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SMNTY Classics: The Original Star Wars Trilogy · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I'm welcome to Stefan never told you a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: And this is going to be one of our last
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Star Wars classics.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: For a little bit.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: So just a little bit, because there are a couple
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: of big anniversaries happening right now. As I said, it's
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: the fortieth anniversary of Returned the Jedi, the forty fifth
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: anniversary of a New Hope. There's been a lot of
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: celebrations around that. I've seen a lot of good articles
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: and tweets, so I'm just like having other time of
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: my life. And I also read a really good article
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I want to come back to you, thanks to my
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: friend Barry who sent it to me from tours. That's
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: called you All Forgot that Luke Skywalker is the Goat.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: And I read it and.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I was like, this is what I've never been able
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: to articulate it, but it was like really succinctly put
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: in my thoughts about like the Han Solo Luke Skywalker situation.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: So I want to come back and talk about that later.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: And it was just a fun read. It was just fun.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: That's what I like.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: I like when fandom can be like let's have a
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: good conversation about this and kind of make these really
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: nerdy jokes and references. And I'm having a lot of
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: that right now, so I'm very happy. But all of
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: that being said, I wanted to bring back this classic
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: at the time.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: It's a feminist movie. Wednesday. It will be a Saturday.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Probably when this one comes out on the original Star
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Wars trilogy, So please enjoy. Hey, this is Sanny and
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Samantha and I love from the Stefan Never Told You
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: production of iHeart Radio and happy Revenge of the Fifth.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: If you thought one Star Wars holiday was too much,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: how about you, Bair we are Yes, I love Revenge
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: of the Fifth the name right. I do feel bad
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: because today is also, as this episode comes out, if
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: you're listening to it, when it comes out, my little
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: brother's birthday, and I'm ashamed to admit I thought about
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Revenge of the Fifth first and then his birthday. But
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: to be fair, I once asked him. This was years
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: and years ago, but I once asked him name my birthday?
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: But when is it?
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: He said March seventh, So that's way, way way off.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: That's he's not even close.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: I don't think I know any of my siblings' birth
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: Oh that's not true. I know two of my siblings' birthday,
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: so the third one.
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: Sorry. I don't even know my parents' birthday really well.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: My dad's I finally figured it out, and my mom's
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: with hers with four days after mine.
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: So I'm not really good with days either.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I am excellent with dates. I know you why. It
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: is one of my weird things.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: In fact, there's that weird moment, like I know a
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: lot of people use Facebook for birthdays, but I usually
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: just kind of remember, there are friends I haven't talked
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: to you in forever, and I'll be like, oh, her
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: birthday is today? Should I? And then I feel like
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: it's weird if you haven't talked in a long time, right.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: I have one person who I kind of mentioned her
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: a little bit when we were talking about the Girl Games,
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: essentially the board games that we had, because she was
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: the rich friend I had who had all the games.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: I know her birthday.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: I know it so well, and I just I don't
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: know why and I haven't talked to her in twenty years.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Sometimes those things just get washed in.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like Revenge of the Fifth is a
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: relatively newer because I remember May the Fourth being around
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: when I was in high school, probably before that. But
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Revenge of the Fifth I've only really become aware of
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: in the past few years. I don't know if I
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: was just missing it like the last four years.
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: I think I figured out what it was.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm, I mean it's right there though, it's.
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: Right it is, But think about it for me, like
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: in syncs, it's going to be may That's the meme
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: that I see in my head time of thing. Those
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: are the things I know, sing de Mayo, which is
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: a complete excuse for white people to get real trashed
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: celebrating something that's not theirs.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Well today we are celebrating something different, alright. Yes, So
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: this is a feminist movie Wednesday, to be on the holiday.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: This has been a very busy week for me as
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: a Star Wars. So you can see the past up
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: said we did on the prequel trilogy, because these are
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: a bit different than our normal feminist movie Fridays, where
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: we pick one movie and do like themes and plot analysis.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: This is much more like kind of focusing in on
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: one character. However, and you might remember that we did
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: not one, but two episodes on Princess Leah already and
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: they were quite long, both of them, so you can
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: go find those if you want. We are going to
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: talk about some more about her and this, but we're
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: also going to talk about two women you might not
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: be familiar with who were vital to making these movies,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: and I'm really really excited to talk about them. We've
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: also done an episode on We've done a lot of
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: episodes on Star Wars. We've done one of the viewing
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: of it. We've done one on the feminism of Star Wars.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: We're going to do one on the sequel trilogy. They're
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: out there. We were talking about getting Holly on here
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: to talk about Rogue one, which I think would be fantastic.
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: I think we should.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Oh, I totally think we should.
