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#2090 Destination Disappointment - Harps & Tiff · The You Project

0:01
Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's Craig Anthony Harper. It's the
0:04
Speaker 1: nineteenth of the first, twenty twenty six. It's a Monday.
0:07
Speaker 1: It's the year as well. The new year is well underway.
0:12
Speaker 1: I'm very excited. Some things are happening. The wheels are turning.
0:15
Speaker 1: People are getting excited. Some people will have fallen off
0:18
Speaker 1: the wagon. Some people are still on the fucking wagon.
0:21
Speaker 1: Did you set any specific goals? Cook? Welcome Tiffany and Cook.
0:25
Speaker 1: Did you set any goals that just happened to line
0:28
Speaker 1: up with the new year?
0:30
Speaker 2: Or not?
0:31
Speaker 1: Really? Not really?
0:33
Speaker 2: Not really. I have a feel I feel like this
0:37
Speaker 2: year is going to be very different for me, just
0:40
Speaker 2: because I did the course last year and I know
0:43
Speaker 2: that it will be different. But I didn't set new goals.
0:46
Speaker 2: I kind of went, I wonder how this will unfold,
0:49
Speaker 2: And when I'm ready to switch back on for the year,
0:52
Speaker 2: I'll explore that.
0:54
Speaker 1: What percentage of people do you reckon? Are really good
0:56
Speaker 1: with structure and process and timeline and goals and to
1:00
Speaker 1: do list? And I feel like, like I say that
1:02
Speaker 1: shit all the time. Turn your idea into a plan, right,
1:05
Speaker 1: because an idea great, but it's not a plan. There's
1:08
Speaker 1: no structure, process, accountability, blah blah blah blah blah, and
1:11
Speaker 1: all of that makes sense. However, you know, SODA's not
1:15
Speaker 1: eating shit, but that doesn't work well for the population.
1:19
Speaker 1: SODA's not getting pissed a lot well for quite a percentage,
1:22
Speaker 1: that doesn't work, you know, not being a fuck with well,
1:25
Speaker 1: A few people struggle with that, including me. I feel
1:28
Speaker 1: like sometimes, you know, despite the alleged logic and strategy
1:36
Speaker 1: and critical thinking that comes out of my mouth, I
1:38
Speaker 1: say alleged, it almost doesn't matter. Like the quality of
1:44
Speaker 1: the advice, if we can call it that, or ideas
1:47
Speaker 1: or stories or messages or research or data that we
1:51
Speaker 1: share on this show is probably five percent ninety five
1:55
Speaker 1: percent is do people understand it? Do they will they
1:58
Speaker 1: do something with it? Will they keep doing something with it? Yeah,
2:02
Speaker 1: which makes me feel a little redundant sometimes, But you
2:07
Speaker 1: know you're going to keep You're going to keep like
2:10
Speaker 1: shout from the rooftops and just hope someone like I think,
2:13
Speaker 1: imagine this like I've literally saved a person's life, which
2:17
Speaker 1: is like, and I don't say that in a brag
2:20
Speaker 1: ghostly way, that's just part of my gene.
2:21
Speaker 2: Probably could you probably weren't saying that in braggy, boasty way.
2:25
Speaker 1: I would. Yeah, I don't mean that, but it's like, honestly,
2:28
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of cool shit. It's probably in
2:30
Speaker 1: the top two, maybe the top thing I've ever done,
2:34
Speaker 1: you know, my top two things in terms of just
2:36
Speaker 1: what I am very proud of. Not in a boasty way,
2:40
Speaker 1: but you know, saving the crabs life and working with
2:43
Speaker 1: Johnny for eight years, three days a week, blah blah blah.
2:47
Speaker 1: Who's who they said would never do anything. Right now,
2:50
Speaker 1: he's a fucking relative to what he was diagnosed or
2:55
Speaker 1: what they proposed he might be. He's a fucking weapon.
2:59
Speaker 1: But you know, so, I think if I have a
3:02
Speaker 1: podcast and I don't know how many times, but one person,
3:09
Speaker 1: it saves their life. Maybe not I save their life,
3:12
Speaker 1: but the story, the idea or the hope or the
3:16
Speaker 1: inspiration or the shift that happens in them. And then
3:20
Speaker 1: they go and do something, and then they get a result,
3:22
Speaker 1: then they get a bit excited, then they make another decision,
3:25
Speaker 1: they do more stuff, and then two years down the
3:28
Speaker 1: track they not me, not you, not asking, they have
3:32
Speaker 1: turned their life around. But it started with a moment
3:35
Speaker 1: in time and the moment in time was this show.
3:37
Speaker 1: And I've had you know, many people say to me,
3:41
Speaker 1: you or your show changed my life, and I always say,
3:45
Speaker 1: I didn't change your life. You did, but thank you
3:48
Speaker 1: that you took action on something. You know. So I
3:52
Speaker 1: guess my long winded question is is there any point
3:56
Speaker 1: in creating a plan, creating a structure, timeline, process, or
3:59
Speaker 1: that if the person's not genuinely three hundred ready to go.
4:07
Speaker 2: You remind me of the very first time you had
4:10
Speaker 2: me on typ SO twenty twenty sometime, and at the
4:14
Speaker 2: end of the conversation you said, if all goes well
4:17
Speaker 2: on Planet tifth in five years, what's next? And I hesitated,
4:22
Speaker 2: and then I remember saying, oh, you don't have to
4:24
Speaker 2: have something, and I was like, nah, I'm not going
4:27
Speaker 2: to because five minutes ago, I think sometimes a plan
4:30
Speaker 2: puts on blinkers because we're not sure, we're not curious
4:33
Speaker 2: about what we want to do, so we picked something,
4:35
Speaker 2: and then cognitive bias leads us down that path we
4:38
Speaker 2: miss everything else. Five minutes before that conversation, I was
4:42
Speaker 2: never going to be a podcaster. I owned gyms. I'm
4:44
Speaker 2: never going to be doing what I did, and it
4:47
Speaker 2: led me to this thing that I never knew I
4:49
Speaker 2: could do that opened up doors I never knew were closed.
4:53
Speaker 2: And so I think there's there's that part of things.
