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What the Royal Heck Are Harry and Meghan Thinking? · Boomer Has It!

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: When they left the UK six years ago, the press labeled it Megzit.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Now Harry and Megan are coming back.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Harry has complained about his family, his security arrangements, and the intrusive tabloid press, which he recently sued and lost uh to the tune of millions in court costs.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Ouch.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Ouch.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: The press are sharpening their knives.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Why would the non-working royals and their two kids suffer these slings and arrows?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm JB Miller in London.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Jim Jelamis in Brooklyn.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And this is Boomer Has It.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, Jim, this is a huge story here in the UK.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a story in the States?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Are people talking about it over there?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Judging but by what I see in the checkout lines at the grocery store, I would say yes.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: But I full disclosure for our audience, as everyone knows, if you've been listening up till now, I'm ignorant about the royal family.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm going to play the ugly American in this discussion and let JB fill in the blanks with his expertise.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're hardly, hardly an ugly American, but you are American.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: We'll give you that.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, what's the time?
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: You you put together a pretty good timeline of the of the uh of the Meg Zit, right?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and I think if we walk through the timeline, it'll tell this whole story uh because it's complicated, it has many different factors, it involves a lot of money and a lot of heartache.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: But from what I can tell, in early 2020, Harry and Megan stepped down as working royals, and the press, loving to make nicknames, called it Megsit.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, they relinquished their HRH titles, public funding, and they reloaded relocated to California.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it was their goal to establish financial independence.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: What is an HRH title, by the way?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: His Royal or Her Royal Highness, his Royal Highness.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: They couldn't be uh deferred to that, those are deferential titles uh reserved for working working royals.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't lose, they didn't lose their royal status because they're both they're the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, unlike his uncle, uh Andrew, who lost his all of his royal titles, they haven't lost their titles, but uh they've lost the this honorific HRH, which means something.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I have another question.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: It will help me, and it will help a segment of this audience.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: When we say the Sussexes, is that their last names?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um in fact, let me ask you this how does Harry sign a check?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: What how does he sign his passport?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Is it Harry Sussex?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think it's Harry Windsor.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's that's how he addresses uh when he signs his letters to me.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: He always says, Much love, Harry, Harry Windsor.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Fondly, always yours, my dearest Miller.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yours forever, Harry.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Harry Windsor.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think that's their last name.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Got it.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if they have a checkbook or not.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think they've been bouncing checks all over Hollywood.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: So continue with the timeline, please, Mr.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Giovanni.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, right, so it's uh in March of 2021, without you know w wasting too much time, they landed an interview with Oprah Winfrey, and it was the first major media move into the US, generated global headlines.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in which partly because um the the couple made explosive allegations regarding racism and lack of mental health support within the royal family.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um yes, that's quite revealing.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I mean that they they there was quite a lot of consternation here, and worse was yet to come that they would speak to, they would do have an interview like that.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, his mother did this.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Princess Diana was interviewed by uh by the BBC.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: She was just as confessional uh as her younger son.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um her older son, William, the Prince of Wales, is um a working royal, he's the heir to the throne.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he doesn't speak to the press, and that's considered really bad form.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: There's a mantra, there's a royal mantra, never complain, never explain.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: He did both uh with the emphasis on complain.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, he's been complaining consistently.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what yeah.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's another element to this too.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's that you know, Oprah Winfrey ended the 20 its 25 season run, you know, the Oprah Winfrey show in 2011.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: So 11 years later, they emerge on a soundstage with Oprah Winfrey.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, the media planning behind this it must have been huge between Oprah's own network, um, then you know, the the network itself, which was CBS, I believe.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what a get.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is the ultimate.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: And what a get.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: What a get.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: They set foot in California.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oprah's gonna want that interview.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone would want that interview.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she's the celebrity interview, and they knew it'd be pretty softball.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: That'd be a pretty empathetic um interview, you know.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: They they were not particularly challenged, um, from what I saw of that interview.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: But um good on her.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Kudos to Oprah.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Are you saying that she no longer had a show and that was like a one-off?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I haven't followed.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: She does what she does one-offs, she and she gets paid for them, and she owns them because she has um Harpo Productions, Harpo Productions.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and she has a network called OWN.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's sort of on the nose, isn't it?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um you know you're doing well, and you have your own TV network.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's uh it's her it's her own media empire.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, it also it also you know does a lot of things, you know.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: H featuring them on live television makes live television, uh, network television relevant again.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, after you know, we've we're depending on the Oscars and uh the NFL to keep it relevant.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Here we have Oprah coming in.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then it it could not have set up the royal couple or the unroyal or disloyal royal couple, non-working royal.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: Non-working royal, indigent royal couple.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: It couldn't have set them up better for um two big ticket, no, three big ticket media deals uh in the ensuing year from 2021 to 2022.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, they signed multi-million dollar production contracts with three media media giants: Netflix, Spotify, and Penguin Random House, widely reported at a total of 150 million bucks.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, what do you say to that, Miller?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: This well, this is cumulative of all those deals.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: I've read different figures.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it was, I don't quite know what the figures were.