Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Police Identify Body as Missing Mom Rachel Morin

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Police Identify Body as Missing Mom Rachel Morin · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:14
Speaker 2: A gorgeous mom heads out to a local hiking trail
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Speaker 2: she's never seen alive again. At this hour, family distraught
0:27
Speaker 2: as police confirm the body of Rachel Mourn has been found.
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Speaker 3: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
0:36
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation
0:38
Speaker 2: in series XM one eleven. Take a listen to our
0:41
Speaker 2: friends at w j Z.
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Speaker 4: The sheriff said the community came together to search for
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Speaker 4: thirty seven year old Rachel Mooren when she was reported missing.
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Speaker 4: Now he's asking the community to help find the person
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Speaker 4: responsible for her death.
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Speaker 5: Very a quiet, popular trail in Hartford County now at
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Speaker 5: the center of a homicide investigation that startled the entire community.
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Speaker 2: They set up a command center here, so we figured
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Speaker 2: that it was something rather grave that has happened to
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Speaker 2: that poor one.
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Speaker 6: Just after one pm Sunday, someone called them saying they
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Speaker 6: found a body off the trail.
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Speaker 7: Well, we firmly believe this is the body of Rachel.
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Speaker 7: More in that final determination, that final shay belongs with
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Speaker 7: the medical examiner, and that has.
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Speaker 3: Not happened yet.
1:34
Speaker 6: The sheriff says, investigators have no doubt that this is
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Speaker 6: a homicide.
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Speaker 2: Guys, you are also hearing our friends at WBAL with
1:42
Speaker 2: me an all star panel to make sense of what
1:44
Speaker 2: we know right now. Before we go one step further,
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Speaker 2: let me go straight out to Vincent Hill, anchor reporter
1:50
Speaker 2: for Fox forty five in Baltimore, former police officer and
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Speaker 2: private investigator, and author of a hit book, Playbook to
2:00
Speaker 2: a Murder on Amazon. Vincent, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: We are hearing that the police are confirming this is,
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Speaker 2: in fact thirty seven year old Rachel Morin mother. She
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Speaker 2: is absolutely gorgeous by all accounts, beautiful on the inside
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Speaker 2: and out. But I'm interested as a medical examiner has
2:23
Speaker 2: not yet confirmed her death. I'm curious are they identifying
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Speaker 2: her by her clothing, tattoo, dental records? Was her face
2:35
Speaker 2: still recognizable? How have they identified her if the medical
2:40
Speaker 2: examiner has not given a firm official identification.
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Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, that's the million dollar question. And Sheriff Gaylor
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Speaker 8: said to me on Sunday that they are convinced it's
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Speaker 8: to homicide. They are convinced it's her, and he also
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Speaker 8: went into how physical and how brutal that crime scene
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Speaker 8: may have been. She was actually found inside a tunnel
3:01
Speaker 8: under the mind paw trail, so something has tipped investigators
3:06
Speaker 8: to believe that that is actually the mother Rachel Morin.
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Speaker 2: You know, I'm very curious about how they're doing it,
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Speaker 2: how they're making this identification to Doctor Tim Gallagher joining me.
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Speaker 2: Renowned medical examiner for the State of Florida. You can
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Speaker 2: find him at pathcaremed dot com. Lecturer University of Florida
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Speaker 2: Medical School, Forensic Medicine, and founder of the International Forensic
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Speaker 2: Medicine Death Investigation Conference.
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Speaker 3: Doctor Gallagher.
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Speaker 2: Before there was a DNA, IDs were made routinely and
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Speaker 2: fairly quickly based on what Dr Gallagher well, there.
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Speaker 9: Were other methods of identifying people. One of them were
3:47
Speaker 9: dental records, and of course, you know, before DNA there
3:50
Speaker 9: were a lot of identifications made. There are also a
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Speaker 9: lot of mistakes made, so DNA has certainly tightened up
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Speaker 9: that area of identification. But fingerprints are also a good
4:04
Speaker 9: method of identification. If she is not decomposed, we can
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Speaker 9: get fingerprints, and there's something called a rapid I D.
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Speaker 9: If her fingerprints are on file, we can do fingerprints,
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Speaker 9: send it through the rapid IDs which goes through APIs,
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Speaker 9: and then then we will be able to identify her
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Speaker 9: that way. Certainly, tattoos would also come into effect if
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Speaker 9: she has any medical devices that are on her, any
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Speaker 9: types of identification such as a pacemaker or other medical devices,
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Speaker 9: perhaps a breast implants in her case, we can follow
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Speaker 9: the serial numbers on those and then make a notification
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Speaker 9: that way. So there are certain there are very many avenues,
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Speaker 9: dental fingerprints, unique body features if a DNA is not.
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Speaker 3: Available, as well as clothing.
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Speaker 9: Yeah, clothing, yes, Nancy, But you know that's also fraught
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Speaker 9: with its downside too, because problems. Right, So there are
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Speaker 9: a lot of clothing that are very similar, you know.
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Speaker 9: But that certainly is a secondary form of identification that
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Speaker 9: we can use.
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Speaker 3: Now you have to ask yourself. Joining me.
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Speaker 2: Ron Bateman, former sheriff Arundel County, Maryland, former homicide and
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Speaker 2: undercover narcotics officer, author of Silent Blue Tears, Voice of
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Speaker 2: the Victims.
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Speaker 3: Ron, let's just get real for a minute.
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Speaker 2: I believe I saw the population of bel Air, which
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Speaker 2: is about a thirty minute drive from Baltimore, is ten thousand,
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Speaker 2: six hundred and sixty one. As I recall, she goes
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Speaker 2: hiking on this trail, the matt and Paw Trail. A
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Speaker 2: body is found of a blonde female on this trail,
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Speaker 2: the Mott and Paw Trail.
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Speaker 3: Who else is it.
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Speaker 10: Going to be? Well, I can tell you that Cherless Gaylor,
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Speaker 10: who I know very well, would not stick his neck
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Speaker 10: out and say with someone else if it was in
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Speaker 10: fact Rachel. So I'm sure he has beyond convincing evidence
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Speaker 10: to say in his mind that he feels confident that
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Speaker 10: it is.
