Latest / CinemaHounds - A Lorehounds Podcast / One Battle After Another (2025) - Part 3 w/Jean & Anthony

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One Battle After Another (2025) - Part 3 w/Jean & Anthony · CinemaHounds - A Lorehounds Podcast

0:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey everybody, David here.
0:12
[SPEAKER_05]: This is our part three discussions around one battle after another.
0:20
[SPEAKER_05]: The part one was supposed to have Jean joining us but he had some life stuff going so we got to reschedule and lucky we got to line up the recording to have Anthony join us as well
0:36
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that this is a really great conversation to have two people who are as thoughtful as Anthony and John on the same podcast is really great.
0:47
[SPEAKER_05]: We have a lot of fun.
0:48
[SPEAKER_05]: We talk a lot about race and depictions of race and politics, not specifically about any candidate or party and all that kind of stuff, but just a bunch of stuff that's going on
1:06
[SPEAKER_05]: how this film interacts with what we have going on in the news.
1:10
[SPEAKER_05]: So just to heads up we have some substantive conversations around those things.
1:16
[SPEAKER_05]: Otherwise I think this has been a really fun project.
1:19
[SPEAKER_05]: It's been great to have some thoughtful conversation and fun conversation as well because conversations with Ron and JD were a hoot.
1:27
[SPEAKER_05]: I had a really great time with that and I look forward
1:32
[SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, I think I don't have much else to add.
1:36
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if we're going to do any more coverage of one bottle.
1:39
[SPEAKER_05]: I feel like three podcasts is pretty good.
1:43
[SPEAKER_05]: But if I've got a couple of things in mind, and if we've got anything else, we may stretch out for a part four.
1:50
[SPEAKER_05]: But we'll see.
1:51
[SPEAKER_05]: We've got a lot else happening right now on the network.
1:54
[SPEAKER_05]: We're busy.
1:55
[SPEAKER_05]: We've got some film coverage coming up.
1:58
[SPEAKER_05]: There's certainly Frankenstein, Alicia's gonna be covering that and we're gonna be covering Predator Badlands.
2:03
[SPEAKER_05]: Nicole and I are gonna be covering Pluribus.
2:06
[SPEAKER_05]: Once that starts, John and Alicia are gonna do full-time coverage of welcome to dairy and some checking coverage of Talamaska.
2:17
[SPEAKER_05]: We have our subscriber, only episodes coming up for November for 11sees and second breakfast.
2:26
[SPEAKER_05]: We're going to be doing a Robert Redford film festival and we're going to be talking about pie for our second breakfast episode.
2:34
[SPEAKER_05]: Then we get into December and our top 10s for the year and a bunch of other coverage as well.
2:41
[SPEAKER_05]: radioactive ramblers are going to be covering the new season of fallout and yeah just all kinds of stuff so stay tuned for that information subscribers you know who you are we thank you we couldn't do it without you and if you are here just listening we appreciate you being here as well the things being what they are we just appreciate that we have a really fun community to engage
3:10
[SPEAKER_05]: So, I think that's enough for me and let's join the conversation with Anthony and Jean and we'll talk to you soon.
3:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.
3:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got my heel music on.
3:33
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going.
3:33
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going.
3:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we're found how cold it is.
3:37
[SPEAKER_05]: Do I need to fly in the Gillesk out here in at the beginning of this podcast?
3:42
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, put it there, put it in.
3:44
[SPEAKER_05]: I just feel like I'm like, well, I'm just some punk white, you know, middle class white kid or my trash.
3:51
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, punk trash play in middle class punk trash play in Gillesk out here in the revolution.
3:56
[SPEAKER_05]: Not be podcast.
3:57
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not be podcast.
3:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that is that a little too much appropriation?
4:07
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I remember in my early mid 20s, early 20s, the first time I heard, that was not to all men in electrified.
4:17
[SPEAKER_05]: We were just like, holy shit.
4:19
[SPEAKER_05]: Who is this guy?
4:21
[SPEAKER_05]: And then of course, yeah, we're just like, because we're not revolutionizing nothing.
4:27
[SPEAKER_05]: So who are we?
4:28
[SPEAKER_05]: What's up, Joel?
4:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm telling how's everybody.
4:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
4:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Good to see you.
4:33
[SPEAKER_05]: Good to see you.
4:37
[SPEAKER_05]: got some things to say.
4:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was not around.
4:41
[SPEAKER_05]: I did not tune in for part two, I think, who was that was a Ron and JD who were all from episode seven, alien earth.
4:53
[SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, get a little rowdy in that in the podcast studio.
4:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you got a rowdy at all.
4:58
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's rowdy for Laura Hounds, man.
5:00
[SPEAKER_05]: He was, yeah, I thought it was he was waving that Roman
5:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, I thought it was pretty, I thought it was a, it was a lively combo, but, you know, when I heard your disclaimer at the beginning of the, of the program, like, man, with the type of old, you know,
5:20
[SPEAKER_04]: I have to check that out, that's on this interview.
5:26
[SPEAKER_00]: David put a disclaimer, it was like, oh, you know, you might say not disclaimer just, it was a disclaimer.
5:34
[SPEAKER_05]: Just saying hey, we're going to get vocal.
5:38
[SPEAKER_04]: We're not usually that energetic.
5:40
[SPEAKER_04]: You tune in the little or house to see here, like, you know, little hobbits sleeping in trees.
5:47
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you've had a couple of West Coast L.A. boys still on the chairs around the movie theater.
5:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man.
5:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that bad.
5:56
[SPEAKER_05]: No, not at all.
5:57
[SPEAKER_05]: And it was pretty chill when I went on their YouTube channel record.
6:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, that was pretty chill.
6:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It was.
6:02
[SPEAKER_05]: I do in Javanor.
6:04
[SPEAKER_05]: They were cool.
6:05
[SPEAKER_05]: I like talking with them as well.
6:06
[SPEAKER_05]: So we'll see.
6:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And both of those covers were pretty good as yours with Anthony as well.
6:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
6:13
[SPEAKER_05]: Indeed indeed so here we are part three one battle after one podcast after another Jean yeah you've consumed a lot of media and I know you had some things to say and Alicia keeps
6:30
[SPEAKER_05]: reminding me that one battle is not a lock for best picture, because sinners is in the game.
6:37
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, absolutely.
6:37
[SPEAKER_05]: Am I being re-release?
6:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Is it, are they?
6:40
[SPEAKER_05]: Next week, I would only make sense.
6:43
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes sense.
6:43
[SPEAKER_00]: They got, right?
6:44
[SPEAKER_05]: They got it.
6:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's gonna be fresh in everyone's mind again at the end of the year.
6:48
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a criminal mischief that they had not.
6:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm gonna be going again with my wife, because my wife hasn't seen it yet.
6:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
6:54
[SPEAKER_04]: I figured it might as well have the theater experience.
6:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, absolutely.
6:59
[SPEAKER_05]: And you guys were on with Alisha.
7:00
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, it was you, you didn't have Alisha that.
7:02
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's interesting.
7:03
[SPEAKER_05]: So this is an interesting conversation, because you actually have stuff to compare to, because I am the very small percentage of those who sinners did not work.
7:14
[SPEAKER_05]: Interesting.
7:16
[SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
7:17
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what it was.
7:19
[SPEAKER_05]: I was trying to, I hung with it the whole way.
7:21
[SPEAKER_05]: There was just something stylist.
7:24
[SPEAKER_05]: There was just something that just,
7:26
[SPEAKER_04]: The flavors weren't, they know what, sometimes things grew on you over time.
7:30
[SPEAKER_04]: True.
7:30
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, give it, give it maybe five or six more views and see what happens to you.
7:38
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
7:39
[SPEAKER_05]: I should give it a rewatch before Oscar season for sure.
7:43
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, yeah, you know, and yeah, I'll see how it goes.