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: I think I could just sit back and drink while
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: y'all do that.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: Except for when I yelled experts at you for not
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: telling me and warning me of things.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Of the ending.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Yes, I bet Holly would give me a stern talking
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: to as well. Actually it was a complete it. There
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: was nothing malicious behind it. I just get in my
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: own head sometimes and don't realize people don't know everything
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: about Star.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: Wars, as well as the fact that I am not
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: about tragedy, and so I have to give a heads up.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: And as for most people, normal people would be like,
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: I don't like spoiler little, I need all of them.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Right, Yes, well, I've learned my lesson and I'm trying
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: to do better.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to do better.
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: You've done well. You've done well. That is the one big,
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: a forgivable one, Oh, unforgivable. Now we'll see.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Well, the unforgivable part doesn't have it for now usually,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: but all.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: Right, I'm just saying, right now, it seems like it's
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: gonna be far, far, far.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Far away, like a certain galaxy. I see you did there.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: You can also listen to me and Holly talk about
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: the Empire strikes back on movie Crush, which, if you
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: want to hear like the most beautiful passionate nerdom that
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: you might not understand. It's for you. We're going to
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: do Return of the Jedi soon. I hope. I've already
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: got my outline. It's ready, it's ready. I think the
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: host of that show, Chuck is a little like, oh
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: he remembers you do forget. He won't forget, he won't
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: forget what and we're like, Chuck, we're talking. Also, I
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: forgot to bring up this when we did the prequels,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: which I think is actually a really good when we
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: were talking about the trauma and grooming of Anakin Skywalker
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: to become Darth Vader. Point is that a couple of
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: years ago, I was at Dragon Con, which is this
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: huge convention in Atlanta, and it was the panel of
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: voice actors and this young boy I would say like
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: four years old came up during the Q and A
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: portion and he asked, why is Darth Vader?
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: And we were all like, oh.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: How do we explain like evil and temptation and all
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: this stuff to this kid? And I brought this up
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: to my co host Lauren on Saber Podcast and she
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: said something like he is the result of many systems
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: of society failing so hard, which I really appreciated and
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: was like, Yeah, that's that's it, So let's get into
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: this episode. But again, we've done a lot on Princess Lea.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: We've talked a lot about Star Wars, so very brief
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: discussion of the plot. Essentially, the Evil Empire is terrorizing
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: a galaxy far far away, and a young human female
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  Speaker 2: Princess Leah played by Kerrie Fisher, is one of the
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: political and military leaders of the ragtag group fighting against it,
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  Speaker 2: called the Rebellion or the Alliance. Falls in love with
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: a smuggler, learned she has a twin brother who happens
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: to be your best friend, and they were separated at birth.
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  Speaker 2: Discovers her father's actually Darth Vader, a man who tortured her,
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  Speaker 2: destroyed her homeworld, and is the right hand of the
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: fascist entity she's been fighting her whole life. Oh, and
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: she can use the Force, which is this power that
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: you can connect to her cause is victorious. The Rebellion,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: the Alliance is victorious. She gets the guy, she's reunited
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: with her twin happy ending if you do not go
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: beyond that very end of Return of the Jedi.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Happy ending.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: So the first installment came out in nineteen seventy seven.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: Star Wars later renamed episode four A New Hope which
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: confused me a lot, followed by episode five, The Empire
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: Strikes Back in nineteen eighty in episode six, the Return
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: of the Jedi in nineteen eighty three, and these films
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: had a huge cultural impact. You can tell, sometimes called
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: the American myth If you want to know more about
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: just how enormous of an impact they had, again, check
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: out our Laya episodes, both of them, all of them,
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: any of them. It's not exaggerating to say they changed
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: our cultural landscape and film forever.
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: And Annie, I know you're already going.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: Through all of your lists of how many times Star
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: Wars is referenced, and I now have that in the
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: back of my head all the time too.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, I keep it for that tally every day of
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: how many times I encounter Star Wars reference that I'm
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: not looking for.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: It's usually between fifteen to twenty five.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: I want to say, I just recently watched a movie
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: just May not long ago. There was a reference and
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: I was like, what what I know that reference? I
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: will say, since now I've seen the movie, going back
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: now that.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: I know that reference, are like, oh, there it is.
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: I get it.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: So Leah Organa's impact was obviously massive two, especially for
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: girls and women, and impact that it is still felt
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: and seeing to this day. I see those pictures of
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Carrie Fisher and I'm just like, yes, give me more
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: of that. I look at the signs of pretty much
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: any woman's protests. Again, yes, you see her as the
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: center of rebellion. There are very very few other iconic
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: women characters that have had the lasting impact even close.
