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Why Emotional Intelligence is a Must-Have Leadership Skill · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women job board and community.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: In this show, I'm honoured to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, set boundaries and balance, the challenges they've faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Shy away from the real talk?
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: No way.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Money struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance we cover it all.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TED Talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cosy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: This is the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Ready to find your perfect job?
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Search their website at investinginwomencouk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Now back to the show.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Hello, welcome to this week's episode of the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Today, I'm delighted to be chatting with Roz Hobley.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Roz is a high performance coach with Giant London, a leadership consultancy that specializes in unlocking the potential of people.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Roz works with leaders and their teams to help them work better together through coaching, training, workshops and mediation.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: A lot of Roz's work and impact is centered on strengthening communication and relationships the foundations of high performing work.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: And impact is centred on strengthening communication and relationships the foundations of high performing teams.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: And I know that today we're going to be talking all about emotional intelligence and why it is essential for businesses and people.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much, roz, for joining me today.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: It's a real delight to be back.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Liz love coming on this podcast.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: It's such an inspiring community that you're growing and the topics that you put out are so relevant, grounded, interesting and really tap into, I think, the needs and the growth of all of the women who you're serving.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: So it's a real delight thank you, ross.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: That's really kind of you to say, yeah.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: But yeah, we'll have to put all the links to our previous conversations, um, because we've had a few now, haven't we in the?
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Um in the show notes yeah, so I always take something away from our conversations.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: So what is emotional intelligence?
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: so emotional intelligence is about, at the core of it, noticing and understanding our own emotions and noticing and understanding other people's emotions and being intentional around how we respond to our emotions and to other people's emotions.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: That's what it is that's so.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Is it something we're born with?
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: we learn it so some of us will naturally have that as a strength and you and I did a little bit of personality work before.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: As feelers, you and I naturally have high empathy.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: We're good at putting ourselves in other people's shoes, so we will have that as a natural strength.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: But the good news is emotional intelligence costs nothing.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: It can be learned, it can be skilled, you can practice it, you can develop it.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Whether it is something that you have as a as part of your natural skill set or not, it's something that everybody can grow and develop does everybody need emotional intelligence good?
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: Good question.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: So, interestingly, emotional intelligence is now one of the key things that will set you apart when you're going for a new job or when you're in a role.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: If you've got two people who've got the same kind of skills and qualifications, emotional intelligence can be is often the key factor that will give you the extra, that extra bit of that extra bit of influence when you're in a team or when you're going for a role.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: And that's because emotional intelligence is the ability to be able to understand yourself when you're in really tricky situations and also to get the best out of those that you lead.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: So, practically speaking, it's looking at how you handle conflict, how you inspire people, how you lead change, how you handle a tricky conversation, how you talk to somebody when they're not actually performing at the level that they should be, how you talk to somebody when they're not actually performing at the level that they should be, how you handle yourself when things don't go well.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: And these are situations which we all face, personally and professionally.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so actually a lot of research has been done.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: The harvard business review I was reading.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: They've done a whole, a whole project on the business case for emotional intelligence and they said that 71% of employers opted to take the candidate who had a higher emotional intelligence because of their ability to influence and to lead and to be part of a positive growth trajectory.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: So I think emotional intelligence in in the economy that we've got now in the world that we've got now in the world that we've got now it gives you the ability to be the best version of yourself.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: So, yes, liz, I think it is a must have.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: So you said that me and you we did do some personality assessment.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: How would somebody listening to this find out, maybe, the level of emotional intelligence they currently have, maybe some areas where they're lacking as they know what to work on?
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: To this find out maybe the level of emotional intelligence they currently have and maybe some areas where they're lacking as they know what to work on.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: so there are some really simple um to-dos which anybody can do to grow and to and to kind of get a benchmark for their emotional intelligence.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: The first one is to ask yourself how in touch am I with my feelings Now?