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: I uh he got a 20 million dollar advance for his book spare, which became the fastest selling nonfiction book in publishing history.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and and I assume uh he he um paid out, earned out that that advance.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So he made probably made royalties on top of it.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I heard there was a hundred million dollar deal with Netflix and the big deal with Spotify, but uh let's just go back to the book deal.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh uh now I see quoted 35 to 40.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but tell us about the title.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: There's there's some irony in the title of this book, and I'll repeat it.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: The title of the book, modestly, spartanly, is the word spare.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: What does that mean?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the it's the it's the old it's the old um uh the old adage that um a royal or a aristocrat produces an heir and a spare.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Traditionally, that was a male heir and a male spare.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's changed now in the royal family because uh um women can uh can uh become uh the heir if there's uh if there are not any.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, the women are in the running, but anyway, traditionally it was an heir and a spare.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um Princess Diana did her good work, she produced two boys, and the older one, William, was always going to become the heir to the throne.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the spare was in case something happened to William.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: If he got uh killed in a skiing accident or was run over by a royal carriage, or um, you know, part of uh some masonry from Balmoral fell on him and killed him.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Those uh palaces may need to be uh um maintained.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: So he was the spare.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: That title is a bit um, it's a bit it's a bit uh uh complaining.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bit um, you know, poor me, I'm merely the spare.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's consistent with his sense of aggrievement, uh, public aggrievement, uh, with uh the contents of the book and the and the interview with Oprah Winfrey.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't watch the Netflix series, uh which I assume you didn't watch it either, all about him, poor little me.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's go back to the Netflix series.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that estimate that payday was around a hundred million bucks.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: It was a multi-year deal, and it was not a series, JB, a docuseries, my friend.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um fairly new uh Argo in uh broadcasting terminology.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: I thought um, but it was supposed to thank you, it was supposed to cover many things a documentary, a docuseries, a feature film, scripted shows, and children's programming.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the I guess the docuseries, Harry and Meghan, that was 2022, was a record breaker.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe Netflix got its money's worth.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Certainly, certainly Harry and Meghan did.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I wonder about that.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, I'd read that it was a successful launch of that, although Netflix is quite um uh closed-mouthed about their, you know, they don't release um numbers except when they want to.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like they they're right, it's like publishing.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's difficult, but so maybe they did well on that, but I don't know what they were thinking about children's programming, a feature film.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: What would that be?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: You have people playing them?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, I I don't quite understand what they thought they would.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe a six episode is a six-episode doc you series would would um earn out a hundred million dollar uh uh uh advance or whatever.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't quite understand the financial side of it, but from the Netflix point of view, this might just be simply a matter of it was worth a hundred million dollars to them just to have those names kind of on their on their books.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but I think also when Harry and Megan arrived in America in California, they were the golden couple, and um they were you know the get.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oprah got them, and I guess Netflix got them, and um uh but and you know, when random what is it, random house penguin penguin?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Penguin random house that's an imprint of Simon and Schuster, we should say.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I think they did, I think they did probably best out of uh the deal because that book really sold.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but um once the thing is it's hard to go back to that trough.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the expression?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Once you've talked about, I mean, it's quite a big book.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't read it, I read excerpts of it.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, once you've produced the confessional, talked, had the interview, released the series, I think everyone realized there was nothing else to say.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: That was it.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And they were not that interesting beyond that.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: They were only interesting uh insofar as their story of agreement uh with the added um spiciness of um alleged racism.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there was and uh, you know, there was a lot that was um quite interesting to an American and world public initially.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: After that, uh, I think it was all downhill, right?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um, I mean, just to focus more on the media deals, it the spare spared no criticism of the royal family, and neither did the docuseries.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: They were they went whole hog on uh making hay of their displeasure with their the royal family.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and it was it was very successful.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um unfortunately, it wasn't as successful for Spotify.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: This brings us to June of 23.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: They had a pretty lucrative partnership, which ended.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um pathetically, in a way, they they had made a deal for a podcast series featuring Megan called Archetype.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and she it was a 12 podcast deal, 12-episode deal.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Boomer has it listeners.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: We're up to episode 22, so just feel like with our dedication.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that was a pun, by the way.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Archetypes.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: You could pronounce it archetypes.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's the name of one of their children, is Archie.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that was a pun on their children's name.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Possibly.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, anyway, it that's what makes it it was bad blood with Spotify.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: The head of um programming or the head of podcast innovation um called them grifters because they welched on the some of the promises in their contract, and then there's some really ridiculous dirt about um meetings between this head of podcasting uh Bill Simmons and um Harry trying to think up ideas of things he could do.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: One of them was he proposed interviewing controversial figures like Putin or Donald Trump to talk to them about childhood trauma.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, could you could you think of anyone less less willing to talk about childhood trauma?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: What would Donald what would Trump say about his trauma?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I um I I had a car, my father bought me a car, and there were there was a rust mark on it, it was a Cadillac.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: But but even uh even on top of that, the idea of Prince Harry interviewing anyone about about a subject that wasn't him.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he he's used to being interviewed, he has no self-awareness whatsoever, and he has no sense of of marketing or anything uh either, really.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: One of the proposals he made for a Netflix series was uh this was reported.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I'm not making this up, but I can't vouch for it.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: But this was publicly reported.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: He suggested um that a camera crew follow him around the United States where he would try different chocolates in different locations.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it was hot chocolate or chocolate bars, but it was Prince Harry dries out U.S.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: chocolate.