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Speaker 2: Rachel speaking of take a listen to what we are
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Speaker 2: hearing from our friends at WMAR two.
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Speaker 11: The Belair community is now mourning the death of thirty
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Speaker 11: seven year old Rachel Moren after her body was found
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Speaker 11: on Mott and Paw Trail Sunday afternoon.
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Speaker 12: And something like this should not happen in Harvard County.
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Speaker 11: Officers say Rachel Morn left her home around six pm
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Speaker 11: Saturday and went over to the mottin Paw Trail around
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Speaker 11: eleven pm. Officer say her boyfriend reported her missing, which
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Speaker 11: is when a search began for Rachel. Just after one
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Speaker 11: pm Sunday afternoon, police got a call saying a woman's
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Speaker 11: body was found on the same trail.
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Speaker 2: Body found on same trail, and you hear them narrowing
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Speaker 2: down the likelihood of suspects, but we don't know that.
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Speaker 2: And also we're getting a glimpse into the manner of death.
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Speaker 2: Take a listen our cut eighteen. This is Sheriff Jeffrey Galler.
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Speaker 7: While it was all of our home, certainly mine, and
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Speaker 7: everyone standing up here with me, and the men and
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Speaker 7: women of our office and all of our citizens, that
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Speaker 7: Rachel will be found safe. At about one oh seven PM,
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Speaker 7: a citizen called nine one one to report a female's
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Speaker 7: body had been located off the trail. At that time,
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Speaker 7: it was obvious that this person was deceased. The investigation
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Speaker 7: was went from a missing person investigation to a homicide investigation.
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Speaker 2: Guys, I want to focus on two words we just
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Speaker 2: heard from the elected sheriff. Quote it was obvious the
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Speaker 2: person was deceased. It immediately goes from missing person to homicide.
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Speaker 2: So very clearly, Vincent Hill, this was a violent homicide.
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Speaker 2: Quote obvious the person was deceased and the victim of homicide.
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Speaker 2: No doubt that there was a suicide, no doubt that
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Speaker 2: there wasn't a natural cause of death like heat, exhaustion
8:02
Speaker 2: or something akin to that. So, Vincent Hill, you were
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Speaker 2: there covering the case when the body was found. What
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Speaker 2: more can you tell us about this MA and Paw
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Speaker 2: trail and anything else you know about the discovery of
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Speaker 2: this female body we believe to meet Rachel Morin.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, Nancy, So the trail was kind of in the
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Speaker 8: middle of nowhere in Harford County, And of course, when
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Speaker 8: you're talking about jogging and hiking trails, there's not a
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Speaker 8: lot of cameras, but there are a lot of people. Now,
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Speaker 8: keep in mind, the boyfriend said she went missing or
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Speaker 8: she went to the trail around six.
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Speaker 3: O'clock, six pm.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, correct, And around one oh seven Sunday afternoon, a
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Speaker 8: female found Rachel's body under a tunnel that goes under
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Speaker 8: the MA and Paw Trail near high Way twenty four.
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Speaker 8: And when I pressed the sheriff of sheriff, you've used
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Speaker 8: the word homicide. How do we know this was not
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Speaker 8: an accident? He touched on the physicality of Rachel's body
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Speaker 8: when it was found, So that tells you something grusom happened.
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Speaker 3: Okay, when you say Vincent Hill, he touched.
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Speaker 2: He the sheriff, the elected sheriff touched on the quote physicality,
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Speaker 2: What do you mean by that? By the physicality you mean,
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Speaker 2: the condition of the body when discovered.
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Speaker 3: Is that what you're saying right?
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Speaker 8: The share said, well, I won't tell you how investigators
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Speaker 8: found her physically, but we have no doubt that this
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Speaker 8: is a homicide.
9:24
Speaker 10: Is worse.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with me? It's he Greece.
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Speaker 2: I want to go to Matthew Mangino, guy's former prosecutor,
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Speaker 2: former district attorney in Pennsylvania, author of the executioners, told
9:46
Speaker 2: listen to this the crimes, arrest, trials, appeals, last meals.
9:51
Speaker 2: I would love to read that and final words. Okay,
9:55
Speaker 2: who cares what they said after they murdered one or
9:57
Speaker 2: many more and they got the death penalty? What I
10:00
Speaker 2: didn't do it? And executions of forty six persons in
10:03
Speaker 2: the US. Matthew Mangino, I've got to agree with the
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Speaker 2: sheriff Galler and our current firm sheriff joining US, Ron Bateman.
10:14
Speaker 2: When you see a murder, you know it's a murder. Okay,
10:19
Speaker 2: here's a good one. You know, when you're walking along,
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Speaker 2: taking a walk, you're walking your dog or whatever, and
10:24
Speaker 2: all of a sudden you smell a horrible smell. You know,
10:28
Speaker 2: you smell dog poop, or you know you smell an
10:33
Speaker 2: animal that's been run over. It's immediate, you know, nobody
10:38
Speaker 2: needs to tell you. It's like when you find a
10:40
Speaker 2: dead body. You know immediately they're dead and you know
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Speaker 2: they've been murdered. There's not really a question in many cases.
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Speaker 13: All right. And we're talking about you know, experienced law
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Speaker 13: enforcement officers who have, you know, investigated crimes like this
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Speaker 13: in the past, so they know it when they when
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Speaker 13: they see it. And unfortunately, in this situation, I think
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Speaker 13: her sister said that she didn't go down easy, you know,
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Speaker 13: so she may have fought for her life and there
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Speaker 13: would be probably considered considerable amount of bruising an injury
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Speaker 13: that it would make it apparent by looking at her
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Speaker 13: that she was deceased and was the victim of a homicide.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what, You're right, isn't that right? Vincent
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Speaker 2: Hill Vincent joining me from Fox forty five, Baltimore. Vincent
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Speaker 2: the sister Rachel Mooreen's sister, who, by the way, has
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Speaker 2: created a gofundmeate to pay for the funeral expenses for
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Speaker 2: this mother of five, three girls, two boys, all very young. No, mommy,
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Speaker 2: let's just let that sink in for a moment, and
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Speaker 2: I gotta have a shrink talk about that care and
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Speaker 2: start joining me. But Vincent Hill, Rachel's sister was very
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Speaker 2: clear that this is Rachel and that she fought for
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Speaker 2: her life.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, Nancy, I mean the family was notified immediately, so
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Speaker 8: obviously the sheriff's department knew it was Rachel. The family
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Speaker 8: unfortunately had to go identify Rachel at some point. So, yeah,
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Speaker 8: she knew it was her sister, and she probably has
12:20
Speaker 8: to deal with what happened to her sister because bell Air.