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: For some people, for about half of the world, they'll be like, oh, this won't be something which will come naturally to them.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: But understanding your feelings, how you respond to different situations, is so important because that will govern how you interact with others, your ability to respond rather than to react.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: And emotions are contagious.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: If you think about, as a parent, when you are stressed or upset, that tangibly influences often the emotions of our children.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: And it's the same in a team, it's the same when we're working together.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: You know, know, I've had a number of bosses and many of them have been absolutely inspiring, real, real high achievers.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: But when my boss there were a couple of occasions was under severe stress that I wouldn't say it trickled down, it kind of flooded out into the team.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Emotions are contagious.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: So it's really important to be aware of how am I feeling and how am I communicating that, and the easiest way to do this is through either journaling a quick note every day what have my most powerful emotions been, what triggered it?
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: What would I like to have done differently?
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: And you can even just take three minutes a day to do that.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Or and that's especially good if you're somebody who likes to reflect, perhaps with a preference for introversion, or if you're more an external person, like you and I.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: You might have a partner, you might have a trusted friend, you might have a coach.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: You'd be like.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: You know, I actually had a really tough time.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: I found that I lost it with this person.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: I've been really upset about such and such, and then it's looking at the underneath what triggered it?
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: What can I learn about it?
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: How would I have handled that differently?
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: So it's first of all, understanding myself, my emotions, and communicating that to others.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: If you're bold, you can also go out and ask those closest to you for some feedback and there are some really good questions which I can share where you're going to your team, to those who spend a lot of time with you, to say I would love your feedback because, liz, we've all got blind spots we have, yeah, we have, and's so chatty about being broke, but how do you ensure then that that feedback is honest feedback?
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: So that's so good.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: So people can read people and it's really important that you set the tone and say look, feedback.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: You know, traditionally feedback can be quite a critical thing or negative.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: I am learning about myself.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: I want to be the best mum, I want to be the best employee, I want to be the best leader of this team and we've spent a lot of time together and I want to grow and so I am going to value, appreciate and act on your feedback.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: I want you to know I'm not going to be defensive with whatever feedback you give me and I will act on it so you can give a nice kind of warm opening which builds trust and which builds the confidence that you really genuinely want and are going to act on this feedback and then, yeah, I think the thing you said was so important was the defensive, and I I think we all have a tendency, don't we?
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: to get defensive.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: So how do you check that?
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Have you got any tips on putting that defense mechanism in check?
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so first of all, thinking, what does it look like for me, roz, what does it look like for you, liz, to be responsive rather than defensive?
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: So if I have feedback around how I could have done something differently perhaps I wasn't particularly clear on something or I could have so I'm not great with conflict.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: That's one of my growth areas.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: That's been some feedback that I've had that I need more challenge to my clients.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: I prepare myself mentally.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: This feedback is going to help me grow.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: It's going to make me stronger and actually we all need support and challenge.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Challenge is absolutely critical for our growth, for us to be the best versions of ourselves.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: So I think it is that mental preparation that I'm going to be responsive, I'm not going to be defensive.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: What does that mean?
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: What does that mean from a body language point of view when I'm with that person?
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: What does it mean?
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: How can I positively prepare when I go into that meeting?
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: If it's my partner or somebody that I'm super close to, who knows me very, very well, you know, how can I, how can I prepare and how can I preempt what I, what might come up and choose?
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: What am I going to choose to do differently, because it's hard to change our feelings, but the great thing is, we have agency over our actions and over what we choose to do next.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: So it's about choice and it's about intentionality.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: So what's the business case for businesses investing in upskilling staff in emotional intelligence?
