Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: S1E64 An Interview with David Homan and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker

Transcript

Networking Unleashed: S1E64 An Interview with David Homan and Michael A Forman, Public Speaker · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

• 0:16
  Welcome back to Networking Unleashed, Building
• 0:19
  Profitable Connections. I'm your host, Michael
• 0:22
  Foreman, speaker, strategist, and believer that
• 0:29
  meaningful relationships drive real results.
• 0:32
  Today's conversation is going to challenge you
• 0:35
  to think about connection, because while most
• 0:40
  people play it safe when it comes to networking,
• 0:43
  real growth, real community, starts with a little
• 0:47
  risk. Didn't read that, but that's right. My
• 0:50
  guest today is someone who understands that connection,
• 0:53
  doesn't thrive in comfort zones. We're diving
• 0:57
  into why risk is essential. I'm sorry. We're
• 1:01
  diving into why risk is an essential ingredient
• 1:04
  in community building. I don't know what's going
• 1:08
  on with my talking today and how too often overlooked
• 1:12
  strengths. Vulnerability and curiosity can transform
• 1:16
  not only how we network, but how we lead, collaborate,
• 1:21
  and grow. If you ever hesitated to reach out,
• 1:27
  share your story, or start that bold conversation,
• 1:31
  this episode is going to speak directly to you.
• 1:34
  So let's get into it. I'd like to introduce today
• 1:37
  David Holman. He's got quite a background, and
• 1:42
  I swear I'll just butcher it if I try it, because
• 1:45
  today my tongue is absolutely in knots. But David,
• 1:49
  hello, welcome to the podcast, and give us a
• 1:52
  little bit about your background. Sure, and thank
• 1:54
  you, Michael, for having me. I love your work,
• 1:56
  and I'm so pleased to be able to share whatever
• 1:59
  insights I might have from a way that I have
• 2:01
  from my world, which I call orchestrated connecting.
• 2:05
  So I'll give you a brief background. So I am
• 2:07
  an anomaly in the business world because I am
• 2:09
  a working classical composer. The last time somebody
• 2:13
  held a job and actually had success in music
• 2:15
  was Aaron Copland. Everyone else teaches. But
• 2:18
  I realized as I was running a large scale nonprofit
• 2:21
  that my entire world was about finding the resonance
• 2:25
  with people and the skill sets that come from
• 2:29
  the performing arts that come from understanding
• 2:32
  how to read people, how to have. conversations,
• 2:35
  how you were present. All of that self -work
• 2:38
  helped me understand how I eventually became
• 2:41
  a nonprofit CEO in my mid -20s and then transitioned
• 2:45
  from that into running a film company for a large
• 2:49
  -scale family office. But at every point, there
• 2:52
  was one thing that brought me forward in my career,
• 2:54
  and that was my purposeful community. Some people
• 2:58
  would describe it as a network, but for me, the
• 3:00
  network is around you. to do a round of what
• 3:04
  you're doing. The community is there to lift
• 3:05
  you up. And I can look at every single point
• 3:09
  in my life and in my career where I met the right
• 3:13
  donor, got the right client, got into the right
• 3:17
  room, all based on the power of the introduction.
• 3:22
  That's incredible. I think you can do that pinpointing
• 3:26
  as you eloquently put it. because you're actually
• 3:29
  looking for it. Most people network today, they
• 3:34
  don't even know they're networking. They're finding
• 3:36
  those connections, those networking between two
• 3:40
  people, and they don't understand that it's truly
• 3:42
  networking that's getting them even further.