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Speaker 8: You talked about the population, Nancy, I report in Baltimore
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Speaker 8: and surrounding areas, things like this they just don't happen
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Speaker 8: in bel Air. You may have a drunk driver, you
12:33
Speaker 8: may have a domestic violence here and there, but things
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Speaker 8: like this don't happen in bel Air.
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Speaker 2: You know, that's an interesting statement. You know, Karen starting
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Speaker 2: joining me, renowned psychologist, TV radio trauma expert and consultant.
12:47
Speaker 2: You can find her at Karenstark dot com and that's
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Speaker 2: Karen with a C. Karen, we want to believe this
12:55
Speaker 2: can't happen in my neighborhood, I mean at our apartment
12:59
Speaker 2: in New York. I know it can happen if I
13:01
Speaker 2: put one toe out on the street in many rural areas,
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Speaker 2: people think this cannot happen. I grew up thinking, well,
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Speaker 2: I wasn't even thinking about crime because it, as we
13:12
Speaker 2: were just hearing, doesn't happen. But no one is immune.
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Speaker 2: And here's my example. I will come up with any
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Speaker 2: one one day. But the case of dealing is Shasta
13:23
Speaker 2: grown knee in Court de Lane, Idaho. If you fly
13:29
Speaker 2: over that and I have looked down, there's nothing but green.
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Speaker 2: Nothing but it looks like a lot of broccoli is
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Speaker 2: completely green. They lived there, and some perv drove by
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Speaker 2: on the interstate and saw Shasta the girl I believe
13:50
Speaker 2: it was at an above ground pool, and went and
13:53
Speaker 2: lay in wait for the family to go to sleep,
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Speaker 2: then kill the whole family, and took the boy and girl. Ultimately,
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Speaker 2: after blesting them over and over and over and over,
14:02
Speaker 2: playing these games where you strangle the victim and then
14:05
Speaker 2: you bring them back to life, and then you do
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Speaker 2: it again, the little boy Dylan died and Shasta miraculously
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Speaker 2: was saved. But they literally lived in the middle of
14:17
Speaker 2: a forest. So no one is a mean Karen Stark.
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Speaker 14: No one is immune, And unfortunately Nancy. We hear about
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Speaker 14: stories where there are females who are jogging and somehow
14:31
Speaker 14: in that situation somebody sees them or follows them and
14:37
Speaker 14: winds and they wind up being dead. And that's so
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Speaker 14: frightening because you believe that you should be able to
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Speaker 14: go out and do whatever it is that you want
14:49
Speaker 14: to do, and that really is in the case. You
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Speaker 14: have to be very cautious and aware of what's around you.
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Speaker 14: And unfortunately somebody took advantage of her.
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Speaker 3: They really did. They.
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Speaker 2: I don't know if she was sex assaulted yet or not,
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Speaker 2: but if she was or was not, either way will
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Speaker 2: give me more clues as to who the killer was.
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Speaker 2: Guy speaking of the tunnel, Seemingly someone had a premonition
15:16
Speaker 2: she would be found in a tunnel. Now, typically if
15:19
Speaker 2: you say you've got a premition about a murder and
15:21
Speaker 2: it comes true, you become a suspect. I don't think
15:23
Speaker 2: that's true in this case. Take a listen nowur cut
15:26
Speaker 2: sixteen from WMAR.
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Speaker 11: The call came in from Michael Gabbrizeski, who says he
15:31
Speaker 11: joined the search after hearing about Rachel's disappearance. He says
15:34
Speaker 11: his daughter was friends with Rachel. He and his daughter
15:37
Speaker 11: and a friend found Rachel's body in a drain, and.
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Speaker 12: I kept telling them to search the tunnels because I
15:43
Speaker 12: had a feeling about those tunnels. And I walked forward
15:48
Speaker 12: to search the one tunnel, and they searched the one
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Speaker 12: and that's where they found her.
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Speaker 11: Michael says the state they found her body in led
15:54
Speaker 11: him to believe she was murderer.
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Speaker 2: So we know who found the body. It's Michael Gabrzeski,
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Speaker 2: a friend of the family, and he had a premonition
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Speaker 2: about these tunnels and felt she may be in a tunnel,
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Speaker 2: and in fact she was. He says, it's her and
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Speaker 2: that she was murdered. Vincent Hill, explain to me about
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Speaker 2: the tunnels. Let me think of a good example. When
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Speaker 2: we were little and we literally lived in the middle
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Speaker 2: of nowhere on a red dirt road and there was
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Speaker 2: a giant tunnel, a big pipe, really big, like six
16:33
Speaker 2: foot circumference, and we could run under there and run
16:37
Speaker 2: across the road.
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Speaker 3: But under the road that's a tunnel.
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Speaker 2: Let's say in Central Park you go under a very
16:46
Speaker 2: short tunnel, maybe fifty feet long eighty feet and that
16:52
Speaker 2: could be a tunnel, and it's wide enough for a
16:55
Speaker 2: horse drawn carriage to go through.
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Speaker 3: That's a tunnel. What are these tunnels?
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Speaker 2: Keep hearing about, Vincent, And that leads me to another
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Speaker 2: line of inquiry, that was she killed in daylight hours,
17:09
Speaker 2: as someone did it in a tunnel to obscure other
17:11
Speaker 2: people's vision. It stays light there well into the evening.
