot in the door which hopefully leads to maybe
28:44
Speaker 2: an email back and forth or another visit down the
28:47
Speaker 2: road or whatever it is that leads to you know,
28:50
Speaker 2: you getting one step closer to actually seeing the kind
28:54
Speaker 2: of action that you want to see happen. And so
28:57
Speaker 2: it was it was that basic recipe for every one
29:00
Speaker 2: of these meetings right, Kill, and I had let me
29:04
Speaker 2: see what my numbers are here. I had eight of these,
29:09
Speaker 2: and I think you had something pretty similar. So so
29:12
Speaker 2: I'll run through the list of the offices I met with,
29:14
Speaker 2: and then I want to hear what yours were. I
29:16
Speaker 2: met with Senator Risch's office from Idaho, Senator Heinrich from
29:19
Speaker 2: New Mexico, Senator Danes from Montana, Representative Zinki from Montana,
29:24
Speaker 2: Representative More from Alabama. Rep. Latta from Ohio, Salazar from Florida,
29:31
Speaker 2: and Malyotakis from New York. Who all was on your list?
29:37
Speaker 2: You mentioned Shehi already? Who else or what other offices
29:39
Speaker 2: did you hit? Kil?
29:43
Speaker 4: Let's see, I guess in order. Well, I had that evening.
29:49
Speaker 3: I went to the Ducks Unlimited Bank what they're in DC,
29:53
Speaker 3: and fat with you know, the new in our CS team,
30:01
Speaker 3: so freshly appointed National Resource Conservation Service team, which I
30:10
Speaker 3: thought was was great to get to know some of
30:12
Speaker 3: those folks, a lot of hunters and some ag backgrounds there.
30:19
Speaker 2: There.
30:19
Speaker 3: There are a couple of folks that I spoke with.
30:22
Speaker 3: They're definitely coming from different backgrounds in a lot of ways,
30:28
Speaker 3: but the similar parts were great.
30:31
Speaker 4: In the fact that.
30:35
Speaker 3: They have some bag background, there's some bird dog owners
30:38
Speaker 3: in there, there's some hunters in there. And you know,
30:42
Speaker 3: the National Resource Conservation Service is the largest conservation org.
30:50
Speaker 4: Would be.
30:52
Speaker 3: Agency, would be the largest conservation agency in the world,
30:56
Speaker 3: and they got hit pretty hard during the DOGE process.
31:00
Speaker 3: So I'm optimistic that these folks are going to be
31:07
Speaker 3: able to understand the benefits that they can provide to
31:15
Speaker 3: our egg producers, and we need as sportsmen and women,
31:21
Speaker 3: we need to understand that making sure our egg producers
31:27
Speaker 3: stay producing also keeps, quite selfishly, all that open space open,
31:34
Speaker 3: as in not developed. And they're going to do some
31:38
Speaker 3: habitat and some drought tolerance and fire tolerance work, and
31:43
Speaker 3: work on native species and work against noxious weeds and
31:46
Speaker 3: all those things that nrcs can do good good habitat work,
31:52
Speaker 3: providing perpetual ease months and keeping producing land producing while
31:59
Speaker 3: all also producing good habitat benefits.
32:02
Speaker 4: So that was great.
32:03
Speaker 3: I spoke with a bunch of folks in the Department
32:07
Speaker 3: of Agriculture on the topic of are we going to
32:12
Speaker 3: get a new farm bill and how can we help
32:17
Speaker 3: make that happen? Farm bill For everybody listening, it's not
32:22
Speaker 3: just for farmers like, there is a ton of conservation
32:26
Speaker 3: work that's balled up in the Farm Bill. Everybody thinks
32:30
Speaker 3: about CRP, but you also need to think about there's
32:36
Speaker 3: a private land hunting, private land public access program in there, and.
32:46
Speaker 4: More habitat work, more water development work.
32:49
Speaker 2: The EQUICK program is huge for getting cost share out
32:52
Speaker 2: there for habitat projects and technical expertise. Yeah, it's the
32:57
Speaker 2: biggest source of conservation dollars on a basis across the government.
33:03
Speaker 3: Huge, and it's getting long in the tooth. We're on
33:07
Speaker 3: our second extension and it needs to get updated and
33:12
Speaker 3: put into some more modern terms here, so super interested
33:18
Speaker 3: in that. Everybody listening should be interested in that, and
33:23
Speaker 3: you know, we'll do our follow ups and see what
33:25
Speaker 3: we can provide more information wise. Brings us to a
33:30
Speaker 3: next point. It's great to walk into somebody's office and say, hey,
33:34
Speaker 3: love your position on this, thank you so much for
33:37
Speaker 3: making it happen, which we did with Senator Danes and
33:42
Speaker 3: Danes's office, he has stepped in and been a big
33:47
Speaker 3: proponent of getting cash authorized for the VPA hip program,
33:54
Speaker 3: which is something that's buried within the Farm Bill. But
33:58
Speaker 3: that's a good access program and dollars for these private producers.
34:04
Speaker 3: So thank you to Senator Danes on that one. And
34:08
Speaker 3: I met with Crapo's office, which would be Idaho, and
34:14
Speaker 3: same deal, talked about public Lands, just kind of laid
34:19
Speaker 3: some things out there, made them aware of.
34:23
Speaker 4: Who we are.
