Latest / The Occult Rejects / The Rune That Looks Back: David Linder and the Greater Mysteries of Rune Magic

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The Rune That Looks Back: David Linder and the Greater Mysteries of Rune Magic · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen?
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What?
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: What's going to happen? What? Welcome back to the occult rejects.
• 0:27
  Speaker 4: Today we are joined by David Linder, author of Advanced
• 0:30
  Speaker 4: Rum Magic The Greater Mysteries of Nordic Spirituality. This is
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: a book that takes the ruins beyond the shallow idea
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: of ancient letters used for divination and treats them as
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: something much deeper, living symbols, gateways of contemplation, and tools
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: of magical and spiritual transformation. The ruins have always existed
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: in that strange area between language, myth, memory, magic, and power.
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: They are letters, but they are not only letters. They
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: are sounds, signs, names, poetic images, cosmological key, and, in
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: many magical traditions, forces that the practitioner does not merely interpret,
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: but enters into. David's work focuses on the twenty four
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: elder wooth ark runs, looking at each room as a
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: distinct interface with the Greater Mystery, while grounding the work
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: in older source material like the Adahs and the classic
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: room poems. What makes this conversation especially interesting for us
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: is that David is not only approaching the runes as
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: historical artifacts, or academic tools. He's looking at them as
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: practical spiritual tools, something that can be meditated on, embodied, contemplated,
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: and used in daily life for self transformation, purpose healing,
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: in deeper contact with Nordic spirituality. So today we're going
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: to get into the deeper mystery of room magic. Where
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: the runes come from, what they are, how they were
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: preserved in poetry and myth, how they can be worked
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: with today, and what happens when his symbol stops being
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: something you look at and becomes something that looks back
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: into you.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: That is enough, adam me and uh.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: Before we introduced David himself, let me introduce the other
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: rejects joining the show, Sonre my Man, thank you so
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: much for making it this morning.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: Always love having you on, sir.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: Please let everybody know what's going on with you and
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: where they can find all your amazing stuff.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that was a fantastic intro you just said,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: by the way, that was that was great.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: I thought it was perfect about when you had even
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: said prior sometimes I take these things you know done.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, those are really good one. Yeah, my name is Sonre.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: I am I'm gonna start taking this more seriously. I
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: am the head teacher at the Order of Chaos, a
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: cult university. I have a book out you can pre
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: order now called Chaos Witchcraft, which is a system that
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: evolves out of Chaos Magic. I was a student of
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: the late Great Peter J. Carroll and you can find
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: all my work at YouTube dot com slash the Order
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: of Chaos or the Order of Chaosmagic dot com, which
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: will soon be transitioning over to chaos Witchcraft dot org.
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: I love it, man, I love it. Thank you again
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: very much. But I don't always love you being here,
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: my man.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: And we got zero l at what is going on?
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: Zerahl At.
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: I figured if we were talking about ruins, we couldn't
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: do it without him he and it worked out.
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, man, it's good. It's good. I'm I'm I'm
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: super excited. You know. For those who know me, I've
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: been I've been doing the Runer thing, uh building my
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: relationship with them over the last eight years. Uh and
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: uh so. I I've got a little principle where I
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: don't do readings on on my own accord. Uh so.
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: I I work with Stein fox Over on grey Horn
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: Pagans and every week I do terot Rune. Uh reading
• 3:40
  Speaker 5: types over there, and then I'm also doing it in
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: my personal magical practice and things like that. Uh so
• 3:47
  Speaker 5: I work with them in more than just divination, my
• 3:50
  Speaker 5: my self practicing in my own animist magical uh way.
• 3:58
  Speaker 5: That uh that I've been uh working very hard to
• 4:01
  Speaker 5: develop on traditions and a little bit of something different.
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: And I'm really excited to be here talking with with
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: someone practicing the old ways.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: No, I'm glad. I'm glad you were both glad you
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: were able to make it on with them.
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: And uh finally, oh did did did you want to plug?
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: Did you plug your your any of your links or
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: anything real quick, your show or any of your social media?
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so zarahl Ath Eternal channel here on YouTube to
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: keep up with my things. Every once in a while,
• 4:31
  Speaker 5: I I cough up a guitar jam. You can go
• 4:35
  Speaker 5: to zero Ats Shreds if if you like extreme music
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: and you want to watch me suffer, uh you know,
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: through a flow state of stuff that I can't write,
• 4:47
  Speaker 5: but I play. I do that. And then if you
• 4:54
  Speaker 5: end up liking what you see with my readings with
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: Stein and you want a personal one with me, zarah
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: Ath at Yahoo Common will set up a private session.
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: Also, thank you very much, my man. And finally, David,
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: please let everybody know anything that you want to promote,
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: you know, remind people about the book, or anything that
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: you got that you would like people you know to
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: get in contact with you or anything.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, David, I live in Switzerland and I've been
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: working with ruins for about ten years now, and I
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: focused very much on the practical application, but I try
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: to base it as much as possible on historical research.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I see the Norse mythology, the ruins, et
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: cetera as an animistic system mostly and as assistant that
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: can teach you how to reconnect with the world, with
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: the nature around you, of course with other people as well,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: and with the greater mystery through the ruins. So that's yeah,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: that's the center of what I'm trying to achieve, and
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: the results were so incredible over the last ten years
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: that I just wanted to try at least and share
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: it with other people as well, hoping that they might
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: profit from it in their own way. And that's why
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I basically wrote the book.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so love it well, So.
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: Same question I asked all my guests when they come
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: on for Cult and magic stuff, which is almost all
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: of them.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: Anyway, what got you into this?
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: Like, well, first I want to know, was Norse even
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: like the first thing you got into And you know
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: what got you even into looking into this stuff or
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: this type of life.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: I grew up in an extremely Christian environment, and so
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: to make up for that, I became an atheist obviously,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: because that's that's the way to go.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, I've done that myself too.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah that didn't really work out, and yeah, so, but
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: then the Norse thing was the only thing I ever
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: really practiced. So and as far as I can tell,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: that's probably what I will do for the rest of
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: my life because the system is so deep and so
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: complex and works so well for me that so far
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I had no intention of or yeah, no, felt no
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: need to switch systems so far. You never know if
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: you do that kind of work, you never know what
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: happens tomorrow, so you can't tell for sure. But yeah,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: that's the best I can tell you at two movements
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: and ask you how I came to it, is that, well,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: I had a weird life, so things weren't going well,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: and I saw Vikings on TV and I remembered, oh,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: someone gave me an Eda all these years back, and
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: I went to my bookshelf. I picked up the book.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: I read through the whole thing about these gods and
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: the giants and Thor bashing in their head and the
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: dwarf sent the elves, and it just made total sense
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: to me. So I was like this, this is awesome,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: and I really got into studying it. And the more
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: I looked into it, the more it started to manifest
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: in my own life, to produce positive results, to help
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: me to reconnect to heal stuff that wasn't fine, to
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: find more joy and compassion and whatever in my life,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: more productivity. And that's why I stayed with it so far,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: because it works. That's that's how I got into it,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: and that's why I stayed.
