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The Exponential Individual with Eric Patel · Humanity Working

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's the question of what are you gonna do with that info, right?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna actually use this and apply it?
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: And are you gonna track it and get some kind of benefit or ROI of that?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Not just for you, right, but for others in your life who you're trying to make an impact on.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Hey everyone, Paul here.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Today's episode of the Way Too Busy podcast features Eric Patel.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Every so often at Billion Minds, we discover what we call a personal effectiveness superhero, somebody who's put in the time and effort to make themselves as effective as possible every single day.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Eric is one of them.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Eric's journey and inspiration stem from losing his job at a startup and a deep exploration of exponential organizations.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: He's taken his learning about these organizations and he's researched how it applies to individuals.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now he uses these techniques every day in his own life.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I would love to hear about what got you to this point.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: What were the what's the background?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: What are the highlights?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's always easier to see the path when you're at the end of it, but I'm curious as to what you think were the most um interesting parts that got you to where you are today.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, thanks very much, Paul.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: Really great to be here.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'd like to go back maybe a couple of years, right around when the pandemic started.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think, like so many people, we were sat in our ways.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: We had our habits.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: I was working a full-time job like many other people, and my company was not able to secure next round of financing, and this was right when the lockdown started.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: They made the hard decision of letting go people from their US and UK offices, including myself and my entire QA team.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I was left asking the question, what to do now?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I've always been an entrepreneur at heart, and it wasn't too long after that, in the summer of 2020, being inspired by the Exponential Organizations book, that I formed Boston EXO.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: And since then, it's been quite a ride.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we started to provide services to help organizations.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: We quickly pivoted to help startup founders and entrepreneurs and small businesses through Boston EXO Labs.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then if that wasn't enough, being into self-improvement, personal success, self-care, I put together a little workshop that I was just going to do for myself.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then I asked again the question, would there be anybody else who would want to join me?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: And that kind of gave the rebirth of Regenerate 365, which is sort of our flagship boot camp program.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: And at the same time, being inspired by the book, Exponential Organizations, I asked the question, could this apply to individuals and exponential individuals, or EXI was born.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: And ever since then, it's just been an amazing two-plus year ride.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna get into a lot more detail about what um exponential organizations are and exponential individuals, etc., as well.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm I'm really struck by that that first part of the uh of the description.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you're talking about it as a as the starting point being a point when you were let go.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, people deal with that all the time, right?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of talk right now about you know the great resignation, but you know, there's also, you know, every day people lose their jobs.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk about what that felt like uh in the moment?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um had you been, you know, is this something that happened to you previously?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Was it something you're unfamiliar with?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then um looking back on it, um, what does it feel like now?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's a great question.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, they say throughout your career you'll have multiple career tracks, jobs, positions, industries.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sort of the poster child for that.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, when you look at my background uh mostly in software testing, software quality assurance, have also a training track, and a few other things within information technology.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm accustomed to shorter-term job assignments, whether it's full-time or contracting.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: So while I wasn't completely surprised, of course I was utterly disappointed, as were I think the rest of us who were surprised that day.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: And this was after about less than a two-week period when they sent everybody home to work from home until further notice.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think one of my strengths is dealing with adversity and being persistent, and so I knew exactly what to do.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was certainly looking for another opportunity, but then I decided, again, in my career, having started up companies in the past, this is what I wanted to do in Boston EXO was born.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now looking back on it after coming up on our two-year anniversary now at Boston EXO, and all the people I've met from around the world, the amazing projects we've had to work on, including some I've already just mentioned, and more to come that we have in the pipeline, if I were to go back, I would do it exactly the same.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's so interesting.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is something that we've dealt with quite a lot in terms of the people that we work with at Billion Minds.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um one of the one of the ways in which these sort of major life events happen is that we choose them ourselves.