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Building a Dream Team (Without a Payroll): How to Attract and Lead Rockstar Virtual Contractors · Serious Lady Business

• Leslie Youngblood (00:01) Welcome back to Serious Lady Business. I'm Leslie Youngblood, your host, feminist and founder of Youngblood MMC, a marketing media and content agency. And with us today is Natasha Golinski. Natasha is an award-winning web development and e-commerce agency founder, three-time nominee for Canada's Women of Influence Award, breast cancer butt kicker, and mom of three. She built a wildly successful remote team at On Purpose Projects. providing premium level web development support to right those wrongs and return working with a web team back to being the educational, empowering, excellent experience. It should have been right from the start. Natasha, welcome to Serious Lady Business. Natasha (00:45) Thanks for having me, Leslie, so excited. Leslie Youngblood (00:47) I am so excited. We were just talking before we started rolling about how women solopreneurs, entrepreneurs, the rise of remote working and how to attract the right contractors and the virtual team. And so today I'm really stoked to be talking with you. You've done it so amazingly with On Purpose Projects to build a dream team without that payroll and specifically virtual contractors. But before we kind of get into that, Natasha, I'd love to start at the beginning with you. ⁓ What inspired you to build on purpose projects and what problem were you originally trying to solve? Natasha (01:23) That is a great question. I was thinking about this a lot. I started the agency, I'm like the accidental agency owner, like completely accidental. What's that? I know, totally right. Leslie Youngblood (01:30) That's the name of your book. That should be the name of your book, the Accidental Agency Owner. Natasha (01:37) I stole that phrase from Jason Swank, who's another agency trainer. And he was just like, because I was a consultant in the nonprofit sector. I was a management consultant. And I had a client and he was like having some issues with his website. And he's like, hey, do think you could find someone to help me do my website? And I was like, yeah, sure. And I went to Upwork and I hired some guy in Bangladesh, no idea what I was doing. Leslie Youngblood (01:45) Yeah. Yeah. Natasha (01:58) brought him in, he helped with the project, and then my client had a friend and we did that one, and then it kind of evolved. it's sort of, so now 10 years later, I run a web development agency, but I have never yet to the Loo website. And so it's kind of funny, like I... Leslie Youngblood (02:06) Wow. Natasha (02:15) Most of my colleagues, most of my peers are agency owners or solopreneurs or work freelancers or something. And they're like, I think you're the only person I've ever met who never did the thing that you do. So it's kind of funny. I run this development agency, but I don't code. I have this joke. If I was on build a website, Survivor Island, I'd be the first one off the island. They'd be like, just go. You don't even know what's going on. Let's go. Leslie Youngblood (02:25) Mmm. The one site agency owner cannot do any, she's the first one off. Natasha (02:43) I can't. I can't. But that's the reason I've had to get really good at building teams. Because if someone doesn't come to work, I'm out of luck. So I can't step in. I don't know what to do. I have no idea what to do. So I've had to become really, really, really good at team building. Leslie Youngblood (02:48) This is it. Right, right, you can't step in. Natasha (03:02) for A, to make sure that the work gets done. Like I said, I can't jump in. I don't know how to code. don't know. And then also to have the consistency, that stability as a business. So I've had to become really good at team building. And we're a totally remote team, like you said. Leslie Youngblood (03:06) Thanks Natasha (03:18) But the reason now why I do it and why I've done it for 10 years is like, kind of like you said in the intro, like web development for most people is such a nightmare. It's such a, like everyone has that story of like the guy ghosted or the guy did a bad job or like he paid for this, but it wasn't what he wanted. and they have this experience. And so I just got so fed up of hearing that story. And I was like, no, like we can do this properly. We can make this, like you said, like it can be empowering and educational and exciting. And I love that how you said that. Leslie Youngblood (03:27) Mm-hmm. ⁓ Mmm. Natasha (03:48) Like, it should be, it's your business. Like, this should be cool, it should be fun, it should be empowering, it should be like uplifting, it shouldn't be like a drag. And so I think like, because I'm not a tech person, can... Leslie Youngblood (03:51) Right. Yeah. Natasha (04:02) I like to have that, I like to be able to relate to the human component of it, because a lot of developers are just technical, they don't really see the whole picture, right? And so I can, I just love taking that burden off people. I just think it's fun and it's, yeah, and I have a great crew and I'm like, I just love waking up to work with the people I work with and it's just, it's just fun. It's just one thing to do, yeah. Leslie Youngblood (04:05) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I think that's so great. And what I love so much too about your story, Natasha, is like you said, you're not a developer. You're not a web designer and yet you run a web agency. And I just think that speaks to anybody listening now or anybody out there. It's like you want to do something, but you don't have that particular skill. That's okay, because you're really great at building teams and project managing and you were solving problems that needed to be solved and you built a business from that. Right. And I think a lot of times we can trip ourselves up and be, what do I know about finance or what do I know about web development, right? Like, I don't know. But if you have the calling to do it and that pull and that recognition of there's a problem and I'm going to solve it for this person that can create a really amazing business and lifestyle because you guys have been, you know, on purpose has been around now for 10 years. I think that's so incredible. I love that. Natasha (05:00) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, you definitely don't need to know. Like I have a bookkeeper. I have no idea what she does. ⁓ I have like QA person. I have no idea what she does. I have team of developers. I have no idea what they do. Like I know what they do in theory, right? But I don't know how they do any of it. And I agree. But the part is, is like, you need all, all the people in all the seats on the bus, right? Like I can sell, I can do marketing. I can, so my role on the team is management marketing money. So, and Leslie Youngblood (05:24) Yeah. rights. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Natasha (05:45) Pre chemo, I was I was doing a lot more management now a lot less because I had to hire a project manager to replace me So now it's mostly marketing and money ⁓ But the fact is I've like kept everybody employed for ten years and I have more or less the same team since day one and so 100 % retention on my people with my people and Yeah, it's it's it's a really cool. It's fun Leslie Youngblood (06:04) Yeah. Yeah, so let's start there because that's really what we're talking about, right? You have this incredible remote team that's been with you for 10 years. Why do you think so many entrepreneurs struggle with hiring and retaining great virtual contractors? I think it's hard to find great people in person and in general, and it was pre-pandemic. Now with everybody being so remote, And then I love remote, right? I think it's just so much better for women specifically too to manage like work and work life balance, that which doesn't exist, but ⁓ right, like tell me a little bit about your perspective and why you feel it's difficult. Natasha (06:44) I know what you say. Well, I'm just trying to the lighting right, because I'm like, sorry. I just look kind of weird. Anyway, we'll live with it. So I'm like half my face. I can't even see it. I think most people, it all starts on the front end. It's like, if you're hiring someone, like right now, I need to make a new hire for another specific web development skill. OK. Leslie Youngblood (06:55) You look great. Mm-hmm. Natasha (07:12) I need to know what I want and it's kind of like I think a lot of people go into the world and they post a job on LinkedIn and they're like hey I'm looking for this whatever it is and they get like 200 applicants and they're all immediately