Latest / Specialty Matcha Podcast / Interview with Rocky's Matcha, Rocky

Transcript

Interview with Rocky's Matcha, Rocky · Specialty Matcha Podcast

0:00
Hello and welcome to the Specialty Match Podcast.
0:02
My name is Ryan. This is Michael Ho Sunjun, who
0:05
also goes by Sam. Hello.
0:06
And we're the cofounders of Sanco Matcha Products.
0:09
Yeah, we launched this podcast to discuss our learning journey,
0:11
Matcha, share startup stories and interview experts.
0:14
And today we have Rocky Shu from Rocky's Matcha joining us.
0:18
Welcome, Rocky. Hey.
0:19
Guys, what's going on? How are you?
0:21
Awesome, awesome. So yeah, before we dive into all
0:24
the questions, would you be able to share a little bit about, you
0:28
know, your personal and professional Akron?
0:30
Yeah, So my name is Rocky Shu I I'm the founder of Rocky's
0:35
Matcha. Started Rocky's Matcha a few
0:38
years ago now. I'd say probably like 2022, the
0:42
2022 we did our first pop up and it's been quite the ride.
0:48
Obviously Matcha has seen a meteoric rise in in in the
0:52
overall category. And I think, you know, we've
0:55
been blessed to be a part of that.
0:56
As far as professional journey, yeah, I mean, I've, I've, I've
1:01
worked a number of jobs. You know, I started my career in
1:04
China at, at Nike China. And then I actually moved to New
1:10
York for a little bit. And then about nine years ago, I
1:13
moved to Los Angeles. So I've kind of lived all over
1:17
the world, traveled quite a bit, you know, Tokyo at this point
1:20
now just from going there so much for various things related
1:24
to tea or just travel, you know, also feels like a second home.
1:28
Ryan and I had a chance to meet randomly and in in a in a couple
1:32
of different parts of the world. But the more recent time was was
1:35
in Paris, which also feels like, you know, another home away from
1:39
home. But yeah, I guess, you know, I
1:41
hope that sums it up. But you know, obviously we can
1:44
we can get into any other questions that you guys might
1:47
have or what have you. Awesome.
1:49
Yeah, we we share some former like home bases because Zhangjun
1:53
lived in Jingan in Shanghai for three years and we both lived in
1:58
New York. Yeah, I lived in, I lived in
1:59
Jingan for like, I mean, it's almost almost six years.
2:04
Oh, cool, cool. Wow.
2:05
That's overlap. Yeah, yeah, we definitely
2:08
overlapped. Yeah.
2:10
That's super cool. Beautiful neighborhood.
2:12
Yeah, cool. Well, I guess my first question
2:15
was right. I'd love to hear a bit more
2:17
about the origin story of like, what was the impetus like I
2:20
guess one, how did you get into matcha and like how was it
2:23
played a journey in your life? And then how did that manifest
2:27
into rocky matcha both at 1st? And then how was that evolved?
2:31
Yeah, so, so I lived in New York from 2013 to 2016.
2:37
You know, at that time when I was living in New York, there
2:40
was kind of like, I don't know if you want to call it like
2:42
first wave of, of matcha cafes or matcha bars.
2:47
Literally matcha bar was, was, was one of the first places that
2:50
I'd gone and gotten a matcha. And then obviously the guys from
2:53
Chacha Matcha, you know, played a played a pretty big role in,
2:57
in, in introducing matcha to, you know, millennial Lindsay.
3:03
And you started to see more and more cafes carrying matcha
3:07
around that time. So this is like 2014, 2015.
3:11
So at that point, I, you know, obviously heard of matcha to
3:15
matcha, but it's by no means part of everyday life.
3:20
It was very much kind of like, OK, go, you know, to matcha bar
3:24
chacha matcha, get a matcha, whatever.
3:26
And you know, kind of go about your day in 2000, I would say
3:30
maybe a few months into the pandemic, I made the decision to
3:34
go and do some energy work with this spiritual guide energy
3:40
healer. Some people might call him a
3:42
shaman. And you know, something that
3:46
friends of mine and former Co workers of mine had gone and
3:50
said that it was, you know, quite the experience.
3:53
And at that point in time, I think a lot of us were cooped up
3:56
at home and looking for different ways to pass time or
4:00
maybe getting a little bit more spiritual or reading more books
4:03
or cooking or, you know, all of the above, right.
4:06
And so I went and, and, and sought them out and, and we did
4:12
some energy work. I'd say it was probably like a
4:14
3-4 hour experience All in all. And towards the end of the
4:19
session, he kind of, you know, decided he was like, OK, I'm
4:22
going to put you on a 21 day chakra cleanse.
4:24
And we, you know, he was like, there's certain things that you
4:29
need to kind of adhere to. So it was no alcohol, no
4:33
tobacco, no sex, etcetera. And I was like, OK, no problem.
4:36
I'm at home by myself. Like all of this is, is, is
4:39
fine. Like I, I didn't smoke to begin
4:41
with. And, you know, I was never like,
4:44
I was never somebody that, that that would ever drink by
4:46
themselves, right. And, you know, so anyways, I'm
4:50
like getting ready to leave and, and go about my day.
4:53
And he goes, hey, there's one more thing.
4:56
It's kind of like that famous, like Steve Jobs, like one more
5:00
thing, right? And so he goes, there's one more
5:02
thing. And I was like, OK, yeah, like,
5:03
what's up? And he goes, hey, do you drink
5:06
coffee? And I was like, oh, yeah, like
5:08
2-3, four cups of coffee a day. Love going to, you know,
5:11
whatever coffee shop get my Americano or cold brew or, you
5:16
know, whatever, Right. And he goes, yeah, OK, I think I
5:18
need you to stop drinking coffee.
5:20
And I was like, as a part of this cleanser, like, what are we
5:23
talking about? And he was like, no, no, no,
5:25
like, I think you should actually just consider giving up
5:27
coffee like entirely. And I was just like, all right,
5:29
dude, like everything else we talked about today, like, I'm
5:32
pretty sure I can do like, this, this, this giving coffee thing.
5:36
Yeah. I don't know.
5:37
And he was like, no, just trust me.
5:38
He was like, it has a tendency to kind of like, get you too
5:40
high and too low. And, you know, like, he's like,
5:43
I think it might be good for you to just stay a little bit more
5:45
even keeled. I'm like, OK, all right, I'm
5:48
willing to try everything once. But at that point, I'm like, I
5:50
need to go get a coffee because like, if he's telling me that I
5:53
got to stop drinking coffee right now, I need to go have,
5:55
like, one last coffee, right. And yeah, and, and, and so he
6:01
was, he, he basically said like, if you need caffeine, switch
6:05
over to tea. You'll find that it's, it's,
6:07
it's a little bit more calmer, it's smoother.
6:10
There's not as much of that peak and, or there's not as much of
6:13
the peak and valley of coffee. And I was like, OK, all right,
6:16
like I'm done to give, I'm always happy to give everything
6:19
a, a, a try. And at that point in time at
6:22
home had somebody had sent me a matcha set or like a whisk and
6:27
some matcha. And so I get home and, and I
6:30
start making matcha and different types of tea, whether
6:34
it's black tea, green tea. And I really found making a
6:40
matcha every morning to be somewhat therapeutic and, and
6:47
very much like there was a ritual aspect of it.