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: This is really a failure of imagination.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm trying to make figure out what Vladimir Putin's childhood trauma would be.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: When I was boy, I executed friend.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Wish I didn't do that.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, like what the hell?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then this the the other sad part about it is I think is um Harry had 10 years in the military and he funded and he supported an an interesting um charity called Invictus, which means unconquerable in Latin or something, something equivalent based on a famous poem.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: And it helps helps injured or uh injured vets um adapt.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's been a very successful, it's been a very successful uh series.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: So when you have that kind of background, there are not a lot of people who can say they've had 10 years in the military.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I I know it's there were snarky comments from all quarters about how effective he was.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, he flew an Apache, he flew an Apache helicopter.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: He must yeah, he must have some talent.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Why why couldn't you why couldn't you do come up with an idea about the military?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well he yes, he he had two tours of duty uh in Afghanistan.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go back to the Invictus game.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think the Invictus games might be the best thing he's ever done.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Kudos to him for doing that.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is a this is a it's like an uh I think part of the Invictus charity are these games, the sports uh contests with uh soldiers who are amputees, who are in wheelchairs, they play basketball and they do sports.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen video of this, you know, that's that's a brilliant thing.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and he deserves to be congratulated for that.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he has been very involved in that charity.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's the Invictus Games are happening next summer in the UK.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: That was one of the reasons, supposedly want to come over.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: He so the, you know, so good on him for that.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he's otherwise he's he's much too self-involved for my liking.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: But the Invictus games, the Invictus charity, you know, good on him.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would agree.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: I would agree.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: I like I said, failure of imagination and trying to come up with Spotify ideas, audio ideas about, you know, what let's talk about the military.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and also it shouldn't be just on them to come up with the ideas.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's Spotify who hired them, who paid them, uh, you know, and and you know, Netflix.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Where where is the program?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Where's the programming director at Netflix and Spotify who didn't come up with some good ideas themselves?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think um it could be that they disappointed in person, you know, they were not um, they're very photogenic.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'll give them that.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I don't know.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'll get some pushback on this, but I don't know how bright they are.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's no reason why either of them should be bright.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, she's an actress uh who you know learns a script and he's just got you know born into the lucky sperm club, as a friend of mine used to call it.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he's there's no reason they should have any uh particular and everything is going kind of against um the idea of them being particularly curious about life, you know.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: In a way, even to label him as being overprivileged is a kind of crazy criticism because he is literally privileged being in the royal family.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: You can't be any more privileged than being born into the royal family.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: You grow up completely privileged.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, he had a very traumatic childhood.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: His uh mother was killed in a uh good point, very you know, very glamorous um car accident, uh, which was um you know when he was very young.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I and the circumstances of that car accident were pretty horrible.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we will go through this when we discuss in a future podcast.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we'll go into my novel Dutch, which is all about Princess Diana.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I would have thought he and his brother, Harry and William, shared this unique, totally unique position of, you know, the the big sons of Princess Diana.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Their mother was taken away from them at a very tender age.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: You think they would be thick as thieves, that they'd be the closest brothers in the world.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, they have not spoken a word to each other in something like two or three years.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: They are not on speaking terms.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think because of the pub the public uh criticisms that uh the the private laundry.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: That uh Harry has um you know uh displayed in his book and the interviews.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, you know, he he was pretty petty.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it what I read about the his his memoir, if that's what we want to call it, was that he he made a lot of fun of his brother's baldness.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he basically called him a baldy.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, that you know, it's it it runs deep here.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: And at some point in this pod, we'll we'll talk about who's at fault and what what were the transgressions that you know you know there's plenty to go around.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: But where are we up to on the on the timeline?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so on this timeline, we're we're at the I think the Spotify uh dispute is the beginning of the end for them because after that they had you know they they had some success with the Invictus games, but Megan had a lifestyle brand called Megan's American Riviera Orchard.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I think she faced an intellectual property dispute over the name.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: He was either that or yeah, I think that's what it was.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: The Netflix programming was lukewarm, and then in 2024, they they have a legal battle with the UK and and uh they suffer a major setback in the British courts.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it was the loss of taxpayer-funded police protection, and the legal bills, as you cited at the beginning of this, were extraordinary.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a different case.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's a tabloid, that's a that's not the um protection case.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's a he sued, he and Elton John and uh maybe Hugh Grant, a few others sued the Daily Mail for uh perceived intrusion into their um accused of phone hacking and stories that were um, you know, they should have they didn't get by legal means.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they had a very weak case, as it turns out.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: They lost the case and so have had they're having to pay the court costs to the Daily Mail.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: This has been uh I I'm I have very mixed feelings about this because um I don't think uh he should have uh well clearly he should have brought this case because he lost it.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: But it it gives I have mixed feelings too because I said the Daily Mail is a dreadful tabloid.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's a uh it's a just drivel.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's full of drivel and um it's quite right wing.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: And they're very and they very um you know, they were part of the reason for Meg's it, I think.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh the um, you know, the very unkind about uh Megan, really petty about her, um, before they uh before he and uh Harry and Megan left the UK.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's a horrible newspaper that um is supported hugely in the US on its website.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's very popular in the US.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's a gossip sheet, really.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bit like a uh an updated version of um what were those supermarket tabloids?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Are they still going in the US?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what were they called?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I'm talking about?