34:26
Speaker 3: It's probably a little unclear, but I was kind of
34:27
Speaker 3: wearing two hats. I was there as the North American
34:30
Speaker 3: board chair for back Country Hunters and Anglers, So I
34:33
Speaker 3: would talk about our network of chapters, our diverse membership,
34:40
Speaker 3: how we're broken down politically, which I just said is diverse.
34:46
Speaker 3: So we have a lot of Independents, a lot of Republicans,
34:48
Speaker 3: a lot of Democrats, and it were hard to pin down,
34:53
Speaker 3: which is great. So we lean quite a bit independent,
34:58
Speaker 3: and we're right across all fifty states, and you know,
35:03
Speaker 3: our membership's just a little over north of thirty thousand,
35:06
Speaker 3: but it's growing like crazy right now, with you know,
35:11
Speaker 3: public Lands being so squarely in the headlines. It's kind
35:14
Speaker 3: of waking folks up again. So if you're not a
35:17
Speaker 3: member of BHA, please become a member of BHA. And
35:20
Speaker 3: I'll tell you why over and over again. But it's
35:24
Speaker 3: so you can have somebody in the room advocating for
35:27
Speaker 3: things like this, and then on the other side of
35:31
Speaker 3: my head, my bald head, I was representing meat Eater
35:35
Speaker 3: as the director of conservation and the fact that we
35:40
Speaker 3: have a office of business in four states. We have
35:46
Speaker 3: Phelps in Washington, Dave Smith Decoys in Oregon, First Light
35:49
Speaker 3: in Idaho, Meat Eater, and FHF based right here in
35:53
Speaker 3: bos Angeles, and we depend on public lands, public wall,
36:00
Speaker 3: public wildlife, and access to those things in order to
36:05
Speaker 3: sustain our business. And even going all the way back
36:09
Speaker 3: to like early days first Light sales, it wasn't just
36:14
Speaker 3: people in Idaho buying our gear, as people from all
36:18
Speaker 3: across the US, and their dream, if not reality, is
36:25
Speaker 3: to buy this stuff and wear it when they're when
36:28
Speaker 3: they're hunting or fishing or exploring our public lands and
36:32
Speaker 3: public waters in pursuit of public wildlife. And then I
36:37
Speaker 3: would throw some some business stats at them, how big
36:40
Speaker 3: our reach is, our podcast network, how many people we
36:43
Speaker 3: talk to, how many how much feedback we get get
36:47
Speaker 3: back from the outdoor population here in the United States,
36:52
Speaker 3: And you know, drive home the fact that even though
36:58
Speaker 3: some recent headlines have said, had oh Western states love
37:02
Speaker 3: public land or just Montana loves public land. That's not
37:07
Speaker 3: what our data says. Yeah, this is a national issue
37:11
Speaker 3: and we need you to stand firm on this because
37:14
Speaker 3: if you don't, you're going to be on the wrong side.
37:19
Speaker 3: So that was Crapo's office, and then I met with
37:28
Speaker 3: Senator Kramer's office. Can't remember what day that was at
37:33
Speaker 3: this point over there in North Dakota, And you know,
37:37
Speaker 3: I had a great conversation over there. Lots of overlap.
37:42
Speaker 3: Senator Kramer's done a lot of good things for national
37:45
Speaker 3: parks and we need to see that kind of same
37:51
Speaker 3: passion on just the regular old public land side of things.
37:56
Speaker 3: And had had a good, good conversation over there, but
38:02
Speaker 3: need to follow up.
38:03
Speaker 4: And then.
38:07
Speaker 3: Had the TRCP dinner that night. And so the Teddy
38:11
Speaker 3: Roosevelt Conservation Partnership of which Steve is well, Steven Ronelle
38:16
Speaker 3: is a board member, and he likes to host that
38:19
Speaker 3: thing mc it.
38:20
Speaker 2: Does he like to or does he get roped into it?
38:24
Speaker 3: I think he likes to do it because you know,
38:28
Speaker 3: when you're on a board, as you know, everybody kind
38:32
Speaker 3: of has their strengths and you want to play to
38:37
Speaker 3: those strengths when you volunteer. And so This is like
38:40
Speaker 3: one of the ways that Steve gets to publicly volunteer
38:45
Speaker 3: for the conservation organization that he sits on the board with.
38:50
Speaker 2: It's a good point. He does a good job. He
38:53
Speaker 2: did a good job. You and I got to kick
38:56
Speaker 2: back and enjoy our dinner while while poor Steve was
38:59
Speaker 2: up there working the room.
39:01
Speaker 4: Yep, yeah exactly.
39:05
Speaker 3: But that room is so they always give one of
39:12
Speaker 3: the Capital Conservation awards to a Democrat, a Republican, and then.
39:21
Speaker 4: Uh someone in in.
39:23
Speaker 3: In the field that's probably not an elected representative. And
39:30
Speaker 3: so it's a really good diverse room. There's lots of
39:33
Speaker 3: different organizations present. There's lots of lobbying groups present. There's
39:40
Speaker 3: lots of newly confirmed for for this year anyway, positions
39:48
Speaker 3: of leaders leadership. The Chief of the Forest Service was there.
39:52
Speaker 4: I did not get.
39:53
Speaker 3: A chance to talk with mister Schultz there. I really
39:57
Speaker 3: would have liked that. Lots of kind of movers and shakers.
