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SMNTY Classics: The Importance of Feminist Works · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is and Smitha. I'm welcome to Stuff I
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Never Told You, Production of My Heart Radio. And today
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: we're bringing back one that's gonna feel like a bit
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: of a time capsule. And I have to admit I
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: have just done my taxes and it was a time
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: capsule because I thought this happened last year, but it
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: did not our book. We're talking about our book in
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: this episode. I was put in my taxes and everything
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: and I looked at it. I was like, oh no,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: that was a couple of years ago. Yes, I'm glad
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I got it. But anyway, so some of it is
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: a little dated. It's been out for a while, but
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I do think it's important because in it we talk
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: about the importance of a feminist works and book bands
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: and all of the stuff that Unfortunately it is even
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: more relevant than when we were talking about it then.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: So I wanted to bring it back and please enjoy
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: welcome to Stefan Never Told You Protection of iHeartRadio. And
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: today we have a very special edition of a book
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: club for you. It's going to be a bit of
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: a discussion around the importance of feminist books, and also
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: why we should be paying attention to all of the
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: book banning efforts going on right now. But it's also
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: special because we have a very important announcement. We have
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: been hinting at it, we have been alluding to it,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: and it's finally time. Is it is. Samantha and I
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: wrote a book, wrote a damn book. We did. It's
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: hard to believe. Honestly, it really really is. We did it.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: It was a whirlwind, and you'll hear more about the
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: process of writing it in our upcoming Monday Mini But yes,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: the book is called Stuff I've Never told You, The
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Feminist Past, Present and Future. It comes out on August
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: twenty ninth.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Of twenty twenty three of twenty Yes, good dead that part,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: very good call that you never know August twenty ninth
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: of twenty twenty three, and you can pre order it
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: at stuff you Should Read books dot com.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: You can also find the link on our social media channels.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: So yes, yes, go do it. It was a very
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: daunting process, as writing any book is, but also writing
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: any book about femine. Honestly, things changed so quickly, literally,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: chapters we wrote or changing as we were writing them.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because we started the whole thing twenty twenty one.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh yeah, I think.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we had to keep changing it throughout, but
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: of course we had a lot of people helping, yeah,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: on this journey. But yeah, it does feel like there's
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: so much outdated that we kept going, can we fix this?
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Can we fix it?
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Can we go back and add this in there? Yeah?
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: And it is. It's one of those things where it
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: reminds me of how my mom feels about when she
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: cooks things, where she's always nitpicking her own cooking. But
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I'm like, it tastes really good. It's hard for me
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: to look at this objectively, but there are some really
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: cool parts I love about it. One is we were
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: lucky enough. Samantha had this idea like, let's add in
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: this graphic novel elements because we love that kind of stuff,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: and we were lucky to work with a local illustrator
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: named Helen Choi, and Helen turned in our kind of
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: rambling ideas into beautiful art.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: I would say it's probably one of my favorite parts
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: to the book, having her doing all the wonderful illustrations
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: of some of the stories that we thought were important,
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: and then having some of the best like graphics for again,
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: parts of the things that we couldn't say but wanted
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: to show. So she did a wonderful job. And it's
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: so so fun.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Yes it is. It's really really fun. It was a
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: fun collaborating process, which we will talk about more in
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: our Monday mini. We were also lucky enough to work
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: with Jane Franson, who was kind of our editor ghost writer,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: basically the person who made sure we got stuff done.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: I'd like, I think we came in with an idea
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: that we would have a ghost writer, and then she
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: just ended up being our editor and then our manager,
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: kind of our agent. She just became everything a representative
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: and advocate for us. Not only would she go through
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: everything we wrote and be like, okay, we're going to
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: change this and this and this and make us sound
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: very smart, thank you very much, but she really wasn't
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: in between for being a translator, yes, between us in
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: the book world, because there's so many things that we
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: don't know in that field, and she was just a
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: pro holding our hands the entire time and making sure
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: that we were equipped to move forward.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, because we did not know what we were doing, like
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: not at all full transparency. We did not know. We
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: would ask the most I assume, basic questions, but she
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: was so kind and so yes helpful, and there would
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: literally be times where one of us or both of
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: us are having a panic attack and she would like
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: talk us down.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and she did like even after we were done
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: trying to write acknowledgments my bio, I would send her
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: my clip.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: I was like, what do you think of this?
