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Transcript

When Fandom Hurts · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff
0:07
Speaker 1: I never told you production of iHeartRadio.
0:18
Speaker 2: And in this episode, I'm just going to preface it's
0:22
Speaker 2: going to be what I would call interesting.
0:25
Speaker 1: It was originally going to.
0:27
Speaker 2: Be an unhappy hour and then it ballooned into something
0:31
Speaker 2: way too long for that. I am drinking wine though,
0:33
Speaker 2: because this makes me really sad, and I've been putting
0:36
Speaker 2: off talking about it.
0:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, we did for a long time, I.
0:41
Speaker 2: Originally. So today we're talking about when a fandom hurts you.
0:47
Speaker 2: And we're not talking about toxic fandom, which can hurt
0:50
Speaker 2: you absolutely. We're not talking about when a property looking
0:54
Speaker 2: at you Star Wars continues to make choices that hurt
0:57
Speaker 2: you storyline wise. We're talking about like when you have
1:02
Speaker 2: to leave because it's just hurting so badly. And this
1:06
Speaker 2: is about Harry Potter and JK Rowling. So with that,
1:09
Speaker 2: there is a content warning for suicidality and transphobia. But
1:15
Speaker 2: this is because it was originally going to be an
1:17
Speaker 2: unhappy hour. I just want to stress, like, this is
1:21
Speaker 2: very much my personal how I've been dealing with this.
1:28
Speaker 2: This is not prescriptive. Everyone is different, and I wanted
1:32
Speaker 2: to talk about it. When we did, Joey came on
1:35
Speaker 2: and did a great episode about kind of the timeline
1:39
Speaker 2: of JK Rowling's transphobia and the damage that it's done.
1:44
Speaker 2: But because that episode was long, we didn't get to
1:48
Speaker 2: talk about the emotional part of it, which I think
1:52
Speaker 2: a lot of people leave out of this conversation. I
1:53
Speaker 2: think there are a couple of reasons for why they
1:55
Speaker 2: do that. But again, yes, this is very much like
1:59
Speaker 2: me talking me coming from a very personal place. So
2:06
Speaker 2: I just want to make that one thousand percent clear
2:09
Speaker 2: before we get into this. This is a very personal thing.
2:12
Speaker 2: It is not our typical like researched I have a
2:15
Speaker 2: lot of research about this just in my brain, but
2:18
Speaker 2: it wasn't like a researched episode.
2:21
Speaker 3: I think I will say with this, for anyone who
2:24
Speaker 3: was a fan and a true fan, like I really
2:27
Speaker 3: liked it, I wasn't emotionally attached to it. So I
2:30
Speaker 3: don't I get it, and I have a very very
2:32
Speaker 3: very set opinion because I wasn't emotionally attached to it.
2:36
Speaker 3: But people who are, and we know there's tons and
2:38
Speaker 3: tons of people who are and were, it's gonna fall
2:42
Speaker 3: into being controversial no matter what, And it's going to
2:46
Speaker 3: be a heavy topic, unfortunately, because that's what happens when
2:49
Speaker 3: you fall in love with something so hard and identify
2:52
Speaker 3: with it. That's the part you identify with it so much,
2:56
Speaker 3: and it feels like you've broken a part of your identity. Yeah,
2:58
Speaker 3: that's kind of cause a crisis. And this is what
3:00
Speaker 3: this is about.
3:02
Speaker 2: It is it is, And I'm mostly talking about it
3:05
Speaker 2: because I have a big group of friends that still
3:10
Speaker 2: enjoys Harry Potter fan fiction. Like they're very clear they
3:15
Speaker 2: don't support her monetarily.
3:18
Speaker 3: And.
3:21
Speaker 2: I was just thinking about, like, but I feel like
3:25
Speaker 2: there's this whole emotional part we're just not talking about,
3:27
Speaker 2: like what you're saying, Samantha, of like when you someone
3:31
Speaker 2: described it to me the other day when I was
3:33
Speaker 2: kind of complaining about it, and she was like, it
3:34
Speaker 2: sounds like he broke up with an abusive X and
3:38
Speaker 2: everyone's still hanging out with that person and you're kind
3:42
Speaker 2: of taking it personally even if that's not what's happening
3:44
Speaker 2: at all. But yeah, it does feel it has a
3:48
Speaker 2: lot of emotions tied into it. A lot of people
3:53
Speaker 2: do identify it with it really hard, and I think
3:57
Speaker 2: that means that we get defensive when we have these
4:00
Speaker 2: conversations that don't have perfect answers, Like there's not a
4:03
Speaker 2: I don't have some solution here I'm going to present.
4:06
Speaker 1: I would say, don't support her financially, but I don't
4:09
Speaker 1: have a solution.
4:11
Speaker 2: And honestly, like, I'm going to Universal in October, and
4:15
Speaker 2: that was one of the first things I thought was
4:17
Speaker 2: what am I gonna do? And I was like researching
4:19
Speaker 2: does she get this money? Like what am I going
4:20
Speaker 2: to do about this Harry Potter part of the Universal Park?
4:25
Speaker 2: And just like if my friends want to go, am
4:29
Speaker 2: I gonna like not go?
4:31
Speaker 1: Like what am I? What am I gonna do?
4:33
Speaker 3: It? Wouldn't it be that you just shouldn't buy things
4:35
Speaker 3: there because it's a part of the Universal pay already
4:38
Speaker 3: and she probably already gets a chunk of that anyway
4:40
Speaker 3: just having it there, but like to go in there
4:44
Speaker 3: and then buy something that would be the profit. So
4:47
Speaker 3: no butter beer for you.
4:50
Speaker 2: I'll make my own damn butter beer, but I probably
4:52
Speaker 2: won't because it makes me so sad now, But that's
4:55
Speaker 2: kind of the point, is I don't this episode. I'm
5:01
Speaker 2: embarrassed by it, but I might cry. I'm probably gonna
5:04
Speaker 2: get emotional. I know it sounds silly to some of you.
5:06
Speaker 2: I'm going to explain why, but like, I don't want
5:11
Speaker 2: to if you can enjoy it without supporting her, I
5:17
Speaker 2: don't want to be the person that comes in and
5:18
Speaker 2: ruins that for you. I'm actually kind of jealous of you.
5:22
Speaker 2: One does not make better than the other because I
5:27
Speaker 2: really don't have any judgment. We're all different mental gymnastics
5:30
Speaker 2: and how we deal with these things. But one thing
5:34
Speaker 2: that I think has really hung me up on this
5:36
Speaker 2: conversation is my dad was kind of controlling about what
5:40
Speaker 2: you could enjoy based on what he enjoyed, And so
5:46
Speaker 2: I think I've gotten really in my head about I
5:47
Speaker 2: don't want to ruin it for other people. But it
5:49
Speaker 2: also means I'm not explaining to other people how much
5:52
Speaker 2: it kind of hurts me, right, So it's just kind
5:55
Speaker 2: of it's built up. So I'm worried if I go
5:59
Speaker 2: and don't buy something there, I'll still just be a
6:02
Speaker 2: miserable person to be around. But also if I leave,
6:06
Speaker 2: then that's gonna make them feel bad.