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, if we you know decide to leave our job and go pick another one, that's a major life event.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: But other times, those just happen to us.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: And um it is extremely true to say that when these when these things happen to us, um as often as not, um, it can result being in being a positive thing versus a negative thing.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um because what it is, is it's an opportunity to recalibrate, it's an opportunity to be able to uh to do different things, it's an offer opportunity to re-evaluate in a way that a lot of people have uh have have not been not done previously, right?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it forces you to reevaluate.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: And frequently, as that one door closes, other doors are that already were open are now seen to be open.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really interesting to s uh to to see it from the perspective of where you started and where you are now.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um let's uh let's get into that exponential organization.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you you're the chief innovation officer of Boston EXO, and you mentioned about being inspired by the book.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um many people um have heard us reference um exo exponential organizations previously on this podcast.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: But for those that have not, could you describe a little bit about how this came about um and uh and almost you know what is an exponential organization?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: So based on the book and their authors, what they did was they looked at a lot of what these startup unicorn companies have been doing right, Silicon Valley and other places in the world.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: And what they found were a number of things, including their mindset and their thinking, not linearly but exponentially, and not of scarcity, but of abundance.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that's tough for a lot of people because we are constantly in a fight or flight mode, thinking that things are truly limited on this planet.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: When if you look at it from a different standpoint, some of these resources just aren't.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: And there are lots of examples of this.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: So they identify different characteristics or traits that these companies do well, and half of them are how they access abundance, and the other half are how they manage abundance.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: So an exponential organization is one whose, let's say, impact or results are really large, you know, up to about, let's say, 10x compared to their peers, because they're leveraging organizational techniques, including technologies of digital transformation.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: And part of this EXO movement involves exponential technologies of all the ones that we know about AI, machine learning, all the new tech that's out there and will continue to be out there.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yes, these companies do harness and leverage the tech as well, which gives them a competitive advantage and sometimes just crazy billions of dollars of valuation.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, to make that a bit real for people, can you give can you give us a couple of examples of you know names that people will know of companies that would be considered to be exponential organizations?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: So in the book, the authors characterize sort of ten factors that need to be in play to become an exponential organization.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And in reality, you only need about four of them.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Most of the time, the companies that get the press are because they found something really cool and awesome, right?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we all know about the names like Tesla and Adobe and Google and Apple and you know, all of these major popular companies that are out there that are thriving today, that have done well in the markets, profits, sales, etc.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: But they also, again, have a very different way of thinking.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: They're not fighting for scarce resources, they are thinking about abundance.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, they have the numbers to prove it, right, with sales and profits.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of these companies are still around today and they're constantly evolving, they're changing, they're not going the way of Polaroid, Blockbuster, and a lot of these other companies that were too slow to change, never changed, and became sort of a victim of their own circumstances.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's great, thank you.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think just to help people get their heads around it just a little bit more when we're talking about things that are abundant.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what would be examples of of that?
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: So a couple of examples.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Look at what Airbnb and their competitors have done with the plethora of housing.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: So you're renting space that's normally available if people want to rent their properties out tour vacationers, for example.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Similarly, what Lyft and Uber are doing with drivers and automobiles, leveraging the plethora of vehicles that aren't always in use.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you look at these kinds of opportunities, you could see that there really is a way to think differently about business models.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because even though your Cash Cow may be doing well today, and then I always say, unless you're like a company like Zildjian, who have been making drum cymbals for 400 years, your business model is going to change.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really a question of how proactive do you want to be about it?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to wait and see what happens and be reactive?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you want to really try to be innovative and try to come up with some edge and disruption innovation teams to come up with your next best thing in Cash Cow?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: The Way2Busy podcast is brought to you by Billion Minds.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: We've all heard about the great resignation, but what does it mean for your team, your group, or even your organization?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Often it starts with employees losing their work mojo as they try to perform unstructured, ambiguous work while working from home or in the hybrid workplace.