40:04
Speaker 3: So when you're in that room, your you know, your
40:09
Speaker 3: job is is really to have those conversations, introduce yourself,
40:14
Speaker 3: speak to people, say hey, you know, thanks for joining
40:20
Speaker 3: the civil service. Being the chief of the Forest Service.
40:25
Speaker 3: These are the things that really matter to us. I'd
40:27
Speaker 3: love to sit down and talk with you more about
40:28
Speaker 3: it later, try to get a meeting that way, at
40:32
Speaker 3: least make the introduction. And it's also a great information
40:38
Speaker 3: gossip circle, especially if folks get a little couple of
40:41
Speaker 3: cocktails in.
40:42
Speaker 2: Them and start getting the real scoop.
40:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can hear like, well, what are you hearing
40:47
Speaker 3: and what's happening on this topic and the topic reconciliation
40:52
Speaker 3: and it it does matter, And.
40:58
Speaker 2: You hear about this networking bus word right, And that's
41:01
Speaker 2: one of those things they say in business or whatever.
41:04
Speaker 2: You got a network, You got a network. But man,
41:07
Speaker 2: it's it's so true that oftentimes relationships and who you
41:11
Speaker 2: know or if you know this person, that stuff matters
41:14
Speaker 2: even in this world too, just with you know, having
41:17
Speaker 2: someone you can call who might know the guy who
41:19
Speaker 2: understands what's actually happening, or might know the woman who
41:22
Speaker 2: can get you up, you know, some face time with
41:25
Speaker 2: such and such persons. So yeah, an event like that
41:27
Speaker 2: awards dinner is about as good as you can get.
41:30
Speaker 2: And I'm sure the du dinner the night before was similar.
41:33
Speaker 2: Just being around people who are involved with the decision
41:37
Speaker 2: making that impacts our public LANs and wildlife and all
41:41
Speaker 2: those people in that room have you know, really really
41:46
Speaker 2: important touch points to those things. So, just like you,
41:50
Speaker 2: it was all about talking to as many people as
41:52
Speaker 2: you can, building those connections because you never know when
41:55
Speaker 2: there might be when there might be cause to give
41:58
Speaker 2: that person a call or also, you know, making sure
42:01
Speaker 2: that people know that you're available, right. That was a
42:02
Speaker 2: big thing for me too. I was talking to folks
42:05
Speaker 2: in different organizations and you'd figure out, oh, we care
42:07
Speaker 2: about some similar things, or there might be something that
42:10
Speaker 2: I could do to help them out that I would
42:12
Speaker 2: like to help with that I never knew about. So
42:15
Speaker 2: lots of stuff kind of comes out of those random
42:18
Speaker 2: meetings at an event like that, And I think that
42:22
Speaker 2: for anyone listening, there's going to be like local versions
42:26
Speaker 2: of that, whether it's like a BHA pint night or
42:29
Speaker 2: a Ducks Unlimited banquet or a volunteer event with a
42:34
Speaker 2: state game agency, like any one of those events is
42:37
Speaker 2: worth being at because of that community you might be
42:41
Speaker 2: able to build, because of those connections you might need,
42:44
Speaker 2: you might be able to foster that who knows, might
42:46
Speaker 2: help you someday down the road, whether it be you
42:49
Speaker 2: know as an advocate for these places or who knows what?
42:53
Speaker 3: Oh, and I mean if we're thinking, we're talking really
42:56
Speaker 3: about something that's huge, right, We're talking about the National
42:59
Speaker 3: Day and the idea that our federally managed lands could
43:04
Speaker 3: be sold in order to somehow satiate the national debt somehow.
43:13
Speaker 3: It's going to take a broad, diverse coalition of people
43:18
Speaker 3: to get on the same page and kind of have
43:21
Speaker 3: the same language and make the same statement, No, this
43:27
Speaker 3: is not.
43:27
Speaker 4: Going to do it. What else you got?
43:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't you think having these lands working on our
43:34
Speaker 3: behalf is going to pay more dividends in the long
43:37
Speaker 3: run than selling them right now and never getting them back.
43:41
Speaker 4: Things like that.
43:42
Speaker 3: So yeah, you know, talking with those folks that aren't
43:49
Speaker 3: in the hook and bullet community and letting them know that, yeah,
43:52
Speaker 3: you're available. We're absolutely on the same page, like very
43:58
Speaker 3: very valuable.
44:00
Speaker 4: And you know, just like you and I do. Folks
44:04
Speaker 4: listening do when.
44:07
Speaker 3: You know, like I see somebody in a three piece
44:11
Speaker 3: suit and fancy shoes with you know, those no sock
44:15
Speaker 3: thing that's going around, you know, I'm like, oh, this
44:18
Speaker 3: person's not necessarily one of my folks. How are we
44:23
Speaker 3: going to handle this? I see somebody coming in a
44:27
Speaker 3: plaid shirt, jeans and flip flops. It's an easy approach,
44:33
Speaker 3: it's an easy conversation. You know, folks in DC are
44:38
Speaker 3: the exact exact same, So when they know your name,
44:47
Speaker 3: when when anybody knows somebody's name, they're eighty percent more
44:52
Speaker 3: likely to open that email instead of blow right past it.
44:56
Speaker 3: This So you got to make these connections. You got
44:59
Speaker 3: to reach out to folks that don't look like you,
45:02
Speaker 3: act like you, dress like you, and say, yeah, this
45:06
Speaker 3: is this is where we overlap. We'd love to work
45:09
Speaker 3: with you on this. And my point also is you
45:14
Speaker 3: may not divulge as much to somebody who visibly doesn't
45:23
Speaker 3: look like they care about the same stuff you do.
