Latest / Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast / Beyond the Device: Engagement, Creativity, and Real AI Use | With Carl Hooker

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Beyond the Device: Engagement, Creativity, and Real AI Use | With Carl Hooker · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
• 0:03
  podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
• 0:07
  Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
• 0:09
  as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
• 0:12
  technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
• 0:15
  conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
• 0:18
  we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
• 0:21
  and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
• 0:25
  and let's integrate this. Welcome back to our
• 0:40
  Integrate This EdTech podcast. I'm Jeremy Micklin.
• 0:43
  I'm joined as always by co -host. David Berner
• 0:46
  and David and I have a wonderful guest. We're
• 0:49
  looking forward to having a great conversation
• 0:51
  with for the next hour or so. And it's Carl Hooker.
• 0:55
  Carl has been around the EdTech space for quite
• 0:59
  some time serving in, I know, many different
• 1:01
  capacities. You know, being a tech leader in
• 1:05
  a district to going off on his own and doing
• 1:09
  some of his own speaking and, you know, is constantly
• 1:12
  in demand. I know all around the country. to
• 1:15
  be brought in to do a keynote or to lead some
• 1:19
  staff development days as well. But we're really
• 1:21
  excited to have Carl on. And Carl, we kind of
• 1:24
  usually kick things off by having the guests
• 1:27
  kind of give us a little bit of their background,
• 1:29
  their journey into that EdTech space that we're
• 1:33
  all sharing here today. Yes. Well, thank you,
• 1:36
  Jeremy, David. Thank you guys for having me on,
• 1:37
  first of all. But yes, sit back all and listen
• 1:39
  and think back and travel in time to the 1900s
• 1:42
  for the Internet was just at its birth. Yes,
• 1:45
  this is my origin story. That's right. I'll tell
• 1:46
  it as a fireside chat. No, I started an education
• 1:50
  much like a lot of folks. That was my kind of
• 1:53
  angle into Ed Tech. It just being a classroom
• 1:56
  teacher. And then really, you know, for me, there
• 2:00
  was these little things called iBooks, these
• 2:01
  little white Max, if you guys remember, they're
• 2:03
  like, they're called iBooks. They're cute little
• 2:05
  MacBook laptops, essentially. And we had these
• 2:08
  cows that are called computers on wheels that
• 2:10
  would roll around in our elementary school. And
• 2:12
  those things, I think, just lived in my classroom.
• 2:14
  And I was teaching six year olds at the time,
• 2:15
  first graders. And I remember teachers going,
• 2:17
  you can't, the kids aren't gonna be able to use
• 2:19
  that stuff. And I was like, they were so fast
• 2:21
  at it. They were adept. I was showing them really
• 2:24
  high, high tech stuff like Clarice works and
• 2:26
  hyper studio. If you guys are way old enough
• 2:28
  to remember that stuff. Yeah so that's how we
• 2:31
  got started and then I got moved around a little
• 2:33
  bit and I was I had an opportunity to go start
• 2:35
  a kind of rehabilitate a school on the east side
• 2:37
  of Austin where I'm located and a principal said
• 2:40
  hey I want you to come with me we're going to
• 2:41
  bring the school back up kind of reinvigorate
• 2:43
  the culture of the school itself because they'd
• 2:45
  had some problems and she goes do you want to
• 2:47
  just teach first grade again I was like no you
• 2:48
  know I'll try something different let's try look
• 2:50
  can you make like a computer lab for me and I'll
• 2:52
  do like a computer lab type deal and this is
• 2:54
  2003. And so yeah, I got into it. I was like,
• 2:58
  this internet thing's probably not going away.
• 2:59
  So I got my master's in ed tech and then just
• 3:02
  kind of moved up from there. And so. my last
• 3:04
  official in -school job, I was the Director of
• 3:07
  Innovation and Digital Learning at Eanes Westlake
• 3:09
  here in Austin. So in charge of our one -to -one
• 3:12
  iPad program, which had been the first in the
• 3:13
  state back in 2011. Yeah, so that was 15 years
• 3:18
  ago. Wow, that sounds ancient. Yes, that's right,
• 3:22
  folks. Yeah, there were scrolls and tablets and...
• 3:25
  pieces of pieces of stone, essentially. But yeah,
• 3:28
  and then because of that work, people were asking
• 3:31
  more and more schools would come and visit and
• 3:33
  be like, hey, can we check out what you guys
• 3:35
  are doing? I'm like, sure. And then when they
• 3:36
  come in, I kind of give them a little bit of
• 3:38
  a talk about what we're doing. And then I would
• 3:39
  train them a little bit. And then we started
• 3:41
  offering trainings in the school that pay the
• 3:43
  school for it. So the school district started
• 3:45
  making a little bit of money on it, which was
• 3:46
  nice. And then some of them said, well, can you
• 3:48
  just come to our school and do it? So then I
• 3:50
  said, sure, I'll do it. You know, and they're
• 3:52
  like, we'll pay you like $350 to come do it.
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  I was like, oh my gosh, are you serious? I'm
• 3:57
  so excited. So yeah, my first gig was in Salina,
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  Texas up in North, North, North of Dallas. And
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  it was, they paid me 350 bucks plus they paid
• 4:04
  for my hotel. And I was so excited. I was like,
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  oh my God, I came back and I was like, this is
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  what I want to do when I grow up. I want to be
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  just a full -time speaker trainer. So I kind
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  of worked on that part of the career as I was
• 4:14
  still working in the schools. And then eventually
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  I had to make a decision. So back in... A few
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  months before the pandemic actually I decided
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  to retire quote -unquote early and just become
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  a full -time public speaker and so I've been
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  doing that and Podcasting webinars authors all
• 4:27
  the other fun stuff and even bought a bar and
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  owned that for five years Which survived the
• 4:31
  pandemic, but it didn't survive Gen Z because
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  they don't drink I have to ask real quick, was
• 4:38
  there karaoke at the bar? No. There was at least
• 4:43
  one time that there was because I was there.
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  By default, no, we had live music and it was
• 4:49
  amazing. We find local artists, people that just
• 4:52
  play guitar, not big bands because we only had
• 4:54
  a little tiny stage. It was great. And I was
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  like, it was cool just to meet some of these
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  new, I mean, I have no musical talent. I mean,
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  I can, yes, I can karaoke rap probably is about
• 5:03
  the best thing I could do. And I could DJ, but
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  I can't play an instrument. So I'm always fascinated
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  by people that play instruments and they can
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  just do it naturally. So yeah, we had live music
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  every, every day at the bar and the idle hands
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  rest in peace. It went out of commission last
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  May. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, like being out
• 5:20
  of the classroom or there's still things like,
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  do you miss anything? about not having that daily
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  student interaction. I know David and I both
• 5:27
  have roles and he and I, we're not in the classroom
• 5:30
  either and we talk about that once in a while.
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  you know, for you, what's your experience? Yeah,
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  I mean, I think people out there listening to
• 5:37
  this, you know, if you're a teacher and what
• 5:38
  you go to that next level role, I was told this
• 5:41
  one and when I did it, they're like, once you
• 5:42
  move out of the classroom into like whatever
• 5:44
  support or training or ed tech type role is like,
• 5:47
  you're not going to go back. And they're like,
• 5:49
  No, no, no. You know, but sure enough, you just
• 5:50
  kind of stay there. Or if you can, you try to
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  go up like I did to a director level. But the
• 5:54
  one thing for me was I missed even in those roles,
• 5:57
  I missed like the interaction in the classrooms.
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  So yeah, I miss it a lot now. But Back then,
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  what I would do is purposely schedule time on
• 6:04
  my calendar, because I felt like central office
• 6:07
  folks would just stay in their offices. And it's
• 6:08
  like, yeah, it's great. You have an open door
• 6:10
  policy, but no teacher is going to leave their
• 6:13
  classroom and get in their car and drive over
• 6:14
  to the office to talk to you. It's like, you
• 6:15
  got to be more present. So I would make a point
• 6:18
  of every week scheduling time. And I would just
• 6:20
  take my laptop and go to a campus and just sit
• 6:22
  in the front office sometimes and kind of watch
• 6:24
  teachers and parents as they come in. I would
• 6:25
  walk around the halls and not have a real purpose.
• 6:30
  Well, you got to have a clipboard so you can
• 6:32
  like, are you checking to see what they're checking
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  to see what they're doing? I just want to come
• 6:35
  in and be present. You always find great stuff
• 6:37
  from that too, because people say, hey, while
• 6:39
  you're here, I have a question for you, or I'm
• 6:41
  trying this new thing. And I'm like, that's the
• 6:43
  stuff that if I wasn't around, I would I wouldn't
• 6:45
  see her here. So I do miss that I get to work
• 6:47
  with tech and learning, which is a national organization.
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  So they do regional events. And so I'm the MC.
• 6:53
  of six of those every year. And those are awesome
• 6:56
  because it keeps me connected with folks and
• 6:57
  friends that are still doing the work that you
• 6:59
  guys are doing, too. And so for me, I think that
• 7:02
  keeps me grounded. And again, I was just at Brooklyn
• 7:05
  Tech High School this Friday, which is the largest
• 7:07
  high school in the country, 6 ,000 students.
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  And so that was where I was talking on Friday.
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  And it was awesome just to be around the teachers
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  and the students again. And that building is,
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  I mean, just you can imagine how big that building
• 7:17
  is. It's in Brooklyn. I mean, it's this huge
• 7:19
  building. But it makes me always go like, ah,
• 7:21
  I missed that kind of The school smell, you know,
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  I mean, I hate to say it, but it does have a
• 7:25
  smell. Schools do, especially high schools. Yeah,
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  that's that's got to meet for like us. I mean,
• 7:32
  we're both in in kind of represent schools in
• 7:35
  rural areas of Minnesota for the most part. So,
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  you know, we go and we see big, huge buildings,
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  right? But they're pre K -12 all under. Yeah.