6:09
Speaker 1: Like I don't know.
6:09
Speaker 2: What the good solution is right right, And speaking of
6:15
Speaker 2: like to be clear, I don't have great coping mechanisms.
6:22
Speaker 2: I do really use media as an escape. I use
6:25
Speaker 2: it to cope with trauma. So when I do lose that,
6:28
Speaker 2: it is hurtful, which I don't think is necessarily unhealthy,
6:32
Speaker 2: but I feel like I lean into things so hard,
6:35
Speaker 2: and again maybe that's not unhealthy either.
6:38
Speaker 1: But that means it hurts a lot.
6:40
Speaker 2: It hurts like a lot, and it's just it's sort
6:43
Speaker 2: of embarrassing because it feels trivial. I know there's so
6:48
Speaker 2: many bigger problems in the world, but it's it is
6:54
Speaker 2: something you use because of those bigger problems, like you
6:58
Speaker 2: use it, and I think it impacts a lot more
7:02
Speaker 2: than people realize, especially people who don't do this, who don't,
7:07
Speaker 2: like you said, maybe aren't attached to it, Like maybe
7:09
Speaker 2: you like it, but you're kind of like eh, So
7:11
Speaker 2: when you lose it, it's sort of like, oh, that's sad,
7:14
Speaker 2: But there are people who do, and I know people
7:21
Speaker 2: still continue to use it to cope even knowing about
7:27
Speaker 2: her but not supporting her. And I totally get that,
7:32
Speaker 2: I really do. But that's that's kind of the what
7:39
Speaker 2: I wanted to talk about, because I did love it
7:42
Speaker 2: so much like if you had told me, like a
7:45
Speaker 2: decade ago, I would have laughed in your face and
7:47
Speaker 2: been offended if you'd said, like, it's not gonna be
7:50
Speaker 2: part of your life anymore. And it might be surprising
7:53
Speaker 2: to hear that, because like, if you've been listening to
7:56
Speaker 2: me on the show, you might think, like, oh, she'd
7:59
Speaker 2: been more likely to give up Harry Potter than Star Wars.
8:01
Speaker 1: That is not true.
8:05
Speaker 2: In fact, one of the reasons I'm so into Star
8:07
Speaker 2: Wars right now is because I have always loved it,
8:12
Speaker 2: but then the pandemic happened and I lost Harry Potter,
8:15
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh God, I gotta find something
8:18
Speaker 2: to fill that space.
8:20
Speaker 1: I hate it. I hate that it hurts so much.
8:22
Speaker 1: It shouldn't it.
8:23
Speaker 3: So all right, so let's go ahead and put a
8:25
Speaker 3: cap on this. Because you feel things this deeply, you
8:28
Speaker 3: should realize and validate that because it was a big
8:31
Speaker 3: part of your life, and to call it dumb or
8:34
Speaker 3: to call it something and try to squash it it
8:36
Speaker 3: makes it worse. You're trying to invalidate yourself when you
8:39
Speaker 3: know it's a lie, so you're lying to yourself and
8:42
Speaker 3: it's just gonna trigger so many things so go ahead
8:45
Speaker 3: and stop because this is lost and no matter what,
8:48
Speaker 3: for you, loss is significant and for you who don't mourn, well,
8:56
Speaker 3: this is going to be a greater impact because you
8:58
Speaker 3: try to ignore it. Which, by the way, sharing with
9:02
Speaker 3: our listeners is a beautiful and vulnerable thing and I
9:06
Speaker 3: hope they understand and you understand how big of a
9:09
Speaker 3: deal this is. So no matter what, this episode with
9:13
Speaker 3: you being heartbroken makes sense and it's okay. And you
9:19
Speaker 3: got to figure out how to deal with that somehow
9:21
Speaker 3: because it's not going away. So with that, and as
9:25
Speaker 3: much as you want to try to replace it, that
9:27
Speaker 3: doesn't work no matter what, because the initial emotions is
9:32
Speaker 3: something that you're going to long for always because you
9:35
Speaker 3: can never replace that. And again with the first love
9:41
Speaker 3: is something new and it's something that is even if
9:44
Speaker 3: you find any love, it's still something different. So it's okay,
9:50
Speaker 3: it's not dumb. Don't say that, because this is very
9:53
Speaker 3: valid and just because not everyone understands it doesn't change
9:56
Speaker 3: anything because there's a lot more people who do. So
10:01
Speaker 3: deep bruh, let's put that to the side. Don't say that,
10:05
Speaker 3: and listeners, you feeling that is okay too?
10:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you.
10:11
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's just it does feel like grieving,
10:14
Speaker 2: and I'm going to talk about that more about why
10:17
Speaker 2: that is. But I think also a part of it
10:20
Speaker 2: is I really did grow.
10:26
Speaker 1: Up with it.
10:27
Speaker 2: I know it sounds kind of trite, but I really did,
10:29
Speaker 2: Like it's a long time to love something.
10:31
Speaker 1: It's a long time.
10:33
Speaker 2: I think I read the first book when I was nine,
10:36
Speaker 2: and it was just a big part of my life.
10:37
Speaker 2: But it was how I met friends, Like some of
10:39
Speaker 2: my closest friendships was made over over this, and I
10:43
Speaker 2: was kind of mocked for it because I feel like
10:48
Speaker 2: Harry Potter eventually achieved a mainstream acceptance, but for a
10:53
Speaker 2: while sort of seen is like you that's sort of silly,
10:56
Speaker 2: like don't talk. That's embarrassing, especially as you got older.
10:59
Speaker 2: And so I'm really defended it, like I stood.
11:01
Speaker 1: Up for it. It was a part of my identity.
11:05
Speaker 2: It was the version of Star Wars now where like
11:08
Speaker 2: if you didn't know what to get me, we would
11:10
Speaker 2: just give me something in that realm and I would
11:12
Speaker 2: be very happy. And I would say that she was
11:15
Speaker 2: a feminist. I would say, like, no, she's out there
11:20
Speaker 2: like doing this good thing. And so it's sort of
11:22
Speaker 2: embarrassing in that sense too, because some people, and I
11:26
Speaker 2: know I know what they mean, but some people would
11:31
Speaker 2: be like, I guess that was right and it was.
11:33
Speaker 1: Bad all along. I'm like, that does not help me.
11:36
Speaker 1: I get what you're doing.
11:39
Speaker 3: But the only people I know who stood that was
11:41
Speaker 3: bad all along was the one who would say, is witchcraft, yeah, yes,
11:46
Speaker 3: which was my parents, So it would hate it more
11:49
Speaker 3: because they were feminists. So because she is, she's a turf.
11:53
Speaker 3: We know that. Yes, they think themselves feminists, but they
11:56
Speaker 3: exclude so.
11:57
Speaker 2: Yes, and we're we're gonna talk about that too, because
12:00
Speaker 2: that's That's one of the things that hurts the most
12:02
Speaker 2: I think is that I did think this about her,
12:07
Speaker 2: and then she just is using that to hurt people
12:10
Speaker 2: and convince people and normalize a thing that is just hate.
12:14
Speaker 2: Some people have also argued I'm actually being sexist and
12:17
Speaker 2: judging her harder.
12:18
Speaker 1: I do not think so.
