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Mark interviews author Mark Malkoff. · The Mark Simone Show

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  Speaker 1: Give WR Obre said on the iHeartRadio app.
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  Speaker 2: To hear Mark Simone and all the WR hosts in
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  Speaker 2: an instance. Now back to the Mark Simon Show on
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  Speaker 2: wor Well.
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  Speaker 1: You know, there's been a lot of books about Johnny Carson,
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  Speaker 1: but nothing like this. The Definitive Ultimate Johnny Carson book
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  Speaker 1: came out last year. I urge you to get it.
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  Speaker 1: It's the greatest book ever on Carson. It's uncovered everything
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  Speaker 1: you could ever know about him. It's called Love Johnny Carson.
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  Speaker 1: It's by Mark Malkoff. He also does the Carson Podcast.
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  Speaker 1: There's about four hundred episodes you can listen to with
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  Speaker 1: anybody and everybody who was ever involved with the Tonight Show.
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  Speaker 1: But get the book, Love Johnny Carson, by Mark Malcoff.
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  Speaker 1: You won't be able to put it down. And he's
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  Speaker 1: with us now, Mark Malkoff, how you doing.
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  Speaker 2: Mark, I'm doing great.
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  Speaker 3: Nice to Tasch you again.
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  Speaker 1: Hey. The Oscars last night made me think of Carson.
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  Speaker 1: He has been how many years was the Oscar host?
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  Speaker 1: Many years?
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  Speaker 2: It was four or five years. Is the only Oscar
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  Speaker 2: host in the history. No teleprompter, no que cards. He
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  Speaker 2: memorized everything, the opening monologue, he would edit the jokes
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  Speaker 2: in his head depending on how he did with the
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  Speaker 2: crowd with each joke. I mean that guy was on
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  Speaker 2: a different level as a host, probably the greatest Oscar
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  Speaker 2: host of all time.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, he did that with the Tonight Show. You know,
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  Speaker 1: got like Jay Leno had to work on the monologue
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  Speaker 1: to get the jokes in just the right order. But Carson,
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  Speaker 1: You're right, the Tonight Show would just jumble up jokes,
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  Speaker 1: move them around, switch whatever you had to do.
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  Speaker 3: Uh.
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  Speaker 1: And I think the only hoster ever that do that right.
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  Speaker 1: Everyone else had the Q cards.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was at Johnny was effortless. I
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  Speaker 2: mean he had a phote, he took a photograph, a
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  Speaker 2: memory class.
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  Speaker 3: And he could learn.
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  Speaker 2: He learned Russian, he learned Swahili, he took Spanish classes
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  Speaker 2: and between shows in Las Vegas. I mean the guy
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  Speaker 2: was unbelievable in terms of his intellect.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, now you should get the book Love Johnny Carson,
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  Speaker 1: and the book is wonderful. You're gonna love Johnny Carson
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  Speaker 1: even more when you read it. But we've had you
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  Speaker 1: on a number two. We never talked about the bad stuff.
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  Speaker 1: I thought we did just well during the New York years.
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  Speaker 1: He was a big drinker and apparently a lot of affairs, cheating,
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  Speaker 1: not just him but the wife too.
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  Speaker 3: Correct that's true.
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  Speaker 2: I mean Johnny would talk on this Tonight show about
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  Speaker 2: how we struggled with drinking. It was one of those
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  Speaker 2: things in New York where he was so famous. He
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  Speaker 2: would go into a restaurant or a bar and people
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  Speaker 2: would constantly be sending over drinks, and he tried to
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  Speaker 2: be polite, take a sip, and he was a lightweight.