17:16
Speaker 2: Now a daylight savings, I mean a lot can be
17:20
Speaker 2: extrapolated from the location of her being killed in or
17:24
Speaker 2: near the tunnel. So tell me about the tunnels, Vincent.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, you described the best, Nancy. It's one of those
17:29
Speaker 8: tunnels that goes under the highway Highway twenty fours right there.
17:33
Speaker 8: And from what I've been told by people that live
17:36
Speaker 8: in the area, they shoot a lot of music videos
17:38
Speaker 8: in those tunnels. And around one oh seven, when Michael
17:43
Speaker 8: found the body, his daughter Cecilia actually called nine point
17:46
Speaker 8: one to say she was found and one of those tunnels.
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Speaker 8: But what's interesting the tunnel is not actually close to
17:52
Speaker 8: where her car was found. Are close to the entrance
17:55
Speaker 8: of the mon Pa trio.
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Speaker 2: Okay, hold on just a moment. That's a lot of information.
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Speaker 2: Vincent is joining us from Fox forty five Baltimore. Repeat
18:02
Speaker 2: that really slowly, so we can all dissect it. And
18:05
Speaker 2: let me remind everyone we're in the middle of what
18:08
Speaker 2: I believe to be a murder investigation of a mother
18:11
Speaker 2: of five. So I've got a real brain trust here.
18:15
Speaker 2: Jump in people, All right, Okay, go ahead, Vince and
18:20
Speaker 2: say that again, because that had a lot, a lot
18:24
Speaker 2: of evidentiary issues and what you just said.
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Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean where Rachel was found in the tunnel
18:30
Speaker 8: is not close to where her car was or close
18:32
Speaker 8: to the entrance of the trail. And the thing about
18:35
Speaker 8: the trail on Nancy, I was there at ten o'clock
18:37
Speaker 8: Sunday night. It's very dark back there, so anything could
18:41
Speaker 8: have happened. Anyone could have come out of anywhere to
18:44
Speaker 8: take this young lady and do whatever they did to her.
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Speaker 2: Okay, straight back out to Ron Bateman, former sheriff, What
18:50
Speaker 2: do you think about that?
18:51
Speaker 10: Well, you know, these opportunistic criminals strength at the strangest times.
18:56
Speaker 10: I've worked cases here in my jurisdiction where we had
19:01
Speaker 10: a jogger, same thing. She was a jogger an area
19:04
Speaker 10: where she frequented, so she may have been stalked, but
19:08
Speaker 10: same thing, just a brutal murder out of nowhere. Did
19:11
Speaker 10: not know the victim. I've actually handled a case where
19:15
Speaker 10: a body was actually placed in a drainage pipe that
19:18
Speaker 10: wasn't big like you're describing Nancy, where you can walk
19:21
Speaker 10: through it. But it's just these opportunistic criminals just blow
19:27
Speaker 10: me away when they just do this out of nowhere
19:29
Speaker 10: for no reason whatsoever. And I wouldn't read too much
19:32
Speaker 10: into this local guy saying make sure you checked the tunnels,
19:37
Speaker 10: because if you grew up in the area and you
19:39
Speaker 10: frequent it when you were a little kid, and you
19:41
Speaker 10: grew up there and you were always in the woods
19:43
Speaker 10: or in the tunnels, I wouldn't draw too much attention
19:46
Speaker 10: to that, though it still would would spark my curiosity
19:49
Speaker 10: for sure.
19:50
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I put him in the category of a
19:54
Speaker 2: great friend of the family. He goes out. He doesn't
19:57
Speaker 2: just sit around going, oh no, she's missing. He goes
19:59
Speaker 2: out and tries to find her with his daughter. And
20:03
Speaker 2: I doubt very seriously he'd bring his daughter along if
20:07
Speaker 2: he knew he was going to find a dead body
20:10
Speaker 2: of a family friend. And also, I can never forget
20:13
Speaker 2: Roy Kronk. Do you remember him? He was the guy
20:15
Speaker 2: that found top Mom Casey Anthony's daughter Kelly and he
20:20
Speaker 2: called police and call police several times for them to
20:23
Speaker 2: come look at what he had found, and then he
20:26
Speaker 2: came under suspicion he was completely innocent, speaking of with
20:30
Speaker 2: her car? Will her car reveal any clues? Take a
20:33
Speaker 2: listen now ur cut seven.
20:35
Speaker 7: During the initial search again, deputies did locate her vehicle
20:39
Speaker 7: at the William Street entrance. The vehicle during the investigation
20:43
Speaker 7: was towed to our CID building up in Forest Hill
20:46
Speaker 7: where it will be processed for any in all evidence
20:49
Speaker 7: at this time. At that time last evening, in extensive
20:54
Speaker 7: search of the trail and surrounding area followed. I noticed
20:58
Speaker 7: a public was put out by this office by our
21:01
Speaker 7: officer Media Communications that has had over eleven thousand shares.
21:06
Speaker 2: So what if anything can be gained from the car,
21:09
Speaker 2: everyone on the panel will jump in. I think the
21:11
Speaker 2: first thing I'm going to be doing Vincent Hill is
21:14
Speaker 2: looking for any and all video surveillance. At a lot
21:17
Speaker 2: of trailhead parking lots. You do have a camera, but
21:21
Speaker 2: not the majority. The majority of trailheads are out in
21:25
Speaker 2: the wilderness and there's not going to be a surveillance camera.
21:28
Speaker 3: So where do we go from there? Let me direct
21:30
Speaker 3: everyone to the.
21:31
Speaker 2: Case of Alex Murdoch when he shot himself or had
21:35
Speaker 2: himself shot in the middle of a rural road. There
21:38
Speaker 2: wasn't a surveillance camera there, but we said, hey, what
21:41
Speaker 2: about the intersection, the closest intersection in Low and Bold.
21:45
Speaker 2: There is a camera at the church there on the
21:48
Speaker 2: corner where he turned? Who else turned in? One of
21:51
Speaker 2: the cars had been there an hour before and an
21:54
Speaker 2: hour after. Is there a gate to get access to
21:59
Speaker 2: the trail?