stressed out like my god like how am I gonna sort this out and it's like okay no you need to know what you want like exactly what you want so it's kind of like you go in like a sniper like I want this not like you're shopping around you're not like wandering the aisles you're like no I am looking for this Leslie Youngblood (07:14) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mmm. No, no, no. Natasha (07:43) Like for me, I have certain things like I'll just be an example and please feel free to edit this if it's politically incorrect but like for me like I will not work with certain time zones. Like for example, if someone's three hours outside of my time zone I'm not gonna do it. Like unless they tell me they're working. I have more, I have more. I have more, I have more. But it's like. Leslie Youngblood (07:54) Mmm. I don't think that's politically incorrect. I was bracing myself there. Natasha (08:06) No, but it's like for my, for example, like there's certain cultures that don't jive very well with my personality type. And I know that. So I just kind of avoid certain cultures. There's certain cultures that do really, really well with my personality type. And I, and it's very easy to lead those people. Time zone. If you're not willing to work on my time zone, no. ⁓ Ideally, like in many cases, I'm looking to hire a woman if I can. ⁓ If someone is Leslie Youngblood (08:11) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Natasha (08:34) They have to have the right hard skills. They have to have the right people skills. They have to have the right communication skills. have to, there's so many factors. And so it's like, when I go into it, I already know what I want. So it's like, as soon as I see, okay, you live in the Ukraine or you live in India or you live in wherever, I can immediately be like, no, no, like no. And then if you are a WordPress developer, but I need Shopify, no. Like if I... Leslie Youngblood (08:40) Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mmm, no. Natasha (09:04) if you don't, aren't not willing to work on my time zone, no. Like, and so it's this filtering, it's this sorting, and it's like, but unless you're completely clear on what you want and what you're looking for, the price, the location, the gender, the, that's the politically incorrect part, like the, like, you gotta know. Leslie Youngblood (09:08) Right. Thank you. Natasha (09:25) what you want so you can filter it out because I think a lot of people what they do is they just like put out this curtain call. I don't know if that's the word curtain call call. Leslie Youngblood (09:31) Mm-hmm or cattle call cattle call Natasha (09:35) Yeah, exactly, whatever, they're just like, I need an assistant. And then like Leslie Youngblood (09:35) Yes Natasha (09:39) a thousand applicants and they're like, my God, who do I choose? And then they just kind of randomly like go through it. And then they pick someone that they like, but not necessarily has the skills. And it just becomes this circle of it didn't work, it didn't work, sucked. Like the person was so bad. But it's like, you have to know what you want. And then you also have to know how to assess for that. Leslie Youngblood (09:43) Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Natasha (10:02) Because for me in my job, that's a very interesting thing because I have no idea how to audit someone's code. Like, I don't know. Like, I don't know if you're any good. Like, how do I know if you're any good? Like, I don't know. So we've had to build these systems to assess someone's abilities. But it's like if you're hiring someone, like for example, most people their first hire is like a virtual assistant. And it's like, OK, but. Leslie Youngblood (10:07) Right. Right. Mmm. Mmm. sure. Natasha (10:26) what type of virtual assistant do you want? An accounting assistant, a marketing assistant, an admin assistant, a personal assistant? They're all different. It's not the same. And so you have to know, okay, what do you want this person to do? I want them to do my social media. I want them to do this. Okay, that's a marketing assistant. A virtual assistant is gonna check your inbox and organize your files. It's a different skill set. Leslie Youngblood (10:30) Mmm. Mmm. Sure. Right. Yeah. Natasha (10:51) So I think that's just number one is clarity. Total clarity of like, I'm going to go find what I want. And then instead of just like, ⁓ my God, you know, so I don't know, that's where most people like make a mistake is they have to be intentional and being honest with yourself. Like this is the part that I think might be politically incorrect, but it's like. Leslie Youngblood (10:53) Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Natasha (11:15) You have to be honest with yourself about who you are, how you work, what you want, what works for you. Like, I'm all for diversity, I'm all for everything, but also I think as leaders we have to be aware of what we need to feel supported in what we're doing. And I'll give you an example like... Leslie Youngblood (11:20) Mm-hmm. Natasha (11:36) I'm a really, require my number one non-negotiable is you have to be a good communicator. Like you cannot go more than 90 minutes without checking Slack. Like, and it might be in 90 minutes, there's nothing there, but I need you to like, if you're coding, I need you to send an alarm on your phone and look up every 90 minutes. I might need to move you. need to, there might be an emergency. There might be something else. I might need a question. Like I need you to like. Leslie Youngblood (11:42) Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Natasha (12:01) And that for lot of developers using my example is hard because they're like, I'm head down, I'm coding, I'm working, like, leave me alone, right? But I'm like, no, for me to do my job, I need you to look up every 90 minutes and just check if I've tagged you on something. And for me, that is like non-negotiable. So if I have someone on my team who will not communicate the way I need it and the way I set it up when I hire them, I am not going to keep them on the team. Leslie Youngblood (12:13) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Natasha (12:26) And I think to know that, like to know what we need and know how to feel supported and know we need to do our job. And so if you meet somebody and you're interviewing them and they're kind of like take a date or reply to your email. No, like no, I need fast. I need it on it. I need someone who's organized. So it's kind of like, I don't know that makes sense, but it's like you're allowed to want what you want. You know, I run. I'm also involved in like a lot of groups of female agency owners and there's conversations all the time, like. Leslie Youngblood (12:32) Mm-hmm. ⁓ smart. yeah. Natasha (12:54) I hired this person and they're not doing a very good job, but I feel bad about firing them and they're not really doing it the way I want it, but I don't, you she has kids and all this drama. And I'm like, it's a job. You write the check, you're allowed to want what you want. And this might be kind of off topic, but it's like, I think women, we just like enable other people, but we forget that we write the checks. Leslie Youngblood (13:05) Yeah. Mmm. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Natasha (13:19) You know, like I write the check here. Like, it's not about being boss, because I'm like not a micromanager. I am so like, la-di-da, like, hey, I trust you. Tell me Tuesday. Talk to you Tuesday. Like, I'm not checking. Like, I'm, I trust you. If I trust you, I trust you. That's it, right? And, but it's having the courage to be like, I'm the leader. I'm the boss. We do this my way. Leslie Youngblood (13:22) Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Natasha (13:45) And obviously within that, there's so much openness to like, hey, if you got a better idea, great. Do know what I mean? But it's like, how in that presence, there is a hierarchy here. And I'm at the top of the hierarchy. So, you know? Leslie Youngblood (13:49) Right, columbra. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, you were. Right. Because you do keep your lights on. This is your business. I think too we get, whether you are in a corporate setting or as a business owner where it's even more important, but like you have to step up and realize that it comes down to you. And if that person's not going to do what you need them to do, you have a family too. That person has kids, well, you have kids. that person has to pay their bills, you have to pay your bills, you have to answer to your clients. And I think it's wonderful because I think women make incredible leaders and business owners because we have more thoughtfulness about people and think about that too. But I also think, you know, it can trip us up sometimes and allow for bad behavior that maybe we wouldn't accommodate otherwise. And if it's going to affect your business, you have to think about that. And I also really like what you said too about writing down Natasha (14:25) Okay. Hold on. 100%. Leslie Youngblood (14:53) what you need in those particular skills. Like, even before you get somebody that's not communicating, not doing what you need them to do, writing down like all the things that you need them to do. You might think I need that admin at virtual assistant, but you might see, no, I need a marketing like person. Right. And so that will prevent you from hiring that admin admin that doesn't know marketing that you still really need. You feel like why aren't they doing marketing? Why don't they know marketing? They're not doing it. Right. Well, it's Natasha (15:09) Yes. exactly. Exactly. Leslie Youngblood (15:20) back up because you didn't write that down. You weren't looking for somebody that needed that skill. And so like it's not anything personal, right? It's not personal. It's just kind of like taking those steps to ensure that you are setting yourself up for success and you're setting that team member up for success. And it's not fair to either of you. Natasha (15:28) No. 100%. Exactly. Leslie Youngblood (15:39) ⁓ to be doing that because they don't want to be one, you know, how we've all been there where we're like, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm messing up like, right. Like that's unfair to put them in that position. And it's unfair to put yourself in that position, too. It's just that it's just a mess. So just stop the mess for me. What happened? Right. And get clarity, like you said, at the very beginning. And I think that's where a lot of business owners struggle, right, is to just get that clarity. And then it. Natasha (15:48) Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (16:06) you are in the murky gray and it becomes, you feel like it's personal and it's not, and it's putting your business at risk too, when you're not doing that. What are the top three qualities Natasha, you look for when hiring a virtual contractor slash employee? Communication. Natasha (16:11) Yeah. Yeah. I agree. yeah, I look for number one, do they have proven experience doing what I'm hiring them to do? I want to see... Leslie Youngblood (16:29) Mm. Natasha (16:31) References I want reviews. I want portfolio I want I used to in the beginning be a lot more accommodating if someone didn't have experience But now that I'm sort of ten years in I've realized I should have hired really well from the beginning Because you waste a lot of time like I used to hire people who didn't really know What was going on and I'm like, cool You can come learn with me and we'll learn together and it worked to some degree, but it's way more stress So now I want to like plug and play someone who knows what they're doing Leslie Youngblood (16:45) Mm. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Natasha (17:00) So to me, again, like you have three kids, I have three kids, have, like, there's lots going on. It's like, I don't have time to clean up after somebody, right? So it's like, number one, do they have proven hard skills that they can do what I'm actually want them to do? So whether it's an email marketing person or a web developer or a virtual assistant or a bookkeeper or a nanny, like we can get support at home too, right? It doesn't have to be like virtually all the time, right? But it's like all these things, like do, is there evidence they know how to do this well? Leslie Youngblood (17:07) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 100%. Mmm. Natasha (17:29) So that's my number one. I don't want to just gamble. I'm like, no. I want to read reviews. I want to see your thing, all this stuff. And then I would say number two are the logistics, kind of like what we talked about. Are we going to work in the same time zone? how, like money, obviously rate and pay and how does that, like, what's that going to look like? ⁓ Do they want to be on salary and not in salary in the sense of their employee, but like, do they want to work on fixed income? Do they want to work product based? Do they want to like, however they want to do it? ⁓ How many hours does this person have? Because a lot of freelancers work for other clients, right? So like, when is my time? Leslie Youngblood (17:42) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Mm. Mm-hmm. Natasha (18:04) You know, like if you have other clients and I want you between 10 to 2, because my kids are at school, and I need you working 10 to 2 when I'm online while my kids are at school, is that going to work for you? Right? Because if you have other clients who need you, and I don't want to compete for that time, right? So to me, I want it my way. Leslie Youngblood (18:10) Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Natasha (18:22) ⁓ And then, know, number three, would just say like fit, like do we vibe? Do we get along? Like if you're working with this person, you have to like them. Like you have to enjoy being with them because it's too hard when you're working. And as an entrepreneur, we have that luxury to choose, right? We're not stuck in a corporate environment where we're like working with someone we hate. Like we can choose the people around us. So I'm like, okay, yeah, you got the skills. Yeah, the logistics are in place. Do I like you as a person? Leslie Youngblood (18:29) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. True. Yes. Mm-hmm. Natasha (18:52) Sincerely like you and it's not about like we have stuff in common like I don't really know a lot about the personal lives of my team like I really really don't In order they know a lot about my life, but it's like do we work together? Well, is there a good rapport? We trust each other like is there? Can we? Like yeah, is there a good energy like do you know what I mean? So Yeah, so those are the three there's the three things that I definitely look for Leslie Youngblood (18:59) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Yeah. How do you vet for outside of just the resumes or the portfolios and the references, how also do you vet for reliability and alignment in when it's a virtual person that could be on the other side of the world or definitely not in your vicinity? How do you vet that? Natasha (19:34) That's a great. ⁓ That's a great question. I teach this webinar a lot that's about how to hire like reliable, amazing virtual contractors. And the thing I tell people all the time is reliability is like a personality trait. So it's like, is this person reliable? Like I give this example and my mom, she knows, like my mom is one of those people who's always like, I'll be there by two and she'll be there by three thirty. You know, or you're like, you know, or it's like, mom, you know, can you please bring this to the thing? And she's like, I brought this instead or like, Leslie Youngblood (19:48) Mm. Natasha (20:05) Or like, can you please mail this letter for me today? And it's like, I forgot 10 days later. I'm like, okay. So my mom is amazing. I love my mom, mom, love you, but not reliable. Not a reliable person. She's just not. She's just not. She's kind of a scatterbrain. She's kind of in her thing. And that's okay. That's just how she is. She's more like an autistic soul, right? So I would never hire my mom, never. Leslie Youngblood (20:21) Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Natasha (20:33) I would never hire my mom to work with me. Like she's not reliable. So in that respect, you know, and other things, absolutely. She's an incredible parent, but it's like, it's a quality. So it's like when you're hiring someone, is this person, does this person, are they a reliable person? Period. You know, like do they reply to email properly? Do they like, they're like, Hey, I'm going to send you this, my resume by the end of the day, do they do that? Like, do they, if you send them like, I know when I hire people, I do a test project and they're Leslie Youngblood (20:38) Right. True. Mmm. huh. Yeah. Natasha (21:03) And I'm like, am I gonna have this back? And they're like, we'll have it to you by Monday at 3 p.m. Pacific time. And I'm like, that's not fair. They're not, because reliable people are gonna get it done. So I think it's kind of a little bit of a personality assessment, because we can't train someone to be reliable if they don't wanna be. so I think to assess that, is this person a reliable person? Leslie Youngblood (21:11) Check. Yeah, there's Hmm. ⁓ Yeah. True. Mm-hmm. Right. Natasha (21:33) I think is so key. Because we don't want to like... No, not at all. Leslie Youngblood (21:35) Right. And that doesn't mean they're a bad person. Like you said, right? I feel like sometimes we like, ⁓ we feel bad because that's a really nice, wonderful person, but they're not reliable and not a fit. then you get all like, right, like the gray area again, like, what am I doing? Right. And it's like, but it's not about what a good person they are. It's are they going to show up and do the things you need them to do that you told them that they needed to do? Because especially as you're building a business, if you can't rely on that person. Natasha (21:47) Yeah. Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (22:03) and you're at this level, how are you gonna get to that next 10 levels up with a person you can't even rely on right now? Impossible. Natasha (22:07) Exactly. No, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Like said, it's not that they're bad person. They're not. just, they're just not that. Cause there's a place for people in the world who are like not deadline driven and the world needs those people too. But it's like, you know, and it's just like, no, for to get it done, we need this. And Leslie Youngblood (22:14) Yeah. Right. Totally. Right. Natasha (22:28) So I think it's to just be brutally honest, like, is this person actually reliable? Are they? And we can all evolve and change, but at this moment in their consciousness of development, are they this? And maybe not. And it's okay to say that, like, no, they are not. So you're looking for people who show up, you know, like I have this assessment tool that I use that helps people vet. I can kind of vet them and be like, so their top Leslie Youngblood (22:32) of you. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Interesting. Natasha (22:52) I put the link in the document, I don't know if you wanna stick it in the show notes, but it's like, and it kind of vets their values. Like, is delivery, they're one of their top values, and if it's not, I'm like, eh. Like, pass. So, it's, but it's, again, but maybe in other environments, that's not really as important, you know? Leslie Youngblood (23:00) Yes. Okay, yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Right, different businesses are different, right? Like, and it doesn't mean that they're not a great professional or don't have a bright future ahead of them doing something else. It's just that fit for your business and for your team is not aligned there. And I love what you just said about the document and like the process, because I going to ask, do you have a go-to process or workflow when bringing that new contractor onto a project or onto the team? Tell us more about that, Latasha. Natasha (23:20) No. Totally. second. Yeah. Yeah. So if I'm hiring somebody for something like, let's imagine like right now I have a project that's sold and I need someone else because my guys are busy. So I need someone else. So the project's sold already. And this is kind of a backwards, there's two ways to do it. One, I have a contractor already on my team and they're just constantly receiving work. That's a little different. But if I was hiring clean, someone new, I've got the scope of work. I'm going to be like, okay, here, read the scope. Like, does it make sense? Any questions? Clarity? Anything missing? Clarify any questions. And then, okay, that's good. Come back, and I'm like, budget, timeline, like. does this work for you, yes or no? And then generally, it's been already estimated by someone on my team who's a professional web person. So it's usually like, yeah, this looks good. This looks fine. And then we talk about timelines. We talk about, when? What's your work schedule? What's going to be? What's going to look like? How are you going to communicate with me? How are we going to do this? What can I hold you accountable to? Because I'm like, look, I need updates every Tuesday, Thursday, or whatever, by 9 AM. And this is the plan. This is what we're doing. Leslie Youngblood (24:26) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Natasha (24:48) And then, okay, we're all on board, we're all okay, good. Okay, then I like do all the tech setup. I add them to Slack, I add them to our project management stuff, I make sure they have all the files, I make sure like, because so much also of like virtual contractor success is how do we set it up? Like, because this is one of my biggest pet peeves in a soapbox I could talk about all the time, is I'm like a professional project manager, but it's like so many, and I've done this before too, so I'm putting myself in this. Leslie Youngblood (25:02) Right. Natasha (25:16) So many leaders blame their team when they are a lousy project manager. Like they don't set up their team for success. So for example, when I onboard somebody, I have the responsibility to, if they're going to show up for me, that I show up for them. So I am organized. I've got the files, I've got the login, I've got all the information, all the logins have been tested, everything works. I have loom videos explaining anything that might not be clear. Leslie Youngblood (25:21) Mmm. Mm-hmm. I think. Mm-hmm. Natasha (25:45) I have estimate time written down. have whatever, I have everything ready. I have the estimate written for the reference. This is what you told me. Like it is there, they are set, they are clear. I have a lot of white space in my day, questions, clarification, excuse me. But it's like my response, if I expect them to show up doing an awesome job, I owe them. Leslie Youngblood (25:53) Yeah. Mm-hmm. True. Right. Natasha (26:15) being an awesome leader and being an awesome manager. Because what happens all the time is like, I see this all the time, is people hire a freelancer and they just expect them to mind read and know what to do. And I do that too. I get mad. I'm like, why don't you know? But I'm like, I didn't even tell you. How can you know? Like I do it all the time. Yeah, I like, I didn't tell you I wanted this done like this. I just told you to do it, right? And then we get mad at the person, but the person was not in any way set up to be successful. Leslie Youngblood (26:26) Right. Right. Right. Right. Whoops. My bad. Yeah. Yeah. Natasha (26:45) And that's the thing is smart, intelligent, hardworking people are not gonna tolerate working in chaos. They're just not. So they're gonna leave if you suck. You know? And people don't think about that. We just look at freelancers in many cases as like commodity. And we want them just to come in, do the thing, not really consider them as a human being in some ways, and do this, do this, do this, get mad if they don't, you're done, you're out. Leslie Youngblood (26:45) Right. ⁓ Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. True. Yeah. Natasha (27:14) It's like, no, but how are you? Like one of my points to loyalty is like, how do you show up for your people? Like, like how do you show up for them? Like, yeah, you want them to work for you, but you know what? They can leave. That's the thing with freelancers, right? It's like, they owe you nothing. They're not getting benefits or retirement savings or like medical plans or like, they're not getting like paid days off. They get nothing. So how we keep them is by Leslie Youngblood (27:21) Right, totally. Mm-hmm. Natasha (27:43) serving them and showing up for them and being the best place for them that they don't want to work anywhere else. We have to earn it. Like I tell people, you have to fucking earn that loyalty. It's not a given. There's no contract. Like how do keep people on your team? You got to create a place where they want to be and they feel supported and safe and happy and they want to come to work. And that's the job. Like Leslie Youngblood (27:49) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Natasha (28:12) I don't know, that's just, that's my soapbox. It's like, we have to show up for them as much as we want them to show up for us, you know? So, yeah. Leslie Youngblood (28:18) Yeah, yeah, I think you're spot on because it's so true. You think I'm the business you have to do. Why aren't you doing what I need you to do? But it's like, you have to show up for them to like they are not a commodity. There's a person and you have to you if you want to cultivate a long term working relationship and success on projects that takes as much as you as it does for them. And I think, you know, Natasha (28:41) Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (28:44) There's this mentality of like the businesses are, you know, steering the steering the ship and leading the show. But it's like, but that's not true. Like that freelancer and that contractor has just as much power as you do. It is a symbiotic relationship. You cannot take advantage of that. You have to be respectful and show up and prepare just as much for them as they do for you. Right. So I think that's just such something like really important to keep in mind. Now, you you've learned all these things, Natasha, probably through trial and error. Natasha (28:56) Absolutely. 