Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Orann Coyle – financial planning client acquisition via Instagram!

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Orann Coyle – financial planning client acquisition via Instagram! · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest on the Financial Planner Life podcast is Orin Coyle from St.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Orin started his career as an administrator, moved into power planning, and is now a financial planner.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: He found it tough.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: He started as a financial planner during COVID.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: So he was forced to adapt to different ways to generate clients.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: He turned to Instagram, where he now has 16,500 followers and is converting upwards of 300 client inquiries.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I probe him on how he uses social media and the technology to get them to client meetings.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about the support that he has had from St.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: James's place in helping him achieve the levels of business and advice that he is giving his clients.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about what it's like to be a younger financial planner in the world and what opportunities are available.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's based over in Northern Ireland.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's a very small client base, and we talk about how social media has helped him get in front of them to build personal brand, to build trust and confidence, and help him convert limited company directors.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is a fantastic episode for anybody interested in social media, interested in social marketing when it comes to financial planning, and certainly inspiring to the next generation of financial planners just like you.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So today I want to find out if you're smashing it on social media, does that mean you're smashing it as a financial planner?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: But first off, can you tell us a little bit about why you chose the profession financial planning?
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, thank you very much for having me.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the reason I chose financial planning was originally, and this is a genuine story, I thought I wanted to be in banking or accountancy, maybe.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, when I had done my accountancy degree for my undergraduate degree in Liverpool, I decided that accountancy was just a little too mundane, if you want to call it that for me.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so the next option after that was something else to do with financial services, which led on from a master's degree that I done in investment management.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it sort of naturally made me fall into financial planning.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And funnily enough, the story of how I got into financial planning was actually through a connection from somebody I knew who connected me with somebody who owned our firm and put us together, had a cup of tea, and that was where my story began in financial planning and the financial services industry.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: With the accountancy degree, though, is there anything from that that actually has helped you in your financial planning career at all?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Massively.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Massively.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, as an accountancy undergraduate, you have to learn how to read accounts, do ratios, and learn about businesses and how they work.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, obviously being a younger guy, when I speak to people who own businesses, I have already got a lot of experience in how to read their accounts and understand how their business is performing financially.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so it gives me a level of um a more in-depth understanding of how things work and in turn helps me give them better advice and better guidance, whether they are an older business or a or a younger business than than we are.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it definitely, definitely helped.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it definitely helped.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people that are sitting in accountant doing accountancy degrees.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, when you look at the route into accountancy, it is very structured.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: It does offer kind of a clear career framework, and financial planning has historically not had that.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's starting to change.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're starting to see those career pathways.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: But people sitting in those accountancy roles might now be thinking, well, what's this financial planning then?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: What's that all about?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, the qualification is really, really useful because you're going to be sitting down with business owners and being able to dissect their business and understand actually how it works, unearths opportunities to be able to provide solid financial planning, right?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think whenever I was doing my undergraduate degree, financial planning was not on my radar at all.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I feel like financial planning is the forgotten profession when it comes to you know the financial profession.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: You've got accountancy and then you've got the other standard STEM routes like being a solicitor, being an accountant, you know, getting into those STEM subjects.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: But financial planning is sort of in some way separated from that when it really shouldn't be.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: It should be part of the main conversation in my eyes.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously things are changing now with things like the St.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: James's Plus Academy.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And basically what needs to happen there is they're just not informing young people about financial services enough to give them that food for thought to get into the industry when they're younger.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: It start seem to kind of bring in a financial planning qualification, link it in with degrees in universities.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a great start, isn't it?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder if that was there at that time, you might have had a look at it at least.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the starting point, isn't it?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: At least have a look, see what the qualification is all about and where it leads you in your career and gives somebody that different route and that different option into a new job role, not just accountancy or just a solicitor, those main things that people go to university and say, I'll be one of those, I'll pick that one, please.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I suppose that depends on what where what your background is and where you come from.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: I come from a grammar school back home in Northern Ireland that was very well set on the STEM subjects.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously it depends on who has given you direction and guidance as a careers counsellor, for example.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: If they don't pull that out of their arsenal and tell you about it, then you're never going to know about it.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I was younger, no, there was no there was no mention of it.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: I knew some people who were financial advisors, but I didn't have a great deal of understanding about that what that profession entailed.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yes, if they had told me about that when I was younger, I probably would have looked into it.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because even the differences between financial planning and wealth management, in some ways they overlap a lot, but you wouldn't be able to tell that unless you have a bit of knowledge.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so, no, at the unfortunately, I wasn't really exposed to it when I was younger, and I wish it was.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I went more of a scenic route to getting into the financial services profession, whereas some people will now go directly through a through through um an industry-related qualification to go straight into financial planning, but I'm here now, and whatever happened happened for a reason, and vouch with it was for the best.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Good man.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not what you know as well as who you know.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you managed to really like a lot of people fall into the profession because somebody introduced you to somebody within the financial planning profession.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Just tell us about that then.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, how did you get into the financial planning profession?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: What was your first job role?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Where did you go?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what was the route for you to actually becoming a financial planner face to face?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, funnily enough, I had finished an accountancy degree, as I talked about in England, and then I completed a master's degree in investment management at Queen's University in Belfast, and I started working for a local university in my hometown, the University of Ulster.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I had met with a few recruitment agents and told them this is my qualifications, this is my background, this is what I would like to do.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's not a great job market for it where I'm from.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: And but I said, if something comes up, please come to me.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the director of our firm was good friends with one of the guys who ran the recruitment agency, and they ended up connecting over it, and that's how I ended up having that conversation originally.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I did fall into it, but I did don't want to say manifested it, but I went looking for that type of work, and I suppose there was an element of time and good luck, to be honest, Sam.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then the first role that I had with that firm was essentially as a secretary, if you want to call it that.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was the person in the office who answered the phone and who done the medial tasks when they needed done and filled in the gaps, if you want to call it that.