6:51
And so I found myself at that point in 2020 and you know, as
6:56
we kind of like moved into 21 and 22, doing what a lot of
7:01
people are doing now in terms of like seeking out high quality
7:05
matcha, whether it's in Japan or other parts of the world and
7:09
buying it and getting it shipped back to the US via like FedEx,
7:14
DHL, whatever. Right?
7:16
And so I was that person that was, I wasn't quite doing all of
7:20
the matcha reviews, but I was buying a lot of the different
7:24
matcha blends that I could find online, whether it was Epodo or
7:28
Marquis Coleman or whoever. And I, you know, was purchasing
7:33
quite a bit of it and making matcha at home.
7:35
And I would even go so far as to kind of like bring it with me
7:39
when I traveled, friends of mine started to notice.
7:41
And one of my close friends, Paulo, who has a business
7:45
partner in Japan, he one day was just like, hey, like you've been
7:49
doing this corporate thing for, for for a long time.
7:52
Like, why don't you do your own thing?
7:53
Like, have you ever thought about doing your own thing?
7:56
And I was like, yeah, no, I don't.
7:59
You know, I'm like, I like the safety net of of of, of having a
8:03
paycheck every two weeks benefits, all that right.
8:07
And he was like, no, no, no, but like you should think about like
8:10
doing your own thing. He's like, I know you got the
8:11
mantra thing, like, why don't you just, you know, do something
8:13
with that? He's like, you know, me and his
8:15
business partners is multi hyphenate creative name Verde.
8:19
He was like, you know, me and Verde will support you whatever
8:21
you need, this, this and that. And I was like, OK, like, if
8:23
that's the case, like maybe you guys can do the branding.
8:26
We'll come up with the name this and that.
8:27
Fast forward a couple months, he goes, Hey, like would you want
8:31
to bring your mantra to this, the flea market that I'm
8:34
starting? And I was like, I don't even
8:36
have a name for this yet. I don't like, you know, we have
8:39
no branding. We have nothing.
8:41
Like I don't even know where I'm getting this product.
8:42
You know, at that point I was just purchasing like product
8:45
wherever I could and just kind of like, you know, using that
8:48
right? Like, and it, and it very much
8:50
was not a business. And he and, and, and Paula was
8:53
like, hey, like we have Henry's pizza in Osaka, Japan, you know,
8:58
Henry's pizza. There's no actual Henry, but
9:00
it's Henry's pizza. And then he's like, and then I'm
9:02
going to have my mom do her empanadas at the flea market
9:04
too. We're going to call it Carmen's,
9:06
Carmen's empanadas. He's like, just call it Rocky's
9:09
matcha. You can always just change the
9:10
name later. And I was like, all right, sure,
9:12
like we can change the name later.
9:15
I'm, I'm not the type of person that most of my close friends
9:17
know that I'm not the type of person.
9:19
I still have very much like a lot of imposter syndrome when it
9:22
comes to like the fact that, you know, my name is, is on the
9:25
product, but I think it's generic or, or, or, you know,
9:30
special enough of a generic and special enough of a name at the
9:34
same time that it doesn't necessarily have to be me.
9:36
So it's just like, oh, Rocky's matcha.
9:37
It's like you don't actually need the, the, the founder front
9:40
and center. And I'm try to do that a little
9:43
bit more. I would say over the last like
9:45
few months, it's kind of create a little bit of distance.
9:48
You know, here I am doing doing this podcast with you guys.
9:52
All that, all that to say, Aki's matcha started at my friend, my
9:58
close friend Paulo's flea market called Central Flea.
10:01
Him and his business partner Verdi did not have a chance to
10:06
help with the branding. They were quite busy.
10:09
And so I'd hit up another good friend of mine who now is, is is
10:14
is a partner in the business, Max Arkin to help me with the
10:17
brand identity. And he did.
10:19
And, you know, now it's been three years and we've had to
10:24
change the company from one entity to another entity.
10:27
And, you know, we've gone through various different
10:29
suppliers and, you know, like we've seen the business sort of
10:33
grow out of my apartment into an office.
10:36
And, you know, now we're working with the different types of
10:39
people both in Japan, but I mean, there's even someone in
10:43
Paris that we work with. There's, you know, all sorts of
10:45
different food facilities now here in Southern California that
10:49
we're working with. And, you know, the, the, the
10:51
journey has been, has been a lot of fun.
10:53
It's, it's definitely stressful at times, but at the same time,
10:57
I think there's nothing more rewarding than having something
11:01
that is your own. And you know, you're also able
11:04
to provide for your employees and, and give them an
11:08
opportunity to, you know, learn and grow and you know, their
11:12
livelihoods are, are are sort of dependent on the trajectory of
11:17
the of the business. But I mean, you guys know this
11:19
from starting your own businesses and obviously doing
11:22
various things, so. Start start up throughout.
11:27
Yeah, hopefully, hopefully that answers your question, Ryan.
11:31
Super interesting. Yeah, that's the team now, just
11:34
out of curiosity. The team is, we're growing, I
11:39
would say full time. We have like 5 or 6 different
11:41
people and then with part time staff and contractors and it
11:48
varies month by month. But I would say, you know, if
11:50
you're not including like kind of like professional services
11:53
like accountant and lawyers and all that.
11:55
And we're probably, we, we probably flex up to like
11:58
somewhere between 10 and 15 every month with like
12:01
contractors. And yeah, so, yeah, we have, we
12:04
have, we have a couple of folks in Japan helping us now.
12:07
And yeah, business is, is, is definitely grown.
12:11
But you know, I feel like, like anybody else in the macho space,
12:13
business has probably grown for the most part over the last like
12:16
9 to 12 months. Yeah, we're, we're, we're
12:19
definitely, you know, I count my blessings every day and I'm, I'm
12:23
super grateful for I, I, I guess you could say stumbling, you
12:27
know, across this, this, this industry super.
12:31
Interesting. Well, I guess this is like very
12:34
different from like your past corporate life in Nikes and all
12:39
those places. Did any of those experience back
12:42
in those large corporations help you build Rocky's Matcha or
12:47
what's the difference? The difference?
12:49
Yeah. I mean, so when I was at Nike,
12:51
one of the departments that I worked in was a department
12:55
called Energy Marketing. I think that name just kind of
12:57
changed over the years, but energy marketing was by, you
13:01
know, I'm trying to think like by Nike standards, but also like
13:05
just general marketing, kind of, you know, nomenclature.
13:08
It was always meant to kind of find ways to extend the brand
13:12
beyond what the brand actually like, you know, was grounded in.
13:16
So for Nike, it was sport, right?
13:17
So as an energy, as a as a person who worked in energy
13:21
marketing, it was our job to go out and find ways to
13:24
dimensionalize the brand beyond sport.
13:26
And specifically we look to fashion, food, design, art,
13:31
culture, right? And I would say that and
13:36
thinking about how to extend the brand and take it to new places
13:42
and the idea of collaboration, you know, these sort of things
13:45
definitely help me think. Me and Max think about how we
13:49
wanted to position Rocky's matcha.
13:51
And you know, none of this is his fabricated.
13:55
Like it's all very much organic because Max and I have a lot of
13:58
genuine interest beyond just matcha.