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: She would be like, yes, this is good, but let's
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: add this part. But she would The entire thing was
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: so less painful. Yes because of her.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. So look out for our Monday mini where
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: we talk more about that. Definitely check out you can
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: see an excert on that website. I read stuff you
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: should read books dot com and they chose we also
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: have Another idea of Samantha's was that there would be
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: these kind of like fictional women interludes. Of course, Princess
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Leah's in there, but they chose the last of us
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: when I'm assuming because of the current interest to show
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: as an excert. So go check it out and you
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: can see some of the illustrations and they're really really
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: beautiful and amazing, and so we're happy to share it
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: with you. Now we don't have to be like coy
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: about it anymore. And we'll probably we'll be talking about
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: it more, we'll be mentioning it more. There might even
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: be some like hangouts virtual or in real life. Who knows,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: who knows what? Well hell yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. But
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: like we said, it is a bit daunting task. And
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: one of the things we wanted to talk about in
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: this is the importance of feminist books and feminism in books.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: And I was looking it up and there seemed to
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: be some very basic things that kept coming up, and
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: one was defying patriarchal stereotypes. And that was in particular,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: like even like in children's books or in fictional books,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: of the importance of younger people to see something that
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: is not what you know, like these kind of traditional
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: patriarchal stereotypes that we normally get fed at a young age,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: and why that's so important, and there is a lot
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: of research and science behind that. There's also just kind
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: of opening up your mind, both of young folks but
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: of older folks, and you and I have talked about that.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Of basically, for me, it was college, and there's been
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: some a little bit earlier than that, but college was
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: the big period where I started reading these materials or
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: consuming these materials, and it really changed how I looked
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: at the world and made me challenge how I looked
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: at the world, which is hugely important. Also, they provide
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: context and education. So many of the books we've focused
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: on in these book clubs have done that, and they've
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: done it so graciously when they honestly don't have to
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: be so gracious, but because it's true, like if you're
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: raised in one environment, it's so helpful to find a
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: book like this that's like, here's why you need to
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: start thinking about this or questioning this, or are those
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: kinds of things. It's just hugely important, and it's like everywhere.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: I still love that. We've talked about topics ranging from
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: intersexual environmentalism to just basic like ableism or just basic
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  Speaker 1: feminism and how it impacts every thing and that can
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: help shape how we view the world we live in.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: The structures around us, can give you the tools to
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: combat oppression, to make society better, to recognize the toxic
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: systems and mindsets you've been raised in. And yeah, this
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: is sort of it's been very helpful to learn for me,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: like how everything is intersectional, how you can't just separate
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: out these different threads that they all relate. And there
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: is so much to talk about when it comes to feminism,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: it touches everything. And that was one of the big
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: struggles we had with this book. Well, so how do
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: we choose what to talk about and what not to
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: talk about? And it's just so so, so so much.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: But I do think it's very very valuable. I think
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: that it has been. I think that I love when
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: we do a book club and they talk about another
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: book that they read that influenced them. Kind of seeing
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: all the impact of these books on how people think
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: and what they write about or what they pursue and
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: starting these conversations that are so so so important. And
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: as we talked about when we kind of did our
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: wrap up of twenty twenty two, we were talking about
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: book club, so many of these books that we've read
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: on here have just kind of opened another pathway in
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: my brain for thinking about something differently, or giving it
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: more context, or putting into words what I couldn't quite
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: put into words. And it's just it's so powerful that
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: kind of exchanging, especially if it's a an experience you
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: don't know too much about. It's just it really really
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: can open you up and make you think about things
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: differently in a way that is more conducive to.