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: And and obviously, as time went on, it progressed into other things.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you want me to explain that to you?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, please go into DTM.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: The first the first year was probably getting to know the ropes, obviously, what's St.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place and how the St.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place infrastructure works and the culture of St.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was a gap filler at the time, answering phones and and trying to be a sponge, to be honest, absorb as much as I could.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'd done a lot of the SJP house as it's known now, but it was SJP development or internal development back then.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Done a lot of those accreditations, and that sort of spurred me on.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'd done the diploma and savings and investments, the diploma and retirement planning, even though I wasn't even doing anything remotely related to those things in my role.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it just was a source of knowledge, I suppose, that I tried to make benefit of.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that naturally led into maybe I could try and write a case for an ISA investment or you know, a straightforward pension case or whatever.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: But obviously that involved me having to ask.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: I had to ask for that.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't can you do this?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was I would like to try and do this.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously there was a great deal of trial and error.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and thank God the the firm that I was with were patient with me.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they give me time and they give me a chance to actually learn that thing, um, especially when it comes to power planning.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, power planning itself, you can go through the diploma route and get diploma qualified as you're training to be a power planner, or like a lot of people in the profession, you sort of find yourself becoming a power planner when sometimes you don't even know it.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which in some cases is far the better because there's less pressure, you've got more time and space to actually learn.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: But that probably came after about a year.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of doing some small, straightforward cases again in the nature of filling the gaps in for our partner who was extremely busy at the time.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I tried to take off some of the pressure whilst also seeing it as an opportunity for me to learn.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it worked out well for us both, and that obviously progressed into some more complex things, and then the conversation came along of maybe you should start to pursue pursue the diploma exams.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And there was no conversation at that point really of getting appointed with St.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: James's Plus or getting a license to give advice, it was let's see where it goes, do your exams and and see what happens.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: And funnily enough, albeit as I said, I took the scenic route to becoming a financial planner.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: My degrees gave me some exemptions for some of the CII exams, and that's who I went through, the CIA.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I didn't have to do all the diploma exams, R01 through R06, to get the the diploma.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: I only had to do a certain amount of them because my past study had given me exemptions from um some of the some of the exams with less credits.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: So in some ways I landed on my feet, and there's a recurrent theme here of me sort of getting lucky.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um obviously I worked hard for it, but I done those exams in a period of maybe six months.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um back-to-back, some with some breaks, which wasn't easy.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: But whenever you're really motivated to get somewhere and you really want to go for it, and I had a bite appetite at the time, because I was trying to make a career in my hometown, which is relatively small, so I says whatever you're willing to let me do, I will try my best.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I smashed out the exams, got the diploma in April of 20 was either 20 2019 maybe.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the conversation came around then of what is the potential for me to give advice, and that led to me getting appointed to give to give advice in the 19th of January 2020, I think that was, which is the year COVID started.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Which is the year COVID started.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what a time to become a financial planner.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: What a time, and I do remember at the time um my partner who obviously had given uh my partner in SGP obviously who had given me a lot of mentorship, he said if you can survive during a time like this, then you can survive anything because there was so many variables and there was so many things changing in the industry, not just in terms of St.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place or in terms of other networks, in terms of the actual way things were being done and how the markets were performing.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so from when you look at the previous market performance between the financial crash and 2020, it was like that, all very positive and very struck excuse me, very strong.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: But whenever COVID happened, the markets fell off a cliff, and so I was having to try and cut my teeth as a financial advisor with not a great deal of experience to be genuinely honest with you, but also swum against the tide of a fallen market.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a recipe for disaster, to be honest, and I definitely jumped into the deep end.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: But hey, listen, I think in respect of where I found you is online, it's on social media.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I could imagine COVID played a big part in you not being able to see people on a face-to-face basis, having to look at other ways to build client relationships to market yourself.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Did it influence you using social media as a tool to generate new clients?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Massively.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Digital marketing?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously there's an element of cost versus value and input versus output when it comes to social marketing and digital marketing.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I did recognise it at the time as something that could be a massive game changer, not just for me, but for everyone.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because considering my circumstance, I don't live in a city with millions of people in it like London or like Manchester or Birmingham.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: I live in a very small town with maybe a hundred thousand people or 150,000 people, and so I thought, how can I be as uh resourceful and gritty as I can and reach as many people with as little cost and social media ticked all the boxes?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought then, well, how do we make it to make it work and take advantage of it?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um Vincent, let me cut in here then.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously spat 100,000 people within that city.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: Did you actually see that as a micro niche?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Did you sort of look around you and think how many financial planners are actually using social media within such a small um district, city, 100,000 people?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Did you did you see that?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Look around, do your due diligence and your market research and thought, hang on here, if I do this right, there's a huge opportunity.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's probably less than five financial planning firms in the Northwest that I was aware of in terms of size and value and substance.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's smaller IFAs and one-man bands and things like that.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I did have a look, um, and nobody, I suppose, without sort of trying to get under anyone's skin, I think that the the financial planning profession has been the same for so long that people were just doing the way things that they were doing things the way that they always had been done.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So there's nothing really new being done.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, technology came into play and there was new technology coming in the industry, but I don't think anybody really approached it from a digital marketing point of view.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I I did see that gap and I decided, well, I've got nothing to lose.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably the worst time for me to get appointed to give advice because of what's happening in the world.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: So let's throw some stuff at the wall and see what sticks and go from there.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: So which platform did you decide to focus on?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what yeah, what platform?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: How did you make your choice and what did you do?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Why did you end up deciding on the platform that you did?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: I th honestly, my wife had been doing stuff online for a long period of time before that, and she always used Instagram.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I always found that Instagram was like a nice connect between the casual side of something like um Facebook, but not as professional as something like LinkedIn.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it was where real people would genuinely just be active socially online.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I decided that I would start there.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: So a level of professionalism and how I present myself online, but also the ability for the platform to not be just as rigid as something like LinkedIn.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I still to this day don't really use LinkedIn at all.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's still all the same platform, but from a digital marketing point of view, I think LinkedIn is going to have to happen as a way for me to expand and adapt to what's happening as well.