14:01
I mean, Max is even caffeine sensitive, so he's not like
14:04
drinking as much much as I am, but you know, he's he's
14:08
naturally he comes from more like music and design space.
14:12
I obviously come from more of like this sports brand, athletic
14:16
performance slash, you know, art design slash fashion, whatever
14:20
you want to call it, right space.
14:22
And so I think the beauty of like the two of us working
14:25
together on this is that like we've been able to take
14:28
something that is sacred and, you know, 1000 plus year old
14:33
kind of product and think about it a little differently.
14:38
And, and, and not so much that like we want to bastardize it by
14:41
any means. Like we want to, you know, like
14:44
shine a light on it. We just want to kind of do it
14:47
through our own vantage point or perspective where we can
14:52
hopefully take it somewhere new and it's still very like
14:55
authentic and grounded way. And so I would say like my time
15:00
in Nike, spending time in a big organization, but also thinking
15:03
about it from like the actual, you know, specifics of my job
15:07
have really helped me kind of think about Rocky's matcha.
15:10
And, you know, we've been fortunate enough to work with
15:13
some amazing brands in the short amount of time that we've been
15:16
around. You know, we've done stuff with
15:18
Nike, we've done stuff with Louis Vuitton.
15:21
We this year we did something with Barito, you know, the list
15:24
goes on and on. So yeah, I mean, like I would
15:27
say like in the spirit of collaboration and and and
15:30
partnership, a lot of what I learned at the big brand at
15:35
Nike, I've been able to sort of replicate with with a much
15:38
smaller brand, Rockies Matcha very.
15:40
Cool. Wow, you did collaboration with
15:42
Bairito. It's like, yeah, fine fragrance
15:44
and with Matcha. Yeah, they, they, they, they
15:49
asked us, you know, to they, they, they did a big store
15:53
opening and product launch in Tokyo and they asked us to come
15:57
out and, you know, be a part of it.
15:59
And yeah, you know, talk about imposter syndrome, like selling
16:02
macho in, in Japan, you know, with a, with a Swedish brand.
16:07
No, it was, it was, it was great.
16:09
And you know, we've done a few things in in Tokyo now and you
16:12
know, we've been again, like fortunate enough to work with
16:15
like local Japanese brands, like a guy as well over the years.
16:18
And like it's, it's been really humbling to have these
16:23
opportunities and, and to do these things you.
16:25
Said something really striking and it was adding dimensionality
16:29
to a brand sort of beyond the traditional spheres in which
16:32
people think of and like Rocky's matcha in particular, like you
16:36
guys have one of the most iconic matcha brands out there.
16:39
And it's almost more of a feeling that that dimensionality
16:43
to me is a feeling like the the can that you did with Dreaming
16:46
Man. For those of you who can't see
16:48
the video, this is, you know, a can that's wrapped and it almost
16:51
looks like it came out of an Hermes store and it feels like
16:55
French luxury. It's adding dimensions in way
16:58
that don't this could like you very easily feel tacky or out of
17:03
place, but it doesn't. So like how do you do that
17:06
execution? How do you add that
17:08
dimensionality in a way that feels authentic?
17:11
Is the best word I can think of the real magic that you guys
17:15
sprinkle on. Like I don't even want to call
17:18
it the aesthetic because it's more than that.
17:20
Like I I don't have the vocabulary to to.
17:22
No, you're. Ryan.
17:25
I yeah, I mean, I'm honestly, I'm just like, I think blessed
17:29
to be able to work with some of the best and brightest minds in
17:33
the space. The Dreaming man partnership
17:36
came together because. Because again, I, I would go and
17:38
frequent the, the coffee shop in Yuishiro, who's Japanese and
17:43
from Shizuoka. One of the reasons are probably,
17:46
you know, prefectures that we, that we source from, he never
17:50
had matcha on the menu because he was like, I don't want to be
17:53
sort of, you know, cornered into like a Japanese owned coffee
17:57
shop in Paris that sells matcha. You know, when I started doing
18:01
Rockies matcha and was, you know, showing up and and and
18:04
doing pop ups with them, he was like, Oh no, there's maybe is
18:07
something here like why don't we offer matcha at one of their
18:10
other locations? You know, maybe I'm I'm taking a
18:12
roundabout way to get back to your question, Ryan.
18:14
But through that, we started working with another friend from
18:18
Japan, Ryuto Miyake. And Ryuto did the branding for
18:22
Dreaming Man And he has since, you know, he not even since, but
18:27
he's, he's done so much work over the years.
18:29
He's worked with Gucci, he's worked with Arctarex.
18:32
He's, you know, obviously worked with us and dreaming man.
18:35
And I mean, if you go to his website, you can see all the
18:37
amazing brands as he's, that he's worked with.
18:40
And so through dreaming Man, he discovered Rita's work and, you
18:45
know, became friendly with them. And Max, my business partner and
18:48
I, Max does all of all of the creative for, for Rocky's
18:51
matcha. You know, we started working
18:53
with Rita and you know, I'm talking to you show at Dreaming
18:57
Man. We decided we're like, hey, like
18:58
maybe there's something that we can do here.
19:00
Like dreaming man's brand, you know, identity is, is, is really
19:03
iconic. You know, we'd love to do
19:05
something special for you guys because they're the only
19:08
retailer that that that we work with in Europe.
19:12
Like really officially, you know, a lot of that is just
19:15
organic friendship. That's grown over the last like
19:19
5 years. You sure?
19:20
Of course was like, all right, well, let's bring on Rita.
19:23
You know, there's just this organic relationship that that
19:28
that came about. We honestly just let Rita kind
19:32
of like go crazy. You know, he took, he obviously
19:34
didn't, didn't sort of deviate too much from like where we've
19:39
been in terms of like certain things, like he didn't change
19:41
the form factor of the tin. You know, he left the logo up at
19:44
the top of the tin, but then he really applied some of the
19:47
amazing things that he's done for Dreaming Man to, you know,
19:50
to the tin. And so I say all of that to say,
19:54
like for us, like Max, my business partners, largely
19:58
responsible for like our brand identity, our creative, our, you
20:01
know, like this, this sort of feeling that we want to evoke,
20:07
but also this brand that we want to stand for.
20:09
And then at the same time, you know, a lot of it is just
20:12
organic and working with people that are.
20:16
The best at what they do in the fields that they do, you know,
20:19
that that their their practices in, but maybe they just haven't
20:23
worked on anything that's either, you know, food related
20:26
or tea related or obviously macho related.
20:30
And then we're just asking them to kind of like bring their
20:33
point of view to, to to this industry.
20:36
So yeah. Creative outlet for some, for
20:39
for other people, basically. Yeah, so.
20:42
There isn't really like kind of like a, you know, a brand
20:46
identity guideline that is being set in the beginning, but you
20:50
know, you kind of offer everyone a platform to kind of add their
20:53
own interpretation. Yeah.
20:55
I mean, I would, I would say the, the only guidelines are
20:59
that there is somewhat of like we, we, we never want anything
21:02
to feel forced. We always want things to feel
21:05
organic and natural. And, you know, the second that
21:07
we're not having fun or the second that this feels forced,
21:11
like I would say we, we, we, we probably say, OK, you know what,
21:13
like this maybe doesn't make sense of this moment in time.