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: A better world, I would hope.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: I think something that we have seen in many of
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: the books is that people are really giving themselves and
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: are being vulnerable within these books. And it's a privilege
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: to be a part of that just by reading what
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: has been published. When we talk about Bill Hooks or
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: any of the essays, that they really put it all
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: the work so much beforehand that coming back to it
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: and rediscovering it even though it's been around, has been
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: so important. And that's why when things are written down,
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: why we find it so important that we continue to
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: read it, because it is it doesn't go away, thank God.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: And it may take a little while for us to
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: find again or to discover again, but it does. And
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: no matter as we're about to talk about, no matter
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: how people might push back, it can't go away, thank goodness.
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: And that's one of the things that we see is
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: that when we take something and are able to really
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: hone in on what it's trying to teach us, that
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: how valuable and how powerful those tools are are. And
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: I find it encouraging that we are able to access
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: that today.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: Me too, Me too. And I think, like I said,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: there's just so much you can find such niche things.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: It's it's amazing and I love it. But it's important.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: It is important, And like you said, this is even
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: a bigger deal right now given the wave of book
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: banning that we're seeing, especially around gender identity and LGBTQ
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: plus issues under the guys that these books are quote
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: sexually explicit, and race activism and feminist books are targeted
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: to as well as sex ed and abortion. I just
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: saw the day in Florida. They're trying to make it
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: so you can't talk the administration to people who are
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: a certain age, which is hilarious.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: But I did see that lots of people in Florida
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: are doing a reading. So I think it's becoming a
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: new form of protest and I love it.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Me too, Me too. Yeah, there's been there's been a
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: couple of day has been pushed back in protest, and
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: we'll talk about that a little about the end. But
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: the US and people in general have a long history
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: of censorship and book banning, especially around religion, enslafement, and racism.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Jencrow Ara South is a big one, and sex and gender,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: including birth control and conscious sceptives. According to the National
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Geographic Quote. By the nineteen twenties, Boston was so notorious
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: for banning books that authors intentionally printed their books there
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: and hopes that the inevitable ban would give them a
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: publicity boost elsewhere in the country. Uh, but yes, book
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: banning is seeing a very big surge right now. Almost
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: every state in the US has seen arized in the
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: banning of books in recent years.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: Right as a fight. Let's go over some numbers. From
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: July twenty twenty one to June twenty twenty two, Pan
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: America's Index of school book Bans list two five hundred
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: and thirty two instances of individual books being banned, affecting
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: one six hundred and forty eight unique book title. The
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: one thousand, six hundred forty eight titles are by two
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: hundred and sixty one different authors, two hundred and ninety illustrators,
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: and eighteen translators, impacting the literary, scholarly, and creative work
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: of one thousand, five hundred and fifty three people, all
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: together with other books that haven't been reported on top
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: of the bands occurred in one hundred and thirty eight
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: school districts in thirty two states. These districts represent five
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: forty nine schools with a combined enrollment of nearly four
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: million students.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So this is all part of a big pan
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: American study that a lot of people are referencing right now,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: and you should go check it out because it has
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of data. For one, you can look at
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: who what state s the most bands, Texas as the most,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: followed by Florida. The report found that ninety six percent
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: of the bands did not follow the best practice guidelines
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: for book challenges outlined by the American Library Association and
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: the National Coalition against Censorship. Nearly half of the book
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: spanned are young adult books. Here's another quote from the study.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: The vast majority of the books targeted by these groups
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: for removal feature LGBTQ plus characters or characters of color,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: and or cover race and racism in American history, LGBTQ
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: plus identities, or sex education.
