Latest / Breakdown Besties | Bollywood Screenwriting Podcast / E32: Being in the Business of Immortality | Fashion Screenwriter Anuraadha Tewari

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E32: Being in the Business of Immortality | Fashion Screenwriter Anuraadha Tewari · Breakdown Besties | Bollywood Screenwriting Podcast

• Anuraadha Tewari: I always ask people what is the cinema orgasm you're looking for that you think the audience will have. Akshay: Hmm. Mm. Ananya: Hmm, Anuraadha Tewari: the part where she wakes up with the black man I did not write that. I just wrote a random man. Akshay: Ha ha ha. Anuraadha Tewari: So I will live for the rest of my life clarifying. a writer's room is writers in the room. So Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: let the writers do the job the success of fashion, it has hugely to do with Priyanka herself because of the kind of hard work she put in. the rules of writing are exactly like music So either you get my song or you say ganaini achalaga, I'm fine with But my basura Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: I tell a few producers that see the credit is not money saved by, the credit Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: is produced by. my first thing was that this story is about a model, it's not about the fashion business. I'll give it to you in writing, is that a structure never fails. fashion is of course my most known work, it's also the most unfiltered, undiluted work. Akshay: Hmm, Anuraadha Tewari: We are one of the few industries in the business of immortality, I call it. Akshay: Hello everyone and welcome to the Breakdown Besties podcast. I'm Akshay. Ananya: I'm Ananya. Akshay: And combined, we have a writing experience of more than 14 years in Bollywood. We've written for shows like Mismatched, Inside Edge, Rana Naidu, Grahan, and many more. But enough about us. Today, we have a guest bestie on our podcast. We call them the guestie. And she has been working in the Indian media industry for more than 30 years. And when I say Indian media industry purposely, not the film industry, because she has successfully aced television, film, and now the web. So yeah, we have with us on the pod the writer of Fashion, Anuraadha Tewari! Anuraadha Tewari: Hey, hey everybody, Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: Happy to be here. Thank you and thank you for having me over here because hey, we're writers, we love to talk. Yes. Uh-huh. Akshay: Yeah. I was at one of the MAMI premiers and Ananya: Yes. Akshay: I was sitting next to a director and then the next to the director there was another director and then was there was a writer. But Anuraadha Tewari: Okay. Akshay: me and the writer just started chatting so much between the two people and then Ananya: Mm. Akshay: finally Tanuja was the director and she said, my god, you're such writers, you just can't stop talking, you're non stop. It seem it definitely seems like you've not spoken to anybody in the day because you were writing ten hours a day. Anuraadha Tewari: Yeah, now you know exactly. Welcome to our lives. Yeah, I mean that you Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: know, just seguing off from there, that's so true because you know, everybody knows that I have this sort of need to step out every evening, every single evening. I have to be out and I have to first be under the sky. So, you know, all Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: the cafes love me. I love them because they are under the sky. And then, you know, you have to meet people, and then you know, so everybody asks, like, where do you get this energy from? I was like, Bro, all day I sat alone and wrote. I didn't speak Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: to nobody. So, you know. So exactly, I'm glad Ananya: Exactly. Anuraadha Tewari: you put it out there. Yes. So that's what that's the energy we have. Akshay: There was a that was a conscious Anuraadha Tewari: My first sort of tip to any writer watching this is that because whether you're working for somebody or yourself, you really are a freelancer in its truest sense, right? And you're there Ananya: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: for the boss of your time. So you must give the writer in your mind time off. Because uska Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: to kabi time khatami ni ota. You know. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So you must have a start. Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: So I can just start by giving you a very small insight that you know this is how I've been working for the last 20 years from when I turned a full-time writer. Is that I made a structure of my own for the day and I never never never skip it, even if I'm abroad. So the point is that every day at 12 sharp I am on this desk, you know, and I just sit there Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: and then the writing mind starts and then it pauses at 3, and then you know, again 4 to about 6. I have my second round, and then that's it, I'm off. And then if I have to write again, it's at night at ten. So what happens? You've trained your brain now to be productive and creative at particular times. So mostly it doesn't fail you either when it you know, when you have to produce it at that time. So yeah. Yeah, that's that's the thing. Akshay: Yeah. Great tip because honestly we've been talking to a lot of writers and a lot of them say the hardest job is actually sitting and writing. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: Yeah. So you know, of course, obviously we're all lucky to have met the legends and veterans in the beginning of our careers. So I was working with THE Javed Akhtar right, you know, in my first stint as an associate director. And he said something so wonderful that I'll never forget. He says look kid, you know, in his classic style, genius, you know, will strike you once a year, if that's what you're waiting for. So if you want to call yourself a writer, sit the heck down and write every single day, you know. And Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: that's that's really what I've carried throughout that, you know, as writers that's what you need to do because otherwise Ananya: No. Anuraadha Tewari: it's not gonna happen. You know, it's really Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: not gonna happen. So yeah. So so that's right. Ananya: Exactly. It's a muscle. You're going to the gym every day for your writing and you're building it. Anuraadha Tewari: That is so well put, exactly. So so you know, that's the one thing that I that I carry from there. And the others, when you turn a freelancer, then that's worse because there is no office and there is no, you know, there's no structure anymore. And therefore, Ananya: No. Yeah. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: people tend to take your time also for granted because you know, in fact, this is funny, some years ago I put it on Facebook and I got a lot of reactions on it where I said, in public interest, you know, because we're freelancers doesn't mean I'm available at your beck and call, koi bahaar se are lunch kill or no. Ananya: Oui. Anuraadha Tewari: I also have a working week. I'm Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: also available Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: post six and only on weekends, you know? So Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: so excuse me. Akshay: Yeah. When we started putting out breakdowns, one of the earlier films we spoke about was Fashion. And you were very Anuraadha Tewari: Yes, I remember that. Akshay: gracious and you like engaged with us on our socials, Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: you reshared all of our stuff and you communicated with us, which was very good. Thank you so much for that. So th that's Anuraadha Tewari: Thank you for sharing us, yeah. Akshay: the origin story Ananya: Mm. Akshay: of how this episode is now happening, essentially. I Anuraadha Tewari: Two that, yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: wanna take the conversation to the origin story of your journey with Fashion. Anuraadha Tewari: Mm-hmm. Okay. Akshay: So how did this project come to you? Because we're talking to a lot of writers and they're saying that it's very hard to navigate Bollywood. Like we don't know how projects come to you. And now we've all of us have worked enough to know that there are no two projects that come to you the same way. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: absolutely. absolutely, yeah. Akshay: So how did this happen with you for Fashion? Anuraadha Tewari: Okay, so let me answer the second part first. That yes, exactly like you said, there is no one way. And unfortunately, there is no way. Yes, of Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: course we have agencies today, of course we've all, you know, tried agents and all of that. They're good people. But I don't think, at least unlike maybe actors or whatever, that you know, somebody can go and pitch you and then you will get work. Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: It just doesn't work like that, right? So Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: I think there's really two simple ways. One is, of course, if you already have a filmography, then somebody in the room miraculously remembered you. Because either your previous work or your work at large resembles that. Or Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: in my case, I say, they will call me, you know. Because Akshay: But Anuraadha Tewari: I know that I will come in and, you know, kick ass and sort of Kick everybody's ass and you know, do what I have to do and get it done. So what happened was that the year was I think 2006, yeah, or seven, I forget. I think it was late 2006. And by which time I was already about 10 years, 10 years in the industry already. I had already started writing films for others. So my first film was Ananya: Okay. Anuraadha Tewari: Rahul for Prakash Jha. And then there was Yadein. I was totally part of Yadein. We can have a separate podcast on that. Okay. And Ananya: Hmm. Yes. Akshay: yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: then I also wrote a film called, I was part of a film called Supari. So these three had already happened. So by about this two thousand six or seven I'd written a lot You know, I was already contracted with Sony for a few years and then lots of other stuff. So I was writing a lot of either children's stuff like Shararat and all, you know. I mean totally yeah. Ananya: Hm, we love it. Such fans. Yeah. Akshay: Favorite, my Anuraadha Tewari: so lovely, I Akshay: favorite soul growing up. Anuraadha Tewari: know. There's a whole gen that grew up on it. So, you know, I'd already done that. So I was known as the youth specialist, as the alternative writer, because no soaps, that bone I did not have. So of course I really enjoyed it, was very grateful. But I just felt that, you know. Ananya: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: Because So so yeah so that so I was really thirsting for that. So at that Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: point I just said, you know what? I just have to drop this for now and see how it goes. So I just decided to quit. And everybody knew I used to quit after every three months or four months. So I'm not that writer who made many houses because of TV writing, unfortunately. I did travel the world. So you know, all that happened. So I dropped the rope and I said, I'm just going off to Ladakh. To make my short film, which I did. Now Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: I always narrate this because it's very poignant to me. So I was at this Barista near my house in Andheri, which is now which is no more, it used to be Dibella later. So it was this open air kind of thing, and the entire industry used to hang out there. I used to in fact call ourselves the Barista filmmakers, you know. Like whether it was Onir whether Akshay: Well. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: it was Subhash Kapoor, Leena Yadav, you know, everybody would hang Ananya: No. Anuraadha Tewari: out there and write and think and you know all of that. So I reached at my you know Barista. And it was it's right next to the sea. So I still remember that I, you know, I got off that time an auto, and instead of going to the barista, I just stood at the sea and I let the you know sea breeze just you know air my face, and I just felt so free, you know. And I still remember Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: wearing something green and like a flowy skirt, and I had a hat, so I must have been, you know, just that vision of somebody standing like that. And I didn't just think that you know entire barista would be looking at you. I mean, who cared either way? Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: But what was very lucky was that. The person sitting right there seeing me do all of this was my very dear friend Ram Mirchandani who I'd known from the beginning of my career from the Anupam Kher days. And you know, he'd sort of seen me write and all that, and and many other things in the middle where we'd spoken about writing but nothing had worked out so far. So he looked at me and said, come here Anuraadha, you're looking very free. So I said, Yeah, Ram, I Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: am very free. So he said, What nonsense? You're coming to write Fashion. So I said, How what? Because up until then there was a lot of press on Fashion already. And it seemed like you know, in fact, I think originally Kareena was being planned for it through. I mean, those articles are there, and so it looked like seven, eight months it's been going on. I said, I thought it's completely written. He said, No, in fact, nothing is written. So, I mean, people are still discussing, so therefore, Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: you know, can you just come in? So I was like, Okay. Now, that same year I had later planned to go to South America. So I was doing Spanish classes. I had just planned my other life. Akshay: Hmm. Hmm. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So I was going for Spanish classes. So I called a Madhur and he said, Okay, can you meet me tomorrow? I said, No, sir, I'm so sorry. I have a Spanish exam. And you know, in his classic style, not missing a beat, he said "but my film is in Hindi." And then we laughed so much. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: So yeah, so I just, you know, the the day after then walked into the room, and you know, there was Madur. And so we always we have this joke that you know when I walked in, I was my angrezi memsab self, as he says, right? He Akshay: Ha ha. Anuraadha Tewari: was just Madhur. So I think initially he just felt like I was too angrezi. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: But I don't know, I think we started discussing some cinema and suddenly that love for cinema came out, you know, Ananya: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: from both of us, that inherent, deep just you know, love for the visual. And then you know, he always says that. Or even I say that suddenly the you know the Anuraadha from Gorakpur came out. You know, and she had not Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: come out for all those years, you know, because you know Jamia, so suddenly that Anurada from Gorakpur came out, and we were like really just two boys in the room enjoying cinema so much, and that was it, like you know, that's it. He said that from tomorrow I was writing Fashion. So really this is how it happened. Yeah. Ananya: Nice. Anuraadha Tewari: As somebody another friend who's corporate head honcho in Boston or Whatever, who was at that point our manager or you know, general manager. He had said something very interesting. He said, you know, and rather especially in the media, but even otherwise, your career is a complex network of people you know. And you know, that's really true. A complex network of just people who've seen you somewhere who know your work, who whatever, you know. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: Yeah, that's that's mostly how it is. Akshay: Yeah. Now, when you say that you were set to be a director and Anuraadha Tewari: Mm-hmm. Akshay: then you chose to be a full-time writer, I think for a lot of writers the journey is the opposite, right? Like they start out as full-time writers and Anuraadha Tewari: Hmm. That's right. Akshay: and in the middle of it, some somebody will really bug them and be like and they decide like I'm just going to direct myself now, I'm tired of listening to others. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: So how was that transition for you like? Were you were you apprehensive at all? Because quote unquote our industry is very director worshipy kind of an industry, you know? So Anuraadha Tewari: Yes. Mm-hmm. Akshay: What made like what made you decide that and how did you handle that? Anuraadha Tewari: So again, thank you for asking that very insightful question because you know, for anybody, even when the writer is going to be a director or the other way around for me, it is a multi-layered journey. You know, it's not just the outside, a lot inside has to shift. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: And that's Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: of course something I wasn't really conscious already for then in retrospect I totally understand. So in very short, see, I went to film school. I was at Jamia, which is an MA in filmmaking, and I majored in direction. I was the top of my class of the best director, my film won awards, and all that. And then I came here and I was the youngest director in India, and you know, all that. So Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: it's you know, there was this whole shine and vibe on it. But like I said, meanwhile, I was also writing for others. So, you know, when I wrote for Prakash Jha or or you know Subhash Ghai and you know Param Kumar and whatever, so there was a certain sense that okay, in fact, I was supposed to be debuting as a writer and associate director first with the late Sanjay Gadhvi. Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: We even started Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: the film, and unfortunately, it did not complete. There were three debuts that were gonna happen Arjun Rampal, Sanjay Gadhvi, and me. So, you know, and then you know that just didn't happen. So the thing is that one had tasted this whole thing of also working for someone else, you know. Which of course is a very different feeling from when you feel, my god, every line, you know, I'm responsible for it. So I'll be very honest, I enjoyed that little you know passing of responsibility to someone else. There was a certain Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: relief in that, there was a certain joy Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: in that and huge learning in that, you know. So, first that had Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: happened already. Then, secondly, there came a point where I was jobless, like a lot of people who become, you know, at various points Ananya: Yeah, yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: in their career. So I had just quit my really high-faluting, high-paying job at Crest Communication. I was the national creative director and I was waiting for my film to start as a director. Akshay: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: Unfortunately that was like six months went and that didn't happen. For various reasons. So now Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: one felt stumped because you know, so and and directorily at that time, unfortunately, a lot of the stuff was not great. Again, TV was being offered to me as a director, which I was thank god because I don't think I have the muscle for it at all, right? Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: So, therefore, when suddenly on a day where I said, Bro, I need to work now, I don't care how, and Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: then at 9:30, Himesh Reshamiya who doesn't even know me calls. So, when he asked, me, of course, my resistance was to say TV and all that, but just grateful that you know somebody called at the right time. And then imagine if Sony's offered you a contract for like two years Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: at a time when you've been jobless for six months, you'd be really stupid to say no. So, you know. Akshay: Yeah, yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So honestly, I think it was just sort of written or fated like that. And once I Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: got into it. Then it was just so enjoyable because more than anything else, and I totally own up to this, you know, at that time TV did not have bible writing. Akshay: okay. Ananya: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: Yeah, you know, people just call it broad story, whatever. So then you it would be I said nothing doing, I'm creating. I somehow I figured this thing Bible from somewhere. And so I said I write Bibles and I will totally be paid for it. So in that sense, started development for T V. So Akshay: Hmm. Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: you know the development part was very exciting. And that was the Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: time where as mother one said, you know, no, somebody else said that you're writing French, they're making it in Bhojpuri. So I said it's Ananya: Ha ha ha Anuraadha Tewari: okay, we'll arrive at a middle ground. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So while writing and developing, I could write the way I feel like, you know, I Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: felt like, and I could write whatever was in my head unfiltered. So that gave me a lot of freedom and joy, and no responsibility to actually set it up. Akshay: Mm. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: Yeah. Suddenly that was not my problem only. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So I think the sum total of it was: you can totally quote me on this, that I figured that the least offensive job was the writing. Akshay: Hmm, yeah, hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: You know, then least interfered and and Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: just that space between you and your laptop, of course laptops were in by then already, was so much more truthful than doing anything else. Of course I started missing the sets a lot, but still just just Ananya: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: this part was meditative, so yeah. Ananya: Yeah. I had a question based on what you just said. Because you said that, you know, there's limited interference, right? When you were writing for TV then. But now what we like, Akshay and I are web native writers, to put it that way, right? And what Anuraadha Tewari: Yes, yes. Sure, sure. Ananya: we've noticed is that because that is the part they have the most control over. Like all the platforms, Netflix, Amazon, all of them. No one comes to set every day, right? Like to check. Anuraadha Tewari: Hm. Yes. Everybody. True that, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Ananya: So have you found because you have a 30-year like cycle over here in the industry? So you've gone from TV to film to seeing what web have has evolved to now. Do you feel like the dynamics have changed from TV to web in this sense, where writing is more controlled, where they're really trying to hold your wrist and make you write to some extent? Or how do you perceive it? Okay. Anuraadha Tewari: yes and no. So, see, I mean, we all know that most of the web is essentially people from television. So, in that sense, the working protocol, the good, the bad, and the ugly, all of it just extended into the web as well. But Akshay: Yeah, he'd follow right there. Anuraadha Tewari: the spin on it is the algo and you know all the all the jargon Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: and all of that. So, I would say yes, to some degree, I think the same ethos was carried over. But having Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: said that, I think of course of Obviously I have the advantage of you know having done this for many years. So therefore you have a filmography and and Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: then it's still me. So you know. So Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: no, so the answer is that automatically do they just let you be no. but Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: can you be yes? Because you you'll have to Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: earn those spurs. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: And I I think that's how I do it because I mean I have a very simple line. I have two l so one is that a writer's room is writers in the room. You know. So Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: let the writers do the job and you know. Akshay: Mm, yeah. Ananya: Exactly. Anuraadha Tewari: And my other point is writers' room not just writers in the room. There's a process going on. So Akshay: Hm, yeah. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: yeah. Ananya: Exactly. Anuraadha Tewari: So, you know, allow me, let me write, and if it doesn't work for you, Ananya: Wow. Anuraadha Tewari: sure of course. But yeah, so I think basically what you have to do is you know, to answer a little more seriously, is that you will need to protect your work. But I think what you have to do is I really don't blame the other side as well. Crores are riding on it. Their jobs often are riding on it. What Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: is the guarantee that what I come up with after three months works? Akshay: Hmm. Ananya: Yeah, that is it. Anuraadha Tewari: Right? So by that logic, yes, of course, there's no real guarantee. But hey, the only thing you're putting your buck on me is because I have that filmography and you know all of that. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: I'm also letting you know at each step that this is what I'm doing. And large, Akshay: Mm. Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: and lastly, which is not necessarily the best part, but there are times when I start my writing class first. So, whatever, Akshay: Mm. Mm. Ananya: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: you find different ways of essentially winning the trust. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: That hey, I know my job and just allow me to do my best so that when I hand it to you, you know, it will work. of course that still doesn't stop from you know many other things happening, but at Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: least the main creative part is left undiluted. Yeah. Yeah. So Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: that's that's the answer really. Akshay: That's so true. we've also had to be in rooms first educate them about the stuff we're doing and like just conceptually Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: break it down and almost like a master class. Okay. Like this is the science behind these words we're trying to put. And then Anuraadha Tewari: You have to do master classes. Yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Yeah. Akshay: and then they're like, Okay, okay, we now get it. So yeah. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: So I'm glad that already in you know early enough in your career you're doing that because I feel that's the best way. And the others Akshay: Uh-huh, yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Exactly. Anuraadha Tewari: I'm saying, listen, there is there is the language of cinema, there is an audiovisual language, and if we are not both Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: as fluent in it. Or speaking the right dialect of it, how will we communicate? Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: So I'm saying, yeah, this is my language, this is my dialect. Now tell me, you can come back and say that I don't like anything. I'm perfectly alright with it. Because likability Akshay: Yeah, yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: is not something I ever question. I buy totally. Akshay: Mm. Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: But if you tell me change kar though, you know, then I'm like, sorry, I can go on about this this part because it's so you know Akshay: No, no, yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: personal to all of us. So the analogy I use is they're make rag create karate. Okay, it's a melody. It Akshay: Hmm, Anuraadha Tewari: is based on a rag. So the rules of writing are exactly like music according to me, right? So Akshay: Hm, yeah. Ananya: No. Anuraadha Tewari: you've chosen a particular rag, you can't mix them up then. Akshay: Huh. Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: Secondly, classical gari. No, it doesn't work unless Akshay: Well. Anuraadha Tewari: I'm creating fusion. So I'm saying tal or ragme, music. Or Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: giving me a suggestion. Listen, I think it might be a great suggestion by itself, but it won't fit into my composition. Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: It will distort my song. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So either you get my song or you say ganaini achalaga, I'm fine with But my basura nega Akshay: Mm. Yeah. Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: sati. You I will not put my name on it. So Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: yeah, that's this is like literally the stance on which I leave that. If you're forcing me to sing and play badly, sorry. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So so you know, this there's another line which is reminding me here. A lot of people ask about what is success and all of that. I always say success may not be in your hands, but you can choose not to make sure rather that your name is not on bad stuff either. Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: You know. So, burites. I think that's really all I've achieved so far. So yeah. That's what that's that's the answer there. Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Yeah, Mm-hmm. Akshay: This so okay, now you now you get the job. Now Fashion is with you. Anuraadha Tewari: Mm. Mm. Akshay: How do you go about writing it? Like what is the process like? first in the writers like first just writing with yourself and with Madhur Bhandarkar and then how does it go about it? Like did you all what was the routine like? Anuraadha Tewari: No, again, very good question because actually in that sense, see Madhur also, you know, in his working style was very much the old school style of working, which I really like, which is very much like what Subhash Ghai had also done. Which is that it was the initial writer's rooms only. You know, Akshay: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: except that of course the science of writers' room did not exist, and it's pretty much the director sort of like holding court and you know, writers sit there and all. So in that sense, when I walked into Fashion I was used to it because it wasn't alien to me. Also because one had been so lonely already in writing, you know, by yourself. Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: So I was most excited to, you know, keep going to an office and meeting people Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: and sitting for hours to just chat. Out Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: and the I mean so much gossip going on and food and drink and all of that. So that's Akshay: So Anuraadha Tewari: how it started. Now, a fashion, like I said earlier, it did have another writer, and Madur and and you know, that writer, they had sort of put some Sort of a structure together, but I think UTV and Ram Mirchandani I think they felt it would be you know, a lot different and whatever something wasn't working there. So when I walked in, I did, of course, walk in with with the respect that listen, some work has been done, so you know, I don't just want to come in and say change everything, I'm not that person, you know, ever. So I I was tentative about it, but what I did was, and of course, Madhur wanted me to do that, which is that you know, within like first half ka yeita, whatever things are there, if you went. Back home and wrote it your way. So Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: I sort of started changing things sequence by sequence, and it suddenly started emerging. You know, of course, Akshay: Hello. Anuraadha Tewari: and it was all my hunger and thirst of all those years to just express well and you know, cinema and all that. So I Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: really put in all that. So, you know, so by halfway, the film had changed in texture completely. I mean, it is pretty much the the first half of the film that exists right now. But after that, you know, you several things. I think by then maybe three months had passed or some such thing, and then you know. That happens in in in in projects sometimes. I essentially Madhur and the other writer they had a fallout, and you know, perhaps he was not comfortable with the entire change and all that, but just that you know it wasn't working at all otherwise. So we changed Akshay: Hmm, mm. Anuraadha Tewari: that and then we had a fallout. I mean, I didn't, they did, and so the other writer was not part of the project anymore. And that's when Madhu was like, you know what, let's just go write it the way we want to. So I said, Then I'm sorry, second half will change completely because it it just does not work. So then Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: we started jamming together and all that. And that's when I sort of wrote it from scratch in a way, like the story itself and then the screenplay. So I'd Akshay: Mm. Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: actually joined as additional screenplay. I walked away with story and screenplay, you So that's that's how it happened. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: So that was already about another six months had passed, or maybe five. Akshay: Hmm, hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: Then we went and narrated it to U T V. Again, typical studio execs in the room who are not there at this point. So it's fine, you know, there must be somewhere else. So so yeah, Akshay: Ha ha ha. Anuraadha Tewari: they were like, Ha, nice, but you know, this isn't working. So it was really Ronnie Screwala I mean, you that's why he is who he is. He just said, you know, guys, shut up. Everything is there, it just needs to bake up a bit when he's like, Wow, this works. Because Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: if he didn't Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: say so, we would have or maybe he just felt that project, you know, let's just Akshay: yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: Let's just go get Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: on with it. So then my friend Niranjan Iyengar came in Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: and of Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: course he did the dialogues, but also because he was closer to the fashion industry thanks to being Manish's assistant and so on and so forth. So of course he also gave me a few more of the nuggets and basically, you know, just the the dialogue gave it the texture that you Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: know may not have been there, you know, if if he hadn't written it. And Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: yeah, that's how it finally came about. And then I'll leave the cliffhanger when we narrated to Priyanka. So Ananya: Ha ha ha. Anuraadha Tewari: Freeze anybody Akshay: What was her reaction like? Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So I know that's exactly banger type. So Priyanka ka katha key, of course. I mean, you know, till today, just the I think the one person respect the most in the industry because so much clarity, so much dedication, hard work, works with her limitations, breaks past them, and just you know that hunger and dedication. Amazing. I d I still don't see anybody like that. Yeah, no wonder she is where she is, right? So, so we went to narrate it to her at film city or something, and So she was already signed with UTV. I think then it was that time aha, I think it was two thousand six, right? When the studios had just signed up all the big actors and the whole setup changed, you know, the private Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: single producers were having a bit of a problem because I think Akshay: Mm. Ananya: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: they were had they'd been pitching this to her but I mean because she said so in in quite openly so I think she was just not in the mood she was because the you know the script wasn't working the project wasn't working so but because a woman came to narrate so she said a cha okay let's be nice so I started narrating and then you know she could see that this is a totally different film and she was whatever invented and Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: I'm good with cliffhanging I said, interval taki karte, let's do the next narration tomorrow. Because you know, she was like okay. But as I was leaving itself, she had told me, you know, I I'll be honest, I was gonna say no, but look at you, just walked in and narrated this me. You know. So I was like, yes, you know, we've just saved this Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: project, so to say. And then the next day, we of course, so now of course there's a lot of relief, and you know, I think everybody slept well that day. And so the next even I felt better because you know I was narrating Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: to an actor after a while. So yeah, I went back and when we narrated. So even th this is another part of the story. So there were a lot of parts in the second half that the men on the project were very contentious about. They just said, you know. Like the part where she blakes up, wakes up with the black man and Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: you know, I did not write that. I just wrote a random man. Akshay: Ha ha ha. Anuraadha Tewari: So I will live for the rest of my life clarifying. We'll talk about that next. Yes, I I just Ananya: Thank you. Thank you for doing that. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: I get this all the time, but that's fine. So Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: so they said, Whoa, and then you know, her whole meltdown and all of that and stuff. So I had to fight the most for that sequence because I'm sorry the men just did not get it. He he you know, look whatever. I said, just it's a woman thing, let a woman. I said, Okay, let Priyanka decide. If she says she's not comfortable, fine, I'll find something else. So I go and narrate it to her. She's just so reverted, and she's just like, totally whatever. So of course I found my opportunity. I Priyanka, I'm so sorry, but I just want to know that okay, now you've heard. Even before you say yes or no, can you please tell me if this sequence works for you? And she looked at me Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: and said, I'd rather if we don't do this, I'm not doing this film. So I was like, I rest my case, Q E Akshay: Ha ha. Anuraadha Tewari: D. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So yeah, that's that's how it it just happened. Ananya: Nice. Akshay: Well played on that. that's such an Ananya: Cool. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: Mm-hmm. Akshay: interesting thing that even like an actor as smart as her, like for having input here and like which you get the confidence from, that's such a nice thing to happen. Does not happen very often. Anuraadha Tewari: absolutely. No, I'll tell you the I think the success of fashion, and of course it shocks me that it's relevant till today after so many years and seems like Ananya: yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: part of mainstream psyche. I think it has hugely to do with Priyanka herself because of the kind of hard work she put in. You know, on her wall, she, you know, called me over and we had created three graphs. One was the story graph, one was her costume look graph, and one was her body language graph. Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: And we had worked all three out and she followed it to a T, put in her own efforts. Ananya: Wow. Anuraadha Tewari: The few times that I was on this set, she would look at me, and you know, there were times when I used to say, you know, Priyanka, you're thinking about the shot, but it's showing. So she started by not thinking about it being natural, then she was thinking, then I said, and she said, You only created and you only like, you know, figured all this out. I was like, I can see. And then from there for absolute natural performance. Of course, obviously Madhur was not saying okay, do the takes where it looked like, but Akshay: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: I'm saying that's the process she went into. So it's really her dedication and hard work. She saw it as Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: the pivot of her life and it became so. Yeah. Akshay: Hmm. It became so, yeah. Ananya: Wow. Wow. Akshay: Before that I've I've read I've heard in one of her interviews saying that she was a little apprehensive because, you know, it's a woman centric part, quote unquote. And back in the day it was even bigger a deal. She was just three Anuraadha Tewari: Yes, yes, yes. Akshay: or four years into her career, like s so Anuraadha Tewari: Totally, yeah. And women centric films were not doing well at that time. They were not being made only, forget doing well, you know. So exactly, and Ananya: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: for her, and she I think she's done, whatever. It was on the sets of Drona. So she Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: was in a different zone, but like she was Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: so sweet and you know, just confessed that I was totally gonna say no, but how can I say no to this film, you know? Just you know, Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: Hm, yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: out of after narration. So yeah, that's that's how it came about. Akshay: How fantastic. When hm Ananya: Cool. I want to hark back a little bit to what you Anuraadha Tewari: Sure. Ananya: said about working with Niranjan Iyangar, right? You said that so I was watching something about Shonda Rhimes a few years ago and she was talking about her shows. And you know, Anuraadha Tewari: Mm. Huh. Ananya: in the dialogue, you know, when they're writing like Gray's Anatomy or something, they would just put the terms medical, medical or like political, political. And then when the dialogue writer would be Anuraadha Tewari: The dialogue right aha. Ananya: a subject matter expert, essentially, who would come in and Anuraadha Tewari: Red, red. Ananya: fill that in. Anuraadha Tewari: Yeah. Ananya: And it kind of sounds like Niranjan came in in a certain part and did that because he came from the world of fashion. But also if you look at the screenplay of fashion, every scene is derived from the world, right? You explore so many facets like being queer in the fashion industry, being from another city, there's so much. So how did the research process of this work? Like how how much came from the writer's room? How much did Niranjan bring? Did he bring in inputs that changed the script then because of that expertise? What was the confluence in the working relationship? Anuraadha Tewari: No, great question. So no, firstly I'm not that writer who writes just political and legal, but though you're giving me great ideas. I'm that person who Ananya: Hm, yeah. Akshay: Ha ha ha. Anuraadha Tewari: is waiting for a script so that I can go and research. I I'm basically I think I'm Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: a closet journalist, you know, so I want to research. So in that sense, no, I wasn't really waiting for another writer for the research and the world creation part. Ananya: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: Because I think that's one of my forties. I think that's what I do. I create worlds. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So no, that was already done. And no, I we did not Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: write fashion and then You know, somebody came to whatever. So, Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: in that sense, no, I don't think I needed anybody's input to change the script because hey, we'd already changed it from the original. But I Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: think what what Niranjan brought in, and I'll tell you the research part just after this. So I've done my bits and all that. No, but I think see it's different. Let's say I I'm writing a legal show like I just did last. So of course I'll go and do my research and whatever, whatever. But when a lawyer comes in, they will put in something Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: which is the textures only very different. I mean, I may get Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: the facts right, but there's a certain you know, je ne sais quoi, which is from being an insider. So I think he he Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: brought in the insider-ness through his lines. So in my Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: script, the lines are already there. So it's not like I was leaving it to whatever. But when an insider comes to write it like that, and of course he's a fantastic dialogue writer. So, Akshay: Mm. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: you know, so I think, and also more than anything else, I mean the biggest credit I would give to Naranja is that he just validated, yeah, this is all good, it's all right. And like, you know, I I I Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: stamp it like you don't have to question ki yes because Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: that's what the Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: studio execs were trying to get into. So I think he was that support. And of course, I mean the dialogues Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: are totally memorable and whatever. But yeah, that's what was brought in. But the research was my own already, yeah. Ananya: Nice. Akshay: What was what did you do to do research back in the day? Because right now research is easy, right? Like you can Google Anuraadha Tewari: Yeah. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Akshay: and hundred articles will come, hundred YouTube videos will come. Anuraadha Tewari: Correct. Yeah. Akshay: How did that happen? Did you like go to fashion shows and like what was the thing like? Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: A little. So again, yeah, I love talking about research, all my projects because those are universities by themselves. And those are what makes us so enriched as people, right? Because Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: that nobody can take that away from me. And fashion was one of the first few where I could research like that. So I'll tell you, there are a couple Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: of briefs that I give myself when I'm doing a story, you know, especially thereafter. So my first thing was that this story is about a model, it's not about the fashion business. Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: Yeah, because Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: although I I wish it were a little more, but you know, so it's not a Procedural fashion industry insight. Right? We didn't get into designers and what the hell do they do with haute cotoure Ananya: Mm. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: or whatever, all of that? It was about a models journey and therefore human journey. So I was very interested in knowing that how do models live? Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: And I had a little sense because of two anecdotes I share with you. So while I was with Anupum Kher's company, he also had a talent management agency. By the way, Maheep Sandhu was our first. you know, and Gracie Singh was Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: the next. And and it was managed by Noyanika Chatterjee, the supermodel of her time. So, Ananya: Well, yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: in that sense, we used to hang out every day, share food, and you know, exchange gossip and all of that. So I already knew, and you know, I would go to her house, right here in Lokhandwala. She happened to be, by the way, the Shomitra Chatterjee's niece, as in Satyajit Ray's Akshay: Mm. Ananya: Mm. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: Shomitra Chatterjee, that that great actor. That was her cha cha. So, you know, somebody who came from that sort of lineage and whatever, but lived such a normal, grounded, humble life. So I already had that sense. And then there's another anecdote I'm going to share because it's silly at some level, but it's not. So there was somebody I was dating much later who mentioned his ex-girlfriend, who happened to be a model, and he said, you know, another word I should really love about her. So for me that visual of this model who walked the ramp but who would go home and fatty sa Kapre Doriya and, you know, whatever, I loved that sort of Akshay: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: contrast, you know. Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: In a way, although it's a no-brainer, actually. I mean, why wouldn't everybody live the way they have to? But it just stayed with me. So Akshay: Yeah, yeah, hmm. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: I said, I want to research with models as people. I don't want to see them on a fashion show at Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: all because that is very obvious. Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Some aggressive. Anuraadha Tewari: Anyway, I directed so many events by then. So I knew what it felt like. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So I started hanging out, I started doing the underbelly, whatever. I just I'm blessed with friends of all kinds. So this again Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: I give credit to my very dear friend Rajiv Kinchi. choreographer, very well known choreographer. So who's who's behind Hritik Roshan in Ek Pal ka Jeena and all of that? And he's done many things. So he was Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: my insight into all this. You know, he started taking me to like the Oshivara Lokandwala parties and just people who I don't know. So lots of models, lots of you know, the wannabes, Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: the even the strugglers and all that. And you know, sitting there, even a lot of LGBTQ, lots of gay parties as well. So I was, of course, the fly on the wall. So that's when I started getting that sense that you know, I mean, look at the really the facade, because unlike Like films, you know, models are actually living a very different life because Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: the glam quotient is extremely high, but your shelf life is so low, and hey, you're not getting paid that much. Akshay: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: And yet you Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: have to maintain. See, unlike, you know, like a Vidya Balan can be a natural self and walk out, she's an actress, but a model cannot do that. Akshay: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: Right. So that Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: contrast I understood. And the fact that the depression I understood very, very acutely. And Akshay: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: I understood the need for them to flock together. You know, this whole we're a village thing, you know, and we really hold each other's hand. That really moved me. And I think Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: hopefully that also came through in fashion. So yeah, that was my research into the minds, into the lives, into Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: the you know. I mean, I I I had people who And Akshay: Well. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: she would have coffee all day because she really didn't want to spend so much money on food that she didn't have and it would keep her thin, you know. Akshay: Mm. Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: And then that evening, maybe somebody will find some sponsor, like just some friend who would Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: you know, feed and water you, so you know, you would make sure that seven of you went there and did. I just found that very moving. It was very amazing. So that was my research. Akshay: It it totally showed in the movie because Ananya: Yes. Akshay: there were scenes, right? Like where Megna is still a struggler. She's like, and and these these moments really Anuraadha Tewari: Huh. Huh. Ananya: Yeah. Yeah. Akshay: make the film alive because it makes Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: her character so real. And Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: that's everything in a film like this. Because you can get so carried away with the glitz and the glam, and like, we need to like Anuraadha Tewari: Yeah. Ananya: Mm. Akshay: Ace this choreography and that and stuff like that. But her character is like so real, which is really Anuraadha Tewari: and the look. Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: like takes it through. And Anuraadha Tewari: No, thank you for noticing that. But also, I Ananya: We should Anuraadha Tewari: mean, full marks to the director because that is his œuvre. And I mean, in that sense, Madhur will never say okay to a scene unless he feels its reality. You know. So in that sense, Ananya: Hm, yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: of course, he and he gets underdog better than anybody else, you know. Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: In in in terms of, you know, me you know, his kind of cinema. So yeah, Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: I think between Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: all of that and you know, even Chitrashi Rawat's character, if you remember, the coordinator, you know. Shomu! Akshay: Some Anuraadha Tewari: To meet such people like this other Barista under Sykes, you know, I think they're Ananya: Hmm. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: still there. So yeah, it's just I mean you know, also I was very grateful that I'd already lived in this area for 10 years, but it came alive for me like this, you know. Like Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Ananya: Mm. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: suddenly every table had a story, and like you know, every table gave me a character, and Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. huh. Anuraadha Tewari: just yeah, I was Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: I was seen stealing from everywhere. So yeah, it was like so yeah, that Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Anuraadha Tewari: was that was the research story. Akshay: So obviously like a film like Fashion, which can be which can scatter easily, you know, because there is so much research to incorporate, there is this and there is that. You have three main characters almost, like obviously Meghna is main, but your focus is also like Anuraadha Tewari: Yeah, yeah. Akshay: on these three models and you have characters Anuraadha Tewari: Yes. Akshay: who have these supporting lives as well. How did you manage to put that in a structure? Like what was your thought process behind that? Anuraadha Tewari: Mm. So I mean in that sense, first and foremost, you can see that fashion in that sense is a fairly classic structure. It is a classic three-act structure and it you know, it's got stuff Akshay: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: going at various levels. So in fact, even now when I teach screenwriting, thankfully I can use Fashion to, you know, illustrate how structure Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: works. So very quickly, you know, the background to it. So unfortunately writing is not really taught you know, sort of formally in in most film schools in India. It's so strange. Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: And we have to learn through film appreciation. Is great, wow, and you know, so on. Then you have to work in the industry to say, this is what I don't know. You know, Akshay: Mm-hmm. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: that's what I learned from directing that. I don't know enough storytelling. And thankfully, I discovered Robert McKee at the right time, his book called Story. And then you know, around that time I was being invited to do these writing lectures, you know, at various film schools, you know, including Xavier's or Sophia's or whatever. So I, you know, just got to be boss lady there and talk about you know, whatever. So, through all of this, through largely Robert. McKee and through whatever. What I imbibed was that see, and that's great in Western thinking. See, while in in oriental thinking, we are so good at like you know what I call samurai writing, you know, which is which Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: is how to make you know something out of organically, whatever. But Western thinking is great about structure because I think structure gives you multiple things. One is that exactly like a house, that's where my analogy comes in. Do Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: you just start putting bricks together? No, you make a blueprint, you know, and that blueprint gives you the Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So that it doesn't fall apart. And you don't just say, Are yeto lagra baniga? Which is, I'm sorry, how Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: a lot of Bollywood is still being written it. Ananya: Yeah, yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So for me, therefore, structure became the structure of my life. That without it, I feel I don't even know how people are constructing anything. So when it came to Fashion, I think, of course, like I said, I'd already been through fairly unstructured work or structure being messed with. So here was my one chance to really put it out there, put it together, and thankfully. For people to get it or at least not interfere, not question. So, in that sense, fashion structure is yeah, it's a classic, like it is in that sense a hero's journey. But because I was sure that it is, yes, also about Shonali and about Mugdha's character, I forget her name. I forget a lot of stuff by the way. Yeah, Akshay: Janet Huh. Yeah. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: so so yeah, I mean, you know, how's that so difficult? Because if you know how to put that graph, you know, I mean I can now draw it in my sleep, Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: then it is just putting different layers to it. And then again, back to my music analogy, it's like singer agi, yase ek singer agi, or yangase banega. So yeah, that's how Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: I saw it. Ananya: Nice, yeah. Akshay: Yeah, it was very crystal clear when when we wrote down the episode in fashion, the hero's journey was very crystal clear to us and Anuraadha Tewari: What I say is that I'll give it to you in writing, is that a structure never fails. You Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: know, like The great Mukesh Bhatt said, a budget never fails. He's right in his own way. But I would say a structure Ananya: Hmm. Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: never fails. But structured story can't fail. So then bet on that. At least ensure that. And I mean everything, whether Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Exactly. Anuraadha Tewari: it's a Durandar or whether, you know, whatever's working, even a Sayara with all the flaws that I feel, it's the structure holds. Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: You see, so that's it. So I mean, you know, I mean I don't know how people don't invest enough time or whatever energy into Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: it. And I really Ananya: Yeah, yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: feel that's the gap in the industry till today that various gatekeepers are not talking that language. They're not talking structure. Ananya: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: So that's why, you know, we will have these things that you're messing with my structure, either you give me a new structure or you add to my structure, you know. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: But you can't Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: mess with it. Akshay: Yeah. Yeah yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So yeah, yeah, that's that's the structure part. Akshay: Mm, mm. I think in the film, whether we talk about say Fashion or even the subsequent one which came out, which was Heroine there was such an important conversation about mental health in its own way. And what I love about it is that it it's not preachy like today. Like there was no words Anuraadha Tewari: So who Akshay: like depression involved or anxiety used. But like there was actual visual depiction of that. That there is drug abuse here, there is alcoholism involved. There is so much other ways like Loneliness comes in. and how did you go about deciding that this has to be one of the tenets you touch upon in this project? Anuraadha Tewari: So I think it was more pronounced in Heroine, and Akshay: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: I'm I really am glad you picked it up because a lot of people don't also. Akshay: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: And there's a lot of presumption that it's just an extension of Fashion, which it obviously wasn't. So I think my first start point for Heroine was that of course I knew everyone will think it's Fashion 2 So how do I make it not Fashion 2? And Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: secondly, of course, in that script I was there from scratch. So, you know, Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: it wasn't something I I had to walk into later. And I think this was what, already twenty eleven or something. Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: By which time so I think by which time mental health was a big deal around us already. I I had already in that sense personally been into therapy, you know, for my first ten years of therapy. You know, I was that I I thought I was that cool New York person in Bombay. I'm a therapist, you know. So Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: I mean therapist. Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: It wasn't like today, nah. So Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: yeah, I was I was sex Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: and the city. So so I had you know, although that wasn't at all Kind of depth that I went into much later in terms of studying and understanding, but I had a sense. So my and of course, by observation, you already see that I could see it so poignantly around, you know, I will not name some of the actresses, but I could see. So the the thing that I took from Madhur's brief is that unlike fashion and most of his other work, where an outsider comes at the beginning of a career and then enters a world, you see, that's his, you know, Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: general sort Ananya: No. Anuraadha Tewari: of format, so to say. We Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: said, let's pick up somebody on the other end of the spectrum that you know she's about Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: to fade out and then how does she deal with that one last film you know there were Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: some actresses at that time going through exact this you know Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: Yeah, trajectory, and then there were many other controversies that happened around Heroine that you know, of course, you read about. But yeah, that's what we really wanted to capture there. So now when you are capturing that, mental health will have to be your base. You know, it can't Ananya: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: not be. Because whether she of course then we didn't want her to be married already and all of that for obvious story reasons. But so if you are at that point in your career, you know, you've not married, you've not found love, you're about to fade out, you can't be okay. You know, it's it's hauntingly lonely. In Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: fact, I would say that the only thing about Heroine I feel is I wish, in fact, that it were a little more underlined because I think people just did not understand the, you know, I mean, Mahi Aurora is supposed to be bipolar in that sense, you know, she's got Akshay: Mm, mm. Anuraadha Tewari: mood disorder, she's got whatever, but I think a lot of that got a bit lost, and and also humongously ahead of its times, Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: you know, a whole 10, 12, or 14 years ahead of its time. I think today it would be that much more relevant because we would talk about it in the most natural, you know, Akshay: Me Anuraadha Tewari: way possible. And also, I'm sure you guys have seen that even the the climax of Heroine became exactly how poor Ria Chakravarti was being treated, you know, by the press. I mean, people put like these memes together. Yeah, it was almost exactly like you know, being replicated. Akshay: Mm, yeah. Hounding, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: So I think, yeah, it became very ahead of its times. Akshay: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: But for me it was very natural because that's what I was seeing, it was natural to the story and I had already Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: understood therapy by then. So you know so that's why it was very, very, very important to me to you know say it and put it out there, even if people will get it ten years later, which now they do. So Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: A lot of people revisit Heroine and then come back and say, my god, it's actually better than Fashion which I I personally believe it is, as a script and as many things. And I think Kareena was stellar in it. It's one of her best performances ever. I Akshay: Yeah, she was tellow. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: mean, she really captured that loneliness and that, you know, that slight going off and it's Akshay: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: such a subtle, such a you know, without being Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: without acting and I don't know, all the men were stellar. Although I say it very vociferously is that I did not agree with the way the film's the last shot it ended because I believe in happy endings. And Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: the whole point was that when Kareena says, you know, somebody says, Are you that Mahi Arora? And she No, I'm not. She's supposed to be relieved, she's supposed to be happy, she's detached, like I'm done. But for Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: some reason she remained very stressed and that to me changed the meaning of the entire script. So I didn't agree Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: with that at all. But Hey, I mean, you know, it's a director's choice and all Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: that. But yeah, that's that's the only part that did not sit well with me. But having said that, the the fact that we wanted to choose a heroine's endpoint career was also Madhur's brief. I mean, it's not like I had the story and I went to him. He called me, he had that, we went all Akshay: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: of us went to Goa and you know, we did Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: a writer's room there. In fact, unfortunately we lost that co writer of ours also to depression and that that always haunts me that you know yes, the late Manoj Tyagi was, you know, in fact visibly going through depression even then. So You know, a lot of that was also just into our work. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Mm. Yeah. Akshay: That's so sad. You spoke about the the aftermath of Heroine. Like, you know that one the end you were not the most crazy about? Did not happen with fashion. Like was there something on script you wrote and in fact once a movie came out you were like, maybe this choice was not exactly what I was going for. Anuraadha Tewari: No, in fact fashion of course, that's why I would say I'm lucky that it is of course my most known work, but it's also the most unfiltered, undiluted work. And I would Akshay: Hmm, mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: give credit, of Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: course, is to Madur himself because he's Akshay: Well Anuraadha Tewari: the director and he has to take it on and all of that. To Priyanka because Akshay: Well Anuraadha Tewari: she put in that kind of whatever and said, Don't worry, you know, like all of what is written will translate and I will do. But also Ananya: Hello. Anuraadha Tewari: to the team at UTV, whether it was Ronnie Screwala, Ram Mirchandani, you know, various other people, that team Said no, we will translate it the way you know it's meant Akshay: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: to. So they really were producers. They produced a script that was given to them. Akshay: Hm. Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: They did not say cut karo and you know, you know, like sorry as an aside, I tell a few producers that see the credit is not money saved by, the credit is produced by. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Mm. I love it. Anuraadha Tewari: So no, they did that. So I would say therefore no, there is not one single shot in fashion which I feel didn't work. Ananya: Hm. Akshay: That's amazing. So now the film comes out and gets like a rave response essentially, right? How did you process that? Because it's it's different, right? And now now when you put out in that put that out into the world, you're almost a little bit like overcautious, like how will it do, how will it not do? And now when it does so well. How did you process that? Anuraadha Tewari: So honestly I didn't have that anxiety that you're talking about. I'll tell you why. Ananya: Okay. Akshay: Okay. That's Anuraadha Tewari: Because see, it was at a time and I had nothing to lose. Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: I told myself life classes, I actually told myself that Akshay: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: all my life I've been a topper, but backbencher. So this was my opportunity to just give it my best self-expression. You just put me blazing. So Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: I was, and I think everybody received it like that, and all of that. Okay. And then now, of course, the film is made, and like I said, everybody supported it. You know, the designers who came on, those Rita Dodi was styling, and so UTV really put their best. foot forward and said we will hold it up the way it's meant to. And of course Kangana, we're not even talking about her. She was beyond brilliant. I mean, know, she was in fact Akshay: Hm, yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: my author back role. That was a role written for her. Akshay: Hmm. Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: honestly initially Priyanka I wasn't sure I thought Kareena should do it. But I of course it completely changed my mind while working with her. But Kangana was like and most people had not actually seen her earlier work. So they said yeah whatever. I went and narrated to Kangana in 30 seconds she said yes because I narrated that walking scene to her. Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: She just got it and I knew she would get it, right? So Akshay: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: she also said, I am this person. So I said, Yeah, it's like I said, I know. Akshay: Ha ha ha. Ananya: Ha ha ha Anuraadha Tewari: So yeah. So, you know, all of that happened. So Ananya: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: so now once the film was made and like I said, there was already all that kind of support, now we had a preview. Let me give you some some names. It was so much fun because they also own up to it. So I think it was at Yashraj or wherever we had a preview, they call it a trial, so it felt like a trial. And opposite at Film City, which are one of the places, and there was of course most of the industry there. So apparently, I mean I didn't see it, so apparently Hritik took Priyanka aside and my friend Anurag Basu, very dear to me, he also looked at me or he told Ram Mirchandani, I forget, but anyway, it reached me, is that they said this film won't work, you know, your heroine is morally wrong. She slept with three men on screen, she's whatever, and you know, the African person. Not my writing, I can show you guys it. You know. But I mean nobody was picking on that by the way. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: But anyway, that was their issue. So they said, you know, I think Hritik said similar things to Priyanka. Obviously out of concern. I mean nobody was being critical or being judgmental. They just felt the Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: but it's one day before release. So she came, she took me aside, Priyanka. She said, You know, what you think? Because you know, whatever. Obviously, it was the biggest gamble of her career. But I still remember I had this, I don't know, it must be arrogance only or whatever. I just had a knowing. I just said, Priyanka, all I can tell you that you know we have a very forgiving audience, even now Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: I say it. We anyway don't look at stuff strung together. Okay. We Akshay: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: look at those five things which are our takeaways. Okay. So I said, I'll guarantee you two things. It's woven together. It's not a sporadic whatever structure. And secondly, takeaways are 15-20 in this film. Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: So I think don't it'll get thrashed. Akshay: Huh. Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: This is what I told her. So she said, okay, you got a lot of confidence. I said, yeah, I mean, you know, I of course I have experience by Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: then already of 10 years. I said yeah. So I felt ki I think I say it it will be noticed, it will be Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: whatever, because it's you know, all the energy is right. And yeah, that's what happened, that the takeaways became the Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: stuff we got memes and reels from. Yeah, but actually Ananya: Hmm. Exactly. Akshay: It's amazing. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: I'm shocked most and and genuinely pleasantly surprised about its longevity. Akshay: Mm. Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: Yeah, I knew, of course, so by then when it released, it did amazingly well and all the awards and this, that, and all that. And that was I was okay with that. Akshay: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: But I didn't expect it to live this long. You Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: know, it's Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: it's almost what 18 years and Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: yeah, eighteen, nineteen years, gonna be twenty years soon. But it it Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: really feels like yesterday. And and it's really thanks to social media and a whole generation. I know of generations of filmmakers and writers who said I have my fashion. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: Or women. I mean I get it from women all the time. That women Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: of all generations have it's like, yeah, like they say it's become their go to film. I didn't expect that at all. Ananya: Hm, yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: And of course Fashion ka Jalwa is still the staple diet of all you know, fashion shows. Especially the Mummy Papa ones, you know. Like the gharelu fashion shows have no other song but Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: Fashion Kajalva. And I find that so cute and you know and yeah, I I'm just I'm amazed that it doesn't feel dated either, you But my moment of glory, I would call it, was that was two years ago, 2024. On my birthday. So I travel a lot on my birthday. So I was in Vegas and I was just walking around, you know, alone on the promenade. And so there was first this very young boy trying to sell me some cosmetics is acting very smart. And I kid, I could be your grandma. You know, Akshay: Ha ha ha ha. Anuraadha Tewari: so he's like, Okay, so I said, Go get your senior. So, you know, so he immediately got his boss, who was I think around my age or maybe younger, a Hispanic woman. So we started chatting and all, and she said something about liking India, and she said Priyanka Chopra Jonas. So I said, by the way, I wrote and that she's watched Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: most of her films, like the Hindi Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: ones. I said, Really? I said, so. By the way, Fashion, she's like, What no way? So I you know showed her Wikipedia just because I had time. So then by the way, Mexico comes in, she dials her sister in Mexico, she was Mexican, and they spoke a lot in Spanish, and you know, she kept kept saying fashion, fashion, whatever. And then Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: that woman is quoting dialogues in Spanish from fashion. I was like, Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: my god, I'm actually famous. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: That was a clincher. That was like, Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Wow. Anuraadha Tewari: my god, it's got Multicultural context. Akshay: Yeah. It is a universal story. Like we've spoken about Anuraadha Tewari: Yeah, yeah, that's what that's what. Ananya: Yeah, just Akshay: it on our podcast also. Like more specific a story is, it becomes universal. Like Ananya: The more universe had. Anuraadha Tewari: True that. That's true, Akshay: yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: yeah. It's extremely well said. So yeah, but you know, imagine and and I mean again, in some ways it's a no brainer because I think most of the third world resonates with our stories. Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: because we Ananya: No. Anuraadha Tewari: all have third world stories. Our ethos is similar. Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So so yeah, so that was my but that was a great moment. And Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: apparently the first royalty we're all going to receive for Fashion is from Chile. So it is yeah Ananya: Ooh. Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: so we've done well in like the you know in the Hispanic world. So yeah that's it is right Akshay: Yeah, SRAI is really like doing the a very good job in reaching reaching out to these countries. Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: Yes, that's amazing. Of course, if we had actually received royalties, all of us, I could have retired just on Fashion and never needed to work again. But no, that doesn't seem to happen just yet. yeah, I Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: Twenty years later, you're we are almost Anuraadha Tewari: know. Twenty years later Ananya: Ha ha ha. Anuraadha Tewari: at least some as they say, harkat hui. So Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Ha ha ha. Anuraadha Tewari: it's okay, gratitude for that itself. Akshay: I think once we've written a a project, you realize this was something different in my way of writing in my process, or something you realize that this I had never done before. or Anuraadha Tewari: Mm. Akshay: maybe I will not do this anymore because I did it on the previous project. So, Anuraadha Tewari: Mm-hmm. Akshay: like there's some kind of learnings I think all of us get on each project that Anuraadha Tewari: I think Akshay: Yeho ho gaya is pe once you finished writing fashion and the film came out, what did you discover about your own craft? Anuraadha Tewari: So lovely. So actually, first part can answer for botsarial projects. Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: But fashion, particularly, like I said, you know, I was coming in from a certain, I would say maybe rage in a way. you know, I've not been allowed to express myself, and here it is like take it! You know, it's almost like here! I Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: mean, to paper Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: I was doing, and the other was of course. Then I felt you know all the studying that I did post coming to the industry, Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: which is your Robert McKee, which is actually by teaching others and all that, Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: I was able to put it all together. Right. So I felt obviously very good. Thirdly, of course, I felt like I'm not a half bad writer, ya know? Akshay: Mm, yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: once you allow me, then you know I mean 30 years later I'm still constantly saying allow me. So you know, I was allowed. So Akshay: Hmm. Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: I think that's that's the one thing that happened. So no, I think with fashion there were no no's that I came away with. I came back with a lot of yeses that yes. Akshay: Hmm. Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: So, firstly, I think what concretized for me is that yes, I am very excited about doing stories for women and by women, you know. I want to be that voice of my generation, as they say in Girls, in which I bring the female experience to the screen. Akshay: Mm. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So, exactly like you said, she's not chasing a man who you know she's not a rape victim looking for revenge and Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: I mean those are all important topics and great films but that's not what I am doing necessarily. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: I'm putting the female experience on screen so therefore how they think, how we think, how we feel, but also and quite consciously so also the urban woman on screen. Akshay: Hmm. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: Because again, we really only look at like the small town and the village because T V does a great job of that. So where are we? You know. Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So I consciously so fashion gave me that strength to talk about you know, urban women, the female experience and the fact that As Tanuja, in fact, said very beautifully once that, you know, the fact that our interiors are not all petals and whatever, you know, as men would like to believe. No, Akshay: Hmm. Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: we have our interiority is way more complex. So that interiority, I was very confident that I want to put out there. And Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: and also extremely important to continuously talk about female friendships. Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: Yes, because because I've lived that I've been through girls' school and girls college, all my friendships today, my safety net is the women. I even run many groups right now called Chicas, which are you know, it's all about women friendships. I feel like that's such a such a Akshay: Nice. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: big such a big privilege and such a big foundation. Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: So I want to talk about that and I I so yeah, so I came up with fashion saying hey look, this works commercially too! Akshay: Yeah, yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: And it it's it's not niche anymore and it's not Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: so yeah, I think the The sort of not last, but the most important part was also that fashion gave me the wings to say that even if it's multi-led, evolved, multi-structured, all of that, I can make it accessible, Akshay: Hm. Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: I can make it commercial, just allow me. You know, this Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: is not niche and artsy, so just allow me. So yeah, I I came Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: away with a lot of yeses. Akshay: Amazing. Amazing. And Ananya: Well Akshay: you it's interesting you mentioned Girls. Is Anuraadha Tewari: Hmm. Akshay: again like I think girls is having a resurgence now where where where like Anuraadha Tewari: Ha actually, right? Yeah. Akshay: in twenty thirteen and eleven it was like, these women are horrible, they're so selfish and they're so morally compromised. But Anuraadha Tewari: Huh. Akshay: today Marni is again like the voice of the generation because she is so focused on I want to do this and Marni and Anuraadha Tewari: Huh. Akshay: Hannah become almost like these symbols today. So Anuraadha Tewari: Yeah, but I think everybody was just ten years ahead of their times, you know. Akshay: Ja. Anuraadha Tewari: They were Gen Z but coming at millennial times or whatever. And then Adam Driver helps so having him really helps so. But yes, I think Ananya: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Akshay: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: the resurgence, you're so right, is because a lot of the content was ahead of time, so it has a resonance with a much later generation. We are one of the few industries in the business of immortality, I call it. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: You know, once you are on screen as an actor, you'll be there forever. If your work has done well, you will be part of the next hundred years of cinema. You know, at least Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: one work of yours will be, right? Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: So then make that happen, do it like that. Akshay: Mm. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: You know, why Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: are we, you know, killing ourselves, Ananya: Break Anuraadha Tewari: getting diabetes, lip disk, and anxiety and depression is the common problem with all of it. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Exactly. Anuraadha Tewari: You know, it has to be worth something. And it's not Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: just that holiday and that home. No, it is really this. Akshay: Yeah. I think I'm gonna ask one last thing. You spoke about going and briefing Kangana, right? Anuraadha Tewari: G. Akshay: And I think one of the most daunting and scariest parts of being a writer, which is that you have to go and narrate now to this actor, you know? At how was that what was that like? Because you said you narrated a specific scene, not the full thing. So Anuraadha Tewari: I mean she She didn't wait to hear only. Although I could have narrated the full thing. Akshay: Okay. Yeah. Huh. Ananya: Ha ha ha. Anuraadha Tewari: So I would say I didn't start out as a writer, even though I started writing when I was six years old. So in that sense, I was a writer, but then I trained as a director. So I think personality-wise directors, Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: also we've Ananya: Hm mm Anuraadha Tewari: done a lot of theatre. I've acted a lot on stage and Akshay: Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: in all our Jamia films. And by the Mano Jajpay was our dramatics teacher at college. Akshay: Hm, Anuraadha Tewari: Yes, and and so on and so forth. So very stellar teachers we've had. So what happens is that for me actually I'm far more excited Akshay: huh. Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: about narration. Akshay: Some Jengenki ha Anuraadha Tewari: So I love narrating because then you know you can put in some anecdotes there or whatever, and it's an energy transfer. Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: Hmm. Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: So I'm always excited about narration. People know, I mean, even Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: I think even at a party, my stories feel like a narration, you know. Akshay: Hm, Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: what my life or story is like a narration that is Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: not normal. So narration I can do in my sleep. So therefore once you've narrated a lot, you also get a sense of how much to say, when to say, what's the impact. Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: So with Kangana, who was at a particular time in her career, she just started out. But I knew she was blazing talent, I could see. Woh Lamhe and what was that-- Gangster. Akshay: Gangster. Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: But Woh Lamhe more because it was about mental health. She was playing Parveen Babi. So I knew that she got every nuance of it. Akshay: Mm. Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: You know, she I, you know, up liko na liko direct, kore na kare, wo e micro expression. Because Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: she gets it, you know. Maybe she experienced it, I don't know, but she gets it. So with her, I felt as it is, she was at a point in her career where she was still looking for the next big thing. Then I'm narrating a character to her, which she's already done and whatever. So I just knew I said, okay, we have a girl Ananya: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: bonding which happened in 30 seconds. Then I narrated this to her. I just said, you know, yeah, maybe she asked me that question, I forget. But I said, your most defining scene or shot is this, Kangana, that you know, you're backstage, you are so screwed up. But when you walk, you know, you Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: And she just said, I got that. And you know, I could see that flip in her. And then she just, you know, Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: maybe she walked, whatever. So that's it. Then she said, I said, Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: yeah, defining scene. So the whole story is about this girl who knows who's living this life. That no matter how fucked up she is, she can walk Akshay: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: and she owns Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: and whatever. And she just in fact, at that time, I think we still didn't have the end. Akshay: Okay. Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: We struggled with the end a lot Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: and we just didn't get it till there was a real life incident where there was this, Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: you know, the model who was found on the roads and when I saw that I said, you know, of course, as writers we can be that insensitive that you see somethng sad happen Ananya: I know. Anuraadha Tewari: and you'll think about the story there instead of feeling bad for that situation. Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So that's what it Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: was on TV, I looked at Madhur and said Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: this is the end and he's like, yeah and then you know, it just happened. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So yeah, I mean Kangina was on already by then. But yeah. That's how it happened. She just got the she Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: got the energy in my Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: voice in the narration. Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: That's such a great tip, right? Like key you go to this actor and like you can spend hours and hours chatting with them, but if you give them that one specific scene, which is the highlight, I I think like it's such a great way to like just grab attention, you know, and get interest. I love that. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: Yeah, it is that no Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: In fact, the just to further this tip, you know, especially for writers because I know a lot of writers feel shy of narration or Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: you know, just expressing or whatever. And if you don't want to do a Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: two hour three hour one, see the thing is how do actors think? That is their craft. They Akshay: Hmm. Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: are only imagining what they'll look like on a screen. So Akshay: Mm. Ananya: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: you can have the most brilliant you know, film and structure. If they don't see that, they will feel maza nahi aaya, you know. So Akshay: Huh. Anuraadha Tewari: you have to give Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: them that. That's what I meant with Priyanka also, those 15-20 takeaways. Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Akshay: Hm. Anuraadha Tewari: So, so that's what. So, yeah, I think if you can just put that to them, then the rest, of course, the you know, the the more detailed Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: actors will look at the rest, the others will be you know. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So so yeah, so I mean to rephrase this, what I say is I'm sorry I'm gonna use that term, but I always ask people what is the cinema orgasm you're looking for that you think the audience will have. Akshay: Hmm. Mm. Ananya: Hmm, yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So that's what the actors also looking the audience has you Ananya: Right. Anuraadha Tewari: know. So it's it's this awareness I think. I mean, I in fact I asked the directors I work with. I Ananya: Mm-hmm. Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: mean, even with something like a Lakhon Mein Ek season two, you know, I mean you had very, very lovely team. There was Biswa Kalyan Rath who's the creator. So that's what Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: I asked. I said, what is your cinema orgasm in this? So he just looked at me blankly. Akshay: Hmm. Yeah. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: I said, No, what do you want the audience to orgasm over? Then that's the sur and taal, you know, Akshay: Yeah. Yeah. Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: That's the texture with which I'll come in. Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: If you crack what is the cinema orgasm that Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: the director and the actor or either or is looking for, you will land 99% of the time. Akshay: Yeah. Ananya: Hmm. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: This feels like this. Akshay: I love that. I love that because I feel like more and more people are become even though cinema aware, but cinema illiterate. I feel like that's really happening. I th Yeah, I feel that's really Anuraadha Tewari: yeah, that's so well put. Absolutely. I'm gonna steal this and say it. Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: happening because nobody's understanding the grandness of cinema. You know, like the what it can leave you with. Like that feeling is forever, you know. Once you see a movie and Anuraadha Tewari: Seriously. Absolutely. Ananya: Mm. Akshay: it has done some magic to you, that is like irreversible. So so yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: Completely amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean you're so right that you know there's so much awareness and so much illiteracy. So Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: really so I would just I mean cap it from my end to say that yes, I am I call myself a cinema activist because I'm very interested in cinema literacy for general public. So wherever possible I'm willing to teach, to share, to whatever that's what I do. Yeah, I mean I have multiple groups. I have one group on Facebook called Merawala Review, that's Akshay: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: what it does, you know, and so on and so forth. Forth, Akshay: Mm-hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: but I would say why exactly what you're saying, why is cinema so or storytelling so important to us? Because primarily because I understood. that story is a healing tool. I hope it keeps reaching more people and lives forever. Akshay: Yeah, totally. Ananya: Yes, absolutely. Akshay: go on a now. Ananya: I just wanted to dive into this because Anuraadha Tewari: Mm. Ananya: you said story as a healing tool, right? And Anuraadha Tewari: Simple. Ananya: of course we use it b when we watch cinema, we feel seen. Things that we don't have the vocabulary for is now given vocabulary for, or things we are too ashamed of saying or admitting are now admitted and helps, hence normalized, right? So you find relatability, you darker parts of yourself there. So that helps you as a viewer, right? As an audience. And I don't have the words for this because I'm not a therapist, but you would. So, how can writers use writing as a healing tool? Like what is the process? How can they if you have to give them three steps to look at it, this will help you heal. So, how do you go about that? Anuraadha Tewari: When I say story as a healing tool, of course, firstly it healed me. And also see, as Carl Jung himself Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: said, that all healers are injured healers. We are all first healing ourselves. So everything is a device to heal yourself only. Ananya: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So I would say that actually every project can be healing. So Ananya: Mm. Anuraadha Tewari: every project to me has been healing. Even when we wrote something like Jail which was immediately after fashion, between Fashion and Heroine, we wrote jail, which is a totally Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: different space. We actually went to you know various jails, stood inside barracks and you know, you know, that kind of life research of some other level, you know. And again spoke about haunting loneliness. The only thing common between all three, I you know. feeling aged, feeling lonely and having a self-discovery. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So I would think story writing as a healing tool is in fact the most healing tools of tools because in all therapy, firstly, people ask you to journal, right? So Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: What is journaling? Journaling is one is because it's with hands, so there's a whole neurology there. Also, when you put Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: it out there, it's outside of you. So you know, you Ananya: Today. Anuraadha Tewari: also distanced from it, so you're also seeing the whole thing outside of you. So that's just journaling. But when you're writing, when you put a bit of yourself there, I think it's healing when firstly I mean again, what I'm saying is a no brainer. When in your story it reaches the end, you would have wished for yourself. Ananya: Yeah. Akshay: Mm. Ananya: Exactly. Exactly that. Yeah. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: I I think that is the most beautiful healing that happens, and I do that multiple times, you know, and all the time. So you, you Ananya: Exactly. Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: know, so so therefore, then what happens is there is a part of you in the story. Obviously, all my heroines Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: and even heroes sometimes have some parts of me which I, you know, felt so it feels Ananya: Course. Anuraadha Tewari: felt, therefore. And like I said, when you get like the desired ending that you may not have had. So you know, Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: it's like being in a multiverse and you know, where this may have been true. So, you Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: know, that's how it heals you. And third, which is my absolute favorite and you know, guilty whatever, is that whenever I don't like somebody, those appear in my scripts, all my villains and Ananya: Divine. Yes. Anuraadha Tewari: not even villains, the sidey characters have those names. So so yeah, that's how I think it's healing. That, you know, you just put yourself there and then also, you know, when when a great actor is doing you know, in a way. Become your alter ego. And then you Ananya: Hmm. Anuraadha Tewari: know they also understand they've you know emoted it like that, and like I said, they have a better you know ending. So it's it's very gratifying, yeah, because someone very beautiful like that was playing you in something. Ananya: Yeah. Yeah. Akshay: So yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: So it's really, I think it's basically a multiverse with alternate ending. That's Akshay: So Anuraadha Tewari: how you heal yourself. Ananya: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: And but then if it also matches somebody's cinema orgasm, then voila, we have a hit. That's Ananya: Yeah, absolutely. Akshay: Yeah. Anuraadha Tewari: my formula. Yeah. Ananya: Perfect. Akshay: for coming onto the pod. This was a great, great conversation. Ananya: Thank you so much for coming on this episode. Anuraadha Tewari: so much Thank you for having me over. And again, officially stating all the best to you. keep up the really good work you're doing and hey, keep creating this village where writers hang with each other. I'm so happy to have done this. Ananya: Thank you. Akshay: Yeah, yeah.