• 12:24
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• 12:26
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• 12:33
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• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I'm particularly interested in, and I think people will be interested in in this podcast, particularly, is that you guys have taken that concept of um an organization working in this way, and you're you're really trying to apply it to the uh to the individual, which is uh i.e.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: the the movement that you have as your co-founding exponential uh individuals.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think people probably by now they're kind of getting what you mean by exponential organization, but what do we mean by an exponential individual?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: What does what does that even mean?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a great question, I think.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, to a large extent, we're still trying to figure that out.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: But what we've what we've come up with, release for now, is someone who is kind of full-brained, who has habituated and even automated their own innate human potential so that they can be their best literally moment by moment.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: And by accessing and tapping this abundant human potential that we have, you are looking to contribute and serve and make your mark and leave your legacy, impacting others and on the world.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: And this last part I think is really important living a fulfilling life.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: We all know people that are successful who are miserable.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Some people think once I become wealthy, rich, well off, etc., I will be happy or things will be better and I can do what I want to do.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: And while might that be true to a certain extent, there are a number of people that are truly not happy, despite their outward signs of external success and fame and fortune.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: So we really wanted to encapsulate both parts here of yes, there's the achievement potential, the performance potential, the productivity potential, all that kind of left brain stuff, right, that makes people high performers and unstoppable, but also to the right brain stuff.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: We want people to be conscious and aware and contributing and knowing that there is a bigger picture and a higher order as well.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: So as you're combining those two elements, um there's obviously a lot of thought that has that has gone into that.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm curious, did that did you always think of it in that way?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: What was the journey to kind of get to there?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Luckily, we have an awesome team from around the world that have been contributing for the past year on doing this.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: We spent a lot of 2021 doing a lot of laying the groundwork and foundation work and brainstorming and canvases and all kinds of work, and really it took us a little bit of a while to get to this definition, but we do have people that you know are soul seekers or soul mates, and that you know, they they know that there's more to life than just the materialistic external visual stuff that we all perceive.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so we want it again to have a more comprehensive, fulfilled, wholehearted approach to what it takes to be an EXI.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: And we tie this in with EXO because it's hard to have a high-functioning, high-performing team if those team members are kind of not firing in all cylinders.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: And therefore, you take that up to the next level at the organizational level.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: How can you be one of these unicorns and be an exponential organization if you don't already have people who are exponential individuals?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: So the concept of abundance in the in the context of an exponential individual, is that more about tapping into potential that you've previously in yourself, or is it more about tapping into others through community and networks and and things of that nature?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's definitely a little of both, right?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: We always say you have to uh put your oxygen mask on first, right?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_02: To get your story straight.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure you're bringing your A game, make sure you're taking care of yourself before you can possibly help others, right?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: We see this um with parenting, um, in schools, even in the workplace as well.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so we really feel that it's super important to make sure that your mindset is squared away.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: We we think a lot of it actually starts in your head.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that has to do with what we've been talking about abundance and your potential.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: US Navy SEALs will even tell you that most humans aren't even using 2x, 5x of what they can do, right?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: They even go beyond sometimes 10x.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And we I think we all do have various forms and dimensions of possibilities and potentials.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you see this sometimes when people get stretched and stressed and pushed and pulled, like we all have been doing, more so than normal, over the last couple years, and how many people have stepped up to the plate?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: How many people have surprised themselves?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: I know I have.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's very interesting.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's sort of a link between some of the what you just said and some of the research that we've done at Billion Mines.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: We spend quite a lot of our time um researching elite athletes.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the reason that we research them is because they've uh generally found a way to be effective, not just on a, you know, for the next week or the next week and a half or whatever it is, but over periods of years to sustainably get the best out of themselves.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: One of the really interesting things about um uh elite performance from athletes is that um, yes, in some cases there's, you know, certain attributes, physical attributes um that they will have that are that in some cases they were born with or you know, that uh that are certain advantages they have, right?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, if you're in the MBA, most likely you're pretty tall.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: So there are certain uh there are certain advantages that you have along uh along those lines.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: But what is particularly interesting is that when you look at the output that um elite athletes can get out of themselves, in many cases it's as much about um the the sort of safety barriers that we have on our own performance, as in we can't push ourselves beyond a certain level.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they found a way to kind of up that level, the level at which they will um that they will push through and then get to uh ultimately.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: So they can get to a they can, in other words, not only do they have something that is is sort of a a bigger bucket to pull from, as it were, but they can pull more from it at the same time, right?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that it's really interesting, and you use that analogy of Navy SEALs, they learn how to do that, they learn how to kind of go beyond these natural guardrails that we have, and then of course, ourselves, right?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Through challenging times.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's how we that's how people often learn about themselves, is when they go through challenging times, they respond to those challenging times and they do things that they didn't think that they could do.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: The Way Too Busy podcast is brought to you by Billion Minds.
