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Rugby Direct - Reaction / analysis to Dave Rennie announcement · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks at B.
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  Speaker 2: Straight down the Middle, Get inside the game from Every
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  Speaker 2: end Goal.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: It's Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier powered
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  Speaker 1: by News Talks EDB.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Welcome in to Rugby Direct powered by Habit Health Physio
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: book today and Stay in the Game podcast number two
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: of Rugby Direct Today Elliott Smith and by popular demand,
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: We've had letters, We actually have had letters demanding Liam
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Napier return to the podcast on this day of all days,
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: as Dave Rennie is an Ounstall Blacks coach. Liam Napier
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: returns to Rugby Direct. Then you, as you label yourself
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: before Bionic.
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: Man, that's right, Elliott's. I couldn't miss such a big day.
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't say come from the hospital bed, but shall
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: we stay new and improved back?
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: Good to have you back. Well, let's start with us.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: Your reaction even before the media conference to Dave Rennie
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: being confirmed as the All Blacks head coach.
• 1:21
  Speaker 5: Look for me, Elliott's.
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: I think it's the right call and I think from
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: my perspective, it's an easy decision. I felt from the
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: outset that Dave Rennie was the compelling candidate. That's not
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: to say it's going to be easy for him. It's
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: going to be a pretty tough variety. He's got what
• 1:36
  Speaker 4: four months before the first test, five months before going
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: to South Africa, in fifteen months before the World Cup,
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: so it's a really tough scenario there. And look, Jamie
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: Joseph had credentials, but I just I feel like Joseph
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: not having Tony Brown with him was a major blow
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: for his credentials. And also when we go through and
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: look at their respective coaching teams, I think Joseph was
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: looking at retaining a lot of Scott Robertson's assistance and
• 2:07
  Speaker 4: I didn't really like the sound of that as well.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: So on the face of it, I think they've been
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: through a thorough process. They went up to Japan, they
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: went to Dunedin, they spoke to a number of different references,
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: they had three four hour long in person interviews.
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: So I don't think you can knock the process.
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: Maybe you would have wanted more candidates involved, the likes
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: of Joe Schmidt, but the way things are boiled down,
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: I think Dave Renni is the best possible candidate in
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: the circumstance.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: The culture that Dave Rennie brings to an organization, he
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: was famous for it at the Chiefs around what he
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: was able to tap into the Malti culture and the
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: Waiktau and linking that all back together and won them
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: a couple of titles in twenty twelve and twenty thirteen,
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: and they were there or thereabouts and the other years
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: as well. From what I understand, the Wallabies had a
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: really strong culture under him as well. How much do
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: you think that played a key part in terms of
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: he's got an eighteen month window through to the Rugby
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: World Cup next year, getting a culture in place quickly
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: and being able to get you know, where this team
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: needs to be from a culture perspective.
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's certainly a major factor. Look, culture's
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: an interesting concept, doesn't it. It's intangible and when you
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: look at Scott Robertson's rise to the All Blacks, he
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: was by and large sort of tagged as a bit
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: of a culture coach, but couldn't carry that from the
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: Crusaders through to the All Blacks. That that was a
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: real downfall of his Dave Rennie, as you mentioned, has
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: done a great job of it everywhere. He's been tapping
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: into that mouldiedom at the Chiefs, making the players help
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: build their training base, all those sort of skin in
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: the game purpose and meaning.
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: He took a lot of.
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: That from Dave, from Wayne Smith as well, So I
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: think he's learned from a lot of different coaches along
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: the way. I think Renie's got very good relationships both
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: with players and coaches. He has built on that over time,
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: and you touched on it there with the Wallabies, even
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: when he was ousked by Hamish mcclennan for Eddie Jones,
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: which was a complete train wreck. So many of those
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: senior Wallabies spoke out in favor of Rennie and what
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: he was building and the build up to that World
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: Cup and that they were really annoyed that he had
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: been let go. So I think he's really popular among players,
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: and I think, look, I think this All Black team
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: does need to be brought together. It does need a
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: bit of a reset. It needs to get everyone on
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: the same page. It needs alignments, and I think Dave
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: Rennie has shown throughout his coaching career and a track
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: record I've been able to do that. But the All
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: Blacks that are a completely different beast, aren't they. The
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: pressure of the expectation, the scrutiny, the schedule, with what's
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: to come this year, it's going to be a tough ask.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: Indeed it is, Jamie. Joseph was being tagged and I
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: think this has gone around this, you know, the Raby
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: circles a bit, you know, being a little too old school.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: Do you think that hurt him in the sphere of
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: the all Blacks appointment panel.