21:16
Like we'll push pause and, you know, we can always come back to
21:19
it. But now as we're growing, I
21:21
would say we're starting to have to put maybe some more
21:24
guardrails around what it is that we do.
21:27
And all of that. So yeah, we're still super like
21:31
nimble and young company. And you know, we never wanted to
21:34
feel too corporate, but obviously as we grow, we
21:37
definitely need to kind of like put more guardrails and
21:39
parameters in place to make sure that we keep or we upkeep the
21:43
brand at a certain level. Something that you guys have
21:46
done and something you've talked about on other podcasts too is I
21:49
think you used the term event capture.
21:51
I'm like really new to this marketing space and world in
21:54
general, so apologies if that's the wrong lingo.
21:56
But how do you guys think about those investments and like
21:59
capturing the content and the people and the way you kind of
22:03
expose that and share that dimensionality on platforms?
22:07
Yeah, I mean, look, we, we, we started the brand started like
22:11
and even like the logo, right or the, or the brand identity, you
22:14
know the mark like the kind of chicken scratch like that's
22:17
Maxes handwriting. It's, it's, it's not mine, but
22:20
it's Maxes. And it started because this idea
22:24
or the brief that I gave him was like, hey, like I kind of want
22:27
this to feel like a lemonade stand.
22:29
You know, like when you're a kid and, and you're Hawking lemonade
22:32
for, you know, $0.25 now it's probably $1.50, right?
22:36
But you're selling lemonade on the side of the road.
22:39
And that honestly was kind of how we got started.
22:41
Like we, we started by doing pop ups.
22:43
We started by not having any tins or jars or containers,
22:47
canisters, whatever you want to call it for sale.
22:49
We started by selling matcha at events, events that sort of
22:54
aligned with our interests and a lot of our community, you know,
22:58
were at those events. And, and from there we just
23:03
decided that like it would make sense, like, you know, from a
23:06
content perspective, like to be able to share that with, with
23:09
everybody, right? Like, and this is like what
23:11
we're doing. We're, we're looking to build
23:12
community and engage with our audience a little bit
23:16
differently. We never wanted to feel like we
23:18
were speaking down to people. We were, you know, like trying
23:22
to sort of be on this high horse and, you know, tell everybody
23:25
that they don't know what they're talking about when it
23:27
comes to matcha or this and that.
23:28
Like if anything, like you want to help educate and also just
23:33
bring people along for the going back to like the events.
23:37
I think community is so important to the success of, of,
23:41
of, of any brand. Again, I think we've just been
23:44
lucky where, you know, we I've made a lot of friends over the
23:49
years and, you know, this was a was, was, was a space in which,
23:54
you know, not necessarily like everybody was thinking about
23:57
food or, you know, most of my friends have worked in fashion
24:01
and design and art over the years.
24:03
And, you know, now there's a whole new wave of entrepreneurs
24:07
that are looking to, you know, bring their touch to the food
24:12
space. One of my other best friends,
24:14
Pedro, he Pedro was actually the, the person who introduced
24:17
Max and I, but Pedro opened Community goods in 2020, I
24:22
believe. So it's been about two years or
24:24
two plus years now. And you know, I mean the name
24:27
even, you know, it has community in the name of the, of the cafe.
24:30
Like it's arguably the most successful cafe here in Los
24:33
Angeles. There's a line down the block at
24:36
7:00 AM when they open. But you know, he and I, I think,
24:39
like, I think you would agree. But like, you know, we, we, we
24:42
approached things very kind of like honestly and holistically.
24:46
And, you know, we really want what we're building to represent
24:50
the community that we come from or the communities that we come
24:53
from. And you know, he always wanted
24:55
to set out and just build a place that his friends could go
24:58
and get a coffee or a matcha or, you know, a sandwich at and be
25:02
able to hang out. And, you know, it's kind of the
25:04
same for us when we started, which was we wanted to serve a
25:07
good cup of matcha for great people everywhere.
25:09
And you know, our traveling tea house kind of went around the
25:12
world from LA to New York to Chicago to Miami to Tokyo, Even
25:17
so on and so forth. And obviously more recently,
25:20
Brian in in Paris, right. And so all of the events and
25:25
just being able to share that, you know, like with the world,
25:29
like was, was, was something that we thought would be be
25:33
interesting. So yeah, hopefully that answers,
25:37
you know, your, your, your question as far as like event
25:39
capture and. Awesome.
25:42
Wow, very interesting. So I guess a follow up question
25:44
on top of that is do you usually have kind of like a direction or
25:49
you know, certain types of event that you are, you know, actively
25:51
thinking about to activate or you just kind of let you know
25:55
the relationship started organically and you know, take
25:58
what? Yeah, most if not all the events
26:00
that we've done are birthed out of organic relationships.
26:04
A lot of brands that reach out now, you know, if there's no
26:09
sort of direct connection to us or personal connection to me or
26:13
someone on the team, we respectfully will, will, will
26:17
decline or we'll just say, hey, maybe this isn't to make the
26:20
most sense for us at this moment in time.
26:22
In 2023, going into 24, I think one of my goals for the, for the
26:27
company was to do an event every month.
26:30
And I think we probably did more than that.
26:33
But you know, now I think it's, it's, it's, it's a matter of
26:37
does this event make sense? You know, who's, who's the event
26:41
speaking to? Is our audience already thinking
26:44
about this event? And if not, is it a new
26:46
audience? You know, how easy is this event
26:50
or brand that we're potentially going to be working with going
26:53
to be to work with? You know, we, we don't want to
26:57
think, we don't want to do things that just, you know, are
27:00
disingenuous or don't feel right.
27:02
We don't want to do things that are just, you know, like a money
27:05
grab or what have you. Like, I think like most of the
27:08
events that we do, to be honest, like we don't make money on.
27:11
But for us, it's a, it's a way to, you know, celebrate our
27:15
community and, and to, you know, share our love for matcha and
27:21
design and, you know, just good organic relationships with with
27:26
with one another. I mean, this more recent one
27:29
that we did in and Paris, that Dreaming man, like this is the
27:33
third or fourth time that we had worked together.
27:35
Obviously, we had decided to kind of use this moment to
27:37
release the collaborative 10 that we did together.
27:40
But you know, it was just kind of like, let's do something
27:44
together. It was a day after Fethullah
27:46
music and in Paris and, you know, a lot of people were like
27:49
still maybe hungover or moving a little slow from the night
27:52
before. And Yuichiro and UE, Yuichiro's
27:57
partner surprised me. And they're like, hey, we
27:59
actually got the the saucer machine.
28:02
So we're going to do matcha soft serve.
28:04
And, you know, we served, I served.
28:07
I was making matcha, you know, for six hours and we just
28:11
invited our friends. Ryan came and, you know, a lot
28:14
of other folks that I, you know, either met briefly or, you know,
28:17
maybe I'd not met yet would come by and just say hi.
28:21
And it's, it's, it's amazing that, you know, tea can kind of
28:24
like take you all over the world and and, you know, introduce you
28:27
to people like, you know, the two of you guys, right.
28:30
So, yeah, all that to say, I think like making sure that the,
28:34
that the event feels like it's an authentic and organic thing
28:38
for us is, is probably the most important, most, most of these
28:42
things. You know, I, I, I wish I could
28:44
say that they made a lot of money, but but they don't.