4:56
Speaker 2: But then there's also the idea that if you're not
4:58
Speaker 2: sure where you're going, you're going to go around in circles.
5:01
Speaker 2: So there's a bit of a catch twenty two on
5:03
Speaker 2: both ends, and it all comes down to what you
5:06
Speaker 2: research around self awareness.
5:09
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, one hundred percent. Also there's another interesting kind
5:12
Speaker 1: of parallel component to this. I don't know if this
5:18
Speaker 1: is a real term, but I coined this term maybe
5:21
Speaker 1: someone else did too, and it's a destination disappointment, which
5:26
Speaker 1: is when you get somewhere, Oh, you did the thing,
5:28
Speaker 1: you got, the thing, you achieved, the thing you made,
5:31
Speaker 1: the money, you wrote the book, or you fucking climbed
5:34
Speaker 1: the mountain, or you had the boxing experience or you whatever,
5:40
Speaker 1: and then you're like, oh, I still feel like shit,
5:42
Speaker 1: what's that about? Because you thought that thing would be
5:44
Speaker 1: the antidote to the malaise, the blidness that you found
5:51
Speaker 1: yourself in the middle of. And I mean I've had that,
5:54
Speaker 1: I've achieved great things and then you know relative but
5:58
Speaker 1: then not that it was bad, but I'm like, oh okay, Like,
6:02
Speaker 1: for example, I'm not fat anymore, I'm lean, I'm in
6:05
Speaker 1: very good shape, and but I still feel shit. So
6:09
Speaker 1: clearly that wasn't maybe that was part of the problem,
6:12
Speaker 1: But what else is going on? So I think trying
6:15
Speaker 1: to understand what it is I really need versus what
6:18
Speaker 1: I think I need?
6:21
Speaker 2: And then what did I get out of that thing?
6:23
Speaker 2: What was the thing that was drawing me in?
6:26
Speaker 1: Do you have it?
6:27
Speaker 2: Has that happened to you when you've gained an understanding
6:31
Speaker 2: straight away? Or how does your unpacking of that play out?
6:37
Speaker 1: Well, I've kind I've kind of gone down I was
6:39
Speaker 1: going to say all the past. Of course I haven't,
6:41
Speaker 1: but I've gone down there. If I look awesome, if
6:44
Speaker 1: I'm jacked, well that's going to make life pretty amazing,
6:48
Speaker 1: because you know, dudes will think I'm cool, women all
6:52
Speaker 1: think I'm just hot as fuck, and well, you know whatever.
6:56
Speaker 1: And clearly that thinking was coming out of you know,
7:01
Speaker 1: fucking one delusion two you know, insecurity, self doubt, fear,
7:07
Speaker 1: all of that stuff. But I just had I didn't
7:11
Speaker 1: think it would fix all my problems, but I thought
7:14
Speaker 1: it would do much more for my emotional and psychological
7:18
Speaker 1: wellbeing than it actually did, because I was, as I've
7:22
Speaker 1: said at least twenty times over the last eight years,
7:24
Speaker 1: but I was trying to resolve a psychological, emotional, and
7:27
Speaker 1: perhaps in my framework, spiritual problems with physical solutions. You know,
7:35
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, Wow, you've got really big arms and
7:37
Speaker 1: they're vany, and you've got big shoulders and you've got
7:39
Speaker 1: abs terrific. You're still a fucking idiot, but you're just
7:42
Speaker 1: in a better body and you're not dealing with the
7:46
Speaker 1: things that are making what's not making you healthy. Craig
7:50
Speaker 1: mentally and emotionally healthy is not the size of your
7:53
Speaker 1: fucking arms, you know. And it's trying to This is hard.
7:58
Speaker 1: This is trying to have real self awareness, no matter
8:03
Speaker 1: how painful it might be, at that moment of kind
8:07
Speaker 1: of enlightenment or awareness where you realize, oh, I'm just
8:13
Speaker 1: a big fucking baby who's scared of everything, you.
8:17
Speaker 2: Know, And what's the sacrifice of the thing that you're doing.
8:22
Speaker 2: When you think you're doing a thing that you need
8:24
Speaker 2: to do, what's the sacrifice of the life you need
8:28
Speaker 2: to live and the busyness you live in the middle
8:30
Speaker 2: of to maintain that perceived destination.
8:35
Speaker 1: Oh that is a very all haven't you gotten good
8:38
Speaker 1: since twenty twenty fucking drunk? All right, hey, kids, don't
8:43
Speaker 1: if there's any kids listening, don't talk like Uncle Jumbo
8:46
Speaker 1: is a hunt. Don't listen to him. Just as it's
8:51
Speaker 1: coming out in my mouth, I'm like, some first time,
8:54
Speaker 1: is it going to be like, oh my god, who
8:55
Speaker 1: is this man? I concur I agree? Okay, so yeah,
9:03
Speaker 1: what are you kind of giving up in the pursuit
9:05
Speaker 1: of this thing that you think you need but you
9:08
Speaker 1: actually don't need. Is that what you're saying?
9:10
Speaker 2: Yeah?
9:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Like when you're heading well, I think you're
9:13
Speaker 1: just you're just wasting time. It's not that being in
9:18
Speaker 1: shape is bad per my previous example, but when you're
9:23
Speaker 1: trying to you know, let's say the engine in your
9:26
Speaker 1: car's fucked and you keep pumping up the tires. You
9:29
Speaker 1: like that, Well, that well done on the tire pumping.
9:33
Speaker 1: You fuck with it, but the engine's fucked, so maybe
9:36
Speaker 1: open the bonnet. No, I'll just try the tires one
9:39
Speaker 1: more time. There no chance the engines fucked. It's not. Well,
9:43
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll polish the bumper bar.