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: I think some things that would have come through, depending
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: on who that panel spoke to, would have been some
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: things about the way he tuned through some assistant coaches.
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: There's been a string leave the handas in recent times
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: my understanding, as he approached a number of different assistant
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: coaches to join him in this all blackbird Kenny Lynn,
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: who's now with the Pumas, was one Ian foster, Joe Schmidt,
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: Tony Brown, and I think they all decline for various reasons.
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: I think that probably potentially hurt his cause as well.
• 5:44
  Speaker 4: I just think Joseph needs Tony Brown as that foil.
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: He's that old school, as you mentioned, tough task master,
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: he doesn't take any shit. He runs players really hard
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: in trainings, where Tony Brown is that softer foil, he
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: connects better with players, He's you know, a traditional assistant
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: in that regard. So I just didn't see Tony Brown,
• 6:08
  Speaker 4: sorry Jamie Joseph having that balance in his coaching. And
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: I think also the fact that while it didn't go
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: well from Renny has coached a Tier one international team
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: in the Wallabies, where Joseph had Japan, and while they
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: had success as a different kettle of fish, isn't it
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: in terms of expectations on week to week and having
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: to regularly beat Tier one opposition.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, the pressures on and there's more media scrutiny,
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: there's more questions coming with a Tier one nation, and
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: you know he dealt with adversity as well in that
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: Wallaby's I know people will talk about the winning record
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: and I think it was thirty eight percent roughly, But
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: not to give him a pass necessarily, but you're going
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: to remember that first year was in COVID times. They
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: played the All Blacks four times in that first year.
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: They won one of those tests and probably should have
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: won two. That first Test in Wellington that year. He
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: had some wins over the spring Box there are a
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: couple of black marks. The lost to Italy along the way,
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: which is a you know, absolutely no no for the
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks going forward, but you know, it felt
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: like the Wallabies were on upwards trajectory by and large,
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: barring the Italy game heading into twenty three. The carpa
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: gets pulled out from underneath him and he has to
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: go elsewhere. How much do you think that the Kobe
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: role over the last couple of years has helped reinvent
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: him a little bit? I'm sure obviously obviously, you know,
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: we've talked about the members of the coaching panel go
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: over and observe him in Kobe, but he's also worked
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: with Ardie Savia, he's with Brodie Retallic, and I'm sure
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: that their comments haven't been lost on the you know,
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: the appointment panel around what they've dealt with at that.
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: Club he touched on before.
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: I guess that Rennie's popularity among players, and I think
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: those players, along with Antonina Brown, who's also at Kobe,
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: would have spoke very highly of Dave Renni. I don't
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: know if necessarily coaching in Japan helps your cause, but
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: the fact that he has been offshore for nine years.
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: He's been to Scotland's had success with Glasgow, took them
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: to I think it was the Pro fourteen at that
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: time finals, been to Australia, been to Japan and then
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: new factor in that the experience in New Zealand's coaching
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: Wellington to the provincial title back in two thousand, taking
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: one or two from real.
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: Salad Dwellers to quite a competitive.
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: Provincial team, having great success with the New Zealand twenties
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: going to the Chiefs. So when you pull all that together,
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: it is quite a compelling track record. Where Joseph has
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: largely been with the Highlanders, Japan, he had a bit
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: of time with Wellington and New Zealand, Maldi and the
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: All Blacks fifteen, but it doesn't quite stack up in
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: terms of international the breeks of experience that Rennie's had
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: and the contrasting experiences, and I think you'll see that
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: come through potentially with Renie's favored coaching team and the
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: way he played the game, and it has views on
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: how to approach it there and interestingly you touch on
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: the springbox there, Elliott.