12:21
Speaker 2: I do get that that happens sometimes, but I think
12:25
Speaker 2: if you're calling yourself a feminist and then you're doing this,
12:28
Speaker 2: then I don't. I don't think that's the same.
12:32
Speaker 3: Right for me. I will say when I was before
12:35
Speaker 3: all the big things happened, I would not watch with
12:38
Speaker 3: Johnny Depp, so all the yeah stuff, I didn't watch
12:41
Speaker 3: it and I still haven't. Yeah, because I'm sorry, Johnny
12:45
Speaker 3: Depp is on my no list, and I know that
12:46
Speaker 3: that's the whole thing, but whatever, I have a whole
12:48
Speaker 3: no list and a lot of men on it.
12:52
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm with you, he's online as well now. But
12:57
Speaker 2: I also think I kind of want to come. I
13:00
Speaker 2: can do a whole episode on this. But I also
13:01
Speaker 2: think there's this thing that's happening, or there's a nuance
13:04
Speaker 2: between being a bad feminist but then just using that
13:07
Speaker 2: as an excuse, like you can acknowledge and say like,
13:11
Speaker 2: I like these things that are problematic, But there's a
13:15
Speaker 2: difference between that and being like, oh, well, no one's
13:18
Speaker 2: perfect when you're just when the not perfect is outright harmful,
13:22
Speaker 2: Like it's a it's a nuance, it's a fine line.
13:27
Speaker 2: But I feel like some people are just like, oh, well,
13:30
Speaker 2: I'm not perfect, so they don't talk about it. They're
13:32
Speaker 2: just like, well, yep, too bad, but we kind of
13:35
Speaker 2: have to talk about it. Some people have also said
13:42
Speaker 2: that they understand why she's cruel and callous because she's
13:46
Speaker 2: dealt with so much from actual terrible people, Okay, but
13:51
Speaker 2: this is happening with like people who love her and
13:53
Speaker 2: are not trying like they are terrible fans. Don't get
13:55
Speaker 2: me wrong, horrible fans, but this is coming from like
13:59
Speaker 2: people who are like I want to love your work, Hey,
14:02
Speaker 2: why are you doing this? Or what do you even
14:04
Speaker 2: think about this? Sometimes like not even what are you doing?
14:08
Speaker 2: And she's just hateful. I'm dismissive. And that's I hate
14:13
Speaker 2: that too, because I would count myself in that of
14:18
Speaker 2: you know, I'd never like attacked JK Rowling online, But
14:26
Speaker 2: I just feel like she's so I'm getting wrapped up
14:29
Speaker 2: in how she's talking about these people, these people being
14:32
Speaker 2: the people she perceives is have targeted her, when I'm
14:35
Speaker 2: really just like, no, you're hurting people, all.
14:38
Speaker 3: Right when you see outright posts, Please don't do this.
14:41
Speaker 3: My heart is breaking. I've leaned on you so hard.
14:44
Speaker 3: This is one of the most like heartbreaking things that
14:46
Speaker 3: you would attack who I am. And her response is
14:49
Speaker 3: callous and cold and being like, well you're not a
14:51
Speaker 3: woman or this, which is her responses to things, and
14:54
Speaker 3: then being invalidating. It's one thing again to be like
14:57
Speaker 3: criticized and to go back towards them, but to invalidate
15:01
Speaker 3: a person's love for you, Wow, that's cold.
15:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like, this is one of the thing
15:07
Speaker 2: that bothers me because I have had disagreements with friends
15:13
Speaker 2: about this, and it almost always boils down to like
15:18
Speaker 2: the monetary part, which I do, I get, But the
15:22
Speaker 2: thing is I supported her monetarily for a long time,
15:25
Speaker 2: like the reason she's able to she keeps tweeting about like, oh,
15:30
Speaker 2: I'll just watch my royalty checks. That's me Like that
15:34
Speaker 2: monetary part. I am a part of it now, even
15:38
Speaker 2: if I don't want to be. And so it's just
15:41
Speaker 2: so infuriating when she does that, where it's like she's
15:45
Speaker 2: being hurtful and cruel and to the people who did
15:49
Speaker 2: provide those residuals that are allowing her to make these
15:53
Speaker 2: very cruel comments.
15:54
Speaker 1: It's messy.
15:55
Speaker 2: Like I understand that it's messy, but that's one of
15:57
Speaker 2: the things that I keep getting hung up on, is that.
16:00
Speaker 1: I did support her quite a bit.
16:03
Speaker 2: And speaking of this is not a gatekeepy fan competition,
16:06
Speaker 2: because I think I feel like a lot of times
16:09
Speaker 2: this devolves into who's the bigger fan, and I don't
16:11
Speaker 2: think that's useful at all. But when I say I
16:14
Speaker 2: was a fan, I was a fan, like I was
16:16
Speaker 2: a huge fan, and now because of how she's behaved,
16:23
Speaker 2: I can't even read fan fiction anymore because it's just
16:27
Speaker 2: it just hurts, like it's the first thing I think.
16:30
Speaker 1: It's the only thing I can think of, is like,
16:32
Speaker 1: but she she.
16:33
Speaker 2: Said this, or she did this, or she really kind
16:36
Speaker 2: of hates a lot of people, and I might be
16:39
Speaker 2: in that circle, like it's a very I can't do it.
16:43
Speaker 1: And again that's a very personal thing. I know people
16:47
Speaker 1: that can, but I can't. And I think one of
16:53
Speaker 1: the arguments I've heard a lot is about fan fiction,
17:00
Speaker 1: and it's in particular I know she's terrible, but these
17:04
Speaker 1: characters mean too much to me, like oh, which I understand,
17:10
Speaker 1: But I hate it when people say that because it
17:12
Speaker 1: makes it implies that I didn't love them as much
17:16
Speaker 1: as you did and that it didn't hurt, or that
17:20
Speaker 1: it was easy, or that it was like a choice
17:23
Speaker 1: I made, because I really didn't.
17:25
Speaker 2: It just hurt too bad. I chose to stop supporting
17:28
Speaker 2: her financially, but I didn't choose to let go or
17:31
Speaker 2: be forced out of it, So it really riles me.
17:35
Speaker 1: Also, people say.
17:36
Speaker 2: That I do get it. I really honestly do. And
17:39
Speaker 2: as we talked about in the episode, but Joey, this
17:45
Speaker 2: situation with JK. Rowland Harry Potter is really unique. She
17:49
Speaker 2: is at the heart of it, essentially, I like a
17:54
Speaker 2: lot of other decentralized entertainment like Star Wars, that's just
17:59
Speaker 2: her thing, and she's the very public face of it.
18:02
Speaker 2: And she's very publicly and very coolly and very mockingly
18:06
Speaker 2: doing these things. And I feel like a lot of
18:09
Speaker 2: people do like to whenever I bring this up, they
18:13
Speaker 2: like to do what about is a like, well, what
18:15
Speaker 2: do you think entertainment you like is not good either?