• 16:06
  unknown: No.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us about Instagram then, because I don't I've got an Instagram page on now.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: I tend to just put what I put out on.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: So my platform would be LinkedIn.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: I choose LinkedIn.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I make most of my connections.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: I see it as networking on steroids, as I always use it, use it, use that analogy.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think it has had that stiff kind of professional image, and people are starting to relax a little bit now and calm down.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And people are starting to open up and show their own personal brands, who they are, to connect with relevant people.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Instagram I found to be too much that way for me.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of just avoided it.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: I found it a bit too much.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how did you go about building a style and an approach from financial planning, which can often be considered to be, I don't know, dare I say it, white, pale, and stale, to making it fun, interesting, and engaging, and I think educational for people enough to actually go, hang on, I'm gonna use RAN in respect of my financial planning.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: What do you what was your approach and how do you go about it?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: There was absolutely no approach whatsoever.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was let's try a whole load of different things and see what people actually engage with and what actually connects with people.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think one of the reasons I have become so successful using social media is because of the relatability factor.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's not just as intimidating as a platform like LinkedIn, where people think that it's once they engage somebody like myself that there's an obligation there and they're gonna be, you know, in some way, I don't want to say under pressure, but you know, being uh sales pitched to.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas Instagram, they can ask a question without knowing that I'm not gonna be calling them or ringing them up or trying to be aggressive in the way that I'm selling them a product or trying to give them advice.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in the beginning, there was a lot of static content that I used, a lot of information given long form text, more than videos, mostly text, and that gradually evolved into shorter form videos and then reels and more educational stuff, which hasn't been easy to be honest with you.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's been very much let's see what happens.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And if somebody asked me how have you done it, it would be very hard for me to say I started here and went to here.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is exactly how I did it.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: It sort of just happened.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: An evolution.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: An evolution, and obviously, as we all know, especially when it comes to financial markets, if you want to compare them, put something in place, review it, and then try again.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I did.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Tried something, if it worked, kept doing it, and if it didn't, just discard it and shred it, see what happens after that.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: So one day you just sort of decided, right, I'm gonna put myself out on uh social media, I'm gonna create a social media marketing strategy.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: You started on zero like everybody does on Instagram.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: How many people have you actually reached now?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: How many people have got following you, for instance?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Just shy of 16.7,000 now.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: So 16,700 people on Instagram alone.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's maybe a few thousand on some other platforms, but I don't really use them.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it depends on your strategy, as you say, if you're going to cross-post your content onto other platforms, which you probably should be doing.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: But even from my point of view, you know, you get some things that reach a lot of people that you don't expect it to, and some things that you think a lot of people are going to watch and find value in, but it doesn't get that far.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so social media itself is really strange because you can have the best content and the best information and be the best at explaining it.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: But if it can't get in front of the right people, then it's no good to them.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the really difficult thing about social media.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, something that I'm battling with myself at the moment, I do feel like my presence should be much larger, but I'm still trying to figure out how do I get in front of those people.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think I'm only just there's some one tweak needed and it will go that direction.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I just I'm trying to figure that out at the moment.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So And is the algorithm putting you in front of local people, or is it putting you in front of people, say, across the UK or across the world?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that 16,000 followers is fantastic.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bit pointless if 15,000 of them are in India, for example.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: So my my um audience will be 80 between 80 and 85% in the UK, with the majority of that audience being in Northern Ireland, where I'm from.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so my strategy, which is very fast and loose, is as long as I am building an audience in the region that I am licensed to give financial advice in and I can provide value to those people, then in some way or form, indirectly, those people may become a prospect for me.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not me going after them and trying to get them to become a prospect.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's if I put out good information and give first, then I probably will receive on the back end.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so the focus has been slow and steady growth in the UK, the United Kingdom, as opposed to going viral and having millions of followers that unfortunately have no use to a financial planner like me who's only licensed to operate and the UK.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Some people can get really caught up on the vanity metrics on social media.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've got this many likes or I've got this many um impressions and this many follows.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: But if it doesn't convert to business, yes, it's brand awareness, but it can often be quite pointless.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: And the time it takes to build that audience, the time it takes to engage, if you're not getting a return on investment, people might start to think this is a waste of time.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: First off, how long did it take for you to start seeing a return on investment from using Instagram as a marketing platform for financial planning services?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: I would say a good year at least.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to be doing it for a year because essentially, if like any other marketing or branding strategy, you have to create a level of authority and let people know that they can trust that you know what you're talking about.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so it takes time to get there.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it depends how often you're putting content out.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you put out information once a week, that's 52 times a year.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: But if you put it out once a day, that's 365 times a year.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so it depends on on the scale at what you're doing it.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you need social proof as well, Sam.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you I don't post a lot of social proof on my page because of privacy and Because we're in a certain type of industry, um, you will have other industries that use a lot of social proof from their current clients, but I suppose a good year, I think you have to give it a year at least of consistency and discipline until you can really understand how it's going.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it could be a lot different from someone for somebody else.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have spent since I started giving advice in 2020, I've been posting on social media, right?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's we're coming up on four years, and so I've only really started to see the avalanche of the benefits and the value that from social media in the last six months.