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  So, I mean, they cover this space, but I can't
• 7:45
  imagine. you know taking something like the size
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  of the the school that I taught in for 22 years
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  which had a large footprint but it had you know
• 7:54
  2 000 students spread out over that whole space
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  and you're talking that would be just you know
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  the high school that's the first two floors well
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  it's seven floors tall So I took my daughter
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  with me is my take my daughter to work day. So
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  I took her with me because she's going to be
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  a freshman next year. And I said, I want you
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  to check out this high school. And then I also
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  said, you're gonna have to take pictures of me
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  and do some social media stuff. So I put her
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  to work. But she was like, can you imagine like
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  if you had a class on the first floor, and then
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  on the seventh floor, and then on the fifth floor,
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  I was like, man, you'd be getting a good leg
• 8:23
  workout by the end of that. Because they complain
• 8:25
  their middle school is three stories tall, and
• 8:26
  they complain about it all the time. But like,
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  yeah, look at this building, man. And it's actually
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  a piece of historical property too. Like it's
• 8:33
  that's how ancient the building is, but it was
• 8:35
  beautiful. But yeah, tech a little bit. You gotta
• 8:39
  worry. You know, whenever you have an old building,
• 8:41
  sometimes the Wi -Fi doesn't play so good. Yeah,
• 8:45
  Carl, can we talk a little bit about? Well, I
• 8:46
  guess no matter what the school size, right?
• 8:49
  The big thing is classrooms that are engaging
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  students. Yeah, so if we can talk a little bit
• 8:55
  about that in the first first, why isn't isn't
• 8:59
  when you look at engagement? How is it not about
• 9:02
  the app or the platform of the device? What is
• 9:05
  it really about or how do you achieve that? Yeah,
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  I think this is a great question, David. I think
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  this is, I mean, with the pandemic, I feel like,
• 9:12
  and I think if you guys have been working with
• 9:13
  teachers, you know this too, like kids came back
• 9:15
  and it's almost like something was off, like
• 9:17
  the engagement. There was already struggle with
• 9:19
  engagement prior to the pandemic. Don't get me
• 9:21
  wrong. But I feel like since then and just from
• 9:23
  talking to teachers over the last several years,
• 9:25
  they're like, yeah, there was this big cliff
• 9:26
  and it's just been hard to get them kind of re
• 9:28
  -engaged in school. And a lot of it was they
• 9:30
  got to see kind of like, oh, I can learn on my
• 9:32
  own or learn at my own pace or or maybe they
• 9:34
  just got to be at home and play on their devices
• 9:35
  and they didn't have to go to school. So they'd
• 9:37
  like that more. I think engagement is the key
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  because if you don't have that, it doesn't matter
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  how great your standards are, your textbook is
• 9:45
  or the lesson that you designed. You know, if
• 9:46
  you don't create that engaging experience, kids
• 9:48
  aren't going to receive it. So, yeah, I think
• 9:50
  it's great that you ask about apps or platforms.
• 9:52
  Yes. And it's funny because there are apps and
• 9:53
  platforms. that kind of market themselves saying
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  hey we're we're gonna we're gonna engage your
• 9:57
  students you know that's our that's our thing
• 9:59
  like now i mean kids see right through that so
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  um for me it's like it's being respectful and
• 10:05
  attentive to them uh asking them what their interests
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  are i mean this is the old we've been hearing
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  this for a long time personalized learning and
• 10:11
  voice and choice those are still the standards
• 10:13
  as far as i'm concerned when it comes to engagement
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  so if i go into a classroom and i say Okay, we're
• 10:18
  going to learn about this math problem today,
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  and this is how I want you to do it. Here's,
• 10:21
  oh, it's a digital spreadsheet that I'm going
• 10:23
  to, a sheet that I'm going to send out to you
• 10:25
  digitally. Is that engaging? No, not maybe. I
• 10:27
  mean, it may be a little bit of nut tick because
• 10:29
  it's digital, but even that wears out after a
• 10:31
  while. But if you say, Hey, you know, we've got
• 10:34
  to go, we're going to go buy, we're going to
• 10:35
  start up a store tomorrow. What are we going
• 10:37
  to sell? I mean, even start it blank like that.
• 10:40
  And like, Oh, well, you want to sell these jelly
• 10:41
  cats, which are the big thing, apparently these
• 10:43
  days, because my daughters keep talking about
• 10:44
  them. Okay, well, let's figure out how much they
• 10:45
  cost to actually make them. And then what is
• 10:47
  it? What is the uptick on selling? And then what
• 10:49
  if we buy a building in our area to sell these
• 10:51
  things? How would we like actually create real
• 10:52
  world problems and let the kids kind of lean
• 10:54
  into it? And if not, every kid is into that,
• 10:55
  then say, Okay, your group is going to design
• 10:57
  something else, right? You guys are into, you
• 10:59
  know, Pokemon cards, go ahead and develop a,
• 11:01
  you know, a kiosk for that. So keeping it tied
• 11:03
  to the math, but then making it something that
• 11:05
  they're excited about. And again, that was just
• 11:07
  me on the fly. It would take a lot more time
• 11:09
  to actually structure it and make sure you have
• 11:10
  the you're going over all the actual things like
• 11:12
  I want to make sure you show this this and that.
• 11:13
  But I'll tell you on my last year when I was
• 11:15
  teaching first grade. an interesting thing happened.
• 11:18
  It was the last six weeks of the school year
• 11:20
  and we've covered every standard. When you've
• 11:23
  taught a class for a while, a grade for a while,
• 11:25
  you start to get really good at it. I felt real
• 11:26
  bad for my first year of first grade class because
• 11:28
  I didn't know what I was doing. But by the third
• 11:30
  year, I was doing really great. But that last
• 11:33
  year, I was like, okay, let's start going into
• 11:35
  second grade stuff. Well, the second grade teachers
• 11:36
  actually came to me and said, don't do that.
• 11:38
  I was like, what do you mean? Don't go ahead
• 11:40
  because then we don't know what we're going to
• 11:41
  do. And I'm like, wait a minute, this is messed
• 11:43
  up. I mean, they're excited. They want to keep
• 11:46
  learning. But so what I did instead was I said,
• 11:48
  all right, we're going to do something. I called
• 11:50
  it interest -based learning, which now I think
• 11:52
  is probably more project -based is probably the
• 11:54
  more modern term for it now. But basically, I
• 11:57
  said, pick anything, any topic you want. I don't
• 12:00
  care what the subject is. And then I want you
• 12:01
  to teach. I want you to learn how to develop
• 12:04
  math problems that are around that topic. I want
• 12:06
  you to learn the history of whatever that topic
• 12:07
  is. I want you to write about that topic. So
• 12:09
  I basically hit all the areas. And then if there's
• 12:11
  any science involved, we're going to figure out
• 12:12
  a way to get science involved into the topic
• 12:14
  as well. So they cover their main core areas.
• 12:16
  And then at the end of the six weeks, they had
• 12:18
  to do like a kind of a capstone project. And
• 12:19
  these are six year olds with access to laptops
• 12:22
  and the Internet at the time. So it was incredible
• 12:24
  to see the stuff they came up with. And I basically
• 12:26
  didn't have much structure. But I will tell you,
• 12:28
  I had a assistant principal come in, saw the
• 12:30
  beginning of the lesson. She goes, this is your
• 12:32
  way over their heads. She said, she's, this is
• 12:34
  a terrible idea. I've taught first grade forever.
• 12:36
  These kids will never be able to do what you're
• 12:38
  asking them to do. And I was like, you know what,
• 12:40
  you might be surprised if you set the expectations
• 12:41
  a little bit. Sometimes kids rise to the challenge
• 12:43
  and they did, they all knocked it out of the
• 12:45
  park. It was awesome. And that's when I started
• 12:47
  thinking, okay, I've been doing this the wrong
• 12:49
  way. I've been starting with the textbook and
• 12:51
  the standards. and then instead I should be starting
• 12:54
  with their engagement and then working those
• 12:56
  in the other direction. I think that's kind of
• 12:58
  the key is in there somewhere. Or curiosity.
• 13:01
  I think that would be another great term to flip
• 13:03
  that with. If you could spark their curiosity
• 13:06
  from the very beginning. And I think those six
• 13:09
  -year -olds are probably at that sweet spot for
• 13:11
  that still. Oh my gosh, yeah. Because they haven't
• 13:14
  had the routines of an industrialized school
• 13:18
  beat it out of them yet at the time that they
• 13:21
  get to high school or whatever. But yeah, to
• 13:25
  me, some things might be over their heads, but
• 13:27
  they're going to be engaged. They're going to
• 13:29
  have this curious spark to continue learning
• 13:31
  that hopefully you can instill and build and
• 13:35
  grow throughout all the rest of those years,
• 13:36
  you know? Yeah. And you don't. And again, you
• 13:39
  can't. The problem is, and this is I was challenged
• 13:41
  by someone who was on because back when George
• 13:44
  Bush was a governor of the state, someone was
• 13:47
  on his commission that started the No Child Left
• 13:48
  Behind. And so, of course, really big into testing
• 13:51
  and that. And so I got challenged at a at a parent
• 13:55
  meeting when we're doing all our technology thing,
• 13:57
  where I was talking about how curiosity is up,
• 13:59
  engagement is up, collaboration is up. All of
• 14:02
  these things we're measuring with kids because
• 14:03
  we did some pre and post data before we did the
• 14:06
  rollout of the devices, again, way back when,
• 14:08
  2011. I remember this guy stood up and he's on
• 14:11
  Bush's... like team, he goes, Yeah, well, you
• 14:13
  can't measure that you can't grade that. And
• 14:15
  I was like, it's a shame you can't, because I
• 14:17
  mean, I think that's really an important part.
• 14:19
  I go, the way you really, the way you really
• 14:21
  measure it is like, it's a math problem. It's
• 14:23
  how fast are the kids running away from your
• 14:26
  class versus how fast are they running towards
• 14:27
  your class? Like, that's the problem. That's
• 14:30
  the the ultimate test of engagement, right. And
• 14:33
  he just kind of shook his head and And he and
• 14:35
  I have battled online on Twitter and stuff. He
• 14:37
  had said, yeah, he was an interesting guy, a
• 14:39
  political dude. But he also was open to the idea
• 14:42
  of like, OK, maybe I see some of the idea that
• 14:44
  we do need to engage our kids and we need to
• 14:46
  teach them how to collaborate. And then once
• 14:47
  the World Economic Forum starts coming out with
• 14:49
  their list of like. the top things that students
• 14:51
  need. And you don't see math, science, social
• 14:53
  studies on that list. It's, you know, it's AI,
• 14:56
  it's problem solving, it's creative thinking.