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: I love it. Yeah, it's interesting even for me.
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: I mean I never got huge into it, but my
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: like really like my first kind of exposure to like
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: blatantly I guess I cult was I remember in I
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: think it was in elementary school for some reason, they
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: had a book in their Norse mythology for children or
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: kids or something like that, and it was actually like
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: I tried finding it not too long ago, and the
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: author actually made like three like Norse, I think Egyptian
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: and something else. But yeah, I came across that and
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: for some reason, that stuff really caught my attention, and
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: I remember even the art was like just impactful on me.
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: I was just like, I've never seen like things, you know,
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: looking like it. It was definitely It's.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: A very ye. Sorry, it's a very interesting combination. I
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: think it's in a way, it's a very archaic system.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: I mean even the ruins themselves, the shapes, the symbols,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: But if you get into it, there's so much sophistication behind.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: There are so many layers to it. There are so
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: many It connects to all the layers of yourself, psychology,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: the mental aspects, the physical world, the spiritual world. That. Yeah,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: and I think this tension that this brings is something
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: that's that I find very fascinating about it.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: The songwriter Zeroleth, did you want to say anything or
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: risk anything? I don't want to keep going?
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean like, so here's what you know. Just
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: the first thing is on my mind about the room,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: so I love runs. In fact, a couple of years ago,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I pretty much replaced the like the traditional chaos magic
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: sigil style of working magic with runes entirely because they
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: work better. So, David, why do you think that.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Is why they work?
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: What So, okay, let me put it this way. They're
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: there's I'm not looking for the answer of why do
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: symbols have an effect on the psyche? Like we were
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: past that, right, we understand this. Symbols can have an
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: effect on the psyche, but runes seem to have more
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: of an effect than traditional sigils or, let's say, other
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: pre existing sigil systems. In my experience, runic magic is
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: faster and more effective at creating change, either within yourself
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: or in your environment. So I guess my question is
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: why are these particular symbols more impactful than others.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's hard to tell. My guess would be
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: because it is an animistic system. It is directly linked
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: to nature and all its aspects, so the biological aspects,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: the mental aspects, the psychology, but also the subconscious and everything.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: And so because these I mean, how you say that
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: they're so complex in all these ways that they are connected.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's exactly what the book is about, that
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: you try to connect with these symbols on all the
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: levels that they can offer. And I think that's also
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: where the mythology is so powerful, because it's not a
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: book like the Bible, which tells you that's the truth,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: but it's story about a topic that works on many
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: different levels, and it also will have different meanings depending
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: on where you are in life, what your experiences have been.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: And I think this direct connection to this raw energy
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: that you can find in nature is just something that
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: probably charges them to that extent because yeah, but that's
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: my I only can speak about my own experience, you know,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: But my theory is everything that brought people to create
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: that system at the time, the forces that shape this
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: system at the time, they're all still out there. The
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: problem is we have lost the connection to that because
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: we're so isolated from nature, from natural processes and that's
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: but they're still there. So if you reopen this connection,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: then the power that you can access through that is enormous.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I fully agree. It's always occurred to me that
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: there are certain symbols that you get, So, I mean,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: the world of occultism is full of symbols, right, So
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: a lot of people look at the seals that exist
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: within the goetia, for example, and they'll look at it
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: and say, hey, this looks kind of looks like a
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: computer chip. Right, You've seen posts like that. They are
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: kind of interesting, right, But the rooms they like hit
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: you when you look at them, like you feel something.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: It's not speculative at least that's been my experience, right,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: which to me that's what signifies to me, like like, fuck,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: there's something about this. And the only other symbol to
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: me that has the same impact as the pentagram.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: This is probably the most emotionally charged symbol that we
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: have in our current society. I agree with that because
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: it has been so present for so many centuries now,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: but I think ruins at that it's the same effect
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: at the time when people saw if you look at
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: certain sagas, how people react if someone is around who
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: actually knows how to write runs. They're they're really respectful
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: and sometimes scared. And yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: So before we went live, we were talking about kind
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: of the difference between magic and self transformation, or like
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: the what is generally perceived to be the difference, And
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: I would say that those are two very minimum, if
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: not the exact same thing, two sides of the same coin. Right,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: So how did you what is your what does your
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: practice look like and how did it develop over time?
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Well, it's hard to sum up ten years within a
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: few sures. I would say the main aspect for me
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: are ruins are not a classical magic tool as I
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: understand Western occultism. There are gateways two aspects of greater mystery,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: you know, So in order to connect to them, you
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: really have to get into it. And what you get
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: out of it also has depends a lot on who
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: you are. I mean, if you look at Rydo, for example,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: which is the concept of movement, it will the experience
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: for you will be very different if you're a traveling
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: salesman compared to being a farmer, you know. Just so
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: what I try to do is to really get into
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: these concepts and make them come alivee for me personally,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: you know. But based on this on historical sources and
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: based on practical application. The other the other aspect that
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: was very important was to change my worldview from a realistic,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: purely scientific worldview towards a more animistic idea of a
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: universe that is alive and can actually you can actually
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: interact with. And so I've done a lot of work
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: with Drizio and the Nine worlds, which in my opinion
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: are a very good representation of the human psyche and
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: the world's or the universe itself. And what I try
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: to do instead of trapping some dwarf and make it
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: do my bidding, I try to forge connections with entities
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: in all these worlds and try to get them on board.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: So what I still do on a bi weekly level
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: is I do meat workings for the Triple Goddess on
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: full moons, and for the Ancestors and the Whites, so
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: the elves and the dwarfs on new moons. So that's
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: that's the most I've been doing that for years now.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: I also have a daily practice, of course, where edges
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: invoke the ruins and then do meditation, and that depends
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: very much on on what's on the agenda for the day.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: You can invoke a run like ans us if you
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: know today is it a day where you need inspiration,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: or you can travel to swart elf fame and if
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: you know there's something deep down there in your subconscious
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: that's just not okay and you should look at. So
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: that depends very much on what's what I feel is
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: necessary in that specific day. So that that's the two
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: practices that are most regularly regular for me at the mood.
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: Love it probable, I was gonna say, how do you
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: incorporate because the ruins, the ruins have a have a
• 17:54
  Speaker 5: format of being effectively at forty five degree angles and
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: ninety degree angles as far as the lines correspond to
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: establishing the forms, and of course forty five reduces to nine.
• 18:10
  Speaker 5: It's all working within the holy nine. How is in
• 18:13
  Speaker 5: the numerology incorporated in your reward?
