Latest / MUBI Podcast / KNEECAP — Rich Peppiatt on politics and partying

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KNEECAP — Rich Peppiatt on politics and partying · MUBI Podcast

• 0:00
  Heads up, this episode includes the whole shebang.
• 0:02
  Adult language, explicit sexual content, references to drugs and political violence and worst of all, spoilers.
• 0:13
  Let me ask you, as a Brit, what made you want to make this movie that's so specifically Irish and is about such deeply Irish politics?
• 0:24
  You know, I think that Britain in general is very good at putting rose tinted spectacles on its own history.
• 0:30
  And so you go to school and you do a chapter on Irish history, and you learn about these terrorists and that the British government sorted them out and, you know, blah, blah, blah.
• 0:41
  And you're just as a kid, just read it and move on to the Tudors and the Saxons the next term and whatever.
• 0:47
  And it was only when I started coming here 15 years ago that you had that moment where you go, oh, we're the bad guys, aren't we?
• 0:56
  And hearing the stories of people who suffered so badly at the hands of the British government and this stretching back 800 years.
• 1:04
  You know, it was just something that I became very interested in, and partly that was a sense of sort of guilt, I guess?
• 1:09
  But also as a filmmaker, I think sometimes being a slight outsider to a situation can be really helpful.
• 1:16
  And Kneecap was a story that was sitting under everyone's noses, really.
• 1:23
  That is writer director Rich Peppiatt, and his debut movie, Kneecap, takes that under the radar story and jams it right in your face.
• 1:32
  It's a semi-fictional biopic about the real life rap group Kneecap, who become cult heroes in their native Northern Ireland for rapping about sex, drugs and politics in the Irish language.
• 1:43
  At a moment when that's a kind of politically charged thing to do.
• 1:47
  Why don't you just speak the Queen's English, you Fenian cunt?This was a fair question, though rudely asked. See, there's a movement afoot to make Irish an official language of the region, something Northern Ireland's pro-British Loyalists aren't into, but which the band and their legions of fans are willing to fight and protest for even after partying all night long.
• 2:13
  I'm Rico Gagliano and welcome back to the MUBI Podcast.
• 2:16
  MUBI is the streaming service that champions great cinema.
• 2:19
  On this show we tell you the stories behind great cinema.
• 2:22
  We're in the middle of our season travelling to film cultures around the world, which we kicked off a few weeks back with a deep dive into Ireland that featured portions of my interview with Rich Peppiatt.
• 2:31
  Today, in this special bonus episode, we are bringing you the whole thing.
• 2:35
  Last year, Kneecap was the first Irish language movie to debut at Sundance, where it also won the Audience Award and went on to win a slew of British indie film awards.
• 2:44
  And Rich won a BAFTA for Best Directing debut.
• 2:47
  You may have seen the band Kneecap in news headlines lately, because in May, the London police brought up band member Liam Óg on terrorism charges for allegedly holding up a Hezbollah flag during a show.
• 2:58
  Then the pro-Palestine anti-Keir Starmer shout outs during a set at the Glastonbury festival got them investigated by local police.
• 3:05
  Those charges were dropped.
• 3:07
  I should say this conversation happened way before all that went down, so you won't hear us get into it.
• 3:11
  But just like in the movie, you will get a picture of a band that has been both celebrated and controversial since day one.
• 3:18
  We also got Richie's thoughts on the Irish language about making movies in Ireland and the state of indie film in a world gone crazy.
• 3:26
  One more thing, you may also hear some distant giggling in the background.
• 3:29
  That's our producer Ciara McEniff, who couldn't help herself, and I don't blame her.
• 3:34
  We met up with Rich at his home in Belfast in Northern Ireland, where he just became an Irish citizen.
• 3:39
  He says it's the same neighbourhood where he first stumbled on his movie's subjects.
• 3:46
  So I moved to Belfast about seven years ago now and, I think within two weeks of moving into this very house that we are sitting in now.
• 3:55
  I went to a gig that was happening, you know, half a mile down the road from here at a bar called Limelight, where a local hip hop act called Kneecap were playing.
• 4:05
  And I'm a big fan of hip hop.
• 4:06
  And I thought, well, you know, local hip hop act.
• 4:08
  Let's do that. And I was just blown away.