18:18
Speaker 2: And all this stuff some people have even bought up,
18:21
Speaker 2: like old timey books that are on her like school
18:23
Speaker 2: booklist or like that is not the same look. I
18:26
Speaker 2: don't have, Like I didn't personally see that out. There's
18:31
Speaker 2: a difference between something happening in the eighteen hundreds, which
18:33
Speaker 2: by all means, yes, let us call out how problematic
18:36
Speaker 2: it was, versus someone in our current world like today,
18:43
Speaker 2: maybe doing these things that are just impacting current politics.
18:49
Speaker 2: As we've talked about in the episode of Joey and
18:55
Speaker 2: I don't know, Uh, I literally did have a dream
19:00
Speaker 2: that she had people stone me to death and laughed
19:03
Speaker 2: while I died, like a week ago.
19:06
Speaker 1: And this is someone I used to idolize.
19:10
Speaker 2: I have her autograph, like, and I really did hold
19:15
Speaker 2: onto it for as long as I could, And I
19:18
Speaker 2: admit it because I knew in twenty eighteen is when
19:20
Speaker 2: it was first like something's something's amissed here. And it
19:26
Speaker 2: wasn't until twenty twenty that I was like, oh, I
19:29
Speaker 2: can't do this anymore, which.
19:30
Speaker 1: Is when she really really told down.
19:33
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, she was starting to like some comments and
19:35
Speaker 3: I was like, wait what, Yeah, because she was she
19:38
Speaker 3: was She seemed like part of the problem was her
19:40
Speaker 3: persona was championing, yes, marginalized folks. At one point the
19:45
Speaker 3: whole Dumbledore conversation about him, yeah he's definitely gay to
19:49
Speaker 3: Hermione being played by a black woman, being like, why
19:53
Speaker 3: wouldn't she be I never said she was white, like
19:54
Speaker 3: all these things that made you think that she was
20:00
Speaker 3: you like for the marginalized, which again, most like these,
20:03
Speaker 3: especially when you have a character that's an orphan immediately,
20:05
Speaker 3: like as a person who was literally an orphan living
20:08
Speaker 3: in an orphanage, like that is a call out to
20:10
Speaker 3: love this character because you feel petty for this character,
20:13
Speaker 3: and then you feel some sense of commonality because they're
20:17
Speaker 3: the underdogs, Like that's what you know with kindness and caring,
20:21
Speaker 3: which again, my social worker friends and I laugh because
20:23
Speaker 3: we're like, if that was a real person, he would
20:24
Speaker 3: have been real stub and like he would he would
20:27
Speaker 3: have committed a lot of crimes and or be so
20:30
Speaker 3: introverted and awkward that we would have societal issues like me.
20:34
Speaker 3: But all that's say, these fictionalized characters are built up
20:40
Speaker 3: so that you can feel a commonality, and as we
20:44
Speaker 3: know today, as she did as a child herself. She
20:48
Speaker 3: talked about it being feeling like the underdog the entire time.
20:52
Speaker 3: So that's a call out to those who felt that
20:55
Speaker 3: way in real life and finding a character to love
20:57
Speaker 3: and then finding different characters that could be you. So
21:01
Speaker 3: like having a Harmony character and an Iran character and
21:03
Speaker 3: all the different characters outside characters made you fall in
21:07
Speaker 3: love with that situation and wished you were a part
21:09
Speaker 3: of that world, because she created this world. No matter what. Yes,
21:13
Speaker 3: she is talented, like she's an awful person, but she
21:16
Speaker 3: is talented and we know that, and unfortunately she built
21:19
Speaker 3: up this love for years because I also watched in
21:22
Speaker 3: real time a good friend of mine I've talked about
21:25
Speaker 3: her before, whose life was in shamble, Like I watched
21:29
Speaker 3: her going through so much in college and like watching
21:33
Speaker 3: and having to be careful to care for her because
21:37
Speaker 3: her stability was so unsure. I've seen so many things
21:41
Speaker 3: in her life. I was like, oh my god, is
21:42
Speaker 3: she okay? Leaned so hard into Harry Potter that when
21:46
Speaker 3: people would question it, she would break down as well,
21:49
Speaker 3: like one person like, you're in college, why do you
21:51
Speaker 3: like this? And that was like she was there from
21:53
Speaker 3: the beginning too, but we were again age different. She
21:56
Speaker 3: was late high schools in the college when she was
21:59
Speaker 3: loving it, and people would make fun of her because yes,
22:02
Speaker 3: us as college students, we would just be like, what
22:03
Speaker 3: are you doing, well, this is a kid's book whatever, whatnot.
22:07
Speaker 3: But then seeing her lean so hard into it and
22:10
Speaker 3: finding defensive and defensiveness and making sure you understood how
22:14
Speaker 3: important it is to her. Again, I don't know where
22:17
Speaker 3: she stands to say. We haven't talked in a long time,
22:19
Speaker 3: but I realized, wow, okay, this is this is her reality,
22:25
Speaker 3: that fictional land is her reality, and she needs it
22:30
Speaker 3: to cope today or everything fall apart. Like when we
22:33
Speaker 3: talk about suicidality, I was watching her. Let's just say
22:37
Speaker 3: like that, but when she would lean into it and
22:40
Speaker 3: just watch these movies repeatedly, read these books, repeatedly, look
22:44
Speaker 3: into the world repeatedly because she needed that to survive
22:50
Speaker 3: literally to the next day. So knowing that and then
22:55
Speaker 3: having that world fall apart because the person who created it,
22:58
Speaker 3: who you loved, because they created this world for you
23:00
Speaker 3: and then they said, yes, this is my world that
23:02
Speaker 3: I want you to be a part of. You're welcome,
23:04
Speaker 3: where you can feel safe, and then to rip that
23:06
Speaker 3: from you is heartbreaking. And it's not only heartbreaking once again,
23:11
Speaker 3: it's morning you've lost something.
23:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that was me, Like I think I did
23:20
Speaker 2: what I had to do to survive, as you said,
23:23
Speaker 2: but I did. Like I would sit in my room
23:25
Speaker 2: and I would just hold the book and I would
23:27
Speaker 2: be like, I can I can get through those because
23:31
Speaker 2: I have this and it might not be the healthiest thing,
23:35
Speaker 2: but it was like what I had and.
23:39
Speaker 1: I did.
23:40
Speaker 2: When I would have suicidality, I would think, well, you
23:42
Speaker 2: don't know how Harry Potter ends yet, So that's something
23:45
Speaker 2: to keep fighting for so it was like it was
23:49
Speaker 2: such a big part of my life at my darkest,
23:53
Speaker 2: like darkest times, and now yeah, it does it. It's
23:57
Speaker 2: like alienating me and like making me feel unsafe. I
24:01
Speaker 2: had a friend say, like, every time I see someone
24:05
Speaker 2: in Harry Potter cosplay, I have to wonder, like are
24:07
Speaker 2: they a safe person for me to be around, Like do.
24:11
Speaker 1: I know.
24:13
Speaker 2: How they or are they like they know but they're
24:16
Speaker 2: like able to deal with it?
24:17
Speaker 1: Do they know?
24:18
Speaker 2: And they agree? Like all of those things. And it's
24:21
Speaker 2: also kind of like it's not fun having to explain it.