• 3:46
  But I'll leave that for now. Let me just go into
• 3:50
  a few of the questions that I have for you, and
• 3:52
  I hope they are in line with what you wanted
• 3:54
  to talk about. You talk about risk. as a key
• 3:58
  ingredient in building community. Can you unpack
• 4:02
  that? And what kind of risk are we really talking
• 4:06
  about when we're trying to connect? So I love
• 4:11
  starting with this question because what we don't
• 4:13
  think about when we don't even think, as you
• 4:15
  just said, whether we're networking or not, we
• 4:19
  don't think about the one thing we cannot buy,
• 4:21
  which is our reputation. People have tried. And
• 4:27
  then they have basically been dethroned, so to
• 4:31
  speak. But everyone who has a positive reputation
• 4:34
  has it based on positive action. So in communities
• 4:39
  and networks, whoever you look at your personal
• 4:41
  network, your business network, your alumni network,
• 4:44
  any variation from your PTA, there's a thousand
• 4:47
  worlds in which your community can be purposeful,
• 4:50
  Michael. In everyone, we rarely, if ever. talk
• 4:55
  about the consequences of taking bad actions
• 4:57
  or taking no action. But if you were to view
• 5:01
  everything as relationships with the summation
• 5:03
  of how you've spent your time and what you've
• 5:06
  spent your money towards and into, that if somebody
• 5:10
  is wasting your time, shouldn't their reputation
• 5:13
  not be as strong as somebody who is elevating
• 5:17
  or adding to it? And so in the network that I
• 5:21
  run, in the way that I live my life, If you introduce
• 5:23
  me to people who are not positive people that
• 5:26
  I can help or they can help people that I know,
• 5:28
  at some point, sometimes me, then you are wasting
• 5:31
  my time. And if I am clear on the type of people
• 5:35
  I want to meet, such as yourself, and the way
• 5:38
  that I want to support those people in my network,
• 5:40
  why should it not be that standard is a double
• 5:43
  standard that you should be rewarded and have
• 5:47
  your reputation increase for having a positive
• 5:50
  benefit? And if the opposite is true, shouldn't
• 5:55
  there be a risk associated with that? Of course
• 6:00
  there should be. And I go into networking with
• 6:04
  what's called a servant's heart. I always look
• 6:07
  to give rather than receive. And as many people
• 6:12
  would say, and Zig Ziglar, one of them, when
• 6:14
  you do that, you're going in with a better. alternative
• 6:19
  of living. You go with giving instead of receiving
• 6:22
  so that if you constantly give, if I put two
• 6:26
  people together, then one or both of those people
• 6:30
  should say, Michael did this for me. So let me
• 6:33
  try to introduce him to somebody else. And you
• 6:37
  do that enough and it will go around. What goes
• 6:40
  around does come around. So it's very important
• 6:42
  what you say. Thank you. a moment in your own
• 6:48
  journey where taking a networking risk, starting
• 6:52
  a conversation, asking for help, showing up,
• 6:55
  changed everything? I have a few of these, but
• 7:00
  I want to demonstrate with this answer what happened
• 7:03
  because I built enough of a community to actually
• 7:07
  support me through a very dark and hard time.
• 7:10
  So there was this time, we all remember it, it
• 7:14
  was called COVID. It technically still exists,
• 7:17
  we just pretend it doesn't. And I was living
• 7:20
  with my now ex -in -laws out of New York City.
• 7:24
  My kids were young, and through no fault of my
• 7:27
  own, I had actually just gotten an incredible
• 7:30
  new opportunity with my current employer. Circumstances
• 7:34
  changed, and I had to figure everything else
• 7:37
  out about my life in the span of six months.
• 7:41
  So I went to my community. And I said, I'm not
• 7:47
  sure what I can do. I can't go back and run an
• 7:49
  arts organization. There's no performing arts.
• 7:51
  It's COVID. I can't move back to New York. My
• 7:55
  younger kid has always had breathing issues.
• 7:57
  I don't know what will happen if he gets this
• 8:00
  disease. And would anyone that knows, trusts,
• 8:05
  or loves me show up and for 20 minutes tell me
• 8:08
  what you think I can do? 142 people booked the
• 8:13
  call. And I might think what I've built now in
• 8:17
  my world of startup and book and global event
• 8:22
  series and purposeful community of 2000, I was
• 8:25
  good at it. I wasn't then. I stumbled into it.
• 8:28
  I needed to hone it. And I was not so dense that
• 8:32
  after maybe like the hundredth time that somebody
• 8:34
  told me what they thought I did well, that they
• 8:36
  thought I was already doing, I got it that I've
• 8:38
  been doing. what I was eventually supposed to
• 8:40
  do, but I had been completely afraid of it until
• 8:45
  people took their time to tell me why they valued
• 8:49
  me. And that gave me enough fuel for the last
• 8:53
  five years now to build a much more impactful
• 8:56
  business and community from it. So that fuel
• 9:01
  that you're speaking of is maybe confidence.
• 9:05
  confidence in yourself so that you now see what
• 9:10
  everybody else generally sees or saw in you.
• 9:14
  And you are now, you've built that confidence
• 9:17
  to such a point where you're comfortable doing
• 9:20
  what you're doing today. And that's creating
• 9:23
  your community and actually not only creating
• 9:27
  it because you've created it, but you're watching
• 9:30
  it expand, and you're enjoying it. And that all
• 9:34
  started from the confidence level. That's all.
• 9:38
  Absolutely. Why do you believe vulnerability
• 9:41
  is such a core strength in today's networking
• 9:45
  culture? And how can leaders model it authentically?
• 9:51
  So you know how anyone who's a parent will tell
• 9:55
  you when they say to their kids, do what I say
• 9:57
  you're supposed to do? Everyone laughs as you're
• 10:00
  laughing now because no kid ever listens when
• 10:03
  you say you're supposed to do something. How
• 10:05
  are you supposed to model empathy in leadership?
• 10:10
  Curiosity. How are you supposed to get past the
• 10:13
  water cooler conversation without embracing vulnerability
• 10:17
  as a key part of our lives? This is the question
• 10:21
  I ask myself repeatedly. And even though I might
• 10:24
  have needed the confidence to build my business.