• 4:10
  I walked in there and their stage presence, their energy, and more than that, you know, there was 500 or so young people in the crowd who were rapping back to them in Irish, every word of their songs.
• 4:24
  And to me, that was as a as a man who'd just come over from London, was quite the revelation that there was this young, vibrant Irish language community in a metropolitan hub like Belfast.
• 4:36
  And it stood in sharp contrast, this sort of grassroots movement to what was happening at a political level, where there'd been sort of back and forth over official recognition for the Irish language for many years, and nothing had ever happened.
• 4:50
  It was stuck in the mud.
• 4:52
  But here was these three guys really at the forefront of it all, but in a really intriguing way, because they were throwing bags of white powder into the crowd and, you know, kind of getting their arse out with "Brits Out" written across it and generally, you know, just being absolute madmen.
• 5:07
  And to me, there was also, I think music felt like for a long time it had become very PRd and packaged up and Kneecap harked back to my favourite band growing up, Rage Against the Machine, who were out there who just, you know, politics first, who, they had a message and didn't care the consequences of spreading that message and Kneecap very much gave that impression.
• 5:29
  And, you know, the pleasure I've had to get to know them as well as I have over seven years.
• 5:33
  So, that's not a stage act.
• 5:35
  You know, the boys really do live by their principles.
• 5:38
  They die by them.
• 5:38
  And it's something that's very inspiring.
• 5:41
  I think we live in a world where we're always taught that, you know, you need to obey certain rules and live a certain way to move up the greasy pole of life.
• 5:50
  And then people like Kneecap come along and they live life by completely their own rules.
• 5:54
  But somehow, by sitting in a pub all day drinking and doing cocaine, they're somehow, you know, everything works out for them.
• 6:01
  And there's an inspiring story in there somewhere.
• 6:06
  Yeah, you know, I guess we could all emulate that.
• 6:08
  I don't know that it would always work out so well for us.
• 6:10
  Well, this is the problem because if you if, you know, it'll work out for them.
• 6:14
  But I can tell you, if I sat in a bar drinking and doing coke all day, I think within three weeks, all life would have collapsed around me and maybe the whole of Western civilisation would have collapsed as well.
• 6:25
  Yeah, my understanding is that it wasn't always easy to corral these guys.
• 6:29
  Well, it's always trying to strike a balance because it was very important to us to have the authenticity of the boys.
• 6:35
  I never wanted to knock that out of them and just turn them into, you know, kind of film stars.
• 6:40
  It was like really the essence of the film was them, and it was trying to strike that balance between, you know, how we can make a film in a timely, on budget, manner with three lads who want to be on the 'caine all day.
• 6:53
  And, you know, there was, for example, when we first set out on the film, it was like, right, there's all these fake drugs that the art department's made.
• 7:00
  And they were like, "No, no, we'll just do real drugs." And we were like,"No, you can't do real drugs." And they were like "Why?
• 7:06
  We'll just do the real drugs.
• 7:06
  That'll be better." And I said,"Yeah, the problem is though, lads,"everything is filmed out of order.
• 7:11
  "So it's okay, we're doing a big drug scene here"and you can do a lot of ketamine, but then right afterwards,"you've got a really emotional scene with your mother,"and that's not really going to work"if you've just done a big line of ketamine, is it?
• 7:22
  "So, you know, we're going to need to keep that in the bag and preferably pick it up in six weeks time when we're finished." Also, there's this thing called insurance that we have to complete the movie that may not quite work out if they catch wind that our stars are doing dope on the set.
• 7:38
  There may have been some issues.
• 7:39
  Yeah, we tried to keep that discussion out of earshot of the producers.
• 7:43
  Well, speaking of legal action, it was financed partially by the British government through film funding, and my understanding is that that was not easy.
• 7:51
  You had to sue them or something-- tell me about how this came about.
• 7:54
  Well, no, to be fair, the British Film Institute were one of the main investors of the film and, you know, much love to them for that because, you know, it's not naturally a film that you look at and, you know, given it's "fuck the Brits" attitude and think, oh, the British Film Institute, they'd be great people to tap up for some money.
• 8:11
  But, you know, they to their credit, they saw the artistic merit of the film beyond, you know, necessarily if it aligned with the politics of, you know, whatever.
• 8:22
  But in terms of suing the government, that was really to do with the Music Fund, that wasn't anything to do with the film.