28:46
And I think it's, I think it's OK that they don't because it's
28:49
not, you know, the events ultimately, yeah, we would love
28:51
for all of the events to make a lot of money.
28:54
But I think for for the time being, it's more about like
28:57
continuing to share our passion and love for good high quality
29:00
matcha with with a growing audience.
29:04
Well, as long as everyone is having fun.
29:06
What, what do you want people to feel when they interact with
29:11
your brand? What's the I don't want to call
29:14
it the mission, but like, what feeling do you want to instill
29:17
in either the communities that you're tapping into and or the
29:21
communities that you're building?
29:22
Yeah. I mean, I, I think like for US,
29:26
one of the things that we're interested in and, and sort of
29:31
helping with whether it's, you know, us or any other matcha or
29:35
tea brand or coffee brand or, you know, what have you, is like
29:38
this idea of of sort of like building a ritual.
29:43
Like I wake up every morning, you know, will usually look at
29:47
my phone, even though I've been trying not to, but I'll look at
29:49
my phone, I'll do a little scrolling emails, what have you.
29:52
And then I'll walk into my kitchen and I will make a
29:55
matcha. And that's how I know my day is
29:59
started, right. Like and, and, and I think like
30:01
one of the things that we want to do is to just introduce tea
30:05
and you know, specifically matcha, matcha green tea to the
30:10
world. And I just let them know that
30:11
this is like in, in making a cup of matcha at home every day or
30:15
on the road or getting a cup of matcha at, at, at your local
30:19
cafes. You know, ways to kind of signal
30:21
to yourself that like the day is, is, is, is starting.
30:25
It's a moment, you know, especially for me at home, it's
30:28
a moment of stillness and, and sort of calmness where I can
30:32
just have a moment to myself and, and not think about the
30:36
million emails or, you know, my long and ever growing To Do
30:41
List. And, you know, it's, it's, it's
30:45
therapeutic, it's meditative, it's all of these things.
30:49
And you know, if we can or if we can play a role in, in, in
30:52
offering that moment to all of our customers and our general
30:56
audience. And you know, I'd be, I'd be
30:58
over the moon. Like a personal ceremony.
31:00
Yeah, yeah, yeah, very, very much so.
31:04
If you invert the question, like what don't you want to be
31:07
associated with or do? Because like you guys feel very
31:11
contemporary, like your collaborations with Tom Saks
31:14
with all of these brands, like, it very much feels like a
31:17
purposeful decision not to wash yourself in traditional Japanese
31:22
tea ceremony or all of these other things.
31:25
And what's really interesting that I've noticed on the
31:27
Internet is the number of traditional Japanese matcha
31:30
players like Tsuji San's Instagram account or Horatio
31:34
Shimayan, that cross poster stuff.
31:37
And I think you're developing interest from the other side at
31:42
the way that you approach it specifically and what you guys
31:45
are not doing? Yeah, so like.
31:48
How do you think about that? And is it like hard lines about
31:52
what you don't want to do or don't want to be perceived as
31:56
and and it seems to really like draw interest from all sides, I
31:59
guess. Yeah, I mean, I think of like
32:02
the Japanese tea ceremony is something that's very sacred.
32:06
I personally have not signed up for tea school, you know, yet,
32:11
but it's something that I've strongly considered and, you
32:14
know, would love to find time to go to tea school and like really
32:18
kind of like learn more about the tea ceremony.
32:20
I have a general idea and, you know, obviously I've gone and
32:23
participated in tea ceremonies, but you know, I don't actually
32:26
know how to administer it from the sort of like practitioner
32:29
side. You know, again, it just goes
32:31
back to this idea of like being authentic and, and, and honest.
32:35
Like I would never want to sell somebody something that I don't
32:40
actually partake in, you know, or, or, or am not experienced or
32:48
am not, you know, an expert in right?
32:51
Like it's not to say that we we can't be someday, but this is
32:55
again, like it's a sacred thing. It's a it's a product of
32:59
originally from China, but obviously it's been perfected in
33:02
Japan and there's so many families and companies and, and
33:07
there's so much rich tradition and what this means in the other
33:11
side or the other part of the world where we definitely like
33:14
we don't want to bastardize that.
33:15
Like that's not who we are. And so I think like where we're
33:19
able to provide value is to, you know, like with Suji San or with
33:26
Horty, like, I mean, it took two years, I think, before Chunta
33:30
from Horty Chichi man, like even got back to me.
33:33
And I think it, it took us. And I think honestly, like he
33:37
even told me he was like, oh, I saw that, you know, you're
33:39
working with Tom Sacks. Like we, we they had done some
33:42
stuff with Theaster Gates, another artist, and he was like,
33:45
I, I really like what you're doing.
33:46
Like, I think it's cool. And like, you know, yeah, like I
33:49
would like to find a way for us to work together.
33:51
And I think it takes like us, it took us, you know, being patient
33:55
and, and, and doing things our way where we would honor and
34:01
stay true to sort of like the way in which the tea producers
34:05
and farmers and companies of like more traditional Japanese
34:09
tea wanted their tea to essentially be consumed.
34:12
Like we always try to prioritize that.
34:14
You know, one of the things that I think we never really set out
34:18
to do is like we don't want to be, we're so blessed right now
34:22
to kind of like be in the position that we're in, you
34:24
know, because matcha is obviously seen this boom really
34:27
in the last like 912 months, right, 6 to 12 months.
34:30
And you know, what we don't want to be is like, we don't want to
34:34
just be a flash in the pan. Like we don't want to just be
34:37
like this month's flavor. You know, whether it's a mango
34:40
matcha lot lassie or strawberry matcha infused, you know,
34:44
whatever. Like, I'm not saying that
34:46
there's anything wrong with that.
34:47
And I'm not saying that, you know, there's food service cafes
34:50
or restaurants that want to purchase our product and, and,
34:53
and, and, you know, make a drink like that, Like there's
34:55
absolutely nothing wrong with that.
34:56
But I think for us, that's just not who we, and maybe I'm taking
35:01
a book out of, you know, Zach from Kettle's book, but taking a
35:04
page out of out of Zach's book. But like, you know, I, I've
35:07
always admired and really looked up to how like Zach and, and,
35:11
and the team of Kettle have built their business because
35:13
they've really stayed true to it.
35:14
And, you know, they've been doing this for 15 years.
35:17
And so I think for us, you know, our maybe unique way of adding
35:21
value is, is, is to stay true, but at the same time, you know,
35:25
add a little bit of like our sort of background, you know,
35:30
Max and myself, like our, our background to what it is that we
35:34
are offering up to the to the, to the world.
35:38
Very interesting. Wow.
35:39
It's really, you know, Rocky smart in a way that's, you know,
35:43
it's about you, Rocky and your company, your friends and all
35:46
that and so interesting. And intuition and it's like you,
35:51
I think you've managed to create like a brand that the
35:54
traditional players like we can use Horizon, for example, find
35:58
cool because you see a lot of people wrapping themselves in
36:01
traditional Japanese tea ceremony.
36:03
And it's just kind of a reboot of repackaging of something that
36:07
has a existed for a long time. And you just move the context.
36:11
But it actually feels like it's moving the narrative forward.
36:13
Like with what Tom Sachs did the tea ceremony, but both Zheng Jun
36:17
and I have a Moto sank a background.
36:19
I think Sam studied for about a year and a half.