• 10:26
  bigger than it was at the time, I didn't need
• 10:30
  any confidence to be vulnerable and to see what
• 10:33
  came of it because I saw its strategic effect
• 10:36
  and the personal growth I experienced from it.
• 10:40
  When you meet somebody at whatever level they
• 10:42
  are and you're willing to share something, not
• 10:45
  verbal diarrhea or every single problem you have,
• 10:48
  but you're willing to share something that you
• 10:50
  think instinctually is relevant and they open
• 10:52
  up. You build relationship trust. And once you
• 10:56
  have trust, you have the exact opposite of that
• 10:59
  parent trying to tell the kid, do what I say.
• 11:03
  Because when I parent my kids and they trust
• 11:06
  me on certain things, they just do it. But they
• 11:09
  know that I've explained to them why we do it.
• 11:12
  I will explain more after. And that it needs
• 11:14
  to be done so we can collectively achieve something.
• 11:18
  That for me, whether it's in a parent situation
• 11:20
  or a management or... business growth situation
• 11:24
  is the key. And it's embracing that vulnerability
• 11:27
  that gets us closer to the people that we want
• 11:30
  to stay relational with, even when transaction
• 11:34
  occurs. That is so true. You touched on so many
• 11:39
  points that is so crucial, besides to living,
• 11:44
  besides networking, it's to everyday life. But
• 11:47
  what you... really said was that trust me, that
• 11:52
  trust factor is so crucial that you can't do
• 11:57
  anything else unless you have that trust factor.
• 12:01
  And it's so true, especially with networking.
• 12:04
  That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm
• 12:06
  all about. But it's so crucial, I think, in every
• 12:10
  business, every walk of life. Okay. Curiosity
• 12:15
  is often overlooked in networking. You just spoke
• 12:18
  about the curiosity. How does it deepen connection
• 12:22
  and create stronger communities? Think about
• 12:28
  the last time you went to an event, maybe before
• 12:31
  you spoke, because I have a feeling from the
• 12:34
  incredible keynotes that you give that once you
• 12:36
  speak, people don't make this mistake. But think
• 12:39
  about somebody who's sitting there with you,
• 12:40
  maybe two hours before you go on. And they start
• 12:43
  talking about themselves. And they talk and they
• 12:46
  talk. And you, being a naturally curious super
• 12:49
  connector, ask them questions. And then they
• 12:53
  say goodbye, having handed you their card. And
• 12:56
  two hours later, they see you on the stage. And
• 12:59
  they go, that's the guy I talked to. And you
• 13:02
  think later, no, that's the guy you talked at.
• 13:07
  That is the fallacy in networking people don't
• 13:10
  get. My estimate, right, not a social science
• 13:12
  graph yet, is that only 30 % of people are actually
• 13:16
  curious enough to build depth in a conversation.
• 13:19
  But the ones who do, right, like, why would I
• 13:23
  want to go into even speaking on a podcast with
• 13:26
  you, which I'm very grateful for, without having
• 13:29
  read what you do and looked you in the eye and
• 13:31
  talked to you and seen that we are kindred spirits
• 13:35
  of how this world works. for that right you come
• 13:37
  with 10 questions which means you have curiosity
• 13:40
  not just the necessity of being a host but you
• 13:44
  have insight with that which means that our rapport
• 13:47
  is going to be different and what people listen
• 13:49
  to from it is going to be different than something
• 13:52
  that would otherwise be drier but now which is
• 13:55
  a lot of conversations when we go through the
• 13:57
  motions without actually that that emphasis on
• 14:01
  the deep listening and curiosity as essential
• 14:05
  To again, the same thing, building the trust.
• 14:07
  You combine the two, vulnerability and curiosity,
• 14:10
  and you have something worth remembering or being,
• 14:13
  you're worth remembering from exhibiting those
• 14:16
  traits. That's so true. And really, when I say
• 14:21
  when you're first meeting somebody, you let them
• 14:24
  talk about themselves. But it's not to such a
• 14:28
  point where they talk, talk, then you say goodbye.
• 14:32
  Because They don't even know your name or what
• 14:35
  you do because all they did was talk, talk. And
• 14:39
  that's why I will interject, interjecting with
• 14:42
  you right now, several parts of my own vulnerability
• 14:45
  to see if they bite. It's true. And if they bite,
• 14:50
  then you have a conversation. If not, it's a
• 14:54
  one -way mirror and you were on the wrong side
• 14:56
  of it. Absolutely. Absolutely. And really, every
• 15:00
  time that... that you do this if they bite. It's
• 15:04
  one little thing in the back of your mind saying,
• 15:06
  okay, they bit on that so I can talk about this
• 15:09
  or I can take the conversation in this direction.
• 15:13
  But that's all communication going back and forth.
• 15:17
  Without it, what you said at the beginning was
• 15:20
  that's who you spoke at, not to. And it's so
• 15:25
  true. Okay, to add one more thing. Absolutely.