9:46
Speaker 1: You know, you keep because you kind of I think
9:49
Speaker 1: you know, but you know that fixing the engine, Oh
9:53
Speaker 1: my god, that's so big, that's such a task, that's
9:55
Speaker 1: sut so hard. I don't really have those skills. I
9:57
Speaker 1: don't really have that understanding and the idea that I've
10:00
Speaker 1: got to go lift the bonnet and figure this shit out,
10:02
Speaker 1: and there's I can't have anyone really do it for
10:06
Speaker 1: me in this metaphor anyway, you know. So I think
10:11
Speaker 1: you when you take the easy way not the hard way,
10:14
Speaker 1: you're depriving yourself of the opportunity to you know. Craig
10:17
Speaker 1: Harper speak, grow, learn, evolve, adapt, improve, gain, awareness, insight,
10:21
Speaker 1: understanding all those things. And so I think there's strategic card.
10:26
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this thing that I don't want
10:29
Speaker 1: to do, and it's hard, and it's difficult and unfamiliar,
10:32
Speaker 1: and there is no instant gratification, there is no immediate payoff.
10:36
Speaker 1: But what will probably happen and hopefully happen over the
10:41
Speaker 1: next year, not the next three minutes, but over the
10:44
Speaker 1: next year. I might build resilience, build awareness, build competence,
10:50
Speaker 1: develop skill, be able to be the calm and the chaos,
10:53
Speaker 1: talk to five hundred people from a stage without doing
10:56
Speaker 1: a little bit of wei every third fucking word, you
10:59
Speaker 1: know whatever, is all of that kind of yeah, because
11:04
Speaker 1: and I think there's like I think there's a bit
11:07
Speaker 1: of a an over correction. Like so we've got the
11:12
Speaker 1: we've got the you know, like the molly coddling version
11:15
Speaker 1: of the world where you know everyone, we're nerfing everyone
11:19
Speaker 1: and oh it doesn't matter, it's not your fault and
11:21
Speaker 1: it's okay and fuck those people and you're right, and
11:24
Speaker 1: there's that right, which that's not great. But then at
11:27
Speaker 1: the other end of the scale, we've got the alpha males.
11:31
Speaker 1: And I guess in some ways I'm a little bit
11:34
Speaker 1: of an alpha. But I'm also like, yeah, give me
11:37
Speaker 1: a hug, though, And I cried three times yesterday, and
11:40
Speaker 1: there's some stuff that scares me and I don't know,
11:43
Speaker 1: so I think that that chest beating, you know, like
11:48
Speaker 1: just say what you say, do what you you know,
11:51
Speaker 1: and fuck him. I'm going to live And if people
11:53
Speaker 1: don't like, you know, it's my way on the highway
11:57
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. It's like, yeah, cool, if you
11:59
Speaker 1: live on an island by yourself, that's fabulous, you know,
12:02
Speaker 1: but you don't you live around other humans who don't
12:06
Speaker 1: share your ideas and your experience, you know, So yeah,
12:10
Speaker 1: I think that, and I'll shut up after this. You
12:13
Speaker 1: know what I was thinking about the other day, I
12:17
Speaker 1: was actually thinking about not even being funny Scott and
12:20
Speaker 1: you and me. One of the things that you and
12:23
Speaker 1: me and Scott say is I'm a lot, right, And
12:29
Speaker 1: I was thinking about, and I'm not throwing any of
12:31
Speaker 1: us under the bus, but we're almost saying I'm a lot.
12:35
Speaker 1: So you'll just have to cope with me because I'm
12:38
Speaker 1: a lot. This is how I am. I'm full on,
12:40
Speaker 1: I'm a lot. If I rub people up the wrong way,
12:43
Speaker 1: that's their issue, not my issue, because I'm a lot.
12:46
Speaker 1: I'm a lot, hey, you know. And if you can't
12:49
Speaker 1: cope with my lot a lotness, I'm definitely not the problem.
12:52
Speaker 1: I don't have to change you do, so you work
12:55
Speaker 1: around my fucking a lotness. I'm like, yeah, I've even
12:59
Speaker 1: said I'm a lot, and I kind of you know,
13:03
Speaker 1: you've said it, Scott said it, We've said it together.
13:06
Speaker 1: We're all peas in a pod that way, and I'm like, yeah,
13:08
Speaker 1: that's kind of selfish though, that's kind of me going, yeah,
13:11
Speaker 1: I don't need to work. You need to work because
13:14
Speaker 1: this is just how I am. So I'm just going
13:17
Speaker 1: to be how I am, which is a lot, and
13:21
Speaker 1: you'll just need to figure it out, Champ. You know.
13:24
Speaker 1: So I was thinking about that the other day, which
13:26
Speaker 1: is a kind of a funny way of explaining a
13:30
Speaker 1: high level of self awareness and empathy. Is like, I
13:35
Speaker 1: really think, not in a good way all the time.
13:39
Speaker 1: I'm a lot, and I need to I need to,
13:42
Speaker 1: you know, modify my behavior and have awareness of how
13:45
Speaker 1: I act and react and respond around people without overcorrecting
13:51
Speaker 1: and without being disingenuous. I still need to be me.
13:55
Speaker 1: But how do I be me with more empathy and
13:57
Speaker 1: more awareness and more social intelligence? You know? So that's
14:01
Speaker 1: where my book going to, both for.
14:03
Speaker 2: The other person and for you. So what do I need?
14:06
Speaker 2: What is best for me to accept, what is healthiest
14:09
Speaker 2: for me to accept about me? And what is healthiest
14:11
Speaker 2: for me to change? And how do I manage that
14:14
Speaker 2: when I am me? And who are the people that
14:19
Speaker 2: I'm going to make those decisions about. There's so there's
14:22
Speaker 2: so many levels there.
14:24
Speaker 1: Well, again this comes back to metabception, metaaccuracy, you know,
14:27
Speaker 1: theory of mind all that shit that I'll bored you
14:30
Speaker 1: with for six years. You know, people being in the
14:32
Speaker 1: moments and recognizing that I'm annoying this person and rather
14:37
Speaker 1: than going, well, fuck them, that's not my problem because
14:41
Speaker 1: I'm right, Rather than that going all right, Well, how
14:44
Speaker 1: can I change my behavior or my approach, or my
14:48
Speaker 1: strategy or my conversation or my communication style in real
14:52
Speaker 1: time so that I improve the connection or I at
14:56
Speaker 1: least create a connection not a disconnection, so I build trust,
14:59
Speaker 1: report or respect. Rather than going, well, if he's not
15:02
Speaker 1: picking up what I'm putting down, fuck him, he's the problem.