7:48
[SPEAKER_05]: So, John, do you know, you, how many times have you seen one bat on now just the one time?
7:55
[SPEAKER_05]: I've not been able to make it a second time myself, although my wife and I were trying to talk because one of the four theaters in the
8:09
[SPEAKER_05]: The actual vis-à-visian projectors are is in one of the neighborhoods in Boston.
8:15
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think we might be able to swing it off if they're still playing it by the time they're there.
8:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that's?
8:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Did I heard you mentioned that?
8:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, the part that it, right?
8:24
[SPEAKER_00]: The part two, I think you mentioned that?
8:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that two or I don't know, it's all over?
8:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
8:29
[SPEAKER_05]: It's all over the world now.
8:30
[SPEAKER_05]: That's pretty awesome.
8:31
[SPEAKER_05]: So, so, John, where are you at with this movie?
8:36
[SPEAKER_00]: What is on it?
8:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I like this movie, let me just preface everything that we're going to talk about, by saying that first and foremost, I like this movie.
8:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the performances that the actors put down were all so no worthy.
8:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I've had problem with anyone's performance in this movie and this one of the few movies I could say that about because I found everyone was just killing everything that they said and touched in this film.
9:19
[SPEAKER_00]: The comedy took me by surprise?
9:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
9:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wish it would
9:29
[SPEAKER_00]: the comedic value for this movie.
9:32
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just so, like, laugh out loud journals of, you know, moments in this film that I felt like that was the essence for me of what I wanted from this movie after I finished it.
9:49
[SPEAKER_05]: Versus the realism.
9:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Versus the
9:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really, I'm not even on all the realism because I don't find it to be realism at all, but versus what attempt at realism was done.
10:02
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm in, I'm referencing, okay, so there's absurdism.
10:08
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, okay, well, yeah.
10:12
[SPEAKER_05]: we know that there are white supremacist organizations in this country, but do they have ginormous cavernous chambers that stretch on from the aisles underneath the aisles?
10:25
[SPEAKER_04]: They might, they might, but I will say this.
10:27
[SPEAKER_04]: there's a lot of this movie that is cartoonish absurdism.
10:32
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's absurd.
10:33
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think, you know, I think, for instance, the Christmas adventures, I mean, come on.
10:40
[SPEAKER_03]: That's so absurd.
10:42
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just absurd.
10:43
[SPEAKER_04]: It is, it is comical.
10:45
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think I understand what you're saying, like, there was sort of a happy middle where there was a lot of laughs.
10:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
10:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Right before you get to the sort of the climactic
10:56
[SPEAKER_00]: All of that, all of the stuff that comes before I think that happy little that we're talking about and after it.
11:07
[SPEAKER_00]: was fine.
11:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that happy little for me was where the movie shine the brightest as a movie as a film.
11:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not talking about performances by actors, but as a film, that's what really stood out for me.
11:22
[SPEAKER_00]: That was handled and done so well.
11:26
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think the script is unassailable.
11:31
[SPEAKER_05]: The performances are unassailable in the production values.
11:36
[SPEAKER_05]: There's no critiques there.
11:41
[SPEAKER_05]: There's only really appreciation.
11:42
[SPEAKER_05]: So for you, it was a content thing.
11:46
[SPEAKER_05]: Story.
11:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the story.
11:49
[SPEAKER_05]: Because for me, the comedy was a kind of
12:05
[SPEAKER_05]: The realism of paramilitary forces do in their thing.
12:12
[SPEAKER_05]: on the streets of our country, right?
12:15
[SPEAKER_05]: And that is what was shocking to me is how effective and how efficient and how unstoppable those guys are because what, you know, what judge is gonna come down and stand in front of them, you know, it's literally a judge says, you can't do this and they're like, either they agree or they don't agree, but they still have the guns, they still have the barcats, they still have,
12:40
[SPEAKER_05]: you know.
12:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, there's some absurdism happening in this country right now.
12:44
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what I'm saying.
12:45
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's what scared you shit out of me.
12:47
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's where the comedy helped me process that because it was a counterbalance to the the realism.
12:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, from my view, this is interesting that you say that because I had a conversation with one of my other friends this morning, not about this movie, but about the real things that are happening now in our country.
13:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And it just went down in New York City.
13:11
[SPEAKER_00]: We're just went down in the right on CloudHouse Street, specifically.
13:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were talking in, it was like we would de-sense the size to this because that's been our experience.
13:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Like my friend on the phone, he was like, yo, the first time you remember the first time I got him up, what were we 11?
13:29
[SPEAKER_00]: He was like, yeah, it was 11 when the first time that the cops rolled up on him.
13:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, patting him down, where you going, who are you type of
13:42
[SPEAKER_00]: watching it on screen for me wasn't particularly, you know, oh my gosh because over policing to that extreme happens a lot in black and brown neighborhoods.
13:56
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
13:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've felt that.
13:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So watching it all unravel on a screen and in real life currently right now, it's like
14:07
[SPEAKER_00]: People are actually seeing the things that have been going on for decades in this country and are attempting to relate to it, which I feel like maybe that's part of the reason why the comedy works so well for me because the things outside of the comedy,
14:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not on my logger, I have no experience with a logger, but the things outside the comedy of what they were fighting against, that sort of oppression I felt.
14:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, that's sort of police statement, T. It's not something that is unusual for me to have felt when I was much younger.
14:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
14:50
[SPEAKER_05]: So those things, the cargo PD dropped a satchel bomb on a, I think it was a Chicago Phil, right?
14:57
[SPEAKER_05]: What's that?
14:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Phil Delphia.
14:59
[SPEAKER_00]: When they Pilling the house.
15:01
[SPEAKER_00]: He told me.
15:01
[SPEAKER_05]: He sent me all you told them about back in the Uh, six, seven, 70s, 80s.
15:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Phil Delphia.
15:06
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a Phil Delphia.
15:07
[SPEAKER_05]: Phil Delphia?
15:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I thought it was Phil.
15:11
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, they dropped a satchel charge on the roof of an apartment building where people were inside of it.
15:16
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, that's crazy, right?
15:18
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what feels new to me and I could very well be my ignorance or it could be that this is genuinely new is just the amount of people that are living in cages, you know,
15:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Near either near a border or in in some place that you know has been hastily constructed and just, you know, separated from their families, you know, all of that stuff.
15:52
[SPEAKER_04]: It happened in the 1940s when we went to World War II.
15:59
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, it was the move bombing in 1985.
16:03
[SPEAKER_05]: Sorry, Aaron, that he carried on.
16:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, yeah, yeah, I was just gonna say, in World War II, we created and they did call them concentration camps.
16:11
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm not trying to belittle anything else, but we did call them concentration camps.
16:17
[SPEAKER_04]: for Japanese families and Italian American families.
16:23
[SPEAKER_04]: And so that is not necessarily, you know, new under the sun, it's just new in my lifetime.
16:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh.
16:33
[SPEAKER_04]: The amount of people who are actually living incaged camps in this country.
16:41
[SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know, to me that feels like this movie's,
16:45
[SPEAKER_04]: kind of got its finger on something that's relatively new, but I hear what you say.
16:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Like the police state is felt with asymmetry by different people and different places.
16:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
16:58
[SPEAKER_04]: And if you get, you know, if you get to live in privileged places like I have, it doesn't feel like a police
17:12
[SPEAKER_05]: We're like, oh, I haven't seen one of those guys in like six months, right?
17:15
[SPEAKER_05]: You're like a state troopers doing over here.
17:17
[SPEAKER_05]: We are so under-policed and Vermont, it's ridiculous.
17:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
17:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And mind you, my experience comes from a very, you know, middle class, working class, background.
17:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I was not impoverished, right?
17:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not grow up in, you know, what, when would consider to be an impoverished neighborhood, but it was decidedly black and brown.