36:21
I studied for three years and the first time I saw Tom Sachs
36:25
thing, my first thought was this is ridiculous, right?
36:28
Like this is so bastardizing a little Yoda Pez dispenser for
36:32
the wagashi. Like filling up things from a
36:35
fire hydrant. And then you take a second look
36:39
and you realize, wow, this is such a fresh take.
36:42
It's forcing me to look at chanoyu and tea ceremony in a
36:46
new way because whoever designed this has deep knowledge about
36:51
tea ceremony. It's hidden in all of the
36:54
details and it really forces you to look at something.
36:57
You spent a lot of time moving 2cm the ball, 2cm to the left,
37:03
and you're whisking too hard and you're supposed to turn this
37:05
way, not that way. It forces you to look at it
37:07
through a totally new lens, which is like, I really like
37:10
this idea of contemporary matcha and the way that can be
37:13
expressed in new spaces. It was ridiculous in forms, but
37:17
it really is in coherence with, you know, the idea of symbolism
37:22
in the channel view. Yeah, spirit, not form.
37:26
How did that Tom Saks collaboration come about?
37:29
Tom and I have known each other and worked together when I was
37:33
at at Nike and he had this, he had this beautiful space that he
37:40
had been, he had been sort of curating and opening up to his
37:44
network last summer, the Bodega space.
37:48
A close friend of mine was working with him at the time.
37:51
And, you know, she had reached out and said, like, I think it'd
37:53
be really cool if you wanted to do something.
37:55
And another friend, Benjamin Peterson, who also, you know,
37:58
his Nike alumni had he left Nike and started a, a coffee brand
38:03
Black Beach Coffee. And so, you know, Tom had this
38:06
idea of, you know, it's only Tom can do, decided to call it the
38:10
morning constitutional. And, you know, he, he, he
38:14
invited us to, to, you know, sell matcha and coffee in his
38:20
bodega and we did it for a weekend.
38:23
And, you know, it was amazing. Yeah.
38:25
I mean, I never, never thought in a, in a million years that
38:28
I'd be able to work with, with Tom Sachs on, on, on something
38:31
like that. And, you know, we did it.
38:34
And so, yeah, it was, it was great.
38:35
But again, organic, authentic. And, you know, it wasn't, it
38:39
wasn't forced. Obviously there are people and,
38:41
and, and brands that we've reached out to that, you know,
38:45
kind of also said no to us. It's not like every what
38:48
everyone says says yes. I think again, we're just coming
38:51
from it, coming at it from a place of like authenticity and
38:54
honesty. And hopefully things are, are
38:57
organic. Those are the, the, the events
39:00
and the projects that seem to be the most fun.
39:03
And it doesn't feel like it's forced.
39:05
It doesn't feel like it's just a, a money grab or what have
39:08
you. Yeah.
39:09
What do you mean by authentic? Like what does authenticity mean
39:12
to you in this context or to me? Yeah, I mean, to me, it's just
39:17
like, it's like, are you staying true to yourself, right?
39:21
Like I so I'll get up, maybe like rewind or take a step back.
39:26
I we, we did something earlier this year with a beauty brand.
39:31
So I don't use makeup, right. I don't, you know, like I know
39:34
nothing about it. I know that our audience, you
39:37
know, is, is, is probably an audience that purchases makeup
39:40
and follows various makeup brands, right?
39:43
Like, you know, there, there are a lot of young females out there
39:46
who drink matcha regularly. And, you know, close friend of
39:49
mine, one of my best friends here in LA, she works at, you
39:54
know, one of the, I guess like fastest growing, but also like
39:57
authentic, sort of like brands in the space, in my opinion.
40:00
And you know, the name of the brand is say she had reached out
40:04
and said, like, Hey, like, you know, would you ever want to do
40:06
anything? And I was like, well, I don't
40:07
know anything about makeup. And she, you know, sort of said,
40:10
well, like, you know, like let let us know.
40:12
Like she shared some kind of like insights into the brand.
40:15
And, you know, as I kind of got more familiar and saw a lot of
40:18
the she does like all the special events.
40:20
For, for, for that, for their brand.
40:23
And I saw what she was doing, which was bringing, you know,
40:26
makeup along this journey of like positioning it with like
40:29
really good design, whether it be mid century Modern furniture
40:33
or homes or, you know, different things and like doing and
40:37
curating their events in a very chic way that a lot of beauty
40:40
brands hadn't done before. I was like, well, there's a lot
40:43
of similarity in what you're doing, in the way that you're
40:45
positioning your brand with our brand, like in what we're trying
40:48
to do. And, and, and that's where we
40:50
kind of found alignment. And so, you know, like going
40:55
back to this question of like, what is, what does it mean to be
40:57
authentic? And like, for me, it's like, we
40:59
don't, we didn't necessarily know anything about makeup like
41:02
Max and I like, don't know, like, you know, what is a good
41:05
makeup brand versus not? But like, what we did know is
41:08
that like, here's a brand that one, we had a very organic
41:11
relationship with because of, you know, my relationship with
41:14
Misha, my close friend who who works there.
41:17
And two, you know, what they're trying to do in their space
41:19
mirrored what we're trying to do in our space.
41:21
And that's where we found like, common ground.
41:24
And, you know, to be honest, like that was probably, even
41:28
though it wasn't necessarily like, you know, a partnership
41:31
that I knew super well from the sense of like, I didn't know all
41:36
the insurance and outs of say, beauty versus like a dreaming
41:39
man or Tom Sachs or, you know, what have you?
41:42
I learned a lot along the way and honestly to this day that
41:46
that might have been our most successful partnership or
41:49
collaboration like was doing this this project with would
41:54
say. And so yeah, I think like the
41:57
authenticity bit is like staying true to yourself.
42:00
But like, you know, it's, it's easy to say now, hey, we would
42:04
have done that project, you know, 100 times out of of 100
42:08
times because of all the sort of virality or, you know, social
42:12
media engagement that came out of that.
42:14
But at the same time, like, it's, you know, hindsight's
42:16
2020. Like it's easy to say that now.
42:18
Like we know that we would have done it again just because our
42:21
brand like vision, like for our two brands separate of one
42:25
another, were, were were lined and, you know, we're authentic
42:29
and, and in that sense, and that's why it made sense to work
42:31
together, not just because like, oh, they were like, you know,
42:35
this preeminent beauty brand that's now in Sephora and all
42:38
these places. And, you know, we are, you know,
42:41
debatably like a a cool matcha brand and, you know, we wanted
42:45
to come together and Matcha is this cool thing right now.
42:47
Like, that's not the reason, like we, we, we decided to work
42:50
together because there was a personal relationship, but at
42:52
the same time there was, you know, a very authentic and, and,
42:57
and organic relationship between the two.
43:00
And I would also just add, like Laney the, the, the founder and
43:03
CEO of, of say she drinks matcha every day, you know, and she
43:07
tried different matches. And so, yeah, it's mutual,
43:10
right? And, and, and so, you know, I
43:13
guess maybe to take it just one step further, like 'cause I feel
43:16
like we've spent a good amount of time just talking about like
43:18
partnerships and collaborations. The one thing that I always
43:21
think about is like, OK, if we are going to do something
43:24
together, you know, is this a 1 + 1 = 3 type of equation?
43:29
Or are we solving a problem right?