• 22:35
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Six months, so it's taken three and a half years, and maybe in the first year I done 20 cases that were worth a certain amount of earnings for a financial planner, and this year I could do that with one client, the same amount.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think the quality expands over time.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's what we should all be aiming for is higher quality over quantity, but it's definitely not an easy road, Sam.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely not an easy road.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: That quality, quantity metric.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now you you are receiving more quality.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you've had your content going out consistently, right?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Consistently, your brand's getting out there in front of the right people.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Authority gets built when people start to see you're a follower or you've got lots of followers or people are liking your content, it starts to go in front of other people.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's how the algorithm works works, right?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: But was there a turning point on social media which if someone was listening to now could actually start at instead of going through the hard slog of actually getting there?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Or is the hard slog of getting there part of the process?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely not.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's part of the process.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that at the end of the day, people go to a financial planner because they don't want to try and learn stuff themselves.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: So they want to leapfrog all that stuff so that they can get straight down the business.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: And social media is the same.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose the approach depends on what your commitment is and what you're willing to commit financially to it, and what you're willing to commit in sweat equity.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: So the way that I did it was as little cost as possible with as much sweat equity as possible, whereas the next person could commit a budget every month to social media and get somebody to help them with it, and that means that they're going to leapfrog a lot of the trial and error that I went through.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I suppose for me, time I had time when I started giving advice, I had a lot of time because I didn't have a lot of clients, and so I thought I'll try and do this on my own, and I am now at the point where I am starting to consider do I need more professional help to expand and to build on what I've already achieved?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Have I hit a glass ceiling?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can't do it all on your own and manage hundreds of clients and give them the right service.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there has to be a balance there.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that there probably is a place that you can start and you can get advice and you can get assistance and guidance from somebody like me or a professional where you can get better at social media from day one, or you can go it alone.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's up to you.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it just depends.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: It depends what type of person you are, too.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: How much time a week do you think in the year one, year two, year three, even now, what time how much time a week are you dedicating to creating content and engaging with the audiences on social media and doing research and all those kind of things?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: On the worst days, probably three hours a day, on top of whatever hours you are doing, working, giving advice and things like that, on an easy day, maybe an hour, and it depends on how you do that.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's coming back to where I'm at now at my journey in social media is am I being effective with the use of time that I am dedicating to social media?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's all well and good saying I spend 20 hours or 30 hours a week producing social media or managing social media, but is it really 30 hours or is it 10 hours and 20 hours of faff?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I need to make sure that I'm being effective with that time and I can use that time elsewhere.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it that again, that's it's a difficult one, Sam.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: It is a difficult one.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um be prepared.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Be prepared to give it a lot of time in the early years if you're going to really take it seriously.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I promise people who do take it seriously and do it the right way, it will pay off.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: It will pay off.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: How old were you when you started as a financial advisor?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Twenty-five.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Twenty-five.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you were a younger financial advisor.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Were you put off by the traditional routes of face-to-face, maybe the solicitors, the accountants, the networking events?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Did you see that as too much of a challenge, perhaps because of your age, or did age play no significance in it?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And did it play a part in you choosing social media because of your age?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about that because there's a lot of new people coming into the profession, younger people coming in, but a lot of the time they're looked at as now you're too young, you haven't got enough grey hair, you can't sit in front of clients.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's a really good question, actually.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think that there is a blend.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's two sides of that.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, COVID being a massive accelerator for the need to use social media, because at the time we were key workers essentially in in Northern Ireland, so we could go and visit our clients, and I was servicing some clients for the firm.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: But in terms of getting out there and meeting new people, there was a big barrier because of the fear of uh illness from COVID.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so social media was sort of a way for me to try and get creative and get myself out there and and go after it.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, there was a level of comfort there and being able to avoid the fist-to-fist side because it is daunting for a young financial advisor.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you've got an education behind you, but do you have a lot of life experience and do you have a lot of on-the-job experience?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to work really hard, really quickly.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think personally, I find myself as somebody who is willing to jump on with both feet and just go, whatever happens, happens.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'll do good or I'll do bad, but I'll learn from it and I'll move on.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think I've sort of found myself in the middle.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of my um new business and new and new clients and awareness is driven through social media, but there is a massive value in taking that offline because social media is one thing, but people need to see you in real life and and put a face to the name and see you as a credible person in order for that to carry across.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think that that's why things are only really starting to happen for me now because I spent a few years building the social media and now it's all falling over the age and they read life, and people are coming to see me, and I'm going to see them, and I'm making connections and partnerships with accountants and solicitors, even here on the mainland from small city, you know, back home.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing, it really is amazing.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: It is amazing.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: All right, and I can absolutely echo what you're saying because we've been on exactly the same journey.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it took me about three years.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: I pushed my personal brand online.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: I lived on social media essentially podcast, podcast, podcast, people building relationships with me, building my LinkedIn presence, commenting, connecting with people.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: I would say it's only in year three that I'm now going out, meeting people, connecting with people, forming partnerships, forming new parts of my business.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: But the power of this the social media presence and being seen means that when I do phone up companies, they're aware of me.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, which is amazing.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like I don't take into account that when I go and see them, I just think I'm going to see them for the first time and they're going to think, who the hell this guy is?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I actually go along and they're already kind of pleased to see me.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: They've already read it.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I forget, you know, when you're looking at your social media impressions and you've got two million impressions a year, and you're looking at your following, and it's like, hang on, that's like two million impressions within the financial planning profession.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because predominantly what I market to and connect with are the people within the financial planning profession.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you just forget how powerful that is.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the ability to be in front of that many people in a year.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: And not only that, they start to hear you, they start to see you.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you went from text-based posts and information-based posts, which were really popular at one point, right?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like little mini blogs.