15:05
Speaker 1: You know. It's like, nah, dude, that's just you being
15:08
Speaker 1: ignorant and arrogant and unaware. And you know, there'll be
15:14
Speaker 1: people where I sit down with for an hour and
15:16
Speaker 1: I will do half the talking. If I'm being honest,
15:21
Speaker 1: there's probably times, not very often lately, but where I
15:24
Speaker 1: do sixty or seventy percent. Not very often though, thankfully,
15:27
Speaker 1: but there was a time. But I would think most
15:30
Speaker 1: of the time like I had a coffee with a
15:32
Speaker 1: guy shout out to Chris Welsh Welshie that I did
15:37
Speaker 1: my first degree with, and I have not seen him
15:40
Speaker 1: since two thousand and two. Right, So twenty four years
15:43
Speaker 1: I saw him today. I spent an hour with him.
15:47
Speaker 1: I could tell you a lot about him, and very
15:51
Speaker 1: thankfully we didn't talk about me at all. We didn't
15:55
Speaker 1: talk about my work, what I'm doing. Am I married?
15:58
Speaker 1: Am I not married? Where do I nothing? Because he's married,
16:02
Speaker 1: He's done multiple jobs since he left Junie. He's got
16:05
Speaker 1: you know, three kids, two girls and a boy. You know,
16:08
Speaker 1: I could tell you other things which would not be
16:11
Speaker 1: fair on him because it's private. But I loved it,
16:16
Speaker 1: and I loved just it being all about him. One
16:20
Speaker 1: because I was genuinely interested. I want to hear what
16:22
Speaker 1: because he was funny as fuck at UNI. But like,
16:25
Speaker 1: think about this, When I started Junior, I was thirty
16:28
Speaker 1: six first time around. He was eighteen. He was a boy.
16:31
Speaker 1: I was a man. I theoretically could have been his dad.
16:35
Speaker 1: You know. So I was at UNI thirty six to
16:38
Speaker 1: thirty nine the first time around, and most of them
16:41
Speaker 1: were eighteen to twenty one, and they used to look
16:44
Speaker 1: at me like fucking granddad. And I was thirty six,
16:49
Speaker 1: and I go, do you remember how fucking old I
16:52
Speaker 1: was at UNI? And he's like, dudes, you were like granddad,
16:55
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, and now you're forty four, motherfucker. You know,
16:59
Speaker 1: it's like, oh yeah, it's like when you're forty four
17:03
Speaker 1: thirty six as a baby, when you're my age thirty
17:06
Speaker 1: six as a fuck? Can you walk yet? You know?
17:09
Speaker 1: But when you're like it's all context dependant. But I
17:14
Speaker 1: don't know how I got there, but yeah, I think
17:17
Speaker 1: being able to understand how you're experienced by others, which
17:22
Speaker 1: is why I've been fascinated with this topic, and using
17:26
Speaker 1: that to your advantage and their advantage, is a real
17:31
Speaker 1: sign of social intelligence. Yeah.
17:35
Speaker 2: And I also think I think very deeply about how
17:38
Speaker 2: we understand just our own reasons and behaviors and choices,
17:44
Speaker 2: like understanding the sacrifices we make, understanding the psychological and
17:51
Speaker 2: emotional and biological outcomes, the processes that take place when
17:56
Speaker 2: we live a certain way and do a certain thing.
18:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was talking about Sorry.
18:04
Speaker 2: I was talking to someone on their show just before
18:06
Speaker 2: this about last year for me and that whole identity piece,
18:11
Speaker 2: Like last year I had to stop training and boxing
18:16
Speaker 2: the way I was because bodied in cope. But in
18:19
Speaker 2: the same year that was the start of that year
18:22
Speaker 2: or the year before the Boxer album was released. So
18:27
Speaker 2: as a trainer, I'm in the gym training a lot
18:29
Speaker 2: of people to box, my favorite sport. I do it
18:31
Speaker 2: as a pastime. I tell stories about it as a
18:35
Speaker 2: speaker because I got so much personal growth out of it,
18:38
Speaker 2: and then I had this experience that relabeled me with
18:41
Speaker 2: that and I always want to step back and experience
18:46
Speaker 2: those outcomes and lessons and that growth. But at the
18:50
Speaker 2: same time, I realized the sacrifice, the sacrifice not only
18:55
Speaker 2: to my brain with the impact of getting punched, sacrifice
19:00
Speaker 2: to my energy, but the sacrifice too, well, it's beautiful.
19:04
Speaker 2: You get all those growth and lessons. Yeah, and people
19:07
Speaker 2: say these things and you get this level of significance
19:10
Speaker 2: because I do this and I'm different because chicks don't
19:13
Speaker 2: do that. There's still that I tell that story as
19:15
Speaker 2: to why I started, but there's still a bit of
19:16
Speaker 2: that there. Yeah, But then realizing well, how yeah, it'd
19:22
Speaker 2: be amazing. I want to go do that. But then
19:24
Speaker 2: at the end of that, when you walk away from
19:27
Speaker 2: it and the dopamine dies down and you don't grow anymore,
19:31
Speaker 2: what have you sacrificed. You've sacrificed real relationships and serotonin
19:37
Speaker 2: and experiences and having the energy to go and see
19:40
Speaker 2: the world and to do a bunch of things because
19:44
Speaker 2: I've bought into an identity because it was driven by
19:48
Speaker 2: a set of things under the surface.
19:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's insightful. I think sometimes you don't know whether
19:56
Speaker 1: the juice is worth the squeeze until later, you know.
20:00
Speaker 1: Sometimes like one of the costs of doing a PhD
20:04
Speaker 1: has been doing less business, doing less gigs, doing you know,
20:09
Speaker 1: like I've pretty much done zero or very little coaching.