21:59
Speaker 3: Head had?
22:00
Speaker 2: Thank Scott Peterson, the idiot that drove his boat in
22:05
Speaker 2: and had to get a receipt when he dumped Lacey's body.
22:11
Speaker 2: That kind of interest, and the guy remembered him. Is
22:14
Speaker 2: there a gateway?
22:15
Speaker 3: What? Jump in? Please help me?
22:17
Speaker 13: So, Nancy, you know, I think not only do we
22:21
Speaker 13: want to look at whether there are cameras directly in
22:24
Speaker 13: the vicinity of that parking lot, but I'd like to see,
22:27
Speaker 13: you know what video we have of her going there?
22:32
Speaker 10: You know?
22:32
Speaker 8: Was she by her own?
22:33
Speaker 3: Yes?
22:33
Speaker 6: You know what?
22:34
Speaker 13: Was was she with somebody else?
22:36
Speaker 10: Was?
22:36
Speaker 13: You know? So that could help in this investigation?
22:39
Speaker 10: Yes, we know.
22:41
Speaker 3: Jump Karen start? How dare you interrupt? Vincent Hill? Go ahead?
22:46
Speaker 15: Sorry?
22:47
Speaker 2: Was that not Vincent who's that? Oh that was Mangino. Okay,
22:51
Speaker 2: how dare you interrupt? Matthew Mangina? Please go ahead?
22:55
Speaker 15: And I wanted to say something along with what he
22:57
Speaker 15: had to say, which is boyfriend who reported her missing
23:03
Speaker 15: and her boyfriend who said I believe that her car
23:06
Speaker 15: was there. How do we know that she actually decided
23:11
Speaker 15: she wanted to go jogging. Maybe he forced her if
23:14
Speaker 15: he was the one that reported her. We don't know
23:17
Speaker 15: that she's the one that drove up there, or even
23:20
Speaker 15: that she left her car there.
23:21
Speaker 3: Karen Stark, You're so right.
23:23
Speaker 2: He was the last one to see her, he was
23:25
Speaker 2: the one to find her car, he was the one
23:27
Speaker 2: to report her missing.
23:28
Speaker 3: So he's going to be looked at very carefully.
23:31
Speaker 8: What I don't want to speculate that I will say this.
23:33
Speaker 8: I went to the entrance of that park. There were
23:35
Speaker 8: snow cameras, there are apartments that turn into the trail.
23:39
Speaker 8: There may be ring door bells there, but there's also
23:42
Speaker 8: a group hub that she would have had to pass
23:44
Speaker 8: to park that car there. But I'm going to jump
23:46
Speaker 8: out of reporter anchor mode and go back to cop
23:48
Speaker 8: boat and investigate a motes for just a second, I'd
23:51
Speaker 8: be interested to learn if her keys were found with
23:54
Speaker 8: her body. If not, there's a problem, and I'd be
23:57
Speaker 8: interested and learn too the position of her driver's seat,
24:01
Speaker 8: because we can tell by looking at the pictures of
24:03
Speaker 8: Rachel she's very fetitue, very short, and if that seat
24:07
Speaker 8: is pushed forward, maybe she did drive there. But if
24:11
Speaker 8: the seat is back, the one thing I do at
24:12
Speaker 8: six foot one, when I get into a car that
24:15
Speaker 8: someone shorter than me is driving, it's natural for me
24:17
Speaker 8: to slide the seat back so I can actually fit
24:20
Speaker 8: and drive. So I think the car will tell a
24:23
Speaker 8: lot of clues even if there's no DNA, like just
24:27
Speaker 8: by the positioning of the seat, just by the positioning
24:30
Speaker 8: of the mirrors, because as drivers, even if we just
24:33
Speaker 8: committed a crime, that's something we do naturally.
24:35
Speaker 2: Hey, you know what, Vincent Hill, You're so right. And
24:38
Speaker 2: a siminar case on that is Tara Grinstead, the gorgeous
24:45
Speaker 2: high school teacher that goes missing.
24:47
Speaker 3: I tought her home with her mother.
24:49
Speaker 2: It was perfectly in order, except a lampshade was askew,
24:54
Speaker 2: the bed had a break in it, and there were
24:57
Speaker 2: pearls scattered across the floor and her seat. She was
25:01
Speaker 2: one of those people that three years on the car
25:03
Speaker 2: steels smells brand new, nothing is out of place, doesn't
25:08
Speaker 2: smell like McDonald's or hairspray or anything like that. And
25:13
Speaker 2: her car was covered in mud and the seat was
25:16
Speaker 2: pushed back, just like Vincent Hill is saying, and don't
25:21
Speaker 2: limit to the trailhead. What about the intersection before it?
25:24
Speaker 2: What about ed that brewery that's a business that's nearby.
25:27
Speaker 2: Was anybody in the car. It's the car called on surveillance.
25:30
Speaker 2: Think about Brian Coburger and the clerk at seven to
25:34
Speaker 2: eleven or whatever the convenience store was who went through
25:37
Speaker 2: reams and reams of convenience store video and sees a
25:41
Speaker 2: white launch of speeding by Bam Brian Coberger, who's a
25:46
Speaker 2: waiting trial in quadruple homicide.
25:49
Speaker 3: Yes, that that brewery that you just had jump in.
25:53
Speaker 10: I was going to say, someone addressed to you of
25:55
Speaker 10: the ring cameras or various other models of cameras at
25:58
Speaker 10: front doors, I would be really interested in checking out
26:01
Speaker 10: that there's many cameras at Rachel's house, oh, or her
26:05
Speaker 10: ex's house or a boyfriend.
26:06
Speaker 2: Hold on, I.
26:07
Speaker 3: Got to write that down.
26:08
Speaker 2: That's a great idea home cams to catch her leaving
26:11
Speaker 2: the house.
26:12
Speaker 3: Is anybody with her you're leaving the house?