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: There's the National Inquirer and and then a division of the National Inquirer called the Weekly News.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: The one that featured the alien interviewing Ross Perot and Bill Clinton, right?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: World Weekly Vampire Boy, World Weekly.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Something like that.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, at least at least that we could treat that as a parody or satire of some kind.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: The Daily Mail is um doesn't talk about uh UFOs and that stuff, but they um um I don't know, it's very opinionated news and it's uh it's sort of drivel in my my book.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I don't like it partly because it's it's very right wing.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: A lot like most of the press here, it's pretty right wing.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, were they responsible for some of the like extraordinarily loathsome racist headlines aimed at her?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: Or was that was that just across the board with the press?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, just I don't I don't even think we should repeat some of the stuff they said.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I think they were.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think they were.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and um partly because it's old, it's old papers.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same in the with online, you know, algorithms.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's sort of a newspaper, newspaper algorithm.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's just they got a lot of hits from she, they're not Megan became a real, they both became a punching, punching bag, but but I I they did not help themselves.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, when we'll get into this too.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I've had very mixed feelings about Harry and Megan.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And this is coming from someone who was.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was I remember um my wife and I and our children went to Soho House, Poshi Soho House to watch the wedding, the Harry and Meghan wedding live.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: We was at a party, and everyone was very happy about it.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was very exciting, and it's like watching the Knicks win the NBA championship.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and afterwards we just trashed the place.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, did it?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was it was it was an exciting story.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: A biracial American um divorced actress, you know, marries into the royal family, she's gonna stir things up and drag the royal family into the 21st century and modernized, modern.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: They were a good-looking couple, you know, they were adorable.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then some grumpy headlines started appearing about her.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember really defending her to people, just strangers, you know, who could grumble about something.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: I remember saying, you know, I was just up at arms about the the the kind of uh clear racism of some of the some of the vitriolic uh press they got.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I was very much on their side, and they managed to wear me down.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: They really did.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're their their sense of and again, their sense of entitlement.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think, as I said before, you know, you can't be more entitled than be to be born into the royal family.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: But Prince William does not come across that entitled, and and Kate, the Prince and Princess of Wales, do not come across that entitled.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Megan and Harry came across as very unself-aware and very kind of noblesse oblige, let them eat cake.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they had no idea how they were coming across.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Was that your?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna ask if that was your perception, but you really probably haven't been following the story that much.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: Not at all.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Although we're getting to the end of the timeline, right?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because Harry lost this legal, costly legal battle against British courts regarding his um police protection.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that brings us to this very summer where they, I guess the family dispute thawed over these years.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: And the couple attended a private family reunion with King Charles at Highgrove.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: What's Highgrove?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Highgrove is Prince Charles's country house, which he bought before we became king.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was not a family reunion.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: He re uh it was not really uh let's correct this.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's not was not a family reunion because he did not meet with his brother and sister-in-law, he met with his father and stepmother.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that was as much of the reunion it was gotcha.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, after that meeting, reunion, high T, whatever it was, uh, they they announced that they would return to the UK, return as non-working royals in a private home outside of London somewhere, maybe near you.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and they would enroll their children in British schools happily ever after, back home.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: But doesn't it like as an American, doesn't it feel like you know, like these British colonists came into you know our territory and took 150 million bucks and then left town?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that doesn't that feel a little like familiar?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I guess so.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh by the way, they won't move uh near me.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: They they're not moving to back to London, they're moving to outside of London.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Outside of London, undisclosed location.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want to be hounded by the press.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure the press will figure out where they are moving to soon enough.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they've uh supposedly enrolled their young children in a private school, so they had to they have to move back before the end of this month, before the end of August, because the school term is about to begin.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: Ah, uh-huh.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: This then there were rumors that um Megan had been offered an acting role in a uh Guy Ritchie Netflix series called Netflix again, called The Gentleman, uh, which I had not heard of.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's had two series.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Then it was rumored that she hadn't been offered that role or had been offered and then and then taken back because of, I don't know, pushback on the on on that.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I have no idea.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Then they said no, she she has been offered the role.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I cannot understand how she can return to acting because she has brings so much baggage with her.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's gonna be like a gargoyle uh scene if she's in something.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be, you know, the Duchess of Sussex in uh what the gentleman?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't understand how that could possibly work.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And who would hire her?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh because she would sink almost any role she's in because of her, of who she is.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: She's not really an actress anymore.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what's your I can ask you this, even if you haven't followed this story, I can ask you, what is your perception of Meghan Markle?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: I have no perception of her.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: I her she was on a TV show called Suits, she was in a movie called Horrible Bosses.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: She was so between her TV appearances and uh uh streaming and feature films, I they glided right past me.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I really don't know who she is.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but so she wouldn't you wouldn't tune into a Netflix Netflix show because she's in it.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: You have no interest in her as an actress.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: None.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, but if you happened upon if you were flipping her through, like you don't flip through anymore, but if you happen to uh happen upon an episode of The Gentleman and she was in it, I mean, what would you what would you think?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I actually saw I actually watched a couple episodes of The Gentleman, and um it wasn't to my liking, sort of an interesting cast.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think there's a feature film version and a streaming version of The Gentleman.