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  Speaker 2: So after a few drinks, as Carson acknowledged, he would
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  Speaker 2: turn into Attilla the Hunt. And in the spring of
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  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one, Johnny was at Jillies on fifty second
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  Speaker 2: straight world famous Jilly Sinastra territory. He was with Ed
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  Speaker 2: McMahon and Ed's manager Robert Coe, and Carson had way
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  Speaker 2: too much to drink, and mobster Joey Gallo had just
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  Speaker 2: gotten out of prison after serving a decade who was
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  Speaker 2: locked away just got out. As at Jilli's, Gallo is
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  Speaker 2: with his girlfriend, goes to the bathroom, gallow does and
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  Speaker 2: Johnny unfortunately didn't remember this because he was drunk, but
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  Speaker 2: he did something highly inappropriate to gallow his girlfriend. Jilly
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  Speaker 2: Rizzo told Ed get Carson the blank out of here,
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  Speaker 2: which he did. And then Gallo came back and discovered
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  Speaker 2: what Carson did, and he put a hit on Johnny's life,
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  Speaker 2: and two things happened. One, Carson wisely got his good
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  Speaker 2: friend Frank Sinatra to intervene. Sinatra knew Gallo, he knew
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  Speaker 2: some of the mafia figures. So Sinatra sat down with
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  Speaker 2: gallow they need a favor, and he said, anything, I
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  Speaker 2: need you to leave Johnny Carson alone. And Galo got
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  Speaker 2: really upset, but he said, you tell Carson the only
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  Speaker 2: reason he lives and breathes is because he knows Frank Sinatra.
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  Speaker 2: And then the second thing is NBC. Carson was twenty
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  Speaker 2: five percent of NBC's profits at one point, and to
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  Speaker 2: appease the acting mafia don in New York City Joe Colombo,
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  Speaker 2: NBC News they aired a positive story in nineteen seventy
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  Speaker 2: one on Joe Colombo and his Italian American Civil Rights
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  Speaker 2: League for no reason. I mean I watched it with
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  Speaker 2: my own eye.
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  Speaker 1: And you don't mean they ran a piece during the news.
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  Speaker 1: I mean they created a primetime special.
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  Speaker 2: For this right they did it was with prime time
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  Speaker 2: because they would have higher ratings. They were really worried
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  Speaker 2: about this and it aired in prime time and I
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  Speaker 2: look at that and I was like, it was just
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  Speaker 2: why would they do this? And they just, you know,
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  Speaker 2: Carson was their cash cow. I mean, he was the
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  Speaker 2: most important person to the network and then Bob Hope.
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  Speaker 2: So they did that, and that was how Johnny was
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  Speaker 2: able to keep his life. I mean he would go
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  Speaker 2: to the Copa cabana and Jerry Vale was opening up
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  Speaker 2: the Copa and Carson again, two drinks and he was gone,
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  Speaker 2: and it was it was he ruined Jerry Vale's entire
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  Speaker 2: premiere and Carson Jerry Vale's Carson apologized for decades.
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  Speaker 1: Show.
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  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, you just did not want to be around Johnny.
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  Speaker 2: But he would talk about it on the Tonight Show.
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  Speaker 3: We talked about it with Mike Wallace.
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  Speaker 2: It was a struggle of his really didn't get a
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  Speaker 2: hold of it until nineteen eighty two after he got
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  Speaker 2: unfortunately arrested for drinking and driving, and three months prior
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  Speaker 2: on the Tonight Showy was warning people you do not
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  Speaker 2: want to drink and during the holidays, and then three
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  Speaker 2: months later, of course, Johnny, but it was a struggle
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  Speaker 2: of his and then obviously the marriage is married.
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  Speaker 3: Four times he would talk about the struggles.
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  Speaker 2: But yeah, unfortunately in nineteen this has also happened in
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  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one, Johnny. This was wife number two, Joeanne,
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  Speaker 2: who was the one that really convinced Johnny to take
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  Speaker 2: the Tonight Show because Johnny and everybody said, don't you
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  Speaker 2: don't want to take over for Jack part, No one's.
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  Speaker 3: Going to succeed.