26:14
Speaker 10: Also some future things to see if there's an ex
26:18
Speaker 10: or a boyfriend or a coworker, you know, having a
26:20
Speaker 10: disagreement on camera at the front door at any of
26:23
Speaker 10: these houses.
26:24
Speaker 2: You know, you should really consider going into law enforcement.
26:28
Speaker 2: Former Sheriff of Aaron Delacounty, Ron Baman, Yes, the home
26:32
Speaker 2: camera you're drawing right, Oh gosh, that's such a good idea, and.
26:37
Speaker 10: You addressed it briefly there. But State Highway Administration cameras
26:40
Speaker 10: are all over every intersection Maryland. And of course you
26:43
Speaker 10: had the gas stations of the convenience store cameras. But
26:46
Speaker 10: you've got to canas that neighborhood because those are the
26:48
Speaker 10: people that use that trail, and they guarantee you there's
26:52
Speaker 10: somebody that's sitting in their house that hasn't picked up
26:55
Speaker 10: the phone yet. Happens all the time. They're afraid, they're
26:58
Speaker 10: afraid to cute somebody. Do you knock the door? Then
27:01
Speaker 10: they fill it out.
27:02
Speaker 2: Here's what I saw, Ron Baateman, you're giving me a
27:04
Speaker 2: memory when the last time I was in Idaho on
27:08
Speaker 2: the four Beautiful University students that were slain. According to
27:13
Speaker 2: cops by Brian Coberger, I was standing outside the house.
27:15
Speaker 2: JACKI out if I told you about this. I was
27:17
Speaker 2: standing there looking around. We were about to do a
27:19
Speaker 2: shoot with you, Jack, and I looked over. I could
27:23
Speaker 2: look directly into the window of somebody's department. I could
27:27
Speaker 2: even see what their dishwashing liquid was dawn. And what
27:33
Speaker 2: I'm saying is, if anybody lives along that route, what
27:36
Speaker 2: if anything did they see? They may not even know
27:38
Speaker 2: they saw something, But what are cops doing right now?
27:41
Speaker 2: Take a listen hour cut thirteen.
27:43
Speaker 3: W jay Z.
27:44
Speaker 4: When asked if there was a threat to the public,
27:46
Speaker 4: the sheriff told w j Z, I put.
27:48
Speaker 7: The comment out there that says we don't believe there's
27:51
Speaker 7: a threat to the committee. I can't do it.
27:53
Speaker 4: He says there will be extra patrols along the trail
27:55
Speaker 4: while the investigation continues, and reminds people to practice caution
28:00
Speaker 4: and stale alert. He wants anyone with information about Warren
28:03
Speaker 4: to come forward.
28:04
Speaker 7: If you see something that it doesn't make you feel comfortable,
28:06
Speaker 7: if you feel suspicious about it, take out your phone
28:09
Speaker 7: and call nine.
28:10
Speaker 8: To one one.
28:10
Speaker 2: Okay, that tells me volumes. I want to say there's
28:14
Speaker 2: not a threat, but I can't say that. When the
28:17
Speaker 2: cops tell you there's not a threat, that means it's
28:20
Speaker 2: a targeted attack and they think they know who it is.
28:23
Speaker 2: There's a big screw up in Coburger when the cops
28:27
Speaker 2: came out and said there's not a threat, but the
28:29
Speaker 2: killer was in fact still walking free. That's when they
28:32
Speaker 2: thought it was a targeted attack on these four victims.
28:35
Speaker 10: I got something for you, didn't Who said.
28:37
Speaker 3: Jumping in Vincent? Is that you or Bateman?
28:39
Speaker 10: That was me? Go ahead, that was me. I just
28:41
Speaker 10: got a question that really bothers me. Why is a
28:46
Speaker 10: mother of five going out for a job without her
28:49
Speaker 10: kids at six pm on a Saturday night?
28:52
Speaker 3: Who is this talking?
28:54
Speaker 10: Ron Bateman? I'm sorry?
28:55
Speaker 3: Is this Bateman? Okay?
28:56
Speaker 2: Ron Bateman? I need to drag you into twenty twenty two.
29:01
Speaker 2: Guess what, women go jogging when they can. How do
29:06
Speaker 2: I know if there was an aunt or the boyfriend
29:08
Speaker 2: or whoever with the children. And guess what, Sometimes we
29:12
Speaker 2: go jogging in shorts in a jogging bra I want
29:15
Speaker 2: you to sit down when you're the rest of it.
29:17
Speaker 2: And sometimes we don't worry that we're gonna get raped
29:20
Speaker 2: and murdered. So at six pm, for Pete's sake, I'm
29:24
Speaker 2: still going strong at six pm. To me, that's like
29:27
Speaker 2: one pm. Please do not say that again. Bateman, Spanky, Spanky?
29:32
Speaker 2: Why was she out jogging because she felt like, excuse me?
29:36
Speaker 2: Are we in USA here? Or am I in communist China?
29:39
Speaker 3: Oh? We're still in the USA, so I can go
29:42
Speaker 3: out and jog at six pm. I think we're Jackie
29:47
Speaker 3: is defending you. F yi go.
29:50
Speaker 13: Saver kids with him because that's usually an.
29:52
Speaker 2: Oh, so you're gonna take five children that are toddlers
29:55
Speaker 2: with you when you jog?
29:57
Speaker 3: Oh? Okay, Baateman, how many children do you have?
30:00
Speaker 10: I have three.
30:02
Speaker 2: Do you ever take them jogging or walking when they
30:04
Speaker 2: were two or three years old?
30:06
Speaker 10: I actually did take them on at Rent Larkley.
30:08
Speaker 3: So hiking, hiking, but not jogging.
30:11
Speaker 2: How did you ever think this mom might want to
30:13
Speaker 2: break she's got five children?
30:15
Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, Okay, I'm going to quit beating on you
30:18
Speaker 3: for just a moment, even though it's a lot of fun.
30:22
Speaker 2: I want to talk about somebody else, not a suspect,
30:26
Speaker 2: the boyfriend take a listen hour cut to our friends
30:30
Speaker 2: at Crime online.
