Latest / The Eko Lens Podcast / AI Glasses & the Future of Accessibility
Transcript
- speaker-0: Welcome to the Echo Lens, the podcast where we review its system of technology through the eyes of lived experience. I'm your host, Kenisha, and each week we explore how dignity, design, and innovation intersect to empower blind and low vision communities. We're not just reviewing tech, we're reframing it. So this is a space for truth telling, for honoring the voices that often go unheard, and for challenging the industry to do better. So whether you're a developer, a user, or someone who simply believes in equity, you're in the right place. This is the Echo Lens. Let's take a closer look. Hey everyone, welcome back. So we're trying something a little bit Different. This is going to be like one of our many episodes that we're doing. I we've added some accessibility ambassadors to our team. I'm really excited to get to talk on a different level with some folks that we've had on the podcast in the past. And we're going to talk about some more specific things. And our our first accessibility ambassador that we're bringing on is Dr. Jesse. And I'm so excited to have you back. Jesse, how are you? speaker-1: I'm doing great. You know, enjoying the weather getting nicer here in Iowa and you know, always happy to connect with you and just love being involved in this project and speaker-0: Yeah, we're we're super excited to have you back. Iowa, yes, here in Michigan we're getting a little bit warmer as well. The sun was peaking out today, and then it decided to go away again. So maybe it'll come back today. Yeah. So Jesse and I have been having some conversations offline about different types of AI glasses and experiencing using them because we had both really never had them before. And I have some other guests that I've had in the past that have used AI glasses like on a a regular basis. And I remember we were having a conversation ⁓ a little bit ago, Jesse, about how you were like going on a cruise and we were thinking about how we could like how would AI glasses be like helpful when you were going on the cruise with your family? And so do you use AI glasses right now or speaker-1: Don't yet. You know, I've I've tried a I've tried a couple of pairs. I've I've done a lot of research. I've followed a lot of creators that are that are doing this. And I was I was about to pull the trigger on a pair earlier this year and and decided a couple of things. I I had gotten word that that ⁓ there's maybe gonna be some new metaglasses coming out. And so I wanted to I wanted to wait on that, but I also wanted to wait. I kind of question, I guess, what version is best. And I re and I'm also kind of watching, you know, is is Meta the best way to go? Are these off brands? You know, what are people doing with the off brands? You know, the issues with that. And honestly, I wanted to see since the cruise line, since many cruise lines now, are banning smart glasses. I wanted to see what issues I may or may not have without a pair and and and learn some things on board ⁓ as to why they did that and see what how that might influence even other areas of life having them. speaker-0: Yeah, and it's interesting. So there's there's like three I I was doing some research and there's like three different categories of AI glasses. There's mainstream, so that's like the meta ones would probably be put under there. So they're they're stylish, they're cheaper, they're more customer focused for fun. Then there's the accessibility ones. There's there are some that are specifically built for blind and low vision users. And then there's the really heavy-duty enterprise ones that are like more advanced, but they're really expensive and specialized. I have like the meta ones. So I get the meta gen twos and I just got them through actually through the blind the Bureau of Blind and Low Vision Services helped me get them. Cause I was like, I really wanna like use them. But I had to when they couldn't like help me put a script in them. They said we can order them, but we liability or something, like you have to do the script. So I had to do a script and get my script in it. And I mean, I'm just trying to get used to ⁓ but they're not specifically designed for, I guess, more visually impaired than myself. I would say not does they're not designed specifically for blind users. They're for the consumer population. speaker-1: The other thing the other thing that's kind of happened for me and I ha it's it's a conversation I haven't been able to have yet. my in in my family, we have we have somebody joining our family that actually just got his PhD in artificial intelligence. ⁓ speaker-0: Wow. Ooh, that sounds fun. I need to learn more about that. speaker-1: Yes. I I'm learning slowly. He and his brother have developed sunglasses. They have a sunglasses company. And the next time I see him, one of the things I want to talk to him about is is if they're doing anything with AI with with their with their glasses. Yeah. So, you know, there's there's that. So several things, you know, but but very, very much on my mind. The other thing I really kind of have questioned is like with any technology, I I'm not afraid to jump into new technology and I think we're past the new stage. But I wanna see how other people react, what issues they have, that kind of thing. And so we have we have a gentleman in our Alliance Club, our vice president has been in meta for about a month. speaker-0: Okay. Okay. speaker-1: And he hasn't talked a lot about it. so is so I'm kind of learning that as well. But definitely a direct headed and ⁓ I I wish they the missing piece really is the cost for a lot of people. It's not not necessarily an issue for me, but I I you know, you spend that kind of money and you wanna make sure it's gonna work. speaker-0: Well, even the meta ones might be more under the umbrella of quote unquote cost effective, but they're still three hundred dollars or four hundred dollars, right? But there's ones like the the Cam MyA. And once we get bigger into the ⁓ those