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: To her, so yes, for sure, and she's.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Appeared in numerous books, comics, video games, and television shows.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Leah was the only character mentioned by name in the
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: opening crawl, so that yeah, yellow text iconic killow text
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: is going up. She's the only one in episode four,
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: and it's almost immediately established that despite her young age,
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: she is a trouble maker for the evil Empire. She
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: sets the action the original trilogy and motion. She says
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: death in the eyes and does not flinch. In fact,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: has some witty comments. She regularly does not bend to
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: mal expectations, especially those expectations around women in the film.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Vader expects her to give under torture, she doesn't. Tarkan
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: expects her to break when threatening her planet, and she doesn't.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: Luke expects her to be a damsel in distress demure,
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: and she isn't. Hahn expects her to fall for his
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: charm and take his lead. Nope, she doesn't. And as
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: the audience, we didn't expect this young, petite princess to
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: be the leader against the fight against the Empire, especially
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: when these movies came out, and she is she is
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: the leader. She is the one that is getting stuff done.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: Lost after loss, she soldiers on. She is already the
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: hero when we meet her, respected by those around her,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: and Empire strikes back. Right from the start, we see
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: her commanding troops and overseeing the evacuation of the entire
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: rebellion as the Empire the forces that tortured her destroyed
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: at her home planet attack. And when I was a kid,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: that seemed really stuck out to me that there was
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: this kind of small woman who was commanding mostly men
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: and they were just like, Okay, yep, we trust you,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: We're going to do what you say. She is a
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: part of the planning and action throughout these films. She's
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: determined to do everything she can for the cause that
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: she believes in, and all these things while still remaining feminine.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: When these films came out, it was the nineteen seventies,
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: so yeah, women's lib you had Roe v.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Wade, and then the backlash to all of that.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Women weren't allowed to serve in the US Army when
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: this came out, and she is for the most part
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: the only woman in these films, but she speaks her mind,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: refuses to back down. She rises above being the token woman.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: And I will say Carrie Fisher was a huge part
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: of that. You can see our Princess Leigh episodes, but
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: she was really like I know, I think the character
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: would do this, it's like this, let me rewrite stuff
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: for you.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: So she was really key.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Notably, man Mathma, one of the only other women in
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: the original trilogy, is also a leader of the Alliance,
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: but you only see her very briefly. She does pop
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: up in other Star Wars properties, but in this original
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: trilogy you see her for like a minute maybe, so
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: believe it or not, there were a few aspects of
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Lea's character I did not get to touch on in
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: our two parter episode on her.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: Sorry, I had to limit herr y'all.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: She limited me on this one too, I did.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I have even more thoughts, but most of these thoughts
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: I've had reading.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: The entire yeah, the entire current comics series.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: But there are elements that are present in the film
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: that you just get to explore more in the comics,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: and I thought it could be interesting to do some comparisons.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Now that we've talked about Padme Amidala in the prequel
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: trilogy feminist movie Friday, who is Leya's biological mother.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: Right, So, one aspect that they explore in the comics
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: is this idea of ruthlessness or what it takes for
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Leya to lead the rebellion, a rebellion that is and
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: struggling and constantly on the verge of being destroyed.
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: There's a storyline where Leahs chooses to.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: Sacrifice Luke and yes, and he has told me this
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: virginal lot.
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: She has a lot of feelings on this that.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: They don't have the speeder's despair in order to kill
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: Darth Vader. She herself is willing to die if it
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: kills him too. Han is appalled and yes, he's the
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: one with the emotions in this part, right, and goes
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: to save Luke and Leah later decide come back for them.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I do have a lot of thoughts about this,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: she does. There are a couple of things going on here.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Obviously, there are a lot of reasons Leyah would want
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: revenge against Darth Vader, and she is still dealing with
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: a massive trauma. On top of that, she's very young
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: and trying to lead rebellion, this constantly on the brink
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: of extinction, so she has to make these tough calls.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Leah is all about the cause.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: We talked about that how it's like Luca's playing personal
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: checkers and she's playing like galactic chess. She's much more
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: thinking about this bigger picture of how to defeat the empire,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: and lucas more on this personal path of discovery. But
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: also this whole thing is a part of her arc,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: learning to accept those softer parts of herself, allowing herself
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: to be more open and caring to go after what
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: she wants or even admit she has personal needs and
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: that that is okay.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: As I'm watching the Rebels and she's introduced, and Ezra
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: is just a dick the entire time to her, So
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: I guess I'm pushing that button on purpose to make.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: That whole idea.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like Ezra in that case, they're trying
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: very hard to be like he's got a lot to learn.