24:26
Speaker 2: I had to explain to my mom why she should
24:29
Speaker 2: stop giving me Harry Potter stuff. Oh no, it's just
24:32
Speaker 2: like I know that's really silly, but it's not fun
24:35
Speaker 2: to have to be like, well, actually, turns out this
24:37
Speaker 2: thing that I really convinced you was great it's not
24:41
Speaker 2: so great. And now it hurts because it is. It's
24:45
Speaker 2: like you enter this safe space, you go to this
24:48
Speaker 2: sort of escapist fantasy world and you trust it to
24:52
Speaker 2: make you feel to feel safe, and then yeah, it
24:56
Speaker 2: turns around and hurts you instead. Another part of this
25:10
Speaker 2: has been hearing from listeners, which some of you admittedly,
25:15
Speaker 2: like a lot of years passed over these messages that
25:18
Speaker 2: I've been hearing, so you your opinion listeners might have
25:21
Speaker 2: even changed. But some of you have explained how you
25:25
Speaker 2: are able to still enjoy it. The others have said,
25:29
Speaker 2: like how much it just wrecked you? And that started
25:31
Speaker 2: becoming I couldn't stop thinking about that either, So which
25:37
Speaker 2: is not like, please don't feel like you don't you.
25:40
Speaker 1: Didn't ruin anything for me.
25:41
Speaker 2: She did like, don't feel bad about that, but it
25:45
Speaker 2: just became like I couldn't stop thinking about that.
25:49
Speaker 1: And also now.
25:53
Speaker 2: I wonder about conservative parents who did yeah once we're
25:56
Speaker 2: like switchcraft and banned it, and now I'm very happy
25:59
Speaker 2: to air with their kids, and I feel weird about
26:02
Speaker 2: kids reading it. I would never ever ever like, I
26:05
Speaker 2: don't know, come at a kid, but it does. I
26:10
Speaker 2: just I wish if it's had it happened, I would
26:13
Speaker 2: have loved to have shared that, And now it's become
26:16
Speaker 2: kind of a not.
26:19
Speaker 1: No, no, I would not love to sharing it anymore.
26:23
Speaker 3: I think about that also because my nieces have gotten
26:26
Speaker 3: into him recently. I think when I say recently, the
26:29
Speaker 3: last five years, and I found that shocking because again
26:32
Speaker 3: my mom was like, its witchcrafts never will I have it,
26:35
Speaker 3: and my sister even said that too, And then all
26:38
Speaker 3: of a sudden, they are older high schoolers and they're
26:40
Speaker 3: all reading Harry Potter, and I was like, what's what's
26:42
Speaker 3: going on? What's going on? Oh, they let you read
26:45
Speaker 3: Harry Potter, They're okay with they watched Harry Potter with you,
26:49
Speaker 3: like all these things literally never until that point. And
26:53
Speaker 3: then I think about it. I'm like, well, and I'm
26:56
Speaker 3: gonna say this very frankly and not too hurting my feeling,
27:00
Speaker 3: but I'm like, it kind of shows me that a
27:05
Speaker 3: either you are not friends with the people who are
27:09
Speaker 3: in this community who has been truly hurt by this,
27:13
Speaker 3: or be the people we know. There's a lot of
27:16
Speaker 3: trans people who are like, we're fine with it, this
27:18
Speaker 3: is fine, this is nothing to do like that separation
27:21
Speaker 3: and that's for them themselves. And I get that, and
27:24
Speaker 3: it's this whole other level of like being saying that
27:27
Speaker 3: they can separate the art from the artists conversation, and
27:33
Speaker 3: it's kind of like, huh, okay, I can't give you
27:35
Speaker 3: that opinion because you, as a trans person, you have
27:37
Speaker 3: to decide for yourself. I'm not. I have no stake
27:39
Speaker 3: in that matter, and that sense that like everybody gets hurt,
27:43
Speaker 3: but I'm not personally attacked here. So it's kind of
27:46
Speaker 3: one of those things like Okay, I'm gonna leave it be,
27:48
Speaker 3: but do you see it for the people that you
27:51
Speaker 3: don't even know? And it is a question of empathy.
27:56
Speaker 3: And I know that word is really popular right now
28:00
Speaker 3: and everybody's like, I'm an impact, then I do these things.
28:02
Speaker 3: I'm like, I have to question, do you not understand
28:06
Speaker 3: when you see these really hurtful words that you may
28:10
Speaker 3: not be that identifier? But for a person to say
28:13
Speaker 3: that you're invalid, you're not a woman. And then this
28:16
Speaker 3: new rhetoric of like they're stealing from us, I'm like,
28:18
Speaker 3: what are they stealing? I don't understand trying to replace us?
28:21
Speaker 3: That was the thing. I was like, I'm sorry, I'm
28:24
Speaker 3: just physically laughing. I'm like, that is the oddest way
28:29
Speaker 3: of seeing this, Like then every baby girl born is
28:33
Speaker 3: trying to replace you. That's your mentality of like a
28:36
Speaker 3: I don't know anyway. That's a whole other sidetracker. There's
28:39
Speaker 3: so many things that like where do you get this
28:43
Speaker 3: that you might there's that question. It's like, I don't
28:46
Speaker 3: think you do, because you're either you're not looking deep
28:49
Speaker 3: enough or you're being very, very cavalier about this topic.
28:57
Speaker 3: Maybe you're just ignoring it because that's what you have
28:59
Speaker 3: to do. That's what you want to do to keep
29:02
Speaker 3: this safety. And I understand that to a certain extent.
29:05
Speaker 3: But yeah, there's this level like do you true. I
29:07
Speaker 3: don't think it it. I think there's a level of
29:10
Speaker 3: disconnect if you can do that, and I think they
29:14
Speaker 3: would like I say that in a way that sounds harsh,
29:16
Speaker 3: but it's true, like they're like disconnected or separated, as
29:19
Speaker 3: they would say or people would say, And that's that's
29:22
Speaker 3: an interesting way of doing it. I can't do that,
29:24
Speaker 3: Like I can't do that for anything. Yeah, which is
29:27
Speaker 3: why I missed. I don't know a lot of things.
29:30
Speaker 3: But but that's the whole thing, is like, which is
29:32
Speaker 3: why I'm like I can't watch this, I can't see this.
29:34
Speaker 3: I cringe at this, Like those are this level and
29:37
Speaker 3: not that it makes me better, it doesn't. I feel
29:38
Speaker 3: like I missed out on so many things because of
29:41
Speaker 3: that level. But you have to question, like, Okay, what's
29:46
Speaker 3: the motive mm hmmm, and and again, if it's for safety,
29:50
Speaker 3: there's I get that to that extent.
29:53
Speaker 2: I do too, And we're gonna come back to you
29:55
Speaker 2: your point about like it's not it's not being better necessarily.