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: I think I don't know how much can you read
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: into this.
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: It's going to be trumped up and mentioned a lot
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: between now and the South African Tour. Rennie's record against Russia,
• 9:23
  Speaker 4: Rasmus's Russi, Raustmus's spring Box, He's sitting at seventy five percent.
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: How relevant is that when he steps into the all
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: Black skeg that was with the Wallabies.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: Well, I think it's it's going to be mentioned, isn't
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: it at nauseum until that first test? When is it
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: late August between these two sides. I think it's about
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: the twenty first of August that that stat is going
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: to be mentioned on and on. I think it's valuable.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: He's clearly found some secret source there. But it has
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: been a few years removed. You know that the spring
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: Box are a different team since they last played against
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: the Wallabies under Dave Rennie in twenty twenty two. I mean,
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: what four years removes since the end, I've added another
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: World Cup into the cabinet, They've got a new team,
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: They've got various other players. So I don't know that
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: you can read too much into it. I think it's
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: an encouraging stat, but you know, I think the spring
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: Walks have certainly changed since then. I want to get
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: on the media conference shortly in what you took out
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: of that when we were both there earlier in the
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: day as Dave Rennie and David Kirk fronted media. But
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: just going back to Dave Rennie's work with the Chiefs
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: and what stood out to me earlier in the day
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: is just looking, you know, back on Wikipedia and back
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: on the stats around the team for that final in
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: twenty twelve when they beat the Sharks, and some players
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: went on to hire honors after that, but Brady Retalick
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: hadn't made as All Black's debut at that point. Aaron
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: Cruden played a World Cup you know, semi final the
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: previous year, but it was his first year at the
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Chiefs and hadn't properly established himself as an All Black.
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: You know, Sonny Williams in the midfield there, but you know,
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: players like Andrew Horror, Robbie Robinson, Assilia, Tom Craig Clark
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: in the twenty three these aren't with all due respect
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: to these guys, these aren't you know, greats of the
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: game that have gone on, you know, to become great
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: All Blacks. These are solid, very very hard working players
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: that he probably squeezed every last dropout of rather than
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: being you know, all blacks that he got the beast
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: out of at super rugby level.
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: Absolutely.
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: Gareth Anskim was another brought down from the Blues and
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: it was a real hallmark of that Chiefs team. You know,
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: everyone looks at the Aaron Crudens and the sunny Bill
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: Williams and yeah, the headline figures that Rennie brought him,
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: but he completely overhauled a team that was coached the
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: last two years prior to that by Ian Foster. I
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: think they finished tenth and eleventh and Super rugby. Rennie
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: comes in alongside Wayne Smith, Tom Coventry and others and
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: has a complete clean out and won successive titles. And
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: the trademark of those teams, as you mentioned, was he
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: went out and selected players largely based on character and
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: work great and that's what he looks for.
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: And it was very clear and evidence today, wasn't it.
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: And Rennie's statements, I thought he was very calm, very
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: comfortable in front of the cameras and very clear and
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: concise and he said, look, players are going to have
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: to earn their place in this team. I don't have
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: any loyalties and I don't think that's necessarily true.
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: Across the board.
• 12:13
  Speaker 4: He's not just going to not select an Artie severe,
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: but it's a very strong message to send in your
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: first press corrence, isn't it.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: It is? Indeed, let's hear what Dave Rennie had to
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: say on that front.
• 12:22
  Speaker 6: I guess one of vantage's Yeah, you know, players are
• 12:27
  Speaker 6: going to turn the right to wear the jersey. I've
• 12:30
  Speaker 6: I've sort of got no law ties. I don't come
• 12:32
  Speaker 6: from a team where I've had a lot of these
• 12:34
  Speaker 6: guys previously, and so I think that's really exciting. And
• 12:41
  Speaker 6: you know, we'll select based.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: On form, select based on form. I think that's encouraging
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: their land what he did say around that, because I
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: think there has been a tendency to select players that
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: either you're comfortable with or have reputations and have been
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: around the international game for a number of years. I hope,
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: you know, without wanting to disrespect anyone, but I hope
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: that Dave Rennie does stick to that and does select
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: on forman it is a clean slate, and he looks
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: for those hard working players and remodels it into his
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: image of wanting those hard working types that are going
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: to win test matches for their country.
