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The Shawshank Redemption · Citizen Frame

• 0:00
  Music.
• 0:21
  I don't think you ought to be doing this to yourself, Andy. This is just shitty pipe dreams.
• 0:26
  I mean, Mexico is way the hell down there, and you're in here,
• 0:29
  and that's the way it is. Yeah, right. That's the way it is.
• 0:35
  It's down there, and I'm in here.
• 0:40
  I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really.
• 0:45
  Get busy living or get busy dying,
• 0:53
  wow a little cold there people what a dick what a dick dry your eyes so.
• 1:10
  This movie nominated for a bunch of... Everyone thinks this is a cult classic. It's not.
• 1:17
  What defines a cult classic is movies that are poorly received and poor box
• 1:22
  office. That's a cult classic.
• 1:25
  This box officer wasn't great, but it certainly wasn't poorly received.
• 1:30
  This just found its footing on DVD and so forth.
• 1:34
  This little film, if you've ever seen this film in the theater,
• 1:36
  and walking out, they're going, wow. And it still affects me to this day.
• 1:40
  It is one of the only films that I do own and I could be sitting at home,
• 1:46
  And it's on TV. I won't get up to put the movie on in my 4K player because I
• 1:51
  feel like I might miss something on the TV version that you might add to it.
• 1:55
  I do that with movies as well.
• 1:58
  It's one of those films that rewatchability is endless.
• 2:03
  Absolutely endless. There's this survey. I can't remember the whole thing.
• 2:08
  But two of the questions are, you're shipwrecked, you're trapped on an island, right?
• 2:15
  You could pick one album, one book, and one movie, and the album can't be a greatest hits.
• 2:22
  It's got to be a traditional album.
• 2:27
  And it's a great question because I remember I was given that question back
• 2:32
  in the 90s, and I would always go, Halloween, Halloween, Halloween,
• 2:36
  Halloween, Halloween, because Halloween is, you know.
• 2:39
  But as you get older, you realize there's other genres. No shit.
• 2:43
  And so it's tough to put Halloween in that pedestal without looking at others.
• 2:52
  And also, it's about what you get out of the film every time you watch it.
• 2:56
  Even if I know Halloween in the back of my hand, I'll always catch something new.
• 3:00
  That's the wonderful film about most of the films I love on my list.
• 3:05
  The replayability value is there, and you'll always get something new out of
• 3:09
  it. And it's like watching it for the first time.
• 3:12
  That's what replayability and to me
• 3:15
  and that's something that you would bring on
• 3:17
  an island with you but there's one
• 3:20
  film that i have to say
• 3:23
  is the greatest film ever produced i
• 3:27
  mean ever produced that's over the ones we talked about just recently we talked
• 3:33
  jaws as a masterpiece we talked it's wonderful life we've talked die hard we've
• 3:37
  talked raiders we talked halloween we've talked about them all wonderful match
• 3:42
  Jason takes Manhattan that's still better that's still a classic,
• 3:47
  I would take that on a desert island with me along with I'm the best of the
• 3:51
  Beatles but no best of I know it was a joke it's an Alan Partridge reference
• 3:55
  but you won't get that nobody does nobody does Alan Partridge fans yeah one you.
• 4:03
  But that question goes so my answer to that question and I can say confidently,
• 4:10
  it's Shawshank Redemption.
• 4:13
  This movie is just a masterpiece in all forms.
• 4:20
  You can't, this is the number one love movie on IABD.
• 4:23
  This is the film that I think everyone goes, I saw it and I love it.
• 4:29
  Anyone who hates Shawshank Redemption, you're going to hell.
• 4:32
  So there you go. It's not that good. I'm only joking. And yeah, it's great.
• 4:37
  Like, you know. Yeah, I mean, I haven't seen every single film ever made.
• 4:41
  But I would say in terms of greatest ever, at very least it will be up there.
• 4:49
  Especially having re-watched it again here for this podcast.
• 4:52
  The film, again, Stephen King, based on a short story.
• 4:57
  Rita Hayworth and Shawshank.
• 5:00
  And it's directed by, will be a long-time collaborator and again,
• 5:06
  nominated director for multiple King adaptations. This is Frank Terrypont.
• 5:12
  Like we just talked about Mike Flanagan and I mentioned in that about Mike Flanagan's
• 5:18
  a horror director at heart, always
• 5:20
  will be, but he did something a little different with Life of Chuck.
• 5:24
  Again, if you haven't seen Life of Chuck, please see it.
• 5:27
  Well same thing with our boy here frank darapont frank darapont
• 5:30
  created the walking dead frank darapont was a producer of hell night he was
• 5:34
  producer on elm street three he wrote he wrote the night around street three
• 5:37
  he did the blob remake with chuck russell um they're all good they're all good
• 5:42
  buddies he did a great made for tv film guys please watch this film it's so good,
• 5:50
  it's called Buried Alive I believe it's his directorial debut.
• 5:57
  Directorial debut I think he did the Night Shift collection short story in that
• 6:02
  in the early 80s but he did this movie called Buried Alive with Tim Matheson
• 6:07
  and Jennifer Jason Leigh it's so fun so fun it's not reinvented the wheel by
• 6:13
  any means but I revisit it quite a few times and I really enjoy it,
• 6:17
  that's kind of big that's his big footing that's his directorial kind of,
• 6:22
  This is what I want to do for a living. And then after that,
• 6:24
  he went on to do, obviously, Shawshank Redemption.
• 6:28
  I think he also was involved with Mick Garris on The Fly 2, which I actually
• 6:33
  like. I think he wrote that.
• 6:35
  Well, Mick Garris wrote. There was different drafts of it. I know that.
• 6:39
  But I know he was involved in some way. Yeah. So it was Mick Garris.
• 6:43
  And I like it. I think it's underrated. I think it's a really good monster.
• 6:45
  I like The Fly 2, but I can't watch it because of the one scene.
• 6:48
  I won't watch it anymore. The dog? Yeah, I can't watch it. It's heartbreaking.
• 6:52
  I'm sorry. That's sort of the point. I'm sorry. There's a scene in The Fly 2
• 6:56
  where a dog gets turned inside out pretty much and is still alive and the poor thing is in pain.
• 7:01
  Trevor likes, Trevor's okay with that.