• 14:59
  I think that's, when you start seeing that, I
• 15:00
  think that starts kind of swaying the, you know,
• 15:02
  because all of us have gone to school and that's
• 15:04
  what parents all have in common. They've all
• 15:05
  experienced K -12, therefore it should be like
• 15:07
  when they were in school, right? How many times
• 15:09
  do you hear that? Yeah, back in my day. I'm starting
• 15:11
  to do it now too, so I shouldn't say that. I'm
• 15:14
  getting the grays and the beards is getting bad.
• 15:16
  So is that where you think some of the disconnect
• 15:19
  is like because we have been Because standards
• 15:23
  can kind of make things a bit Rigid and you have
• 15:26
  you know, you there's like expectations around
• 15:28
  what you have to meet and stuff Do you think
• 15:30
  that that lends itself to? Not allowing for some
• 15:33
  creativity or flexibility Like you said where
• 15:36
  you were done with the standards and you you
• 15:38
  your kids met all those but then there was resistance
• 15:41
  to They were they were ready to move on but the
• 15:45
  system wasn't ready to move them on. Oh my gosh,
• 15:49
  yeah. I mean, you're right on point. I think
• 15:50
  the age, when you think about, again, you guys
• 15:53
  both mentioned the industrial model, the factory
• 15:54
  model. It's turn them out at this year, born
• 15:56
  in this year, therefore you're going to the school.
• 15:58
  There's so many kids I've had where like this
• 16:00
  kid comes in reading at like a fifth grade level
• 16:02
  and I'm supposed to teach her. You know how to
• 16:05
  read. It's not good. I mean, she already knows
• 16:06
  how to read. So like instead I should figure
• 16:08
  out. But what do we do? We say, OK, you're in
• 16:10
  charge of you're like the tutor for all your
• 16:12
  friends now. Well, that's not really fair to
• 16:14
  her either, because how is she going to learn
• 16:15
  and grow? And so I think that's a huge big factory
• 16:18
  model thing that we that's hard to change. It's
• 16:20
  just almost impossible to change. But we can
• 16:23
  change in our classrooms that engagement and
• 16:24
  how do we engage and how do we tie into this
• 16:26
  curiosity levels like you're saying, Jeremy,
• 16:28
  and really building that in. And I think that's
• 16:31
  part of it. I think once once we start to realize
• 16:33
  that I did, I will have some teachers that'll
• 16:35
  say like, well, my job is I have to teach these
• 16:38
  standards. And this is like, and I go, the problem
• 16:40
  is you're thinking of those as a ceiling. Like
• 16:42
  that's as far as you can go. They should be your
• 16:45
  floor. like the floor of the standards after
• 16:47
  that it should just be you continue to grow and
• 16:49
  do whatever you want it's not a you have to teach
• 16:51
  this because there's it's all in your mindset
• 16:52
  if you think it's like this is locking me down
• 16:54
  and i only have to teach this way ap teachers
• 16:56
  do this all the time they're like well we have
• 16:58
  to teach based on you know what the college board
• 17:00
  tells us and i was like the college board just
• 17:02
  tells you what you need to teach it doesn't tell
• 17:03
  you how to teach and I think some teachers see
• 17:06
  that and they go, I have to be limited based
• 17:08
  on what the college board tells me, which is
• 17:10
  in its own right, a big, I don't know if you
• 17:12
  guys are familiar with them, but they're a big
• 17:13
  organization. Not mafia run, but could be. Sorry.
• 17:17
  If you're someone with the college board, I apologize.
• 17:18
  Don't come after me. But I feel like, again,
• 17:22
  it's just a mindset shift. It's going from floor
• 17:24
  to ceiling. It just says, okay, this is the minimum
• 17:27
  I'm going to teach, but I'm going to go above
• 17:28
  and beyond that with my students. they're wanting
• 17:34
  to see that they're getting good data from classrooms
• 17:39
  and the data might just be based around are you
• 17:42
  meeting the standards, are the kids ready to
• 17:44
  move on to the next thing. So do you think that
• 17:46
  too is, that prohibits a bit of what you might
• 17:51
  be able to do in the classroom or what would
• 17:53
  be your advice to somebody that's looking to
• 17:56
  meet those standards but then at the same time
• 17:59
  take it to the next level to create more engagement
• 18:01
  in the classroom? Yeah, that's a great question.
• 18:04
  And I think when I wrote one of the books I wrote
• 18:06
  Ready, Set, Fail is about creating spaces and
• 18:10
  opportunities for kids to make mistakes in the
• 18:11
  classroom and make them fail. Well, one of the
• 18:13
  parts of the chapters I put in there, because
• 18:15
  I actually had someone send me a note about it.
• 18:17
  And they're like, hey, well, this is great. But
• 18:18
  my structure, meaning their administrator, the
• 18:21
  culture in their school building, was very much
• 18:24
  we are going to be rigid. We're going to be on
• 18:25
  time. Everybody's going to walk in lines. So
• 18:29
  she asked me, how do I create a space? where
• 18:32
  we can still have those little mini opportunities.
• 18:35
  Don't get me wrong, it's harder when you have
• 18:37
  that. When you don't have an administrator that
• 18:38
  sees it or believes it, then it's going to be
• 18:39
  trickier. You have to almost say, okay, when
• 18:42
  I close my door, my space is my space and I'm
• 18:44
  going to have opportunity for them. But yes,
• 18:46
  we're going to get to the standards and yes,
• 18:47
  that's going to happen. But if you've looked
• 18:49
  at any data from project -based learning for
• 18:50
  the last several decades, it always trends in
• 18:54
  the same direction. It's that the kids always
• 18:55
  crush whatever standardized assessments you take.
• 18:59
  And they have better life skills as a result
• 19:02
  of it, because they're able to work with others
• 19:03
  better. The problem is that it's not teaching
• 19:07
  on a traditional... scope and sequence. Um, you
• 19:11
  know, we all learned those men when I went to
• 19:12
  school is, uh, man, I can't remember the name
• 19:14
  of now the type of there's a lesson planner.
• 19:16
  You had to have your antecedents and your objective
• 19:19
  and your step by step. It's almost like a recipe,
• 19:21
  right? Um, and if you did, oh, Matt Madeline
• 19:23
  Hunter, that was going through my brain. Somebody
• 19:27
  out there drink right now because that was, we
• 19:29
  just, we just brought up PTSD of Madeline Hunter,
• 19:31
  but you know, And it's funny, because at the
• 19:34
  same time, while Hunter's design was really taken
• 19:36
  off, there was this other guy named Harry Wong.
• 19:38
  If you remember Harry Wong, yeah, his whole thing
• 19:40
  was like, be out there, you know, shaking the
• 19:43
  kids hands, getting them excited. So he was like
• 19:45
  trying to bring on the culture part of it. He
• 19:47
  was ahead of his time in many ways, too. So I
• 19:49
  think long story short, what you're what you're
• 19:51
  asking me, David, was that, you know, again,
• 19:52
  getting around that is tricky. So you have to
• 19:54
  almost create like mini environments within your
• 19:56
  classroom to do that. But then I'll say for the
• 19:58
  leaders out there that are listening. There is
• 20:00
  such a thing, I call it false growth mindset.
• 20:03
  When Carol DeWette came out with the growth mindset
• 20:04
  stuff, everybody was espousing it and quoting
• 20:06
  it, and I loved it because I agree with a lot
• 20:08
  of what she's talked about in principle. The
• 20:10
  problem is a lot of administrators will say that's
• 20:13
  what we should do, but they aren't actually doing
• 20:14
  it. I'll give you an example. I had a assistant
• 20:17
  superintendent, he sent me a... we had just switched
• 20:20
  over to Google. And he was still using spreadsheets
• 20:22
  and sending them as attachments. And he'd sent
• 20:24
  me the spreadsheet like 14 times. Like, every
• 20:26
  time he sent me this, I told me it's another
• 20:27
  copy. I go, let's put it in Google Sheets. And
• 20:29
  then we can just collaborate on it. And he was
• 20:31
  like, No, I don't, I don't want to learn that.
• 20:33
  I don't I don't have time for that. And let me
• 20:34
  tell you, he was the one that would go out and
• 20:36
  speak to schools and tell them that they had
• 20:38
  to have a growth mindset. I was like, you're
• 20:39
  exhibiting the exact opposite of that, right?
• 20:42
  So that's almost worse, too. It's like, it's
• 20:44
  one thing that like, I know, I'm a fixed mindset.
• 20:45
  But it's worse. It's like, I have false growth
• 20:47
  mindset, meaning I I think I have it, but I actually
• 20:49
  don't. So yeah, it definitely comes down to principals
• 20:52
  and somewhat district leaders. But I would say
• 20:56
  the principal probably controls that narrative
• 20:57
  of what the culture looks like in a classroom.
• 20:59
  My daughter had an old middle school principal
• 21:02
  who sent out a letter that said, Oh, the state's
• 21:04
  coming by to look at our test scores and all
• 21:06
  this. And he goes, and he wrote in the newsletters,
• 21:08
  like, I don't really care about any of that crap.
• 21:10
  He goes, I just want them to see the smiles on
• 21:11
  our kids faces. How excited this is middle school
• 21:13
  mind you to where middle school usually kids
• 21:15
  are pretty miserable. It seems like, and he had
• 21:17
  just built this amazing culture in that building.
• 21:20
  That's where my kids went to school. And so I
• 21:22
  was, I sent him a note and he's like, I guess
• 21:23
  I can't believe anybody read my newsletter. I
• 21:24
  was like, no, I read it. And I was like, and
• 21:26
  I was like clapping because you're like, yes,
• 21:28
  this is great. We're doing okay. Our test scores
• 21:30
  are fine. It's more, are the kids happy, successful?