30:02
Speaker 2: That's not like not what I want you to I'm
30:05
Speaker 2: not trying to be like shaming you for liking something,
30:09
Speaker 2: because I, like I said, as much as it annoys
30:12
Speaker 2: me when it comes up in argument, everything is problematic,
30:16
Speaker 2: and I get that. And everyone sort of has their
30:20
Speaker 2: their own personal lines what they can deal with, what
30:23
Speaker 2: they can disconnect, and I get that too. I guess
30:26
Speaker 2: what I'm trying. I really just want for anyone else
30:28
Speaker 2: who feels this, I just want to let you know
30:31
Speaker 2: like I feel it too, because it does get lost,
30:34
Speaker 2: and I think it does get lost in a really
30:38
Speaker 2: like black or white monetary situation when we're not talking
30:43
Speaker 2: about like kind of that cultural impact, that cultural hurt,
30:47
Speaker 2: that cultural loss of losing something that made you feel
30:51
Speaker 2: really safe or that just was a great coping mechanism
30:54
Speaker 2: for you, or like something you have so many associated
30:57
Speaker 2: memories with. And I didn't want to put in here
31:00
Speaker 2: because this comes up a lot. This is really silly.
31:04
Speaker 2: People tease me all the time because I won't eat
31:06
Speaker 2: Chick fil A because of homophobia, and they're always kind
31:11
Speaker 2: of joking like, oh, she has a code, but I
31:12
Speaker 2: like their chicken nuggets too much. And I always say
31:14
Speaker 2: it was like really easy for me to give up
31:16
Speaker 2: Chick fil A because I actually wasn't a big fan anyway.
31:18
Speaker 2: So it's sort of like, Okay, well I can give
31:20
Speaker 2: that up. And I consume products that are terrible all
31:23
Speaker 2: the time. I use things, honestly, I use things I
31:26
Speaker 2: wish I didn't have to use, but they're kind of
31:28
Speaker 2: like the only game in town. But there's a difference
31:32
Speaker 2: between like a company that I really don't care about,
31:35
Speaker 2: I really don't care, and like media that you love
31:38
Speaker 2: that got you through like this really difficult time. And
31:43
Speaker 2: so I just I guess I just want to say
31:45
Speaker 2: again like it wasn't an easy thing, and yeah.
31:52
Speaker 1: It has been like grieving.
31:56
Speaker 2: As I was saying earlier, I have gotten really in
31:59
Speaker 2: my head about I don't want to bring down people's
32:01
Speaker 2: joy because they brought me so much joy. But then
32:04
Speaker 2: at the same time, I'm not acknowledging that it's like
32:06
Speaker 2: bringing me down, and they talk about it, and so
32:10
Speaker 2: I kind of shut down. I close off when it
32:13
Speaker 2: comes up, which is not like the healthiest thing.
32:16
Speaker 1: I think.
32:17
Speaker 2: I really haven't allowed myself to say any of this
32:20
Speaker 2: out loud, so I'm hoping maybe this is actually going
32:23
Speaker 2: to be a healing kind of a healing moment. But
32:29
Speaker 2: also I do want to acknowledge this. A lot of
32:33
Speaker 2: this has played out on Twitter, and I have most
32:37
Speaker 2: of my friends don't use Twitter, haven't ever like and
32:40
Speaker 2: so I mean there's an argument to be made about
32:42
Speaker 2: like willful ignorance, sure, but I also think like they
32:45
Speaker 2: might not know the extent, and I always feel weird.
32:50
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, did you know about this?
32:53
Speaker 2: Like if I want to give all the examples because
32:56
Speaker 2: there's a weird spot you're.
32:57
Speaker 1: In, then when if they're like yes, then you feel
33:01
Speaker 1: that's not a great feeling. But if they're like no,
33:04
Speaker 1: it's just a risk. It's a roll of the dice.
33:08
Speaker 2: But I will acknowlge, especially because I've like, really I
33:11
Speaker 2: have gotten off most of social media, like I barely
33:14
Speaker 2: use it now. And sometimes you'll say something, I'm like, no,
33:16
Speaker 2: I had not heard anything about that, So I understand.
33:19
Speaker 2: I do get that that is a thing. I also
33:22
Speaker 2: get that it's not fun to talk about. And yes,
33:26
Speaker 2: I do not want people to like compliment me or
33:29
Speaker 2: say like, oh, yes, I get it, you're stronger and
33:31
Speaker 2: better than I am.
33:33
Speaker 1: I don't want that. That's not true, that is not
33:36
Speaker 1: what it is.
33:38
Speaker 2: I just yeah, I just want to share it because
33:41
Speaker 2: if anyone else feels it, but also to people who
33:43
Speaker 2: are still able to enjoy it, especially in ways that
33:47
Speaker 2: don't make her money. I don't blame you, and I
33:49
Speaker 2: really am happy for you. It's hard for me to
33:51
Speaker 2: show it, I can admit, but I am like I
33:54
Speaker 2: miss it, and sometimes I think like maybe one day
33:57
Speaker 2: I could too, but I don't think so, like she
33:59
Speaker 2: would like really really change her tune and make amends
34:05
Speaker 2: and it would still take a long time.
34:08
Speaker 1: But I you know, who knows. I'm not trying to
34:12
Speaker 1: make anyone feel guilty. I don't.
34:14
Speaker 2: Honestly, it's a decent situation, Like it just sucks for everybody.
34:19
Speaker 2: It's not something I'm looking at guilty people about.
34:22
Speaker 1: But I guess, like I don't like that.
34:26
Speaker 2: A lot of the arguments I'm seeing, which there are
34:28
Speaker 2: a lot of arguments about it, does revolve around like
34:32
Speaker 2: who is who's a bigger fan and it being like well,
34:39
Speaker 2: you gave up on it completely and I didn't, or well,
34:42
Speaker 2: I gave it up and you didn't. I don't think
34:46
Speaker 2: that's the conversation we should be having, honestly, because it
34:51
Speaker 2: just it just hurts. It just hurts, and I feel
34:57
Speaker 2: like I keep saying giving up, but really it's forced out,
35:00
Speaker 2: like it's it does feel like it's it's like you're
35:05
Speaker 2: eving a loss. And because I loved it so much,
35:09
Speaker 2: like I opened myself up to it hurting me this badly.
35:13
Speaker 2: I get that for some of you, you're listening to
35:15
Speaker 2: this and you're like, what are you? Why is this
35:18
Speaker 2: such a big thing? But it is that, Like I
35:23
Speaker 2: understand that for some people it's it doesn't have these
35:26
Speaker 2: emotional steaks. But I think, like this argument that I'm seeing,
35:32
Speaker 2: I think we should all remember like we're different when
35:34
Speaker 2: it comes to how we deal with something like this,
35:37
Speaker 2: which again is pretty unique, and maybe neither is stronger
35:42
Speaker 2: or better, and that's the point. Maybe maybe it shouldn't
35:48
Speaker 2: be a fan competition about who loves something more, because
35:53
Speaker 2: that's really hard to judge, and I also don't think
35:55
Speaker 2: that's healthy. But I do think the fact that I
35:57
Speaker 2: loved it that much and left should say something about
36:02
Speaker 2: how bad she is, right.