• 8:27
  That was to do with the music export funding thing of £15,000, which was to help them tour.
• 8:34
  But the government at the time, the Conservative government, the Home Office minister, Kemi Badenoch, came out and basically withdrew that money from them and said these people don't believe in the United Kingdom, therefore we, we shouldn't be giving them our money.
• 8:49
  And the minute she said it, anyone with half a brain knows anything about Irish politics just went "Idiot!" Because under the Good Friday Agreement, you absolutely have a right to express the view that you do not believe that the North of Ireland should be part of the United Kingdom. Right?
• 9:06
  There's absolutely your right to express that belief and to be discriminated against for expressing that belief is illegal.
• 9:13
  And it was the most open and shut case.
• 9:15
  I mean, within an hour of her saying that I was with the lads and their phone just started ringing with lawyers.
• 9:20
  It was like the biggest ambulance chase gig ever, because it was just such a slam dunk of a case.
• 9:26
  I could have done the case, and unfortunately that just proves the level of people who go into politics these days, not only in the UK but across the world, maybe, perhaps most of all in America at the moment.
• 9:38
  But again, it makes me wonder if you, as a Brit, did it give you or anyone pause to be the one telling the story.
• 9:46
  I think if you're from here, you can't help but be seen, and there's probably a bit of truth in it, as well as having some sort of slant.
• 9:54
  You're either from one side or the other, and it's very difficult-- no one's really neutral, right?
• 10:00
  And I think maybe in a way it would have been hard for an Irish man or woman to have made the film because it would have been seen as there's an axe to grind.
• 10:07
  There's an agenda. And I was sort of seen more as a neutral party.
• 10:11
  It is interesting knowing that also that you wrote this film, that the way you kind of throw some sense of both sides, point of view into it without being kind of mealy mouthed about either.
• 10:24
  And I'm thinking mainly of the relationship between one of the guys, Liam, and his girlfriend Georgia, who is a Loyalist.
• 10:32
  Well, I mean, look, there's a lot of sacred cows here, and Kneecap have always been very good, one of the things I love about them is they've always kind of like, rode roughshod over those sacred cows and made jokes about them.
• 10:42
  And I think that was certainly a spirit that I that wanted to take into the film, and I think part of it is because they're not sacred cows to me.
• 10:50
  Some of the things that we say in the film are things that no one's ever said here.
• 10:54
  Like for instance?
• 10:55
  Well, I mean, "I want to blow you like a Brighton hotel would probably be one." I did, I was very proud that I knew what that was about.
• 11:04
  That was a resigning matter.
• 11:05
  There was not a single funder on this film that wanted that line in there.
• 11:09
  For those who haven't seen it, this is a moment where Liam and Georgia are having sex and she weirdly thinks it's hot, that that in the middle of it, he's shouting anti-British slogans in Irish.
• 11:26
  Say it again! Until finally she's so turned on that she says: I want to blow you like a Brighton hotel.
• 11:36
  Which is my understanding, is a reference to back in the 80s, some Northern Irish Republicans tried to kill the UK Prime Minister by actually blowing up a Brighton hotel.
• 11:46
  I came under immense pressure to take that line out and I point blank, I said, "Look,"you know, we're walking.
• 11:52
  "Like me, the band, we will, you know, not promote this film if you make us do that." And that was some collective bargaining we had there.
• 12:01
  We had a little mini union.
• 12:03
  And to be fair, you know, I don't think the expected backlash where everyone was like "You're going to get absolutely slaughtered for that line" ever really occurred because I think, you know, it's not-- there's nothing in that film that I think is offensive for offensive's sake.
• 12:16
  And I think if you want to take that line specifically, it's all about the scene is about a relationship between two people who have a kink at saying the most offensive things they can to each other.
• 12:26
  And you can't, you have to escalate that, dramatically.
• 12:30
  And the last thing they say has to be really bloody offensive and...
• 12:36
  "Heighten and explore" I believe, is the term in comedy.
• 12:38
  Right. Exactly. And then Liam Óg's reaction to that is to go"Bloody hell, that's a bit far." Do you know what I mean?
• 12:44
  His facial expression is like,"That's a bit much even for me." So I'm like, it works perfectly.
• 12:48
  You're not understanding the comedic beats of the scene if you think-- and the idea that you could just remove it and the scene would work would be, you're just fucking up my favourite scene.