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Not that much, because I'm not good with numbers. I
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: work a lot in threes and nines, of course, because
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: these are the most obvious numbers. I mean, three is
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: just something connected to the sacred many. I mean Odin
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: shows up with two of his brothers to recreate the world,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: for example. So that's something that keeps repeating. And nine
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: seems to be an initial English not my first language,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: and sorry, initiatory number which keeps popping up like Odin
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: hanging on the tree for nine days to receive the ruins.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: But I'm not very good at math, so I'm I'm
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: I'm not very good with the numerology aspect of the ards,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: to be honest.
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: That that that's okay, because yeah, I'm i I had to.
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: I had to kick myself in the ass and get
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: at least some basic stuff down of myself too. I'm
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: much more of a feral human being.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: That's fine. I mean they work different for everyone anyways,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: but uh, the main, the main, what's important is that
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: they work, that they produce results. That's that's the thing
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: that that is really essential.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: The numerology in general is one of those topics where
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: I'm like stuck between being highly skeptical and highly interested,
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Because I mean it makes
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: so it makes sense that if you if you want
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: to look at the world through like the Pythagorean lens,
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: you know, or or even through the lens of like
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: simulation theory, that reality is made out of numbers. That
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: or you can say reality made out of information, right, and
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: it's code, and code happens in numbers. There's numbers in
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: every aspect of reality. But like I think, angel numbers
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: are fucking bullshit, you know. So I don't know, man,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: numerology to me is like there's something there, but I
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: don't think we've really landed on exactly what it is.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, I even wrote about it in my book
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: because I think it's interesting, but it's not to me.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: It's not nearly a system of divination like astrology is, right,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Like astrology will hit you, smack you in the face
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: with how accurate it can be. Numerology it's like sometimes
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: maybe I'm not sure.
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I mean like to me. To me, the
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: numerology hits kind of on basicles because I also play
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: with the taro, right, the minor r cana in particular,
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: which is faithful to the single digit code code. Right,
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: And you look across number all over the world, with
• 21:07
  Speaker 5: the exception of who acknowledges zero, everything is the single
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: digit code. There's nobody that has a single digit that
• 21:15
  Speaker 5: is their representation of like ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, Like
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: they start compounding.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's only nine numbers.
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: There's only nine numbers, like anywhere in the world. Nobody
• 21:29
  Speaker 5: created a base twelve single digit system for no reason.
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: It has to be nine.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, So that tells us something. So numbers seem
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: to be an intrinsic part of reality. They aren't. I
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: don't think that we invented numbers. I think we discovered numbers, right.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: We we assigned the shapes that we call the names.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: One through nine, right, the sounds and the shapes. But
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: you know from the moment of the Big Bang, anytime
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: that there's more than one of anything, that numbers exist
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: were brought into existence, right then.
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, Like you can have one atom, then you
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: zoom it to that atom, and then you realize that
• 22:07
  Speaker 5: the atom is made up of three things. And immediately
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: you know just the way the human brain works have
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: to assign numbers to them, Like there's two of these things,
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: now I have two of them. It's it's the quantification
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: of things. Yeah, it's when you've created a sufficient enough
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: awareness that you were able to count things, you can individuate.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, I like that.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you know we're going off on tangent here.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: I'm just I've never thought of really thought of the
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: routines in terms of numerology, and that's an interesting idea.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: To say the least.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: No, I get it, though, I mean, yeah, I could
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: see that one thing. I kind of just did want
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: to go back on. I hate to go backwards a
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: little bit, but like the idea of them, like why
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: these may work better than others? Do you think it
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: might be possible that because they've been practiced by so
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: many people for so long, they've kind of almost become
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: like eggregors and themselves thought forms.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: I think it depends on how you approach them. I mean,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: I have this example in the book that if you
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: start out, you're like sitting on an island which is
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: surrounded by power. However you want to define that. So
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: if you work with ruins, you now start to scratch
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: twenty four grooves into the surface so something can trickle through.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: But if you actually look at the island, you can
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: see there are actually twenty four trenches. They have collapsed
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: in some places, but they're already there, so if you
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: dig there a lot more will come through, you know.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: So that's why I'm I'm big on the on the
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: historical foundation of this ruining practice, because I think if
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: we try to see the ruins the way the people
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: saw them that actually invented the system or started to
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: practice the system, they will be much more effective. I
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: think if you just sit down and do something with ruins,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: you meditate, and then you signed them their own, your
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: own interpretation, they will never be as powerful as if
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: you approach it from them or.
• 24:12
  Speaker 5: The rooms. In my studies that I see is that
• 24:15
  Speaker 5: for the most part it was it was basically between
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: the shaman and the king was the pride like like
• 24:23
  Speaker 5: some of the the earliest like recorded uses that you know,
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: because it was all part of things such as how
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: how like Oden was like a noble class god versus
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: say Thor, who was more of a peasant class god. Right,
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: does does that make sense to you? Or do you
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: or do you see it being further spread than just uh,
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: the elites of Norse society.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Well, you would have to ask a rhinologist, of course,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: for for the most recent data. But there comes more
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: and more evidence to lie as far as you can
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: see that literacy was more spread at the time than
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: we thought that. There are actually notes that are clearly
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: not of a sacred nature as well. The thing is
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: especially with elder food or inscriptions. Of course, there are
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: two old persial materials have disappeared. But yeah, I cannot
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: say for sure. It's very obvious that Odin is connected
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: to the nobility and to the poets, and that's why
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: he is so present in the sources that have survived.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Because the people that wrote these poems that entertained the
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: nobility were followers of Odin. You know that doesn't actually
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: mean that he was more popular than Thora. For example,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: as you said, Thori seems to have been the most
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: popular god with peasants and maybe with many warriors as well,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: because Odin he's a god of war, but he's not
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: really ever taking part in battle except through his his
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: of course. But Thor he really gets into the thick
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: of it. He fights, He goes out there, and he's
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: the classical warrior type by character as well. You know,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: he likes to drink and to have fun and then
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: go out and fight, so that I think that appealed
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: to much much broader audience at the time than Odin
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: and his his sneaky waists.
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: Relatable, right right, I think it's funny.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Is the most accurate description depiction of Thor in the
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: Marvel movies is the one where he's like depressed and
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: drunk and fat. That's more the historically accurate Thor than
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: the you know, golden armor Thor.
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: Well. I I see that Thor like because you know
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: as a ruiner, right, three saws is his ruin, and
• 26:52
  Speaker 5: I see fat Thor as there's three saws. Homie's not
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: taking care of himself. He's the best defender of the
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: universe that he could be by the way they ever
• 27:07
  Speaker 5: had dunkx meled, this is some of the best frickin'
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: need on the planet from Denmark.
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: Okay, uh, one thing I wanted I was wondering about.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: I don't want to keep on hopping on this too
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: much because I do want to get more into his
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: rooms in the book. But you know, when SONREI had
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: mentioned before about like why do you think these sigils
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: might work stronger than other ones? And we were mentioning
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: earlier about like how sometimes I think these things have
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: an effect on us. I do wonder if it's like
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: if I was to make my own sigil, like using
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: a planetary square or you know, chaos whatever, you know,
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: taking the letters and making a design out of it.