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's about a man who has an estate, can't afford to keep it.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um something along those lines, and so he turns to some seamy financial arrangements.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, one of them was selling weed.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, but my question was about her, and I don't really care about the series.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Her in that I mean, she can't play another character, she is the Duchess of Sussex now.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh um she can't play anything but herself.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you think she's got such a such a I mean, it's it's as if Donald Trump tried to play someone else.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it doesn't work, it does not work.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: I I see, I see from a casting perspective.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so we're going, we're moving from real life to um practical cinematic entertainment decisions.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, could she be in the theater, for example?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Could she could she be in the theater as an as a in in a Shakespeare?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say they cast her in Shakespeare.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm not gonna cast her in Shakespeare, but I bring this up because it was one of the reasons, supposedly, for their returning to the UK.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is a huge deal here.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, let's try explain to me why would it be impossible to be for her to be cast as um someone in an existing series or a new a new production of some kind.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: Why would it be impossible?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because she brings much too much baggage with her.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, she she was not, it wasn't it wasn't even like if Meryl Streep had married into the royal family.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Meryl Streep is a known quantity, a great actress.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: She's won all the Academy Awards.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: She can act.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Megan Markle uh is in suits, you know, she's very pretty.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: She doesn't, she's not was never taken seriously as an actress.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Suits was not taken seriously as a series.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: She's not as she's not, you know, she's not a a great actress.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: You might want to bite your tongue about suits because our friend Reed Bernie is involved in a collaboration with someone from suits.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: So uh but he's not in the back.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Our friend, friend of the pod.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is how we refer friend of the pod, read Bernie, has never appeared in the FOP.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Never appeared in suits, you know.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: She so she is she's a she's a celebrity, and she's a royal, non-working royal.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: She cannot play anything except herself, and she recently did play herself in some small film.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: So great, she could do that.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Donald Trump has his uh actor's equity card because uh member of the yeah, equity, I think, because he appeared as himself in um some Sex and the City.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: He was in Sex in the City, yeah.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: And he was um home alone, lost in the city.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, he's played himself.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: He can't play anything else because he's he's just him, you know.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: And same with Megan Markle, Sussex, Windsor.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: She can't play anyone.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Who's gonna who's gonna cast her in anything except for the you know the the I don't know, the sort of celebrity, the name recognition, the face recognition, it would totally overpower, uh, it would draw attention, it would draw focus away from everyone else in her scene, you know, right?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's interesting.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's an interesting factor.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: But this maybe this brings us to uh you know, the part of our discussion or maybe a debate about who's at fault here.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I I have a sense that it's gonna be very dissatisfying because when both parties are at fault, it's it's kind of hard to hang your hat on, you know.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: But both parties seem pretty shitty, in my opinion.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, oh, we don't swear on this podcast, don't we?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: Which what what what are the two parties?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: I would say Megan, Megan and Harry against the world.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Whoo, well, that's uh against the world.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think and and again, and what are the transgressions?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think it's pretty clear that you know Megan and Harry's behavior being petty, you know, airing grievances, um being tacky, taking a lot of money to um profit from their stations in life.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: But we haven't really talked about the other side.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Roxanne Gay, I believe it was yesterday or the day before in the New York Times, um, you know, one of these early adopters, one of these early arrivals, uh, to to weigh in on the return of Harry and Megan.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, she rested her her essay mostly on racism, which I think she absolutely failed to prove.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: But she made some interesting points that I didn't realize.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, sorry, sorry, Clara Fike.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no wait, wait a minute, you got it.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: She accused the royal family of racism, not the press of racism.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: That was a that was a uh point that I thought needs to need to separate that.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: She's pretty clear that the press press was racist in this incident.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm not, I would, I I would not argue that the press was racist here.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think the royal family was.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I don't she didn't provide any evidence, not a single quote or line or reference to anything of the royal family being racist.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there could be people watching this or listening to this podcast who uh think otherwise and think the royal family racist, but I I don't, I haven't seen any evidence to well.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I think they faced some hostility from the start, but the complaint about racism was and I and I where this, you know, this is a mistake that Roxanne Gay made that Harry to his credit clarified is it wasn't outright racism, it was what he called institutional racism, which is a real problem.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in this day and age, uh, because of who runs our country and steers our culture, um, you know, these things aren't relevant anymore.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: We used to call them microaggressions, but they're pretty serious.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: They're pretty serious in business, in academe.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: And in this case, Harry made a request to the family.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: There was there was an onslaught of very ugly, clearly racist headlines.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: He he made a request of his family to to make a a statement, to to issue a statement to the press to say what you're doing is odious.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: And as you explained before, uh it's a tradition in the royal family to never, never confront the press in that way.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: Remind me the the word don't explain.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Never complain, never explain, never explain.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: I would say the you know, in 2026, it's time to break tradition.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: Apparently, women in in in parliament came out and um made a statement about what was happening in the press aimed at Megan.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, one of the headlines was described, called her, you know, straight out of Compton.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's the most decent of them all.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think that was Daily, that may have been the Daily Mail.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: That was a columnist in the Daily Mail, I believe.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I mean what I think what Harry's complaint was that it they were harboring, you know, maybe unconscious or institutional bias against her.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the royal family.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: The family, the family.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: They could have they could have stood up.