• 21:32
  Are they going to be content with life? Um, and
• 21:34
  that's a real important thing. Because those
• 21:36
  kids I taught in first grade, let me tell you,
• 21:38
  they're 28 and 29 years old now. And they've
• 21:41
  friended me on Facebook. And they've told me
• 21:43
  they still remember all of those experiences,
• 21:46
  all of those things. They don't remember the
• 21:47
  tests and the quizzes. They remember how we designed
• 21:50
  the classroom to look like a jungle. And we all
• 21:52
  dressed up as animals and talked about habitats
• 21:54
  and things like that. Went to Harry Potter. We
• 21:56
  read the book Harry Potter, then we went to the
• 21:57
  movie theater after school on an unofficial field
• 21:59
  trip where the parents, by the way, left all
• 22:02
  their kids with me, which is kind of crazy. They
• 22:03
  just dropped them off. I was like, no, you're
• 22:05
  supposed to stay. And they all left as me and
• 22:06
  22 kids in a theater. But I mean, those things
• 22:09
  they remember, though. And that would have been
• 22:11
  the time to have your bar open and have a movie
• 22:13
  theater. Brilliant. There is an Austin, a actual
• 22:17
  bar next to a daycare. And they have a window.
• 22:19
  I'm not making this up. They have a window where
• 22:21
  you could go into the bar and look into the daycare,
• 22:24
  your kids while you're like, uh, tell me you
• 22:27
  have a problem without telling me. Maybe, maybe,
• 22:30
  maybe a little too much on the drinking, but
• 22:31
  yeah, but yes, great idea. So we can't have an
• 22:36
  ed tech podcast today. I think, uh, in, in 2026
• 22:39
  and not have a conversation for a little while
• 22:42
  around the topic of AI. Hey, we made it 22 minutes
• 22:46
  guys. I'm excited. I thought that was pretty
• 22:48
  impressive. I mentioned it briefly with the world
• 22:51
  economic form, but then I kind of quickly. Yeah.
• 22:55
  With the technology available in artificial intelligence
• 22:59
  today, David and I talk a lot about needing to
• 23:04
  still have that human connection and needing
• 23:06
  to make sure that what we're using AI for is
• 23:10
  actually going to lead to more critical creative
• 23:13
  thinking, or at least to more efficient processes
• 23:18
  that take place. you know, as a result of that
• 23:22
  AI use. But you know, like, if you think about
• 23:24
  it in terms of teachers right now, you know,
• 23:27
  where do you see AI actually helping teachers
• 23:31
  and not just not just the hype of like, hey,
• 23:34
  you got to try this new thing that's out there.
• 23:36
  And, you know, like, where do you see it actually
• 23:39
  benefiting teachers and then, you know, by extension
• 23:42
  students in their classes? Well, and this is
• 23:44
  the double edged sword with this as in It's because
• 23:48
  the efficiency thing you mentioned, I think,
• 23:49
  is great. But I'm going to say, but the problem
• 23:54
  is, if you lead with that, then everybody sees
• 23:56
  it as an efficiency tool, right? And not a creative
• 23:58
  tool. And I think what's happened is there's
• 24:00
  programs like School AI, Magic School, Brisk.
• 24:03
  I mean, I know all the folks at those companies.
• 24:05
  They're great. I worry about some of the limiting
• 24:08
  factors of those two. Like, okay, this will just
• 24:10
  be a quick way for you to make that IEP or to
• 24:12
  write that email to that parent. And yeah, it
• 24:15
  does help with that. Don't get me wrong. I just
• 24:17
  want to make sure that we're not like, that's
• 24:19
  it. Like that's where it ends. Cause to me, I
• 24:21
  get really excited about the creative side of
• 24:23
  AI. You know, doing like how I open all my keynotes
• 24:27
  now is with this thing called carry AI okey.
• 24:30
  And of course, cause I have to have karaoke in
• 24:32
  there. And the way it works is I put in song
• 24:35
  lyrics into an image generator. I use Padlet.
• 24:37
  You can use whatever you want, Canva, whatever.
• 24:39
  Have it create images based on the lyrics of
• 24:41
  the song, and then see if you can guess the song
• 24:43
  just based on the images. Now, that would have
• 24:46
  taken me hours before AI. I'd have to sit there
• 24:48
  and figure out how to draw it, put it into a
• 24:50
  slide, design a slide to look like it. And then
• 24:52
  now it's just like, it creates it. I put it in,
• 24:54
  I would have never even thought to do that. So
• 24:56
  it opened up a pathway of something that I would
• 24:57
  never thought of. Now, this is silly and fun
• 24:59
  because music ties people together, but it also...
• 25:02
  Secretly what it's doing is it's actually disarming
• 25:04
  the audience because I'm showing them like hey,
• 25:06
  here's a creative use of AI quickly also songs
• 25:09
  that I choose are generally songs that are sing
• 25:11
  -along type songs everybody knows sweet Caroline
• 25:13
  and Baby got back. Well, I won't do baby got
• 25:15
  back I don't know what that image would look
• 25:17
  like that I say that ice ice babies that I meant
• 25:19
  to say but wow Now I have to go find out what
• 25:21
  that looks like no So I would do these do these
• 25:24
  things and it kind of disarms them pretty quickly
• 25:26
  But they also see like oh and also it's creative
• 25:28
  and it also you know, we've said differentiation
• 25:31
  for decades as well in schools. It actually allows
• 25:33
  for some of that, because now if you have visual
• 25:35
  learners, you can design artwork around it or
• 25:37
  images around it. If you have learners of other
• 25:39
  languages, if you've looked at it, you guys been
• 25:41
  playing around with notebook, LM's latest updates.
• 25:44
  I mean, they have so much new stuff just came
• 25:45
  out even the last week, but the languages on
• 25:47
  there are great. So now you can have the podcast
• 25:49
  or those same two hosts, but instead they're
• 25:51
  doing it in a different language that the kid
• 25:52
  understands or making a video that the kid will
• 25:55
  pick up the language a little bit faster. So.
• 25:56
  kind of overcoming those gaps. And so I, I just
• 25:59
  think, I mean, to be honest, AI has been around
• 26:01
  for decades, but generative AI is fairly new.
• 26:05
  And so, you know, the opportunities, what it
• 26:07
  provides for kids in terms of that, that differentiation,
• 26:09
  that personalization, all that stuff I talked
• 26:11
  about with that first grade class way back when,
• 26:13
  where they could do interest -based learning.
• 26:14
  Oh my gosh, have we had AI back then? Who knows
• 26:17
  what they would have come up with, like designing
• 26:19
  different models for basketball or, you know,
• 26:22
  figuring out, you know, because every kid had
• 26:23
  a different topic, you know, and so it's like,
• 26:25
  just thinking about all this stuff that you come
• 26:26
  up with, but, or even reading the book Harry
• 26:28
  Potter, where they don't have images. And we
• 26:29
  imagine what Hagrid maybe looked like in that
• 26:31
  book. And every kid kind of draws out what it
• 26:33
  looked like. And then we use AI to come up with
• 26:35
  descriptive words to show it. Again, this is
• 26:37
  first grade, but we're showing them in an early
• 26:39
  stage, like, Hey, this is how your AI literate.
• 26:41
  This is how you use it as a creative tool. And
• 26:43
  then let's look at the image it creates and decide,
• 26:45
  is it the image that we thought of in our head?
• 26:47
  What's different? What's not? Again, critical
• 26:48
  thinking then. So. I think it starts at kindergarten
• 26:52
  and you show them those creative elements. The
• 26:53
  more we can push that forward, the less I'll
• 26:56
  be worried about. It's going to be an efficiency
• 26:58
  tool that helps us work, do things faster, and
• 27:00
  kids can maybe cheat or get around things quicker
• 27:02
  because we're focusing too much on that part
• 27:05
  of it. So that's why I always say the double
• 27:07
  -edged sword of that, yes, it's efficient, but
• 27:09
  also let's not forget it's also creative. Yeah,
• 27:11
  and I think you touched on some of those developing
• 27:14
  those key AI literacy skills. early on, but part
• 27:19
  of me says, but it still comes down to the teacher
• 27:23
  to be able to offer those opportunities to their
• 27:25
  students. And so how much teacher judgment should
• 27:30
  go into whether or not they bring AI in front
• 27:33
  of their students? Is it something we need? To
• 27:37
  do principles do admins need to say you have
• 27:40
  to make sure that you're at least introducing
• 27:42
  students to AI or you're giving them opportunities
• 27:46
  to, you know, learn from the tool, you know.
• 27:50
  iterate, make mistakes, try something different
• 27:52
  if you're not getting results you need. Or is
• 27:55
  it something where you have a teacher and we
• 27:57
  should honor and respect their wishes if they
• 28:00
  say no absolutely I teach English and all my
• 28:03
  students are gonna do is use it to cheat and
• 28:06
  write their papers so therefore I'm gonna draw
• 28:09
  a line in the sand and you know maybe even in
• 28:11
  concrete because no one's gonna cross that. Right,
• 28:14
  you know, like no student would ever try to get
• 28:16
  around that. I'm yeah, I think that's a danger
• 28:19
  and I think I mean you're I think what you're
• 28:21
  saying is the essential question here and that's
• 28:23
  in it. Yes, principals make decisions. Districts
• 28:26
  make decisions. Tech leaders say whether or not
• 28:27
  you can use this tool or this tool or data and
• 28:29
  this and that. But ultimately comes down to use
• 28:31
  the teacher to say, like, am I comfortable with
• 28:33
  my students using this tool to help them learn?
• 28:35
  Or if you're in the case of, let's say, K -12,
• 28:38
  where they're really little, like, am I comfortable
• 28:40
  at least talking to them about the foundational
• 28:41
  idea of what AI actually is and not anthropomorphizing
• 28:45
  it, where they think it's actually a creature
• 28:47
  or a person or a human? I mean, I refer to the
• 28:50
  thing that's in this office. I won't say her
• 28:51
  name because she'll see I said her. But Alexa,
• 28:55
  oh, dang it, I said it. But yeah, they like even
• 28:58
  that CA that makes it into like almost a human
• 29:01
  being in that sense of teaching kids at an early
• 29:03
  age about it. You know, if we don't do it, then
• 29:06
  we assume what that the parents are going to
• 29:07
  be the ones that are going to teach kids how
• 29:09
  to use AI appropriately. We all know that parents
• 29:11
  don't have time for that either. And they don't
• 29:12
  even know themselves because we're all learning
• 29:13
  at the same time, much like social media back
• 29:16
  in the early 2010s, right? We all kind of got
• 29:18
  it at the same time. We figured it out at the
• 29:20
  same time. And now if you're on social media,
• 29:22
  you can see kind of the goods and the bads of
• 29:23
  what happens with social media, right? So I think
• 29:26
  it's a it should be a prerogative of every school
• 29:28
  to have some sort of scope and sequence starting
• 29:31
  in K pre K all the way up. And at the early stages,
• 29:34
  it's modeling showing that early behavior, because
• 29:36
  that's when you're really getting those foundational
• 29:37
  skills going, OK, this is interesting. I'm using
• 29:40
  it for this, this and this, but I'm not going
• 29:42
  to use it for this, this and this. And as they
• 29:43
  get on into the upper grades and then middle
• 29:45
  school and high school, then I think it becomes
• 29:47
  a modeling of like, OK, we're going to use it.