45:27
Speaker 3: So when you're in these gossip circles, you can be like, oh,
45:31
Speaker 3: that's interesting. I met with them today too, and they
45:35
Speaker 3: actually told me this. And if you and I are
45:40
Speaker 3: on the same page on this public lands thing, I
45:43
Speaker 3: have no problem sharing that with you. And I had
45:47
Speaker 3: several versions of that conversation last week, and you know
45:52
Speaker 3: I'm here to win on this public lands deal.
45:54
Speaker 4: So.
45:56
Speaker 2: Whatever it takes. Yeah, So cal out of all these
46:11
Speaker 2: conversations and you had you know, all these various dinners
46:14
Speaker 2: and press conferences and then the office visits, like we
46:17
Speaker 2: were just discussing, you know, I had a few things
46:23
Speaker 2: that stood out to me as far as like high
46:26
Speaker 2: level takeaways or I guess lessons or vibes that I
46:30
Speaker 2: kind of picked up. And I'm curious if you felt
46:32
Speaker 2: anything similar. But one of the things that was a
46:37
Speaker 2: this was a little bit more personal for me, less
46:39
Speaker 2: so probably for you. But going and doing this, this
46:42
Speaker 2: is my first set of hill visits like this. I
46:45
Speaker 2: came out of it much more confident in my ability
46:48
Speaker 2: to do more of that kind of thing. I think
46:50
Speaker 2: before you go into this, there's a certain level of
46:52
Speaker 2: intimidation or this idea like, oh gosh, this is going
46:56
Speaker 2: to be like an interrogation. You're going to go in
46:59
Speaker 2: there and they're going to be like arguing with you
47:02
Speaker 2: or trying to make you feel stupid, or you know,
47:05
Speaker 2: it could be confrontational in some kind of way. And
47:07
Speaker 2: every one of these meetings was was so far from that.
47:10
Speaker 2: All of these were much more low key than maybe
47:13
Speaker 2: the average person thinks. This is literally showing up walking
47:18
Speaker 2: into an office saying, hey, I'm here to see Kate
47:21
Speaker 2: and sitting down for a nice chat, and they all
47:26
Speaker 2: you know, were polite, interested, maybe ask a few follow
47:30
Speaker 2: up questions. In every single one of these meetings, I
47:32
Speaker 2: generally felt like I knew more or just as much as,
47:36
Speaker 2: if not more than they did about these issues. I
47:38
Speaker 2: came in, We came in as the subject matter experts.
47:41
Speaker 2: And I think most anyone who's into this kind of
47:44
Speaker 2: stuff and wanted to make a phone call like this
47:47
Speaker 2: or go in person to a state capital or the
47:49
Speaker 2: nation's capital or whatever it might be, they're probably going
47:52
Speaker 2: to be in a similar boat because again, like we
47:54
Speaker 2: talked about the beginning, we're meeting with staffers. We are
47:58
Speaker 2: not meeting with the you know, secretary of the interior
48:01
Speaker 2: or something in most cases who is entrenched in these things.
48:04
Speaker 2: So you can go into this again feeling pretty confident
48:08
Speaker 2: that you know what you're talking about. This is your issue,
48:10
Speaker 2: this is your passion project. And so this was a
48:13
Speaker 2: great reminder, and what I want to pass on to
48:15
Speaker 2: people listening is that, you know, do not feel like
48:18
Speaker 2: this is above you or beyond your capabilities. If you
48:21
Speaker 2: care about this stuff enough to listen to a podcast
48:24
Speaker 2: like this, you are probably armed and ready to go
48:27
Speaker 2: and have a chat like this with someone in one
48:29
Speaker 2: of these offices. So that's number one and number two,
48:34
Speaker 2: And this is something that I'm I think that you
48:36
Speaker 2: heard as well. But from the outside looking in, over
48:40
Speaker 2: the last handful of months, I think a lot of
48:42
Speaker 2: us have said like, oh wow, this feels crazy right now,
48:46
Speaker 2: this moment feels unprecedented. There's been a lot of that
48:49
Speaker 2: kind of terminology thrown around the news, and I felt
48:52
Speaker 2: that way myself. What was interesting was that I was
48:55
Speaker 2: hearing that from people in these offices too, So this
48:59
Speaker 2: wasn't just like an outside Oh it seems crazy from
49:02
Speaker 2: the outside. Everyone on the inside said the same thing,
49:05
Speaker 2: both sides of they all too. This was I was
49:07
Speaker 2: hearing this from Republicans and Democrats, things like everything's so
49:12
Speaker 2: uncertain right now, this is wild, this is unprecedented. Anything
49:17
Speaker 2: seems possible, nothing's off the table. Oh I thought this
49:21
Speaker 2: kind of thing would never be possible, but now anything is.
49:24
Speaker 2: I heard so many versions of that from many different
49:27
Speaker 2: people that, again, I think, just shines a spotlet on
49:31
Speaker 2: how important what we're talking about right now is. Because
49:35
Speaker 2: if anything's possible, then these issues that we care about,
49:39
Speaker 2: it's more important than ever to make sure that we're
49:41
Speaker 2: on the right side of them. So anything else for
49:44
Speaker 2: you stand out from all your conversations, or was there
49:48
Speaker 2: a big like consistent through line across the border or
49:51
Speaker 2: anything else for you.