• 7:04
  Well, I know it's not real. See, I can tell. Yeah, but don't you have.
• 7:09
  What do they put in place when you don't have a heart? What do they put in there?
• 7:14
  What is that? It's just like an ancient talisman that resurrects demons.
• 7:20
  He pissed, pissed all over the dance sequence in Life of Chuck.
• 7:28
  Life of Chuck, pissed all over it.
• 7:30
  I wanted cursed books. I wanted evil killer possessed trees.
• 7:36
  You know, I love crafty and monsters. I am well versed. Not Billy Elliot.
• 7:41
  I'm well versed in cinema.
• 7:45
  I don't have tunnel vision. Okay, Roger Lieber. But I know who does have tunnel
• 7:51
  vision, and his name was Trevor.
• 7:53
  Right, yeah, right. Yeah. So let's jump into... Oh, yeah, so my reflecting butt
• 7:58
  went on to do an underrated gem called The Majestic, but he did The Green Mile,
• 8:04
  which was a big Oscar, another Oscar one.
• 8:07
  Here's the funny thing about Star Trek Redemption.
• 8:12
  I hate Forrest Gump. Fucking hate it with all my passion.
• 8:17
  I think it's crucially overrated as well. But here's the funny thing is,
• 8:22
  but now I like it. I've grown up. Why?
• 8:25
  Because here's the thing. It's clever. It's fun. But it is overrated. Still stick by that.
• 8:31
  But the reason I hate the film so much, it beats Shawshank Redemption for Best
• 8:35
  Picture, Best Actor, Best Supporting Actor.
• 8:38
  Shawshank was nominated for all these. and it didn't win anything.
• 8:42
  No awards because Forrest Gump took everything.
• 8:45
  Pulp Fiction as well. Beat it for the script and stuff, which is fair enough.
• 8:51
  But, so, no. We saw Jackie Redemption should have got everything. Period.
• 8:56
  Besides, Best Supporting Actor went to Kevin Spacey for Usual Suspects.
• 9:01
  Gotta give Usual Suspects due. And yes, it's Kevin- Is that the same year? Yeah.
• 9:05
  Good year at cinema. That, so, just to let you all know, I love Usual Suspects.
• 9:12
  I don't give a fuck if you don't like Kevin Spacey. All right? He's a good actor.
• 9:15
  So anyways, back to Shawshank Redemption. It should have won.
• 9:20
  So I hated Forrest Gump for years.
• 9:24
  Now everyone loves Shawshank. I am okay with watching Forrest Gump, you know.
• 9:29
  I don't think you deserved all the awards you got.
• 9:34
  I think it's silly. I think it's clever. It's a clever film,
• 9:38
  but it's not best picture stuff.
• 9:41
  Yeah, I mean, I always thought it was very overrated, and it was, yeah.
• 9:46
  Tom Hanks, incidentally, I was just about to say, was actually offered the role
• 9:50
  of Andy Dufresne, but he couldn't accept it because he was filming Forrest Gump.
• 9:57
  Instead of you know helping Red get out of prison he was Jenny,
• 10:03
  Jenny you grab my buttocks yeah Tom Cruise was offered the role as well Cleaning
• 10:09
  is what Harrison Ford, Paul Newman, Gene Hacken Robert Redford and Robert Duvall these guys were all,
• 10:14
  supposed to be Red I would love to see any of those guys play Red Red was actually
• 10:19
  a white Irishman with grey hair and so there's actually a line in the film He
• 10:25
  goes, Red, how'd you get that name?
• 10:26
  Well, simply because I'm Irish, I guess.
• 10:29
  Yeah. That's just a joke because they recast the entire character as a black man. Yeah.
• 10:35
  So that's why that line is in there. And they kept the name Red.
• 10:39
  Although to sort of cover it, they have Red's film name as real name and the film as Alice Redding.
• 10:48
  It's always been that. Yeah. That's the name of the character.
• 10:51
  I would have to double check the book but I know that he is a white Irish guy
• 10:58
  in the book and it's actually taken,
• 11:01
  you know, it's written in first person from his perspective but
• 11:04
  I'm not even too sure if it actually gives his full name in the book but I do
• 11:10
  know that it goes into more about why Red is in prison in Shawshank essentially
• 11:15
  because he killed his wife but also for like an insurance scam thing.
• 11:22
  He basically clipped the brakes on her car and also inadvertently killed the
• 11:28
  neighbor and her neighbor's infant son because the wife had given them a lift.
• 11:34
  It doesn't really go into detail in the film. You can say that about Brooks' character.
• 11:39
  Yes. In the book, Brooks who's a sweet old man, he actually ended up killing
• 11:44
  his wife and child after he lost a poker game. That's right. Yes. Yeah.
• 11:50
  I don't think the film was about that, though. That's why I,
• 11:52
  you know, we talk about Tim Robbins, the Andy character,
• 11:58
  and I've watched this again and with Morgan Freeman narrating it.
• 12:03
  I have to say, this movie is not about Andy. This is about Red.
• 12:07
  Well, I was actually on this viewing of it.
• 12:10
  The title, which works, I mean, all good titles work on more than one level.
• 12:15
  But the actual redemption of the title is more Red's redemption as opposed to Andy's.
• 12:21
  You know? I mean, after we see what happens to Andy and why he gets put in jail
• 12:25
  for supposedly killing his wife and lover.
• 12:28
  Yeah. And he's, yeah, he's innocent.
• 12:30
  Thank you. I wasn't going to say that at all, by the way. everybody knows I
• 12:34
  wasn't going to say that but you can go ahead and interrupt me if you want well
• 12:37
  I just have but everybody knows that anyway yeah you interrupt me all the time exactly,
• 12:43
  what what's a twat it's like a poish twat you know so so Sunday morning fuck off.
• 12:55
  Yeah because once you're introduced Andy and his crime and his life imprisonment
• 12:59
  for both deaths for both deaths we move on with Glenn Cloutu,
• 13:03
  the first parole hearing of Red.
• 13:06
  Then the movie's told after he's, and every time you see a parole hearing,
• 13:13
  after he meets Andy, his character becomes more sympathetic toward what has
• 13:18
  happened and what he's done. He softens.
• 13:20
  And that's because of Andy. Yes.