• 15:28
  Go right ahead. So I want to point this out in
• 15:30
  terms of, yes, we're walking through the basic
• 15:33
  principles which are in my book and the way I
• 15:35
  talk about connecting. I know a lot of it's akin
• 15:37
  to the way you talk about this and speak as well.
• 15:40
  The thing people fail to realize is, I believe
• 15:44
  we have maybe five to six times in our life to
• 15:47
  be in the right place at the right time to meet
• 15:50
  the right person. So if you're not ready for
• 15:54
  that moment. You have lost more than you could
• 15:57
  ever fathom because that guy who just talks at
• 16:02
  you and then hears the keynote speaker, he didn't
• 16:07
  just get to know you. You wrote him off by the
• 16:11
  time your conversation was done because you saw
• 16:13
  his intentions and what was behind the curtain.
• 16:16
  You don't need to talk to him anymore, no matter
• 16:19
  who he is, because he's a taker. Absolutely.
• 16:24
  And as well as I do, that you really, you have
• 16:27
  to be a giver. Not 100%, not 100%, but like I
• 16:33
  said before, you need to give in order to receive.
• 16:37
  But if you are, again, going back to that person
• 16:40
  that's just speaking at people, I really, it's
• 16:44
  very hard for me to say this, being the networker
• 16:46
  that I am, I don't have time for them. I don't
• 16:49
  have time for people like that. And I just move
• 16:52
  on. But it's moving on from that person that
• 16:57
  makes it more difficult for me because they never
• 17:01
  shut up. But that's beside the point. Okay. How
• 17:05
  can someone move past the fear of being too much
• 17:08
  or not enough when trying to show up vulnerability
• 17:13
  in their professional relationships? It's why
• 17:17
  it's a combination. If you're just vulnerable
• 17:21
  with somebody and not knowing if it resonates,
• 17:23
  you're still talking at them. You're just sharing
• 17:25
  more than you probably should have. If you're
• 17:28
  so curious that you just pepper them with questions,
• 17:31
  you're not actually hearing them. You're just
• 17:34
  peppering them with questions. It's an intricate
• 17:38
  balance. This is an art. It's a skill. So to
• 17:41
  do that right. is to have what is that real give
• 17:45
  and give in a conversation where you simply don't
• 17:49
  just shift gears because you need to make your
• 17:50
  point or you harp so much on what they're doing,
• 17:53
  you miss the chance to share about yourself.
• 17:56
  It is that deep listening that makes it more
• 17:59
  nuanced and different, but you have to put enough
• 18:02
  out there many times to get somebody to open
• 18:06
  up because in a conference setting in particular,
• 18:08
  just to keep this going. How many people do you
• 18:11
  talk to within a given day? How many people are
• 18:14
  memorable? Tell me it's more than three for anyone.
• 18:18
  So how are you going to be one of those three?
• 18:21
  But then the follow -up is warranted. You actually
• 18:24
  get the contact information and know it will
• 18:26
  be reciprocated. Or you've even set an intention
• 18:29
  from it. All this is an art and it's a science
• 18:34
  that involves that self -work. You have to study
• 18:39
  how you show up to people to understand that
• 18:42
  your style and mine are going to be totally different.
• 18:44
  Your outcome is different than mine. You are
• 18:47
  a sought after speaker looking for those keynote
• 18:49
  opportunities to do your workshops and to speak.
• 18:52
  That's not how my network works or how my business
• 18:55
  works. So I have something different from the
• 18:57
  same conversation, even if we have the same approach
• 19:00
  to start it off. Absolutely. And it all goes
• 19:04
  back to active listening. Right. You have to
• 19:09
  listen to the person that you're speaking with.
• 19:12
  And I call it active listening because you're
• 19:15
  not just hearing them. You're listening to what
• 19:18
  they have to say. And after they finish talking,
• 19:21
  you're pausing. And that pause becomes so important.
• 19:26
  It's because it tells the other person you are
• 19:28
  listening to them and you have to respond to
• 19:32
  them with what they were talking about, not the
• 19:35
  next thing that you wanted to say. And that's
• 19:38
  so hard for somebody. If you're a salesman, I've
• 19:42
  been a salesman for 30 years. And you're always
• 19:45
  trying to sell something. But to be a networking
• 19:49
  person, you listen to what the person has to
• 19:52
  say. You respond to the person. you take notes
• 19:56
  and everything else. And I have to say, when
• 20:00
  you follow up with these people, now you're saying
• 20:04
  that you generally have three people that you
• 20:09
  remember. In a three or four hour event, I say
• 20:13
  take 15, 20 business cards. I used to, listen,
• 20:18
  I was in a mortgage industry. I used to come
• 20:21
  home with a shoebox filled with business cards
• 20:23
  and say, look how good I did when I really didn't
• 20:27
  do well at all. But on the back of your business
• 20:29
  card, on their business card, you write down
• 20:32
  the date, the name of the function, and something
• 20:34
  you spoke about. So when you do follow up with
• 20:37
  them, it jogs your memory. But that's a whole
• 20:40
  other conversation. It's an important thing to
• 20:43
  note, though. I know you have more questions,
• 20:44
  but I want to harp on this because the art of
• 20:46
  doing this. is so crucial. What I have adapted
• 20:50
  now and how I work in my world of connecting,
• 20:53
  networking, my own events, tons of conferences,
• 20:55
  I will actually look at the person and say, Michael,
• 20:59
  I really enjoyed talking about this. I'd love
• 21:01
  to follow up with another call about this. And
• 21:04
  then whether it's LinkedIn or WhatsApp or email
• 21:07
  or text or any variation, I will literally send
• 21:10
  them a note live to say, Michael, I'm looking
• 21:13
  forward to talking about AI and the service industry.