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And every too often I will put one out and did one yesterday, actually, and it got loads of interaction, especially if it's got loads of stats in it, because people don't have to hear about stats and performance and all those typical types of things.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: But as soon as I move from that into video and audio, even my podcast, eight to ten thousand listens on a monthly basis, you know, in the subject matter of financial planning careers.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in the ears of eight to 10,000 people on a monthly basis.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm in bed having a little snooze.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's incredibly powerful.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you can see the knock-on effect that has in the following years.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I definitely echo what you're saying.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I think people get a bit confused about as well is that if you're out there on social media, you're gaining that presence, we have to get a call to action, don't we?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: How are you going to get that person from liking and watching your content to actually using your services?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Have you got a process that you follow?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: The process and financial services, as you know, obviously, is slightly different than normal traditional marketing because of financial promotions and unsolicited contact with people.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: So my strategy genuinely has been give so much value that people cannot go past you without asking you a question.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's worked.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so if anybody ever goes through any of my content, there is there is no call to actions other than if you like learning about finances, drop me a follow.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's fine.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's not me saying, Do you want an ISA or do you want a pension?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so that has been my premise was people please give more than you receive, and ultimately it'll come back to me.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, good good karma or good juju as I call it, uh, all about the juju.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that that has been my strategy.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's been very high level, Sam.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna lie.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's no brainstorming that happens in the background, it's just a continual cycle of trial and error.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: If things work, I continue to do it.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: But the biggest game changer for me recently has been trying to focus on building a community online.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Instead of just talking at your audience, I'm trying to engage with the audience and interact with them and make it more of an open discussion because that's what finances need to be open topics and not intimidating.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so if I can take away intimidation, give value, help you learn, save you some money without you even needing to see me come and think about having to pay money to come and see me, then the world's a better place and it will come back to me, and it does every day.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love that, by the way.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm exactly the same thing.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: Give it away to receive.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you say isn't it?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to keep it, you've got to give it away.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm on the same philosophy.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think with that, you just need trust and you need patience and you need faith that what you're doing is right.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you continue to put good content out, people are gonna see you as a good, helpful person.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're not charging them at that point, and they think, well, actually, now I need some help.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go to that person.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: What I love about your content though, it's fast, it's quick, and it's to the point.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what I also like about it, it's all about really what somebody might be missing out on.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're not trying to push something, you're not trying to sell them something.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to make them aware of what they're missing out on and what they could gain by listening to that video.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: You can give point them in the right direction to do it themselves.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a strategy that you found later on that works?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or did you start with that?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Is it is there a certain type of structure of content that you find has the best conversion when it comes to trying to generate those inbound uh leads, for example?
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Genuinely, there's no there's no set profile.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think the way that I like to do it is no nonsense, good information, keep it in layman's terms so people can understand it.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Even the smartest of people will still appreciate you being able to explain it in a simple way.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that when it comes to conversions, if you want to call it that, especially for for higher quality clients, if you can show them within 30 seconds that you know what you're talking about and the value they'll get from it and that what they'll miss, as we talked about, if they go past it, then they will come straight to you.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that's you're basically opening the door for them.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: You're not knocking on their door, you're opening the door for them to for for value and benefit.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: So there's as I say, and this is a really strange thing because I know that you would maybe believe that there's a lot of structure behind this, and that's something that I'm working on now because it needs to happen.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a very loose, let's see what happens, casual approach.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that comes across and the content.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of the time people think you've got to sit there and you've got to structure your content, have content creation days.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think some people do that.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: They'll sit there for a whole day, have a load of ideas, chuck them into Chat GPT, get 20 scripts, sit there in front of a camera, record it all, send it off to somebody who edits it all and gives you it back.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I hear that and I think, why am I not doing that?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it sounds like a great strategy, but I don't know if you're like me, but sometimes an idea comes to me when I'm sat on the train or and all of a sudden I pop it out there and bang, I get loads of interaction.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I think you have to be on sometimes it's obvious when somebody has loaded up a load of content.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like this is a bit boring, this is a bit kind of it's not natural.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're not you're not commenting on the the changes that are happening within the industry or some news that's happened.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: You're just it's not it's not relatable, it's not fresh.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think there is a risk to doing that kind of phase of content creation just to pop it out.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: It just feels like someone's going through the motions and it's obviously done that way.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Would you I suppose there is a level of foundation that's required, like traditional marketing, you know, like brand awareness and spreading and hedging your bets and getting your content out there constantly in a certain type of way, but you have to be agile.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: And especially in the last few years, a lot of that agility agility and numbleness around financial services has been to do with markets and interest rates.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you have a standard structure of basic valuable information that's going out, but then when these fresh things come up and they come out in the news and they're trending, and you can be agile enough to put something out there very quickly, then that also helps.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: And even for example, a good a good example is 99% mortgages, there was a flurry of people putting content out about that, and they all got great awareness and great engagement because it happened on the day and the videos were out that day, whereas they might have other content that's already been scheduled.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: So my my view on it is I probably will start doing content days for me to manage my time better, and it's a matter of creating a foundation of one piece of content goes out every single day religiously for six months or a year on pure value so that people can do things on their own without necessarily having to come and speak to me, and then those things I'll gap-fill myself, put on fresh content.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: And personally, I don't like scripting videos, I don't like scripting content because I think you know, you just know when people have scripted it.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Touch points and direction are fine, but whenever you have a script that doesn't match your your own personality or the way you speak, you know a mile off.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think take the foot off of gas, let go of it.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: You are who you are, and put yourself out there and and people will will appreciate you for you.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron, I hope you don't mind me asking this question, but I always love to give people context of the hard work that goes into social media uh creation and social marketing strategies.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, we want to know really what the reward is within that as well.