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: All right, Yeah, again, just a reminder, it's not even
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: about that they talk about sex. It's just mentioning a
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: character that might be gay, queer, or anything. So from
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: GPB quote Cheryl Lewis Hudson, an author and publisher specializing
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: in children's books celebrating black culture and black history, said
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: that book bands are about power and that they are
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: nothing new. She said the trend of book bands is
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: not only censorship, but a rature of marginalized communities. So
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: there is a trend in an underlying pattern of white
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: supremacy really that is challenging the actual existence of people
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: of color in a democracy, and I think that's very obvious.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: I'm not even trying to hide it now.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: No, no, no. There's also been an increase in something
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: called preemptive bands, removing books that might be banned before
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: they're even banned. So in one case in Tennessee, our
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: library removed one third of their books from their shelves
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: and anticipation of a state law on LGBTQ plus content
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: that didn't pass, So they were just anticipating it and
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: they removed the books anyway, and that didn't happen. There's
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: also silent bands, where books are removed, are not displayed
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: to avoid controversy, and are labeled. Sometimes are labeled as inappropriate,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: either in online catalogs or physically, like with actual warning
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: stickers placed on the books.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I know in bookstores, I've seen people
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: turning books around that they don't like, and then they
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: will come right back behind them and turning them back.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: It's quite a back and forth.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Okay, So here's another quote from the pen America report.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: There have also been efforts to keep books out of
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: the hands of children, even if they remain in circulation.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: So one prominent example of such activity was the Hide
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: the Pride, an initiative Catholic Vote dot org in June
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty two. Catholic Vote encourage members to check out
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: books from the Pride twenty twenty two displays in children's
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: sections of public libraries and to take pictures of the
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: empty shelves.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, and there there is a difference between a book
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: challenge and a book ban. A lot of times book
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: ban is getting used for a lot to encompass a
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: lot more than what it traditionally means. There's also a
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: difference between that and being canceled, which comes up in
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: this conversation too. And who can challenge or ban a
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: book varies by locality, so it gets really really messy,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: really really fast. The report also found that this what
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: we're seeing right now of banning books is largely the
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: work of organizations and groups, many of them that popped
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: up in twenty twenty one, notably after the twenty twenty
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: election and the insurrection and schools reopening, and some openly
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: push Christian nationalist values. It's also politics involved in a
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: lot of this, obviously, right.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: So here's another quote from GPB. Fifty groups at the state, national,
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: and local level with as many as three hundred chapters
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: highlight a role in at least half of the book
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: bands enacted across the country during the twenty twenty one
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: twenty two school year. Of those groups, seventy three percent
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: were formed in twenty twenty one, according to that report.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they have in some cases harrassed and threatened
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: librarians and teachers. They've called them pedophiles, they've called them groomers.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: They've attempted to defund entire libraries. They've filed criminal charges.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Several states have laws about providing pornographic material, which is
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: often the case used against queer content in this context.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: This is a major thing people get wrong because the
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: issue is often framed as worried parents asking for a
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: banning of books, which it sometimes is. Yeah, so there
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: is that, but Plenty of people speaking at these meetings
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: that you've seen about banning books don't have kids, or
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: their kids are adults. Many will openly admit that they
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: haven't even read the book in question, but they will
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: just google like a book with queer character, and then
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: that's it. These groups have spreadsheets that they just circulate
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: where try to get this book banned in your area.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: One of the groups is recognized as an LGBTQ plus
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: hate group and claim that January sixth was quote clearly
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: a setup. Many have names like Moms for Liberty, and
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: the Moms for Liberty has two hundred branches. They are organized,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: they are recognized. The SANTIS spoke at one of their
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: conferences about parental rights as it's called. They market themselves
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: as grassroots, but many have connections to wealthy Republicans and
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: are very much not grassroots. Here's a quote from a
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: transgender man named Chris Mall. People are scared because they
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: don't think l GPTQ people should exist. They don't want
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: their own children to be LGBTQ, and they feel if
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: they can limit access to these books and materials, then