X, they're called X Real classes that are for like screen mirroring and low vision enhancement. And those are for like fully blind users, but those still cost. a couple of thousand dollars and that's for that like I guess that's why you know Equivision Foundation exists too because that's like such a huge price. How are we justifying that someone gets that, you know, and then it doesn't work for them. That's like a huge waste towards the disability tax. Like that they're not, you know, and how and like two thousand dollars is you know a lot of money. That's rent, house payment. Like and I think that that a lot of these up and coming blind and low vision Like especially the AI glasses and the smart glasses and things like that. I think that for blind and low vision folks, like vision is a necessity. How can we get those things covered by insurance? speaker-1: Right. And and the other the other piece of it is in smaller communities. ⁓ By by definition, Mason City is is kind of on the verge of not being a small town, but very small town mentality for me. Looking into walking into a store that sells these, you can try them on all you want. They're just not fully functioning. And that that is a huge that's a huge downfall. Cause you can't fully see the benefits. speaker-0: And then access to like, you know, how do we know what applications to use? ⁓ right? Like some of them, like Be My Eyes is, you know, accessible with Meta and Picky Bot is accessible with Meta. And then I know that like some of the other ones have different apps that are accessible with them, but it's How are we making it equitable for or how are the developers thinking about equitability across the blindness spectrum? Because not everyone, there's different levels, right? And how are we making it accessible, especially to folks who have completely no vision at all? You're talking about the rural areas, and this is a huge issue that people really don't talk about enough, right? Because not only do we not have access to them fully working, but you know, there's there's not access to ⁓ the education like you said. ⁓ and then we go in deeper to all of the other things that there's not maybe even access to reliable internet fully one hundred percent of the way. And you know, all of these smart and ⁓ AI glasses, you have to have some sort of connection to the internet for them to be able to focus and work fully. ⁓ you know. There there's sometimes that that's a barrier. And then like you said, are there places that are actually gonna sell it? And if you are able to work with state agencies like I did, right, but there's still limited access to that and long waits for services and then so many applications. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. And and it's it's and part of it too is me I think Meta specifically could do a better job marketing to they could do a better job marketing to the low vision community and explaining. I don't don't worry about the whole be my eyes and and picky bottom. Don't don't worry about those features for a second. But just in general, what do these things do? You know. I know that I can look at something and say, hey, what color is this shirt? Right. I I know I can do that. Yeah. But, you know, let's take it a step further. You know, you I know you can make phone calls with it. I don't know if everybody knows that. Right. You know, what what are the other features? You know, if I'm I'm just outside and if I want to, you know, take ⁓ if I want something described where I don't necessarily want to go into be my eyes, right? Would it do that? I, you know, I don't know if everybody knows the answer. That question, right? So that speaker-0: It depends. I've tried. speaker-1: And that's the other thing is I speaker-0: But they don't but they don't give you any direction on it. You're right. It even in the box it it comes with like a scan the app to connect and do all that. Well, okay, but that's another accessibility issue for folks like us. Like I need I I don't know, I need I guess we could go to the Apple store and get tech support or whatever, but then again, more resources. Rural counties don't have that, right? So speaker-1: And that's that's but that's the other issue is now we you know we have I was so disappointed when, you know, app now that you bring up Apple speaker-0: Yeah, I know I said apple 'cause Ray Bad Apple different meta different speaker-1: So much. They've done so much in the accessibility community for you know 30 years basically that when when Apple dropped the Vision Pro, I thought, my word, this is great. You know, this is wonderful. And I told the e site folks, I said, Hey, this is this is this could be a game changer for you guys. But the price was so high. That by that point, you know, ESight had undercut them, you know. So I two issues. One is one is the disability tax. Mm-hmm. And the second issue is that I think we ⁓ are are gonna change we we change technology so much that by the time somebody goes into something and you get used to it, there's something new. And If you're on if you're on a fixed income, whatever that may look like for somebody, you're you're gonna have a hard time keeping up and and doing those upgrades and and doing the these things. So that that's an issue as well. So ⁓ I I I really wish these companies would catch up, I guess, if you speaker-0: Yeah. Do you do you find that you have, especially with all that new technology that comes out or ⁓ me tr I know I feel this a little bit when I'm trying so many new things that I have like app fatigue or I get tech overload because I'm like there's just so many different things I'm expected to learn on my own with not a lot of help. And and many of these apps aren't tested by blind users. Like you said, accessibility changes overnight. Some apps work on differently on iPhone versus Android. They're always updating. There, I th I think that, you know, another reason Echo Vision Foundation is here and we're doing this is because we need to rely now. We're we're pulling back to rely on community recommendations about things because like the direct companies aren't going to our specific blind and low vision groups and asking us questions to make their product better. speaker-1: Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. And and I think you're I think you're right. I feel like that is going to change. You know, maybe at some point, just because we have we have a whole nother generation of not just users coming up, we have new generation of developers coming up. And I feel like the ability to code, the ability to vo to develop. I mean, I don't even care if you're vibe coding. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. The ability for someone that that is sight impaired, either fully or com or or partially, has the ability to to create these apps and create these systems now. And so I feel like and and we've seen that before. I mean, where where somebody I I think that's where the that's where the Jordy came from was because there was an eye doctor that had seen some issues. You know, I think that's kind of where e site came from. That's the reason the you know, that that your foundation exists, you know, it so I think that's gonna become more prevalent. speaker-0: Yeah, and I think, you know, that really fits into the mission that we have and and the work that we're doing because we're literally trying to create space for us to be able to do that. ⁓ like, do you think that that ⁓ you know, how do you feel about users like us being beta testers for tech communities? Like I think that we should be doing it, but also do you feel like, you know, d especially the bigger comput companies like Meta and and the w what was the other one that you said? I IMED? speaker-1: Well, I meant I mentioned obviously Meta, right? I'd mentioned Apple Vision Pro, but then I mentioned some older technologies, the Jordy, which that the Jordy years ago. You know, they're not they're not making them anymore. They didn't make ⁓ even very long because of parts issues. You know, and then E site, of course, is has been the real game. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, do you think they're compensating their like beta testers? I wonder. speaker-1: No, no, they're definitely no, they're definitely not. I am I am aware that eSight has done significant beta testing. But to my knowledge, there has been no compensation. Now, that was the old model. That was before they were owned by a different company and that sort of thing. So I I don't know really what's changed there. I haven't heard a lot of things in that arena. You know, maybe that's changed. Hopefully it has. I I I think it would be helpful to compensate beta testers, but but that's not common in tech. Software companies don't and hardware companies. speaker-0: learning that. Yeah. Somehow I got signed up for that beta testing, I guess. I don't know. I never do a survey or anything, but you know, get the early access to all the iPhone updates. Right. speaker-1: Right. And and so you're a beta tester, right? So so yeah, and and I've done that as well. And and we you know, it's great to get the updates, but that's but that's just it whether it's Apple or whether it's ⁓ you know, any company. I just don't think in the history of tech that that beta testing has been a paid a paid thing. speaker-0: Really interesting. That should be because I feel like I think of it as in some of the other systems change work that I do, that it's something that should be because it's you're like using someone's lived experience, right? And I think that people should be compensated for that. But that's that's a whole nother different concept. speaker-1: It's a whole nother thing, but you're not definitely I I definitely I definitely see where you're coming from and I you know, maybe maybe we'll see that change someday. speaker-0: Well, Jesse, you know, technology is like moving faster and faster and and and accessibility is changing. So it it has to be right about whether people can really choose, like really truly use the tools every day, right? Despite their disability and their income, their internet access, whatever it is. Like hopefully folks that are listening to this really think about not just creating smarter technology, but equitable. technology, right? For us to be able to like navigate and participate on all levels. speaker-1: Yeah. No, it's definitely definitely a thing. speaker-0: Well, well this was fun, Jesse. I loved talking to you about this. I can't wait until we get into some more product talk about some other things. It's gonna be fun. speaker-1: Absolutely. You know, I I think we need to continue the conversations and I believe I believe that even for people that aren't in the tech, like or I'm not in the AI glasses yet, you know, following and watching what people are doing. And, you know, there's a whole nother side there's a whole nother side to that technology. And I think part of that is identifying and gaining an understanding and doing the advocacy work to overcome some of these challenges like with the cruise line and like with you know I I think we we are gonna I I could see us being I could see us in a place eventually where certain facilities, ⁓ workout facilities, for example, hospitals potentially, could say, ⁓ hey, we're not gonna allow this technology. So, you know, unfortunately I could see this being I could see it being a long term solution. But I could also see it being in a way very short lived in certain communities. speaker-0: No, I I definitely agree. Well, I hope that there's some ways that we can overcome some of that. speaker-1: Absolutely. speaker-0: Thanks for being with us today, Jesse. I appreciate it. Okay. Well, thanks for joining us on the Echo Lens, where we view assistive tech through the Eyes of Lived experience. So if today's conversation sparks something in you, you can share it and rate it and keep the dialogue going. So to learn more about the beautiful project or to support our work, you can visit Eko Vision Foundation.org. But until next time, stay curious, stay connected, and keep seeing with love. Thanks, everybody.