17:38
[SPEAKER_00]: So that did not shield us, you know, the level of income did not shield us from over policing.
17:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And to your point about folks, you know, engages.
17:51
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, mass incarceration in this country, again, this is all the experience, all the things that I thought about watching this movie and watching what's going on, currently mass incarceration of black people in this country has always been astronomical.
18:07
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, moving people 500, 400, 300 miles away from their family to serve their time.
18:15
[SPEAKER_00]: that's on purpose, right, to disconnect you from your support system, being Haitian American and remembering when being Haitian American was dignitized in this country because they said that Haitians were, we were.
18:36
[SPEAKER_00]: how what they say, the three ages of AIDS was being a homosexual, male, being a hemophilia, and being in Haitian, those were your risk factors to contract into disease.
18:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So I grew up around these things in this country, right?
18:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So watching all of this on screen, and that just, you know,
19:06
[SPEAKER_00]: made me recall all of those moments, and that, I think, plays a role in it why I have such a problem with some of the characterizations in the film.
19:21
[SPEAKER_04]: I can just kind of imagine some of the tropes that are being used, but I'm wondering if you could maybe explain some of your concerns.
19:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Profitio, like, God bless teonatella because, oh my gosh, what a world win of a performance, what a absolute,
19:40
[SPEAKER_00]: just joy to see that, you know, fire on screen.
19:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is something that puts a stamp on someone's career.
19:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, kicking in the door waving a four-foil of like, you know, this is her.
19:56
[SPEAKER_00]: This is stamped.
19:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Perfidia as a specific character.
20:10
[SPEAKER_00]: The first time that I said, huh, was when she, her impact, bombed the, the, the facility and they're running and she's stopping to have sex with Pat, and he's like, no, no, no, we gotta get it.
20:33
[SPEAKER_00]: We gotta get it away.
20:34
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, no, no, no, no, we gotta do this.
20:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot imagine any revolutionary who does not want to be quite doing such a thing.
20:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot imagine someone who is planning on committing these acts, saying to themselves in the moment, ah, we should get a quick yarf.
21:01
[SPEAKER_00]: that to me was so absurd, again, to what your point is, the absurdity of the film, but that to me was so blatantly absurd.
21:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's nothing about a revolutionary in my mind that would that that scene wouldn't make sense for her portrayal of the relationship, the portrayal
21:30
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like, to me, I felt like watching, and enslaved women being cursed and cuddled by the enslaver, like, locked joy is in the position of power here.
21:52
[SPEAKER_00]: He has all the cards.
21:55
[SPEAKER_00]: He can break up there, happy little home, all the, where were they called the?
22:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Strange 85.
22:03
[SPEAKER_00]: French 75.
22:04
[SPEAKER_00]: He could break it all up.
22:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So he has the power.
22:10
[SPEAKER_00]: He is not in any way diminished by anything that goes on between them.
22:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Because at the drop of a dime, if he wanted to, he could up in her world.
22:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was, that was sickening to me, watching the scene when she goes to the hotel, it made my stomach churn for her to be in this situation and it almost to be played out as if she's
22:51
[SPEAKER_00]: but to give the impression because he's being submissive in that moment to her that she's in control is totally bullshit.
23:00
[SPEAKER_00]: To mission only in regards to the sex act not to the overall power, but it's played as if, you know, he's submitting to her, the way that it's shown on screen.
23:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
23:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said,
23:23
[SPEAKER_00]: surrounding that and just watching like George's interactions with Bob Pat.
23:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think I want to point during the supermarket or pharmacy or something.
23:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, you know, I love black black women or some shit like that.
23:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just like, what, what is that doing for me?
23:52
[SPEAKER_00]: What is the point of this interaction that they have or not to show me why to tell me what?
23:58
[SPEAKER_00]: That he's sleeping with Yelady?
24:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm too, so there's still having this relationship when after Perfidia gives birth.
24:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Just, it was really, it was really maddening to me to watch the interaction between
24:22
[SPEAKER_04]: It didn't say well, no, that was the intended effect, do you think that part of the intended effect of that triangle is to is to make you feel repulsed?
24:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope so, but I couldn't tell you in the moment of watching the film is that, and even on reflection, that that was what he was trying to get across the screen, because I've not heard anyone discuss the refulsion at this triangle.
25:05
[SPEAKER_00]: outside of the people who are particularly critiquing the perfidia characterization and how it plays upon the tropes of black women at being hyper sexualized in you're talking in the broad media as opposed to yes yes yes no no not no house medium to my broad media yeah people who are talking about the film about how great of a film it is right right i don't see any introspection of any of that
25:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Does this change for you?
25:34
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, let's just imagine if, let's say, PTA is true to the source material.
25:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And Profitia is played by a white woman.
25:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And because I think in the original book, it is a white woman.
25:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Does it change for you at all if this is
26:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, someone else, some other, some other actor.
26:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it would.
26:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it would because I, I, I go into, with, we're all consuming media.
26:17
[SPEAKER_00]: We're all consuming these stories.
26:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And for a very long time, stories have been told about black people in a particular way.
26:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want that historical baggage anymore.
26:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to work that shit out.
26:36
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I always talk about these things.
26:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I'm not here to hold hands with white people in order for them to figure out their racist shit.
26:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever, do whatever is pointing within them.
26:53
[SPEAKER_00]: You do the work, and then when you've done the work,
26:57
[SPEAKER_00]: we could come and have a conversation, but I'm not doing the work for you or with you.
27:01
[SPEAKER_00]: That's something you have to do, right?
27:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, unpack all that shit.
27:07
[SPEAKER_05]: But again, and actually think actually think through things and be with your own feelings and yes, and live in your own conclusions, whether they were handed to you and you just assumed them or you came to some answer on your own.
27:23
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is interesting to me.
27:25
[SPEAKER_04]: So I wouldn't, but because, well, I was just going to say this is interesting to me, John, because I do feel like you naming
27:33
[SPEAKER_04]: your discontent with the characterization does indeed do exactly what you're claiming not to do.
27:40
[SPEAKER_04]: I think for people who are listening to this, who it might have never occurred to them, like, oh, I didn't, I wouldn't have been able to name that trope because that is not my life experience.
27:55
[SPEAKER_04]: The fact that your naming it here,
27:58
[SPEAKER_04]: is very helpful.
28:00
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it, I think it's extremely helpful.
28:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think at times, you, I think you have to name something like that.
28:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Say it, enunciate it, make sure it's very clear.
28:15
[SPEAKER_04]: for someone with a different life experience to even recognize that it even exists.
28:22
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think you kind of are here a little bit, to hold hands, to a certain extent.
28:28
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think you're a great job of it.
28:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I mean, I mean, I think that you're saying, I think that you're,
28:36
[SPEAKER_04]: You're suggesting that the only real work that can actually create personal change has to be done on the person's own time or whatever, but I think that a conversation like this could absolutely spur something like that.
28:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't disagree with you, but we're here because of this movie in this moment, right?
29:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure that
29:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know PTA, I'll probably never speak to him to ask him this question.
29:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if this conversation that we're having, what's PTA's intent.
29:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if that's the work that he's done, because from me, the film feels very disconnected for the conversation that we're having right now.
29:27
[SPEAKER_00]: it doesn't feel to me watching that movie that this was then turned to have this conversation about hyper-sexualized black women tropes on screen in media
29:44
[SPEAKER_04]: It could be that he's using these things unwittingly.
29:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, maybe.
29:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's...
29:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I would love to know.
29:53
[SPEAKER_04]: I would love to know something I don't love to ask.
29:56
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like I would want to...
29:59
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like I would want to give him a little bit of leeway that maybe you're not in a position to afford, you know?
30:07
[SPEAKER_04]: He doesn't have a lot of black characters in his films.
30:11
[SPEAKER_04]: He, you know what that's good?
30:12
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, early on, he never had a lot of women characters in this film.
30:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
30:15
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he's sort of kind of known for the, the white, super hypermasculine anti-hero.
30:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
30:26
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, you look at, you look at the master.
30:29
[SPEAKER_04]: You look at there will be blood.
30:31
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, these, these characters who are benefiting that hold your attention, they are men who are dominating and controlling and hyper-competitive to their core.
30:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
30:44
[SPEAKER_04]: So then the question is, okay, he's really good at doing that.
30:51
[SPEAKER_04]: What if he gives a black actor a chance to shine in that way?
30:56
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that we saw something very, very similar.
31:01
[SPEAKER_04]: I think we saw a very compelling light sort of brilliantly shine in a way that we saw Daniel play music and shine.
31:12
[SPEAKER_04]: And it very well could just be that it's not PTA story to tell.
31:16
[SPEAKER_04]: and and I'm willing to hear that for sure.
31:18
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess what I'm thinking is a lot of his movies are anti-heroes and if I would have seen him pull punches here, I would have wondered like, ah, are you are you are you pulling punches because you're worried what people will say about that?
31:45
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't know if, I don't know if I see it as if the character was anything other than what we got on screen, what I think that they're pulling punches because again,
32:01
[SPEAKER_00]: For me personally, I just felt like the middle part of the movie was the best part of the movie.
32:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And I need to just outside of everything else that went on.
32:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I just really felt like that was the better.
32:14
[SPEAKER_05]: The backton cross stuff with.
32:16
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
32:17
[SPEAKER_05]: Together with Sensei.
32:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
32:20
[SPEAKER_00]: All of that stuff.
32:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that was the best part of the film.
32:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever else he's trying to say.
32:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know what he's trying to say about revolutionaries and revolutions, you know, in this film.
32:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm... Yeah, it's very murky for me, you know, even as I'm thinking about it right now, what is the point that, you know,
32:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Bob is now living a normal life at the end he has a phone and he's part of society and he's right what what he's they're back in the same home I think so yeah right if they were running away from so I'm just okay let me ask you this because I I think I brought this up to David and our previous conversation but I'm be curious to hear your take on this so in terms of how Bob is characterized
33:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you feel like he's an ideologue?
33:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you feel like he's like, do we ever really get a sense of like him believing in the righteousness of the movement?
33:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Or is he just someone with a special skill?
33:37
[SPEAKER_04]: who is made useful and he kind of gets put in service to this particular movement, but maybe he's in it for the relationship, maybe he's not in it for the ideology.
33:46
[SPEAKER_04]: What's your take on that?
33:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Can I interject a little bit?
33:48
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
33:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, maybe a thrill-seeker in a different way.
34:00
[SPEAKER_04]: But I'm curious, Jean, what you think about sort of the way that the main characters are portrayed ideologically, because I don't know what true believer.
34:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean either.
34:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I don't know about it is a true believer.
34:18
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, the same one is our life for the ride.
34:21
[SPEAKER_04]: That's Evelyn Princidia, what do you think?
34:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think Perfadia is a true believer.
34:27
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I don't think so either.
34:29
[SPEAKER_04]: I think she's a thrill-sicker.
34:31
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think he's, I think he's in it because he's, in fact, she was with her, and he likes blowing shut up.
34:38
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that's what he's in it for.
34:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
34:40
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think she's, I think that she maybe comes from a long line of true believers, but I don't get, I don't ever get the sense that she's in it for that.
34:51
[SPEAKER_00]: No, but again, and what's the point of telling me she comes from a long line of true of revolutionaries, what would those mothers have thought of her actions, her reckless behavior that puts everyone, herself, and everyone around her, and danger that is almost a detriment to the movement, right?
35:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't imagine her doing the things that she's done in this movie.
35:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Aside the only thing I can see, you know, in my mind's eye, is someone who's brought up in this, the fight, and turning that back on the fight, saying, okay, I'm not going
35:48
[SPEAKER_05]: That's not perfidia, because she, she found and then she, and then she left, she didn't even go to Mexico and then get reconnected and saying, how can I get back into the game or do some stuff or I, you know, organizing some stuff somewhere else, as far as we know, she just goes and lives whatever life she has.
36:15
[SPEAKER_05]: And doesn't engage in any
36:18
[SPEAKER_05]: revolutionary radical activities.
36:24
[SPEAKER_00]: But I can see that.
36:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see someone who is saying, I don't want to do this, right?
36:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want this life that you've plotted out for me.
36:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see someone saying, I'm walking away from this.
36:35
[SPEAKER_00]: what I cannot see is someone who is brought up as a revolutionary, quote-unquote, comes from a long line of revolutionary, is quote-unquote, constantly putting herself, the movement, and others at risk of being killed and caught.
36:55
[SPEAKER_00]: That, I will never agree with that portrayal of someone who is in the fight who has been brought up
37:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see someone brought up in the fight scene.
37:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Fuck the fight.
37:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know.
37:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm laying down my arms.
37:12
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm, you know, walking away.
37:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing a shame.
37:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm, you know, riding off into the sunset.
37:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Leave me alone.
37:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see that.
37:19
[SPEAKER_00]: But this, no way.
37:22
[SPEAKER_00]: No way.
37:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It just didn't feel right to me.
37:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So her character, you know, again, just didn't feel right.
37:34
[SPEAKER_00]: and that is what keeps me from saying that this movie is what a lot of people are saying that it is.
37:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just can't see it.
37:48
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't unsee the things that I saw if that makes sense.
38:02
[SPEAKER_05]: visually stunning piece, the performances are so compelling, there are so many truths to be hold in little moments and little actions, little father, daughter, joky moments, the terror of policing, the absurdity of some of our cultural aspects in America, the profundity of Sensei, and you just say, like, oh yeah, we've been doing this for hundreds of years, so like to say nothing
38:32
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
38:32
[SPEAKER_05]: Like all of these truths to be sort of there.
38:35
[SPEAKER_05]: So there might be a little Regency bias in like, whoa, you know, seeing this movie.
38:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Is it will it?
38:43
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm taking your question, Joel, and saying in six months, any year, in five years, are we going to have the same?
38:50
[SPEAKER_05]: We'll hit the same.
38:52
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
38:53
[SPEAKER_05]: And we don't know that yet, because we're only a month or so in the movie.
38:58
[SPEAKER_00]: We're only here right now.
38:59
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
39:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't hang this ship and go into the kitchen.
39:03
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm always thinking.
39:05
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, man.
39:06
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, man.
39:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, man.
39:10
[SPEAKER_04]: So I wanted to put this movie in conversation.
39:13
[SPEAKER_04]: I was going to put it in conversation with Parasite and the Godfather.
39:17
[SPEAKER_04]: But it sounds like maybe Parasite's maybe not present to mind for you, but let's just do the Godfather, right?
39:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
39:27
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
39:29
[SPEAKER_04]: You got father, you know, all right.
39:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So just a preface, but I'm still curious though, yeah, what do you want to do with it?
39:34
[SPEAKER_04]: I just don't like it.
39:35
[SPEAKER_04]: So well, okay, the reason why I'm bringing these up is that I think they're all sort of cultural moments, the all sort of created Oscar, like serious Oscar buzz.
39:49
[SPEAKER_04]: They're all about power, a cemetery,
39:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, with parasite, it's, it's a, it's a class difference that sort of, like, leads both of the, the, the upper class on the lower class to kind of be pitted against each other because of capitalism and because of capitalism, they both become parasites to each other, but that is one thing that Bong said.
40:16
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like it's, there's parasites, uh, below when there's parasites above.
40:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, so there's that.
40:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that with regard to the Godfather, it's like, um, a very sort of Italian American experience, like, well, if the police are not going to bring justice, if the court system is not going to bring justice.
40:39
[SPEAKER_04]: then you're going to have to rely on this older patriarchal model, where you do favors for the dawn and the dawn expects things from you, and then on occasion, you get to have a little bit of justice, but at what cost, right?