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's a great message to send, isn't it.
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: You've got you're essentially saying no one's safe. Look over
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: your shoulder, play well now because nobody's safe, and I
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: think that should evoke a rise in everyone. There's so
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: many contestable positions within their all Black squads. You've got
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: Richard Muwanga coming back, You've got a number of fringe
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: guys who could be putting their hands up, and a
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: change of coach can have a massive impact.
• 13:40
  Speaker 5: On squad selection.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: So it's going to be very intriguing to see how
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: quickly Rennie progresses that come July.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: Indeed, it is as you mentioned. I thought he was
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: calm and assured at the media conference today. He didn't
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: give away too much around the style of rugby that
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: he wants to play, necessarily keeping that in his arsenal
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: for the time being, but he said he had a
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: clear idea around they want you, they wanted to play. So,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: based on what you know about Dave Rennie, what kind
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: of style are you expecting from him? He mentioned that
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: he's got some ideas around how they can make some
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: shifts from what he's seen the last couple of years.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: But what do you expect the Dave Rennie style to
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: be for the All Blacks.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: I think if you go back and look at the
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: Chiefs in particular, they were very confrontational and competitive around
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: the breakdown.
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: A lot of teams actually complained.
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: About the way they cleared out past the breakdown. So
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: they push the boundaries of the law, but very much
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: strong Ford orientated set piece, but not necessarily a.
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: Huge kicking game.
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: And Rennie's teams traditionally are not afraid to have a
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: crack from inside their own half, and I think that's
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: real contrast for Jamie Joseph. He's more of a territorial
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: based coach, doesn't like to play in his own half,
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: will use the box kick or tactical kicking quite a lot,
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: and then look to play where Rennie's teams are not
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: afraid to chance their inside their own forty, inside their
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: own twenty two, to use their skills to have a
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: real crack and to try and create space. Any traditionally
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: as an attacking mind, so I think he will look
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: to bring on an attack coach, but that's one of
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: his strengths. So I think that's where you could see
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: some big shifts from the Saw Black team who do possess.
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: Let's be honest, a range of potent athletes that have
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: been stuttering in the past eighteen months, haven't they?
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: They have, And it was interesting to hear him say
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: that he thinks that maybe New Zealanders don't appreciate the
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: quality of the rugby being played in the Northern Hemisphere
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: and that we've probably been a little bit closed minded
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: around the innovation of the game that happens here. And
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: we've been beating that Drum and others have as well
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: around the fact that New Zealand's been left behind in
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: that regard. But he seems more open minded around that
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: and how you know, perhaps New Zealand's been left behind
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: a little bit around some of those key innovations in rugby.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think New Zealanders in general, because of
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: the time zone, because of our isolation, we can be
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: guilty of being in a bit of a bubble and
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: only looking at our own.
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: Backyard to a degree, or Australia.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: But you look at the Top fourteen, which we don't
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: see a lot of here, there's some brilliant rugby up
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: there in the UK as well. Northampton have played a
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: very open, expansive style of game in recent years. And
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: you know Lens has had great success in Ireland, so
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: Renny has experience that hasn't he with his two years
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: in Scotland and they think he's taken a lot from that.
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: And then even in other aspects of Japan and the Wallabies,
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: he's worked with a number of different coaches from around
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: the world, so I think that can only benefit him.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: Well, it's touch on that the assistant coaches I said
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: before even front of the media that I su to
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: speak to. You'll go with players, coaches that he's worked
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: with before, from his chiefs environment. You know, he hasn't
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: got a lot of times he emphas today to get
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: into things. He's still with Kobe until early June. Then
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: it's going to be roughly what a month until his
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: first test in charge and then you look at the
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: bigger picture and its certainly not long to the Rugby
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: World Cup. So you can't go in with people that
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: you don't trust, are uncertain about. So is he more
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: likely do you think Liam to go with the you know,
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: the people that he knows well, the assistants that he's
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: worked with previously at you know, the number of places
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: he's been to.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think all coaches want to do that. You
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: look at Scott Robinson and his first coaching team. He
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: was so set from even probably a year out from
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: being appointed.