• 20:31
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• 20:34
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• 20:36
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• 20:39
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• 20:51
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• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: But let's bring it back and make it uh pretty personal for you.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, one of the reasons why we got you on this podcast in the first place is that at Billion Minds, we tend to uh spend a lot of time figuring out how people go about optimizing their day um and just being more effective on a day-to-day basis.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and w what we find is that the vast majority of the population struggle with this, and there's a small subset of people that have kind of more got it figured out.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And what's intriguing about them is that they've that just didn't happen by accident, right?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: They've spent a lot of time figuring out how to how to do that and how to optimize themselves.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really curious as to how you've taken some of these principles um and used it to try to optimize.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: Eric, tell us a little bit about that.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we yeah, you're absolutely right, it's work.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's where you lose a lot of people.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Either they don't want to, they don't have they don't think they have the time.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: They may be too tired during the day, or whatever the excuses are, right?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it I think it even starts with your upbringing.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: I was even thinking about this recently.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, your parents, right?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Your family, how you grew up.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: My dad used to have an expression called, Where there's a will, there's a way.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that spirit of persistence and dedication and discipline, I think, among other things has helped.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think when you become an adult and there's responsibilities and other people involved and family members and work and everything, then that's really the real test, right?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: You're in the real world now.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really up to you as to what kind of life you want to live.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: Easier said than done, of course.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think for me, as I mentioned, it does start in my head.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I've thought a certain way for a long time.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that way is not a way of blame or excuses or negativity or being upset or any of those kind of negative emotions, you know.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think another thing I do is a lot of kind of inherent self-coaching.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: Being able to talk myself through things, think through things clearly, and most importantly, kind of take the actions congruent with my thoughts and my values.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: And perhaps it even starts beyond that from a purpose standpoint.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: Within this EXO community, and back to the book, there is something called a massive transformative purpose.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's how you'd like to see the world, let's say, 30 years from now.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: So mine is global performance improvement enhancement.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to be able to help others and see the world all be better at what we're doing, not in zombie cruise control, autopilot mode that myself included was in not too long ago, but really being proactive, a little bit of what we were talking earlier about, let's say when you lose your job, and be ready for your next move and perhaps make that next move proactively, and really just taking charge of your life.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: There are lots of other habits that I've developed as well, most recently, even just doing a meditation, which I was really never too much of a big fan before, although I was doing Tony Robinson's priming technique, which is a kind of form of you know guided meditation daily.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: I also have various lots of tools I use, including the high performance planner, which really gets me to focus on the six habits from the book, high performance habits, and really just doing a lot of like rehearsal and visualization and you know deep work, deep practice, as you talked about.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you do have to make a constant effort at this and be committed to it and be persistent with it, because there will be ups and downs.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: Athletes, as we talked about a few minutes ago, know this.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: And when they compete, they're are not necessarily competing with other athletes, but with themselves, right?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: So you're competing with the best version of yourself today so you can get better for tomorrow.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think what's so important about what you just said is that there's a recognition in that that um, yep, Eric, you're doing everything you can to figure this out, but you are a you're a human bile, you're a human being, you're a biological system.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that biological system has times where it's acting at its peak, and it has times where it's not.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: And athletes really understand that.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: They've kind of learned how to, you know, through periodization across uh across weeks and months, through um, you know, training according to um to the natural rhythms of their body and all this kind of stuff, is a is a huge, huge piece of this.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And making sure you get enough rest and recuperation to make the best out of yourself is is extremely important.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um what we encounter, particularly in the workplace, particularly in corporate, um, in the corporate workplace of today, is almost like a almost like an intentional head in the sand when it comes to that, right?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like a like organizations have a strong tendency still to treat their people as though they they don't have any of these characteristics.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and unfortunately, when that happens at a um you know at an organizational level, it can lead to rampant burnout, it can lead to quitting, it can lead to a whole to a whole bunch of different things.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I love the I love the recognition that you have there of the fact that it's not it's it's not going to be perfect every day.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're not uh that no human being is a machine, and that it's and and understanding that and riding that wave is really what helps you perform better on a day-to-day basis, a week-to-week basis, the month-to-month basis.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um Okay, so what we talked about there, I I really like in terms of its high-level uh high-level impact.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: But one of the challenges I think that people who go through this journey on their own is they read a ton of books, maybe some of them apply, maybe some of them don't apply, uh don't apply, and they get a ton of theory, but then there's the question of how do you go about um putting that theory into practice?