36:05
Speaker 3: I think our listeners are probably aware, but that's the
36:08
Speaker 3: biggest thing, is to make sure you that everyone understands
36:12
Speaker 3: what's at stake necessarily, and when you see rhetoric and
36:17
Speaker 3: laws being changed based on things that people write, which
36:22
Speaker 3: literal laws are being changed and or introduced in the
36:25
Speaker 3: UK based on what JK. Rowling has written and has
36:29
Speaker 3: been presented in the United States as well as to
36:32
Speaker 3: why trans people should not exist. Essentially, think that's what
36:36
Speaker 3: they're saying, and we are seeing a widespread of anti trans,
36:42
Speaker 3: anti lgbtquia plus laws happening all over the world, like
36:48
Speaker 3: in the US and the UK, we see it in
36:51
Speaker 3: a whole different way, and it's it feels like it's
36:54
Speaker 3: they've been waiting and then having an influencer like her
36:59
Speaker 3: who had money to back it up as well, because
37:01
Speaker 3: we also know she's donated to several of these causes,
37:04
Speaker 3: so instead of actually like not donating to anything or
37:07
Speaker 3: donating to something that's actually good, she donates to anti things.
37:11
Speaker 3: So that's the conversation that we're having, as well as
37:13
Speaker 3: the fact that both the publishers, the movie executives and
37:19
Speaker 3: herself put her face as the uh spokesperson for Harry Potter,
37:23
Speaker 3: and that's that's part of that conversation too. It's not
37:26
Speaker 3: necessarily Daniel Radcliffe, it's literally her.
37:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's one of the things I think about
37:34
Speaker 2: a lot is once the Max Show the reboot got greenlit,
37:40
Speaker 2: she said something like, you can cry your tears and
37:43
Speaker 2: have your boycott and I'll just be drinking champagne and
37:46
Speaker 2: counting my money. And so I think like, even if
37:50
Speaker 2: as long as companies don't feel that they have to
37:53
Speaker 2: cut her out, she's going to keep getting these deals
37:57
Speaker 2: and she's going to keep making that money, whether you
37:59
Speaker 2: are like support her financially or not.
38:01
Speaker 3: Literally, she said for the game, the game company says
38:04
Speaker 3: she's not a part of it. She's not a part
38:05
Speaker 3: of it, but in the you know that she's making
38:08
Speaker 3: millions of dollars off of it because she's a smart businesswoman.
38:12
Speaker 3: Once again, we're not taking that away from her. And
38:15
Speaker 3: she made sure to get that copyright deal for everything.
38:19
Speaker 3: So there you go.
38:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I feel like that's she A lot
38:25
Speaker 2: of times she kind of implies she's probably outright said it,
38:29
Speaker 2: but I can't.
38:29
Speaker 1: I don't know for sure, but.
38:31
Speaker 2: She implies like, as long as she's still culturally relevant,
38:35
Speaker 2: then what she understands is people either agree with her
38:38
Speaker 2: or don't care enough to do anything about it, right,
38:41
Speaker 2: and that I think I skipped over this bullet point.
38:44
Speaker 2: But one of the biggest things about her that comes
38:47
Speaker 2: up again when I'm having these disagreements with friends is like,
38:51
Speaker 2: not only is she like a pseudo feminist, not a
38:54
Speaker 2: feminist at all, but like presents herself in that way
38:56
Speaker 2: and is therefore legitimized in that way. A lot of
39:01
Speaker 2: people have said, like, oh, she was cool with like,
39:04
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of queer stuff, just not that transpart,
39:07
Speaker 2: which they think is bad. But I'm like, well, then
39:09
Speaker 2: I think that that's not she wasn't cool with any
39:11
Speaker 2: of that. It. Like, I'm kind of like the same
39:13
Speaker 2: way we say an intersectional feminist not a feminist, You're
39:16
Speaker 2: not a feminist if you're a turf. I think it's
39:19
Speaker 2: kind of the same with like queer stuff, Like, well
39:23
Speaker 2: then she's not cool with it at all.
39:25
Speaker 3: Right, Again, like there's people have nitpicked her for everything.
39:30
Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, I feel like there's some validity. So
39:34
Speaker 3: when you start looking at like it's kind of a whole,
39:37
Speaker 3: like and this is what I was always told by
39:41
Speaker 3: a person from England, So don't yell at me that
39:44
Speaker 3: the whole like black white is not an issue but ethnicity.
39:48
Speaker 3: So when it comes to like Pakistani people and such like,
39:52
Speaker 3: that's a big deal. And it's kind of been implied
39:55
Speaker 3: to be like yeah, no, yeah, even though they may
39:57
Speaker 3: be cool with like having international couples with black and
40:01
Speaker 3: white people, outside of that, there's other ethnicities that that
40:05
Speaker 3: becomes a whole conversation. And there's been a whole rhetoric
40:08
Speaker 3: in TikTok in which slurs for Asian people is okay,
40:12
Speaker 3: still there and you're like, wait what And so there's
40:16
Speaker 3: a back and forth of like people like, no, it's
40:17
Speaker 3: not true, but they literally call Chinese food the derogatory
40:22
Speaker 3: word for Asian people. And I was like wait what
40:25
Speaker 3: wait what like and people like no, no, but it's
40:27
Speaker 3: it's just it's just that way. It's not a big deal,
40:29
Speaker 3: like but it is, but no, but it is, like
40:33
Speaker 3: I don't know what's happening, but it is, but that level,
40:35
Speaker 3: like just because it's not the same as in other
40:40
Speaker 3: places doesn't mean it doesn't exist there Again, with her like, oh, yeah,
40:44
Speaker 3: she's cool with this specific type of marginalized people. But
40:47
Speaker 3: outside of that, not cool right, doesn't mean she's.
40:50
Speaker 1: Cool, right, Yes, I agree, yes so much. Yes, and
40:57
Speaker 1: I know like.
41:01
Speaker 3: That. Sorry, Ukpole, We'll let us know.
41:07
Speaker 2: Kindly please, And I I just want to say here
41:21
Speaker 2: because I I hope.
41:23
Speaker 1: It's clear.
41:26
Speaker 2: That Samantha knows I when I love something, I love something.
41:31
Speaker 1: Sure, this is not this is not a conversation. I
41:36
Speaker 1: was dreading it.
41:37
Speaker 2: I've been putting it off like I didn't want to
41:39
Speaker 2: have it. I really am not finding any joy in
41:45
Speaker 2: doing this, Like I'm not like gleeful that oh like
41:51
Speaker 2: you you all who are still you know in this world.
41:55
Speaker 2: I am like finding glee that I am better than
41:58
Speaker 2: you when I moved on. I'm not like this. This
42:00
Speaker 2: is like a really hurt I hope it's clearing my voice.
42:03
Speaker 1: Like it was.
42:05
Speaker 2: It's not something I'm trying to make you feel bad about.
42:14
Speaker 3: But it is in our show. And as you know,
42:17
Speaker 3: we have to talk about the hard stuff, the things
42:19
Speaker 3: that make you uncomfortable and the things that you have
42:21
Speaker 3: to have this comment, Like we could talk about the
42:24
Speaker 3: Asian model minority myth, which is popping back up right
42:26
Speaker 3: now in the US, which we will. I've also been
42:29
Speaker 3: putting that off because I get very angry and upset
42:32
Speaker 3: about it because this level of supremacy, supremacy ideal, which
42:37
Speaker 3: is exactly what's happening with JK.
42:38
Speaker 1: Rowling.