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: I guess like to me, I would see that, or
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: even I think the Gaaetia, the way you brought that
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: up earlier, I think that's another good example. The Gaaistia,
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: to an extent does that sigil does have a character
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: that's associated with but it doesn't have like this whole
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: way of life stories involved with all these other characters.
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: Like I feel like the Runes are part of something
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: much bigger so I wonder like, even when you're looking
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: at this and thinking about using it, all that stuff,
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: I wonder it holds more weight in your head to
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: catch your attention into actually really seal it into you.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: You can make a sigil that's just gonna have a
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: little bit of a story of the thing you're creating.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: These runs are part of a whole mythology and norse,
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying, A whole system That makes
• 28:39
  Speaker 4: it a lot more deeper, and I think it takes
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: up more of your mind.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: Possibly.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: That's why each chapter has a mythology section, where each
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: room is connected to one aspect of the mythology. Of course,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: every room is connected to all of the mythology, but
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: I always try to find a story that really personifies
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: one aspect that rather well, and I did a retelling
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: of that myth because I also think that's an important
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: aspect this. As I said, the ads are not the Bible,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: they're not the Word of God. They're poems that were
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: created by poets to entertain people and to tell them
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: about certain issues sacred stuff but also moral issues, et cetera.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: So I think this reconnection through myth is something that
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: is very powerful and works very well in relation to
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: the rooms. So yeah, I think it's important to retell
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: them in order. That's why I brought up the Bible thing,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: in order not to stick to the letter. You know,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: it's important to understand the dynamic that was behind the
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: or the intention of the poet.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: You know what.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: The story actually come And it's not about finding the
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: perfect interpretation. It's really about connecting with the topic itself.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: And yeah, so I find that very fascinating in this system.
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: The uh do you do you know how to read
• 30:17
  Speaker 5: an Old Norse? Or are you depending on Swiss and
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: English translations and such.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: I know a little bit of Old Norse, and I
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: know a couple people who actually have degrees in Old Norse.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: So if I'm really unsure about something I think it's important,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I can I have people that I can send it to.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: For example, I did a listing of all dimensions of
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: giants and the yeos, and so I sent it to
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: a friend and said, look, I do not understand these
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: these cannings and stuff, and then he helped me out.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: So I.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Tried to get a feeling for it. I get a
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: little bit into the Old Norse. If I feel it's
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: essential to go deeper, I ask someone who knows it
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: better than I, because I'm not a linguist and I'm
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: not the Old Morse specialist.
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: That's yeah, yeah, yeah, I leaned on. My favorite translation
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: has been the Chris Holme translation from like nineteen sixteen.
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: I highly recommend that. It's really nice. It puts the
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: columns of the Old Norse next to kind of like
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: an Old English esque kind of verbiage, and it translates
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: beautifully as a as a poetic way of speaking the
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: translation in English. And so that's one of the reasons
• 31:39
  Speaker 5: why I like it. In any word I have a
• 31:41
  Speaker 5: discrepancy with I can check the column and then go
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: online and pester Old Norse sources.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: It's actually the translation I used most in my book,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: with his explicit permission to do so. So I agree
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: with you. It's a really great translation into Chisholm. But it's,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: of course, it's only part of I think it's only
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: the pudic or part of the lays of the Gods.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: I think he didn't translate the heroic poems.
• 32:11
  Speaker 5: If I'm not mistake right, Yeah, I think I think so.
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: I don't know, I don't know exactly who's there. I've read.
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: I've read like the volsag saga at least once.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: And yeah, but where these stories about seek Word for example,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: or Helgi, they're also part of the Codex Radios. That's
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: the basis for the prodec Eda. And I think he
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: just did like stuff like Lucas Noveluspa stuff like that.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: You know, he didn't do the sagas about sea Word
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: and healthy. But yeah, I agree with you. It's a
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: great translation, and it's absolutely and it's you can get
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: it for free online. So if if you enter Chisholm
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: and at a online you will find the link and
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: you can download it there and it's it's really a
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: great way to get to it.
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: A thank you.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: Uh, anybody have anything before?
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: I you've even mentioned before about the room poems and
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: the you know, the poetic and I don't know if
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: you mentioned the pro but your book draws from those
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: from those three.
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: As far as I understood.
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: Which one of those sources helped shape your understanding the
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: most or I guess maybe influenced you the most.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm for specific room work, Definitely the room poems.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: I worked with them from the very beginning. The first
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: thing I did was making room cards. I cannot really visualize,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: so I need to to paint stuff and so I
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: can't look at it.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: And I wrote the ruin poem of each room on
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: the back, even in the very first time I did that.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: But I think the us are very valuable in order
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: to validate results that you get if you, for example,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: if you do an Oden working and you have this
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: very deep experience and Odin tells you that everything is love,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: then you can go to the courses and after studying
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: for about five minutes, you will realize that whatever you
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: talk to it definitely wasn't Odent. You might have learned
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: something about yourself, but definitely not about Oden. And for
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: that it's not a Bible like thing, but it's a
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: very useful guideline to verify results, especially if you try
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: to interact with spiritual entities or that's that's what I found,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: So that's that's how I use it. I use the
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: room poems very strongly to to connect with the ruins
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: and the mythology very much to verify because I mean,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: especially in the beginning, when you haven't practiced much, it's
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: oftentimes very hard to differentiate between what is wishful thinking,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: what is really just your own thought process, and what
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: is something chenin And that's where I see the sources
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: as being very valuable, because there you have something you
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: can compare your results to, and it doesn't have to
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: be an exact perfect match, of course, but it should
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: be somehow aligning with the sources that you that you
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: have awail and so that that's how I mostly use
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: the sources so far.
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: I like how you did throw that in there that
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: you know it may not have been actually owding, you know.
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: I do think that is a thing myself included. I'm
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: sure when I was first getting into this stuff, your
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: mind can run wild with fantasy, I think, just because
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: you want it to be the truth, you know. And
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: I think it's sometimes it's good to have something in
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: there to be like, are you sure, like maybe just
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: take a look at that again, you know.
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: And so I do like how that's I think that's important.
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: Actually when it comes to magic, I do think you
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: need some sort of you know, or some sort of
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: checks and balances sometimes.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if the gods always agree with you something's going wrong.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: How convenient? Right?
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 36:13
  Speaker 5: Uh? You know what we call we call it seta.
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: That's that's basically the word for sitting out and it's
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: it's Norse meditation. And uh so Dave, Dave might might
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: know a little bit about setta or or do you
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: have a meditative practice? How do you meditate on the rooms?