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: So you already talked a little a little bit about that, but I'd love to know on a uh as to how you've managed to kind of turn this into behaviors, a set of behaviors that you've in that you've embedded every day.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Can you share with us a little bit more about that?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: So if I were to sort of sum it up in one word, it would be habits and maybe a quick second place discipline, right?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: And uh you talked about that, you know, the theory versus the practicality of it, and it's so true, people do read all kinds of books, myself included.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's the question of what are you gonna do with that info, right?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna actually use this and apply it?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: And are you gonna track it and get some kind of benefit or ROI of that, not just for you, right, but for others in your life who you're trying to make an impact on.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it's true.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, going back to the book I referred to earlier, high performance habits, there were so many action items in this book.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was compelled to extract them all.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I have lists of the one we're s we're supposed to be doing daily and weekly and monthly, etc.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I use those as checklists, you know.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot to do.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't obviously get to them, and obviously the planner helps as well to stay focused on those, but again, it's that discipline, right?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, making time for stuff, scheduling it down, using a calendar, staying disciplined, forming those habits, right?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: Becoming the person who.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: So an example is my fitness routine, which started many now I can say kind of years ago.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I am still on a trend where it's been a Monday through Friday workout every week, not missing a day, for over two and a half years.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: And if you would have told me even I would break six months at that, I would have busted a gut.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm now have become the person who exercises on a weekday.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's also, again, part of a habit that's been ingrained, and I don't have excuses, and I get it done, and it's now part of my daily routine, right?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: And before you know it, once stuff becomes automatic and it's you know in your bloodstream and it becomes a habit, it's a lot easier to do because you don't feel forced to do it and you want to do it, whether it's you don't want to break the trend, or you know, ultimately it's really good for you from a health standpoint.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think the only thing that we would add uh that we've seen in our research is personalization.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: So what we what we mean by that is that um you've found the habits and you've found a way to kind of instill the discipline in you, but there's also this question of like there are hundreds, thousands of different ways to to kind of skin this cat.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's thousands of different ways in which uh of different approaches that you can use, and some of them are in some books and some of them are in other books, and some books contradict other books and all that kind of stuff.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: And part of the reason that they do is obviously they're written from the perspective of the uh of the author, and um, and it's typically working for the author and the group of people around the author, but it may not work for you.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so finding the things that do, finding the things that that resonate, um, and understanding enough about yourself to know what will work with you and with the unique individual that is you, um, is a huge part of it as uh as well.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that's we often get that question.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: We get the question from folks saying, okay, well, why is it that I cannot follow the guidance in this book or that book or something along those lines?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: And in some cases it's because you just haven't put the effort in to to build the discipline or you or you haven't done enough work yet to instill it as a habit.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: But in other cases, it's just because it's not going to work with your particular type of brain, right?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that I think is is sort of at least what we've seen in our research, kind of like the third uh the third aspect of it, which is uh which is an important aspect.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Would you agree with that?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely, right.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there is no one size fits all, right?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: As you just mentioned, we are all different people, and sure, I could share everything that works for me, and maybe some people would get just a small percentage out of that for even some of the root causes you just described.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the important point is to just try something that's going to work, and when it does work, kind of stick with it and maintain that.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have to change it or drop it or find something else that either is going to work or going to make you better, then just be open to that.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: And on that topic, what what steps have you taken at this point to really personalize this for you?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: You touched on one already, your your uh MTP.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh sure, right.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: So um it kind of ties in with my mission statement, which is to help others thrive.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I do that through three ways: unwavering loyalty, selfless service, and lifelong friendship.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: And my MTP again is just sort of uh global personal excellence empowerment, right?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: We we want people to be like all the help you guys are doing through Billion Minds and other contributors from over the decades, right?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: Going back to even the early days of Jim Rowland and and trying to be the best version of you so you could help others, serve them, and really at the end of the day leave your mark and legacy and leave this world better than when you entered it.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think also, too, thinking about not just your purpose or your purposes, you could certainly have more than one, but also your virtues.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I recently took the um virtues uh test from via character, and uh my top ones were hope, curiosity, leadership, honesty, and love.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: And some of those were a little bit of a surprise.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think if I would have taken this a couple years ago, some of them might have been different.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: They're all good ones, right?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: No matter which ones came in on your list, they're all good ones.