49:53
Speaker 3: We definitely heard a lot of I mean, I'll definitely
49:58
Speaker 3: back you up on that. There's a great quote of
50:05
Speaker 3: and this is coming coming from a senior policy person
50:11
Speaker 3: in a Republican office saying, Uh, guys, I'll be honest
50:16
Speaker 3: with you. Trump has been really shaking the snow globe here.
50:22
Speaker 3: Our job is not easy right now, and you may
50:26
Speaker 3: have more information than than we do on some of
50:29
Speaker 3: this stuff. So that is interesting. And I will tell
50:36
Speaker 3: you and the listeners past administrations, including Trump's first term,
50:47
Speaker 3: there was way more information and way more access purposely
50:53
Speaker 3: coming out of the administration to get people on the
50:57
Speaker 3: same page, get them informed early so they can be
51:02
Speaker 3: prepared for to make next steps. That is largely not
51:09
Speaker 3: going on. It's it's kind of stealed rooms at the
51:14
Speaker 3: top top. And just from my experience, I did notice
51:24
Speaker 3: a lot of people who are way more informed paid
51:30
Speaker 3: to be way more informed than I am, taking real
51:35
Speaker 3: notes of what I was saying. After recapping a meeting
51:40
Speaker 3: because as we've already discussed, like different communicators get different
51:48
Speaker 3: information and slightly different versions and different levels of access,
51:55
Speaker 3: and that could be based off of that representative or
52:00
Speaker 3: to offfer just being tired and later in the day,
52:04
Speaker 3: or they're more energized and earlier in the day, or
52:10
Speaker 3: you know them or their family member, or you have
52:16
Speaker 3: some sort of a personal connection to a place or
52:21
Speaker 3: resource or something that connects with them and they go,
52:24
Speaker 3: all right, I got to tell you what's going on.
52:29
Speaker 3: So it is an interesting time. I will say that.
52:35
Speaker 3: I would say one of the other themes that we
52:41
Speaker 3: heard was working in a bipartisan manner, trying to work
52:51
Speaker 3: across the aisle. And we definitely saw this in Trump's
52:57
Speaker 3: first administration, where things kind of deadlocked after midterms, and
53:04
Speaker 3: you know, really the things that moved were the outdoor bills,
53:10
Speaker 3: like positive things because those are largely nonpartisan issues and
53:16
Speaker 3: folks want to get some stuff done and get some wins.
53:19
Speaker 3: And there's a lot of that talk going on right
53:21
Speaker 3: now too, which is like, yeah, we are working Zinky,
53:27
Speaker 3: working with Gabe Vasquez, Congressman Vasquez out of New Mexico,
53:33
Speaker 3: Danes making some positive statements on some some Democrat led things.
53:40
Speaker 3: Heinrich may making some great statements. Heinrich, a Democrat of
53:43
Speaker 3: New Mexico, making some some very positive statements about Danes
53:50
Speaker 3: and and Zinki as well.
53:54
Speaker 2: So you know something that yeah, speaking of that, something
53:59
Speaker 2: that I just was remind kind of which I hadn't
54:02
Speaker 2: heard as much about in recent months, but it was
54:04
Speaker 2: nice to hear. When you and I sat down with
54:07
Speaker 2: Senator Heinrich and you guys were recording that podcast. One
54:12
Speaker 2: thing he mentioned that I was really excited about was
54:14
Speaker 2: that he is definitely feeling bullish about the prospects of
54:18
Speaker 2: getting recovering America's Wildlife Act, you know, reintroduced and pushed
54:23
Speaker 2: forward again in this Congress, and that there was energy
54:26
Speaker 2: from both sides of the aisle again supposedly, and that's
54:29
Speaker 2: something that again would be a really important funding source
54:33
Speaker 2: for state wildlife agencies and their wildlife management plans. So
54:38
Speaker 2: you mentioned the Endangered Species Act earlier and how that's
54:42
Speaker 2: something that gets a lot of people really fired up.
54:44
Speaker 2: That's kind of like an emergency room for wildlife. Well,
54:48
Speaker 2: REIWA would be, you know, as Senator Heinrich said, is
54:51
Speaker 2: more like the primary care So like that's where we
54:53
Speaker 2: can deal with wildlife issues before they're at serious risk
54:56
Speaker 2: of death or in this case, you know, extinction species wide.