30:31
Speaker 16: Thirty seven year old mother of five Rachel Marin and
30:33
Speaker 16: twenty seven year old Richard Tobin announced they were a
30:36
Speaker 16: couple via Facebook. Just four days after the relationship announcement,
30:40
Speaker 16: Rachel is missing and Richard Tobin is defending his past.
30:44
Speaker 16: Tobin is the one who called to report his new
30:46
Speaker 16: girlfriend missing at eleven thirty pm Saturday night, and it
30:49
Speaker 16: was Tobin who told police where Marin's car was parked
30:53
Speaker 16: and that she wasn't in the car. Tobin is a
30:55
Speaker 16: decade younger than Rachel Marin and has a lengthy criminal
30:58
Speaker 16: past and felt the need to address the speculation and
31:02
Speaker 16: in a Facebook post said quote, I love Rachel, I
31:05
Speaker 16: would never do anything to her. Yes, I have a past,
31:09
Speaker 16: but I also have fifteen months clean and have changed
31:12
Speaker 16: as a person.
31:13
Speaker 1: Please Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
31:31
Speaker 3: Vincent.
31:33
Speaker 2: Vincent Hill is joining me from Fox forty five Baltimore.
31:38
Speaker 2: I did a little research on the boyfriend and what
31:41
Speaker 2: I found is he doesn't just have a past. He
31:45
Speaker 2: has fourteen arrests since twenty fourteen, including drugs, assault, disorderly conduct,
31:53
Speaker 2: refusing arrest. I was told domestic what do you know?
31:57
Speaker 8: Yeah, Nancy, I mean just laid out his rap sheet
32:01
Speaker 8: if you.
32:02
Speaker 3: Will, and you know I did.
32:04
Speaker 8: Yeah, to go back to my cop base. You know,
32:08
Speaker 8: when you're the person to call nine on one, when
32:10
Speaker 8: you're the person to find the car, when you're injecting
32:13
Speaker 8: yourself in an investigation, certainly as an investigator, you want
32:17
Speaker 8: to question those things. You know, like you touched on
32:22
Speaker 8: her being a woman walking in running in the park
32:25
Speaker 8: with shorts and a sports brawl. I mean, think about this, Nancy,
32:28
Speaker 8: she was a beautiful woman. At six o'clock, the sun
32:31
Speaker 8: is still up. I'm thinking one hundred people would have
32:34
Speaker 8: noticed her running through that park just because eyes glazed
32:37
Speaker 8: on beauty. Right, So you know, we don't have a
32:40
Speaker 8: bunch of people coming forward to say, oh, yeah, I
32:43
Speaker 8: saw a running in this trail at six o'clock. Then
32:45
Speaker 8: there's a problem with the statements made by the boyfriend.
32:49
Speaker 2: Okay, why do you say that there is a problem
32:53
Speaker 2: with statements made by the boyfriend?
32:55
Speaker 8: Well, I mean think about it, Nancy, she did go
32:57
Speaker 8: to this trail, she was on a run. Yes, she's
33:00
Speaker 8: a very noticeable person. People would have noticed. Yes, I
33:04
Speaker 8: saw her.
33:06
Speaker 3: An ugly bag like me. Is that where you're trying
33:08
Speaker 3: to say thanks, go ahead.
33:10
Speaker 8: I'm not saying that they wouldn't notice me running through
33:12
Speaker 8: the I'm just saying she, well, she would probably catch
33:19
Speaker 8: eyes if she was in that trail, right, So as
33:22
Speaker 8: an investigator, I want people to come forward and say, yes,
33:25
Speaker 8: I saw her at six fifteen. I was walking my dog.
33:28
Speaker 8: She ran past me. She smiled and said hello. If
33:31
Speaker 8: I don't see that, then I have to go back
33:34
Speaker 8: even further than six o'clock and figure out where Rachel
33:38
Speaker 8: was leading up until the time of that nine one
33:41
Speaker 8: one call.
33:42
Speaker 13: So Nancy, I would just comment, yeah, okay, he's the boyfriend,
33:49
Speaker 13: and you're always going to look at the boyfriend the husband.
33:53
Speaker 13: It's always going to be a suspect, at least initially.
33:56
Speaker 13: And there are some things that really, you know, seem
34:00
Speaker 13: inconsistent with someone who has nothing to do with this,
34:03
Speaker 13: based on his statements and other things. But I think
34:07
Speaker 13: you also can't rush the judgment and put blinders on,
34:10
Speaker 13: and sometimes that happened. One of the things that I
34:13
Speaker 13: would want to look into is you know what relationships
34:17
Speaker 13: were either he or her in prior to this relationship,
34:22
Speaker 13: because one of the things that's striking is just on
34:24
Speaker 13: the first of August he puts something up saying that
34:28
Speaker 13: he was in a relationship with her. Did that offend
34:32
Speaker 13: a former girlfriend or offend a former boyfriend?
34:35
Speaker 3: Is this man Gena still speaking? Yes, it is okay.
34:38
Speaker 2: Matthew Manngina joining me, former prosecutor of felonies including homicides,
34:42
Speaker 2: now defense attorney and author at Mattmanngino dot com. Matt,
34:47
Speaker 2: You're absolutely correct. I think the mode of homicide, cause
34:51
Speaker 2: of death. Let's just say, what if somebody snapped her neck,
34:54
Speaker 2: we can safely assume a woman didn't do that if
34:58
Speaker 2: she was bludgeoned dead by let's just say, I think
35:01
Speaker 2: of Ted Bundy. He actually bludgeon people with a log.
35:06
Speaker 2: Depending on the motive death, statistically, you may be able
35:10
Speaker 2: to exclude a female killer.
35:11
Speaker 3: I don't think this was a female killer, but you're right.
35:17
Speaker 2: Typically the investigation starts with the love object, the husband,
35:22
Speaker 2: the ex husband, boyfriend, ex boyfriend, stalker, co male coworker,
35:28
Speaker 2: and then you move out. Of course, there's always the
35:32
Speaker 2: weirdo like Lisa Nowak.