• 29:49
  and here's how we're going to use it. You're
• 29:51
  going to have it draft the paper that I want
• 29:53
  you to write. You're going to start with that
• 29:55
  as your draft. Have AI come up with a draft.
• 29:57
  Here, write the whole paper for me. That's fine.
• 29:59
  Now, give me your first draft and that's the
• 30:00
  AI draft. Now, what I want you to do is go back
• 30:02
  and revise the AI draft and make it a better
• 30:05
  paper. I want you to be smarter than AI. I want
• 30:07
  you to sound better than AI and I want to put
• 30:08
  yourself in this paper and know more about it
• 30:10
  because AI is not perfect. It has fallacies all
• 30:13
  the time. As a result of that, I'm going to say
• 30:16
  that's your first draft now. And I'm not going
• 30:18
  to accept it. I need to see your final draft.
• 30:20
  Or flip it the next time. Go, hey, this time
• 30:22
  you're going to write the first draft. But when
• 30:24
  you get to a certain stage, when you're done
• 30:25
  with your first draft, put it into AI and have
• 30:27
  it give you some suggestions for improvements.
• 30:29
  And then when you hand it in, I want to see your
• 30:31
  draft with the AI accepted improvements. Be transparent.
• 30:35
  And I think doing those things instead of saying
• 30:37
  just don't use it, I think. You're actually grading
• 30:41
  them more on the learning process by doing that
• 30:43
  versus the final product, which is something
• 30:45
  I've heard quite a bit since AI has come out.
• 30:47
  It's like, we should do process over product,
• 30:49
  which I agree. But I think there has to be some
• 30:51
  product involved. But I think it needs to be
• 30:53
  a balance of both. And so if I say, hey, I'm
• 30:55
  going to grade you on your first draft, the AI
• 30:56
  revisions, what you accepted, what you didn't
• 30:58
  accept, your final draft. If you work with another
• 31:00
  student to peer collaborate, that should be a
• 31:03
  part of it too. So again, keeping the human in
• 31:05
  the loop. I think that's kind of the way to go.
• 31:08
  If you're an ELA teacher, don't run away from
• 31:10
  it. Just structure it and say, hey, we're going
• 31:12
  to use it to brainstorm ideas for our paper,
• 31:14
  but that's it today. Or the next time, hey, you've
• 31:16
  done your paper, ask it to give you reflection
• 31:18
  questions. And I want you to answer the reflection
• 31:20
  questions it gave you. So again, you're using
• 31:22
  it to help, but that's always about the human
• 31:24
  in the center of all that. And I think you're
• 31:26
  exactly spot on. I was actually going to throw
• 31:28
  that word reflection out. If you can put students
• 31:33
  in the situation where they need to reflect upon
• 31:35
  what the AI is suggesting that they're doing,
• 31:37
  they're using that higher level thinking skills.
• 31:40
  They're engaging with their thinking in ways
• 31:43
  that they wouldn't have done before when you
• 31:45
  just say, hey, I just watched your final draft,
• 31:47
  turn it in, it's due in two weeks, I'll read
• 31:49
  it then. You're not getting any of that process
• 31:54
  along the way. And now, yes, you get to that
• 31:58
  final product, they turn it in, but they also
• 31:59
  then have to reflect upon that product in all
• 32:01
  of those different ways, like you just mentioned.
• 32:03
  Yeah, I was working with Florida Virtual Schools
• 32:06
  last year. I did a keynote with them. And it's
• 32:08
  interesting. Florida Virtual Schools are massive.
• 32:10
  I mean, they have 3 ,000, 4 ,000 teachers. They're
• 32:12
  all over the country, too. They're not just Florida.
• 32:14
  And they're really kind of figuring out how to
• 32:17
  embrace AI, because obviously, their kids are
• 32:19
  at home. So they don't have any way of looking
• 32:21
  over their shoulder to see if they're actually
• 32:23
  using it. But what they do is, every week, they
• 32:26
  do these little, they're called DBAs, discussion
• 32:28
  -based assessments, where essentially, They get
• 32:31
  on a call with their student and for 15 minutes
• 32:33
  they just talked about the work they've been
• 32:34
  doing. And in that 15 minutes they said they
• 32:37
  could discern pretty much right on point what
• 32:39
  are the kids actually learning and taking and
• 32:41
  what they're not. And so even those informal
• 32:43
  discussions now this is where the efficiency
• 32:45
  we talked about earlier might come in handy.
• 32:47
  Now if I have AI helping me speed up some stuff
• 32:49
  maybe I have more time to have informal discussions
• 32:50
  with my students and figure out like what are
• 32:52
  they actually learning. And like you said I think
• 32:54
  reflection is the thing that we always cut out
• 32:56
  because we're always in a hurry. So man just
• 32:58
  have them. Ask answer a couple of reflection
• 33:00
  questions that could be part of the grade like
• 33:02
  a as part of this final product I want you to
• 33:05
  answer three or four reflection questions and
• 33:07
  and maybe it's verbal or maybe it's just you
• 33:08
  write it down I mean, I guess if they write it
• 33:10
  down they could ask AI to reflect for them But
• 33:12
  but yeah, you could tell you don't need a cheat
• 33:15
  detector anymore It's got too many of those M
• 33:17
  dashes and and you know, it likes the emojis
• 33:19
  too much. It's it's pretty obvious when it's
• 33:20
  AI anyway So Carl, we can kind of maybe segue
• 33:27
  here too with the AI conversation into the leadership
• 33:30
  part of this. We already kind of brought this
• 33:34
  up because we were talking about the standards
• 33:36
  and how there's a bit of rigidity to the system.
• 33:40
  And the one thing that maybe there's some opportunity
• 33:45
  here is to open things up a little bit more for
• 33:48
  innovation with AI. And you mentioned creating
• 33:51
  and things like that, the positive uses of it.
• 33:54
  If we're looking at how could leaders help to
• 33:59
  cultivate innovation when it comes to AI, you
• 34:03
  know, I know that we, like for us, we talk a
• 34:05
  lot about AI guidelines and how really with some
• 34:09
  of our schools, how rigid those should be so
• 34:12
  that, you know, you're not stifling all the creativity.
• 34:15
  So if you're thinking about leadership and connecting
• 34:18
  it to this current state that we're in with AI,
• 34:24
  How could leaders support teachers rather than
• 34:27
  like trying to hover or trying to make sure,
• 34:30
  you know, they've got all the stops in the way
• 34:32
  so nothing goes wrong? How can they maybe cultivate
• 34:35
  some of that innovation with this with AI? Yeah,
• 34:38
  they have to create. I mean, we tell teachers
• 34:40
  all the time to create the guardrails for how
• 34:42
  kids are using it. You know, it's not necessarily
• 34:44
  a, you know, there's a big path. It's a wide
• 34:47
  path. You can go on it. We don't want you to
• 34:48
  get too far off the path. I think leaders are
• 34:50
  doing the same thing like saying, hey, we want
• 34:52
  you to use it. There are some things we can't
• 34:54
  do. Obviously, sharing student data. There's
• 34:55
  some certain things we want to make sure we stay
• 34:57
  with. These are potholes we have to avoid. But
• 34:59
  I think they have to model it as well. Last fall,
• 35:03
  I did a AI leadership boot camp with Dr. Adam
• 35:05
  Vile, who I podcast with. And we did it with
• 35:08
  future ready schools. And in that, we had 12
• 35:10
  different cohorts of schools that were involved
• 35:11
  in it. And it was interesting to see they're
• 35:14
  all in a different range of. from lockdown, we're
• 35:16
  not going to use it to like, we're just letting
• 35:19
  them do whatever they want, almost to extreme
• 35:21
  the other direction too. And I was like, okay,
• 35:23
  well, somewhere in there is a happy medium where
• 35:25
  it's like, we can, we can cultivate, pick a tool
• 35:27
  or two, don't go too crazy and pick every tool
• 35:29
  and say, Hey, let's pick a couple we're going
• 35:30
  to focus on. These will be kind of our primary
• 35:32
  tools, but there needs to be a little bit of
• 35:34
  a space for teachers to explore to say like,
• 35:37
  Ooh, maybe I want to make video. but none of
• 35:40
  these tools will create video. But I know that
• 35:41
  Google's, uh, Vio flow, which is a great video
• 35:44
  created tool. Um, that'll make some great videos
• 35:46
  for me. So maybe, you know, having a pathway
• 35:48
  where they can ask for either a pilot test or
• 35:51
  a license for just that teacher to try it out.
• 35:53
  That was something I, you know, this is all,
• 35:55
  man, it's like deja vu because we did the iPads,
• 35:58
  you know, it was like every there's 15 note taking
• 36:01
  apps. You remember that? It was like, Oh, I want
• 36:02
  to have no notability and the notes and the,
• 36:04
  and like every teacher wanted their own flavor.
• 36:06
  So like we had to get to a point where like,
• 36:08
  okay, we, We'll let a few of you play with these
• 36:10
  other ones, but when we find the one that we
• 36:12
  like, we're gonna just buy it in bulk. We're
• 36:14
  gonna say, hey, this is what we're all gonna
• 36:15
  use, and we're gonna agree on it. But you have
• 36:17
  to give them that space to explore. You gotta
• 36:20
  have those trailblazers. Every campus has them.
• 36:22
  There's the person that's just willing to try
• 36:23
  whatever. Give them a little bit of extra room
• 36:26
  to go out and try some different things, then
• 36:27
  come back and say, hmm, I think this could be
• 36:29
  a really powerful tool for student learning,
• 36:31
  or yeah, this is fun. But I don't know that it
• 36:34
  really moves the needle much when it comes to
• 36:35
  learning. So yeah, I think creating those spaces.