100 % definitely 100 % 100%. ⁓ Yes. Leslie Youngblood (29:14) When was there ever a time you had a bad hire or a team breakdown and what did you learn? Natasha (29:20) Okay, recently, I this happen recently. my guys were really busy, my core crew was really busy, and I was like, I need another guy. And I hired this guy who on Upwork was really good reviews, like 90 plus percent success score. I met him, seems like a really great guy, said all the right things. Whatever, brought him in, train wreck. Leslie Youngblood (29:38) Mm-hmm. Natasha (29:41) Like, train wreck. Like, the guy, I put him on a couple projects, such a bad job. I had to have all the work done over again. I had to, like, do everything over. I had to pay someone else to do the same thing. You know, we had to, like, like, it was just this mess. Like, and I'm like, what happened? Like, you had good reviews. You had all this stuff. One of my developers was checking his work and he's like, I don't know what happened here. Like, I don't know. Leslie Youngblood (29:57) Yeah. Natasha (30:03) Like the guy botched it. Anyway, so I know exactly, I know right? And was like, my God. And I'm like, okay, so I talked to one of my tech leads and I was like, what happened? Like he came with all these things and he met my criteria and all this stuff. And I'm like, what happened? And he's like, well, what happens is, like a lot of developers or lot, in my profession, like in my world, they lie. Leslie Youngblood (30:18) Okay. Natasha (30:30) And they're like, they say they can do all these things, but they really can't. And then, so I had to really like, I took, I based my hiring purely on his reviews, like just on his like, okay, great reviews, great reviews. But I did not do the part I was talking about of like testing for hard, I didn't do enough hard testing. Like I just assumed like, okay, you're in this category, you've got all these reviews, you've got all this experience, like. Leslie Youngblood (30:53) No, no. No. Natasha (30:54) like great, know, it'll like Shopify, Shopify, Shopify, Shopify. And I'm like, okay, fantastic. But I did not run him through code testing, for example. So that was something I learned like 10 years in, right? It's like, no, we are upgrading. We are upgrading our onboarding, like our hiring. Leslie Youngblood (30:58) Thank you. Always learning. Natasha (31:14) So when I was going back to like, okay, proven hard skills, I was like, I wrapped myself in that. because before I hired a lot of people by referral and they kind of came in and I knew that they knew, but like when I hired this most recent guy, it was like totally on me that I... Leslie Youngblood (31:20) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Natasha (31:30) So, but now we huddled up, we like found online assessment tools, we like created this sort of process. And so it shouldn't happen again. You know, it shouldn't happen again, but sometimes people sneak through, right? You're like, Hey, like you do everything right. Yeah. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (31:35) Sure. Yeah. Right. Right. You can do right. Yeah, exactly. It's a tough, tough lesson. But, know, those tough lessons are the things where we learn the most from, which is sad, but true. Right. But I think also I would love to ask you to, Natasha, is when there when you have a virtual team, Natasha (31:56) Yeah. Yeah. Thank Leslie Youngblood (32:05) you don't have that in-person camaraderie. How do you build loyalty in team, I don't want to say like team bonding, right? But because you don't have the PDFs and like, because you were saying you don't know a lot about your team's personal life, which is totally fine, right? Because you don't, that's not what's like, you don't have to integrate 24 seven into everybody's lives, whether you're in person or virtual. But I think it's something that can be thought of as more difficult to do with a virtual team is to build loyalty. Natasha (32:25) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Leslie Youngblood (32:33) into build camaraderie when you are a virtual team. What have you learned that works really well for you and your team? Natasha (32:34) Okay. That's a great question. I've tried to teach my method, but I realize my method is so contingent on my business and my people. So for example, Leslie Youngblood (32:50) Mmm. Natasha (32:54) And also your leadership style. how people build camaraderie, I think, is so contingent on what you do, who you work with, and who you are. So for all, just to give my example. So for example, I work with web developers. Web developers are not really chatty people. They don't really want to be your buddy. You know, they're just like, they're kind, they're amazing. I'm like in awe of the people on my team, but they don't want to talk about their weekend. They don't like, that's not the culture. That's not the vibe. Like it's just not, we just work and we just kind of Leslie Youngblood (33:19) Yeah. Natasha (33:24) like. support each other and like emojis of like heart emojis, you know what mean? Like there's like, my god, that was amazing! Firework emoji, soccer ball emoji, my god, private DM, you killed it, so proud of you, my god, fucking amazing, like that's, but we don't do like meet on Friday to play online video games together. We don't like, we've never met in person. We have like a zero meeting system, so don't even see them. Like I, one guy on my team I haven't seen in like five years, and it's like even by meetings, like we have a zero Leslie Youngblood (33:29) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Natasha (33:55) zero meeting system and so there's no personal interaction on my team. But still... I've had people on the team for 10 years and we work together but it's by Slack and we talk and the designer knows the developer and the developer knows the QA and the QA knows the project managers and we support each other and it's this culture of kindness and warmth and respect and communication and openness and honesty and transparency and like, but I had this assistant one time and she still works with me and. Leslie Youngblood (34:18) Mm-hmm. Natasha (34:26) And she would be like, hey, Natasha, how's the weekend? How's your kids? And I was like, OK. And I was dying, right? And I said to her, like, look, I like you, but you don't have to do that with me. Like, you don't ask me. I don't want to talk about it. I'm not going to ask you. Let's work together. I'm not your buddy. Like, we're here to work. We're here to get the job done. We do it with respect. But I'm not your buddy. Leslie Youngblood (34:36) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm Natasha (34:51) You know what I So to me, that's my vibe on my team. So it's like, but when I tell other women that, they're like, that's disgusting. I could never work like that. Like, I remember I told one of my colleagues, I told, yeah, I told one of my colleagues, but also we work in programming. Like it's a different vibe. Like. Leslie Youngblood (34:54) You're right. Everybody's different. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Natasha (35:07) Like most, my team is guys. you know? Leslie Youngblood (35:09) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Natasha (35:10) But when I talk to a colleague of mine, and she runs a virtual team, she's like, they do all this fun stuff. They do like, you know, Monday, bring your coffee, talk about your weekend, what's going on with you. They do like, I don't know, online awards nights. They do like all this fun stuff, but her team is all women. They work in like branding. So it's a totally different culture. It's a totally different vibe, right? I would die in that environment. Leslie Youngblood (35:19) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or. Mm-hmm. Natasha (35:36) I remember somebody telling me, they're like, I could never work for you. I'd feel so invisible. I feel so unseen. And I'm like, that's okay. Don't worry for me. It's okay. So I think it's like building loyalty, building culture. It really depends. And obviously my personality type is going to attract a certain type of person where your personality type might attract someone who's way more different, like way different. So we build our businesses really to support who we are. Leslie Youngblood (35:36) you ⁓ Sure. Right. True. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Mmm, totally. Natasha (36:05) So I think it's like, but I have amazing loyalty and we really, like I have one person on my team who didn't even know I had cancer, you know? And it was like, was half out for like seven months, you know? And it was like, how you been? And he's like, you look different. I'm like, well, know, chemo will do that to you. But it's like, I covered myself. I had another PM there and he didn't even know. And, but some teams would be like, Leslie Youngblood (36:10) Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Natasha (36:33) my god, how did that happen? How did? So I think it's a very... How How did? Leslie Youngblood (36:34) Right. How do we not know? Oh my God. Yeah. I would like, I'd like, I'd be traumatized if I found out like that. My like boss CEO was gone for months fighting cancer and I didn't know. I'd be like, what? Get out of here. yeah. Natasha (36:47) Bye! Half in I was like on slack in but lying in bed on my phone like on slack But but but that's a great question But it's like it completely depends and the thing is entrepreneurs is there is no one way like this is one of my other pet peeves about running a business is like I've run my own business since I was 13 like I've never had a job I've always been self-employed or entrepreneur always and it's like there's so much training about this is what you do This is how you do it. This is how you build like a high team culture Leslie Youngblood (37:00) Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Natasha (37:17) I was like, okay, yeah, read the advice, but filter it through who you know you are. Right? Like I was doing some fractional project management work for a colleague of mine, and every Friday they did like team building Friday or something. And we played like online Jeopardy together and we played all these games. And I was like, oh my God. Leslie Youngblood (37:23) Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Natasha (37:38) Like, I can't. I just can't. So it was, they thought it was cute, but I was like, this is not what I want to be doing by Friday afternoon. Like, I'd rather be doing something way better than this. And so I think it's like, take all the advice of team building and loyalty and culture and just, it's okay. I guess my message of this podcast is like, it's okay to want what you want. Like, I could never do that. If I took that advice, I would be so miserable. Leslie Youngblood (37:46) you Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Natasha (38:04) And then if you took my advice, it'd be like, that is so sadistic. Like, I don't know what you're doing over there. But like, so don't take my advice. But it's like, lead how you want to lead. And that's, and you're going to find people who like you and want to be like that. And that's a super long answer. But I, it's like giving yourself permission to be like, no, I don't like that idea. I want to do it like this. And. Leslie Youngblood (38:15) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. Natasha (38:31) That's okay. You're allowed to do that. It all works. It all works. Leslie Youngblood (38:31) Yeah. Right. Right. I think that just really speaks to when you're a new entrepreneur or you're thinking about doing your own thing and you think, I need to do it this way or need to do it that way. This is how it's done. That's how it's done. And then you realize or hopefully the sooner the better. And it's hard. And I'd love to get your take on this is being an entrepreneur. business owner is truly the ultimate exercise in embracing who you are and like doubling down on yourself and trusting in yourself, believing in yourself, leaning into your uniqueness in the things that you believe and that you don't believe. And it's easy to say, but it can be difficult to put into practice because you have all of this external noise telling you, no, you need to do that or you need to do that. You should do this. This is blowing up right now. bond with your team by doing this. And I think that no, there is no right or wrong way for you except the right or wrong way for you. And I love that you're diving into that and sharing that right now. Yeah. Natasha (39:33) 100%. 100%. 100%. 100%. I was on this call yesterday with another agency community and they were talking about like, I don't want to do marketing like this. And I was like, well, why do you have to do marketing like this? Do it like that. Like, there's no one way to do anything. There's a million ways to do everything. And it's like, okay, so if you don't like Facebook ads, don't do Facebook ads. If you don't like, you know. Leslie Youngblood (39:46) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right, right. Unless they work really well, then maybe. Right. ⁓ Yes. Natasha (39:59) Unless it works. Yeah, exactly. if it's not working and you don't like it, but you think you should, don't. if you're, know, if you're, like, I love to network and I love to chit chat and meet people, but it's like... If you're not a networking person, don't. I would never go to a networking coffee meeting. I would never go. I'm like, out of my house, forget it. It's not gonna happen, right? But some people, that's their MO, that's their thing. They do meetings and they meet people and it's like, it all works. It all works. so I think it's, yeah, it's like having the courage to be, this is, and I think that comes with maturity, right? I think, I know for me, I was for sure the leaf in the wind. This is, I'm gonna try all these Leslie Youngblood (40:14) Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. Natasha (40:42) and shiny object syndrome and all these things. And it's like, I think once you try stuff and you realize this is not me, to have the courage to be okay with that and own that, like this is not me. This is not my deal. I'm not, can't do it like this. And to be okay like, no, I don't have to. Like I don't, I don't have to. Like people build businesses in every conceivable way. Like there's no rule. There's no, this is how you do it. No. Leslie Youngblood (40:50) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, right. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Natasha (41:11) No. You see that copy on a landing page, it's like, okay, not necessarily. Like, the number one secret to building out your whatever. it's like, well, maybe. Maybe not. Like, I'm just like... Leslie Youngblood (41:17) Right. Right. Right. Or this is how you scale to over X monthly revenue, right, by doing A, B, and C. And it's like, I don't like that. Or that doesn't feel right for me. I don't like that. And it doesn't mean that you're not going to get to that level of where you're wanting to go. It's just you need to trust your vision and what, again, like feels aligned. It makes you feel the most powerful and confident and excited. Natasha (41:35) No, I'm not. Yeah. Yeah. I Leslie Youngblood (41:45) Right? Because why are you, it's so hard at the end of the day, why are you going to do it and then not do it the way that you want to do it? ⁓ it's like so contradictory. Natasha (41:51) Exactly, I know. I totally I know and I think is exactly what you said. It's like doubling down and trusting yourself. Like that's exactly it. It's like if something feels off, trust that. Like. Leslie Youngblood (41:58) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Natasha (42:04) I was listening to this podcast this morning and it was like, okay, how do you identify a bad fit client? And the number one answer is like, you just have this gut feeling. Like this is not the right thing. Like this is not the right person. This is not the right situation. it's like, trusting that, like that's hard when you're an entrepreneur, like to like get out of your head, listen to your body and be like, this is a no. And then, I know this is kind of off the topic of contractors, but it's like, Leslie Youngblood (42:09) Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Natasha (42:33) Yeah, like the doubling down, knowing who you are, knowing what you want, knowing how you want it done. And we're gonna, it's gonna evolve, right? Like who we are five years ago is not who we are now. And it's gonna evolve and trusting that it's okay to evolve, but like trusting your instincts, like trust what you want and try to like tune out the noise. Leslie Youngblood (42:47) Yeah. Mm hmm. Did you? Yeah, do you think it's because we're taught not to trust those instincts or that we, you know, we're so bombarded by noise and external things that and especially as women to write or believe women or like we're taught not to trust ourselves and our feelings and our