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  Speaker 2: So she, unfortunately had caught Carson in some compromising situations
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  Speaker 2: with women, and she wanted to make Carson jealous. So
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  Speaker 2: she was going on the weekends to race card races,
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  Speaker 2: race car she loved race car driving. She started having
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  Speaker 2: an affair with Peter Revson, a race car driver, a
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  Speaker 2: playboy race car driver who's the heir to the Revlon throne.
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  Speaker 2: That's what the media said. Carson found out she had
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  Speaker 2: a secret apartment and he had a private investigator who
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  Speaker 2: you were actually friends with. Joy. Carson was crying when
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  Speaker 2: he found out that Joe Anne was cheating on him
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  Speaker 2: and changed the locks on their apartment and it was over,
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  Speaker 2: and it was a really really sad thing. But you know,
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  Speaker 2: Carson just I mean temptation with the ladies. He couldn't
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  Speaker 2: turn it down. He didn't turn them down very often.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. So so he's cheating with other women and she's
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  Speaker 1: going away every weekend to go watch races. But yeah,
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  Speaker 1: is that smart that your husband's a cheater and you
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  Speaker 1: leave them alone on the weekends?
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  Speaker 3: That I don't know about that.
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  Speaker 2: It was one of those things where Johnny, for whatever reason,
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  Speaker 2: and men of his generation thought it was totally fine
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  Speaker 2: for the husband. There was nothing they would say, it
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  Speaker 2: was nothing emotional about it, just physical. But if their
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  Speaker 2: wives did it for whatever reason, it was like the
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  Speaker 2: worst thing that they could possibly do. But yeah, Joanne
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  Speaker 2: was probably not smart about that. And then she of
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  Speaker 2: course moved to California and moved with Truman Capodi, who
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  Speaker 2: also has neighbors with Johnny and.
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  Speaker 3: The un Plausa. Can you believe this?
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  Speaker 2: Bobby Kennedy, Truman Capoti, David Suskin, Angela Lansbury, Yule Brenner.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, it was just a cavalcade of talent in
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  Speaker 2: this one place. And then yeah, Truman Capodi in White
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  Speaker 2: Number two moved to la and they lived there until
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  Speaker 2: they passed away.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that un Plaza back in nineteen sixty four
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  Speaker 1: sixty five. That was the premier apartment building of New York.
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  Speaker 3: It really wise.
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  Speaker 2: I mean it was that's where Johnny met Sonny Werblin,
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  Speaker 2: who owned the New York Jets, who became his business partner,
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  Speaker 2: and they opened the clothing line and made Johnny a
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  Speaker 2: rich ben.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. Now, hey, get the book. Most of it is
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  Speaker 1: positive and Johnny.
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  Speaker 3: Carson, if you had to take exactly that's true.
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  Speaker 1: Wonderful guy. We're just focusing on the bad stuff here
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  Speaker 1: first because we never got to it before. And there
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  Speaker 1: were people that got themselves banned from the Tonight show
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  Speaker 1: because Johnny would have a problem with him.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I counked to four hundred people when I'm
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  Speaker 2: talking to people that were on the very first show,
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  Speaker 2: like mel Brooks, to people that were you know, one
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  Speaker 2: of the last guest in nineteen ninety to, so you
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  Speaker 2: have thirty years of people. The one thing Carson did
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  Speaker 2: the test it was rudeness, especially to his staff. And
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  Speaker 2: he was, you know, from Nebraska, and he was very
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  Speaker 2: much about having good manners. And Jerry Lewis was really
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  Speaker 2: rude to Carson's staff. Carson said, he is never coming back.