• 36:38
  I used to always tell teachers like the one word
• 36:39
  I used to be a tech director. So the one word
• 36:41
  that I could never say no to was pilot. So if
• 36:44
  you come up to me and say, I want to pilot something
• 36:46
  and here's how I'm going to collect the data.
• 36:48
  Here's how I'm going to make sure that it's being
• 36:49
  used correctly. Give me the whole write up. If
• 36:52
  you write it up, I will definitely let you pilot
• 36:53
  it. And that means that a pilot also means that
• 36:55
  sometimes I may turn it off. Like, OK, it didn't
• 36:57
  work. We're going to turn it off. So. Having
• 36:59
  that understanding, but we have to keep trying
• 37:01
  this. I mean, that's, I feel like our country
• 37:03
  is kind of built on the idea of innovation and
• 37:04
  entrepreneurialism, but our schools aren't so.
• 37:07
  How do we create those spaces and environments
• 37:08
  where we can have that innovation continue to
• 37:10
  grow? And I think, you know, risk taking and
• 37:12
  failure, I mentioned it earlier, but I mean,
• 37:14
  school leaders that are out there listening to
• 37:15
  this, I mean, you have to model it too. You can't
• 37:17
  just say it. You have to actually try it and
• 37:19
  do it. That means getting up in front of a faculty
• 37:21
  meeting and saying, hey, I used AI to create
• 37:23
  this funny graphic of us for our holiday card
• 37:25
  or whatever. You know, even that little subtle
• 37:28
  thing, it shows the teacher, okay, this person's
• 37:30
  willing to try something different. They're willing
• 37:31
  to do it in front of a... the crowd of their
• 37:33
  peers. Um, and so I always say students don't
• 37:36
  take risks unless teachers take risks and teachers
• 37:38
  won't take risks unless leaders do. And that's
• 37:40
  kind of the that's kind of how it works on the
• 37:42
  food chain of risk taking. And that's how you
• 37:44
  also kill innovation by saying, Okay, we're not
• 37:45
  gonna have any risk. We're not gonna have any
• 37:47
  failure. It's just got to be straight and narrow.
• 37:49
  By the way, being too conservative, too, in that
• 37:51
  sense, could also be a risk like not changing
• 37:53
  could also be a bad thing. So sometimes people
• 37:57
  think, Well, if we stay with the status quo,
• 37:58
  that's the safest thing. Not always. I mean,
• 38:00
  sometimes the status quo has to shift to Right
• 38:03
  and actually we've seen that a little bit much.
• 38:05
  We've had some schools where they've They're
• 38:10
  behind an AI and what has been happening over
• 38:13
  the last three years Because of what you just
• 38:17
  mentioned of and I think that sometimes it is
• 38:20
  Warranted I think it can be a little bit scary
• 38:22
  with something like AI schools aren't really
• 38:24
  sure what to do or how to approach that Since
• 38:27
  it's so new to everybody But you had mentioned
• 38:30
  modeling is one thing that leaders can do. Is
• 38:33
  there, if you're looking at what makes up great
• 38:36
  tech leadership in this year that we're in, so
• 38:40
  2026 and looking kind of as far out as you possibly
• 38:43
  can, which is tough. What other skills do you
• 38:48
  see besides modeling that ed tech leaders or
• 38:52
  tech leadership should adopt? I, it's really
• 38:56
  funny, you know, years ago when I was really
• 38:59
  struggling with some, with some issues with the
• 39:00
  iPads and tech problems and filters and parents
• 39:03
  and phone calls. And I was just, I remember I
• 39:05
  was just walking down a hallway once muttering
• 39:07
  to myself something I was just in a bad mood
• 39:09
  and this business office finance guy comes over
• 39:11
  to me and I was like, and he's like, you're okay.
• 39:13
  And I was like, I've just, I go, I'm having a
• 39:15
  lot of problems today. And he's like, no, you're
• 39:16
  not like, what do you mean? He goes like, you're
• 39:18
  having a lot of opportunities today. And I remember
• 39:20
  going, no, that's silly. But it changed my perspective.
• 39:25
  It's funny how I was like, instead of seeing
• 39:27
  everything as a problem, see everything as an
• 39:28
  opportunity. Like, OK, so this parent has a real
• 39:31
  issue with the fact that their child has a device
• 39:34
  in their house because they don't want to have
• 39:37
  to deal with a kid with a device in their house.
• 39:39
  Now, this is, again, before smartphones have
• 39:40
  really blown up everywhere. But there's still
• 39:43
  the screen time. warriors that are out there
• 39:45
  worried about it. And so now I have an opportunity
• 39:47
  to get them in front of me and actually have
• 39:49
  a discussion with them about what is, what does
• 39:51
  that screen time actually look like? What does
• 39:52
  it look like in a balanced way versus a not going
• 39:55
  to have it at all? This is the same conversation
• 39:57
  I'm having with schools right now that are banning
• 39:58
  cell phones across the country. I mean, our state's
• 40:00
  banned them too. My 17 year old daughter can't
• 40:03
  bring her laptop, her MacBook to school because
• 40:05
  every device is banned. And I'm like, there's
• 40:08
  something wrong when a five -year -old and an
• 40:10
  18 -year -old have the exact same rule when it
• 40:12
  comes to technology. At some point, we need to
• 40:14
  teach them to be adults and humans. But surprisingly
• 40:17
  enough, a lot of teachers, whenever I mention
• 40:19
  it, they're like, no, we're great. We're happy
• 40:20
  with it. And I was like, yeah. because not always
• 40:22
  the easy thing is the right thing. Sometimes
• 40:24
  the right thing is the hard thing. And I think
• 40:26
  that's in this case with phones, too, it's the
• 40:28
  same way. It's like it is easier not to have
• 40:30
  to deal with the distraction of don't get me
• 40:31
  wrong. And I don't think we need to put more
• 40:33
  stuff on teachers. But at some point, we also
• 40:35
  need to teach these kids to be adults and like
• 40:37
  how to manage it themselves. Because, you know,
• 40:38
  I've been in a dentist office or an elevator
• 40:40
  and I see, you know, we're all like, you know,
• 40:42
  like that. Or even people driving next to me
• 40:44
  freaks me out. But like, at what point do we
• 40:47
  teach that balance? And so. I mean, all of that
• 40:49
  to say, I think when you think about tech leadership,
• 40:51
  I think you have to be nimble, you have to be
• 40:52
  adaptive, but you have to start seeing things
• 40:54
  as opportunities, not problems, and then figuring
• 40:56
  out what can we grow and learn from these opportunities
• 40:59
  that come out of this, and not be afraid to have
• 41:01
  the hard conversations, because I think, man,
• 41:03
  I sometimes smile when I'm getting, not when
• 41:05
  I'm getting yelled at. I mean, I have, I have
• 41:06
  smiled when I'm getting yelled at, and parents
• 41:08
  go, why are you smiling? And I was like, because
• 41:10
  we're having the conversation. And if this doesn't
• 41:13
  happen, we don't talk about it. Everybody goes
• 41:15
  to their little houses and they close their doors,
• 41:17
  and we never learn from each other. And AI is
• 41:19
  now the new one. And it's the same thing. I had
• 41:21
  a parent talk in New York a couple of months
• 41:23
  ago where they brought me in just to talk to
• 41:24
  parents. And we had about 50 parents show up,
• 41:26
  and it was a cold, rainy night. I was like, no
• 41:28
  one's going to show. And they were interested.
• 41:31
  And it's almost the same fears that we saw with
• 41:33
  screen time. You know, what if the AI, what if
• 41:35
  it, you know, because there's stories of the
• 41:37
  one, the kid who asked it questions and it basically
• 41:40
  told him to kill himself. I mean, there's some
• 41:41
  scary stuff there. And that made the headlines.
• 41:44
  And so it's, you know, there's also the fact
• 41:46
  that he had access to a gun that, you know, probably
• 41:48
  he shouldn't have. I mean, there's all these
• 41:49
  other things you could talk about, but AI gets
• 41:51
  the blame in those cases, too. And don't be wrong.
• 41:53
  It's definitely not a therapist. But I think
• 41:55
  having. the hard, uncomfortable conversations
• 41:58
  is important. When I left that parent night,
• 42:01
  I had a line of them just talking to me about
• 42:03
  things and questions. They weren't necessarily
• 42:05
  scared. They were more excited than scared, but
• 42:07
  there's still a little bit of hesitancy and fear.
• 42:09
  And I say, there's nothing wrong with that, by
• 42:10
  the way. That's called judgment. I mean, we all
• 42:13
  have to have it. I, admittedly, even though I'm
• 42:15
  an enthusiast of AI, I also worry that we'll
• 42:18
  overuse it and the kids will underdevelop their
• 42:20
  foundational skills. I think it's on us as teachers,
• 42:23
  but also as parents to figure out where that
• 42:26
  balance is. I do it every night with my kids.
• 42:28
  They're my high school kids using it a lot. And
• 42:30
  I'm always kind of keeping an eye and saying,
• 42:32
  OK, how are you using it? She's like, well, it's
• 42:33
  asking me study questions because I don't understand
• 42:35
  the way the teacher taught me. This AP US history
• 42:38
  teacher taught me the stuff, but I don't really
• 42:40
  know it. So I'm asking it to ask me different
• 42:41
  questions and I'm trying to see if I'm getting
• 42:42
  them right. So she's using it to quiz herself.
• 42:44
  And I was like, that's great. It's like a tutor.
• 42:46
  But again, because I talk to her about it all
• 42:49
  the time. So. Uh, I don't know how many parents
• 42:52
  out in the community are doing that. And if you
• 42:53
  guys work with rural communities, it's even trickier,
• 42:55
  um, in some ways, cause I think they come sometimes
• 42:58
  think, well, this doesn't have anything to do
• 42:59
  with us. But I mean, every, I think it was the
• 43:02
  university of Florida that had every college,
• 43:04
  including the college of agriculture is now required
• 43:06
  to take an AI literacy course because of AI and
• 43:09
  machine learning. And we think about farming.