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Uh? That depends. I mean, I one of the things
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: I did pretty early on is starting to construct the temple,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: like in in upstairs, so I do some of the
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: work there. So that's the really meditative, meditative aspects of it.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: But I do a lot of meditation outside, sometimes really
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: sitting down somewhere. I have some special place in the
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: woods here. But sometimes it's also just walking through nature
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: and trying to stay in a certain state of mind,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: you know, to really see the world through urus or
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: through tourisas or whatever you feel is you want to
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: connect with. And then, of course, I mean what you said,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: I think was connected to doing that at night, oftentimes
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: on grave mounds and stuff like that. So in liminal
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: spaces and also in spaces that would induce that fear
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: factor a little bit, that can very much help to
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: get into alternate states of mind. So that's helpful to
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: sometimes but I kind of go out into the woods
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: every night and do that kind of thing. So it
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: really depends on the situation and the available availability of
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: what I can do, how much time I have, where
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: I can go, and what is really I mean, sometimes
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: you just have to do something, no matter if it's convenient.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: So yeah, thank you. Did anybody have anything else? All? Right?
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: Oh, your last answer actually worked out perfect for one
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: of the questions I had because you mentioned the room
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: poems being kind of I guess maybe a little bit
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: more impactful, and they asked, you did put those in
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: the book? What do the room poems preserve that mythology
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: alone does not in your opinion?
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Well, the room portms are debated, of course, because some
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: scores say there are just mnemonic devices to be able
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: to remember the ruins in the right order. But what
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: I found is, I mean, we have only one room poem,
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: the Anglo Saxon one that treats all twenty four rooms.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: The footh arch was slimmed down to sixteen ruins during
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: the Viking age, so the younger footh arch only has
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: sixteen ruins. So for sixteen ruins, we have three different
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: room poems. Stunds us and for eight of them there's
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: only one. But especially with the ones where you have
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: three different stuns us, it's very interesting if you put
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: them side by side to see how much they circle
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: around the same topic, and even if they don't, to
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: dig a little deeper and see how they're connected anyways.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: And that's just for me. It was just a very
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: useful way to gain information on these concepts. But I
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: cannot say that people in the old times studied these
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: room poems and that's how they learned the ruins. I
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: don't think so. But I think it's something that works
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: very well for us today and still gives us a
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: kind of a connection to the path of the ruins
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: and people that worked with rudines.
• 40:03
  Speaker 5: So why do you think there was so much? I
• 40:06
  Speaker 5: seem to see a lot more work, And like I'm
• 40:09
  Speaker 5: an elder footh Arc kind of guy, and I know,
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: I know, I know the younger footh Arc a bit.
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: And I also do love some of the stuff that's
• 40:21
  Speaker 5: in there, like seeing things like these alternate versions of
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: hoglaws and and and Kenna's and whatnot. I think it
• 40:29
  Speaker 5: just it expands on what ruins can be. But what
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: do you think things just got turned into like the
• 40:36
  Speaker 5: younger footh arch or and there's other like the younger
• 40:40
  Speaker 5: footh arch is one of a couple, the couple of
• 40:42
  Speaker 5: different because I think the Saxon footh arc is also sixteen.
• 40:45
  Speaker 5: There's like three different younger footh archs. Effectively, right, there
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: became all this material under the sixteenth like for magical theory. Right,
• 40:54
  Speaker 5: there's so many treatises from coming out of Iceland of
• 40:58
  Speaker 5: younger footh arch used in practice, not as much with
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: the elder too, you know, it's kind of a it's
• 41:05
  Speaker 5: interesting how somebody didn't sit down with the elder and
• 41:09
  Speaker 5: also when Hogwild at its time.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, with the older one, it's it's harder to tell
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: because they're far less inscriptions that survive. The interesting thing
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: about it is that when you look at the percentage,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, one thing that is interesting for people like
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: us is there are many inscriptions that have no that
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: make no sense. There are words that do not mean
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: something like glaucus or or or there are other kind
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: of formulas where you see these are magical formulas. Obviously
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: they do not make semantic sense. And I think if
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: you look at the percentage of how many of these
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: you have compared to two inscriptions that actually make semantic sense.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: The highest you find the highest numbers among older footh
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Arch inscriptions. So it seems, at least from what we
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: can tell, that the elder footh arc may have been
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: more magically used than later versions, where it may have
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: started to be more used as a general alphabet, and
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: literacy probably spread more. But I cannot tell you for sure.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, these are all speculations in the end, because
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: we do not have that many sources with really inscriptions,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: you know that we can really confidentially make any definite
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: comments about that, or at least that's my my how
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: much I know it.
• 42:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, No, that sounds about the amount of mystery that
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: I see there. Also.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but the Anglo Saxon footh Arc actually is more
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: than sixteen. I think it's twenty eight signs. They actually
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: added science.
• 43:03
  Speaker 5: Oh okay, I might be thinking of a different one then,
• 43:05
  Speaker 5: because twenty eight that I don't know, you know, like
• 43:09
  Speaker 5: I know the box Saga runs that's up there, and
• 43:14
  Speaker 5: that's the only other one I know that's more than
• 43:16
  Speaker 5: the elder footh Arc.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: You can look it up. But yeah, the freezing one,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: the Anglicize or even thirty three signs and stuff like that.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: I mean that had to do with the language because
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: the language developed. So in some cases you needed more science,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: in some cases you need less science to Yeah. But yeah,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: as I said, the rhunology side is not my main specialty.
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: But that that's just what I know about what I
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: can tell you about this.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: But I have a the thing I want to so
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: you guys, might I mean, David, I know that you're
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: very focused on historical accuracy and so this might not
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: mean anything, but I find it to be interesting. You know,
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I forget who it was or when,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: but some later occultists, long after the Viking Age, right
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: like in modern times, kind of stuck all the rooms together.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: And you can see that. They come up with this
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: thing they call the web of weird, right, which is
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: this cross shape which you know, you can you can
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: derive all the rooms from it, which I think is interesting.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: But the thing I think is actually interesting about that
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: shape is that it fits right on top of the
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: cobalistic tree of life. They resemble each other.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: That's possible. Mike told me the same thing yesterday on
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: his End of the Road podcast. But I have to
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: say I'm not very familiar with the cabalistic Tree of Life.
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: So I've never heard of this before. I'm like, how
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: the hell did I Yeah.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: You can stick it right on top of the Tree
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: of Life, which means you can also stick it right
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: on top yeah, the Flower of Life. So you know,
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: I always looked at the rooms and thought that there's
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: got to be some kind of like natural connection to
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: sacred geometry. Uh, and take your geometry in itself is
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: like there's some stuff about its legitimate and some that's
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: like some new age nonsense, but it's you know, just
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: like number I haven't looked at the bottom of that.
• 45:11
  Speaker 5: I have an answer for that. I mean, like, I've
• 45:13
  Speaker 5: also seen the uh, you know, the Seal of Solomon,
• 45:18
  Speaker 5: which I you know, that's not what this tattoo is represented.