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: their children won't be that way, which is simply not true.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: And it's heartbreaking and disgusting.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: Which is hilarious because yeah, this is historical.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: We have historical evidence. This does not work.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: That's not a thing. And because you're pushing back on
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: it so hard, you're about to get a flip. Like
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: the only hope that I feel like we have when
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: we talk about these subjects. And there's a lot of
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: bad news happening here all over the country. Georgia just
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: got some today and I'm very much in a flunk.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: But the fact that I know with these pushes, oftentimes
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: the flip happens, and that means it's going to be
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: a revolution type of thing, and it's to be glorious
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: to see. I feel like every time. It may take
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: ten years, but it will come back and I'm excited
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: to see that part.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, me too. And then I didn't really
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: go into it too much. But Florida is like a
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: big focal point of this. It is not by any
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: means the only state doing this, but that they're like
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: that don't the so called don't say gay law. One
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: of the things we've seen in its wake is confusion
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: of like teachers not knowing what to do. They've been
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: told to quote air on the side of caution. And
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: you know, while DeSantis and his supporters will say, well,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: it's just I think grade grade three and below, but
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: it also has age appropriate in there, which means that
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: any parent at any time could challenge a teacher and
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: could get in big trouble or a librarian. And we've
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: seen those videos of empty shelves, and you know, there's
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: been some back and forth about some of them not
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: being true, but some of them are. Uh, and so
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: that's that's a heartbreaking. That's like students being deprived of
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: all of the material. And then, if you're curious, this
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: was more than I really wanted to break down in this,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: but I was interested in it. So this whole parental
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: rights argument isn't new either, but it is also in
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: juxtaposition of the First minute rights of students. And there
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: have been several Supreme Court cases affirming the rights of students.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: And here's the quote from one of them. Local school
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: boards may not remove books from school libraries simply because
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: they dislike the ideas contained in those books. Now, unfortunately,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: our current Supreme Court kind of sucks, so who knows, right.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: That might be turned over again. Yeah, it's quite interesting
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: because again with the news, there's a lot of anti
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: trans bills and it's targeted at parents and young children.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: Supposedly we always targeted at trans people in general, but
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: the language is talking about children to the fact that
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: they're also going after medical professionals who may assist. But
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: I find that again ironic about parental rights. But yet
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: we take away parental rights right But again once again
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: so library and Sam Helmick said, can we acknowledge that
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: this will have a chilling effect? And when you tell
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: me that books about myself as an asexual, non binary person,
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: who didn't have those books in the libraries when I
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: was a kid to pick up and flip through, but
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: now publishing has caught up with me and I can
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: see representation of me. Those will be behind the desk,
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: and that's not supposed to make me feel less welcome,
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: less seen, and less represented in my library. And there's
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: so much again the whole level, because we're not even
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: tackling critical race theory, which is a part of this
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: conversation too. They want to take anything out that has
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: a conversation about race because they don't know what critical
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: race theory is. Again, they also obviously can't tell what
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: queer porn is versus just a story about a queer person.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which is highly offensive because then the the
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: understanding is that all queer people are just pornographic in nature.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, you do you, but that's quite an assumption
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: to make. So yeah, this has been kind of grand.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: There are some positives though. Polls have found that Americans
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: across the political spectrum do not approve of book bands,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: and there have long been efforts to push back. They
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: are happening now, They've been happening for a long time.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: My high school had a Banned Books Week. There's a
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: band book Week in September, and we would celebrate it
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: in my high school. Although I bet that would not
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: fly now, I bet that would not fly, But I
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: loved it. It was great because so many books that
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: are banned are like books that we loved. It's like
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: that you don't know why they're banned anyway. Students have
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: been fighting b well, in the face of like jeering
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: and taunting from adults. Adults, the librarians and teachers and
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: parents are fighting back. You can find a lot of
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: inspirational stories about it. Also heartbreaking, but inspirational. It's heartbreaking
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: what they had to go through, and they have seen
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: some successes. So for example, quote round Rock Black Parents
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Association successfully campaigned for the book Stamped for Kids, Racism,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Anti Racism and You, A History of Racism in the