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  Speaker 2: He would not tolerate rudeness. He would not tolerate comedians
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  Speaker 2: coming on for that we're debuting that did material that
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  Speaker 2: might offend his audience. So unfortunately, Ellen DeGeneres on her
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  Speaker 2: third appearance, did an offensive joke that Carson asked her
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  Speaker 2: not to do, and she did, and she was banned
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  Speaker 2: on the show from the show. So there were a
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  Speaker 2: bunch of people, maybe like thirty people that were not
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  Speaker 2: welcomed on the show anymore. I mean, William Shatner was
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  Speaker 2: somebody that wouldn't let Johnny get a word in, and
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  Speaker 2: Johnny detested that, and then Shatner turned his back to
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  Speaker 2: Carson to talk to the previous guests, Buddy Hackett, and
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  Speaker 2: then Shatner back then, you weren't allowed to believe it
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  Speaker 2: or not. You remember that you weren't allowed to say
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  Speaker 2: what network your show was on unless it was NBC.
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  Speaker 2: They say on another network, And of course Shatner says,
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  Speaker 2: watched me Saturday nights on ABC TJ.
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  Speaker 3: Hooker.
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  Speaker 2: So Johnny basically said, three strikes, you're out, and we
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  Speaker 2: go into everyone that was banned and.
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  Speaker 3: Why they were banned.
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  Speaker 2: Rich little to this, almost to this day would he
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  Speaker 2: asked me, why do you know why I was banned,
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  Speaker 2: and I was able with my reporting to figure that
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  Speaker 2: out why these people were gone from Carson Show, and
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  Speaker 2: even his friend Carl Sagan, the famous astronomer. Unfortunately, after
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  Speaker 2: ten or twelve appearances, was banned from the show.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, but he remained friends with him. He'd still go
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  Speaker 1: to dinner with him.
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  Speaker 3: He did.
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  Speaker 2: Unfortunately, he interrupted Carson twice during a segment to correct him,
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  Speaker 2: and it was very abrupt, and Johnny was embarrassed and
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  Speaker 2: thought it was poor manners.
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  Speaker 3: And he never had him on.
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  Speaker 2: He did stay friends with him, you know, he would
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  Speaker 2: have dinners with Carl Sagan, He would Jim Fowler, the
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  Speaker 2: wildlife expert. He went to San Diego to see the
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  Speaker 2: animals with Joana Embery at the San Diego Zo. Just
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  Speaker 2: a really really interested man in how things work. He
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  Speaker 2: really loved New York. I mean he pitched to Mickey
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  Speaker 2: Mantle in nineteen sixty two on the Tonight Show. He
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  Speaker 2: played with the jets at the Polo Grounds. He was
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  Speaker 2: diving out of planes. I mean, Mark, you and I
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  Speaker 2: talk about Johnny in the New York years. Unfortunately most
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  Speaker 2: of that footage is gone. But Johnny was on a
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  Speaker 2: different level, jumping out of the airplanes racing an Indianana
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  Speaker 2: motor speedway with Hernelli Jones going over one hundred miles
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  Speaker 2: an hour.
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  Speaker 3: It's a really really fun thirty years to look at.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it's a great book. I urge everybody to get it,
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  Speaker 1: the new book, and it's got all kinds of great
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  Speaker 1: things about Johnny Carson and everything you never knew about him.
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  Speaker 1: It's fascinating. It's called Love Johnny Carson by Mark Malkoff. Now,
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  Speaker 1: for those are gonna write to me, what was the
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  Speaker 1: name of that place? Love Johnny Carson by Mark Malkoff.
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  Speaker 1: Get the book. You're gonna love it. And listen to
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  Speaker 1: the Carson Podcast. He's got four hundred episodes that are amazing.
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  Speaker 1: But get the book, Love Johnny Carson, Mark Malkoff. It's
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  Speaker 1: on Amazon. Mark Malkoff, we'll do it again soon. Thanks
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  Speaker 1: for being with us.
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  Speaker 2: I would love that. Yet. We have some new episodes
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  Speaker 2: coming out and always good talking to you.
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  Speaker 3: Mark. Thank you so much.
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  Speaker 1: All right, take care, Hey, don't forget. Curtis is now
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: on the Morning show Curtis and Larry Curtis Lee, Larry Mint.
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  Speaker 1: It's every morning six to ten, seven ten, WR