40:55
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's a power asymmetry in America and Italian Americans have figured out some way to sort of bypass the usual avenues for justice, right?
41:08
[SPEAKER_04]: But of course, that becomes just super tribal, right?
41:11
[SPEAKER_04]: So I was going to bring up these two things in conversation with once upon a, or, uh, one battle after the next one battle after another.
41:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, get it right.
41:21
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like, it feels like after the next.
41:26
[SPEAKER_04]: It feels like after the next.
41:27
[SPEAKER_04]: I was going to bring that up because I, I don't, I wasn't around when the got when Godfather,
41:33
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I mean, I wasn't around.
41:35
[SPEAKER_04]: I, I think I was, you didn't see the entity in front.
41:38
[SPEAKER_04]: I was an infant when Godfather, uh, you didn't go to the deities to see the robots, right?
41:45
[SPEAKER_04]: And I, I wish that there was a podcast in that time.
41:51
[SPEAKER_04]: with someone in the Italian American community to come and say to me, like, that doesn't have to be you on screen, right?
42:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I feel like there was a sense in which, you know, and I grew up Italian, but I'm not really Italian, more California than I am Italian.
42:09
[SPEAKER_04]: So I just preface that.
42:11
[SPEAKER_04]: So I mean, there are people that were far more Italian than I am.
42:15
[SPEAKER_04]: But I do remember identifying as such as a kid
42:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Why is everyone that is of the time to send, why do they all sound like Rocky?
42:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Because they're either kind of buffoons or they're gangsters or whatever, they're criminals.
42:37
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's interesting to me that the godfather is sort of portraying these murderous monsters.
42:46
[SPEAKER_04]: on screen like sort of like the classic the classic anti-hero right is is sort of in this movie and it's an amazing performance and I love that movie and yet I want to hear the voices of those Italian critics in the 1970s that say you know what for those who don't have the sophisticated point of
43:14
[SPEAKER_04]: This is not you, right?
43:17
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I kind of feel like there's it's weird because the Italian American community has kind of embraced that film.
43:25
[SPEAKER_04]: And that film has a lot of funny scenes, like you watch it, it's got a lot of funny scenes in it.
43:32
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I'm really comparing, you know, compelling characters, you've got, you know, you've got amazing performances and because of that, you're kind of drawn, you're trying to
43:51
[SPEAKER_04]: And then you kind of take a that step back and wonder like, is this gonna be every Italian movie for the rest of the next 30 years?
44:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I've got the feels like that was the case, right?
44:06
[SPEAKER_04]: And yet it's like, there is a sense in which, and especially during the 70s, there's a sense in which these Italian directors and I can name five of them.
44:16
[SPEAKER_04]: had a hold on this particular art form in a way that African filmmakers are just now kind of just starting to seize, right?
44:29
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're just right at that really beginning stage, I feel like.
44:33
[SPEAKER_04]: with appeal and coogler and and I do feel like this is the moment when someone like John can come along and say, yeah, okay, this is when we have to call out the tropes, right?
44:50
[SPEAKER_04]: This is how this is when we need to call them out now because otherwise it could be another
45:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, what do you, no, no, no, no, I think that's, that's really, you know, a smart thing that you just said because my, again, when I, when I said, you know, I don't want another, you know, 25 years of this.
45:19
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
45:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want someone else to come along and say, Oh, PTA really has something with that portfolio.
45:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me do a, you know, name a person and we're going to cast and we're going to try to do the recreate this magic.
45:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, how would he love actually to like copy Godfather right?
45:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
45:41
[SPEAKER_04]: So if this movie is celebrated in the way that it, you know, I, and I participated in the celebration for sure.
45:47
[SPEAKER_04]: I've seen a twice.
45:49
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll probably see it three or four more times.
45:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, two podcasts, but yeah, I could see.
45:59
[SPEAKER_04]: For me, I read, I read graffiti as a sort of a really compelling anti-hero and a very flawed character.
46:07
[SPEAKER_04]: And yet, I can totally see another 15 films try to do this in a less sophisticated way.
46:17
[SPEAKER_04]: And that would, man, that would be really disheartening.
46:22
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be.
46:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And one thing I'll say also is that I hear a lot of, she's the center of this movie, right?
46:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't find that.
46:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't find that she was the center of this movie because simply because I don't know enough about her for her to matter in that way to me as I was watching this film.
46:45
[SPEAKER_04]: I think she has a very large shadow.
46:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that sort of the shell that Bob becomes
46:56
[SPEAKER_04]: And the sort of the absence of her not going to lie in the for Bob say I'm not blaming the black one of the for Bob no no no no I don't say here's what I am saying here's what I do want to say I feel like this movie doesn't work without the prologue like even though I like the middle right I feel like.
47:20
[SPEAKER_04]: she is so unbelievably captivating in the first half an hour of this film that she's unforgettable.
47:29
[SPEAKER_04]: She's unforgettable.
47:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Bob makes Bob and Willa in lockdown.
47:34
[SPEAKER_04]: None of these people make any sense without her.
47:41
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not my half to sit with that for a day.
47:45
[SPEAKER_00]: because I don't feel that way.
47:47
[SPEAKER_04]: You're being very generous, you're being very generous.
47:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I appreciate that.
47:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think my view is that the Caprio is really the supporting actor of this film.
47:59
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that he supports two women who are the lead characters, one is sort of an antihero and one is just complete protagonist.
48:14
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think that he's, you know, even though he has the most screen time between all the time, I think that he really is the supporting actor.
48:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I get that.
48:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand it.
48:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, yeah, I think I failed differently.
48:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I really do.
48:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I, I feel differently.
48:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, I want to know more about perfidious struggles and
48:42
[SPEAKER_00]: being the anti-hero, because I don't, I don't see her as a anti-hero right now.
48:49
[SPEAKER_04]: You see her as a villain?
48:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
48:55
[SPEAKER_00]: You see her as a bad trope?
48:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't see her as a villain, I don't see her as a anti-hero, I see her as a device.
49:05
[SPEAKER_05]: Make a plot mechanic.
49:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, to to set up the set up.
49:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's fair enough.
49:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, sure enough.
49:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's not she's not not that.
49:20
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no.
49:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she is.
49:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, her.
49:25
[SPEAKER_00]: She is in what way is she the cause of Bob being Bob.
49:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, who would get a pat, get a pat, why is he get a pat?
49:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he's with a black woman, because he's running around with black people.
49:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So now he's get a pat, fuck out of here.
49:47
[SPEAKER_00]: But why is Bob in this state that he's in?
49:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it because he was left to raise a child and he had no idea how to do so?
50:02
[SPEAKER_00]: around him to help him with perfidious daughter.
50:06
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, to be fair, she was with perfidious family and what is what I'm saying.
50:12
[SPEAKER_05]: When she turned, they had to bug out.
50:15
[SPEAKER_05]: And so, and everybody had to disperse, right?
50:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's found no community.
50:22
[SPEAKER_00]: She's trying to find community, right, as young people often do.
50:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Where is Bob in his malaise and what is his malaise all about?
50:38
[SPEAKER_04]: I think he's a commentary on the generation.
50:42
[SPEAKER_04]: You could either read it in the source material as sort of the baby boomer, whether underground, or you could read it as sort of, you know, Gen X, whatever.
50:52
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think there's a generational commentary on the inadequacy, the impotency of the generation
51:06
[SPEAKER_04]: bring America to its promise and failed so miserably that this is what it looks like.
51:13
[SPEAKER_04]: This guy just getting high on the couch.
51:16
[SPEAKER_04]: He can't even, you know, he's not great at anything except for going out and driving drunk home.
51:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like this is PTA's commentary on how what an utter failure his generation was and the sad state that they left the world in.
51:36
[SPEAKER_00]: But then it ends with him, you know, raising this badass woman, so how much of a failure could he be?
51:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you give him any credit for her at all.
51:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I don't know if I'm willing to give up any credit for her at all.
51:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you have, I think we have to.
52:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we have to.
52:00
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, you.
52:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I often think about the world that I'll leave behind, right?
52:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I want that world to be for I know I'm not going to see it.
52:22
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm going to do everything in my power to try to usher in that world.
52:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Will I see that world?
52:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably not, just like generations of people before me have tried to make the world a better place.
52:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of them didn't see it as a better place.
52:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I come from people who were, you know, could not even imagine where they're as they're, you know, future generations would be how they would live in.
52:55
[SPEAKER_00]: they didn't understand what was going to happen.
52:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Black folks in this country who were enslaved, fighting for freedom, and 1800, I don't know if they thought they would see freedom in the way that we have freedom currently.
53:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So the failure, yes, I think what PTA is doing is a commentary
53:24
[SPEAKER_00]: But for me, thinking of failure, I can't see it that way because most of the things that we want, we may not end up seeing, but we've pushed the envelope a little bit further.
53:44
[SPEAKER_00]: We've made the race, we've passed the baton, and I think that's what Bob has done.
53:50
[SPEAKER_00]: right is he a in a shit place absolutely right but he partook in something to try to shift it forward and with his daughter he actually has I okay all right look man
54:12
[SPEAKER_04]: That's, it's very moving.
54:13
[SPEAKER_04]: I, I grew up in New England, California with a bunch of burn-out hippies.
54:20
[SPEAKER_03]: That's my, that's my experience, man.
54:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I know Bob, I feel like I'm becoming Bob.
54:28
[SPEAKER_04]: You know a lot of Bob, so again, I have a little bit of Bob in me right now.
54:32
[SPEAKER_04]: So.
54:33
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I want to believe.
54:36
[SPEAKER_04]: I do want to believe.
54:38
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to hear that.
54:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to have the feeling of hope that this movie conveys at the end.
54:44
[SPEAKER_04]: I was kind of surprised by this movie end.
54:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I was not expecting that from a PTA movie.
54:51
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a part of me that just feels pretty cynical.
54:54
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, no man, those Christmas adventures.
54:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, there's still, there's still in charge.
54:59
[SPEAKER_04]: I, there's what can I do?
55:01
[SPEAKER_04]: I, I, I, I feel cynical.
55:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Say that way though.
55:04
[SPEAKER_04]: We all feel that way.
55:06
[SPEAKER_04]: We all feel cynical the same.
55:07
[SPEAKER_04]: But I will, I'll say that like, there's a little bit of like, just listening to some, you know, some music, you know, watching an old film on the couch.
55:17
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, trying to figure out how to take a selfie on my phone that I've that's a little bit of me that's it's just a little bit of me.
55:24
[SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know, I I There's a lot of this movie that I do not relate to for sure So do you relate to in the movie?
55:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, Bob, that's true.
55:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I relate to Bob, for sure.
55:40
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, this movie is sort of built on my landscape.
55:43
[SPEAKER_04]: This is sort of a lot of California landscape in this film.
55:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, a lot of sort of like I grew up in sort of like rolling the aftermath of the 60s, you know, sort of all the, all the hippies moving out to the country.
55:59
[SPEAKER_04]: and trying to figure out what they're going to do with their lives after the sixties have sort of run its course.
56:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
56:07
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a fair bit of that in it.
56:11
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I lived in Zimbabwe for a while.
56:12
[SPEAKER_04]: I saw what sort of a revolutionary state looks like when the roof revolutionaries are finally in charge.
56:20
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, there was a little bit of that.
56:22
[SPEAKER_04]: I felt a little bit of that in this film.
56:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, I, I think that this is kind of a classic PTA exploration of human depravity and human absurdity and I feel like there's a lot of themes in his other movies that came through in this movie.
56:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I think there's a lot of co-in brothers in this movie.
56:44
[SPEAKER_04]: I think there's a lot of Squarespace in this movie.
56:46
[SPEAKER_04]: So I like those sort of, you know, sort of an image of an art form.
56:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, I, I think to go back to what you were saying before, it's really the absurd things that I can't relate to that I found most entertaining.
57:02
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, in the case, yeah, yeah, so I don't know.
57:06
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I'm not settled in this movie.
57:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to, you know what, I'm going to rewatch this with, uh, your, your commentary in my head for sure.
57:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Jump by you David.
57:15
[SPEAKER_04]: I appreciate that.
57:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what about you David, what, what, what, what's the drawing point to you for this for the movie?
57:27
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to, I'm just trying to think of what to lead off with.
57:31
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
57:31
[SPEAKER_05]: There's, I walked out of that movie.
57:37
[SPEAKER_05]: And I said this on the podcast a couple times, you know, I was pretty shocked by the movie, but not,
57:45
[SPEAKER_05]: shook to my core, but like it was affecting.
57:48
[SPEAKER_05]: I with my my state of being was affected by the experience, the cinematic experience.
58:00
[SPEAKER_05]: What every filmmaker can only hope for for their audience is to be.
58:08
[SPEAKER_05]: transported for the runtime of the movie to be to feel a disassociation where you're not watching your clock, you're not thinking about you know doing the dishes when you get home or your mortgage payment or you know any of that stuff and just being with the characters which are being portrayed on screen and this movie did that to me.
58:35
[SPEAKER_05]: and not many movies do that for me in this day and age.
58:40
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of bad movies.
58:44
[SPEAKER_05]: And so to be transported in that way and then to be delivered on in this day when we're watching what I'm watching this stuff on my little phone,
59:00
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm thousands of miles away from Chicago from LA, from San Francisco, from Portland, hundreds of, you know, not so many miles from New York and seeing this same level of bullshit going on and seeing, you know,
59:19
[SPEAKER_05]: Certain, there was a video today where it was that the head of Border Patrol was like marching around outside of some laundry mats somewhere, and I'm like, that's a lock jaw.
59:28
[SPEAKER_05]: That brother right there is lock jaw in like in our world right now.
59:47
[SPEAKER_05]: were very present for me after words and watched.
59:51
[SPEAKER_05]: I hadn't seen it, but then I went and watched how to blow up a pipeline.
59:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't seen that.
59:56
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, this movie is totally in conversation with that.
59:59
[SPEAKER_05]: And then we'd seen Civil War last year, right?
1:00:05
[SPEAKER_05]: We had some podcasts about that.
1:00:06
[SPEAKER_05]: So that was a disturbing thing.
1:00:08
[SPEAKER_05]: So these movies are active in present for me in the context of this movie.
1:00:15
[SPEAKER_05]: and thinking about how the historicity of revolution and radical action in this country, people set off bombs in the parliament, aren't a parlos, in the Congress.
1:00:30
[SPEAKER_05]: I believe it was Puerto Rican radicals, who tried to detonate a bomb in Congress.
1:00:39
[SPEAKER_05]: We've had all kinds of the whiskey rebellion.
1:00:40
[SPEAKER_05]: We've had all kinds of skirmishes and fights.
1:00:46
[SPEAKER_05]: We've had concentration camps.
1:00:49
[SPEAKER_05]: We've interned, quote, unquote, interned people.
1:00:52
[SPEAKER_05]: We've done a lot of things have happened in this country.
1:00:54
[SPEAKER_05]: And I feel shook right now because I'm watching all these little crazy images on my phone and being affected by them.
1:01:04
[SPEAKER_05]: But I'm also trying to think about the historicity of what Sensei said, which is like, you know,
1:01:12
[SPEAKER_05]: power, people who are power and people who don't have power, the asymmetry there, we've been doing this for a while, so it's cool.
1:01:21
[SPEAKER_05]: And like, cool out, like, don't, you know, you got to fight, you got to do your things, but like, don't freak out about it.