• 21:18
  And then they remember it too. And from the staff,
• 21:21
  even a 15 or 20, sometimes I end up with 10 great
• 21:25
  meetings from a conference. Depends on the number
• 21:27
  of people, the type of conference, how many days.
• 21:30
  But I don't end up with three of those people
• 21:34
  to me. I'm a minority in the type of people I
• 21:38
  follow up with because they need to resonate
• 21:41
  enough to be worth the time as I'm trying to
• 21:45
  do for them. And it is really difficult to remember
• 21:50
  everyone you've met unless you resonated in that
• 21:52
  moment and set the intention to connect further.
• 21:56
  That's so true. That's so true. When you're doing
• 21:58
  your follow -up, the follow -up, I feel, is more
• 22:02
  important actually than meeting the person. Because
• 22:04
  the way you follow up, just how you follow up,
• 22:07
  the way you follow up is so very important. And
• 22:11
  I have a whole secret sauce with following up.
• 22:16
  From that first email, text, WhatsApp, whatever
• 22:20
  the case may be, from that first touch forward,
• 22:23
  that will determine the type of relationship
• 22:26
  you're going to have with that person. So it's
• 22:30
  very important. What does a truly connected community
• 22:34
  look like to you? And how can you build it intentionally
• 22:38
  in both business and life? I'll qualify to say,
• 22:45
  although business and life are separated, I don't
• 22:49
  believe they are separate because we are each
• 22:51
  one person. The idea that people wear hats and
• 22:55
  you're approaching them on one hat versus another
• 22:58
  means you're being pigeonholed into the thing
• 23:01
  they want to hear you on. When you connect with
• 23:04
  somebody at a deeper level in, as your question
• 23:08
  alludes to, a community, you can connect on a
• 23:11
  myriad of different reasons. Some are actionable,
• 23:14
  some are informational, some are personal, but
• 23:17
  they're all to the same person. And so the difference
• 23:21
  in what makes a community function as opposed
• 23:24
  to even just the network is, it may be as we
• 23:28
  develop our relationship, I will never ever provide
• 23:31
  you a lead gen, a speaking opportunity, or a
• 23:34
  client. But if somebody I know who trusts me
• 23:38
  that then meets you does so, without an expectation
• 23:42
  in return from you or me, then you have a community.
• 23:47
  Because a community can have these different
• 23:49
  swirling circles where you can trust that if
• 23:51
  everyone's intentions are purposeful, then at
• 23:55
  some point it will come back to you. But my argument
• 23:59
  is, related to risk earlier as your first question,
• 24:02
  you have to have a community where there's an
• 24:04
  expectation of reciprocity, even if it is in
• 24:08
  a chain of connections. as opposed to me to you
• 24:12
  and you to me. And the community that I run,
• 24:15
  which I call orchestrated connecting, because
• 24:18
  I'm both a composer whose music no one listens
• 24:20
  to, even when I say I'm a composer and they like
• 24:23
  what I say, but also somebody who runs a network
• 24:26
  in several businesses. I trust that if I were
• 24:30
  to ask anyone on my network to take the time,
• 24:32
  they would take the time. Because they trust
• 24:36
  that when I would ask people to take time for
• 24:38
  them, it would also happen. And both of those
• 24:41
  examples, the risk is inherent. If you refuse
• 24:44
  to take time for something that I think would
• 24:47
  be beneficial, then somebody may refuse to take
• 24:50
  time for you, or I may refuse to ask because
• 24:54
  you valued your time above helping somebody else.
• 24:58
  That's very true. And it all depends on how you
• 25:02
  look at yourself, your time, but you go back
• 25:05
  to that same basic level of trust. The people
• 25:10
  within your community, they trust you wholeheartedly.