• 13:23
  And so it's really Red's redemption is what this film is about.
• 13:27
  And Andy is even arguably almost in a way, I mean, a Christ-like figure within
• 13:36
  Shawshank, you know, jail,
• 13:38
  because he doesn't just redeem sort of or help to redeem Red or put Red on his road to redemption.
• 13:45
  But there's all of the other sort of prisoners that he's friendly with as well
• 13:50
  he changes them all due to his influence in there so there are Christ-like sort
• 13:56
  of allusions there as well as the Count of Monte Cristo,
• 14:01
  I thought Boggs would have been more like, sorry, that's a bad joke. Oh, that's bad.
• 14:06
  I was just kidding, people. Boggs is vile. Yeah.
• 14:10
  But that was a bad joke. So just to get this clear, right?
• 14:15
  Mr. I Have a Heart loves the character of Boggs. No, no, no.
• 14:21
  But let's talk about the cast before we get really into this.
• 14:25
  Tim Robbins is Andy. Morgan Freeman is Red. I love seeing him.
• 14:28
  Bob Gunton always plays a dick. Always brilliant in this.
• 14:31
  Yes, he is. He's the warden. I always like to see him. He is in all Frank Darapont stuff, most of it.
• 14:37
  William Sadler as Haywood. Yes, the Grim Reaper from Bill and Ted.
• 14:40
  We always like, you always go to that one. What the fuck? Nobody cares about
• 14:44
  Bill and Ted. That's what I remember him from, you know.
• 14:47
  Clancy Brown as Captain Hadley. The Corgan. Bill Bellows as Tommy. Mark Ralston as Boggs.
• 14:53
  James Whitmore as Brooks. And then you got the gang that kind of hang out with everybody.
• 14:56
  Floyd Jigger. It's Jigger. J-I-G-G-E-R Skeet, Ernie, Snooze,
• 15:03
  and then we got the Melty Man from Robocop who plays Guard Trout Paul McCrean,
• 15:08
  yeah Emile from Robocop pops up very great,
• 15:11
  I think he maybe had more scenes that were cut in the editing room but yeah,
• 15:15
  so he's basically in one scene I was like, because I haven't seen this in a
• 15:18
  lot of years and I've forgotten that Emile from Robocop, you know,
• 15:22
  pops up so yeah, he's our coach yeah,
• 15:25
  he kind of shows up with a new crowd,
• 15:28
  the new guards kick in once the warden's gone and crap like that.
• 15:31
  And so, yeah, he is a smaller part. I wanted more of me, Melton, you know.
• 15:37
  So, the opening scene, the piggyback on what you just said a second ago about.
• 15:44
  How he's there as a Christ figure almost.
• 15:48
  Yes. To get these prisoners to forgive themselves and to redeem what they have
• 15:55
  left as a human being. Yes.
• 15:58
  And the opening scene would be perfect when Fat Ass, sorry, that's his name.
• 16:04
  He doesn't have a character name.
• 16:05
  When they have the pick, who's going to break first? Yes.
• 16:09
  And the Fat Ass breaks, and the poor bastard gets beaten to death by the prick Hadley.
• 16:17
  And the next day, Sadler gets off.
• 16:21
  He wins off of smokes and stuff like that because he made the call and he asked,
• 16:27
  hey, how's my horse doing? And one guy says he died.
• 16:31
  The doctor couldn't get to him in time from all the beatings.
• 16:34
  Yeah. And the table goes quiet.
• 16:36
  Because right there, first you're kind of like, what a bunch of dicks.
• 16:39
  I can't believe they're rooting for this, blah, blah.
• 16:40
  But once that table goes quiet, they didn't mean any harm to come to that kid.
• 16:45
  It's the prison life, the boredom of prison life, the bet on anything.
• 16:48
  Yeah, but it also showed these guys aren't,
• 16:51
  They aren't complete fosters. Yeah. Yeah. As you think, when you first kind of meet him.
• 16:57
  And Andy makes the comment, what was his name?
• 17:01
  Just, well, I would like to know the man's name. And our boy,
• 17:06
  Sather, fronts him going, why do you care? What does that matter? Yeah.
• 17:11
  I just want to know his name. It frustrated him a bit because he feels kind
• 17:16
  of, you know, in that scene, he feels kind of accountable for what happened
• 17:20
  to him, Even though it wasn't his fault, he feels accountable because he put the bet on him.
• 17:25
  And defensively, he jumps to the, sure, what does it matter?
• 17:28
  He's dead now type thing. Yeah, let's not talk about it. Let's move on. Yeah. Like, yeah.
• 17:33
  But Andy wants to give him the dignity of a name, or at least them knowing his name.
• 17:38
  But that's, and that's, that's the film. That's the same thing when he meets Tommy.
• 17:44
  He gets him a college, he gets him a high school education. Yes.
• 17:48
  You've got. He redeems Tommy. Tommy.
• 17:50
  Yeah, you've got Red, that alone. You've got Brooks getting the library rebuilt. Yes.
• 17:58
  You've got, and getting them reading and educating them. You've got,
• 18:01
  you know, you've got all these characters that he walks in and helps.
• 18:06
  It's almost like if Andy had a purpose.
• 18:10
  There is a scene later on where Andy talks about what has happened to him.
• 18:14
  And he's saying it's just a hell of a lot of bad luck, like a sort of hurricane of bad luck.
• 18:20
  But no, it's almost like the universe has put him there for a purpose to basically,
• 18:28
  well, a couple of purposes actually, to save these guys' souls essentially,
• 18:32
  but also to bring down Shawshank and all the corruption and all the bad shit that's going on in it.
• 18:38
  Yeah, because during, during.
• 18:44
  You know, you can play it as depressed, I suppose, But during the whole court
• 18:48
  scene, when Andy's being questioned in a trial, it's very quiet,
• 18:56
  very reserved, but emotionless.
• 18:57
  In fact, this is explained more in the novella.
• 19:00
  So that's where even the judge says that you're emotionless.
• 19:06
  You don't care what you've done.
• 19:08
  That's why he gets pretty much everything thrown at him. And he doesn't smile for him.
• 19:13
  I'd probably say about 95% of the film. I know that.
• 19:16
  The only time you see Andy smile is when he has done something good for a fellow
• 19:22
  man. Yeah, but the beers.