35:34
Speaker 3: Isn't that her name? Jackie?
35:36
Speaker 2: Literally an astronaut that traveled across country to try to
35:39
Speaker 2: kill her love rival. It does happen, Doctor Tim Gallagher
35:42
Speaker 2: joining US Medical examder from the State of Florida.
35:46
Speaker 3: Dr Gallagher.
35:47
Speaker 2: They walk upon the scene and they immediately say, this
35:51
Speaker 2: is a homicide. What does that tell you, Doctor Gallagher?
35:54
Speaker 9: What it tells me is that there was something at
35:56
Speaker 9: the scene that was probably bloody. But you know, it
36:00
Speaker 9: makes me question, you know, who is the person who
36:02
Speaker 9: made that call, you know, and what are their qualifications?
36:04
Speaker 9: You know, how are they able to come to this conclusion?
36:08
Speaker 9: You know, a bloody scene, especially an outdoor bloody scene,
36:11
Speaker 9: especially an outdoor bloody scene in an area that is
36:15
Speaker 9: secreted away, such as a tunnel. You know, how do
36:18
Speaker 9: we know that it's not an animal attack, a pit
36:21
Speaker 9: bull attack, you know, something something of that nature.
36:24
Speaker 10: You know.
36:24
Speaker 9: So I think that, you know, it's a good case
36:28
Speaker 9: for the medical examiner to really spend a lot of
36:32
Speaker 9: time on because you know, the the nature of the killing,
36:37
Speaker 9: whether it be bludgeon to death or whether it be
36:41
Speaker 9: a sharp instrument being used. You know, a lot of
36:43
Speaker 9: things can mimic that, especially in the outdoors. You know,
36:46
Speaker 9: what's you victim of an accident? Did you get hit
36:48
Speaker 9: by a golf cart? You know that may have been
36:50
Speaker 9: going through that tunnel too. You know, so these are
36:53
Speaker 9: questions that the medical examiner is a very qualified to answer.
36:56
Speaker 3: Well, I didn't see that answer coming, but you're absolutely right. Guys.
37:00
Speaker 2: We're focusing on for a moment anyway, the boyfriend who
37:04
Speaker 2: announced on social media there are a couple just four
37:07
Speaker 2: days before Rachel.
37:08
Speaker 3: Is found dead.
37:10
Speaker 2: But yes, that's standard operating procedure to look at him first.
37:15
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean he's guilty, and he's not been named
37:18
Speaker 2: a suspect. Can I remind everybody of Eliza Fletcher? Listen
37:21
Speaker 2: our cut twenty two our friends at WRG.
37:24
Speaker 17: Fletcher was jogging down Central Avenue around four point thirty
37:27
Speaker 17: this morning when investigators say she was approached by someone
37:31
Speaker 17: who forced her into a dark colored suv and drove off.
37:35
Speaker 3: You don't want to hear that that's going on. We
37:40
Speaker 3: want to find her. We don't know what's going on.
37:42
Speaker 17: Hart Robinson is a friend of Fletcher and got the
37:45
Speaker 17: news this morning and immediately came to the area of
37:48
Speaker 17: Central Avenue and Zach Curling Street where she was last seen,
37:52
Speaker 17: where everybody's desperately looking for it.
37:53
Speaker 2: Eliza Fletcher, loving mother teacher, was killed by a man.
37:59
Speaker 2: According to murdered assaulted and murdered. Cleotha Abstin, who had
38:04
Speaker 2: never met her before, is like a predator. And then,
38:07
Speaker 2: of course I can never forget the Long Island joggres.
38:10
Speaker 2: She is called Carina Vitrano. Takeolasnower, cut twenty six from GMA.
38:17
Speaker 18: New York. Police are on the hunt for a killer.
38:19
Speaker 3: Right now, this evidence of strangulation asphyxiation.
38:22
Speaker 18: Overnight a vigil for thirty year old Karina Vitrano went
38:26
Speaker 18: out for a jog around five o'clock Tuesday and never
38:29
Speaker 18: came home. Concerned, her father called police and went out
38:32
Speaker 18: looking for her on a path they often ran together.
38:35
Speaker 3: Could imagine his angst at that point. We found her
38:37
Speaker 3: face down in the ground. We immediately called the MS.
38:41
Speaker 18: The Toronto was found face down just a few blocks
38:44
Speaker 18: away from her New York home.
38:45
Speaker 2: Found by her own father. I man I now consider
38:49
Speaker 2: a friend Phil the Tranto. She was murdered by twenty
38:54
Speaker 2: year old Channel Lewis, whom she had never met, And
38:59
Speaker 2: of course Molly Tibbitts Take a List hour cut twenty
39:03
Speaker 2: nine from ABC.
39:04
Speaker 19: For the first time, we are hearing from the man
39:07
Speaker 19: who believes he could be the last person to have
39:09
Speaker 19: seen Molly Tibbitts. Before her mysterious disappearance, Devin Riley says,
39:14
Speaker 19: the University of Iowa student went jogging past his house
39:17
Speaker 19: about eight pm July eighteenth.
39:19
Speaker 3: She jogged down the street up the hill and there's
39:23
Speaker 3: just nothing of it until I heard somebody was missing,
39:25
Speaker 3: and then they like really hit me, and it's like
39:28
Speaker 3: I haven't seen that runner since then.
39:29
Speaker 19: He called the police with the tip after seeing her
39:32
Speaker 19: picture on the news.
39:33
Speaker 2: Molly Tibbots was murdered by a man she had never met,
39:37
Speaker 2: who then dragged her off and hear her body in
39:39
Speaker 2: a cornfield. His name Christian Rivera. What is the truth
39:44
Speaker 2: about the disappearance and death of this beautiful mom of
39:48
Speaker 2: five children now sentenced to live without mom? We wait
39:54
Speaker 2: as just as unfolds.
39:55
Speaker 3: If you have.
39:56
Speaker 2: Information, please dial for one zero eight three six five
40:01
Speaker 2: four three zero.
40:03
Speaker 3: Goodbye for
40:09
Speaker 10: Mhm.