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then there was another port that Roxanne Gabe made an interesting point that uh after their wedding, they announced they would no longer serve as senior royals, right?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: They would take less demanding time positions and they'd split their time between the U.S.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: and sometime after the wedding.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: That wasn't right after the wedding, it was 20 months, 20 months later.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, and then at right after that announcement, 10 month 10 days later, Queen Elizabeth II made a statement that the couple could would no longer be his and her royal highnesses, and they wouldn't be working for the family business in any capacity.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if my mother said that to me, I'd flee to Montecito.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because I think it percent I this was called half in, half out here.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted to be half in, half out, and the queen said, No, either you're working royal or you're non-working.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: What's half in, half out?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: You you go on holiday for six months, or you know, they already can go on holiday.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um the schedule, yeah.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's that was you know, wanting what's the expression?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Have it all have it all, having your cake and eating your cake and having it too.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's expression.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: Having your crumpets and eating them too.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and eating it too.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, either you're working royal or you're not, you know, it's called the firm, it's the family business.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that hard, really.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: You you know, you open this, snap a few ribbons, cut ribbons, and you you sponsor charities, you show up, you know.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that demanding.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and they wanted they they they should have they should have stayed and done it, they would have been great, they would have made, they could have modernized the royal family.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: They chose not to.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: This was their choice, it really was their choice.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think they missed an opportunity, and they are not popular in the UK anymore.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: We can go through, we've both done research on these polls, they are not popular.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um uh Harrison actually tell us tell us about that poll.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: That that is that is pretty interesting.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: It is interesting because so 80 uh 87 percent well, you correct me.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: I what I read in the new in the London Times was 80 percent of people polled said that the Sussex's private funds should uh their own money should pay for their security.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um 71% said that uh the government um should not fund any of their security, but the royal family should kick in because they have a lot of money.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: 52 percent said that um the uh this is on the subject of the king's private funds.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: So when it came to UK government funding, 71 said 71% of the population said, no, don't pay.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: Don't use government funding.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: When it when they said use the Sussex's private funds, 87% said yes.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: They should use their private funds.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: They have the funds.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: They're clearly washing their hands of this couple.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they've got one other perception is, I think, at least my perception is, I mean, I would answer it that way too.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: They've got enough money.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: They've made all this money off there.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: How did they make this money?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: He's not, it's not, he's not John, what is it?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: Joe Blood.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's not a normal guy.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: He's just he's made the money because he's a member of the royal family, and and he had all this gossip to tell about the inside story of growing up in the royal family.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's he made money off the royal family and he's made millions.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: No one would Netflix would not be interested in him if he was just Joe Blow off the street, even if he was Poshi Joe Blow off the street.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: Sir Joe Blow, he's he's Prince Harry, the son of Princess Diana.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's the only interest they have of him.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: He's not that interesting otherwise.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this is where I think Roxanne Gay made a very good point.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: She said, while in California, while stateside, Harry had to learn that when people aren't by custom expected to like or pretend to like you, you have to bring something substantive to the table.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: And when you don't, the opportunities disappear.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: So he and she are in the wilderness, and it's going to take a long time to build back public goodwill and trust.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, also here, you know, they the British feel they abandoned the UK.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they did.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't say they'd be back.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like, oh no, I'd be back.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: They moved to Monte, what is it called?
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Montecito?
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: Montecito, California.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: And a you know, a huge house with uh, I don't know, lots of acreage and all Sasana, and they they lived like multi-millionaires that they are.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: They are multimillionaires, and now they're coming back.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because he missed Marmite and uh, you know, a good English fry-up and the schools, I guess you guess the schools are much better here than they are in uh Northern California.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and uh they've got all this money, they made they bled California, Hollywood dry.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: They made all this money, and then were and then they were called grifters, so they're coming back to the UK with their wealth.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: Why can't they pay for their own security arrangements?
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there's one caveat to that, and that is here, I believe it's probably different in the U in the US.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: In the UK, private security details are not allowed to carry guns.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: Only official government interesting.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if they did have to, so they have the money.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, he hasn't mentioned this, and maybe he doesn't want to want to mention this, but it could be he wants doesn't feel safe unless he has a security detail that with guns.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: And are they allowed to are they allowed to have pepper spray or electric gloves?
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because he could hire out ice.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: They can have cricket bats, I think.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's what I read anyway.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: By the way, Montecito is central, it's the central California coast.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, excuse me.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hundred miles north of LA.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: So that's LA, not California's north.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: Not north enough.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Not north enough, right?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's middle and middle California.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so could his security detail carry nunchucks or brass knuckles?
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm keeping, but I'm giving them sort of the benefit.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: But they dress like ninjas.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how they're gonna, but he could afford he could afford it, but maybe maybe he still feels that's not uh sufficient.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: But they're not wanting for money.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: But they burned a lot of bridges when uh they left the UK and and complained about everything.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: Just how about those guys who are they guard the palace and they're on the bottle of gin?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: Beef eater.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, could he get a couple of those guys?