1:01:28
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
1:01:28
[SPEAKER_05]: It's all, it's all a piece.
1:01:31
[SPEAKER_05]: And then, yeah, there's the absurdism of office buildings that have poison gas, capabilities and trash shoots that can drop bodies down them, however many floors.
1:01:44
[SPEAKER_05]: And, but we know that there is, we know that that
1:01:50
[SPEAKER_05]: There are certain segments in the society, some religious, some not, some about skin color and other things that are trying to absolutely shape the destiny of millions of people and then there's a father and daughter story.
1:02:11
[SPEAKER_05]: And as a dad to a daughter, right, I could center myself and that I'm not a burned out, but I could certainly appreciate some of what, you know, Bob's got going on, not.
1:02:24
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not an lived experience of mine, but, you know, I'm not a burned out hippie.
1:02:28
[SPEAKER_05]: But so for me, there's all of these things and more, right, and there's more going on as well,
1:02:40
[SPEAKER_05]: was like he, he suspended my brain and then he put all this stuff in front of me and I'm still trying to sort it out and unpack it because it's not this movie isn't one thing.
1:02:55
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not, it's not going to touch the station to pick up some power converters, right?
1:03:03
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not a slasher film, you know, a horror thing.
1:03:07
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not anything that's straightforward and simple.
1:03:12
[SPEAKER_05]: And so, when regardless of what,
1:03:18
[SPEAKER_05]: PTA intentionally encoded into the visual images, versus what we decode from them, and when we apply our own meanings, I don't know him, I don't know his story, I know a little bit of biographical, you know, details about him, but yeah, they're facts.
1:03:39
[SPEAKER_05]: But there's nothing that I really understand that his relationships and where he is.
1:03:45
[SPEAKER_05]: And this guy's been working on this, where he read a book 20 years ago and he's been sitting on this thing for a long time.
1:03:54
[SPEAKER_05]: Great.
1:03:54
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know what kind of message is that he's picking up from the zeitgeist and then folding into this.
1:04:00
[SPEAKER_05]: How did he think about this for 20 years and then make this?
1:04:05
[SPEAKER_05]: And what's going on with immigration in this country today is, and what we see on screen is show poignant to what we see in our, is going on literally in this country, blows my mind that this guy can do that.
1:04:23
[SPEAKER_05]: and give me a renewed sense of, oh shit, like the stakes are real right now.
1:04:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me guess this.
1:04:33
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm curious.
1:04:34
[SPEAKER_04]: And maybe this is sort of more of a rabbit question.
1:04:37
[SPEAKER_04]: So you can say it for later if you want, but do you feel like this movie is a net positive?
1:04:46
[SPEAKER_04]: for people that want to see change in this country?
1:04:50
[SPEAKER_04]: Or do you feel like it's a negative because of what it could have been and maybe the tropes that got in the way?
1:05:00
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess that would be to both of us.
1:05:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, to both of you.
1:05:07
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a positive because it's generated so much discussion.
1:05:15
[SPEAKER_05]: I will say that I haven't gone far and wide to read and consume a lot of stuff.
1:05:26
[SPEAKER_05]: I've just been pretty much in my little information bubble, mostly other podcasts, a few
1:05:40
[SPEAKER_05]: in, you know, whether you liked it, he didn't, whatever, performances and Oscar contention and this and that and the thing is is that even, and I'm aware of there is critique and criticism.
1:05:57
[SPEAKER_05]: And that even the criticism is a, is not positive because I have not heard, I haven't gone to those corners, but I, I have, I personally have not run into any bad faith on conversations or critiques of the movie, but of course, I've selected what I listen and read, you know, engage with.
1:06:20
[SPEAKER_05]: So it makes me feel okay that there is a lot of, a lot of,
1:06:27
[SPEAKER_05]: people with a level of introspection and respectful discourse saying, I didn't like this, or this was interesting, or what, so for me, there is a level of net positivity.
1:06:47
[SPEAKER_05]: for this movie being out there.
1:06:50
[SPEAKER_05]: And I would say, private facia evidence would be, you know, I've been on, you know, the I've produced three podcasts, I will have produced three podcasts, and I was a guest on one other one.
1:07:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
1:07:01
[SPEAKER_05]: All of the conversation has been respectful.
1:07:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:07:05
[SPEAKER_05]: It has been a good faith has been,
1:07:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, okay, I get that point like I don't agree with your point, but I get it and and I will appreciate you have yeah, I feel like I've heard people say this is basically progressive propaganda and I kind of felt like to push back to say like these people are not These aren't these are not heroic people that are being split.
1:07:35
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think I think chase infinity.
1:07:39
[SPEAKER_04]: is basically wholesale protagonists for sure, but I'm not sure if anyone else is in this movie.
1:07:47
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think that that's maybe kind of simple.
1:07:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that maybe a bad faith criticism.
1:07:52
[SPEAKER_05]: Of course there's bad faith criticism out there.
1:07:55
[SPEAKER_05]: I just haven't got to have a relationship.
1:07:57
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and all of the interactions that I've been having,
1:08:01
[SPEAKER_05]: around it and things that I've chosen to read have been the kind of things I'm like, okay, this is cool.
1:08:09
[SPEAKER_05]: Like this is like real discourse.
1:08:11
[SPEAKER_05]: And this is something that is healthy and it's a muscle that we need to exercise because in a society that is so sociologically fragmented,
1:08:22
[SPEAKER_05]: to have a monocultural event where we can kind of share some viewpoints from around the spectrum that's pretty good.
1:08:33
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't get these this often anymore because of, you know, where, where and how people are getting schooling, social economic strata,
1:08:50
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a real fragmented mass right now and so that at least some portion of the country is having some kind of healthy discourse to me and again, I'm my selection as biased.
1:09:09
[SPEAKER_05]: But that makes me feel like, that's cool.
1:09:12
[SPEAKER_05]: That's good.
1:09:12
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm glad that there is this quality of conversation happening in the world.
1:09:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Sean, let's just frame it this way.
1:09:20
[SPEAKER_04]: In terms of it being a social commentary, and that necessarily sort of just like a work of visual art, is this movie, do you feel like a net positive or a net negative?
1:09:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a positive because simply because it has people talking about what is actually playing out in our real world.
1:09:53
[SPEAKER_00]: right like oh my gosh this is just like the movie i've heard that and the more people and when i say people white people the more people um who engage and say the horrific things that are
1:10:14
[SPEAKER_00]: being done daily throughout this country in our real world and somehow connecting dots can only be a positive thing.
1:10:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even engage with the bad faith stuff.
1:10:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I really don't because
1:10:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll never be able to reach, right?
1:10:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I won't have conversations with people in bad faith.
1:10:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I won't, I refuse to, but for the people who are grappling with what they're saying on their phones, on their TV screens, on their tablets, and saying, man, I just watch this movie and this movie is showing all of these things,
1:11:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they go home, and they're talking about the movie, and they turn on whatever they turn on, and they're seeing the exact same things happening.
1:11:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can only hope that it leads to further introspection and further conversation and further action, no matter what, small action or great, large actions, they may be.
1:11:28
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it can be a positive, I think it is a positive actually.
1:11:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I let off.
1:11:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I said I didn't hate the movie.
1:11:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I like it like the movie.
1:11:38
[SPEAKER_04]: This has been fun.
1:11:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I appreciate this conversation.
1:11:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's for pulling together, David.
1:11:43
[SPEAKER_04]: That was good.
1:11:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Good stuff.
1:11:46
[SPEAKER_05]: I was just glad that we were able to
1:11:51
[SPEAKER_05]: get a lineup, I mean, I was looking forward to talking to Jean.
1:11:54
[SPEAKER_05]: I always want to talk to Jean, right?
1:11:55
[SPEAKER_05]: He's my boy.
1:11:56
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, we've been nagging for a while.
1:11:58
[SPEAKER_05]: Happy anniversary, by the way.