55:00
Speaker 2: So that's a bipartisan one right there. That would be
55:03
Speaker 2: a huge win if we could somehow get that to
55:06
Speaker 2: move forward at this time, given all the other things
55:09
Speaker 2: and cuts being met other places, I think that securing
55:12
Speaker 2: some kind of funding like this for wildlife would be
55:16
Speaker 2: really important. And then the one other thing I'll add
55:20
Speaker 2: on that front was that on my first day there,
55:23
Speaker 2: you had I think your press conference and stuff like
55:26
Speaker 2: that during the TRCP Joint Corporate Council and Policy meeting,
55:31
Speaker 2: and that was something that I did attend. And during
55:34
Speaker 2: that we basically had a bunch of representatives from conservation
55:37
Speaker 2: organizations and from the hunting and fishing industry, so representatives
55:42
Speaker 2: from companies, and then we were all meeting together with
55:46
Speaker 2: a number of different speakers talking about issues impacting hunting
55:49
Speaker 2: and fishing and conservation and all the stuff going on
55:53
Speaker 2: with the current administration and politics and ramifications for hunting
55:57
Speaker 2: and fishing and public lands, YadA YadA. One big stand
56:01
Speaker 2: up point there too was just what you said, which
56:03
Speaker 2: was the importance of trying to have a non partisan
56:07
Speaker 2: angle on this because you know, there certainly are things
56:13
Speaker 2: coming out right now that most of us would say
56:16
Speaker 2: is not good for hunting or fishing or wildlife for
56:18
Speaker 2: public lands. Right. But if all you ever do is
56:21
Speaker 2: scream bloody murder about those things and villainize the administration
56:26
Speaker 2: for all that, you would never have an opportunity to
56:28
Speaker 2: work with them on anything good too, or to establish
56:31
Speaker 2: communications or to help, you know, inform these people about
56:34
Speaker 2: different ways to think about things. And so a key
56:37
Speaker 2: theme of the TIERCP meeting was how do we address
56:40
Speaker 2: these issues in a way that's good for hunting and
56:42
Speaker 2: fishing and wildlife and public lands, but at the same
56:45
Speaker 2: time gives us an opportunity still to have influence with
56:49
Speaker 2: whoever is that the is at the levers these days,
56:53
Speaker 2: no matter if it's a democratic administration or Republican administration.
56:57
Speaker 2: We want our issues to be at the table. We
57:00
Speaker 2: want our voices to be heard. So, you know, I
57:03
Speaker 2: think that's an important thing. Whether you are an individual
57:06
Speaker 2: or a conservation organization or a larger group like the TRCP,
57:11
Speaker 2: or a business that's thinking about how to engage in
57:13
Speaker 2: this stuff, I at least certainly think that you can
57:17
Speaker 2: be more effective for the things you care about. If
57:20
Speaker 2: you simply say, hey, I'm going to work with whoever.
57:22
Speaker 2: I don't care who's doing things. Let's just make sure
57:25
Speaker 2: we are being heard, and then we have some ability
57:28
Speaker 2: to have some kind of influence to move you know,
57:31
Speaker 2: maybe it's five yards down the football field right now.
57:34
Speaker 2: That's certainly much better than going twenty yards backwards. And
57:38
Speaker 2: you have no chance to do that at all if
57:40
Speaker 2: you are not even in the rooms and not even
57:42
Speaker 2: having your phone calls answered or your emails read or
57:46
Speaker 2: whatever it is. So that really stood out to me.
57:49
Speaker 2: And you know, coming out of this, you know, handful
57:53
Speaker 2: of days there, I guess it gives me maybe a
57:56
Speaker 2: little bit more hope that those kinds of things are
57:58
Speaker 2: possible because there was, you know, some degree of talking
58:02
Speaker 2: about it. So I don't know, I certainly hope that
58:05
Speaker 2: there's more momentum there to be had.
58:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd hope as well. And you know, it's just
58:11
Speaker 3: a consistency game, right. You can't let people think that
58:19
Speaker 3: you're going to ease up or this is no longer
58:22
Speaker 3: an issue, because there's always issues popping up and there's
58:26
Speaker 3: so many things that will fill that space if you
58:31
Speaker 3: aren't being consistent on these asks or educational moments or
58:40
Speaker 3: whatever you want to call them.
58:41
Speaker 1: You know, So.
58:43
Speaker 2: That was the single biggest thing, and started jumping on
58:46
Speaker 2: you again, kill But the biggest eye opener, like the
58:49
Speaker 2: biggest takeaway from my entire visit was this. It was
58:52
Speaker 2: walking through the hallways of the Senate office buildings and
58:56
Speaker 2: the House office buildings, and especially saw on the House
59:00
Speaker 2: side there were just hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of
59:05
Speaker 2: people all walking around these same hallways as you and
59:08
Speaker 2: I were flooding all of these offices with their own
59:12
Speaker 2: issues and with their own pet causes and with their
59:14
Speaker 2: own concerns. I mean, there were thousands of other people,
59:18
Speaker 2: and I'm sure this is happening every single day, day
59:20
Speaker 2: after day after day, talking to these elected officials about Hey,
59:24
Speaker 2: pay attention to this, Hey, listen to me on this.
59:26
Speaker 2: Hey be careful about this. Hey watch out for this.
59:28
Speaker 2: Hey please advocate for this. Hey a b CD e
59:31
Speaker 2: FG right. They're getting it from Sony different angles on
59:36
Speaker 2: so many different issues that you know, any one single
59:40
Speaker 2: phone call, any one single meeting, it's going to get
59:44
Speaker 2: lost in the noise. It has to be, you know,
59:47
Speaker 2: to move the needle on this kind of stuff. I
59:50
Speaker 2: this like just I knew it intellectually, but it became
59:53
Speaker 2: like real in a tangible way after seeing this. It's
59:56
Speaker 2: like you have to be doing this over and over
59:59
Speaker 2: and over again, and with so many different people doing
1:00:02
Speaker 2: it from so many different angles, all kind of beating
1:00:05
Speaker 2: the drum for the same cause, and only in that
1:00:08
Speaker 2: kind of way. Like if you if you imagine like
1:00:11
Speaker 2: a snowball, like what you and I did the other
1:00:13
Speaker 2: day was we got a little snowball kind of rolling
1:00:16
Speaker 2: down a hill, and then someone later in the day
1:00:17
Speaker 2: was hopefully going to take that same snowball and keep
1:00:19
Speaker 2: rolling it down the hill, so it got a little
1:00:21
Speaker 2: bit bigger, and the next day, the hope is that
1:00:23
Speaker 2: there was somebody else there from another similar organization who's
1:00:26
Speaker 2: rolling that snowball a little bit more, and it gets
1:00:27
Speaker 2: bigger and bigger, and over days and weeks and months
1:00:31
Speaker 2: and years, you finally break through the noise and people
1:00:34
Speaker 2: can't ignore you anymore, or you stand out above all
1:00:38
Speaker 2: of these other things. It just seems like this is
1:00:44
Speaker 2: this is even more I don't want to say daunting,
1:00:48
Speaker 2: because daunting sounds disheartening, but this requires all of us,
1:00:54
Speaker 2: This really requires all of us. And it's not something
1:00:56
Speaker 2: we're going to solve with one thing. It's it's just
1:01:00
Speaker 2: one straw on the camel's back and you just got
1:01:03
Speaker 2: to keep on stacking them. And that was my big takeaway.