experiences. Right. And so then it can be difficult to really truly embody yourself and what you are. Natasha (43:00) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (43:15) feeling to be true because you think, I'm just probably, oh, this client doesn't feel right. Oh, I'm probably just nervous. Or I just am probably, I'm being, I don't know, I'm being silly because I said a word wrong or whatever. Do you know what I mean? Like we kind of like get heady about it. And it's like, no, you shouldn't be trusting your gut for some, for any particular reason. You know, that's interesting. Yeah. Natasha (43:28) Yeah, I agree with you. Yeah. Yeah, I think we're totally taught that. Like I think that's something we learn. And I think it's like that's a lot of like sales copy is to tell us that like, you know, struggling as an entrepreneur, this is why and then like, okay, yeah, and it's kind of like, I know, for me, I probably I don't know, spent like 100 grand on like training that I would never use ever. Like, for sure 100 grand of training sitting in my inbox, I'm never going to use it like at least $100,000 in training, because it Leslie Youngblood (43:44) Yeah. Right. I have the secret. Yeah. Yeah. Natasha (44:06) training that I bought thinking yes this is the thing and then you get into it and you're like organic Facebook are you kidding me I would never do that I would never do that yeah never I would never do that Leslie Youngblood (44:08) Yes. Yeah, right. Or yeah, like mass cold emails for like this. You're like, well, and you think like, they're going to tell me they're going to give me the secret. And I feel, though, to like to be fair, like I feel like any time you invest money in yourself to learn something, especially as a business owner, it's not for naught. Right. And it's a write up to write so you can write that up. Wink, wink. But also, it's like the secret is not external. Natasha (44:25) Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (44:39) that's not outside of you, right? It's like, that's the grand trick. That's the grand joke. It's like, you need to do what you feel like that path is like pulling you down. And it's so when you're pulled on something different, they're telling you to do like this way and it doesn't resonate because you're like, ⁓ don't like that's great for you. I wish that worked. I wish I could do that and be. Natasha (44:43) Yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can. Leslie Youngblood (45:00) you know, like to the moon with that same process you did. But that feels so wrong to me I don't know why. And there's and that's not that means that you suck or you're not smart enough or you're not going to be successful. It just means that you're different. And so I love that you that you said that because I feel like it's such a common trap, especially with all the great coaches, great programs out there. But it doesn't it's not going to be the be all end all to you getting on your little rocket ship to the moon. It comes down to you driving that rocket ship where you want it to go. Natasha (45:02) Yeah. Yeah. forward. Yeah. No. Absolutely. 100%. 100%. And we do have that instinct, like you're saying. It's like, I know for me, was for years, my God, like most of my career, like every book, every podcast, every strategy, every course, every everything, because I was like so motivated. I'm like, yes, I wanna like do this thing. And most of it didn't resonate with me and my strengths and my personality and my vision and my goals. And yeah, it's so easy to blame yourself and be like, I suck. Like I can't do it like these thousands of testimonials who did and who knows how many are true or not, but it doesn't matter. Leslie Youngblood (45:45) Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Natasha (46:03) But it's like I can't and I failed and I'm a failure because I couldn't and I can't and it's so easy to get into that trap like I think like the whole statistics of entrepreneurs like however many in five years and however many and like whatever the statistics are about like failure is like Leslie Youngblood (46:03) Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Natasha (46:23) It's your mind. I really, really think it's not a matter of running out of money. It's not a matter of your mechanics. We can all learn mechanics. We can all figure the mechanics out. It's like your head. It's like, okay, it's so much confusion, so much doubt, so much fear. And it's like, okay, like. Leslie Youngblood (46:24) Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Natasha (46:43) I was on this interview, I was this interview on this other thing yesterday for this other webinar and it was like, and they were like, what's your best tip to an entrepreneur? And I'm like, put your head down. Just stay in your lane, do your thing. Don't look around, don't look up, don't look around, don't look at your competitors, just put your head down. Competitor analysis, not necessary. Like trust yourself, trust your instincts, trust what you're creating. Forget it. Like forget it. Like it's just gonna confuse you and it's just gonna stress you out. Leslie Youngblood (46:52) Mm. Hmm. ⁓ Mmm. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Natasha (47:12) Do your thing, trust your instincts, follow that guidance, like trust that you're led. I mean, I this might be getting woo-woo now, but it's like, trust that you're being led. Yeah, I'm like so woo-woo-woo, I'm like the queen of the woo-woo people, but it's like, that you're being led, and that that is right, and that is enough. But that is hard as hell. Leslie Youngblood (47:18) Yeah. Yeah. I love to get woo woo. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Natasha (47:34) Like in a world where like everything is telling you best practice, best practice, best practice. Like here's the secret, 10 keys to like million dollars in five days. Like, okay, not that you don't do it, but check yourself. Like check yourself. If it feels off, it's off. That's it. Like maybe in a year you circle back to it and it's fine, but maybe right now, no, right? So I don't know. It's just, yeah, if I could say one thing to solo like entrepreneurs, like female entrepreneurs, it's like, Leslie Youngblood (47:34) It's so hard. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Natasha (48:05) Don't get caught up in what you think you should do. It's like having the courage to show up and do it your way. It's hard, because I think as women, we're taught to statistically, stereotypically to be the people pleasers, to take care of everybody, to make sure everybody else is OK. As a mom, the kitchen's not clean. We're not going to bed. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (48:10) Mmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right? No. Natasha (48:33) all these things Leslie Youngblood (48:33) Yeah. Natasha (48:34) and who has lunches and who needs a ride to school today? And you're like, who has a vibe? a meeting, he needs this. And you drop it all. And we're just taught from love, we do it, right? But it's like, we just have been taught as a culture, like it's our job to like make sure everybody else is okay and we don't really matter. And it's like, but when you think that you get lost and it's like, no, it's like what you think matters, what you want matters, what you need matters, what you trust, what you believe matters and... Leslie Youngblood (48:39) Mm-hmm. Right. True. ahead. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Natasha (49:02) Having that conviction is hard, especially on those days where business is not going well. And you're like, this sucks. Like, I hate this. Like, I want to go work at Starbucks. Like, this is a big mistake. And I think as well, like, a lot of people don't say that. Like, I know a lot of people, like, when they meet me, they're like, okay, you're very, like, no bullshit. And I'm like, yeah, like, I'll say it the way it is. Because it's like... Leslie Youngblood (49:08) Mm-hmm. Yeah. This is a huge mistake. What was I thinking? Yeah. Natasha (49:27) Most people think, oh yeah, it's so this, it's so like you're an entrepreneur and you can like do all these things. And it's like most days you're like, what am I doing with my life? Like, this is hard. And so it's like, I shouldn't say most days, but there are some days where you're like, this really sucks. I really am not happy. Like I'm so miserable. But then you come through it and you know, it's a season, it's a day, it's a week, it's a client, it's a bad client, it's a whatever. And then you're back and you're like, okay. Leslie Youngblood (49:35) Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Natasha (49:58) But it's to like, not to like learn how to ride that out, to learn how to have confidence, to learn how to like be strong. And anyway, so many ideas. Sorry, I'm kind of all over the place, but I'll get to that. Leslie Youngblood (50:04) Yeah, sure. Yeah, no, it all really comes down. mean, I love that, too. And that's why we are here to talk serious lady business is the things that nobody talks about, because whether it's hiring or it's like the emotional cadence behind it, it's like that is what it's about. And people don't talk about those things. And I think that's really important to know and to understand for every female professional out there, whether you are, you know, have a nine to five, because you can take all of these things and implement it. Natasha (50:35) Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (50:36) within there, right? Whether you're hiring or you're collaborating or you're a leader, right? All these things that we're touching on today or whether you are a business owner, whether you're just starting or you've been in one for 10 years or more, there's always things to learn. And it's, you know, it's so easy to say all these things and it's difficult in practice. And so we don't say it to just like, ⁓ yeah, congratulations. Now we have the secret. We told you all this. Like, no, it's like a constant journey adventure that we go through. Natasha (50:54) Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (51:03) And so, know, I hope talking about it and hearing others talk about it just unlocks that for others out there like, there's nothing wrong with me. This I don't know how to hire this person. I hired wrong or and I doubting myself or I did this course that didn't work and I feel like a failure. And it's like, no, you're fine. It's OK. We all did it. We all did those things. Natasha (51:15) ⁓ no. I exactly it's like someone posted on LinkedIn yesterday like something about being an entrepreneur is just like just surviving it. It's not a game of yeah like it's not always a game of we're thriving you know it's like some days we're surviving and that is all that is all and that's okay like the tough talk is yeah it is Leslie Youngblood (51:32) Yeah, this is survival. Yeah. No. Yeah, and that's okay. Yeah. Natasha (51:47) not always like some blonde somewhere like with her latte. It's like, no, like no, this is hard and this is scary and this is like risky and this is very, very uncomfortable. That's the gig, right? But if you trust, again, coming back to the point of like, if you trust that instinct, you trust that you're led, if you trust that like you're being guided and you have, there's a call or there's a purpose or there's a something or your why, you you know your why you're doing it. Leslie Youngblood (51:50) Mm-hmm. Yeah. No. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Natasha (52:17) It's like, if that voice is like, no, it's okay, just take a break, but come back. Okay, listen. Because ultimately that voice is smarter than us, and a lot smarter than us. And so it's like having that faith, not religious, but just faith, in that higher whatever you want to call it, and that we are led. And so if this feels like a no, if organic Facebook feels like a no to you and makes you want to die, it's okay. Maybe you'll be okay. Leslie Youngblood (52:21) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that hire feels like a no to you. That's okay. Natasha (52:49) No, exactly. It's totally okay. Yeah, if it feels off, no, like it's all right. So yeah, but that's, I know it's a very non-mechanical talk, but like, like I said, I put my hands in front my entire career. Leslie Youngblood (52:55) Yeah. But isn't that so wonderful though? I love that though, because I think so many of our conversations that we feel like are gonna be mechanical come to, it's just not that, right? Like there's something core deep inside though, or like it's more existential than mechanical, right? And I think that's really like a truth of entrepreneurship, but you can take those mechanical pieces and listen to like. Natasha (53:15) Yeah, it is. Leslie Youngblood (53:23) You know, I was laughing when you were saying what I was like, I read all the books. did this. literally just had my husband go to the library for like four more books. He's like, all these like you've been reading these books for years and we're not millionaires yet. I'm like, I'm telling you one day this next book is really going to do it. Right. But I'm not going to not read those because I like to I'm curious about I'm just curious in general. I just need something to like read and learn from. Right. Because I it's not that I think is one of them going to read one like, ha ha. I've got it. I mean, maybe that would be nice. Like a lottery ticket. Right. Natasha (53:30) you Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, but it's all ideas, right? Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (53:52) But that's okay to educate yourself and be curious and do all those things. But at the end of the day, right, it's you as that person like you said, like it's very existential. But the mechanical pieces are very important to keep in mind to help you on your journey. It's like all the little tools in your little pouch, you know, your little sack, your little sack on the adventure. Natasha (54:12) Oh, it all adds up. Yeah. And we learned this exercise that to me was very hard but very helpful. And I'll just say this because I think we're at end of the call. it was like, how, when something hard happens, what did you learn from that? And it's so trick, it's so hard to do. Like this morning, I was doing my journal time and I was thinking it was something that to me was incredibly hard. And I was like, OK, how is this good? How is this like? Leslie Youngblood (54:26) Mm. Hmm. Natasha (54:40) what you're saying of like if you're Leslie Youngblood (54:41) Yeah. Natasha (54:42) an entrepreneur and you're struggling and you're like and we all do everyone and anyone who says they don't they're lying they're lying to you like they are lying no one is like hey i woke up and made a million dollars with bitcoin today like not true not true and any woman who says they're doing it alone is also lying they have nannies they have daycare they have a mother-in-law lying to you lying they're lying so any women out there listening to this who thinks i can't do it like i'm not like her because she built with a baby i'm like Leslie Youngblood (54:45) Liars. Big, big liars. Yes. Right. 100%. Yeah. Partner and friends. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Natasha (55:10) No, not true. Unrelated. What if it's like, but yeah, it's like, what did we learn? Like how, like if I spent a hundred grand on training, I'm not using. It's like, okay, but did I really not use it? Or did me now paying a hundred thousand dollars, does that make me feel stronger? Cause I'm like, fuck, I just, you know, I just spent that much money. Like, damn it, I spent a hundred grand on training. Like, hey, I did that. Like maybe I never even opened the training, but it's like, that's a big lift, right? Or whatever. I'm not saying that's the case, but like, Leslie Youngblood (55:11) Yeah, you can do it. You can figure it out. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. Bye. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. you Natasha (55:40) How can we look at this? Like, can we look at this differently and reframe it? And ⁓ it's a mental game. It's a mental game. Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (55:41) Yeah, reframe. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it is. It really is. It is. And, Natasha, before we wrap up today, it's also great, and I love to end on that. Tell everybody where they can find you and stay in touch with you and connect with you in on purpose projects. Find you guys, all that good stuff. Natasha (56:00) Absolutely. I mean, I'd say my LinkedIn is the best one. I'm there all the time. So connect on LinkedIn, say that you met me through the show. And I would be more than happy to chat with any business owners and like, who's like, they're struggling. Like I am the woman to talk to because I've, we've all been there and we've, we can get through it. We can all do it together. So. Leslie Youngblood (56:15) Yes. That's right. That's right. Further together, baby. I love that. And thank you so much for joining us, Natasha. It was a fantastic conversation about hiring and all the wonderful joys and trials and tribulations of entrepreneurship. We appreciate it and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you. Thank you. Natasha (56:27) I'm going to touch your... Yeah, my class year. Thank you, thanks for having me, my pleasure.