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, they can't, and they're not private.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: How about an ex-beef eater instead of a bear hat?
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: It could be a raccoon hat or oh wait, what's that other animal that you have in the UK?
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh badger, the badger hat.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: Badger hat, yeah.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: A badger helmet.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, I didn't know.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, heat they're not popular here.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they have a lot of ground to catch up.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I didn't think maybe they could ingratiate themselves.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: I will, I will.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Here's another little historical anecdote I'll give you.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um his aunt, um Anne, Princess Anne, now the Princess Royal.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: She used so she is what does that mean, Princess Royal?
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm not sure.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's some kind of honorific um title they bestowed on her.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: She's the only daughter of the late Queen Elizabeth II.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: And she was not popular for many years, and she was always uh caught speeding, and you know, she got uh bad tabloid coverage.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now she is one of the most popular members of the royal family because she does her duty and she's very good at charity, she's hardworking royal, and she shows up at all these charity events, you know, and she she but my point is she reversed her negative reputation.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I didn't think that was possible.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: She, I think she's been married twice, and you know, she's had they've all had marriage now marital difficulties except for maybe the youngest, uh Edward.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, um, so uh it's not out of the uh it's not impossible that uh Megan and Harry could restore or improve their reputation here.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I don't know how they do it because they're not working royals.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what their job, I don't know what they would do here.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, they're they're I don't know how they could improve their their public profile.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um and she's not you know the meta algorithm is designed to uh to sustain virality for lack of a better word.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: And being unpopular is as good as being popular, so they they've got that going for them.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the press are all over it.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: They are they love it.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's been so many stories since the first announcement.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's gonna be interesting to see how they deal with this press and um how um how kind of monstrous the press turn out to be.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: They were monstrous, I'll I will admit to that.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: Not all of them, but uh the yeah, the the Daily Mail.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: But he did not Harry did not go about it the right way.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: He did not improve his standing with the press by suing them and then losing the case.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, the the Daily Mail were um braying over winning that case, as you can you can imagine their response to that.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I I and I have mixed feelings about too, because um a lot of people who have uh a libel case against a journalist will will go to the UK to win because your libel laws are less strict than here in the US.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm happy that they won, they lost because it means that your free press holds up somewhat.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sad that they didn't get their come up as come up as.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I I uh I agree with that uh with that assessment.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they it was a very weak case.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: I wish it was a stronger case than it was, but it wasn't never should have been brought.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, when they were in uh mid-california, and what is it, Montecito?
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: How do you pronounce that?
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that was pretty cosited.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: That was very, you know, 100 miles away from uh LA.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's no such there's no such place here, unless they move to, you know, distant Scotland.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're gonna be much more in the middle of things here.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's no getting away from the press here, particularly.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: The way they really did get either they got away from the press in California or people just weren't interested.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: The press lost interest in them.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think the press will lose interest in them here.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna be pretty, I don't know what it's gonna be interesting, um, and might be rough, you know.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't still I don't understand why they've returned returned.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh right.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: So what is what is the motivation?
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, is it take the money and run?
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: Is that they're no longer welcome in the US?
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: Are they not earning uh attention or adulation that they hoped for?
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think accounts for that?
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think you I think we can take Harry at his word here.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: His father uh is got cancer, the king Charles has cancer, and he said, uh Harry has said publicly he doesn't know how long his father had.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: That was a statement the royal family did not like.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: They haven't announced what kind of cancer Charles has.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: If we don't know what is that was uh that was a more dire um uh designation of his uh father's illness than had been publicly uh revealed by the royal family.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that was alarming, but maybe he's right.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so he may he may be trying to patch up uh with his brother.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: He did miss England, you know.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I it's a big change.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you grew up in England, um, you know, when you move out to California and you're out in the sticks, yeah.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think he did miss, he's got friends here, he's family here.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them are estranged.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I I I think we can take him at at his word.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know about Megan's acting career because I I'm very uh skeptical of that, but uh that supposedly was one uh another reason they'd come back and the schools better here.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: He wants, he has been reported as saying to people friends, he wants his children to grow up, uh kind of the way he did, you know, learning what crooked and um Latin.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's how he got the word invictive.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, okay, and I guess getting um you know whipped in boarding school or whatever is uh I got beaten to a pulp in my boarding school, and it was the best thing that ever happened to me.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm my children are gonna go through the damn same thing I went through.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_02: If it's the last thing I do, and it might well you know you you mentioned mentioned Prince Charles, and he he's the one royal who who caught my attention during the pandemic when um looking for ways to enrich ourselves while working at Bank of America.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: Our CEO interviewed him on a company-wide video conference, and I found him really, really likable and interesting.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe, maybe that's for another pod.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I like King Charles.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was mean to him in my book, but I like him.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's smart.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: He uh we can talk.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there we we could bring up the his recent visit to the U.S., which a lot of people asked, uh, thought he should call off the state visit to Washington.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: He made a brilliant speech, delivered a brilliant speech brilliantly to a joint session of Congress, which was threading a needle.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that was a tough speech to make without alienating Donald Trump, but stating his case, reminding Congress about checks and balances from the ultimate Republican.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the king.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was great.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was brilliant.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: He also had to pronounce that word Suskus, Susquehanna Centennial, Susque Susquitennial.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_00: Susquis, squirrel and centennial, yeah, which we got.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: Squirrel and moose, tennial, yep.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I really him.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: He's been uh he's been um you know into organic farming like 40 years ago.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: He's been ahead of the curve on environmental issues.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so kudos to Prince now King Charles.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: His heart is in the right place.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know what?