1:01:06
Speaker 2: I realized like, oh wow, this can't be a one
1:01:08
Speaker 2: time thing. I'm going to have to come again, and
1:01:10
Speaker 2: I have to come again. And actually, when I was
1:01:12
Speaker 2: in the airport flying home, I called my representative because
1:01:15
Speaker 2: I'd wanted to stop in his office and we didn't
1:01:18
Speaker 2: get to. So I left a voicemail and said, Hey,
1:01:19
Speaker 2: I was just walking by your office earlier today wasn't
1:01:23
Speaker 2: able to stop, and but hey, want to remind you
1:01:24
Speaker 2: about AB and C and and something you said to
1:01:27
Speaker 2: me earlier this year cal on this issue was that
1:01:33
Speaker 2: we should be making plans to check in with our
1:01:35
Speaker 2: elected officials on a weekly basis. And I remember thinking, like, WHOA,
1:01:38
Speaker 2: I'm not doing it that much. I thought I was
1:01:42
Speaker 2: annoying with how many times I was emailing or leaving voicemails.
1:01:46
Speaker 2: But now I realized that you weren't kidding. We really
1:01:49
Speaker 2: do need to ramp it up. Whatever level you're at,
1:01:52
Speaker 2: it's you got to go up another level. If we
1:01:54
Speaker 2: want to stand out in this moment. I saw a
1:01:58
Speaker 2: whole lot of folks walking around with last week killer.
1:02:02
Speaker 2: We got to make sure that somehow our folders are
1:02:04
Speaker 2: a little bit more attention worthy, is what I'm trying
1:02:07
Speaker 2: to say.
1:02:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, and man, trying to get across it's not a
1:02:16
Speaker 3: trope cliche.
1:02:20
Speaker 2: Thing.
1:02:20
Speaker 3: It's like everybody does have a voice, and people are
1:02:26
Speaker 3: checking those boxes. Right. So when we go into an
1:02:31
Speaker 3: office and we talk about managing for fire, they're like, oh, okay, yeah,
1:02:39
Speaker 3: you guys know your stuff, and that's that's great. A
1:02:45
Speaker 3: couple of hunting guys don't really understand what you do.
1:02:50
Speaker 4: Podcast people cool.
1:02:54
Speaker 3: They need to hear that from a couple of dudes
1:02:59
Speaker 3: who are like, yeah, hey, we're plumbers in you know,
1:03:03
Speaker 3: the Gallatin Valley making money hand over fist right now
1:03:07
Speaker 3: with the crazy housing boom. What we do with our cash.
1:03:12
Speaker 3: The only reason that we suffer through being on call
1:03:15
Speaker 3: and working crazy hours and going from job to job
1:03:19
Speaker 3: to job is because we want to hunt. And good
1:03:24
Speaker 3: fire management provides excellent hunting opportunity.
1:03:27
Speaker 4: This is super important.
1:03:29
Speaker 3: And you know, like the law and care people and
1:03:33
Speaker 3: every single order of society, right, like, hey, I'm a
1:03:40
Speaker 3: childcare specialist. This is what I do. I work in
1:03:43
Speaker 3: the hospital. All everybody has a voice. And by making
1:03:49
Speaker 3: these phone calls and emails and visits, pretty soon like
1:03:55
Speaker 3: that spreadsheet of interests is going to be filled out.
1:04:00
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be like Jesus.
1:04:02
Speaker 3: People are spending a lot of their own time, own
1:04:04
Speaker 3: money to get here or make a phone caller or
1:04:08
Speaker 3: write an email, and they're coming from all walks of life,
1:04:11
Speaker 3: and they're all basically saying the same thing. I should
1:04:15
Speaker 3: probably think really carefully before we sell off public land
1:04:19
Speaker 3: or we don't sign on to this bill.
1:04:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll give one encouraging anecdote on that front. When
1:04:29
Speaker 2: you and I were going to visit with a Senator
1:04:31
Speaker 2: Risch's office there from Idaho, you had to bounce for
1:04:35
Speaker 2: the Zincy podcast, and so I took that meeting on
1:04:37
Speaker 2: my own. And something that stood out is I kind
1:04:40
Speaker 2: of gave the I kind of ran through our bit
1:04:43
Speaker 2: talking about the importance of public lands and you know,
1:04:46
Speaker 2: the value that they provide to hunters and anglers and
1:04:49
Speaker 2: our community and our business audience and all these different things.