• 45:22
  Speaker 5: This is like the heart chakras the mark of a
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: uh situation there. But but I've seen the Seal of
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: Solomon being used as a cipher for the ruins. But
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: you're talking about the web of weird, which is the
• 45:34
  Speaker 5: nine uh crossing lines, and now the sepho off of
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: the of the Tree of Life. It's it's got its
• 45:46
  Speaker 5: skew marks and it's it fits. But then people don't
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: like to acknowledge the places where it doesn't fit the
• 45:53
  Speaker 5: way edred thorson Stephen Flowers. Uh does the tree of
• 45:58
  Speaker 5: life in Norse smithlogy is correspondent with what I like
• 46:04
  Speaker 5: to study in Keylontic sciences. I don't use Kelontic sciences
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: things to a t, but when it comes to things
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: like their magical forms, the numerology of the matter, because
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: it's all operating in the three six nine, the U
• 46:22
  Speaker 5: that tree of life, which is the tree of life
• 46:24
  Speaker 5: that I acknowledge, that does fit and it's a little
• 46:28
  Speaker 5: bit different. It has a different flower of life because
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: the numerology is a bit different because yes, that that
• 46:36
  Speaker 5: correlation is meant to be there. Good call interesting.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: I am not not a fan of Stephen Flowers.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: Put it that way.
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: Well, the nine I've read and I really loved it.
• 46:51
  Speaker 5: And I'm not gonna say anything else about Stephen Flowers
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: because I don't know him.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: Sure you know, I talked to him once and I
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: was put off by the conversation. Leave it at that.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: Yo, I got canceled because I haven't him on.
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: What what what?
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I lost people on the show. Yeah, there was
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: people who stopped listening to the show. Oh yeah, I
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: got called a Nazi and all that ship.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Oh you haven't seen the Flowers on Yeah, I see that.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: It's a weird thing because he's like kinda Nazi adjacent,
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: you know, but like the well, you know, he told
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: his story on the show that did not help at all.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: He's talking about going to a Nazi castle and being
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: given a Nazi dad. I'm like, you're not making it
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: sound any better, man, go back to the rooms. This
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: is weird for me because I talked to her side
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: railing here, but like I I talked to a lot
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: of my and I encourage him to read the Satanic
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: Bible by Levey. I told him some things in here
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: I disagree with, but the most part is a good book.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: But everyone who came out of that camp, Michael Chino,
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: Stephen Flowers, et cetera, those.
• 48:02
  Speaker 5: Guys, look, look, I'm with you, man, War against Trapezoid.
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: I don't like the von List interpretation for a blocky
• 48:14
  Speaker 5: kind of postmodern you know, it fits wanting to be
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: a brutalist, freaking society, which is as far from being
• 48:23
  Speaker 5: pagan as I can possibly think of rightly magical edge
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: lords Man I love I love the swastika, but I
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: do not love what I mean mister mustache, with his
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: aesthetics and his dark alchemy.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Someone's gonna sound clip that, man and just put the
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: part where you say I love the swastika. Just leave
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: it right.
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: I have. I've made a sigil, a swastika sigil out
• 48:53
  Speaker 5: of the name xeril Ath that I flash on my channel.
• 48:57
  Speaker 5: It doesn't look anything like a fascist sim because I
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: know what the funk I'm doing with magic like pop
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: embarrass let's not embarrass our guests.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: I still think he did. He did a lot of
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: good research on the topic. I mean, there are lots
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: of just because of him.
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: So sound magical theory. It's just like I I don't
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: gotta like everything the rocket scientists did in Nazi Germany
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: to appreciate getting on a jet plane.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: But the whole Nazi thing is mostly temple of set connection. Yes,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: I think this was not really connected. Michael Queen, I
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: is somehow weirdly obsessed with you know.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: You know, were part of the same circle back then
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: right there, Like I was saying, they were kind of
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: they came out of LaVey's camp, you know. But my
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: other thing. But Stephen is just is it's like reading
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: his work, even though it's very very well researched, it's
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: like it's like eating dry white toast with nothing on
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: it that has been like retoasted to extract all possible
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: flavor from it.
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: He was he was obviously trying to appeal to an
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: academic standard of the time, right, you know, and you
• 50:25
  Speaker 5: know as an old man, you know, he's you know,
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: slowly had to get some sort of cool creds with
• 50:30
  Speaker 5: the kids when he was only going a certain way,
• 50:33
  Speaker 5: you know, because he had to be set adjacent and
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: all that stuff.
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: I listen, they will get off, they'll get off the topic.
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: I had them a lot because I do think he
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: did work that way.
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: I think is a rather imported It did kind of
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: reinvigorate room use.
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: But yeah, his uh.
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: I really just wanted him to keep his affiliations with
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: the Temple is set in Aquino off the show, and
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: it just didn't work out. So it didn't It didn't
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: really go too.
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: Well for me.
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean interesting, interesting guy to talk to.
• 51:07
  Speaker 5: To be fair, the whole country has been reconciling issues
• 51:11
  Speaker 5: and so don't be too hard on yourself.
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, is when it comes to uh, I guess in myth,
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: Odin receives the runs through like you know, kind of ordeal, sacrifice,
• 51:26
  Speaker 4: hanging and suffering. How important is that myth to understanding
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: room magic.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: I think it's very important to understand the Nor's worldview
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: and the idea of their animistic system, which is not
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: based on veneration but on exchange through sacrifice. But that
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: also means if you sacrifice, there has to be something
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: in return. So this idea of just venerating some god
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: and not getting anything back and then just venerating harder
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: because you're just the human and this is the God
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: doesn't work in that system. And I think that's the
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: most important aspect of this sacrifice. And of course he
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: sacrifices self to self, so that's a very special kind
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: of sacrifice. And I think that's very important in the
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: ruin magic sense, because if you really want to transform yourself,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: you basically have to die, because otherwise you will not
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: be able to really change because the old patterns will
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: just keep trapping you up. And I interpret this line
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: where it says and I look down and then he
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: sees the ruins that he's really dying. He's looking down
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: into heale and he's dying, and that's the moment when
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: he can actually see the mystery. But even as a god,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: and I think that's also very interesting, he cannot comprehend
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: that mystery. He cannot keep it within himself without shattering
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: his core, and that that's why he splits it up
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: immediately into these twenty four signs. So yeah, that's that
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: would be my take on that. Does that make any sense?
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah? No, no, no, no, I like that. I think
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: that was a great answer. No.
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: Again, I even think even just going back to again,
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: if it has to do with even part of the
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: mind and your attachment to it, Like you said earlier,
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: the myth is extremely important. So do you think that
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: helps add weight to the value of what you're working with?