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: We understand it can take a good couple of years to build that authority, but when it comes, it's like a it's like an avalanche of of business.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I've experienced that.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're obviously clearly experiencing that.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give some people some context of fees?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or how many clients?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just say, you know, like what are you generating through social media when it comes to fees and new client relationships?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not that I talk about it to a lot of people, but for example, in the first year I started giving advice in 2020 versus the 2023 calendar year, I did quadruple the amount that I'd done in my first year.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously 95% of that is generated through social media in one way or another.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, client-wise, I'd be up near 200 clients now at this point.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, with a with an element of picking and choosing some of those clients, I am now at the point where I have the ability to say yes or no to some people.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as you as you raise your own standards and raise your own bar.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: So at this point in time, I'm writing associate partner level business, which is a very good milestone for anybody giving advice, um, even in your first few years.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and funds under management obviously will be in the millions.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: My focus, obviously, because I'm a young guy and this is where things will differ between myself and somebody who's 40 or 50 entering the profession, is I have a lot of time, Sam.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: So my my goal is not about getting 50 million pounds under under management within five years, it's seeing and helping as many people as I can, building a structure and helping them change their their own lives and their own lifestyle.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: And whenever you do that, if there's a lot of regular contributions involved, for example, I believe that I have over a half a million pound a year of regular contributions being paid into ISIS and pensions and things like that, and that will amount to millions over the next 20 years while I'm in the industry and only get bigger.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: So coming back to the the results of of this is it's been massively life-changing for me.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it's been difficult, and there is an element of imposter syndrome when you're putting yourself out there at the beginning, but it does pay off.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: So is that enough?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is that enough detail for you?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's fine.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: That gives me, you know, we don't want to go into insecurity and not everyone wants to share their you know their financial details.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: But what I wanted people to understand is look, if you do it and you put the energy and effort in over specific amounts of time, you will reap the rewards.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: I also love the fact about the regular contribution size and how old you are.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of advisors might turn their nose up at business like that.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: You see that as an investment in your client and you're going to gain more from them in the future because you are a younger advisor.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: So right there, you're you're talking about the opportunities for younger advisors.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Are there any other opportunities for younger advisors that you're seeing at the moment, whether it be marketing, uh, whether it be networking, whether it be technology?
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: All three.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that we're at a critical point in the financial services industry, genuinely.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: We've got the baby boomers who are at near the end of their careers, who will either be selling their business or or wrapping up their business to retire.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so for younger people who are entering the industry who are willing to try use social media, try and use technology, try and streamline their processes, they have a chance to grab market share that probably wasn't available 10 or 20 years ago because those people who were already in the profession for several decades, they had a lot of experience and they were the go-to people.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we are now at a point where, like markets, there's a new cycle starting.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And can I become an authority?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Can I become a go-to person?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: Not just in my city, but around the whole country because of social media, which is mad, really, when you think about it.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because if I do what I'm trying to do properly and get a massive audience, like Martin Lewis, for example, a million followers, then in reality I can be dealing with so many people around the UK, like a huge, a huge firm if I really wanted to go that direction.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: But it's all come from me sitting in a bedroom, scribbling down a few ideas.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think the opportunity for new advisors is monumental, monumental.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and obviously that's why I'm so motivated.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: They work hard at what I do now.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to be patient and have a vision and work hard for it and not try and bite off more than I can chew, but understand that you can achieve much more in five years than you think you can.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas some people I think will get past a year and go, Well, it's not working, I'm not going to do it anymore.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: But if you give it a solid five years in this in this point in time, you know, markets are poised for for a good ball run for another 10 years because of what's happened in recent years, if we ref avoid recession.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, at the end of the day, people hopefully they can read my fist when I'm saying I'm going after it.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: And if there's anybody out there who is game, as I call it, or willing, they should try and go after it as well.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: What I love about your approach as well is speed.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the speed that you can actually start talking to your customers or potential customers.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, we talked before the podcast about technology and about how you do use technology.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: Again, COVID forced you online in respect of social media.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: But as the snowball started building, as did the leads coming in.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes screening those leads and are they quality, are they not quality?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: How quickly can you take somebody from a social media platform to sitting in front of you so you can actually sell, you know, sell your services, provide a solution to their financial problems.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, what's your strategy when it comes to uh the client meetings as a financial planner who is massively into technology?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll try and make this as simple as I can because I can waffle.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: But the the easiest process that I can come up with is you have um marketing that reaches as many people as possible in a valuable way so that they will be enticed in some way indirectly to schedule a virtual meeting, which because of COVID, that became a very big thing.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Zoom, Teams, Google, all these types of things.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that means that you can have a conversation with somebody virtually quite quickly uh through a digital calendar.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the interim, my process is somebody will book a meeting to come and see to come and see me either fisty-fist or online within a within a week generally, and they will get a digital document that um is a bit of infrastructure that St.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: James's Plus actually uh put in place through digital clipboard, and that means that I could capture some of their details before I meet them.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: And instead of me spending the first 45 or 50 minutes of that first virtual or 50-fist meeting doing a fact find, the majority of it is already there because that syncs from digital clipboard to Salesforce, which is a CRM that St.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: James's Plus uses.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that means that the first five minutes is pleasantries and getting to know somebody, tidying up some of the details, and then getting right into business, asking the client or the potential client to prospect, I don't need to talk at you and get your information.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell me what I can do for you?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: What value do you need from me?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll tell you what value I can give you.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: By the end of the call, you probably already have agreed what's going to happen.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Then you go and write your advice and provide it to the client.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the process is social media for mass awareness, digital calendar for ease and streamlining of booking appointments.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: Then in between that, you will have the capture of personal details through software, digital clipboard.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then after that, you will have your advice writing process, presentation to the client virtually or fist to fist, and then agree your business.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: And proceed if the client is happy.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so the old school, the old school saying would be get out there face to face and see them.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: How successful at converting clients from that first meeting to actual business are you when it comes to virtual meetings?