• 25:15
  So if you recommend somebody to them, of course,
• 25:19
  they're going to take that leap and touch base
• 25:22
  with that person. Otherwise, they wouldn't be
• 25:25
  part of your community. You know, so of course,
• 25:29
  only when you set the intention for how the community
• 25:32
  needs to function, because there are people that
• 25:35
  are really good people who might be moderate
• 25:37
  givers. But in some cases, they'll happily help
• 25:41
  if they've been helped, but they weigh whether
• 25:45
  they've been helped recently enough to spend
• 25:47
  their time. Whereas in my network, somebody can
• 25:50
  have been helped by me two years ago, but because
• 25:53
  it was so substantive, they're willing anytime
• 25:57
  I ask, but they know I only ask when it's completely
• 25:59
  relevant and useful. Good point. That's quite
• 26:05
  well taken. Okay. You've said before that connection
• 26:10
  without curiosity is just performance. Can you
• 26:14
  speak to that idea and how it shows up in today's
• 26:17
  networking spaces? Let me back that one out to
• 26:22
  the world of dating. Now, I haven't been on a
• 26:25
  date in a very long time, but this resonates
• 26:28
  with everyone who has. Same thing as that person
• 26:31
  who spoke at you at the conference, right? Think
• 26:35
  about... The one date you went on where you met
• 26:39
  years ago for both of us, the most gorgeous,
• 26:42
  incredible person they had everything. You're
• 26:47
  describing my wife. There you go. But see, you
• 26:50
  built a long, bigger connection, right? But think
• 26:53
  about the person five years before, unless you
• 26:56
  were high school sweethearts and don't because
• 26:57
  13 years old has been way too strange. But think
• 27:00
  about that person that just the initial spark
• 27:03
  seemed like it would light a fire. And you told
• 27:07
  them everything about yourself, everything that's
• 27:09
  great about you, everything that would make you
• 27:11
  incredible, and then they never called back.
• 27:17
  That's the price of having no curiosity. Everyone
• 27:21
  I know has had a situation or multiples like
• 27:23
  that, or wonder why, if they're such a great
• 27:26
  friend, why they can't find that right partner.
• 27:30
  And in business and networking and all of this
• 27:33
  is inherently the same. We are looking for a
• 27:35
  validation for who we are and what we do and
• 27:38
  the people who give us that we will spend more
• 27:40
  time with. And that is a given gift that is for
• 27:46
  which curiosity is essential as one of the two
• 27:50
  primary ingredients. It does. That sounds like
• 27:54
  it is essential, but very good. Thank you. What
• 27:57
  are some small. Practical ways people can take
• 28:02
  more social or emotional risks in networking
• 28:05
  without feeling overwhelmed. When you look at
• 28:11
  the world of what you don't know, it's completely
• 28:15
  overwhelming. Where should you go? Should you
• 28:19
  keep your job? Should you go back to school?
• 28:21
  Should you join this network? Should you go to
• 28:23
  this other network? We're always looking for
• 28:26
  how we are out facing to get something. The most
• 28:30
  practical small step is do a little bit of intention
• 28:33
  setting so that when you ask for what you need,
• 28:36
  people are able to know where you need to go.
• 28:40
  And so that's a simple way of saying the more
• 28:42
  you figure your stuff out, the easier it is for
• 28:46
  people to help you. And the hardest part is knowing
• 28:48
  how to ask for it. If you can't ask for it, that
• 28:53
  is the hardest part. Yeah. And think about it,
• 28:57
  right? If somebody knows what you need, then
• 29:00
  they can be your advocate or champion. If they
• 29:03
  don't know, then the fact they can't define it
• 29:06
  is a negative against you. Somebody comes, you're
• 29:10
  like, I have to find a new job. You're like,
• 29:12
  okay, I'd like to help you. They're like, I need
• 29:14
  a new job. And you're like, what type of job?
• 29:17
  And they're like, I could do anything. And I
• 29:18
  was like, yeah, no one's looking for anything.
• 29:22
  But if you come and you say, I was the CFO of
• 29:25
  a company. I really love doing that work. When
• 29:28
  the startup was acquired, I realized I'd like
• 29:31
  to help several startups. You know anyone that's
• 29:33
  a fractional CFO I could talk to? Or several
• 29:36
  companies looking for somebody with exit experience
• 29:39
  in fintech? Then even the person who's not a
• 29:43
  connector like you or I will go, yeah, you should
• 29:45
  talk to Joe. You have to be specific, which means
• 29:49
  you have to know how to trigger that specificity
• 29:54
  in others. Once you understand the impact ask,
• 29:56
  as I call it, the power of that ask, then all
• 30:00
  the research you do of where to belong, who to
• 30:03
  talk to, where you might need to build what you
• 30:05
  need to for your business and your life, it no
• 30:08
  longer is vast and overwhelming. It's lots of
• 30:11
  specific little parts that you can now plug yourself
• 30:14
  into much better. Absolutely. That's great, great
• 30:19
  advice. Focusing on, let's say, what you can
• 30:23
  do, what you can't do, but narrowing the field,
• 30:26
  make it laser focused so that somebody else can
• 30:31
  help you. That is great, great advice. Okay.