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: Possibly in the practitioner's mind, you know, or it even
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: helps like give sometimes allegory I think can help really
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: deep in understanding as well.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Everything that moves you helps in the end, you know.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: I mean even physical exercise orus for example, it's a
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: lot of bad physical strength about That's why in the book,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: in the practical section where I tell people go and
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: work out, it's not just like don't go and lift
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: a couple weights and then go home, but do it
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: for half a year until and do it every time
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: until you really drop to the floor, you know, and
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: then you will get a feeling for what this ruin
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: stands for. The arrow ox that it represents is a
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: really mighty animal, you know, that was a kind of
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: cow that was what is it? I'm bad with English
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: measurements like one meter eighty like about as tall as
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: a person today. So and that that's what what this
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: ruin represents. I mean, it also has strong ties to
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: the ancestors and everything. But I think everything that stimulates
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: you in a certain way can be used to deepen
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: your connection to the ruins and to the mythology. It's
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: just and that's I'm not really not a stickler for
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: the rules. I'm not saying everything has to be historical,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: you know, but especially in that text, it's important to
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: know where to place a certain input or a certain
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: emotional state. You know how to attach to, which room
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: to attach it to, which myth to attach it, and
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: not just go crazy and create your own system. I
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: think there you would lose a lot of value and power.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: So that's that's kind of my my historical approach. I'm
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: not someone who says you need to do each ritual
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: exactly like that because that's how they did it. But
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: it's a solid base to to help you to take
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: these experiences and put them in the right place within
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: the system. I think that's that's how I see the
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: historical aspect.
• 55:48
  Speaker 5: I like to see things like I think about like
• 55:52
  Speaker 5: what Rooin is is kind of like an active thing
• 55:55
  Speaker 5: when I'm doing you know, like like in my you know,
• 55:59
  Speaker 5: in the state of being of the things I do. Right,
• 56:02
  Speaker 5: if I'm tending to the home, Othala is kind of
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: popping out. If I'm out for a swim, labooze kind
• 56:10
  Speaker 5: of comes to mind, right, even if it's just in
• 56:12
  Speaker 5: a swimming pool and not literally a lake, right, because
• 56:18
  Speaker 5: it's just the little things in life and how you're
• 56:22
  Speaker 5: going to find a ruin of correspondence associated with that
• 56:29
  Speaker 5: kind of thing. I'm getting together with a couple of
• 56:33
  Speaker 5: friends that that could be a wahs or it could
• 56:35
  Speaker 5: be Manah's, depending on if it's more a meeting of
• 56:38
  Speaker 5: the minds than a meeting of social connection. These are
• 56:43
  Speaker 5: little discrepancies that I go with and that's just kind
• 56:47
  Speaker 5: of part of how the ruins kind of come alive
• 56:49
  Speaker 5: and it's like the norm is giving me a little
• 56:52
  Speaker 5: hints as I walk through my day.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: That's I absolutely agree with that. I mean that that's
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: when you start to realize that these abstract symbols have
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: become something real for you, you know, when they start
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: to appear naturally within your thought process and within your
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: experience without you having to sit down and think, oh,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: what room does this represent? You know, by just being
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: in a situation and realizing, oh, this is like really
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: a hug a lost moment. And it's also uh, yeah,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: he knows what I'm talking about.
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: It's not as bad as the euash moment though.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: And the other thing that I find very useful about
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: making these symbols come alive is also I mean, one
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: difficulty if you do this kind of work is that
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: there are no real words to describe these experiences that
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: you have because they're beyond semantics. And these symbols can
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: help very much to convey content of an experience to
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: someone else who works with the system that you could
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: not really put into words. So I found that also
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: to be a very useful aspect of working with that
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: system and really make it come off. So, as I said,
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: when I said how glass experience, you immediately knew what
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about, and it would be very hard to
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: put that into words. You know about this this feeling
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: of everything goes wrong and everything crumbles, and but you know,
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: the connotations that come with the simple this, this symbol
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: in itself are just magating. That's that's the very power
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: for you.
• 58:29
  Speaker 5: I can just tell my cultest friend, man, this place
• 58:32
  Speaker 5: is real. Four cups. I'm getting the fuck out right.
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: This is the magical language we speak.
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: That is funny.
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: What is the difference, if there is one to you,
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: what is the difference between meditating on a room and
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: using a room magically.
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: Meditation first and foremost is to get a deeper understanding
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: for concepts, and the magic is to really apply that
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: concept for a very specific outcome. But after time they
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: start to blend together because certain states of mind automatically
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: evoke a certain ruin or wanting to achieve something automatically
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: triggers you getting into that state of mind or visualizing
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: or feeling that that kind of mindset that is connected
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: to that room. So I think in the beginning there's
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: quite a difference between the two, because first you need
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: to learn the system, you need to get in touch
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: with it, and then you need to apply it. But
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: once it really comes life, the two kind of merge
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: in a way. Most you still can if you have
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: a very specific thing. I do not do lots of
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: specific workings to be honest, Like I rarely do working
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: to get a bigger house or something like like really
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: concrete anymore so, but you still could do that if circumstances. Really,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: if you really need money, for example, do a fee
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: working and I'm pretty sure the necessary funds will show
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: up if it's good for you. If not, they probably won't.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: But yeah, after time that it kind of becomes of
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: a natural it becomes a natural thing to just connect
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: these two. At least for me, it's it.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: Is like that, Yeah, that's actually a really good point.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: You had me thinking about even my own experiences, I
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: can almost see that like becoming.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: A revolving door.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: Like even like you meditate on it, you get new
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: ideas and you can apply that to your ritual practice.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: And like I'm thinking about myself leaving it with like
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: Taro because of Zero Earth attributed it to Taro. I
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: guess I probably gave me the idea. Yeah, I remember,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: and just back in the day, I mean, this is
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: how I did it. And I also was very extra
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: I was a ceremonial magician. But you know, if I
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: was to go meditate on a tarot card, I wouldn't
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 4: even just like sit down and just meditate on it.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: I would actually set up like a whole ritual to banish.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 4: You know, probably I'd probably end up doing the lesser
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 4: banishing ritual, the pentagram, the hexagram. I plan of doing
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: like the middle pillar meditation, and then I would sit
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: down and meditate or stand to meditate on the on
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 4: the card. So then, like I mean, now it's already
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: part of a magical working anyway. And I guess if
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: you also kind of want to look at what we
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: were saying earlier, if you're meditating on it and it's
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: supposed to create change inside the practitioner, is that meditation
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 4: kind of like the vehicle for the magic to take place.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: Anyway.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: So I think even when I originally wrote that question,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: I wasn't even thinking of it. I was thinking of
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: it very much in the way you've kind of answered it.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: But I do see how there's a loop in there too.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, the meta citation is kind of like the primer
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 5: for the state of mind that is able to kind
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 5: of receive the change.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yes, exactly, Yeah, yeah, very interesting stuff.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: When it comes to staring at sigils for a while, we.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: Still got David. He just turned his camera off.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, okay.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I had to switch to my worst camera because
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: my setup is not great at the moment, so my
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: my battery is running out. So before I lose you,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: I switched to a lower resolution picture. Put them back.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: Now, did any of yours have any other questions or anything,