• 12:57
  Well, it's not actually my favourite scene.
• 12:59
  It's nearly my favourite-- my favourite scene is the phone box scene.
• 13:03
  Again, to set this up for people, Naoise makes a phone call to his father, who's played by Michael Fassbender, and he has a very strained relationship with this guy because he's in hiding from the law, his dad.
• 13:15
  And his father's in one phone box and Naoise's in another, and you pan back and forth between the two of them.
• 13:23
  Neither of them are saying anything.
• 13:23
  Then his dad hangs up.
• 13:30
  And when it pans back to Naoise, he's a child.
• 13:34
  Yeah, why is that your favourite scene?
• 13:36
  Just because I think it dramatically, not to blow smoke up my own arse, but it's like nothing's said in that scene.
• 13:44
  But everything's said, you know what I mean?
• 13:46
  Film is a visual language, and I think without anyone saying anything, everything you need to know about where their relationship is and you know, it wasn't actually in the original script that he would become a boy.
• 13:59
  It was an idea that came a bit later to me was the last time you pan back in that it was all just one single shot, you know, we swap out and it's him as a child there that his dad has made him feel just like he's a boy again.
• 14:12
  And I don't know, for whatever reason, I was just very impressed with myself.
• 14:18
  If it makes you feel better, I was impressed by that scene myself.
• 14:21
  Enough so that when you say phone box scene, I know just what you're talking about.
• 14:24
  Oh, cool. Well that's good. It's also Michael Fassbender's favourite scene, so, you know, we love that scene.
• 14:29
  But you were saying so it took like an outsider sort of to make this film.
• 14:33
  That's maybe one of the reasons it was attractive to you.
• 14:36
  Well, I wouldn't say it was one of the reasons it was attractive.
• 14:38
  It was more one of the reasons that it got made.
• 14:41
  One of the reasons I managed to piece those things together to to tell what is the story that, you know, it's a sex, drugs and hip hop biopic, but...
• 14:49
  there's a lot more to it than that, right?
• 14:51
  And I think it really represents the reality of young Irish culture, particularly in West Belfast, in a really authentic way.
• 15:01
  And that was always from the outset, something that was so important to us was if we make this film, if we're unable to walk down the Falls Road and have people go, "well done"...
• 15:12
  then we've fucked the whole thing up, right?
• 15:15
  And it was really important to us that we didn't ever feel like we were exploiting their stories, or we were making the butt of the joke, because that was one thing that me and the lads connected with very early on were all working class kids from very different places.
• 15:29
  I think there's a tendency in the media that when you're involved in street culture and you're from that sort of background, that you become the butt of the joke.
• 15:37
  You're an inept criminal. You're stupid.
• 15:40
  And why can't you have people who are involved in street culture and drugs and things like that, but who actually are politically erudite, who have beliefs, who have a perspective, and we really wanted to represent that on screen.
• 15:53
  And I think kneecap does that, that, you know, there is all the fun there.
• 15:56
  But also, yeah, they're smart.
• 15:58
  How would you describe the film culture right now in Belfast?
• 16:03
  Because this movie seems to have brought a renewed interest in it as a place and in it as a culture, 'cause I know, for instance, for a while this part of the UK was best known for being the main location for Game of Thrones.
• 16:15
  Game of Thrones this ain't but what's happening on the ground here?
• 16:19
  I for me, coming from London, where I've made most of my work and most of my connections in the film industry would be, it was quite daunting coming here because I was unable to bring my crew, if you want, just 'cause of the way the funding was set up and things like that.
• 16:34
  And so that was quite scary.
• 16:35
  - You had to use Irish filmmakers?
• 16:35
  - Exactly.
• 16:38
  And so for me, I was a bit worried about that because the first time I'm making a narrative feature, you kind of want to be surrounded by people you've worked with before.
• 16:46
  But in fact, I found the crews here to be out of this world.
• 16:50
  I think that there's a degree of cynicism, maybe in places like London, probably the same way there's in LA or New York, where crews have been there, they've done it, and it's a bit eye-rolly and a bit sort of like, you know, while here, I think it's a younger, more vibrant film scene where everyone really wants to prove themselves, wants to do their best work.
• 17:09
  You know, everyone's prepared to muck in.