• 43:11
  I mean, crop rotations, data, there's all sorts
• 43:14
  of stuff that comes in there. I mean, drones
• 43:15
  that are seeding things now and robotic, uh,
• 43:17
  tractors. I mean, it's. there's still a lot of
• 43:20
  futuristic stuff that's happening with it. So
• 43:21
  it touches every field. So I think it's just
• 43:25
  finding that connection with the parents is a
• 43:26
  big part of it too. So I kind of went off, way
• 43:28
  off. Sorry to, your question there, went down
• 43:31
  a deeper rabbit hole. But yeah, I think keeping
• 43:34
  an open mind, being nimble, and then again, seeing
• 43:37
  problems as opportunities. So Garo, I've at least
• 43:41
  had the opportunity, I know, to listen to you
• 43:44
  and to watch you present. at professional development
• 43:47
  conferences, at least twice that I can remember,
• 43:51
  both in Minnesota. Yeah. And Minnesota used to
• 43:55
  have this TIEs conference. Oh, I love TIEs. And
• 43:59
  I remember back in the days with like Mary Masachomer.
• 44:02
  Oh, recipe Mary. Love Mary. Yeah. But I gotta
• 44:08
  say one of the things that is still memorable
• 44:11
  to me that you talk about your first graders
• 44:13
  that will reach out to you years later and and
• 44:15
  mentioned something So I have to share. Oh this
• 44:21
  So if you're not watching I've got an old little
• 44:27
  Twitter gift. It's the fried bacon it we're doing
• 44:30
  the bacon ties conference and If you can look
• 44:35
  on that far right hand side of where all the
• 44:37
  people are, I see Carl hiding in the back with
• 44:40
  this. This giant body wobbling back and forth
• 44:45
  is not a great sight. So I hid behind some people.
• 44:48
  That is awesome. I totally, oh my God. I don't
• 44:52
  know if you remember that. Oh, of course I do.
• 44:54
  I remember the rest of the conference we walked
• 44:56
  around. And then I remember you doing, and actually
• 45:00
  that's me in that hooded sweatshirt. Doing the
• 45:03
  bacon you did you did like you know your karaoke
• 45:07
  or music trivia? Yeah, yeah You know, which is
• 45:11
  just absolutely fantastic. We had such a blast
• 45:14
  doing all of that So I just I just wanted to
• 45:17
  throw that out there back in time It's funny
• 45:20
  the trivia one you bring that up because this
• 45:22
  is a fun thing too that I've started doing with
• 45:23
  us So I still do trivia sometimes but what I've
• 45:26
  started to do now is in my AI workshops is I
• 45:29
  say hey Everybody, everybody in your classroom,
• 45:32
  every student in your classroom, every adult
• 45:34
  in this room has an expertise at something. Meaning
• 45:36
  if you walked into a bar or Jeopardy or whatever
• 45:39
  and you saw a category and you're like, oh my
• 45:41
  God, I'm going to crush this category. Whatever
• 45:43
  it is, maybe it's Seinfeld, maybe it's how to
• 45:45
  make sourdough, maybe it's NBA sports teams or
• 45:48
  something. Everybody's got a one topic. And so
• 45:50
  the hardest, this is how you introduce the human
• 45:52
  and the AI element. So I say everybody in the
• 45:54
  room, come up with your one topic. Now, sometimes
• 45:56
  this takes like, a couple of minutes. People
• 45:58
  are like, I don't know. Have a discussion with
• 46:00
  someone next to you what your topic is. And so
• 46:01
  you start talking to someone next to your partner.
• 46:03
  Now what I want you to do is both of you take
• 46:04
  out your device, your phones, whatever. Each
• 46:06
  of you are going to pull up your AI tool of choice.
• 46:08
  I don't care what it is, chat, GPT, Gemini, Claude,
• 46:10
  whatever, it's co -pilot. Ask it to write five
• 46:12
  trivia questions, multiple choice answers based
• 46:14
  on your partner's topic. And then you're going
• 46:16
  to quiz them and see how well they really are
• 46:18
  an expert in their topic. And then they're going
• 46:20
  to get you back, right? And as a result of it,
• 46:22
  it's a couple of things. It's fun. What usually
• 46:23
  ends up happening is there's always a lot of
• 46:25
  laughter and people are like, and people want
• 46:27
  to beat AI, right? They're like, I want to crush
• 46:29
  whatever AI comes up with. Sometimes AI gets
• 46:32
  things wrong, which is also interesting. We always
• 46:34
  discuss that about 20 % of the time. I have someone
• 46:36
  to raise a hand and go, yeah, it actually asked
• 46:38
  this question the wrong way. Or it didn't know
• 46:40
  this information as well as I know it. And I'm
• 46:41
  like, think about that for a minute. You're more
• 46:43
  an expert than AI is on that topic. And then
• 46:45
  also it shows, I guess, students especially,
• 46:48
  it shows them that it's not always accurate.
• 46:49
  But it always is a quick way to make connections.
• 46:51
  So again, using trivia and kind of expanding
• 46:53
  the AI element of it. I call it my own personal
• 46:55
  trivia is the name of the game. But it's a fun
• 46:58
  one to do because, again, it's very light. It's
• 47:00
  a good introductory one, too, for teachers that
• 47:02
  are a little hesitant. But again, we all are
• 47:04
  experts at something and your students are too.
• 47:06
  Probably Roblox or probably MrBeast, the YouTube
• 47:09
  guy or whatever. But still, they're expert at
• 47:12
  something much like those first graders way back
• 47:14
  in 2006 when we did that inquiry based challenge.
• 47:17
  But yeah, that's a fun. Anyway, thanks for bringing
• 47:20
  up the bacon. I honestly have not done the bacon
• 47:23
  in. In years, uh, I don't, did we do that was
• 47:26
  back in 2019. That was the year I probably had
• 47:30
  to really dig back deep into my Twitter feed
• 47:33
  to find that. So it could have for you for still
• 47:35
  having a Twitter feed, by the way, cause I have
• 47:37
  mine, but it's like, I post stuff on there and
• 47:39
  it's like, is anybody still on anybody? Is this
• 47:41
  thing still on? I don't know. Oh yeah. It's funny.
• 47:45
  Funny how things change over time with that.
• 47:47
  But yeah, that, that was a great, then it was
• 47:48
  impact edu. That might've been the year was the
• 47:50
  impact edu, right? Yeah, it could have been right
• 47:53
  in that time where it was transitioning Yeah
• 47:55
  from one to the other and then it just did it
• 47:57
  died out They don't do it. So the state doesn't
• 47:59
  do a conference anymore. No, we don't have a
• 48:01
  statewide conference in Minnesota anymore It's
• 48:03
  it's unfortunate. I don't know but SW right David
• 48:09
  your don't you guys host something to every year
• 48:11
  SWWC? I feel like I've seen yeah. Yep. So now
• 48:14
  we do We we actually both do so like ECMEC has
• 48:18
  one that they do in the summertime In August
• 48:21
  and then we have IT squared. It's called now.
• 48:24
  It's been I think this is our 20th year now guys
• 48:27
  Yeah. So I miss putting on events. I mean, we
• 48:30
  used to do iPad Palooza here in Austin and then
• 48:32
  we had iPad Palooza, Minnesota, which was actually
• 48:34
  the first spinoff. Um, and, and just hosting
• 48:37
  events. And I mean, it's, it's exhausting, but
• 48:39
  also rewarding. I talked to, uh, Jennifer Womble
• 48:41
  at FETC every year. And I'm always like, I don't
• 48:43
  know how she does it, but she stays out late.
• 48:45
  And then the next morning she's up on the keynote
• 48:47
  stays introducing the keynote speaker. And I'm
• 48:48
  like, you must have some sort of magical elixir.
• 48:51
  Cause I'm like, I just crossed a big five Oh.
• 48:53
  So like my, my recovery time ain't what it used
• 48:55
  to be. Let's just say that. All right, so Carl,
• 48:59
  we do this always with our guests at the end
• 49:01
  of our show, and we like to do a little lightning
• 49:05
  round section. And so you can give whatever response
• 49:08
  you want. So it could be real quick, one word,
• 49:09
  or it could be if you want to dive in a little
• 49:12
  further, you can. So the first question is going
• 49:15
  to be, what PD actually changes practice? This
• 49:20
  will be aligned with what I talked about with
• 49:21
  students, which is voice and choice. And I think
• 49:24
  we don't do this enough in PD. Let the teachers
• 49:26
  actually have some decision, make it flexible,
• 49:28
  make it adaptable. So some teachers might want
• 49:29
  direct instruction. Some might want to work on
• 49:31
  a little something by themselves. So I guess
• 49:33
  giving them those choices I think is important
• 49:35
  too. And I feel like whenever I've done that,
• 49:37
  those have always been the ones that have been
• 49:38
  my highest rated for my staff, for PD. Yeah,
• 49:43
  time to try. Sorry, David. Time to try. Yeah,
• 49:48
  time to try. Yeah, they yes. Yeah, I feel like
• 49:51
  we are. Yeah, I know. And it's already because
• 49:53
  I like to talk. Obviously you guys have experienced
• 49:55
  that today. But so for me, it's like when I talk
• 49:58
  less, they do more. It's it's good. They kind
• 50:00
  of sometimes teachers hesitate. They're like,
• 50:02
  oh, just tell me what to do. You know, I don't
• 50:04
  want to sit and I want to sit back here and cut
• 50:05
  my little letters out and do my grade. But no,
• 50:07
  you're going to work today. Sorry. But then they
• 50:09
  end up enjoying it. What do you think is one
• 50:12
  tech skill teachers need more of going forward?
• 50:18
  I think it's weird. I think tech skill, and I
• 50:21
  immediately think of problem solving and adaptability,
• 50:23
  which aren't really tech skills. But I think
• 50:25
  with all technology, you have to have those skills.
• 50:29
  So in terms of whether it be AI, whether it be
• 50:31
  learning a new device, whatever it is, I would
• 50:34
  say being able to find answers on your own. or
• 50:38
  search for those answers. And by the way, Google
• 50:40
  is not necessarily my number one place anymore.