• 19:24
  The beers would be the first time he really smiles. And the music.
• 19:27
  When Tommy, he's in the hole, and the guy says, hey, the kid passed, he smiles.
• 19:35
  Andy's personality is explained more by Red in the novella, where he's basically,
• 19:40
  it's not that he's emotionless.
• 19:42
  He's just very sort of
• 19:45
  he doesn't let his emotions out like you
• 19:48
  know maybe most people would in fact he even
• 19:51
  and he in the film and he even states it later on
• 19:54
  saying that's why his wife had an affair with
• 19:58
  the golf guy because he was too closed up emotionally
• 20:01
  and he was never he never told her he loved her
• 20:03
  that type of thing even though he did he was just quite sort of he didn't let
• 20:09
  his emotions go sort of go out of him easily and so that's why he blames himself
• 20:15
  on killing his wife even though he didn't pull the trigger it was because he
• 20:19
  was emotionally detached from her but he still loved her,
• 20:23
  very powerful that's true but yeah I know I know,
• 20:28
  let's talk about our boy Boggs right well acted I have to say I like Ralston
• 20:36
  he's good Mark Ralston we know him as I forgot his character name in Aliens.
• 20:40
  Yeah, he's one of the sort of, the Marines, isn't he? He's the badass.
• 20:44
  He always hangs out with Fesquez.
• 20:46
  Yeah. And they got the big guns. That's right. Yeah. And he gets the acid in the face. Yeah.
• 20:52
  He gets a lot more of that acid in the face in this one. Well, the sisters? Yeah.
• 20:59
  Oh, I'm woo! Second cup of coffee. I'm being kind of crude.
• 21:03
  Well, I would say that this film has been criticized in some quarters for being,
• 21:09
  not brutal enough, you know, in terms of what real life prison life would be like.
• 21:15
  I think it's brutal, but this certainly does back it up and back up in terms
• 21:21
  of the brutality of prison life to a large extent,
• 21:25
  you know, I mean, it's not, which is a brutal British prison drama where you
• 21:30
  do see the rapes and it's fucking, I'm talking about, I mean,
• 21:34
  brutal, but here, it's handled well.
• 21:39
  Who would want to watch that? You have to watch it to understand it I'm not
• 21:43
  going to watch something like that Why would I want to watch Rape?
• 21:46
  I would defend it and say it's not gratuitous It's more to highlight the brutality
• 21:51
  Of this system This does it without showing anything I know that there but they're
• 21:56
  different films And they both work in their own sort of context,
• 22:00
  Nah you can take it I don't care But I hear you I mean tweets to their own,
• 22:05
  You like prison-ranked movies. That's cool. In context, they both work, but in their own way.
• 22:14
  Yeah, I bet they do. Yeah.
• 22:16
  Watch Scum. I'm not watching Scum. I'm not watching it.
• 22:20
  Ray Winston's first film. I like Ray Winston, but I'm not watching a film.
• 22:26
  It's not just about that, obviously.
• 22:28
  I know, but they just do it for shock value. There's no artistic...
• 22:32
  How do you know that? You haven't seen it? How can you say that?
• 22:34
  You're not going to say it.
• 22:35
  I don't need to know. Well, then how can you say it? How can you say it has
• 22:37
  no artistic value? I'm not going to say that when people are being raped.
• 22:39
  I'm sorry. It's just not my thing.
• 22:41
  You have to watch the film. They'll understand it in context.
• 22:43
  Oh, I can understand the rape better once I see it in context.
• 22:45
  Yes, exactly. That's what I'm saying.
• 22:48
  There's certain things you shouldn't show on, and that's one of them.
• 22:51
  Well, you can't comment unless you've seen the film.
• 22:54
  It is very raw, and it is brutal. Yes, I can comment.
• 22:58
  You put rape in the film, there's no need for it. There's no need for it.
• 23:01
  There is. There is a point to it.
• 23:03
  Was there, okay, why wasn't the initial rape in this movie then?
• 23:07
  It's to highlight the brutality of the system. It works in both ways. That's my point.
• 23:12
  Anyways, I apologize. We're here to talk just an amazing film.
• 23:17
  He wants to talk about rape scenes in prison.
• 23:20
  Well, I can talk about adult stuff, no problem.
• 23:24
  Without... Yeah, because nothing beats a good adult talk about rape.
• 23:28
  Well yeah we'll have to talk about difficult issues that's being an adult ok
• 23:33
  let's just move on yeah let's move on but I had to get my points across there.
• 23:41
  I do like the line where he's being brutalized by Boggs but at the same time
• 23:47
  he's finding his niche with Red and he asks Red can you get me a poster of Rudy Hayworth,
• 23:52
  and they're watching a movie and Boggs brings him in the back he goes I'm going
• 23:56
  to put something in your mouth and you're going to accept it, whatever.
• 24:00
  And if not, I'm going to stab you. He goes, you know, if you stab me while something's
• 24:03
  in my mouth, my mouth's going to be forced to bite down hard. Yeah.
• 24:08
  And instead of taking the head, he's giving out. He's like, you're not going
• 24:11
  to do this to me anymore. He fights back, but he just gets pummeled.
• 24:15
  But the one redeeming quality of our boy Hadley, the guard Hadley,
• 24:21
  is that Hadley goes in and beats the living shit out of Boggs.
• 24:26
  Yeah. making him never walk again.
• 24:28
  In the... Sorry, go ahead.
• 24:31
  No, no, go for it. No, no, in the novella, it's revealed that Andy actually
• 24:36
  sneaked $500 into Shawshank with him, you know, whenever he first arrived,
• 24:42
  and he actually pays the screws,
• 24:47
  to basically beat the shit out of the bugs.
• 24:50
  See, I'm glad we didn't see that. That wouldn't fit. Yeah, well,
• 24:54
  it would have complicated matters more, let's just say, in terms of Andy's character.
• 24:59
  But yes, in the novella, he doesn't actually pay the screws to do it themselves.
• 25:03
  He pays the screws to get someone, like guys, like sort of tough guys to come
• 25:08
  in and beat the shit out of them.
• 25:10
  I know. I like the fact it's more about Hadley's there to, A,
• 25:16
  they've had enough of Boggs, But also, it kind of humanizes Hadley a little
• 25:21
  bit. It makes him more of a rounder character.