• 17:45
  Speaker 5: Wasn't here that Leo.
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: McDonald, Jason Hollands, Jason Ryan and Scott Hansen were his
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: men and he never.
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: Really wavered from that.
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: So all coaches want to work with people that they
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: know and trust, and I think Dave Renny's no different.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: I'm hearing he'll look to bring in Neil Barnes who
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: as one of his lead assistants. He worked with Barnes
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: and Ready worked together at the Chiefs. Barnes has also
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: had experience on the international scene with Canada and Italy.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: I think he's been with Tartanaki and had success there
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: for six years. He's known as a real tough task
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: master with a lot of expertise around the lineup. Also
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: hearing whispers around someone like Mike Blair, who's currently coaching
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: with Rennie in Kobe. He's Scotland's most capted halfback, has
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: experience with Glasgow. He was head coach in Edinburgh and
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: Scotland before moving to Japan to join Rennie, so he
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: could potentially come on board as an attack coach. But
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: that would be very interesting from an All Blacks perspective.
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: Haven't had a foreign coach in the mix before. I
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: know you've advocated for that before, So interesting to see
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: how New Zealand Rugby would react to that. Andrew Strawbridge
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: potentially in the mix as a skills coach and other
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: former Chiefs guy, and I'm hearing Phil Healey as in
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: line likely to replace Nick Gill as strength and conditioning coach.
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: Phil Healey comes highly regarded. It was another guy that
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: was at the Chiefs and at the Blues and he's
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: now also in Kobe, so he's done on Rugby.
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: May push back on some of that and.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: Look to get Renny to retain more of the current
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: assistant coaches, maybe to look to save some money. But
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: if Renny got his way, I think Jason Ryan could
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: be the only survivor of those current assistant coaches.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: That would be a heck of a cleanout, wouldn't it.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: And look, we talked at the top about Jamie Joseph
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: potentially more aligning with the current assistants. This it would
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: be on the verge of a pretty much a clear
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: out of the of the current assistants there, And I
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: think it's a hard one to say that the assistant
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: should be retained because you know a lot of them,
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: you know, are tarnished by the Scott Robertson brush of
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: that era just not working in the end. So I
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: think it's going to be interesting to see just where
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: Rennie lands if he does keep Jason Ryan. That is,
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: you know, full on clean out when you consider some
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: of the other roles that have departed, you know Nick
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: Gill as you mentioned there and others too. So so
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: it's going to be a different looking all back staff
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: this year, isn't.
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: It It is?
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: And look, there may be some form of compromise needed there.
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: News own Rugby may say, look, we want you to
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: retain Tumbody Allison or Bryn Evans. You know, there may
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: be some form of compromise required on Renney's behalf there.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: But generally speaking, head coaches get car blanche, don't they.
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: They get to work with who they know and trust,
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: who they believe as the right man for the job.
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: And when you look at those assistant coaches, I think
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: Scott Hansen has to be in the spotlight because he
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: switched from defense portfolio to the attacking one and it
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: just it didn't work.
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: So for me, he has to be in the firing line.
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: Tumbody Allison took over the defense, and I think he's
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: going to be a great coach in time. Whether he's
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: ready for the international arena now in a defensive coaching
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: role which comes with vast responsibility, not too sure. I
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: think Brandy Evans did a great job with the lineup,
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: but with Neil Barnes coming in and potentially Jason Ryan
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: being retained as well as their room for him, so
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: there's some big decisions and you'd expect that to play
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: out pretty quickly over the coming weeks because as you mentioned,
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: there's not a lot of time before that first Test.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: No, and he's going to need bodies on the ground,
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: isn't he in New Zealand, Because he mentioned he's going
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: to be spending every waking hour watching over tape and
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: he has been anyway watching a fair bit of super rugby,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: but he's going to have to really dial that up
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: and he needs people on the ground to get the
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: ball rolling on some of those things. I asked Dave Rennie.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: I think it was the only question I got in
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: whether the all Blacks can win next year's Rugby World Cup.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: This is how he responded, all ances.