20:16
Speaker 1: You know, I still help a few people with a
20:17
Speaker 1: few things. But but you go, Okay, this this PhD,
20:21
Speaker 1: I won't name the number, but this, like I know, financially,
20:25
Speaker 1: how much this PhD has essentially cost me. I'm like, okay,
20:32
Speaker 1: you know, like everything, whether or not it's a pair
20:35
Speaker 1: of shoes. Like if you went out and you know
20:38
Speaker 1: you were going to get some runners, I would think
20:40
Speaker 1: I would assume for you, runners are your if we
20:42
Speaker 1: factor in all the variables, runners are probably your favorite shoe. Right,
20:47
Speaker 1: I'm sure you wouldn't wear them to you know, a
20:49
Speaker 1: fucking ball, But and so I could if you went out,
20:54
Speaker 1: if you went out and there was an amazing pair
20:55
Speaker 1: of runners, like fucking incredible, and now one hundred and
20:58
Speaker 1: fifty bucks even by two, you know, because you go,
21:02
Speaker 1: that's not cheap. But it's cheap for these. You know,
21:05
Speaker 1: it's cheap for these. But if the same runners, like
21:10
Speaker 1: you want the runners, you know they're great, you have
21:14
Speaker 1: you know, you would like they're a good product, blah
21:17
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. But if there was seven hundred dollars,
21:19
Speaker 1: you're like, fucking no way, I'm not buying seven hundred.
21:22
Speaker 1: Doesn't matter, they could be fucking magic. I'm not buying
21:24
Speaker 1: seven hundred dollars runners. And the thing is that we
21:29
Speaker 1: have a like a line in the sand number or
21:34
Speaker 1: level of commitment that we're willing to invest. You know.
21:40
Speaker 1: It's like, well, Craig, if you weren't willing to give
21:43
Speaker 1: up this potential money and all of this time, and
21:46
Speaker 1: then you wouldn't have done it. And so now you know,
21:49
Speaker 1: at the precipice of submitting my PhD, I look back
21:53
Speaker 1: and I go, was that a good investment? And for
21:58
Speaker 1: me the answer is yes, But it for some people
22:03
Speaker 1: it would have been the worst investment. Like it depends
22:06
Speaker 1: how you frame it and through which lens or what
22:09
Speaker 1: metric you are establishing the value of a thing. You know,
22:15
Speaker 1: So I would rather and I've said this before, but
22:19
Speaker 1: if you said you could go to rod Laverna tonight
22:22
Speaker 1: and talk for two hours to ten thousand people for free,
22:26
Speaker 1: but you can talk to ten thousand people live and
22:29
Speaker 1: say whatever you whatever you want, like you can just
22:32
Speaker 1: go do your thing, or you can do a gig
22:35
Speaker 1: over the road to one hundred people for ten thousand dollars.
22:39
Speaker 1: I would definitely take the free option. Now most people
22:43
Speaker 1: would take option two, which I think for most people
22:46
Speaker 1: is probably the smartest option for a range of reasons.
22:50
Speaker 1: And I'm definitely not rich, but that's probably not going
22:54
Speaker 1: to transform my life that ten thousand dollars. You know,
22:57
Speaker 1: it's definitely a lot of money. I acknowledge that all that,
23:01
Speaker 1: but right now I value connecting with people, teaching, coaching,
23:06
Speaker 1: being able to interact with really big audiences. I just
23:10
Speaker 1: value that more than the money I get for it.
23:13
Speaker 1: You know, there was a time where it was all
23:15
Speaker 1: about the money, not all about the money, but it
23:18
Speaker 1: was more about the money because I had no fucking money,
23:20
Speaker 1: and I've got to pay bills and I'd really like
23:22
Speaker 1: to own a house one day, and my car's a
23:23
Speaker 1: piece of shit, and you know, I want to have
23:26
Speaker 1: money in case the wheels fall are for you know,
23:28
Speaker 1: there's all that. So it's context dependent. But I think
23:32
Speaker 1: you know, when you come to you know, physical, emotional,
23:36
Speaker 1: mental kind of investment, energetic investment, it depends on, you know,
23:47
Speaker 1: what is perceived value to you. You know. And I'll
23:50
Speaker 1: shut up after this, and that makes me think about
23:53
Speaker 1: this is random. I'll share it again, and I apologize
23:58
Speaker 1: to probably fifty percent of you who have heard this story.
24:01
Speaker 1: But you've heard the Banksy story, yes, the artist banks Yes, yes,
24:10
Speaker 1: And you've heard the story about his artwork at a
24:13
Speaker 1: market yep. So I might fuck up a few bits,
24:17
Speaker 1: but this is essentially and the story is that he
24:21
Speaker 1: gave I think it was a dude like eight pieces,
24:24
Speaker 1: eight original Bankses. And I think they did it almost
24:27
Speaker 1: as a kind of a social experiment or an exercise
24:30
Speaker 1: in perception of seed value or whatever. And so if
24:35
Speaker 1: I I had an original banks he is probably worth
24:38
Speaker 1: anywhere between two, three, four or five hundred thousand dollars,
24:41
Speaker 1: depending on how big it is, how long it took
24:43
Speaker 1: him to do what it is. But you know, I
24:48
Speaker 1: was going to say something terrible. Then I'm glad I didn't.
24:51
Speaker 1: I just rained it once in my life. I fucking
24:53
Speaker 1: rained it in. I have all of these progridges. Yeah,
24:57
Speaker 1: I look at me not saying the thing. Shouldn't say
25:00
Speaker 1: it a lot? Yeah, I'm not being a lot. Yeah,
25:05
Speaker 1: I don't need to be a lot. I can just
25:08
Speaker 1: be a bit. Maybe I'll get a T shirt with
25:11
Speaker 1: just a bit. So anyway, he had these eight original Bankses,
25:19
Speaker 1: which let's say they were worth two hundred grand each,
25:22
Speaker 1: just to pick a number. Let's say so that let's
25:25
Speaker 1: say let's out one point six million, and this dude's
25:28
Speaker 1: at the market and he's got these original Bankses, and
25:31
Speaker 1: the sign above them says, these are original Banksies, and
25:36
Speaker 1: they're all like eighty bucks each. But given the context
25:39
Speaker 1: of where they were, and given the fact that the
25:43
Speaker 1: price was eighty dollars, despite the fact that they were
25:46
Speaker 1: one hundred percent authentic, he didn't sell four of them.