• 25:23
  Yeah, because Hadley is a pig. Don't get me wrong. But he's not Boggs.
• 25:29
  And he's just rough. Yeah. And so, and you can't get over that,
• 25:34
  what he did with the fat ass in the beginning.
• 25:36
  Because he does kill him.
• 25:38
  But what I like about this scene, and there's a shot where Boggs grabs him.
• 25:47
  He knows what's going to happen to him and he runs outside his prison he falls
• 25:51
  to the ground, he grabs the bars he's going to be pulled back in as they're
• 25:54
  going to kill him he's like, now you're the victim, you fucking prick.
• 25:59
  And it's such and the reason they did that is because A,
• 26:04
  the warden is going to because he's helping the guards now with taxes he helped
• 26:09
  Hadley with taxes and stuff like that, saving them money so he's useful to them
• 26:15
  exactly So, so Havley does have, yes,
• 26:19
  Havley does have an ulterior motive here.
• 26:21
  A, he's probably given the order from the warden, but at the same time,
• 26:25
  him beating Boggs, even though I'm not a Havley fan, it does humanize him somewhat.
• 26:31
  And it also gives, you know, it gives Boggs, you know, his comeuppance.
• 26:37
  So as an audience member, you're saying, yeah, that bastard deserves that. Yeah.
• 26:41
  And from there, and here's the, here's the twist. you
• 26:45
  got rid of the filth the prison's going
• 26:48
  to be run smoothly you'll get tommy coming
• 26:50
  in you'll get the library's being
• 26:53
  built things are starting to blossom a bit at least a life
• 26:56
  what they can make out of this prison but the tables turn you get rid of one
• 27:02
  bad guy and now you've got the leader who's the real bad guy who's the warden
• 27:07
  the system the system is the real bad guy here yes so So that's where you think everything,
• 27:14
  you know you're going to be safe that they've gotten rid of the ugliest of prison,
• 27:19
  you know, the rapes and the beatings.
• 27:21
  But now it's just going to be a war of words and what the warden can actually do to this man.
• 27:27
  Yeah, using him completely for his own sort of scams and financial advantage, essentially.
• 27:35
  Let's talk about Brooks. Yes, very emotional scene. Very tough scene.
• 27:40
  One thing I don't like about it, Thank you.
• 27:42
  There's a couple times where, and this is one of them, and James Whitmore is wonderful in the scene.
• 27:49
  Yeah. And I did not like that Brooks took over the narration.
• 27:54
  This is Red's story. This is Red's the narrator.
• 27:58
  When Brooks leaves, Brooks is now telling the story. It's not really- And I
• 28:01
  think they do that because Red's not there. Red can't tell you a story he's not seeing.
• 28:07
  So it has to be told by Brooks, who's living it. But they get away with it in
• 28:12
  terms of it's just really Brooke's letter to them in prison.
• 28:16
  You know, like a suicide letter, essentially.
• 28:18
  So it's not really the narration as such. It's more Brooke's voice sort of reading the letter.
• 28:26
  That's a fair point. That's a fair point. But you get my point. I just, I don't know.
• 28:30
  I quite like that. And it actually really adds to the emotion of,
• 28:34
  and it's so tragic, you know, from a humanist point of view, Brooke's a killer.
• 28:40
  But at the same time, he has been redeemed.
• 28:44
  But yet he can't handle Civvy Street, essentially.
• 28:48
  The whole thing he does have a message there, because with Brooks,
• 28:52
  he's been there 50 years, and he's been what they call institutionalized.
• 28:56
  And they even discuss that.
• 29:01
  And when he takes Haywood by the knife to his throat, James Whitmore is wonderful in the scene.
• 29:08
  You can see how vulnerable he is he doesn't want to leave and he's scared he's
• 29:12
  frightened and you know even the way Whitmore sells it that man is not going
• 29:17
  to hurt Haywood you know it completely dead so,
• 29:24
  and when he does pass when he does hang it is emotional and they play on that again with Red,
• 29:30
  and it is but they talk about it being institutionalized and what they're trying
• 29:36
  to say here is that longevity and prison might not be the answer for some people.
• 29:41
  Yeah. Because there's good people out there who make mistakes.
• 29:46
  And those mistakes need to be held accountable for.
• 29:49
  But at the same time, there's redeeming qualities to some of these people.
• 29:54
  There has to be... We didn't meet this whole gang.
• 29:57
  They're all very... They're nice people.
• 30:00
  But obviously caught, you know, when they did something stupid.
• 30:04
  There has to be rehabilitation as well.
• 30:09
  On top of the punishment I think essentially what the overall message is.
• 30:17
  That's not to say that people can just go out and kill people and you know just
• 30:20
  get a slap on the wrists that's not what it's saying but there has to be a point
• 30:25
  to imprisonment in that they have to be rehabilitated to go back so that whenever
• 30:30
  they do go back into society they're prepared because Brooks isn't prepared
• 30:34
  and neither is Red later on.
• 30:36
  But also where they can be a constructive member of society to give something back.
• 30:42
  But with the brutality of so many prison systems over the years in real life, that is not the case.
• 30:48
  And in fact, so many, I don't know the statistics offhand, but it's well known
• 30:56
  that so many people who go to prison become re-offenders and end up in and out all their lives.
• 31:01
  So that is not just a feeling on them, because there has to be personal responsibility
• 31:05
  as well, of course, But there's some feeling there with the system too, if you know what I mean.
• 31:12
  I do feel that the system itself, there needs to be a transition phase.
• 31:18
  So if you've got somebody like Brooks, who's been sitting in prison for 50 years,
• 31:21
  needs to go to like a halfway home and sit there and learn to adapt,
• 31:26
  to be taught what's happened in the world, what's changed, some kind of transition
• 31:30
  into the real world, not just chucking them into the real world.
• 31:33
  Of course, a lot of this boils down to funding as well. You know,
• 31:37
  you know, I'm talking about in real world terms, but I don't know why I'm no
• 31:41
  expert, but yes, there has to be some sort of.
• 31:44
  That's why I'm here. That's why I'm here, Trevor.
• 31:47
  Okay. Mr. Probation Officer Woods, you know.