• 50:43
  I use ChatGBT to help me with a lot of stuff,
• 50:45
  you know? Hey, help me figure out how to align
• 50:46
  these spreadsheets the way I want them to be
• 50:48
  and give me some coaching on this. And so, yeah,
• 50:51
  I would say, you know, being able to find your
• 50:52
  own answers. What's one education trend that
• 50:57
  you hope disappears quietly? It won't be so quiet,
• 51:01
  but we talked about it earlier. I think we should
• 51:03
  get rid of the age based grade levels. I mean,
• 51:06
  grades I think also probably need to go away
• 51:08
  and testing. Those are the easy ones. But for
• 51:10
  me, God, it would be great to have some sort
• 51:12
  of amalgamation of multiple grades. There's some
• 51:15
  schools that have tried it and like private schools
• 51:17
  and charter schools. But yeah, I get rid of get
• 51:19
  rid of just like everybody's six years old, so
• 51:21
  everybody has to go to first grade. No, let's
• 51:23
  change that up. What's something you've changed
• 51:25
  your mind about over, say, like the last five
• 51:28
  years or so? Well, I have teenagers now So five
• 51:37
  years ago I didn't for now. I had three of them.
• 51:39
  They didn't just show up. So I would say One
• 51:43
  thing I think I probably didn't Understand enough
• 51:46
  was the complexity of a teenage mind with the
• 51:48
  hormones that are built into it. And so having
• 51:50
  some more patience for that That's something
• 51:53
  I would say tell my former self. I've learned
• 51:55
  it but it's taken me a lot of time. Yeah And
• 51:57
  I think teachers that work with middle school
• 51:59
  kids and high school kids, I always applaud them.
• 52:00
  It's just incredible, incredible to be able to
• 52:03
  do that work. But yeah, have respect for them.
• 52:05
  I think that's the big thing for those kids.
• 52:06
  They're not adults yet, but treat them like a
• 52:08
  little bit like adults and they'll be awesome.
• 52:12
  If you had to give a TED talk on something that
• 52:14
  was not education or tech, what would you choose?
• 52:19
  I would say how to host a really good party.
• 52:25
  I'm a big fan. I work with lots of people in
• 52:28
  our area here. We do a Super Bowl party that's
• 52:31
  like got two or three hundred people in it. I
• 52:32
  host a crawfish boil every year that brings and
• 52:35
  how those the part of the Ted talk would be not
• 52:37
  just about the party, but how it brings the community
• 52:39
  together. everybody brings in a resource, everyone
• 52:42
  brings in a side dish, everybody brings in part
• 52:44
  of their culture and celebrates all of that.
• 52:46
  And so that's kind of the underlying part of
• 52:48
  that. But yeah, definitely I'm a big believer
• 52:49
  in creating this party fun experience and atmosphere,
• 52:52
  which is, which some of my keynotes turn in to
• 52:54
  be, or just doing the bacon all the time. Just
• 52:56
  doing the bacon. Yeah, let's go. What if AI disappeared
• 53:01
  tomorrow? What do you think we should have learned
• 53:03
  from that moment? I think for me, it would be,
• 53:08
  you know, It wasn't really about the AI, it turned
• 53:12
  out. It turned out it was always about us. We
• 53:14
  were the ones that created it. We were the ones
• 53:16
  that put the biases into it. And we're the ones
• 53:17
  that get what we want out of it. And so looking
• 53:19
  at it, AI is very much a reflection of ourselves.
• 53:22
  And so looking at it, if it went away and saying,
• 53:24
  what did we learn about ourselves from that?
• 53:26
  What were our goods and what were our bads that
• 53:28
  we got out of it? I think that would be it. What
• 53:32
  piece of old school tech still deserves respect?
• 53:37
  So many ways I could go with this. I'm going
• 53:39
  to say this one's not really, I mean, I did use
• 53:42
  this in a classroom, but not necessarily for
• 53:44
  EdTech, but a boombox. I miss the good boombox.
• 53:48
  You remember the big, they had the lights and
• 53:50
  the big, you put it on your shoulder and you
• 53:52
  had the tape deck. Yes. Actually, I I'm tempted
• 53:56
  to buy one recently I've been shopping for one
• 53:57
  because I have some tapes that I found and I
• 53:59
  want to show my kids how to use it But I'm afraid
• 54:01
  the tapes won't work But yeah, that's I guess
• 54:04
  that's old -school tech not oh super old -school
• 54:06
  not like a pencil But although the pencil was
• 54:08
  handy when your tape got messed up kids. Let
• 54:10
  me just tell you that's how yes They rewind it
• 54:13
  Well, we were we are kind of in this space now
• 54:16
  where what's old is new again. So yeah, it's
• 54:18
  coming back now. It's now it's Bluetooth enabled
• 54:20
  and it's got a CD, but I saw the one I'll probably
• 54:23
  buy it and take my money. So I know how important
• 54:27
  music is to to what you do, and I know and as
• 54:31
  obviously being a part of some of those sessions
• 54:34
  like how it's really using to liven up the audience,
• 54:37
  you know, so. What are your current crowd pleasers
• 54:40
  when it comes to, like, what songs are you playing
• 54:43
  now for that experience? Yeah, well, Cary Aoki
• 54:46
  has grown big. I've actually got a keynote that's
• 54:49
  got probably 100 of them that I've created. And
• 54:52
  what I do is I'll pick a few based on now the
• 54:54
  location. So like if I know I'm in New York,
• 54:56
  it was interesting. I showed like... the New
• 54:59
  York buildings and I said what song do you think
• 55:00
  this is and I was like and everybody you know
• 55:02
  there's like a thousand songs about New York
• 55:04
  but what I've been doing is you guys will appreciate
• 55:06
  this because it comes from he comes from Minnesota
• 55:08
  is I'll show uh I'll start playing a song and
• 55:11
  it's purple rain I'll start playing the song
• 55:14
  and I'll say just just In this quick poll, just
• 55:16
  tell me what imagery pops into your mind when
• 55:18
  you hear this note. You know, it's the beginning
• 55:20
  of that guitar is real slow. And some people
• 55:22
  in the audience are too young to really know
• 55:23
  it. So they'll be like, I don't know. It's like
• 55:25
  a slow song. It's sad. Whatever other people
• 55:27
  like purple rain prints. And so what I do is
• 55:29
  I have them generate kind of a word cloud of
• 55:31
  what their words and emotions are around the
• 55:33
  song and say, OK, now let's take those words
• 55:34
  and create images from it. And so then we build
• 55:36
  out the images. If I just put in purple rain,
• 55:38
  let's see what happens. And then it just shows
• 55:39
  these kind of rainy landscapes with purplish.
• 55:42
  But what if we want we really want print? So
• 55:43
  let's say we want print. And then it's usually
• 55:46
  a guy with a crown on his head Prince capital
• 55:52
  P, some of that looks like the performer Prince
• 55:54
  capital P playing a guitar in the in the rain,
• 55:57
  you know, at Super Bowl at a halftime show, you
• 55:59
  know, and then it builds the image like, but
• 56:01
  see how we went from just like that one note
• 56:03
  of that one song, we all created a collaborative
• 56:06
  conversation about what the words were. And then
• 56:08
  we created images as a result of it. I go again,
• 56:10
  that was all crowdsourced just from us in this
• 56:11
  room. But like, so yeah, to me, that's been my
• 56:14
  step up lately is Prince's Purple Rain. And then
• 56:16
  of course, it was in the ending of Stranger Things,
• 56:18
  not to spoil it, but there was a moment in that.
• 56:21
  that was pretty iconic. I'm like, oh, of course
• 56:23
  you're going to use France and now I'm going
• 56:24
  to cry. Oh, so good. Still the best, by the way,
• 56:26
  best Super Bowl halftime performance of all time.
• 56:29
  I don't know. I don't know how we made it rain,
• 56:30
  but it rained. Yeah. So Carl, you know, we can't
• 56:35
  tell you how thankful we are to have you on the
• 56:37
  show here, but before we let our guests go, you
• 56:39
  know, give you the floor. What do you have? Do
• 56:42
  you have things that are coming up that you would
• 56:43
  like to promote or contact information you would
• 56:47
  like us to tag in the descriptions that we can
• 56:51
  add to help promote the things that you've got
• 56:53
  going. Yeah, absolutely. KarlHooker .com is my
• 56:57
  website. I just did some rebranding on it this
• 56:59
  last month. Most of my stuff is on there. I do
• 57:03
  a lot of work with future -ready schools. Actually,
• 57:04
  future -ready schools has a couple of things
• 57:06
  coming up, including something for rural districts.
• 57:08
  They just announced that they got a grant for
• 57:11
  rural school districts to work on AI leadership
• 57:13
  readiness. Let me see if I can find the link
• 57:16
  for that. Adam has been texting me some stuff
• 57:18
  this morning. So if he's got it, I'll send it
• 57:19
  to you guys. But we're also doing our leadership
• 57:21
  boot camp, which is just more of a national thing.
• 57:23
  It's a virtual one that's coming up. We're working
• 57:25
  on getting funding for that. Right now, you have
• 57:26
  to pay to get in with your team. But last year,
• 57:29
  we were able to get a grant funded. So we're
• 57:31
  trying to get all this. We want to make it as
• 57:33
  free as possible for schools because we know
• 57:34
  they don't have the funding for it as well. So
• 57:37
  keep an eye out for those things. And the Undisrupted
• 57:39
  podcast with me and Adam is out there. I just
• 57:41
  did the second edition of Learning Evolution,
• 57:43
  which is my AI book, because once you write an
• 57:45
  AI book, Guess what? It becomes obsolete the
• 57:47
  second you print it. So I've updated it three
• 57:50
  times. And this last one was I had 52 extra pages
• 57:53
  of content. So Amazon said you have to make it
• 57:56
  a new edition. So it's my second edition of that.
• 57:58
  Yeah. And just kind of traveling around, speaking,
• 58:01
  hopefully get up to Minnesota one of these days
• 58:03
  again, because I love it up there. Yeah. Yeah.
• 58:05
  Well, we'd be excited to have you back up in
• 58:07
  this this neck of the woods here. So thank you
• 58:10
  guys so much for having me on. Yeah. Thanks,
• 58:12
  bro. Thanks for listening to integrate this.
• 58:16
  Want to take your learning further? Head over
• 58:18
  to our YouTube channel for quick tutorials, deep
• 58:21
  dives, and more edtech tips you can use right
• 58:24
  away. Don't forget to subscribe and catch new
• 58:27
  podcast episodes every Thursday on Apple, Spotify,
• 58:32
  or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next
• 58:34
  time, keep exploring, keep innovating, and keep
• 58:38
  integrating this.