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: Yes, and I'll take a hell of lot of work.
• 21:52
  Speaker 6: It'll take a lot of alignment. We're going to make
• 21:54
  Speaker 6: sure that players and staff and S and C and
• 21:58
  Speaker 6: the medical and we're all aligned so he can get
• 22:01
  Speaker 6: the athlete in the best possible position to execute and
• 22:04
  Speaker 6: play well.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: So that was Dave Rennie talking about the World Cup, hope.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: So it was honest, but he said that's going to
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: take a lot of work. And I thought there was
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: a refreshing honest answer from Dave Rennie on that one. Liam.
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, I thought he was very concise and clear
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: and honest.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: And he also acknowledged the fact that it's highly likely
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: that the All Blacks are on a collision course with
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: the spring Box and a World Cup quarterfinal. And when
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: I like the fact that when he talked about that,
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: he said we're going to get a lot of practice
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: against them, and how a lot of people view this
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: tor to South Africa as daunting prospects and I think
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: that's certainly how you and I were looking at it
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: from an All Blacks perspective prior to Scott Robinson sacking
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: and even now with the amount of change that the
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: All Blacks are going to have to go through in
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: a short space of time, going to South Africa, facing
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: the World champions on their home soil and their Super
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: rugby teams with the amount of depth that they had,
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: it seems very daunting. But they've Renny sort of flipped
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: down on his head, didn't he and talked about it
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: as as relishing that prospect.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Indeed, the other interesting point around the media conference, and
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: it's already been jumped on, is what Dave Renny said
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: around the eligibility laws. This has been a constant hot topic,
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: hasn't it on with Richie Mwanga and other players should
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: they be selected from abroad. Here's what he had to say.
• 23:31
  Speaker 6: I'll comment on Bradier Retel. I'll get to see him
• 23:35
  Speaker 6: and train and play every week. He's stronger than he's
• 23:39
  Speaker 6: ever been, he's fit of and he's ever been top
• 23:42
  Speaker 6: tri score in Japan at the moment with eleven pretty
• 23:44
  Speaker 6: low at him back. I'm not sure if I'm allowed
• 23:47
  Speaker 6: to yet, but yeah, it's no doubt. You want to
• 23:52
  Speaker 6: win a World Cup. Ideally you've got your best players
• 23:54
  Speaker 6: available and obviously Richie's coming back, which which would be good.
• 23:58
  Speaker 6: He's been in great form in Japan and yeah, certainly
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: you have someone like a Bradier Retelic coming into the environment.
• 24:08
  Speaker 6: I reckon it'll really grow the whole group. He's he's
• 24:12
  Speaker 6: done a phenomenal job around leadership at Colby and you know,
• 24:16
  Speaker 6: I'm not sure him. How much do you guys watch
• 24:18
  Speaker 6: of that competition, but it's it's gone through the roof.
• 24:23
  Speaker 6: It's a lot of experienced coaches up there's some of
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: the best players in the world playing there and the
• 24:27
  Speaker 6: Coaley's really strong, so you know his sites up there,
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: it'll beat Sigarepey teams in this competition. So yeah, So
• 24:36
  Speaker 6: he's been phenomenal and if I had the chance to
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: get him back, I'd certainly jump in it.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: That was Dave Rennie talking about the eligibility laws. Interesting
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: that he put Brodie Ritelli's name out there. Not the
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: answer I expected from him.
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: Liam, No, it did catch me off guard, as oh,
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: I think it's the topic that will never die.