43:31
Like, you know, could we have, could either brand have done
43:35
this without the other? And it, and it has to be, you
43:39
know, not only not only authentic and, and, and, you
43:42
know, like sort of like honest to both brands, but at the same
43:45
time, like, you know, is it mutually beneficial for, for
43:49
both people? And sometimes it might not be.
43:51
And, you know, I think that's OK.
43:53
You know, you might know, like, hey, in the back of your head,
43:55
like I'm doing this as a favor for someone or I'm doing this
43:58
because, you know, I just want to do it right.
44:00
I think for the most part, like good collaboration, like really,
44:03
you know, looks to answer a, a, a challenger or, or a question.
44:09
And yeah, interesting. Did this kind of mentality also
44:15
imbued into, you know, how you source matcha back in the days
44:19
or till nowadays And like what's your sourcing philosophy?
44:22
And maybe like what, what was your original story of sourcing
44:25
matcha? It's kind of like a question
44:28
that we will ask for all the guests.
44:30
Yeah. I mean, look, I, I think that I
44:34
think we've probably gotten incredibly lucky because we
44:38
started this in 2022 and you know, we were sourcing monster.
44:43
I was visiting Japan in 22 before Japan really even opened
44:47
up open back up to the world. And through, you know, various
44:51
kind of like friends that I've met over the years.
44:53
I got introduced to Tsuji San and, you know, I done some like
45:00
research on the Internet to find like essentially like brokers
45:04
that would help, you know, through the brokers, we would
45:06
meet the producers. And then once we met the
45:07
producers, we show them like, you know, what we're doing.
45:10
You know, for me, the philosophy is like you, the producers that
45:16
we, that we work with, share a passion and a commitment to
45:22
developing and and delivering, you know, like quality product.
45:26
And if they do, then, you know, I think there's a world in which
45:28
we can work together. And, you know, if they don't,
45:30
then we wish them the best and they probably wish us the best
45:34
or hopefully. And, you know, we kind of go,
45:36
go, go, go about it on our own ways.
45:39
But yeah, I, I think we got really lucky where, you know,
45:42
now if you're going out and you want to start a matcha brand,
45:45
it's probably harder and harder because you don't know the
45:47
reasons to even go look at, you don't know the producers.
45:51
You know, we're still in the process of, of, of, of sourcing,
45:55
right? Like we're still looking for new
45:57
producers and suppliers and you know what have you.
46:01
And I would just say we are looking, a lot of it just
46:06
starts, you know, with, with, with a search on the Internet.
46:09
And then from there, you know, we typically would like to go
46:13
and meet with the producer and then, you know, we'll ask for
46:16
samples. And then from there, they'll
46:18
they'll either ship a samples or they won't.
46:20
Or, you know, some sometimes producers have even come all the
46:23
way to Los Angeles, not to specifically visit with us, but
46:27
because, you know, they want to expand their business here.
46:29
And they've heard that matcha is obviously growing quite a bit in
46:32
the US. And, you know, I think like over
46:35
80% of it is exported to the US. And so, you know, some producers
46:39
will ship directly to cafes or food service or, you know, maybe
46:42
they want to set up a distribution company or what
46:44
have you. But yeah, I think it all just
46:46
kind of like goes back to, you know, Brian, you and Sam both
46:49
both said this. But like when people see our
46:51
brand, they one we've we've been lucky to be around for, you
46:56
know, going on three years or three plus years now.
46:58
So there is a catalog or an archive of things that we've
47:01
done that you can find on the Internet.
47:03
So it's not like we're just starting from scratch.
47:05
It's not like, you know, we saw this opportunity and matcha and
47:08
we want to, you know, just go and kind of like take advantage
47:12
of it, right? That's not the case.
47:13
So there's that. And then there's also, I think
47:16
the, the, the part where, you know, we're not looking to, to
47:19
bastardize it. Like we're not looking to, you
47:22
know, take something that is very pure and honest and has so
47:27
much tradition to it. And sort of, you know, re we're
47:30
looking to re maybe recontextualize it, but we're
47:32
not looking to reinvent it and we're not looking to take any
47:35
shortcuts. So yeah, that's where I think
47:37
maybe we've gotten, we've, we've been fortunate.
47:40
But yeah, it's, it's definitely, it's definitely, you know, quite
47:44
the, it's definitely been quite the experience.
47:45
And, you know, some producers we found don't makes sense for for
47:52
us without naming like names, but you know, there was a
47:57
producer recently that we didn't feel like we, we, we had been
48:01
doing business with them for, for well over a year.
48:03
And you know, this last a few months ago we had gone to, to,
48:09
to go visit with them and they saw the boom in, in, in the
48:13
matcha industry. And you could argue that they
48:16
were getting greedy and they wanted to raise their prices.
48:20
Cool, no problem. But then they also wanted to
48:22
change all of their terms And they wanted to basically not
48:26
offer any guarantees in terms of, you know, what we had been
48:30
able to purchase the previous year versus this year because
48:34
they're essentially saying that they wanted to open it up for,
48:37
for forbidding. And then, you know, they're like
48:39
so and by the way, like, you know, we can't guarantee that
48:42
like what you purchased last year, you can purchase this
48:44
year. And you know, we can't guarantee
48:46
that, you know, we can ship you everything on time and this and
48:49
that. And we're just like, you know
48:51
what? Like they wouldn't.
48:52
Never apply in any other industry.
48:55
You can't guarantee how much or when you will get it.
48:58
I also get it because this is something that's, you know,
49:01
completely unprecedented and farmers and producers have not
49:06
made the most money over the years, right?
49:08
So I also see it from their perspective, like this is an
49:11
opportunity to cash in and, and make a significant amount of
49:14
money. And I think there's a way to do
49:16
it and there's a there's a way not to do it.
49:18
And, you know, I wish that producer nothing but the best
49:21
and hopefully their business continues to do well.
49:24
But I think just for us, it didn't make sense, right?
49:27
Like it didn't make sense to kind of like continue working
49:29
with someone who seemed to not be able to stand behind their,
49:33
their word. And then there's also producers
49:35
that we have like very, very, very strong relationships with
49:38
our friends at Osada Secha and Chizuka.
49:41
They're great when you go who's, who's our contact there?
49:44
He and I met at a tea conference in Las Vegas of all places.
49:47
You know, I happen to be in Japan like maybe like a week or
49:51
two after that tea conference. And he was like, why don't you
49:53
come to Suzuka? And, and I did.
49:55
And now literally, you know, I pretty much go visit them like
49:58
every single trip one, because it's closest to Tokyo, but 2
50:01
like you. And I've developed like a, a
50:03
very kind of like, just like genuine friendship over over the
50:07
last, like, you know, couple of years.
50:09
And, you know, we're, we're, we're at a point where, you
50:13
know, we're, we're talking to them about how we can even
50:15
support them a step further in addition to just buying the
50:18
product from them. But it's like, OK, what are some
50:20
things that we can do for you for, for, for you guys?
50:23
You know, like, do you need, you know, most people, I think like,
50:27
or most businesses in Japan are, are, are, are somewhat
50:30
conservative. But you know, we're saying to
50:31
them, like, are there things that we can do, whether it's
50:33
like additional capital or, you know, resources that we can kind
50:37
of like devote to what you guys are building?