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: I would say easily 70%.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because the thing is that if somebody books an appointment to see me fist-to-fist, it might be a general conversation.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in some ways, when people see my content online and they contact me and they make a a booking to see me about something specific and they leave a note.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: I am a limited company director, I need to set up a pension.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: Then in some ways, psychologically, and this is me giving away the tips here, psychologically, they've prepared they've already prepared themselves to say yes to somebody's advice.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: I just have to make sure that I don't give them a reason to say no to my advice, which is a really weird way to look at it.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: If they've decided to come and see me, they obviously trust me and they need advice.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Do I have to give them the advice that they need that's useful and valuable and cost-effective for them, suits their their circumstances?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: What I don't do is give them a reason to say no.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so somebody could say the wrong thing or not give the right information or um not connect with a client in a certain type of way.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that might mean that they don't do business with that client.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: But the way that I've seem to have done it, people seem to like me for some reason.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it seems to be very, very effective.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're a very likable person.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: You come across really well on social media and content.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: When I think financial planner on Instagram, I think of you.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is why they trust you.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's because they've already built a relationship with you.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: They've already be they follow you, they see your content, they like what you're saying.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: No doubt each week you give them some key bit of information that they didn't know.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now, limited companies, I run a limited company, I'm not the best at finances.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: At the moment, I'm getting help externally from somebody with my finances on an internal basis, cash flow forecasting, all that sort of stuff for the business.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we are under a lot of pressure as limited company owners, business owners, you wear so many hats.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when we see somebody that gives us free information and it's spot on to the point, business owners trust people quite quickly.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: They just want to get the right person who does the right thing in as quickly as they can.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: They just want help.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have time to sit there and screen people, you know, because they've got things to do and they understand also the financials that go with it, the commercials.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: So they just want a partnership with somebody who's going to do the right thing for them.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where you are doing really well on social media.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: So Instagram, people think, well, what you're just getting likes from, you know, people try, you know, taking selfies on the beach or whatnot.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you're getting business owners on there as well, are you?
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, the thing that has taught me the most is you do not make assumptions about people's profiles because somebody could have the vaguest, weird, weirdest profile that you will ever see, but it could be potentially one of the biggest butts of business that you'll ever do.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: It could be somebody who keeps a low profile online, but they are not low profile for a certain reason.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so the quality is huge.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: You could be dealing, I could be dealing with a footballer, I could be dealing with somebody who makes half a million pounds a year doing IT from their bedroom.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: It just depends.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but obviously they have come to a point where they trust me enough to reach out because they know that I am going to be confidential and I'm going to treat them correctly.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of people don't see the stuff that goes on behind the outward fist and content.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: Sam, I help a lot of people that I don't charge money and I don't expect anything in return from them.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lot of conversations, a lot of phone calls with people who just generally need a bit of help.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then that really number one gives you more experience.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: But number two, you don't know who that person spoke to or who that person knows.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: And when the dots all connect, then they know they can trust you, and then that turned into them contacting you.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: So coming back to give first and receive second, that is the way that it works for me.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um quality-wise, obviously, in the financial services profession, you have to be you have to give people their privacy and and and discretion.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't tell you exactly, but you would be surprised.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: You would be surprised.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: From a training and development perspective, you learnt all this yourself, or were you leaning into podcasts, books?
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything that you can recommend to our listeners when it comes to trying to build the right mindset, A, to be a financial planner, but also to have the courage to try different methods such as social press, you know, social media.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anybody you follow?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody you can sort of mention now to our listeners?
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe they can go out there and start the same journey and and and get ahead quite quickly.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of, well, obviously, in terms of becoming a financial planner, the way that I've sort of decided to treat it, Sam, is I have let go of all pride and I have just opened myself up completely and says, I am going to try all these different things.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: Some things are going to work and some things aren't, and that's okay.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: But I am going to be self-aware and try and learn from what's happening in front of me.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Social media, for example, we both know everybody knows there's things that work and there's things that don't.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: Can you recognise the patterns of things that are working, the things that aren't?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you just continually doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I try my best to be open and to absorb information.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um mindset-wise, being a financial planner is not an easy career.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's not an easy career to break into.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: The barriers to entry are getting better, they're they're not as high anymore.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: You can do things like go through the St.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: James's Plus Academy, which reduces the barrier, trusted process, reputable company, and will definitely give you the platform you need to succeed as a financial planner.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: But obviously, you personally then have to take on um a certain character.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be a certain type of person to know that not everybody's going to say yes, and you have to be willing to accept there could be no more no's than there are yeses, but statistically they'll weigh themselves out.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think from a mindset point of view, again, very high level, you just have to be really open and reduce your expectations, um, let go of your ego.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you probably will build an ego over time as you get better and get more confident, but I think every day is a learning day still for me, and I'm not afraid they ask questions.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: The people that I know have more experience who have dealt with particular types of cases.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: I still contact St.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: James's Plus Advisors in the mainland for clients that I know I've never done this before.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's best for me to get somebody else involved.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: Not and that's again, it's not about the money, Sam.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's about good advice and good value.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: The money and becoming successful as a financial planner for me as a byproduct of giving good advice.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: You started as an administrator, you put yourself forward, you um, as you say, manifested the role of financial planner.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: In reality, you asked for it, didn't you?