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: It was.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: It was the topic that Scott Robinson was pretty passionate
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: about pushing. Wasn't he presented to the board he wanted
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: new Zealand Rugby to keep an open mind and for
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: Dave Rennie to tackle it so confrontingly and it's first
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: press currence signals that's that's high on his agenda as well. Look, personally,
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: I don't think that's a fight he's going to win,
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: but I can understand his perspective that he wants the
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: best players available to win a World Cup and he
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: still believes that Brodie Retelck is one of us.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: Well, Brodie Retelick is only thirty four years of age.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: My understanding is that when he went up there he
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: signed a three year deal which is now up after
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: the season. So it's interesting. You know, maybe it was
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: more a signal to David kirkho was standing alongside him
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: that maybe not seeped him from overseas, but we should
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: be trying to get this bloke back in New Zealand
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: rugby because he's still got eighteen months he could give
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: us in the run to next year's World Cup. So look,
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: that was a fascinating development. Could you see Brody Retelick
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: back in New Zealand rugby?
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: Liam, I think it's the only way that he'll play
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: for the All Blacks again.
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: And if Dave Rennie wants him.
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: I think he could probably convince him to come home,
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: and it was I did watch David Kirk his reaction.
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: Has Reny pointedly suggested that their Retelic should be selected
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: from off shore and there were a few raised eyebrows.
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: It's fair to say so. I don't see any winning
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: that fight. But yeah, what by all means, let's see
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: him back in New Zealand rugby. I think going to
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: Japan definitely prolonged players' careers. Brodie Retelic's still doing his thing.
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: He's top triscrew in the Japanese comps ready mentioned, So
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: bring him home and let's see him available. New Zealand
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: actually has some pretty talented locks running around to provide
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: and among others, Scott Barrett's.
• 26:45
  Speaker 5: Exactly. So the depth at lock is certainly better than
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: it than it was.
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: There was grave fears weren't there and the post Sam
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: White Lock Brodie Retallic era. But I don't think anyone
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: would would turn down Retallic if he was available for selection,
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: just on the Scott Barrett scenario there. We also talked
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: about the captaincy at the Press Currents today. What do
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: you envision happening with your Black captaincy.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: It was a straight back from Dave Rennie, but it
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: certainly wasn't I would say a ringing endorsement. Wasn't Scott
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: Barrett is going to continue in this role. He called
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: him a fantastic player, said he's the current captain, said
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: he's keen to have a chat with him going forward.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: That didn't sound to me like he's definitely the captain.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: You know, he was far from a ringing endorsement. I
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: thought we may end up that he is the captain,
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: but at this point in time, it didn't sound like it.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: And to be honest, I doubt that he will be
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: the captain for that All Blacks test against France on
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: July fourth. I can't see it happening. What about you, Yeah, I.
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: Think there will be a change.
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: I think just as Sam came was Ian Foster's man
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: and Scott Robinson made a change when he came in,
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: I think Dave Rennie will do the same. Coaches tend to,
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: just as they do with their assistant coaches, select someone
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: that they prefer, that they know that they are aligned with.
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: Dave Rennie hasn't had, as far as I'm aware, a
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: great experience with Scott Barrett throughout his coaching career. They
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: were adverse series between the Chiefs and the Crusaders over
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: the years, and from my point of view, I think
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: it Woods relinquishing the captaincy would free Scott bart up.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: I think he was a reluctant captain from the outset,
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: and I think it would allow him to get back
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: to the film that had him placed among the world's
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: best locks.
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: So I think it would potentially be a win win scenario.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: Let's wrap this up, Leam, Just finally, if we go
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: back to the man that missed out on this job
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: rather than the one that has got it in Jamie Joseph,
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: We're too now for him obviously missed out on this
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: role the second time. He sort of shot for it
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: after missing out in twenty twenty three when Robertson was
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: appointed for twenty twenty four. We're two now for him.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: Does he surely he's not going to stick around the
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: Highlanders forever. It feels like he's got more international coaching
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: in him, but it doesn't seem like he'll probably ever
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: coach the All Blacks, to be honest, if his time now,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: and it feels like the window might have closed on him.
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: So is there a window in international rugby somewhere still
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: for Jammy Joseph?