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: Oh okay, Well, going back to the story arc.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: In that same storyline, Luke crashed the ships into vaders
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: in an attempt to kill him, so well, he's willing
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: to die, and Leah saved him. From imperial capture and
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: bounty hunters on more than one occasion. We know this,
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: and in the comics we see Leiah making alliances with
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: several strong women who are sometimes at best morally ambiguous,
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: like Afra, who we just saw us. She has a
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: nemesis who is a woman, and she connects with a
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: woman struggling with her people, only to be betrayed and
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: the Lion's losing a devastating amount because of it.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a real bummer. She was like, Oh,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I'm connecting to you. I also feel this way when
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: I was a prison at the water around in the
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: trade every time.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Well, and that woman's storyline was complicated as well. Not
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: to flatten it, she had a lot she was dealing with.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: You and Eacht I forgot there's a whole part in
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: the comic. So she's looking up at the night sky
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: and she can still see alder On because the explosion,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: the light the explosion hasn't reached her so much trauma.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: There are a couple of other instances showcasing the darker
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: side of Leah as a leader, things that seem cruel
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: or ruthless to the other characters in the story, which
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: could open up a whole discussion on how we view
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: women leaders, because I think a man doing the same things.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Might not be I don't know. I don't know that
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: they would be seen the same way.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: They might be applauded as a man making a tough call,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: whereas with a woman it might be she's a cruel
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: ice queen.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: And also, to be clear, I have read all these comics,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: some of them twice, but generally most of them once,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: so it's a lot of information to take in Samantha
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: in general. I do appreciate that Leah doesn't shy away
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: from her emotions, including less feminine coded ones like anger,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: but also she doesn't shy away from the feminid coded
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: ones while really mastering that emotionless mask.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: She's really good at that too.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Something else that is explored in the comics are all
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: always Leah shaped at the responsibilities of being a princess,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: and how the press always reduced her to that label,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: no matter what she did, the wardrobe, the hair, the expectations.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: She once said to one of her aunts who was
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: teaching her etiquette quote, being a princess had to be
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: about more than silently doing one's duty, and I'm pretty
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: sure the aunt said something like nope, that's almost all
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: it is. She was a dup as a baby and
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: raised as a princess by bail and Brea Organa to
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: keep her hidden from the Emperor and Darth Vader. From
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: a young age, she rebelled and protested against things she
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: saw as unjust, as well as showed an aptitude for politics.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Like her biological mother. She became a senator as a teenager.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: She received training in self defense and marksmanship and started
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: working with the rebellion at a young age. She is
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: a tomboy in a lot of ways and expressed a
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: fear at being married off.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: That was an interesting thing.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: I thought they explored a fear that caused her to
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: run away more than once. Leia did not fit the
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: mold of a princess, so when we first hear her,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: she looks very much the part of a princess. And
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: also just a note, I know this is confusing, and
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: when Disney bought Star Wars, there's now two. There's like
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: the old canon, which is legends and abandoned, and then
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: new canon, which is official Disney canon. They still use
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: some stuff from the Legends canon in the cannon, but
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: they can get really confusing. But this is mostly Disney canon.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: Okay, then, yeah, and something except for and could be
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: a whole episode on its own about how young women
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: were and are treated in the entertainment industry and the
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: impacts of the treatment when it comes to things like
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: drug abuse and mental health, and how we take that
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: seriously or don't and often outright market and women.
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: And we've seen that.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: And we kind of talked about that about the women
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: of the nineties episodes, but yeah, that should be a
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: whole conversation because we do see that in reference to
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: not only Carrie Fisher, but she was mocked I think
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: more than even Mark Hamill.
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: And as you told me, the things.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: That were happening on the holiday special that made it obvious. Yeah,
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: so some people were altered.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there's just a lot of when she's been
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: she's written about her experience, and there's just a lot
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: of instances where you're like, wow, this is not a
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: good situation for a really young woman to be right.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: So I definitely think that something we could revisit, But
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: for now, we wanted to talk about some women who
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: worked behind the scenes on these movies.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: But first we're going to pause real quick bick for
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsored.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Since we have talked about lay a lot in the past,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: even though I could go on and on and on,
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: clearly we thought we would highlight some important contributions women
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: made to these movies you may not know about, starting
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: with Marshall Lucas. You may have heard people say Star
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Wars was saved in the edit and they're talking about
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: a New Hope episode four. One of those editors was
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Marshall Lucas, George Lucas's ex wife. Marsha was born in
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: California in nineteen forty five. She studied chemistry in college,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: but through her work as a film librarian, she found
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: a love of film editing. After the previous editor left
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: George Lucas's nineteen seventy three film American Graffiti, he was
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: really struggling with the structure of it. Marcia, who he
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: had worked with previously they had gotten married in nineteen
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: sixty nine, stepped in and got to work editing scenes,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: combining them, doing away with some Altogether. The original runtime
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: was three and a half hours long. She got it
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: down to an hour and fifty minutes Dang Yeah. The
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: finished product was critically acclaimed and resonated with audiences. Marsha
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: received an Oscar nomination for her editing on that Martin
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Scorsese took notice, and Marsha worked with him on three
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: films Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, Taxi Driver, and New York,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: New York.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: Right But First. George Lucas did.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: Not hire Marcia to work on Star Wars, but he
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: eventually asked her to replace one of the mel editors,
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: and she also helped with story elements as George was writing.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: She was the one to suggest that oe Wan Kenobi
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: died at the hands of Darth Vader, which is hugely