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the curiosity one in particular, you know, we were talking about how do I personalize this.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, part of what makes me me is I think like many of us, we're constant learners.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: We know we want to do continuous education.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Knowing that we don't know everything, perfection is not the goal, but we do want to kind of get better.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know about the old 1% a day and how much better you can get with that.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this notion, this commitment to bettering yourself so you could help others and have them become better is worthwhile.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the MTP part of it, I'm actually really curious.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: It when you think about it, underlying all of that, right, to get to the point that you know that that's what you want to do in life, that's that's probably quite hard, right?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think a lot of people don't even know enough about themselves to know how they want to impact the rest of the world.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: So what was the process that you went through in order to be able to get to the succinct description of what you what you want to do, what impact you want to have?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think for me I started tactically and then went more longer term strategically.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I worked on my mission statement thanks to Stephen Covey and the seven habits, a great way to do that.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then I looked at a longer-term horizon, a vision, a five-year statement, what my vision looks like, and then even beyond that, right?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like how really how do I want to make the impact in the world to have the world be a different and better place for people?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think I eventually came to that, just making every individual as best as they can be, and really just sort of capitalizing on again the potential that we all already have within us that can be unleashed, and that you can surprise yourself, and you really can do a lot more with higher quality for longer sustained periods of time, while keeping in mind the rest and the relaxation and the self-care and everything else you need to do because we do need to recharge and you can't be go, go, go, as we often do in the corporate world, and eventually suffer stress and depression and burnout and all the other symptoms there, right?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, as you said, we're not a machine, so we do have to kind of keep that in mind.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I think for me, I mean, there are some great tools that are out there now, the MTP Canvas, um, there's some great worksheets from Peter Diamantis and Abundance 360, where you can really walk through the process of what's your superpower, what do you bring to the table, who do you want to impact, and then ultimately if you're on this pathway, which you can set for yourself through big hairy audacious goals, b hags, or even some moonshots, where you can get to this place in the future with obviously the help of others and community and other people who share in your NTP to again make the world a better place than what it is today.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, what we found is that um just having that, right, having some form of massive transformational purpose, whether you call it that or not, but having something that is larger than yourself is actually in itself extremely motivating.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, many people will have read, and we've referenced it before, but will they've read Dan Pick's book drive and they talk about these three things autonomy, mastery, and purpose.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: On the purpose side, um, knowing that you're getting up every day and doing something to that that has an impact larger than yourself can be an extremely motivating tool.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: So ironically, um it actually helps you as an individual almost selfishly to have these larger uh these larger goals that uh that you're working towards, particularly, particularly as people are trying, attempting to do that amidst an extremely unstructured and ambiguous day.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I guess my follow-on question about that MTP is that there was obviously a time when you didn't have that.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: So have you noticed um have you noticed a change in terms of your overall effectiveness once you got really clear as to why you get up every day and go to work?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: Most certainly.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean that that old expression about what gets you out of bed in the morning.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it may not just be a what, but a who, right?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because at the end of the day, what are we here for, right?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, it's largely about people, the relationships I have with people, as well as experiences, right?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: What I want to do with people that I'm here.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, it's hard to imagine.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: I I I talked about the autopilot zombie cruise control mode that I think so many of us go through, and I think one of the symptoms of that is no idea of how you want to leave your your legacy and your mark, you know, what are they reading at your at your funeral as part of your eulogy, right?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: What's engraved on your tombstone, right?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: All different kinds of exercises we could do for that, and that really kind of gets you thinking, right?
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because as I say, life is short.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: So be able to think about really what are you doing today and what for, and for whom, and who are you trying to help ultimately?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: Some say we're here just to help others, right?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's really the purpose of life and and all that.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: So if you believe that, then maybe it's time to kind of get on board with that and come up with a purpose that you're driving to and thinking about and motivated by every day.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um so we talked you talked a little bit about superpowers, but nobody's great at everything.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: We all have superpowers and kryptonite.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: So what would you describe as your kryptonite?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think just as interestingly, what steps do you take to make sure that you're not derailed by that, by your kryptonite?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think for me, I have a tendency of by default saying yes and making stuff happen.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's good in a sense that as we talked earlier, you can get out of your comfort zone, you can physically do more things, you can do more quantity of things, and hopefully with equal to the same results.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think for me, sometimes it's a little too much.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and I I know it full well, and and it's happened even during these last couple years and in the past as well.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's hard to say no, I think, sometimes.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: And and now that I know again what my mission is and what my MTP is, it's congruent with that, right?