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: because I may wrap it up in like another one
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 4: or two questions.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think I'm good. I mean I think
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: it's I think the thing that I would like to
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: say if my question is that David, I think that
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: you have the correct approach to the rooms. I think
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: you got it right. I think you nailed it. I'm
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: very excited to read your book.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: Thanks, thank you. Sorry, give me feedback on it. If
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: you have read it, I'm happy to hear your thoughts
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: on it. Always interesting to get feedback.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 5: Once people have read your book and they want to
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: get started with the relationship with the ruines. What would
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 5: be the way that you would guide them to say,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 5: do these things with the runes first.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: Well, the book is structured in a way that each
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: chapter about each rune has a practical application section in it,
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: so that you can immediately start to do a couple
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: exercises to get in touch with the nature of that rune.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: And my experience is that if you truly want to
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: work with the system, if you're sincere about wanting to
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: transform yourself, you just have to start somewhere, pick the
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: ruin that speaks most to you, or start with the
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: first one and work through the twenty four runs. I
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: don't think it matters that much, but you need to
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: be inspired to really get into it and take it seriously,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: and from there things will just start happening. And then
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: just follow the weirdness and you will have a great
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: right and yeah, strange things will happen, and.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 5: Watch out for laws in you was it's all same.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: Even those need have their their place, you know. It's
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: it's just not something I would tinker with as a beginner.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: Let's say, well, yeah, you have a choice. Usually with
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: Hogglass you don't have a choice. It just shows up
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: and then that's where you are right.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: But one thing I did they ask.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: They always ask a lot of the authors on the shelf.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 4: I remember, what's one thing? If you know, if there's
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: multiple things, that's fine, But if you can give us
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 4: at least one thing that you hope the readers take
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: from this book, we'll get out of it.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: I hope they see that this is a living system
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: and not this is not just intellectual exercise, that it
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: is not a book to be read and then make
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: a post about it and put it back in the shelf.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: This is really something that you have to practice in
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: order to understand what I'm talking about. And I hope
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: that many people try at least one or two exercises
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: and then they will get results. And I hope that
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: we'll hook them to do more study, to get deeper
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: into it, to do more exercises, to I mean, even
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: if they find a different path afterwards. I'm not trying
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: to convert people to to the Norse system. That's not
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: what I'm about. But I just want to get people
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: started to do the work, to work on themselves, to
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: transform themselves. And once you started with that, it's it's
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: very addictive. You will not stop. Most probably, so I
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: hope it's an entry point for people to into that
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: system and maybe for some people really a way to
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: reconnect to their their roots, to nature, to the universe itself.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it's really thought to be an entry
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: point for people to get started with the whole process.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: That was great. I love that man. Thank you.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: I guess everybody else is good for about an hour already.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 5: I never flashed my ink once. I mean, this is
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 5: my own bind room, by the way, if you want
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 5: to see a little bit of my magic, right, Okay,
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 5: So I I grapped that myself and commission the artist
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 5: to put it on me. And it's uh, it's a
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 5: it's a real uh it's a real strength uh conditioning room.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 5: That's what it's for.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: I didn't already have knuckle tash news I'd get.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: Late.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 4: Ah yeah, uh, but David, thank you so much for
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 4: coming on. I really appreciate it. I thought that was
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: a great chat. I really thoroughly enjoyed it. Uh, before
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 4: we wrap it up, I'll let us Sonri and Zarath.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: Let everybody know where they can find him. Go ahead, Snray,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 4: let everybody know where you can where they can Finally.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, come check us out in the Order
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: of Chaos the Colt University. I give a lecture every
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: Wednesday night. We do a live Q and a every Sunday.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: You will get more. You get more one on one
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: interaction with me by joining my school than you will
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: with any other occult teacher out there, which is kind
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: of the whole thing. We do guest lectures and it's
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: a lot of fun and we've got a great community.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: So come check it out so well.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: Bet the Order of.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: Chastmagic dot com and pre order Chasots Witchcraft on Amazon now.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah, we listen.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much for coming on, son right, always
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 4: appreciated here, my man, thank you so much for coming on.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 5: I am zero Athaternal. You can find me on zero
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 5: Athaternal at YouTube, Zarah ath at yahoo dot com to
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 5: hit me up for terror Rune reading well in business
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 5: in general, you know, if you're interested in in working
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 5: with me in some capacity or or whatever, Zarah athet
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 5: yeahoo dot com. And shoot, did I mention something else
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 5: at the beginning of the show and now I'm brain.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: Farting on it.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: I feel like you did.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, not there, but oh yeah, Zarahla Shred's for my
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 5: music and you know you check out my channel. I
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 5: cover a plethora of things. Sometimes I'm magic, sometimes I'm
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 5: current events and other things. I'm current events right now,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 5: all right, so you'll you'll see me bitching and complaining
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 5: about the the situation I ran. If you go to
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 5: the channel now I've read it, Ragnarok. Yeah, this is
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 5: the best apocalypse ever. I didn't know the thimble Vitter
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 5: was going to be this warm.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: All right, funny dude, Thank you, David joke.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 4: And uh, David, please let everybody know what's up with
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 4: your book and anything else that you would like to
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 4: promote advertising club.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: The book comes out on the ninth of tune. I
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: think you can find it on Amazon with Inner Traditions
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: and on other like Simon and Schuster and stuff. You
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: could find my website about the book at Livingrooins dot huh. Yeah.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: You can also email me there if you ever want
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: to get in contact. Also for people that have podcasts
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: and everything. I always enjoy talking to people that are
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: interested in the topic or that have questions to the book.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: And the website will grow over time. At the moment
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: it's just for the book, but it will become a
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: kind of Norse Mythology portal where I will upload more work,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: not just books, but also at the moment, I'm doing
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: some work on the over one hundred and fifty recorded
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: names of Odin and stuff like that. So yeah, check
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: it out from time to time. And yeah, it was
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: great being here. I enjoyed it a lot.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 4: Hell yeah, I know, I really really enjoyed it. Thank
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 4: you very much for coming on.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 3: David.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: It was to you, David, and Zero was also nice
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: to meet to you guys.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 5: You know what I forgot It was Stein Fox and
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 5: my readings that I do on the Sundays. That's yeah, Okay,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 5: there you go.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 4: He made sure that you found out that you mentioned it.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Stein, and we'll be talking to you soon,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 4: hopefully ourselves. We got to get him back on. It's cool, dude.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 4: I really like Stein some dude again. Thank you Wall
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 4: for coming on the show. Thank you every buddy in
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 4: the chat. That's what's up. I appreciate all the questions
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 4: or comments or whatever is going on in there. That's
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 4: why we go live. And until the next one, everybody
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 4: be well later later,