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: emotional and EmPATH moment for the audience and obviously for Luke,
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: although he does move on pretty quickly. She reassembled the
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: climactic Death Star Trench sequence so that it built tension
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: and provided a satisfying conclusion and one of the most
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: iconic and well loved moments of the film. I definitely
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: knew about that before I watched it, and in the
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: original version which you can still find, Luke took two
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: runs at the trench and it was too long and
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: not very satisfying. She almost completely reordered it. For her
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: work on this film, she won the nineteen seventy eight
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: Best Editing Academy Award along with two other editors, and
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Marshall was sometimes called George Lucas's quote secret weapon.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: In a nineteen seventy seven interview, George said, I was
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: struggling with a problem that I had this sort of
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: climactic scene that had no climax about two thirds of
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: the way through the film. I had another problem in
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: the fact there was no real threat in the Death Star.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: The villains were like tenpence. You get into a gun
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: fight with them and then they just got knocked over.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: As I originally wrote it, Ben Kenobi Invader had a
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: sword fight and Ben hits a door and the door
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: slams closed, and they all run away, and Vaders loved
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: standing there with egg oil on his face.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: This was dumb.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: They run into the desk Star and they sort of
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: take over everything and they run back. It totally diminished
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: any impact that Death Star had. Anyway I was rewriting,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: I was struggling with the pop problem when my wife
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: suggested that I kill off Ben, which she thought was
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: a pretty outrageous idea, and I said, well, that is
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: an interesting idea, and I had been thinking about it.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Her first idea was to have three po get shot,
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: and I said impossible, because I wanted to.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Start and end the film with the robots.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: I wanted the film to really be about the robots
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: and have the theme be framework for the rest of
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: the movie. But then the more I thought about Ben
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: getting killed, the more I liked the idea because one,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: it made the threat of Vader greater, and that tied
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: in with the Force and the fact that he could
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: use the dark side. Both Alec Guinness and I came
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: up with the thing of having been go on afterwards
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: as part of the Force.
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: All about them robots.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: So after that she kind of scaled back for a minute,
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: providing some uncredited editing form of like More American Graffiti
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: and The Empire Strikes Back, and was one of the
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: three official editors on the Return of the Jedi, where
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: she edited the deaths of Yoda and Darth Vader slash
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: Anakin Skywalker, two of the most emotional moments of the film.
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: It really was.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: The story goes that after watching a screening of Raiders
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: of the Lost Art, she told director Steven Spielberg that
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: the ending didn't have any emotional resolution in Shilburg agreed
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: with her and shot an additional scene so that Indiana
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: Jones was reunited with Marion Ravenwood. Apparently in the original ending,
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: she just kind of disappeared, So you know that makes sense.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: In part due to the success of things like Star
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: Wars and Indiana Jones, Marsha and George's relationship deteriorated hmm,
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: and Marcia asked for a divorce in nineteen eighty two.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: That was announced in nineteen eighty three.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: After that, she almost entirely dropped off the radar, in
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: her words, to stop and smell the flowers. That basically
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: she'd work so hard for so long, and she had
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: the money in time, so why.
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: Not do you all thing?
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. She hardly did any interview.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: She's barely credited on any projects after that, and her
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: work on things like Star Wars isn't talked about too often.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: Michael Kaminski's two thousand and eight work The Secret History
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: of Star Wars has a whole chapter on her. He
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: wrote Marcia, along with many of George's friends, critiqued which
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: characters worked, which ones didn't which scenes were good, and
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Lucas composed the script in this way. Marcia was always
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: critical of Star Wars, but she was one of the
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: few people Lucas listened to carefully, knowing she had a
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: skill for carving out strong characters. Often, she was a
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: voice of reason, giving him the bad news he's secretly suspected.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: I'm hard, she said, but I only tell him what
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: he already knows. She kept her husband down to earth
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: and reminded him of the need to have an emotional
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: through line in the film. In nineteen eighty three, Marsha
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: said in an interview, I love editing, and I'm real
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: gifted at it. I have an innate ability to take
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: good material and make it better, or take bad material
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: and make it fair.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: I'm compulsive about it, and.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: I've worked many years as an editor, and let me
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: tell you, you really can do a lot in the editing.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: It can be very, very creative.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: And I think for me that was a misconception I
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: had was that it was kind of cold and clinical.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Uh and just like cut here where there's a mistake.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: But there's so much more to it than that.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: In two thousand and five, Mark Hamill, who plays. Luke
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Skywalker told film Freak Central, you can see a huge
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: difference in the films George Lucas had done since the
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: divorce with Marcia and ten. In that two thousand and
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: five interview, he said she was really the warmth and
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: the heart of those films, a good person. He could
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: talk to, you bounce ideas off of. He would tell
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: him when he was wrong, and that is one of
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: the biggest critiques people have of the Pupils, that they
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: needed an editor, someone to tell George Lucas know it's
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: a bad idea. According to hammil I know for a
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: fact that Marshall Lucas was responsible for convincing him to
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: keep that little Kiss for Luck before Carrie Fisher and
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: I spent Across the Chasm in the first film, Oh
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: I don't like it. People laugh in the previews, and
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: she said, George, they're laughing because it's so sweet and unexpected,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: and her influence was such that if she wanted to
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: keep it in. It was in when the Little Mouse
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: robot comes up when Harrison and I are delivering Chewbacca
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: to the prison and he roars at it and it
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: screams sort of and runs away. George wanted to cut that,
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: and Marcia insisted he keep it.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: Oh like that part, yeah, and Kaminski wrote quote. She
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: warned George, if the audience doesn't cheer when Han Solo
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: comes in at the last second in the Millennium Falcon
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: to help Luke when he's being chased by Darth Vader,
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: the picture doesn't work.