1:04:52
Speaker 2: And I made some kind of line or kind of
1:04:55
Speaker 2: common at the end, just something on the lines of you,
1:04:58
Speaker 2: I hope you've heard something like that from many other people.
1:05:01
Speaker 2: And she stopped and she's like, oh, trust me, we
1:05:05
Speaker 2: have heard this from a lot of people lately. So
1:05:09
Speaker 2: she looked over like there was an intern with her
1:05:11
Speaker 2: and like they kind of looked at eyes. So I
1:05:13
Speaker 2: feel like we are not alone in this right now,
1:05:15
Speaker 2: like there has been a lot of that. And you know,
1:05:18
Speaker 2: a good example, this is what there were several different
1:05:23
Speaker 2: groups of conservation organizations. They are around the same time
1:05:26
Speaker 2: that we were, so like the outdoor industry like not
1:05:29
Speaker 2: hooking Bullet, but more of like your ARII crowd, the
1:05:32
Speaker 2: Outdoor Industry Association and the Outdoor Recreation Roundtable, a bunch
1:05:36
Speaker 2: of these groups that bring together those industries. I know
1:05:39
Speaker 2: that they were there in town recently around the same time,
1:05:42
Speaker 2: probably talking about some of these same things. So you know,
1:05:44
Speaker 2: when we work across the board in that kind of way,
1:05:47
Speaker 2: it's it's good. It's gonna do just like what you said,
1:05:51
Speaker 2: spread our message from many different angles to the point
1:05:54
Speaker 2: it's it's undeniable. You can't ignore it anymore.
1:05:57
Speaker 3: When that happens, that's right, that's right. So we got
1:06:02
Speaker 3: to just keep on keep on trucking, all right, have
1:06:12
Speaker 3: a b h A meeting that I'm four minutes late for.
1:06:16
Speaker 2: On that note, then you better, you better get out
1:06:18
Speaker 2: of here. It's not as bad as the time I
1:06:20
Speaker 2: forgot to pick up my kid during our last podcast.
1:06:23
Speaker 3: So oh, I know, I know, But yeah, Mark, We're
1:06:26
Speaker 3: gonna do more of this. We're gonna, i think, hopefully
1:06:30
Speaker 3: get across to more people that just because we're a
1:06:34
Speaker 3: for profit business doesn't mean that we can't be in
1:06:37
Speaker 3: the business of advocating for our customers and ourselves and
1:06:45
Speaker 3: public lands, waters and wildlife access to them. And you
1:06:50
Speaker 3: know that brings a certain something to the table. And
1:06:53
Speaker 3: and when we do our jobs as volunteers for n
1:06:57
Speaker 3: d A or b h A, that brings us certain
1:07:00
Speaker 3: something to the table. And then our personal experiences bring
1:07:03
Speaker 3: a certain something to the table.
1:07:05
Speaker 4: And I have no doubt.
1:07:08
Speaker 3: Even if we made zero impact last week, that what
1:07:16
Speaker 3: we're doing advocating for these things matters. And even if
1:07:22
Speaker 3: it made zero impact, we did get her foot in
1:07:24
Speaker 3: the door. We got on a first name basis with
1:07:27
Speaker 3: some folks. We got to follow up and our next
1:07:31
Speaker 3: trip or next round of emails or phone calls is
1:07:35
Speaker 3: going to carry a little more weight.
1:07:38
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we're gonna keep on pushing that snowball down the hill.
1:07:41
Speaker 2: And I'm glad you're you're there right there alongside me
1:07:44
Speaker 2: doing a kill.
1:07:44
Speaker 3: Thank you, No, buddy, man, you're you're leading the charge.
1:07:47
Speaker 2: Man.
1:07:47
Speaker 4: I love love the communication. You're you're you're crushing it.
1:07:52
Speaker 3: So if folks have anything to ask old Mark Kenyon,
1:07:57
Speaker 3: ask him yourself, go over listen to his podcast. If
1:08:00
Speaker 3: you really need to, you can write me.
1:08:02
Speaker 4: At ask c Al that's Askkal at the meeater dot com.
1:08:05
Speaker 3: Let me know what's going on in your neck of
1:08:07
Speaker 3: the woods. And uh, you know, I like hearing that.
1:08:11
Speaker 4: I'll get back here.
1:08:12
Speaker 2: And if you're listening to this on Wired to Hunt,
1:08:14
Speaker 2: make sure you go over to Cal's Week in Review,
1:08:17
Speaker 2: subscribe to his podcast, set him an email, do all
1:08:20
Speaker 2: those things you just said, and get your weekly dose
1:08:23
Speaker 2: of conservation news and whatnot for mister Ryan Cale here.
1:08:28
Speaker 4: Thanks a bunch. We'll talk to you next week.
1:08:35
Speaker 2: All right, And that's a wrap for our episode. Thank
1:08:38
Speaker 2: you for tuning in to this special joint meeting of
1:08:42
Speaker 2: the minds with me and Cal discussing our DC trip.
1:08:45
Speaker 2: Hopefully that was eye opening for you and insightful and
1:08:49
Speaker 2: like we said there at the end, please subscribe to
1:08:51
Speaker 2: Cale's podcast. Tune into him every week, Subscribe to this
1:08:54
Speaker 2: podcast if you haven't yet, and uh until next week.
1:08:59
Speaker 2: Thank you for being here, and stay wired to Hunt.