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: But we all, as you know, have limits, and our time is valuable, and we can't do it all, even though some of us would like to think that we can.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: So part of what I've been trying to do, and I think I've been doing a little better job at it, still a work in progress, is instead of the default yes, do the Warren Buffett default no.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then think about, okay, if you want to take this on, if I want to take this class, if I want to help this person, etc., what are those terms and conditions?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: What needs to change?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: What needs to drop so that I can actually do that, right?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you just keep piling stuff on, you kind of have the life that I had not too long ago.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I've been trying to do a better job at that.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think also, too, just the self-care, the appreciation, the recognition, and the rest and the relaxation, right?
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: Even just little celebrations for wins and accomplishments, etc.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the bigger context is just enjoying life more, having even more fun.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think when sometimes work doesn't feel like work, and it is fun, and it's enjoyable, it's great, right?
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't feel like work, but it's still work, which is different than you know, fun and really just enjoying yourself.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I've been trying to do a better job with that overall just taking better care of myself.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what I think is really interesting and what we found is that um knowing the most important and urgent things is is very important to do.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's also quite important to know what's not urgent and what's not important.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because many of us do take on too much, and we need to understand what are those first things that we can drop when we need to drop them.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so um it's really important for people to get to a point where, particularly in this current day and age, where there is a uh there's an understanding that you can uh that you can drop certain things versus try to do everything and then see your quality drop overall, uh, and half do a whole bunch of different things.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I love the way in which you're um you're thinking about all of that and you're understanding that you're not gonna be able to uh to do everything, both in terms of what you take on in the first place, and then ultimately what you can drop when you need to drop it.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's really good stuff.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um let's uh let's finish up.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'm one of the things I think I'm most curious about, and I know that um almost everybody listening to the podcast um will be curious about as well, is this sounds super cool, but quite a lot of work, right?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's quite a lot of work to get to a point where there is enough structure, where there is enough routine, where there is enough attention to well-being that you've got all of those things in place and you're maintaining that over time, and you're tweaking and adjusting as time goes by, and so on.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, what advice would you give to people that are looking to try to optimize themselves in the way that that you have?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there's certainly a lot to share here, in addition to I think what you know we've already mentioned.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, again, I always go back to what you're thinking about.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: What do you tell yourself?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: What's your self-talk like, what's your self-coaching like, right?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because whether you know it or not, thoughts are pretty powerful and we become what we think about most of the time.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: Which means that you do have to kind of guard your thoughts.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that includes what you take in, what you read, what you watch, what you see, conversations, TV, movies, etc.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: You have to kind of guard your mind, right?
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise it'll be taken over, as I think a lot of ours has over time.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: There's the work aspect that we've been talking about, right?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, just like with anything else, right?
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: A return on investment.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna invest something in something, time, energy, money, whatever, and hopefully you're gonna get something out of it, right?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's gonna benefit you and hopefully more importantly, others.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: So realizing that this is a you know, it's a job, right?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's work, it's effort, it requires discipline as well.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you have to do just what Nike says, like you have to just do it, right?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: And actions, as they say, speak louder than words.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so you can't just read books, right?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: You can't just take a course.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um it is it is a constant effort.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: You do need a team, right?
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: And and sometimes even just uh one person to be your accountability buddy might even do the trick for you, right?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about sort of different techniques here as well.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think what you guys are doing at Billion Minds are great.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, based on all the research you've done, the programs you have in place.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um people do need a little structure, and you just need to find something that works.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: And if you know what you guys offer works for people, then people should take advantage of that, you know.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Erica.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's been really, really great to talk to you today.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I know that our uh listeners will have got a lot out of it.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks very much.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: The Way Too Busy podcast was presented and produced by me, Matt Neal, and was brought to you by Billion Minds.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to get in touch with us, tweet us at Rising Billion or email us at WayTooBusy at billionminds.com.