• 17:11
  You know, it's not seen quite as-- it's a bit more egalitarian in an approach.
• 17:16
  How so?
• 17:17
  Well, I mean, you know, film sets can be very hierarchical, and it's something that I personally have never really liked.
• 17:24
  I think that, you know, good ideas and input can come from, you know, the lowliest person on the film set.
• 17:30
  I mean, I think it's important to bring everyone with you when you're making a film, which is one reason why, you know, when we made Kneecap you know, there was over a thousand storyboards for the film.
• 17:39
  And every day it was important to me that what we were shooting that day, those storyboards were distributed to every member of the crew, right down to the catering staff.
• 17:47
  I wanted everyone to know what is our objective today that we're going to, you know, I think that that sense of I'm the director, I'm making the film, and you guys are all here to serve me is an unnecessary way to do things.
• 17:59
  And I've been on film sets where I just find that hierarchy is counterproductive.
• 18:04
  And anyway, so I found the film crews to here to be to be absolutely, you know, sensational.
• 18:09
  And part of that is a lot of them had experience working on things like Game of Thrones, those big budget programs.
• 18:15
  But there is this sense that there's been a kind of a service industry thing where productions come in to the North of Ireland, but they're not really indigenous stories. Right?
• 18:26
  And I think that Kneecap is part of really a new wave of programming that is trying to tell stories from here, make them here and try and build an industry around that, because I think you look at also things like Say Nothing, which has been a huge success.
• 18:42
  There's so many stories that have global appeal that are here.
• 18:46
  This is probably very reductionist, no matter how you answer it.
• 18:50
  But it's like, is there a type of story that is best told here?
• 18:54
  rather than any place else?
• 18:55
  And I'm asking you this because Kneecap is such a specific kind of movie.
• 18:59
  It's like, it's so, it feels right for this place.
• 19:02
  It's like it's both gritty, but it's also vibrant.
• 19:05
  It's alive, it's young, but it's also politically minded.
• 19:08
  It's like, is that the kind of story that is best told here?
• 19:12
  Yeah, I think so. I think that there's a dark humour in this place.
• 19:16
  There's a spirit and something very there's a je ne sais quoi about the people and the place of Belfast in particular.
• 19:23
  That's very hard to put your finger on, but I think Kneecap does encapsulate that.
• 19:27
  But would I want to say there's a particular type of story?
• 19:30
  No, I don't think so.
• 19:30
  You know, An Cailín Ciúin was a filmThe Quiet Girl was a film that was a great inspiration to us trying to make an Irish language film.
• 19:40
  You know, people talk about Kneecap like it was the first big Irish language film.
• 19:43
  But no, we were standing on the shoulders of An Cailín Ciúin.
• 19:46
  And it was funny because when we were first developing the film, there's a scheme here called Cine4, which is the Irish language channel TG4 it's their cinema scheme.
• 19:54
  They fund the film up to $1 million.
• 19:58
  And we applied for that and we thought we were going to get it, arrogantly.
• 20:02
  We were like, there's no way we're not going to get this'cause, you know, Kneecap are basically the biggest Irish language thing since, I don't know, ever really.
• 20:07
  And so it was like, right...
• 20:10
  and then we got knocked back and there was a film called inAn Cailín Ciúin got it instead.
• 20:14
  And we were like, "The Quiet Girl? Who the fuck wants to watch"a film about a quiet girl when you've got three loud rappers?
• 20:21
  This is bullshit. This is absolute..." And then we actually saw the film and we were like, "Yeah, it's all right, actually." So, and I know now the director and I like to tell him that story that I spent a little while hating him, hating this, this bloody quiet girl.
• 20:39
  But, no, it's a fantastic film.
• 20:41
  And, you know, we were very sorry that we couldn't follow in its footsteps and quite make it to the Oscar red carpet.
• 20:47
  Man. I'm sorry.
• 20:47
  That would have been, I would have tuned in just for that.
• 20:51
  But along these lines, what is it about Irish language cinema?
• 20:56
  'Cause it really seems to be the thing that is happening when I talk to people.
• 21:01
  Irish language cinema is what's drawing audiences and it's drawing interest.
• 21:05
  Why? Why all of a sudden?
• 21:08
  Well, I mean, that's a hard question. Why?
• 21:11
  Why Irish language cinema?