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, potentially. Look, I think you're right. I don't think
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: he sticks around. The Highland is too long. And I
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: think this is a real kick in the guts because,
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: as you say, it's his second crack at it. He's
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: been you know, by all accounts gracious in defeats. Sent
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: Dave Rennie a text and you know, supported him and
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: wished him well. But he was the front runner early
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: on for this role. He has coached the All Blacks fifteen?
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: Does he really want to hang around and do that again?
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: I think he will certainly be putting the feelers out
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: there offshore and seeing what's available. But let me put
• 29:51
  Speaker 4: this to you, Elliott, Dave Rennie's contracts only for eighteen
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: months through to the World Cup.
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: Would he have liked longer?
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: And then does that potentially open the door for a
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: Joseph or somebody else, a Joe Schmidt, someone else potentially
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: waiting in the wings long runway? What happens if the
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: All Blacks loser World Cup, World Cup quarterfinal? You know,
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: I know we're shooting a little bit cart before the
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: horse here, but an eighteen month contract pretty rare, and
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: if they potentially lost the World Cup quarter final, maybe
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: Reny is out the door, you know. So coaching longevity
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: as we've seen what the All Blacks is not guaranteed either.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: No, it's not. I'm sure he would have wanted more.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: I'm sure Jamie Joseph that he got the job, would
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: have wanted more. My understanding is that, in an interesting break,
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: the negotiations were actually done with both parties before the
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: final interviews, so both parties knew the length of the
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: contract that they were getting, into the amount of money
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: they were getting paid and various other things. So that's
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: my understanding that they knew the term they were getting
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: and there wasn't really any regal room around it. We
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: saw the distraction that had happened last year or two
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: years ago now three years ago now when Scott Robertson
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: was appointed, Ian Foster was very upset with the way
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: that it played out, and so I can't see New
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: Zealand Rugby going through that process again. So I don't
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: think they'll make any decisions on it until whenever the
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: All Blacks are knocked out or lift the Rugby World
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: Cup next year in Australia. I think that's just the
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: probably accepted it that you know they'll have to go
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: with whoever comes through before then. You'd hate to see
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: Dave Rennie commit overseas or go somewhere else before then.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: I don't think he would do that. But you know,
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: this is a risk that they are taking by not
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: signing him too longer than the end of November or
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: thereabouts next year. So it's a fascinating we wrinkle in
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: the process that they're going to have to do things
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: differently once again. But it appears liam that this is
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: a risk that New Zealand Rugby is willing to take
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: that they'll have to go with whoever's available, be that
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: Rennie or someone else post the twenty seven World Cup.
• 32:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's probably the right way to go
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: about it.
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: It's just very short, tough, hit and run mission, isn't it,
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: To come into the hot seat, to go to South Africa,
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: to go on winning World Cup in Australia, to rebuild
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: the culture of the All Blacks, to get everyone on
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: the same page all in that short space of time,
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: and then to win a contract renewal.
• 32:30
  Speaker 5: So tough gig for Rennie.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: But it's a dream coaching role, wasn't it, And he
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: certainly started well today and we'll see how he goes
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: on the field comes.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: Your life, indeed we will, Liam Napi, thank you so
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: much for your time. Look forward to touching base again
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: on Monday with our next pod. We'll get some super
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: rugby tips etc. In the background, and we'll check the
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: mail bag and there's been some interesting feedback demanding your return.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: As I said at the top, So whoever you paid
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: to fire that through, thank you very much. But we
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: will touch base on Monday with another edition of the pod,
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: and who knows where the story's gone to you over
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: the next few days, So we'll watch the space but
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: Nape so I think so much your time. As always, no.
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: Worries, mate.
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: I'll be sure to bring some some heat for your
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: crusaders along the way, just to keep those Keep Hours
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: listeners happy.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: Like the Fijian heats that wilted the hurricanes.
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: Well look the state of that pitch, you know's there's
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: a lot to be said for that, and it's gonna
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: be great to see the Kinges bounce back against the
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: cards this week.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: We will see about that Lee and maybe Thank you
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: for your time. Mark Kelly, executive producer of Rugby Direct
• 33:33
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• 33:35
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• 33:36
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• 33:43
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