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: US by the black authors Jason Reynolds and Ebram X
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Kendy to remain on the shelves after it faced a ban.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Hundreds of parents and anti censorship activists campaigned in New
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Jersey to keep a series of books addressing LGBTQ plus experiences,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: including Gender Queer by Mayacobabe and A Long Boy by
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Jonathan Ivison in school libraries. And by the way, Gender
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Queer is the most banned book in America right now.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: So there is good news, but we have to keep
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: fighting because the other a lot of the things I read,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: we're saying, like we a lot of people don't realize
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: how organized this like banning book effort is. That it's
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: not just like a random parent, Like it's an organization
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: that is targeting and finding support. So that's important to know,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Like it is not just like a parent that it
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: has suddenly been like, oh, I don't think my kid
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: should be reading this. There are spreadsheets and like sign
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: up sheets and make sure you're at this meeting.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean that goes to say about all the
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: things that we're seeing right now, because across the board,
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: the majority of people are in support of the things
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: that are being banned. Whether it's abortion, whether it's career rights,
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: and whether it's book bands, whether there it's critical race theory,
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: the majority of people, according to the polls, are actually
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: in support of it or we just really don't care
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: enough to do this. Literally like sixty percent if not
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: higher for all of these things. So we know is
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: an organized few. And that's the scary part. And again,
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: this is what we're watching. I don't want to compare
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: it to all things, but when it comes to fascism,
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: there is is a playbook, and it seems to be
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: that we are following this playbook.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, anytime like censorship and book banning,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: you need to keep an eye on it. It's not
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: a good thing. Like controlling power and education like that
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: is very very concerning. And yeah, like like we've said,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: many of the amazing books we've talked about in this
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: segment have been banned. I know, fun Home for Me
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: comes to mind. We talked about it in that episode,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: and it is it's harmful for people to lose access
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: to these amazing works and you know, seeing yourself, especially
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: as a young person, Like it's so important when you're
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: going through this kind of tumultuous time try and figure
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: out who you are. And then they're removing books. I mean,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: what are you supposed to take from that?
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: And just as a reminder, and I love it. Social
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: media is an amazing platform for us to be reminded
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: that there are more of us than them.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes there are, there absolutely are, and it does matter,
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: like we said, like the power of seeing yourself, of
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: challenging white supremacy, of challenging peric jerch. You're just like
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: like for me, like coming from a small town and
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: getting this material and having like a real awakening sounds
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: kind of a nerdy, but like you know, like, oh,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: there's so much more that I wasn't getting that I
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: was being told and that was harmful to me and
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: to everyone around me to like all of those things.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Like it's so important that we have access to these things.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: So so, if if any of you have been involved
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: in these efforts to fight back against book banning, we
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: would love, love, love for you to let us know.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: You can certainly see our upcoming episode on the writing process.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I did have a thought of like a wonderful we'll
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: get banned that. The only thing is, I feel like
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: you have to have a certain level of popularity to
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: be banned, right, so we'll see.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: You made if we get banned, Like if this is
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: still going, I will fill this pride of knowing that
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: we got banned.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: We made somebody angry enough, not I mean.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: Ine people angry, just why talking about Stacey Abrams.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: So let us go that's true. It's true. Well, if
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: you want to check out this book that might make
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: people very angry and get banned, Yes, it is going
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: on sale August twenty ninth. You can pre order at
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: stuff you Should read books dot com. You can see
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: an excerpt from it, you can see the beautiful art
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: by Helen Joy and on our There will be announcements
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: on our social media and links that you can click
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: on in the bio. So thank you, thank you, thank
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: you for your support, your continued support, and as always,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: if you have any suggestions for books we should be
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: doing on this segment, please let us know. You can
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: email us at Stephanie and Mom Steph at iHeartMedia dot com.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: You can also find us on YouTube. Thanks is always too,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: contributor Joey.
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: Thank you, comes Amida, Yes.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: And thanks to you for listening. Stefan never told you
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: the protection of my heart Radio. For more podcasts from
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, check out the heart Radio Apple podcasts.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Where have you listen to your favorite ships?