42:39
Speaker 3: She feels this level of supremacy over a group of
42:42
Speaker 3: martialized people and wants to maintain that power because for
42:45
Speaker 3: some reason it threatens her, which is not true. Again,
42:49
Speaker 3: that's what they are saying. They sell that they feel
42:51
Speaker 3: threatened at this imaginary idea of someone else being who
42:57
Speaker 3: they are. Like again, I'm still very confused by this
43:00
Speaker 3: whole we're being replaced.
43:01
Speaker 1: It's like, what are you?
43:03
Speaker 3: Are you no longer a woman?
43:04
Speaker 1: Like?
43:04
Speaker 3: Did you what's happening?
43:06
Speaker 1: Why are you?
43:07
Speaker 3: Congratulations? If you're not, that's how you feel because you
43:09
Speaker 3: feel different, go ahead, But I don't think anybody's forcing
43:13
Speaker 3: you to be anything else. So I'm not really sure
43:15
Speaker 3: how you're being replaced. But okay, once again, but yeah,
43:19
Speaker 3: this is the whole conversation that we have to look
43:21
Speaker 3: to it. It's not a pretty pristine world and these
43:25
Speaker 3: minute what we would say, minute details or what you
43:29
Speaker 3: would think is like a smaller conversation is a big
43:32
Speaker 3: conversation because as we talked about in intersectionality, is that
43:36
Speaker 3: if one group of people are oppressed or marginalized, it
43:41
Speaker 3: means everyone is going to be affected by this conversation.
43:45
Speaker 3: And when we look at the fact that if one
43:49
Speaker 3: percent of people do not have the freedom and the rights,
43:52
Speaker 3: then no one is safe and no one like it's
43:55
Speaker 3: not true freedom. Well, again, we've talked about that before.
43:57
Speaker 3: It's not true equality in any of that. And that's
44:00
Speaker 3: the intersectionality of it is looking at the basis of
44:03
Speaker 3: every group is affected differently, and some people are affected more,
44:06
Speaker 3: and we have to talk about why that breakdown is happening,
44:10
Speaker 3: even if it makes it uncomfortable because we may not
44:12
Speaker 3: be a part of that group, but we see it
44:15
Speaker 3: and we know that that is damaging for everyone. Like
44:18
Speaker 3: I hate to be that narcissistic because it's not about us,
44:21
Speaker 3: but it can't like that's the truth of it all.
44:24
Speaker 3: Mm hmm, Like yeah, until that is broken down, it's
44:28
Speaker 3: not true. This idea of equality is not true.
44:32
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah. And I think that these these conversations
44:40
Speaker 1: are also tough because you have to acknowledge what you
44:44
Speaker 1: were previously allowing to be okay.
44:48
Speaker 2: And I think people including me, like everybody, I think
44:50
Speaker 2: it's a natural response to feel defensive when you get
44:54
Speaker 2: those questions and to sort of try to point out, like, well,
45:02
Speaker 2: what way are you not a hypocrite? We're all hypocrites.
45:07
Speaker 3: The big Well, it comes down to what are you upholding?
45:10
Speaker 3: Are you holding oppression, supremacy and overall power or are
45:17
Speaker 3: you looking at true quality? And that's and it does
45:21
Speaker 3: affect everything, know that matter how trivial you think it is.
45:26
Speaker 3: To pretend like it doesn't is just as naive. I'm
45:30
Speaker 3: being a lot more made. I'm a little again, I'm more.
45:34
Speaker 3: I absolutely understand. I am definitely disconnected. I have an
45:37
Speaker 3: attachment isstry in general, so I don't get attached to
45:39
Speaker 3: things too harshly because.
45:41
Speaker 1: I'm gonna lose at any point.
45:43
Speaker 3: That's my drama. But it's fine. I'm fine, Everything's fine.
45:49
Speaker 3: But yeah, but that's I mean, that's the reality is
45:51
Speaker 3: when we have these conversations and then when you again, yes,
45:57
Speaker 3: you do your thing, you have to do what's safely,
46:00
Speaker 3: and then you have to do it in your own
46:01
Speaker 3: timing whatever that might be. But we're not we can't
46:05
Speaker 3: pretend that it's not something that can affect something like
46:11
Speaker 3: it affects things. There is a cause and effect to everything,
46:17
Speaker 3: and you have to weigh that you.
46:18
Speaker 1: Do you do.
46:20
Speaker 2: And I also just quick final note, I want to say,
46:26
Speaker 2: sometimes when we do this podcast, I feel really terrible
46:29
Speaker 2: because perhaps I'm essentially having an argument that I haven't
46:35
Speaker 2: had with a real person, but it's like, come up,
46:39
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, and they're not here to
46:41
Speaker 2: present their side. And to that end, I want to
46:45
Speaker 2: say that I'm also I'm really bad at letting things go.
46:48
Speaker 2: I'm really I want to be better at having a disagreement.
46:52
Speaker 2: I want to be better about like not shutting down
46:55
Speaker 2: and making people feel like they can't share something they
46:58
Speaker 2: love with me. This is a complicated thing because it
47:02
Speaker 2: does hurt. But I also think because I haven't allowed
47:04
Speaker 2: myself to grief yet, that maybe I will get better.
47:09
Speaker 2: That's also like a toxic I know that about myself.
47:12
Speaker 2: And I also, I mean, you all know, I get
47:15
Speaker 2: how fun it is to talk about your fan fiction,
47:18
Speaker 2: and so sometimes it feels like I am being very
47:21
Speaker 2: selfish because I'm like, I don't want to hear about
47:23
Speaker 2: your Hair Potter fan fiction because it's just slipsetting, and
47:26
Speaker 2: that means I've stopped talking about my fan fiction pretty
47:29
Speaker 2: largely too. But it's like, it's just like this protective
47:33
Speaker 2: mechanism kicks in and is like, no, you can't, you
47:36
Speaker 2: cannot deal with this, And I just I want to
47:42
Speaker 2: work on that. I want to find a better way
47:44
Speaker 2: to recognize my negive emotions and deal with them. But
47:49
Speaker 2: I also just want to say that it's something I
47:51
Speaker 2: should do. But really, I also think I'm being too
47:58
Speaker 2: forgiving of jk Rowling because he's kind of the one
48:00
Speaker 2: that's bringing you down, not me. Yeah, So thank you
48:08
Speaker 2: so much, Samantha. You've been very supportive in this thing
48:11
Speaker 2: I was putting off for so long, And to any
48:16
Speaker 2: listeners who feel the same, I am here.
48:19
Speaker 1: I am with you.
48:22
Speaker 2: You can email us at Stephid mom Stuff at iHeartMedia
48:25
Speaker 2: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom
48:27
Speaker 2: Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at Stephan Never
48:31
Speaker 2: Told You. We also have a tea public store with merchandise,
48:34
Speaker 2: or we have a book that you can pre order
48:36
Speaker 2: at Stuff. You should read Books dot com audio form
48:38
Speaker 2: or physical form. Thanks as always to our super producer,
48:41
Speaker 2: Christina our executive producer Maya and our contributor Joey.
48:44
Speaker 1: Thank you and thanks to you for listening. Stephan never
48:47
Speaker 1: told you the projection of My Heart Radio.
48:48
Speaker 2: For more podcast from My Heart Radio, you can check
48:50
Speaker 2: out the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
48:52
Speaker 2: listen to your favorite shows. Oh no,