• 30:35
  In your experience, excuse me, in your experience,
• 30:40
  what happens when we build networks in rooted
• 30:43
  authenticity rather than agenda? And how does
• 30:47
  that shift? How does that shift the outcome?
• 30:52
  I'm really grateful, Michael, for the community
• 30:54
  that I've built, because when I make an ask,
• 30:58
  the answer every time is anything for you. Imagine
• 31:04
  the power of having hundreds, or in my cases
• 31:08
  at this point, thousands of people willing to
• 31:12
  bend over backwards for something not relevant
• 31:15
  for them. That is rooted not just in trust, but
• 31:20
  in action. I've earned that. I've put the time
• 31:25
  in. And so when I come in to quote cash in my
• 31:28
  chips, the people have been waiting. In some
• 31:31
  cases, they felt really guilty. And in many cases,
• 31:34
  it's not even me that helped them. It's somebody
• 31:37
  I know who helped them that they met through
• 31:40
  the network. But you don't have to be a master
• 31:43
  connector or networker running a big community
• 31:45
  like I do. You simply have to look at everyone
• 31:49
  around you. as an opportunity to help them and
• 31:55
  to know at some point you may be helped in return
• 31:57
  or they may help somebody else you love and respect.
• 32:01
  That's why it's purposeful, the way we can design
• 32:04
  this. And we may believe we're powerless in this,
• 32:06
  but I know that we have a choice who we surround
• 32:10
  ourselves with, who we spend our time with, who
• 32:14
  we partner with, who we work with. In some cases,
• 32:18
  it's out of our control. But as we go through
• 32:20
  this life, we are less and less out of control,
• 32:23
  right? You start with your family, into your
• 32:25
  schooling, into your initial work. But as your
• 32:29
  life progresses, the thing we have to realize
• 32:30
  that needs to be flipped on its head is it's
• 32:33
  a choice who we surround ourselves with. And
• 32:36
  therefore, the more intentionality of that, the
• 32:39
  better the outcome from it. That's great. That's
• 32:44
  great. David, you... are speaking like a successful
• 32:48
  person. You have been through the lows, the highs,
• 32:53
  and you've come out of this smelling pretty good.
• 32:57
  But think back for a minute. Think back of the
• 33:02
  mistakes you've made. And I'm sure there's one
• 33:05
  or two. But give me a mistake that you've made
• 33:10
  and how you overcame it. I believe you only learn
• 33:15
  from mistakes. Everything that I have now, and
• 33:19
  it might smell of success. I don't know if it's
• 33:22
  necessarily that. The joke right now, as we do
• 33:24
  this podcast is, you might have a book coming
• 33:26
  out August 5th around Purposal Community and
• 33:29
  Connection. It might be a bestseller, or I might
• 33:31
  put author on my LinkedIn page. And I have a
• 33:35
  startup that's launching, and I might be a successful
• 33:37
  exited founder, or I might just put founder on
• 33:41
  my LinkedIn page. The way we perceive success
• 33:44
  is always relative because even nature is to
• 33:47
  want more. Where I made my biggest mistakes were
• 33:52
  in wanting more without understanding not only
• 33:55
  my value, but really in understanding other people's
• 33:58
  value around me. So the origin story of orchestrated
• 34:03
  connecting is the best example of this. And no,
• 34:05
  I won't give you the 20 minute spiel because
• 34:07
  we're on a time limit here. But essentially,
• 34:09
  I built a network of trust where I didn't connect
• 34:12
  the people I trusted to each other. That was
• 34:15
  one of the biggest mistakes of my life because
• 34:17
  everyone around me needed something I couldn't
• 34:20
  do when I was in the way. And I realized that
• 34:23
  the best way to build my intentional network
• 34:26
  was to get out of the way by getting those people
• 34:29
  to meet each other. I had to develop a rule system,
• 34:33
  a mantra, all these different parts to make it
• 34:35
  work. But in the end, Michael, what really worked?
• 34:38
  was learning that I was not nearly as good as
• 34:42
  I thought I was with seeing the patterns and
• 34:45
  balancing my time and helping people. And I was
• 34:49
  absolutely horrendous at demonstrating my value
• 34:53
  while doing it. Okay. Okay. Let's bring this
• 34:58
  podcast full circle. If someone is listening
• 35:02
  today, feeling disconnected, guarded, or unsure
• 35:05
  of how to start, What's the first step toward
• 35:09
  building community with purpose and heart? You
• 35:14
  know, what I have to say now, according to my
• 35:16
  publicist, is read my book, Orchestrating Connection,
• 35:19
  How to Build Purposeful Community in a Tribal
• 35:21
  World. But because not everyone reads a book
• 35:24
  in my family, what I'm basically going to do
• 35:26
  is have a bunch of coasters, because that's what
• 35:28
  we call my classical albums that everyone used
• 35:31
  to buy, coasters. I put everything up on my website.