• 21:12
  I think that Irish is an oral language rather than a written language.
• 21:17
  And so it's always been passed down from generation to generation.
• 21:20
  It predates English by 2000 odd years, but it's passed down through music and through stories and through poetry and so innately to what that language is, is this sense of storytelling and lyricism.
• 21:34
  And it sounds beautiful.
• 21:35
  And the band always say to me, you know, the wonderful thing about being Irish language rappers who can flick between the two languages is there's so many more rhymes within it.
• 21:45
  Whenever you get caught in a corner with one language, you just flip to the other one.
• 21:49
  And Irish is just a very poetic language as it is.
• 21:51
  There's just a lot more rhyme scheme there.
• 21:54
  And, but yeah, look, I think that now-- there's always been this scepticism.
• 21:58
  Will Irish language content travel?
• 22:00
  Really? Do people want to read subtitles?
• 22:02
  And I think that there's a global change in that you know, the streamers have caused many problems for the industry.
• 22:09
  But one of the things they've really opened up is the idea that the audiences will watch things with subtitles.
• 22:14
  - Squid Game.- Yeah. You know.
• 22:15
  And so that has sort of allowed a bit more confidence.
• 22:19
  And then things like An Cailín Ciúin, like Kneecap where the language hasn't been so much a barrier.
• 22:25
  It is always going to be somewhat of a barrier. Do you know what I mean?
• 22:28
  There's always going to be a little bit of a struggle, particularly at a theatrical level, with stuff that has subtitles.
• 22:34
  But no, I think that with that renewed confidence, people want to tell Irish language-- and because it's about authenticity, if a story feels like it should be told in the Irish language, tell it in the Irish language.
• 22:45
  I mean, it's interesting talking about The Quiet Girl, though.
• 22:48
  My understanding it's based on a story that was written in English, not in Irish.
• 22:54
  That was a filmmaker's idea to make it in Irish.
• 22:57
  I didn't know that. I didn't know that.
• 22:59
  Well, there you go.
• 22:59
  That undermines my argument somewhat.
• 23:03
  I mean...
• 23:04
  I also haven't read the book, so maybe they've altered it so significantly that it makes a lot more sense in Irish.
• 23:09
  Is that right? Oh, fair play.
• 23:10
  Well, that was a brave choice, and it certainly paid off for him.
• 23:13
  I mean, the mercenary take on it is that that's where funding lies, like you can get-- I'm sure that played a part, and I don't like the fact that Kneecap may never have got made was it not primarily in the Irish language.
• 23:28
  You know, it opened up funding sources that wouldn't have been accessible.
• 23:32
  And, you know, piecing together an independent film these days is difficult.
• 23:36
  And to walk in the door to a commercial studio and go, look, we've got these three guys have never acted, they've never made an album, they've got no music label.
• 23:45
  They hate Britain.
• 23:46
  They, you know, they're fans of saying really controversial things on press tours.
• 23:51
  You know, let's make a movie with them.
• 23:51
  They'd've escorted you out with security.
• 23:55
  And, you know, one thing that we're very lucky to have in Europe is soft money for film.
• 24:01
  Right? And these pots of money, it's unfortunate that in America, with such a rich film culture that, you know, everything has to go through the lens of commercial viability.
• 24:11
  And because that's often wrong, it's likeKneecap is a film that has made it's made its money back, it's made its own bed.
• 24:17
  And that's something I'm very proud of, because sometimes I think indie film, as much as I love indie film and I love arthouse film as a filmmaker, too much of it, for my opinion, just doesn't attract a large enough audience.
• 24:30
  My friends down the pub don't watch those movies, right?
• 24:34
  And I think that's problematic.
• 24:36
  I think that films that are kind of always going to be loss making, that are there just for their cultural significance I think that's difficult to sustain.
• 24:44
  And I think it allows people who want to try and remove funding from film and want to just make it all, you know, this Darwinism, right?
• 24:53
  I think that emboldens them when they see films that just lose money and they go, this is just arthouse shite.
• 24:58
  And I think we have a problem where there's feeding chump to the sharks at one end of the market with your sort of Marvel, or whatever.
• 25:06
  And then, you know, the other end is, like I said, the stuff that really is for a very limited audience.