1:12:00
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, you, too.
1:12:02
[SPEAKER_05]: I meant my wife at Jean's wedding.
1:12:05
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, is it right?
1:12:05
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
1:12:06
[SPEAKER_05]: Where our families are pretty connected.
1:12:09
[SPEAKER_05]: But I was really looking forward to having both of you on the podcast because I, yeah, I think the, I was looking forward to this kind of conversation, right, and this is the net positive of, yeah, for sure.
1:12:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And before we go this to start out beneath your del Toro.
1:12:26
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, James, because Sensei was on everything, you know, I so enjoyed his character, I so enjoyed watching somebody who's in control, in this chaotic situation, and knows exactly what he needs to do and putting emphasis on the chess boy saying, okay, this is how we're
1:12:56
[SPEAKER_00]: so great.
1:12:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, shout out to him as an actor, as a performer, and also a writer.
1:13:02
[SPEAKER_04]: According to PTA, he wrote most of that guy's story.
1:13:07
[SPEAKER_04]: So all of the scenes with the sort of the underground and the you know, the the organization, um,
1:13:15
[SPEAKER_04]: That was all his in his head.
1:13:17
[SPEAKER_04]: He said, we sat down, he basically pts said, it took me, you know, 10 years to write the script, but the best scenes of the movie were written in one night with, with Benicio de Otoro, and it's totally true.
1:13:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Those are the best scenes of the movie.
1:13:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Best scenes of the movie.
1:13:35
[SPEAKER_00]: That is awesome.
1:13:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And also shout out to, look, listen to this guys, if we had his name,
1:13:45
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, because I know jerks like that, you know what I'm saying?
1:13:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I love it.
1:13:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I love them.
1:13:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are my home.
1:13:59
[SPEAKER_00]: These are my peoples.
1:14:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I love them the death.
1:14:02
[SPEAKER_00]: But.
1:14:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he hit something and I was like, yo, I know dudes like this, right?
1:14:07
[SPEAKER_00]: This is crazy.
1:14:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they're not going to give you the past, nah, Jay, you got to know.
1:14:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to know Jay.
1:14:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to know it.
1:14:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell me what it is.
1:14:15
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you talking about?
1:14:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Just give me what I'm asking you.
1:14:19
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I am.
1:14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: You have children.
1:14:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have children.
1:14:23
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of mercy.
1:14:24
[SPEAKER_00]: That guy was great.
1:14:25
[SPEAKER_00]: That whole, that entire, you know, back and forth was a great thread.
1:14:31
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, just a wee bit.
1:14:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
1:14:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, action.
1:14:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Just great.
1:14:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Just great.
1:14:35
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's to me, you know, going back to what's up with this film is that this is we've seen in the last few years.
1:14:46
[SPEAKER_05]: a lot of big name male directors kind of swinging out with their swansong movies and a lot of them aren't so great, right?
1:15:00
[SPEAKER_05]: They're not pull, you know, Anthony, I were talking off Mike just a little bit ago about, um,
1:15:07
[SPEAKER_05]: about George R. Martin, writing a couple of books in Song of Ice and Fire, if I can paraphrase what you were saying, which was, you know, he could have probably used an editor, but who's going to edit him at that stage in his career?
1:15:19
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
1:15:20
[SPEAKER_05]: Who's going to edit Ridley Scott?
1:15:22
[SPEAKER_05]: Who's going to edit Scorsesey?
1:15:24
[SPEAKER_05]: Who's going to edit Coppola?
1:15:25
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
1:15:25
[SPEAKER_05]: Coppola?
1:15:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
1:15:27
[SPEAKER_05]: What was that?
1:15:28
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a bunch of them, right?
1:15:30
[SPEAKER_05]: They're the latest high and low, high and low, what's his name, Spike Lee's?
1:15:34
[SPEAKER_05]: movie, right?
1:15:35
[SPEAKER_05]: There, there, there.
1:15:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, it's a countdown.
1:15:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that movie.
1:15:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's do that one.
1:15:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait
1:15:53
[SPEAKER_05]: I got to finish the movie because I turned it off after 20 minutes.
1:15:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's where you say a more about you than it is a boss fight.
1:16:00
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where you went on.
1:16:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we missed a lot.
1:16:03
[SPEAKER_00]: You missed a lot.
1:16:04
[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about it.
1:16:05
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
1:16:06
[SPEAKER_00]: This sucks.
1:16:09
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe I need to back up off of Kurosau because I watched the Kurosau and just before I watched his movie.
1:16:15
[SPEAKER_05]: and there's it's very hard to compare anything to to Kurosawa's high and low because that was a master piece of a move.
1:16:23
[SPEAKER_05]: That is a masterpiece of a movie.
1:16:25
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a movie.
1:16:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I've watched that almost as much as I've watched high and low.
1:16:29
[SPEAKER_05]: So you mentioned the you know it's all right.
1:16:32
[SPEAKER_05]: High and low.
1:16:32
[SPEAKER_05]: It's on.
1:16:33
[SPEAKER_05]: We're doing this.
1:16:33
[SPEAKER_05]: It's okay.
1:16:34
[SPEAKER_05]: We're doing it.
1:16:35
[SPEAKER_05]: We're doing it.
1:16:35
[SPEAKER_05]: We'll figure out a schedule.
1:16:36
[SPEAKER_05]: I get a, you know, we're going to we'll get it all in though.
1:16:39
[SPEAKER_04]: You mentioned George R. Martin, I would be remiss if I didn't shout out electric Boogaloo, do a search for Game of Thrones, electric Boogaloo or Hot D. And you will hear my chapter by chapter review of the George R. R. Martin universe.
1:17:02
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to jump
1:17:05
[SPEAKER_04]: And which is kind of a parallel universe, and then we'll jump into Storm of Swords in a few weeks.
1:17:12
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
1:17:12
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's what's happening with me elsewhere.
1:17:17
[SPEAKER_05]: Ticking it back up.
1:17:18
[SPEAKER_05]: John you are doing some Marvel zombies up there.
1:17:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we got Marvel zombies on deck this week so it'll be out sometime.
1:17:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
1:17:30
[SPEAKER_00]: This, this, this hope that that all production is not cursed because a lot of the Marvel productions have been cursed for speaking to Lisa with the different things happening, but
1:17:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're pensive in for tomorrow actually, you guys had to get so much to say about peacemaker You had to split it through episodes great in this a great great great great TV program just Just an excellent show I'm gonna see if I can pick it back up before the end of the year.
1:17:55
[SPEAKER_05]: I just have been in the spirit of spiritual mode Yeah, watch peacemaker right now.
1:17:59
[SPEAKER_05]: I just roll an alpha alien earth.
1:18:01
[SPEAKER_05]: That was a lot.
1:18:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a different animal Definitely literally
1:18:06
[SPEAKER_05]: Cool, all right fellas, I just I'll put a bug in your ear because we are coming up at the end of the year.
1:18:12
[SPEAKER_05]: So I will be making the rounds again to get your top picks for the end of the year.
1:18:18
[SPEAKER_05]: Nice, cool, special Christmas episode coming up.
1:18:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I look forward to it.
1:18:23
[SPEAKER_00]: The year's not over.
1:18:24
[SPEAKER_00]: No, we still got some stuff to come out.
1:18:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, try guys.
1:18:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you guys.
1:18:28
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, we've got a skitter away.
1:18:30
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, good.
1:18:31
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, peace out.
1:19:01
[SPEAKER_05]: The Laura Hound podcast is produced in published by the Laura Hounds.
1:19:06
[SPEAKER_05]: You can send questions and comments to Laurahounds at thewarhounds.com.
1:19:11
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1:19:18
[SPEAKER_05]: Links for everything are in the link tree in the show notes of this episode.
1:19:21
[SPEAKER_05]: Any opinions stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.
1:19:28
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for listening.