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're asking the universe or you're asking the person whose business that you were supporting.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: You work your way through administration, you work your way through power planning, you then became a financial planner.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: Some people go down the uh St.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: James's Place um academy, right?
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: And they go straight in and maybe they go into becoming a partner.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's worth noting that only one third end up actually straight away becoming running their own partner practices.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: They do a fair bit of due diligence to say, like, are you a business owner and a financial planner?
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because the two are very different.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: They are.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, two-thirds go down the financial planning route.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: And some of those who come from a profession perhaps where they're used to building relationships.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they have a strong network, maybe they know confidently that when they become a financial planner, get the qualifications that they've got a network to actually lean into.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of the younger people perhaps come from university or perhaps they're in their mid-20s like you were, really might need to actually understand the mechanics of a financial planning for a firm first of all.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think being going down the admin power planner to advise a route for you, do you think that was really beneficial?
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was valuable.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think it has its pros and cons.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, whenever you, as we talked about, if you could start at a specific place with a certain timeline to get to B, so that you knew that you were meeting the needs of what you needed to achieve, like this in James Plus Academy, you can go from A to B and come out the other end and advisor.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas my journey was a lot more volatile than that.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there was days where I wanted to be a financial planner and there was days that I didn't.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: There was days that that I thought, should I be a diploma level poplanner?
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: So it that that is difficult, but I definitely got exposed to areas of a financial planning business that if you weren't going the route that I went, if you didn't go advisor, power planner or administrator, power planner, advisor, you wouldn't have been exposed to those things.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've dealt with everything from opening the mail on a Monday morning to dealing with massive cases and everything in between.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think that's a a blessing because I know that if I am on my own and if I ever am in a position where I don't have people helping me, that I can make a good stab at whatever I need to do.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas in some cases, if you're in a structure where you don't exactly have that exposure, then the learning curve can be very steep unless you're in a firm where the structure and the infrastructure of the business is so good that you don't even need to worry about it.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: But obviously, if you come from my academy, that's not always going to be the case if your goal is to open up your own practice.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: So for me personally, it was invaluable.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously, I owe that to the partner practice that I was working with and my colleagues, because again, they had patience for me and they they give me information as time went on.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: But it took it took years for me to get to a point where I was confident in what I was doing, and then it just rolled over into them becoming an advisor.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it depends on the person too, Sam.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you're a happy-go-lucky, motivated and willing person that doesn't need a lot of structure and you're happy and self-motivated, the way that I done it is fine.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: Some people prefer more structure and more rigidity, and that's okay too.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's pros and cons to both, but I wouldn't change the way it's worked out for me for by the word for anything.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: I would do it all over again.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: What about the support of the wider St.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: James's place group?
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is there access to you mentioned in the early stages, jumping on, doing your qualifications, the the the the information that was available for you from a learning perspective?
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: What else when it comes to things like asking those technical questions?
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have support to the wider business?
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: Access to people that can actually uh correct your thinking or guide you in the right direction if something difficult came up, some tax questions, things like that.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: You have access to a various range and suite of specific professionals in different departments at St.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: James's Plus had offices between Siren Chester and and uh Craigforth that will give you guidance on whatever you need to know, even if your own partner practice hasn't dealt with that before.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: For example, um, if you're doing a new type of case that involves a specific type of trust, there is a phone number you can call and somebody will talk you through it at the other end.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: This is what you need to be aware of, this is how the process works.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget about X, Y, and Z.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, for me, that has given me a lot of confidence to push forward and drive my own success because I have the support and the reputation of St.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: James's Place behind me.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if I wasn't part of St.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: James's Plus, would I be just as driven to go forward and try new cases and go for new business and try more complex planning?
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, um, you've got obviously your internal mechanics of your own firm, the guys that you work with and your colleagues who will have a wealth of experience.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: You ask them first, and then above that, you have your your business development or regional team who can direct you to the people that you need to speak to, and then you get to the specific helplines, investment management, you've got the business assurance teams with for pensions and investments, and they can give you a steer.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then obviously St.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: James's Plus has the internal framework as well for giving advice, knowing your clients and writing suitable advice.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: So the infrastructure is fantastic.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly doesn't feel like you're in your back bedroom on your own, does it?
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like you've got some experts in your back pocket.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, Oren, let's finish off with some advice to the younger advisors or even new advisors joining the profession.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: What advice would you give them?
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: My biggest piece of advice would be be willing, be open, don't be afraid to ask questions and never think that you know everything because you don't.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: The more you learn, the more you realise you don't know.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say be confident in your ability, but don't overestimate your ability.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: Be willing to work hard, understand that it's going to take a few years for you to get somewhere.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: And like an investment, you need to give it five years before you can really look back and review what's happened and make plans to go forward.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's a few things in there.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um but overall, I would say learn as much as you can, work as hard as you can, and give as much value as you can, and it will all wrap up and come back to you in a positive way.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic advice.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: One foot in front of the other, remain humble, ensure that you continue to learn.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't happen straight away.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: The results do come later on as long as you put the work in, right?
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's 100%.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oren, thank you so much for your time today and sharing your journey on the Financial Panel Life podcast.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciate it.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're welcome.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for having me.