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: It works.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: And in a rare interview, Marsha said, I was the
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: more emotional person who came from the heart, and George
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: was the more intellectual and visual, and I thought that
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: provided a nice balance. But George would never acknowledge that
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: to me. I think he resented my criticisms, felt that
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: all I ever did was put him down, and in
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: his mind, I always stayed the stupid valley girl. He
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: never felt I had any talent. He never felt I
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: was very smart, and he never gave me much credit.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: And when we were finishing Jedi, George told me he
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: thought I was a pretty good editor. In the sixteen
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: years of our being together, I think that was the
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: only time he complimented me.
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, she needed to leave.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: And remember she was editing at a time when there
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: were very few women working in that industry. A gap
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: that exists to this day. Of the top two hundred
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: and fifty domestic grossing films in twenty two percent of
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: the film editors working on them were women. I couldn't
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: find numbers specifically from like nineteen seventy seven, but I
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: would imagine they.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Were lower than that.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Some people argue that Marsh's impact is overstated.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: It's Star Wars. Of course people argue about it.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: But you can't deny she was key and an influential
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: element in these films that made cinematic history. I mean,
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: if she's the one that reordered the Death Star trench,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: that that's idonic, like right, if that.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. There is someone else who you wanted
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: to talk about behind the scenes.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: But first we have one more quick break for word
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: from our sponsor, and we're back.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, now let's talk about Lee Brackett, the Queen of
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: the Space Opera and sometimes referred to as the first
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: science fiction author to succeed in Hollywood. So Brackett was
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: born in California in nineteen fifteen. Her father, who was
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: an aspiring writer, actually died during the nineteen eighteen flu pandemic,
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: and Brackett did become a writer in nineteen thirty nine,
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: and she joined the Los Angeles Science Fiction Society. In
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: nineteen forty she published Martian Quest, her first story. Over
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: the next few years, she published several stories in science
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: fiction magazines, and she wrote to Tech the Stories too,
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: and her first novel, nineteen forty four's No Good from
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: a Corpse. No Good from a Corpse was also well received,
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: and Brackett was asked to work alongside William Faulkner and
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: Jules Firthman on the screenplay of the nineteen forty six
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: film The Big Sleep. Apparently, Howard Hawks, who directed it,
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: told his assistant to call this guy Brackett and later
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: praised she writes good, she writes like a man. Aw thanks,
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: and she and her friend Ray Bradberry published the novella
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: Lorelei of the Red Mess in nineteen forty six.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: By this point she started publishing novel link science fiction
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: and magazines over ten In the next decade or so,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: she was still writing mysteries and added westerns into the mix.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: She got screenwriting credit on several projects, like nineteen fifty
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: nine's Rio Bravo At nineteen seventy three's The Long Goodbye.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Some of her own works were adapted for television. Of note,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: a lot of her sci fi space opera work was
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: ridiculed for being lighter takes on sci fi with these
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: elements of romance, often called pulpy, and in fact that
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: nickname the Queen of Space Opera was largely seen as
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: a bad thing. Reminder, Star Wars is labeled as a
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: space opera, So this is another example of when a
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: woman does something, it's frivolous and worthless. When a man
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: does it, it's genius, groundbreaking and award worthy every.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Time, every time.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: But okay, we're talking about Star Wars. After the success
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: of a New Hope and wanting to avoid all the
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: stress working on it caused him, George Lucas wanted to
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: ask someone else to write the script for the sequel.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Plus he was super busy with industrial like magic building lucasfilm,
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: and he was paying for it out of pocket, so
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: why not. I've never been able to confirm this completely,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: but I think a holiday special might have something to
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: do with that. It was like, never again, well a
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: company will I beeve a hold into a studio. I'm
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: paying for this myself, So technically the Empire Strikes Back
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: is an independent film.