• 25:10
  And I think Kneecap exists in a space in the middle that a lot more films used to exist in, in the 90s, the 80s, which are trying to say something smart, but doing it in an entertaining and accessible manner, and which allow audiences to really view things on whatever level they're in the mood for.
• 25:26
  Because you can watch Kneecap just as, for a bit of fun and not have to think about the politics at all, or you can sit there and probably break it down as a bloody thesis for university, which people have done! You know, I've seen them being done.
• 25:36
  I get enough bloody emails about them.
• 25:40
  If I do one more university thesis interview,- I might kill myself.
• 25:43
  - Really quickly, Ciara other day told me that I'm like the most pessimistic person she's met, but I'm looking at what's happening in America.
• 25:53
  All funding for everything is going away.
• 25:55
  I'm looking over as a result of us, what's happening over here where suddenly like, everybody needs to spend billions of dollars on defence they didn't have to spend before.
• 26:03
  Where are they going to get that from?
• 26:05
  Guaranteed they're going to start looking for it in places like film funding.
• 26:09
  What happens? First of all, if that happens and what do you do to stop that from happening?
• 26:14
  I mean, these are pretty big questions.
• 26:16
  Well, I mean, film has always, it's always been a challenge to get a film made.
• 26:22
  I don't care what period you're existing in, if you're a person trying to make a film, it's an uphill struggle and the odds are stacked against you.
• 26:31
  I started writing films when I was straight out of university, mid-20s or something.
• 26:36
  I started writing and it's taken me till I'm now 40 to be sitting here now with a feature film.
• 26:43
  I think that you have to believe in the resilience of storytellers, that they will find a way and believing that the cream rises to the top.
• 26:51
  I've always believed that is that even when I've got rejections on things and knockbacks and I've had plenty, that you kind of go, it just actually wasn't good enough.
• 27:00
  And sometimes you look back years later and that thing that you just believed the world was against you, that didn't get made.
• 27:06
  You read it again and go, nah, it just wasn't good enough.
• 27:08
  And I think that as a filmmaker, you have to believe everyone wants to make a good film, right?
• 27:14
  Everyone wants the great script, and if you make the great script, you're in with a shot.
• 27:20
  So the power is in your hands and you will get it made if it's good enough.
• 27:24
  And I know that's a very optimistic view compared to your cynical view, but I'm sticking with it.
• 27:31
  Rich Peppiatt. Check out our episode about Ireland from a couple weeks back to hear him and others talking aboutKneecap's place in Irish film history.
• 27:39
  That episode is packed with other great Irish filmmakers, by the way, including Kerry Crowley, who actually starred in The Quiet Girl.
• 27:45
  Also follow us to hear more of our season about movie cultures around the globe.
• 27:49
  Next week we're taking a mid-season break, but the week after that tune in as I venture to the exotic land of my adopted hometown, actually Los Angeles.
• 27:58
  I always think when it comes to LA that it has everything if you know where to look.
• 28:03
  And I think that's one of the reasons why this is such a good film town is like, if you need a house that looks like a castle in Ireland, like there's one, I don't know where, but it's here.
• 28:12
  Take that Belfast.
• 28:14
  Guests for that episode, include that guy Evan Goldberg, co-creator with Seth Rogen of the hit series The Studio.
• 28:20
  Follow us so you don't miss it.
• 28:22
  Meanwhile, if you love the show, do leave a five star review wherever you listen.
• 28:25
  It helps others find and love us, too.
• 28:27
  And if you got questions, comments, or some Irish language poetry you want to share, please do it.
• 28:32
  Our email is podcast@mubi.com And now let's roll credits.
• 28:36
  This episode was hosted, written and recorded by me Rico Gagliano Ciara McEniff produced it Christian Coons edited and mastered it.
• 28:43
  Our assistant producer is Kat Kowalczyk.
• 28:43
  Theme music by Yuri Suzuki.
• 28:47
  Thanks this week to Ross McDonnell and Niall McEniff.
• 28:50
  The show is executive produced by me along with Efe Çakarel Daniel Kasman and Michael Tacca.
• 28:54
  And finally to watch the best in cinema, including the award winning Irish language revenge thrillerBring Them Down starring Barry Keoghan, head over to MUBI.com to start watching.
• 29:02
  Thanks for listening.
• 29:05
  Go watch some movies and travel tip: never accept a ride from the shady dude outside the airport going...
• 29:12
  "You need a ride?"