25:51
Speaker 1: He sold four, I think, And the four that he
25:54
Speaker 1: sold he had to discount to get a sale, because
25:58
Speaker 1: even though people were passing by, who knew who banks
26:01
Speaker 1: he was, who loved his work, who looked at it,
26:04
Speaker 1: who could have bought a fucking two hundred thousand dollar
26:08
Speaker 1: piece of art for eighty bucks. They're like, nah, that's
26:13
Speaker 1: not real. I know it's not real and walked on.
26:15
Speaker 1: That's how powerful perception is. You know, what about this?
26:20
Speaker 2: We're thinking about money the other day and I was
26:22
Speaker 2: talking to a friend I will not name them, but
26:26
Speaker 2: were at my house playing guitar and started talking about
26:29
Speaker 2: guitarists and picks. And they have a range of all
26:33
Speaker 2: these picks from famous people and one of the picks,
26:36
Speaker 2: the plectorium what are they called plectrums. One of them
26:41
Speaker 2: was Kirkbains and fifteen years ago they had it valued
26:47
Speaker 2: at about two hundred thousand dollars. Fifteen years ago. That person,
26:52
Speaker 2: over their life has been through some pretty hard stuff
26:56
Speaker 2: and financial hardship, really hard stuff, and they will never
27:00
Speaker 2: They could sell that today and pay off their home,
27:04
Speaker 2: but the emotional value of that for them is so high,
27:11
Speaker 2: and it's so interesting. You go, it's a piece of
27:15
Speaker 2: plastic with a story that lives in their home that
27:19
Speaker 2: they will look at and attached to. But it gives
27:21
Speaker 2: them something and like, I just it fascinates me. That
27:27
Speaker 2: fascinates me.
27:29
Speaker 1: What's their home address again?
27:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, California, But the funny, well, the fascinating thing is
27:38
Speaker 3: that's if somebody you think, also, like we're talking about
27:42
Speaker 3: perceived value, what people will pay for things.
27:46
Speaker 1: Imagine if how do I say this without being a dick.
27:52
Speaker 1: I won't say the number, but what I get, you know,
27:56
Speaker 1: to speak for an hour is like ridiculous compared to
28:03
Speaker 1: what I used to get for a week of work
28:06
Speaker 1: in my twenties, do you know what I mean? And
28:09
Speaker 1: it's like I've had people say to me, and by
28:11
Speaker 1: the way, you know that there are people who make
28:15
Speaker 1: way more than me. I've had people say, how the
28:19
Speaker 1: fuck are you worth that? And like, you know, and
28:24
Speaker 1: I go, I don't blame you. So when when you're
28:28
Speaker 1: talking to somebody who makes a certain amount for a
28:31
Speaker 1: week and then you make whatever it is I want,
28:34
Speaker 1: you know, but for an hour, and then you go, oh, actually,
28:40
Speaker 1: I'm not in the upper echelon of corporate speakers, Like
28:44
Speaker 1: I'm paid pretty well, but you know, there are people
28:48
Speaker 1: men and women that earn two, three, four, five times
28:51
Speaker 1: what I do to stand on a stage for forty
28:54
Speaker 1: five minutes and talk, and once that experience is done,
28:57
Speaker 1: it's done. But even then you go, I've told this
29:01
Speaker 1: story multiple times too. But I was speaking in a
29:06
Speaker 1: conference in Sydney and I was proceeding Lance Armstrong. Have
29:11
Speaker 1: I told you this? Yeah, yeah, Now this might be bullshit,
29:16
Speaker 1: but I have it on pretty good authority because I
29:18
Speaker 1: was talking to the organizer for a range of reasons
29:23
Speaker 1: he couldn't do it. But I think I was getting
29:26
Speaker 1: paid five thousand dollars, which was for me fucking mind blowing.
29:32
Speaker 1: Like this was, you know, quite a while ago, and
29:35
Speaker 1: still I acknowledge that stupid money. But he was getting
29:39
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. He was getting quarter
29:44
Speaker 1: of a million dollars to stand on the stage. But
29:47
Speaker 1: here's the thing, right, the organizers were okay because the
29:52
Speaker 1: audience was big, they had sponsors, people were paying quite
29:56
Speaker 1: a bit to be there, and they definitely weren't losing money,
30:01
Speaker 1: you know. So it's like, well, hopefully we spend two fifty,
30:05
Speaker 1: but we get back three fifty or at the very
30:08
Speaker 1: least two fifty, so he essentially costs us nothing well
30:12
Speaker 1: plus whatever. But yeah, it's the whole psychology of value
30:19
Speaker 1: and perceived value. And it's like you and I both
30:24
Speaker 1: we won't say his name because we don't want to
30:26
Speaker 1: intimidate him. But we see the same Chinese doctor medicine
30:30
Speaker 1: doctor who's a legit doctor of Chinese medicine, also has
30:36
Speaker 1: a legit PhD and fucking biological science or something I
30:41
Speaker 1: can't remember. And to me, so he's got this intersection
30:45
Speaker 1: of wu wu mystical magical powers and this really good
30:49
Speaker 1: scientific understanding and vast experience. And when he treats me,
30:54
Speaker 1: I'm like, he does not understand for me how valuable
30:58
Speaker 1: he is because what I pay to see him is
31:03
Speaker 1: cheaper than what some people are paying a cert for
31:07
Speaker 1: trainer for. Do you know what I mean? For the
31:09
Speaker 1: same amount of time. This motherfucker's done six or seven
31:14
Speaker 1: years of Chinese medicine, it has done four or five
31:20
Speaker 1: years of a PhD. He's got vast experience, and not
31:23
Speaker 1: only that, he's fucking great at his job. And because
31:28
Speaker 1: I just don't think money matters, but I don't think
31:31
Speaker 1: it matters, matters matters to him, like I don't think
31:33
Speaker 1: it's it's high on the list.
31:36
Speaker 2: One of the stories my speaker coach Jack tells about
31:40
Speaker 2: speaking is when she first started she was speaking to
31:44
Speaker 2: build her huge business, right so to be court business.