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think we have to do the next podcast.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think we just did it.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we just did it.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: Two for one podcast listeners.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: I hope King Charles um is get is in remission and and and has a long life because he's a he's a good he's a good person, I think.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um Hey, we're at a at the heart of the show where I have to ask, do you have a headquake?
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because I do.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I do.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: What's your headquake?
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's I I'm not cheating, uh, I don't think, because while doing the research for this pod, I remembered one of my favorite headlines of all time.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I'm a headline collector.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, good one.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it's related to to Prince Harry, who tastelessly wore Nazi regalia at a costume party.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_00: He was quite young at the time, he was like, I don't know, 16, 17.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_02: He was young, he was a young guy, yeah.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: But naturally, it made the tabloids.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: And what was the headline at the New York Post?
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I hate giving the New York Post any kind of attention.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you can give attention for their headline, they've always been great at headlines.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: What was the headline?
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Der Fuhrer, but Fuhrer is not spelled like the German word leader, it was spelled like the word for conflict, F-U-R-O-R, Der Fuhrer.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: Der Fuhrer.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, with the fat photograph that and then there's a bonus to this.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: I while doing the research on the uh New York Post uh covers in that same month, which was January 2005, uh there was a headline that said the lady is a Trump, and it was it announced the uh engagement or wedding or something of Melania to Donald J.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: Plump.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, not Trump.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there they've been the the famous headlines Headless Body Found in Topless Bar, uh Ford to New York drop dead.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: Was that the uh yeah, the the fame, but great.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, very good headline writers.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good one.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my headquake, you're a New Yorker reader, right?
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do they still have a there will always be in England?
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: They used to have that at the bottom of the page if they if there was a little space left at the end of an article, and they'd have some headline from some British local paper or something that was could only be in Britain or in England.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember that?
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: There was I remember it, but I I just three hours with the New Yorker a few days ago, and I don't remember seeing it.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: They don't do it online.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: I get it, I have a digital subscription, so I didn't know if they stood do it.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_02: No, I was looking at a physical on the plane.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_02: I was reading a physical description.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_02: That could be a that could be a whole other headquake because Evan Osnos has a terrific article about China and really how much leadership the US has ceded.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's my headquake.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, go for it.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: So in their and another thing, there's another cartoon that was really funny.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: And no, all right.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: So in the tradition of there always being England, uh, or Britain, I should say, uh, my children lease and they turned me on to a BBC series called The Great British Sewing Bee, which I didn't know about.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: Only in England.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's in its 12th, it's 12th season.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: 12th season.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's competitive sewing.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's competitive sewing.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's like the great British bake-off, but it's about sewing.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: And they are given like rags to do here is uh an old cloth shower, here's a uh shower curtain, or this is an old Mac, and you have to make it into a um you know children's costume or something.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought the only thing that could be more British than that would be if there were animal costumes involved.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: And sure enough, I looked it up in um in one of the seasons.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um they had to um the contestants had to make animal fancy dress costumes out of old beach towels.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_00: And by God, they did.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: But each week one of them is voted off.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the apprentice, but for sewing.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_02: And but they sign off very politely, I bet.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's the antidote to the apprentice.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: We still have the apprentice here, which has got nothing to do with the apprentice in the US, which has been soiled by Donald Trump forever.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_00: When I mention the apprentice to my American friends, they recoil because, of course, it's all about Trump.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: Here it's Lord Sugar, is the as is the guy, and uh, but it's too aggressive for me for me.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_00: It has, you know, I'm gonna skin my competitors and down to the bone because I'm the most capitalist one.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_00: But the sewing bee is we're so sorry we have to let one of you go because all of your costumes are just so lovely, wonderful.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, Joanna, I'm so sorry, but we have to, but you've been just beautiful and wonderful, and we want to keep in touch.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'll send you a postcard.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: The experience has been wonderful and enriching.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've I gladly relinquish my role so someone may have a have a spot in future shows.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, great, sorry.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing such a good job.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well I lift it up.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_00: If your US viewers and listeners are interested, it is available in the US on the Roku platform.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is that how you pronounce it?
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: R-O-A-U.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: Roku.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to tune in to the great British Sewing Bee, it's on Roku in the United States.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: My children love it.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_02: Very nice indeed, Mr.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_02: Miller.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_02: Very nice.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well played on that headquake.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, all right.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'd have we uh I hope we've explained the um Meg return.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I wanted to say if anyone has a good portmanteau to explain the return of Megan and Harry.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh it was Meg's it was the leaving of UK.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's um the the Meg Harra turn.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, we'll see how it plays out.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: You're thinking until next time.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is Jim Jelamis in Brooklyn and JV Miller in London, as Boomer has it.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.