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: Oh interesting.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he had some ideas, but no real plot in mind.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: He tapped the Bracket to write it. Lucas and Brackett
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: met several times to nail down a very basic plot.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: A lot of it made it into the film. Bracket
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: turned in the first early draft for The Empire Strikes Back.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: While there were elements that Lucas liked, there were several
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: that he wanted to rework. Unfortunately, Brackett died of breast
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: cancer in nineteen seventy eight, just a few weeks after
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: she turned in this early draft, and Lucas tried his
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: hand at a few drafts that were refined by Lawrence Costen.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Her draft and the potential of what it would have
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: become it had the potential to become, is sometimes referred
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: to as the Lost version of The Empire Strikes Back
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: or the version You Never saw. You can find whole
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: draft online, though complete with handwritten notes. A fan site
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: called Star Wars with z dot com acquired the so
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: called Holy Grail in twenty ten and scanned.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: And uploaded it.
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: I know you've read it. What do you think.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: It's weird? It's it's much more.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: It's got much more fantasy, and it's much more on
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: like fantasy side, and it's got a lot more romance.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: But it's beautiful and it's beautifully written. Some of the
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: dialogue is pretty counky. But again this is a first draft,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: so I think you were probably very like here at
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: the out yeah, it's recognizable, Like there are some scenes
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: You're like, yeah, this is the Empire Strexpert, this is
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: what it ended up in the movie.
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: Nice.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: So while a lot of her story got reworked or dropped,
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: as you can tell, some key elements remained in the film.
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: The Battle of Hath that's in it, which was a
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: risky decision at the time to put your big budget
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: fight scene right at the top, as opposed to the
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: end Luke's and R two separation from han Lea Chewy
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: and three po You've got Frog like Yoda the backpack,
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: but by the time he was named Buffy.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: I'm really glad to change that.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: In fact, the whole sequence of Luke training on Dago
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: but remains pretty unchanged. Lando's in it, the asteroid filled chase,
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: the love triangle, much much more focused on that in
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: the first draft, the introduction of the Emperor a city
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: in the clouds. The name Vestment is in the script,
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: as is Hawth, though for different planets. C three po
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: gets blasted apart, Han, Chew, and Lea are used as
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: bait to lure Luke, and the climactic confrontation between Luke
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: Skywalker and Darth Vader, where Vader tries to turn Luke to.
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: The dark side.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: All those big story beats are there, minus the I
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: Am your Father thing and loss of hand, though he
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: does still fall through cloud City to get away from
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: Vader and is rescued by the Millennium Falcon. However, even
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: in this early draft, the connection between Luke and Vader
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: was integral to the plot. Vader a menace hunting Luke throughout.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: The ending is kind of similar too, with Luke and
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: Laya watching on as Han and Chewy fly off induce base.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Yes, that was a long list. Those plot points were
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: all there. Yeah, even so, George Laka sayesn't really acknowledge it,
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: or he kind of.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: Does, but not in a good way.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: I feel like maybe he's it's complicated with like union stuff.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Okay, he once said, I didn't like
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: the first script, but I gave Lee credit because I
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: like her a lot. She was sick at the time
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: she wrote the script, and she really tried her best.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: During the story conferences I had with Lee, my thoughts
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: weren't fully formed and felt that her script went in
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: a completely different direction, which she is in the credits,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: and he made sure that she was credited alongside Lawrence
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Casten for writing and to do that because I don't
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: know the ins and out of this, but basically the
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: rules of the Writers Get of America to make sure
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: that they gave her a screenwriting credit. He intentionally didn't
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: submit drafts of his own of the script, and I do.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've read it and it is it's weird.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: It's one of those things where it almost feels like
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: a fan fiction of because those beats are there, but
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: it is much more fantastical. So I don't know, like,
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: I feel like I get what he's saying in terms
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: of it went in a completely different direction.
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: But at the same time, I'm like, God, she gave
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: him a good bass.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of us.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: There, But Okay, that's not to say that some things
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: didn't change from that early draft. Her version did content
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: a lot more elements of fantasy from the final script,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: like the big ice creatures in the beginning they were
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: like ghost they could like disappear, and in some of
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: the deleted scenes of The Empire Strikes Back you can
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: really see some leftover elements from her original idea, which
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: I do maintain every scene they deleted from The Empire
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: Strikes Back, thank god they did, but there's an attack
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: of the wampas the ice creatures.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: The love triangles more emphasized.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: In her version, Leya was much more damsely really a
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: love interest, not much else, so it's good that that changed,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: though some people pointed out that this minimizing of way
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: I'm manifested in the gold Bikini scenes in Return of
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: the Jedi. See our Princess Leah episodes for more on that.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: I don't really think you can blame Bracket alone for
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: that though.
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: Right absolutely not so.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: The Empire is barely in it too, which is funny
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: given the title of the movie, But at the time
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: it was just Star Wars too, so so that is,
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: Vader's character wasn't really fleshed out yet, having discernible motivation
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: other than revenge for the Death Star, but he was
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: much more active in attacking Luke with the Force no
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: matter where the galaxy he was, so there's that.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he could like make him pass out by just
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: thinking it was weird. Luke manages to pull his ship
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: out in Degaba, so that whole like do you or
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: do not?