31:47
Speaker 2: So it wasn't about getting paid, and she was doing
31:50
Speaker 2: an opening keynote. She didn't know much about speaking at
31:53
Speaker 2: the time, and one of the other speakers that, oh,
31:55
Speaker 2: you're doing the opening, opening or closing. I think it
31:57
Speaker 2: was opening opening keynote. What are they paying for that?
32:00
Speaker 2: And she kind of thought real quick and said, I
32:03
Speaker 2: don't speak, I don't share terms with other people. And
32:06
Speaker 2: then she said to the organizer, Oh, so apparently I've
32:10
Speaker 2: got the opening keynote and she said, oh, yeah, yeah,
32:13
Speaker 2: apparently that is a paid position. She why am I
32:18
Speaker 2: not getting paid? Oh, oh yeah it is. We must
32:21
Speaker 2: have just been an oversight. Is ten k okay? So
32:25
Speaker 2: that you just ask a question and go sure it
32:28
Speaker 2: is ten k?
32:30
Speaker 1: Do you go just this once? Bro?
32:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like you think about our perception of what
32:37
Speaker 2: we're worth and you go, well, And that was like
32:39
Speaker 2: it wasn't even yeah sure ten K Is that all right?
32:42
Speaker 1: Sorry?
32:42
Speaker 2: Must have been an oversight, of course, yeah, yeah, yeah,
32:47
Speaker 2: it's amazing.
32:48
Speaker 1: It's amazing. And it's like, I mean, for me, who's
32:52
Speaker 1: so like basic. I see people buy a bottle of
32:57
Speaker 1: wine that's like one hundred and eighty five dollars. I'm like,
33:00
Speaker 1: fucking really I don't know. I mean, I've never had booze,
33:05
Speaker 1: so I don't know. But I'm like, geez, that's that
33:09
Speaker 1: must be Like I don't know, Like if you put
33:13
Speaker 1: a forty dollars wine in that bottle and people thought
33:16
Speaker 1: it was the one eighty five job, I wonder if
33:20
Speaker 1: they would know. And also we know you can buy
33:22
Speaker 1: a bottle of wine for ten bucks, right, But I mean,
33:25
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't drink wine, but I think
33:28
Speaker 1: there's gotta be Oh, in fact, there was that wine study.
33:31
Speaker 1: Do you remember that study? No? Okay, I like, all right,
33:38
Speaker 1: where was it done? I'm sorry for like, come a
33:41
Speaker 1: bit because there's so much shit in my head. Hang on,
33:43
Speaker 1: I'm just jogging up to the back filing cabinet, okay,
33:47
Speaker 1: so I'll give you the hang on. I'm just flicking
33:50
Speaker 1: through wine study, Wine study, one study, wine study. Here,
33:54
Speaker 1: it is, here, it is. I'll just pull it out. So, oh, actually,
34:01
Speaker 1: can we pause the one second? I find it? All right,
34:05
Speaker 1: we're back.
34:05
Speaker 4: So there's, as I just learned, there's a few different ones.
34:09
Speaker 4: So I'm just gonna read straight from chatter said to me, Craig,
34:16
Speaker 4: You old dog didn't say that bit you're thinking of
34:20
Speaker 4: the Frederick Brochet wine tasting studies, particularly his work on expectation, belief,
34:25
Speaker 4: and sensory perception. The key study simplified. Brochea researcher at.
34:31
Speaker 1: The University of Bordeaux, ran a series of experiments in
34:35
Speaker 1: the early two thousands showing that what people believe they're drinking,
34:39
Speaker 1: what they think they're drinking believe they're drinking strongly shapes
34:43
Speaker 1: what they taste. In one well known setup, participants were
34:49
Speaker 1: given the same wine multiple times, each time being told
34:53
Speaker 1: it was a different wine. Sometimes the wine was given
34:57
Speaker 1: a different price, a different label, a different description, or
35:02
Speaker 1: it was even dyed with food coloring, so they dyed
35:04
Speaker 1: white wine red. What happened The participants described the same
35:10
Speaker 1: wine differently each time. They confidently detected different flavor notes,
35:16
Speaker 1: different quality levels, even red wine characteristics in the white
35:20
Speaker 1: wine that was dyed red. Trained tasters, so professional tasters
35:27
Speaker 1: were also in the group, so they were not immune.
35:30
Speaker 1: In one famous version, a white wine dyed red tasted
35:34
Speaker 1: used tasters used red wine descriptors tanic whatever that means,
35:39
Speaker 1: jammy spicy. No one knew, not one person knew that
35:42
Speaker 1: it was white or suspected it was white. The takeaway
35:46
Speaker 1: so the drinking or literally a white wine totally believing
35:50
Speaker 1: it's red, a red wine, which I understand are quite
35:53
Speaker 1: fucking different and totally thinking like, oh this is yeah,
35:58
Speaker 1: this is a red wine. In fact, it's quite this
36:00
Speaker 1: and it's quite that. Ah. The takeaway This wasn't about
36:04
Speaker 1: people lying or being stupid. It showed that perception is constructed,
36:08
Speaker 1: not recorded. The brain doesn't just receive sensory data. It interpreted,
36:13
Speaker 1: its interprets it through expectation, belief, and content. Okay, so
36:19
Speaker 1: the next question I asked it was did their brain
36:21
Speaker 1: chemistry reflect their belief about the wine? The answer yes,
36:25
Speaker 1: In some studies their brain activity reflected what they believed
36:28
Speaker 1: they were drinking, not just what they actually tasted. Strongest
36:33
Speaker 1: demonstration came from a neuroimaging study by kilk Plasmin and
36:38
Speaker 1: colleagues published in PNAS in two thousand and eight. The
36:41
Speaker 1: participants straying the same wine multiple times. Each time it
36:45
Speaker 1: was presented with different price labor prices, and labels all
36:52
Speaker 1: the way from cheap through to expensive, and while they
36:55
Speaker 1: were drinking, the participants were scanned using an fMRI what
37:01
Speaker 1: they noticed, what the researchers noticed was the wine was identical.