• 31:51
  Fucking right. Yeah. Fucking right. But yes, there does have to be a balance, sir.
• 31:57
  And I don't get it right in the context of this story with Brooks.
• 32:01
  One scene i didn't get was when now you
• 32:04
  probably incidentally you wanted to give the the
• 32:08
  prison guards and prison guards the prisoners sense
• 32:11
  of normality why you did this but
• 32:14
  things are going well the libraries being you know
• 32:17
  you got the books and the records why would you damage
• 32:20
  all that by putting on the record right well
• 32:24
  in terms of why it's not in the book but
• 32:27
  because this was tim robbins idea having read up
• 32:30
  on it i didn't know that till i read up on it recently but i
• 32:33
  think the point of it is to sort of bring some
• 32:36
  sort of he did it on a whim you know very
• 32:39
  instinctively and i think the point that the
• 32:42
  character is doing is trying to bring just for a
• 32:45
  brief moment like with the beers to bring some form
• 32:48
  of humanity and beauty
• 32:51
  and sort of normality to
• 32:55
  the prison even if it only is because he knows that Hadley's
• 32:58
  gonna like smash the door in even if it only
• 33:01
  is for a couple of minutes in fact later on there's a once he
• 33:04
  gets out of the hole there's a line of dialogue by Andy where he says essentially
• 33:09
  that he was all right whenever he was in solitary confinement because of it
• 33:13
  because he had Mozart with him you know and the beauty of the music so it was
• 33:18
  just to bring that brief moment of beauty into their lives.
• 33:23
  It's also the same scene where Annie talks to Red about hope.
• 33:27
  Yes, it's about hope. And the film is about hope. The final word in the film
• 33:32
  is hope. Yes, that's what it's about.
• 33:34
  And, but Red, it goes, hope's a dangerous thing in here. Yes.
• 33:39
  And next scene, it's his second parole hearing.
• 33:43
  He's a little more gathered. He's a little more remorseful, but again, denied.
• 33:49
  Because he kind of knows it's going to happen. Yeah.
• 33:52
  There's a scene where he buys him, Red buys him no, not Red,
• 33:57
  and he buys him a harmonica,
• 33:59
  yep I guess Red used to play it he did, yeah and he says, no,
• 34:04
  it's beautiful, I'm not going to play it right now and he ends up playing a
• 34:08
  little bit in the prison, in his cell,
• 34:11
  what was the point of the harmonica?
• 34:13
  Was it to bring him some the harmonica?
• 34:16
  Yep, it represents hope for Red, that's why Andy got it for him to give him that sort of,
• 34:23
  it's a representation of hope like whenever he played Mozart
• 34:26
  across the yard it's about giving them something to sort of cling to that represents
• 34:35
  the outside world and the real world and art and culture and beauty and all
• 34:41
  that sort of thing again it goes back to the sort of Christ-like allusions with Andy's character.
• 34:48
  He's given him hope. That's what that represents. Red says that whenever he
• 34:54
  was a young man, he used to play harmonica.
• 34:56
  So then all this horror happened where he killed, you know, he ended up in Shawshank
• 35:01
  for murder and all that there.
• 35:03
  So Andy gave it to him as a reminder of his former life whenever he was out
• 35:07
  in the real world and a young man before all this bad stuff happened.
• 35:12
  Hope, that's what it's about.
• 35:14
  Yeah, no, it's definitely, I mentioned quite a bit when Red gets out.
• 35:19
  I do like the time frame and how they, instead of giving us time stamps,
• 35:25
  what they do is the posters give us the time.
• 35:28
  You had Rita Hayworth from the 40s. You had Marilyn Monroe in the 50s.
• 35:33
  Now you got Raquel Welch from the 60s. That's right.
• 35:36
  Yeah. And at this point, you've got him.
• 35:41
  He's doing, he's pretty much creating a fake alias,
• 35:45
  we don't know it's a fake alias for himself but technically the alias is technically
• 35:50
  for the warden as he's laundering money for him,
• 35:53
  with all these tax breaks and bribes he's getting from these
• 35:56
  contractors because he created this program where prisoners can
• 36:00
  do the work of manual labor for half the cost they were all coming to him yeah
• 36:05
  and then the contractors going you're taking away my men's work I need this
• 36:10
  job well I could probably work somewhere else because they're giving him cash
• 36:14
  under the table for not doing the job. Let us do it.
• 36:18
  The warden's despicable, and he hides it all behind this facade of being a Christian,
• 36:25
  and it's all about God and all this sort of thing, but he's the worst of them all,
• 36:32
  whereas Boggs is more sort of base and despicable in that way.
• 36:38
  The warden here is basically the emperor from Star Wars. He's the big bad.
• 36:45
  There's not even day comparison. No, but that type of character.
• 36:50
  I know they're obviously very different films. I'd say Donald Sutherland and Lockup.
• 36:55
  I haven't watched that in years, but I would like to. I'll have to revisit it. Yeah.
• 37:00
  Or what's his name? Patrick Magooin?
• 37:04
  Patrick Magooin, yes. Magooin. He was the warden in Escape from Alcatraz.
• 37:09
  It was a great film. That's right, yeah.
• 37:11
  Randall Stevens is the alias that he created, and that certainly will come into play when he escapes.
• 37:18
  But things kind of falter. Things are kind of going smooth.
• 37:22
  But when Tommy tells the warden, you knew this was coming, this was predictable.
• 37:27
  When he tells the warden, he didn't do it, I know the man who killed Andy's
• 37:34
  wife and boyfriend, and he ends up shooting him. Warren ends up shooting.
• 37:40
  Hadley actually ends up shooting him.
• 37:43
  And so any kind of humanity that Hadley had for taking out Boggs is quickly
• 37:49
  thrown out the window. Oh, totally.
• 37:51
  When he guns down Tommy. Yeah. And he, at this point, now has given up.
• 37:58
  Yeah. This is what breaks him. Yeah.
• 38:02
  Now he's done 19 years. 19 years, yeah.
• 38:06
  I believe 19 years so far and when he confronts him about Tommy why are you
• 38:11
  being so obtuse about this great scene I love the scene even though I don't
• 38:15
  know the fuck obtuse we I was like I don't know the word but that's fucking cool.