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: There is no try he.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Does where's in the movie he does not. He learns
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: the ability to summon force ghosts, so that's different, and
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: he summons his father.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Who is not Darth Vader.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Not only that, but his father's ghost reveals to him
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: that he does have a twin sister, but it is
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: not Leah. It is someone named Nellith who you never
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: hear about again. Most likely that was gonna be resolved
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: in the third movie, but the twin thing did end
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: up getting used, just not in this one. His father,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: along with Ben Knight Luke is a Jedi and tell
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: him to face Vader, so he becomes a Jedi Knight
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: in this one. And yeah, when you think about it,
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: the Force ghost element is a pretty fantastical thing that
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: ultimately survived to the final films.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: I know Lucas said that he and Alt Gunnis flushed.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Out, but I've never really thought about that as being
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: kind of like, yeah, it's like a fantasy. And it
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: seems like she kind of introduced khyber crystals too, which
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: are the crystals that power lightsabers and did go on
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: to become pretty important in other media and the Star
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Wars universe. And she also introduced Vader's castle, which, for
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: those of you who don't know, I mean Vader, he's
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: got a castle.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that he does on the.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Planet where Mustafar, the lava planet where he lost his
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: arms and legs.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: He's got a.
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: Nice castle, lovely. Mm hmmm, I'm sure it's Volcano side Home.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Volcano side Home.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: There are no bounty hunters in her version, so there's
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: no Boba Fett, there's no Han getting frozen. Hana is
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: much more a rebel soldier and much less a smuggler
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: kind of sticking around, right.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: And then Lando's character is still charming and charismatic, but
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: he's much more lonely, a clone left over from the
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: Clone Wars, which I feel like it was like the.
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: Rebel slash Clone Wars.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the cartoon, he says to Han quote it didn't
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: seem strange to us, but to see our own faces
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: endlessly repeated in the streets of our city. It gave
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: us a sense of oneness, of belonging. Now, when every
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: face is new and different, I feel truly alone. He
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: also still portrays Han. Brackett described Lando as quote handsome
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: like Rudolph Valentino, who was an actor and a sex
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: symbol of his time.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: After her death, Bracket received several awards recognizing her impact
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: on science fiction genre, including a nineteen eighty one Hugo
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Award for Best Dramatic Presentation for The Empire Strikes Back,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: and she was inducted into the Science Fiction Hall of
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: Fame in twenty fourteen. And fun fact, the character Sheriff
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Bracket from the nineteen seventy eight film Halloween was.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Named after her. Interesting.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and she was also doing a set of time
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: when there weren't that many women working as screenwriter. It's
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: not to mention in the genre of science fiction, which
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: was much more seen as male dominated genre. Of the
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: top two hundred fifty domestic grossing films in twenty twenty,
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: only seventeen percent of writers were women. And again I
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: couldn't find numbers from when she was doing this, but
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: I imagine even.
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: Lower, even lower.
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: So the Infra strikes back as one of the most
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: celebrated movies of all time.
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: Is this your favorite movie any h Right?
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: So I thought all time, all time, and it changed
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: not only the cinematic landscape, but people's ideas around sequels
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: and what they could accomplish. I do hear this one
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: and The Godfather too as the better of the trilogies.
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: Just put that out there. So much of it's iconic,
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: and we owe a lot of that to Bracket obviously,
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: and she only had one crack at the draft.
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: It's interesting to wonder what would have happened.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: And I know that you when we first watched it,
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: you made sure to go to the credits to see
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: how if our name was there.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: God, I was so excited that first time you were.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: You were so excited.
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: I love sharing things that I love, that's true.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I hope that you listeners maybe have
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: learned something new or that you have enjoyed the celebratory
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: episode for Revenge of the Fifth.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: And I always love talking about this. Clearly, Yes, it's
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: been a delight, and I love it too.
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: It has been a delight.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, So happy may the fourth and move into
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: the fifth and remember Without these amazing women, both real
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: and fictional, we would not have had this piece of
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: historic and beloved entertainment. So their impacts on generations of us,
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: and particularly women and girls, truly cannot be overstated.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: It's true.
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: Yes, it's gonna be might.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: I just had to do it. You had to do it.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: I had too, So listeners, if you have any thoughts
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: about it, this, or any suggestions, we do take them.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: We have a list and we're always happy to receive them.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: You can email us atuff Media, Momstuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: You can find us on Instagram at stuff I've Never
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: Told You or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: as always to our super producer, Christina dani You, and
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never Told You,
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: the production of iHeartRadio. For more podcast on iHeartRadio, visits
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or where you listen to your
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: favorite shows.