• 35:34
  I put it up in video form. I've really tried
• 35:38
  to convey to everyone that to start, the most
• 35:42
  important thing is to know you have to, as per
• 35:45
  all of your great questions today, you have to
• 35:47
  get outside your comfort zone. And by getting
• 35:51
  outside your comfort zone, you have to know that
• 35:52
  you're going to get both great response and great
• 35:56
  criticism for not just talking with the people
• 35:59
  who validate you, who know you. And some are
• 36:02
  going to like you. Some are going to love you.
• 36:03
  Some are not going to care in the slightest.
• 36:06
  And the minute you start to see the patterns
• 36:09
  of how somebody responds to you or not, you gain
• 36:12
  more control, more confidence, so to speak. And
• 36:16
  you start to see which people to avoid, which
• 36:18
  is as important as which people to embrace. Very
• 36:22
  good. David, I have to tell you, you're a fantastic
• 36:25
  guest. I loved having you on. But if somebody
• 36:29
  wanted to get hold of you, what's the best way?
• 36:34
  If you Google me. and you look at my websites,
• 36:36
  business or community, I put my information out
• 36:39
  there. My email, if you actually Google hard
• 36:42
  enough, you can find my cell phone. But I believe
• 36:45
  in a world of intentional connection. So if somebody
• 36:48
  were to listen to this and want to connect, the
• 36:51
  first thing I'd ask for them to do is to write
• 36:53
  you as a listener and to thank you for your podcast
• 36:57
  and for your work. The second thing I would then
• 37:01
  suggest is if something struck them, Don't just
• 37:04
  write me and be like, hey, let's connect. Really
• 37:07
  means you didn't listen to the last 30 minutes
• 37:09
  of our conversation. Is there something that
• 37:11
  I'm offering or something that I'm doing that
• 37:13
  we think there could be reciprocal value? Because
• 37:16
  in the world of running a community and a network
• 37:18
  and a business and being an active dad with kids
• 37:21
  who are 8 and 11, it's the thing I've lost in
• 37:23
  my life is time. Therefore, if you're going to
• 37:27
  add to value and time, and I can do the same.
• 37:32
  Let's build a relationship. Otherwise, if there's
• 37:35
  things that one could learn from what I'm saying,
• 37:37
  buy the book. That's great. That's great. David,
• 37:42
  again, thank you for coming on the podcast. And
• 37:46
  I hope to talk to you again soon. Absolutely.
• 37:49
  Thank you so much for having me, Michael. And
• 37:51
  thank you for all the work that you do. Well,
• 37:54
  hold on, folks. Don't go anywhere. Let me just
• 37:57
  read a few of our sponsors that we have. Struggling
• 38:00
  to reach success? Maybe it's time to quit. In
• 38:03
  Quit Your Way to Success by Rodney Davis, this
• 38:07
  reveals 27 steps to breaking bad habits that
• 38:11
  hold you back. This powerful book helps you rewire
• 38:14
  your mindset, take control of your actions, and
• 38:18
  turn setbacks into stepping stones. With real
• 38:21
  -life examples, motivational quotes, and actionable
• 38:24
  lessons, especially for sales professionals.
• 38:28
  You'll gain the tools to quit, what's stopping
• 38:30
  you, and start winning. Transform your future
• 38:33
  today. So Quit Your Way to Success by Rodney
• 38:37
  Davis, available now on Amazon. And this is a
• 38:41
  nonprofit called Revved Up Kids. This is something
• 38:44
  I believe in wholeheartedly. Revved Up Kids is
• 38:48
  on a mission to protect children and teens from
• 38:51
  sexual abuse. exploitation, and trafficking.
• 38:54
  They provide prevention training programs for
• 38:57
  children, teens, and adults. To learn more, go
• 39:01
  to revvedupkids .org. That's R -E -V -V -E -D
• 39:06
  -U -P -K -I -D -S dot org. Well, that's our folks.
• 39:13
  A huge thank you to our special guests for sharing
• 39:16
  such incredible insights today. And of course,
• 39:19
  a big shout out to you, our amazing listeners,
• 39:23
  for tuning in and spending your time with us.
• 39:26
  Remember, networking isn't about being perfect.
• 39:30
  It's about being present. So take what you've
• 39:33
  learned today, get out there, and make some meaningful
• 39:36
  connections. If you enjoyed this episode, don't
• 39:39
  forget to subscribe, leave us a review, and share
• 39:42
  it with someone who could use a little networking
• 39:45
  inspiration. Let's keep the conversation going.
• 39:48
  You can find me on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or
• 39:53
  my website, Michael Foreman. Remember, until
• 39:56
  next time, keep practicing, keep connecting,
• 40:00
  and keep building those relationships. This is
• 40:03
  Michael A. Foreman signing off. Take care and
• 40:06
  happy networking.