• 38:23
  Maybe I'd be a bit too obtuse you know what,
• 38:28
  We're going to educate people today. Go ahead. I want you to listen to this.
• 38:32
  This guy's a fucking idiot. He doesn't know. Obtuse. Too day far?
• 38:37
  Annoyingly insensitive and slow to understand. Oh, my God. Trevor,
• 38:43
  you're very obtuse most of these podcasts.
• 38:47
  Yeah, I just get my sort of sidekick Hadley here to shoot you for that.
• 38:52
  Wow. Wow. Yeah. Between this and watching rape prison movies.
• 38:58
  Well, I'm an adult, I can handle it, you know? Yeah, that's cool.
• 39:02
  You're an adult. You're cool. Yeah.
• 39:05
  Yeah, but I do like that conversation. And I do like the use of the word.
• 39:10
  And then I joke around, but it's not to throw people off, but he's calling them out. Yeah.
• 39:20
  As he's calling them out, one educated man to another.
• 39:24
  And that's why he used that word. I really do. I really think.
• 39:27
  He can't handle it. Yeah, he's like, meaning I'm above you.
• 39:33
  That's what Andy's saying to him right now. Well, he's not even saying I'm above
• 39:36
  you. What he's saying is I'm at very least equal to you.
• 39:39
  I know what you're doing here. And that's when the warren goes off.
• 39:43
  Because he can't handle it.
• 39:44
  Because he repeated the word obtuse. How dare you? One month in the whole. Yep.
• 39:51
  It's great. I would actually say that Andy is way beyond the warren in terms
• 39:55
  of intellect and all that sort of thing and morally as well obviously but whenever
• 40:01
  Andy says the obtuse comment,
• 40:03
  that's when the warden realises that Andy is way above him so it's not even
• 40:10
  so much Andy reminding him it's the warden's realisation and that's when he
• 40:15
  throws the toys out of the pram he goes,
• 40:16
  how dare you because he now realises,
• 40:21
  Andy's and he's not really just because he's a prisoner doesn't mean he's not
• 40:26
  an educated man. Exactly.
• 40:29
  So, but he does that month, and this is where the film flips.
• 40:34
  This is where it becomes king-esque, where you're misled. You think you're suicidal now.
• 40:40
  Yes. And the famous line, he says to Red, get busy living or get busy dying.
• 40:47
  Plus the fact he's got the rope as well. Yeah.
• 40:51
  And he tells Red, if you ever get out, go to this field. There's a black volcanic rock.
• 41:00
  Shouldn't be there. Look underneath the rock.
• 41:03
  And he goes, why? There's something buried there and then I want you to go to, what's that town?
• 41:09
  It's a place in Mexico. Yeah. No?
• 41:12
  Zihuacan Tineo. Oh, sorry, yes. Yeah. Yeah.
• 41:18
  I'm not even going to pronounce it. I'm not even looking that up.
• 41:23
  We'll say Mexico City. Yeah, we'll just say a turn in Mexico, a seaside turn.
• 41:30
  The last 20 minutes of this film is my favorite. Not that the whole film isn't
• 41:34
  wonderful. It's the most of the payoff. Last 20 minutes, it's the payoff.
• 41:37
  It is where we get flashbacks, how he played the system, all the way when he
• 41:43
  first was using that pick rock to put his initial on the wall.
• 41:46
  Yes. And why he needed the poster for Rita Hayworth,
• 41:49
  how he manipulated the books, how he was able to take we saw one quick glimpse
• 41:55
  of hey bring this down to the dry cleaning and tell him not to use so much starch
• 41:59
  we know that he has access to nice clothes.
• 42:04
  Yeah the shoes they didn't even notice were shined and he's wearing them this
• 42:09
  whole escape and I love this scene when the guy,
• 42:14
  one of the guards is doing roll call in the morning and they're all supposed
• 42:19
  to step out of their cells and Andy does not.
• 42:23
  And all he says is, oh my God. And you don't see anything.
• 42:26
  Did he hang himself? What's going on? The first time you see this film.
• 42:29
  The wonderful thing about this film is that even though you know what's going
• 42:33
  to happen, you still think they're going to change something.
• 42:35
  You still think you're going to find them hung.
• 42:37
  There's some power in this film that draws you in like this.
• 42:42
  Every time you watch it, you get something different out of it.
• 42:45
  And because you get something different out of it, you think they're going to
• 42:49
  change something on you.
• 42:50
  For me, it's one of the greatest payoffs in all the films I've seen.
• 42:55
  This is one of the greatest. When the ward finally loses it again,
• 42:59
  like you said, throwing his toys out of the pram inside Andy's cell,
• 43:03
  and he starts throwing the chess pieces at Hadley, and then he throws one,
• 43:08
  and they hear it puncture through the.
• 43:12
  Poster of Raquel Welch.
• 43:14
  It is such a great twist. He didn't, nobody, I ever seen the theater,
• 43:20
  didn't even think it was coming.
• 43:21
  And that's all about direction and execution.
• 43:24
  And misdirection. Yeah. Yeah. And misdirection.
• 43:27
  Yeah, it's fantastic, like, and it's one of the greatest payoffs I've ever seen
• 43:35
  in a film, or a story overall.
• 43:37
  I mean, the one scene you see him coming, it's disgusting. You see him,
• 43:41
  he's going through all that shit. Yeah.
• 43:42
  It's 10 football fields long, and he's going through all this shit.
• 43:46
  He's throwing up, blah, blah, blah.
• 43:47
  He comes out of it. You cut to the next scene, he's in a beautiful suit,
• 43:51
  walking into a bank. Yeah.
• 43:53
  Withdrawing all this money that all this guy he created.
• 43:56
  But even when he
• 43:59
  comes out of the sewer and he's in the river at night
• 44:03
  and he rips his top off and all that he's cleaning up off
• 44:06
  you know literally and metaphorically he's cleaning all the shit off him from
• 44:10
  Shawshank and he rips his sort of top off and you know he has this almost christ-like
• 44:17
  sort of pose where he reaches up you know to the sky above you know that sort
• 44:22
  of thing brilliantly done and then he asks.