37:05
Speaker 1: The wine never changed, but their brain neurochemistry or their
37:08
Speaker 1: brain chemistry did. When people believed the wine was more expensive,
37:12
Speaker 1: activation increased in the orbitofrontal cortex. This region of the
37:17
Speaker 1: brain is tightly linked to pleasure, reward value, and subjective enjoyment. So,
37:22
Speaker 1: in other words, when they were drinking the same wine
37:25
Speaker 1: but they like the cheap wine, but they thought it
37:27
Speaker 1: was expensive, their brain literally responded. The part of the
37:32
Speaker 1: brain that kind of highlights pleasure and so on lit up. PIP.
37:38
Speaker 1: Participants also reported enjoying the wine more. In other words,
37:43
Speaker 1: belief altered the brain's reward response, not just the verbal report.
37:48
Speaker 1: How fucking interesting is that? And that's all generated by
37:52
Speaker 1: what we think that is.
37:54
Speaker 2: So powerful, Like you think about all of the things
37:57
Speaker 2: that applies to.
38:01
Speaker 1: Fascinating yeah, and you go, are we going to get
38:05
Speaker 1: you to do this thing? So it's not just about oh, yeah,
38:08
Speaker 1: that tastes okay, we get that, but we're going to
38:11
Speaker 1: do an MRI on your brain while you're drinking booze.
38:15
Speaker 1: And then you go, well, that's not psychology, that's real physiology.
38:20
Speaker 1: Responding to a thought in the way that when you
38:24
Speaker 1: think you're in danger but are not. You know, heart rate, brain,
38:28
Speaker 1: you know, respiration, blood pressure, all that shit goes through
38:31
Speaker 1: the roof not because there's a danger, but because you
38:34
Speaker 1: have an idea in your head that there is a
38:36
Speaker 1: danger when there is not. So this is I mean
38:40
Speaker 1: ergo like, how can you not be fucking fascinated by
38:45
Speaker 1: your own brain? How can you not be fascinated by
38:47
Speaker 1: your mind? How can you? And I don't mean this
38:50
Speaker 1: judg mentally, but I'm talking to myself. It's like, I'm
38:53
Speaker 1: fascinated with my what my brain can do, and not
38:56
Speaker 1: because my brain's exceptional, but it's it's mine, so it's
38:59
Speaker 1: the one I've got. So I know. There are times
39:03
Speaker 1: when I'm in a good place and I create really
39:07
Speaker 1: good experiences and it's not about where I am or
39:09
Speaker 1: who I'm with or what I'm doing. It's about I'm
39:12
Speaker 1: in a good place, like i'm And then there are
39:14
Speaker 1: times when things are pretty good, but I'm pretty shit
39:16
Speaker 1: and I'm having a shit experience despite the reality or
39:23
Speaker 1: the situation or the context being quite good, but I'm
39:26
Speaker 1: not quite good. So then again, we create our own experiences,
39:31
Speaker 1: all the while thinking that our experiences are created by
39:34
Speaker 1: external factors and stimuli, when in reality they're a spot there,
39:38
Speaker 1: they're produced by our responses to that stimuli. Thinking about
39:44
Speaker 1: our story about.
39:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that speaks so much into the relationship
39:50
Speaker 2: of different therapies like exposure therapy, talk therapy, somatic therapy.
39:56
Speaker 2: How do I interpret an environment mentally? What means into
40:00
Speaker 2: work do I need to do to change my relationship?
40:03
Speaker 2: And then what exposure do I need? And then what
40:06
Speaker 2: somatic experience do I need to bring those things closer
40:10
Speaker 2: and closer together?
40:12
Speaker 1: Yeah?
40:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to make my reality change.
40:16
Speaker 1: Yes. And instead of going maybe oh when this happens
40:22
Speaker 1: I can't cope, going oh if this, is there a
40:26
Speaker 1: way that I could cope or I could learn to
40:29
Speaker 1: could I adapt? Like when I get up and talk
40:32
Speaker 1: to a group at work of five people for two minutes.
40:35
Speaker 1: I hate it, I'm terrified, I sweat, I can't Okay.
40:38
Speaker 1: So rather than avoiding that thing that you kind of
40:41
Speaker 1: have to do as part of your job and every week,
40:44
Speaker 1: you know, being stressed and sick, and is there a
40:46
Speaker 1: way that you could self regulate, self manage, or even
40:51
Speaker 1: change what's going on in your brain and your mind
40:55
Speaker 1: about that thing? So you can get to a point
40:57
Speaker 1: where not only do you not hate it, kind of
41:00
Speaker 1: enjoy it, you know. And again, the situation or the
41:04
Speaker 1: task is not changing, but you're changing. And when you're different,
41:09
Speaker 1: the response is different. You know. It's like you and
41:12
Speaker 1: the hill. Don't wait for your hill to change, because
41:15
Speaker 1: it ain't about the hill. It's about you fucking adapting. Oh,
41:18
Speaker 1: the hill so hard, the hill so hard. And then
41:21
Speaker 1: we start doing the hill, we start training and losing
41:23
Speaker 1: fat and getting strength and getting cardiovascular fitness, and we
41:26
Speaker 1: do all this shit. Then all of a sudden, the
41:27
Speaker 1: hill's not hard at all, but the hill hasn't changed
41:30
Speaker 1: one fucking bit. Yeah, the hill's identical. You're different, motherfucker.
41:36
Speaker 1: So your reality is different, and it's not because you
41:40
Speaker 1: changed anything external. It changed your the way that you
41:45
Speaker 1: interface and interact with that hard thing that eventually becomes
41:49
Speaker 1: the easy thing.
41:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh god, oh.
41:54
Speaker 1: God, come on, come on everyone, fuck let's do it.
42:00
Speaker 1: I can get on your hill.
42:05
Speaker 2: Or have a wine.
42:07
Speaker 1: Have a wine. Actually, if it's been great everybody. I
42:11
Speaker 1: feel like I may have over talked, but fuck it,
42:14
Speaker 1: I can't undo it now, mister, I don't talk mate,
42:17
Speaker 1: fucking bullshit. I Tiffany can't get a word in cook
42:24
Speaker 1: with Fatty Harps, who's a fucking cookie monster of fucking
42:29
Speaker 1: verbal freight train.
42:30
Speaker 2: That's what you are, that's what I am, all Right,
42:33
Speaker 2: the Express