50:39
Because we believe in what you are, are, are, are producing
50:43
here and the way in which you're going about your business.
50:46
And and and also, you know, maybe the last thing I would say
50:49
is like we there's another producer of not matcha, but
50:55
just, you know, matcha or tea Ware, right, Sui cayenne.
50:58
They are a 6th generation, you know, Chasa maker and and and
51:02
nada. But we, you know, I don't even
51:06
know if they know this yet, but like, I, I told them this, we
51:09
just haven't like actually like we're going to wait till maybe
51:12
like year end to follow through on it.
51:13
But like, you know, Kay, who's, who's our friend there, who like
51:16
went to, went to College in the US, moved back to Japan, was
51:19
working at ASICS, left ASICS to go back into the family business
51:24
to preserve this kind of like centuries, you know, long multi
51:28
century craft that's been preserved in his family.
51:31
Like he went back, gave up his, you know, like modern job to go
51:35
back to the family business in the countryside to, to do this.
51:39
Like there's a dedication on his side to to to want to preserve
51:43
what his family has been building.
51:45
And for us, it's easy to say like, Oh yeah, like we can, we
51:49
can purchase, you know, whatever it is that they are producing,
51:51
whether it's the Chasans, whether it's, you know, the with
51:54
stands or what have you. But like, there's so much
51:56
history there that like, it deserves to be kind of preserved
52:00
and, and kept intact. And so one of the things that we
52:03
want to do is we actually want to take the majority, if not all
52:06
of the profits that we make from selling their products and give
52:09
it back to them so that they can continue to hire essentially
52:13
more people in order to educate them about, you know, the
52:17
process in which what they're, what, what they're doing.
52:20
You know, they, when, when we first visited with them maybe
52:23
like a year ago, they could only make 7 chasins a day.
52:26
And then this more recent visit, they are now able to make, I
52:30
think like 20 or so. And the hardest thing for them
52:33
is they can't find people to, to, to to educate and teach.
52:39
And, you know, sort of like, you know, it's very technical,
52:41
right? And so like for us, like it's
52:43
not like we sell a million of, you know, what they're able to
52:47
produce. Like we, we sell what were
52:49
essentially allocated. And, you know, for us, it's like
52:52
that money will go a lot further with them so that they can
52:55
preserve, you know, what it is that they're what they're that
52:58
they're putting out into the world, you know, versus us here
53:02
in the US. So, you know, those are the
53:04
things that I think we think about when it comes to, to to
53:08
sourcing. I think a lot, a lot of it, you
53:10
know, is or some of it is derived from, you know, what we
53:13
see in the coffee industry where a lot of like the more
53:15
contemporary and modern coffee brands, you know, they always
53:18
talk about being able to kind of like pay not just a fair wage,
53:21
but like beyond the living wage for people within their supply
53:25
chain. And that's something that we
53:26
that we want to do too, right? Like it's a product that a lot
53:29
of us are, have become obsessive over.
53:31
And, you know, if that's the case, like the people that have
53:34
helped make it possible along the way deserve to reap some of
53:37
the, yeah, benefits along the way.
53:39
Yeah, that's that's the way that I think we're we're thinking
53:42
about or looking at it. Yeah.
53:43
This. MO really cuts both ways.
53:45
It's really cool. Yeah, Yeah.
53:48
It's really just not about business or business
53:50
relationship. It's something that's been, you
53:53
know, Matcha has been around for 1000 years and you know,
53:56
hopefully it's going to be around for 1000 more.
53:58
And I think we, we, we owe it to those who, you know, came before
54:02
us and paved the way to, to, you know, compensate and also like
54:07
just share in the, in, in, in, in the current reward or the, OR
54:12
the current state of the market. All right, Kind of the last
54:16
question for this podcast, so, so Rocky, any interesting or
54:20
exciting upcoming events or new collaboration that we can stay
54:24
tuned and be looking forward to? Yeah, we, I guess the one that's
54:29
the more imminent one that's on the horizon is family style food
54:33
festival. So kind of a full circle moment
54:36
for us where Verdi the the multi hyphenic creative that who is my
54:43
friend Paulo, who kind of gave us the name Rocky's Matcha
54:45
Verdi's the his is Paulo's business partner.
54:48
He is the creative director for this year's family style food
54:51
festival in Los Angeles. So that's taking place September
54:55
13th. So we'll be participating in
54:57
family style. And then, you know, as we look
55:00
ahead to 2026, we definitely have, you know, a number of
55:04
things. I think on the horizon.
55:06
There's nothing kind of etched in stone yet, but you know,
55:09
we're taking days or excuse me, we're taking things one day at a
55:12
time. And I think above all else,
55:15
we're trying to solidify our business really like the core
55:19
business, which is, you know, selling tins of macho online and
55:24
you know, all of the other opportunities that have kind of
55:26
come our way we're we're we're seeing and assessing what makes
55:31
the most sense. But yeah, I mean, the, I think
55:33
the goal would be to continue to try and do one event a month.
55:37
And then I think, you know, one of the other things is like
55:40
we've done a lot of events or repeat events in kind of like
55:43
bigger cities that we have a home or, or, or has friends in,
55:47
whether it's LA, New York, Paris, Tokyo even, right.
55:51
One of the things that I think we're challenging ourselves with
55:54
is can we look to bring our brand to some other, you know,
55:58
secondary cities or tertiary cities maybe here in the US
56:02
first? So thinking about some of the
56:05
sort of like food service cafes and restaurants that we work
56:08
with and, you know, maybe partnering up with them to do
56:10
something in their respective city or, you know, what have
56:14
you. So, yeah, a lot of lot of
56:15
exciting things, You know, we have a young and, and, and
56:19
hungry and, you know, super hard working team.
56:23
And you know, we're, we're, we're excited about the future
56:27
And hopefully I think that the industry continues to grow and
56:31
everybody gets to take or everybody gets to reap the
56:35
benefit of the growing industry to some extent or another.
56:38
That's awesome. Very exciting too.
56:41
Exciting times. And gentlemen, thank you so much
56:44
for coming on. We really appreciate your time.
56:46
I'm very happy. I bumped into you at you again
56:49
in Kyoto. It was almost didn't come up and
56:52
say hello, but I was. Like I'm I'm.
56:55
Totally sure. No, it's, it's the second time
56:59
that I think I've run into somebody there at, at Yugen.
57:02
So shout out to Yugen in in, in Kyoto.
57:04
Beautiful tea shop and you know, tea Ware store.
57:09
Yeah, So, yeah. And, and thank you, Ryan, for
57:12
for, for coming to, to the pop up in Paris as well.
57:16
Hopefully, yeah, hopefully we can, we can, you know, do this
57:19
in, in, in person when you guys launch your product in, in, in,
57:24
you know, the coming months or, you know, whenever, whenever it
57:27
is. But wishing, wishing you guys
57:29
the best of luck with, with all of that.
57:31
And you know, I'll be tuning in for, for more exciting episodes.
57:34
Yeah. If there's anything else you
57:36
know you guys need along the way, don't hesitate to to reach
57:39
out. Thanks so much.
57:40
Thank you so much. Really appreciate it of course.
57:44
Thank you so much for listening to our audience and if you
57:47
enjoyed this, please consider sharing it with a friend and
57:49
we'll see you in the future. Thanks.
57:50
See you in the future.