• 44:26
  All the evidence he has in his possession
• 44:29
  because he switches it out and he
• 44:32
  gives it to the bank can you mail that out for me the press
• 44:35
  get it that fucking blows his head off that's right even there's a bit of misdirect
• 44:39
  there whenever the warden's basically loading his gun and you think he's going
• 44:43
  to sort of like shoot at the FBI guys who are coming for him but then one of
• 44:48
  the FBI guys the main one goes something like don't make this more difficult
• 44:51
  than it already is, or worse to that effect.
• 44:53
  And that's when he realizes he just turns it on himself. Powerful stuff, like.
• 44:58
  We have the last parole scene. Before the last parole scene,
• 45:03
  there's a line that Red gives.
• 45:05
  He goes, I'm sitting there, and he's talking about how he misses Andy.
• 45:08
  And he goes, it sometimes makes me sad that Andy's gone.
• 45:13
  And he says, I guess I just missed my friend. It's such an emotional line.
• 45:19
  Morgan Freeman, and it does help that Morgan Freeman who's got that fucking
• 45:22
  voice. Oh yeah, of course.
• 45:23
  When he says about I don't know what that word means, redemption,
• 45:30
  but then he goes on, that whole monologue, and then at the end of it he says,
• 45:33
  you know what, do what you want, young man, because I don't give a shit,
• 45:37
  and then your man gets it.
• 45:39
  Your man on the parole board gets it, and then he stamps, approved. Yeah.
• 45:47
  Yeah. And then he goes to the motions of Brooks, and
• 45:50
  stay in the same place and instead of
• 45:53
  hanging himself and they're carving his name in the wood he says get
• 45:57
  busy living or get busy dying and he starts living
• 46:00
  he goes to go that he gets the rock i love
• 46:02
  the scene where he goes it goes the rock and he he sees his money and he gets
• 46:06
  up to look around yeah because he's a con he's an old con you know what i mean
• 46:10
  of course you know you know what i mean and he's the mr fix it guy in prison
• 46:14
  so that's a something red would do you know and then as he's on the bus,
• 46:21
  And we see a long distance, him on the beach, and he's walking over toward Andy.
• 46:28
  And he says, the last words, he goes, I can't wait. I hope to see my friend. And he just says, I hope.
• 46:34
  Yeah. And that's the ending. And when they meet on the beach,
• 46:36
  it's- Oh, it's beautiful.
• 46:39
  This is the best romance movie fucking ever produced.
• 46:43
  Yeah. I mean- If you're going to get anything out of it, well, that and Tango and Cash.
• 46:49
  Tango and Cash is better. Yeah. Emotionally, Ty Gwokai took me on such a journey.
• 46:56
  I just watched the film for the podcast for like 300th time and I just said
• 47:01
  that line and I choked up when they meet at the end of the beats.
• 47:03
  It is the great one, if not one of the best endings of all time.
• 47:08
  And it's not overkill because I think it works perfectly the way it is in terms
• 47:13
  of they don't have to speak.
• 47:15
  There's just that, you know, the camera comes back and it's like in a real shot
• 47:19
  and you just see them hug.
• 47:20
  That's all you need. that's all you need just leave it at that it's perfectly executed yeah so,
• 47:27
  Is it great? Yeah. And it gets me emotional. So it does. It's beyond great.
• 47:34
  And I don't have a heart. But this gets me emotional. And it is very rare a
• 47:39
  film can do that. The Elephant Man did it.
• 47:42
  Rick William for a dream for different reasons. And this. Yeah.
• 47:46
  Yeah. So there you go. For a guy who's very obtuse.
• 47:50
  Well, sorry, I forgot. Jason takes Manhattan as well. You know,
• 47:54
  that always gets me. You know, emotionally, right in the heart. But anyway.
• 47:59
  But yeah there you are guys I think people knew where this was going I mean,
• 48:05
  I can't I just know how people would hate on this film my jaw just drops anyone
• 48:11
  who says they hate this film,
• 48:13
  yeah doesn't make any sense but there you go Shawshank Redemption we might get
• 48:18
  more Frank Darabont stuff I always liked The Majestic and The Mist The Mist
• 48:22
  as a favorite of the night Mist one of the most depressing innings of all time,
• 48:26
  even through King off and he wrote it.
• 48:29
  Oh, he didn't write the ending, you know? I know, that's my point. Yeah.
• 48:34
  Okay. Oh my god. Stop being obtuse.
• 48:37
  I'm not being obtuse. You obviously don't know the definition of the word.
• 48:41
  Right, well. People who watch rape prison films are very obtuse.
• 48:45
  Right, well, you've just watched one and said it's one of your favorite.
• 48:49
  This is not a rape prison film. No, it's not.
• 48:53
  On a serious note, on a serious note, I'm not watching it Okay That kind of
• 48:59
  thing doesn't appeal to me I just
• 49:01
  can't watch it It's like I spit on your grave I'm not going to watch it.
• 49:08
  I have to admit It's not a favorite of mine And I'm not dissing the film Because
• 49:13
  it's not for me So I won't disrespect it I won't disrespect scum I just know what I like,
• 49:20
  I spit in your grave I find that I want to take a cold shower after watching
• 49:24
  it, and I have no plans to watch it again. That's all I'll say.
• 49:28
  There you go. Shocking Redemption. Guys, give us a shout what you thought of
• 49:32
  this classic film at citizenframe underscore podcast on Instagram and of course Facebook.
• 49:38
  Anything you want to add? No. Mr. Optus? No, that's pretty much it. All good.
• 49:43
  The latest issue of Phantasmagoria is out. Go check it out. But apart from that, all good.
• 49:48
  The Warriors is up next. Can you dig it?
• 49:52
  Warriors come out to play. Is that a clip you used from it that was so like it?
• 49:58
  I know fucking right and that line was improv I know it was and also the guy
• 50:04
  that says the line he of course is in Twin Peaks as well you know.
• 50:11
  There you go okay we're done it's NFL Sunday people,
• 50:16
  so the Buccaneers kick off at 6 o'clock go Bucs so looking forward to that otherwise
• 50:24
  enjoy the rest of your day week and we'll be back with the Warriors and probably something else.
• 50:30
  And Final Destination, probably within the next year or so.
• 50:34
  Because we got Halloween month coming, guys. That's it. Everyone loves Halloween month.
• 50:39
  And so there you go. All right, guys. Take care of yourselves. All the best.
• 50:51
  Music.