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: it's a really good question, so I was doing some specific research ahead of this um, so I've got some stats from the Harvard Business Review did a really big piece on it.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: So the business case for emotional intelligence is it is proven to be the strongest predictor of performance.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: People with high emotional intelligence are proven to have performance which is twice as high as those who don't, because they have the ability to stay calm under pressure, to resolve conflict, to respond to their co-workers with empathy.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: They have the emotional intelligence to navigate change, to be able to understand what people are worried about.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: So there's there's a huge, huge piece around performance.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Organizations that have leaders with high emotional intelligence deal with change 40 percent better, especially in a crisis, because guide their teams with clarity and with empathy.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: They have the ability to bring calm.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: When there's panic, they have the ability to have a rational, positive, coordinated response.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: There's also some really powerful stats around employee engagement, lower turnover and profitability.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: Emotional intelligence is shown to positively impact all of these.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Mckinsey did some research last year looking at organizations where emotional intelligent leaders have been able to bring in diverse and diverse policies, create environments where they're more inclusive, and these workplaces were 35% more likely to achieve above average financial returns because what they're doing is creating a place where people feel safe where there is trust, where there is connection, where there is empathy, because we're all human and I think that we can work together without bringing emotions into it.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: You're missing a huge, huge piece if you do that.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: It was really interesting doing this, looking at some of the stats around engagement and profitability and performance that's really encouraging, isn't it?
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: and it's it's good to hear and it's nice actually to know that there is such a positive business case for companies to invest in this.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: So how you know if you've done your feedback, you've got some feedback.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: You sort of know the score.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: You know where you are on the emotional intelligence scale, what you're lacking.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: How do you increase your emotional intelligence?
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: what you're lacking?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: How do you increase your emotional intelligence?
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: So it's probably good to take um.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: To take a tangible example here, let's say you are, you've got a team or you're working with others, and that you know you have a tendency to.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: You've got high standards, you know things should be done, you've got a lot happening and so, rather than passing things on to others or letting others on the team get on with it, you have a tendency to micromanage, and this has perhaps come up in the feedback that you've done.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: You've said look, guys, I want to know what's your feedback on me.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: You know, tell me everything yeah, and a lot of people.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: This might be a lot of feedback for a lot of people, mightn't it?
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: and the feedback's come back.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Look, roz, we can tell that you really care, but actually we sometimes feel that you're a bit controlling.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: You're chasing me when I haven't had the chance to get it done.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: I feel that you're always kind of following up.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: I don't feel empowered.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: Basically, you're being a bit of a micromanager, yes, and so let's say, you've had some feedback, whether it's around micromanagement or avoiding conflict, um, or perhaps putting your opinion forward, so shutting other voices down.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: You've had a bit of feedback which has been really impactful.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: You know that this is perhaps a natural tendency that you have, um, so the key thing is then how do you take this awareness into action?
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: And this requires intentionality.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: It's not going to happen by mistake, and it's for you maybe to look at with a friend, a coach, a colleague, to say, okay, where are going to be the moments in my day, in my week, where are the predictable moments where this, this tendency to micromanage, is going to be coming up, and how am I going to, what am I going to do differently?
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: And actually to write that down, to agree it, to have some accountability, liz.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: And that's where having a trusted friend or a colleague who can follow up with you on.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: This is so important Because we've all got natural tendencies and, under pressure, we revert back to them really quickly.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: So it's an ongoing journey of what are my triggers for this microbe managing.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: How am I going to handle it and then, at the end of the month, going back to those same people who gave you the feedback and be like, okay again, this is a safe place.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Please be honest with me.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I want to take this in a way that is not defensive and that is going to be positive.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: How have I done on the micromanaging this last month?
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: And at this point I'd really encourage more specificity with your questions.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: So, where did you feel I was better?
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Where did you feel I was better?
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Where did you feel that I was still following up too much?
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Have you any other feedback around?
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: What's changed or any feedback for me?
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: And just allowing people to share that and I would encourage you to get it from a few people, because that enables you to look at trends and patterns- yeah, if you've got a natural tendency, say, to micromanage, will you ever be able to fully suppress that?
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: No, no, our tendencies don't change, but our ability to manage them is what's really really crucial, and we've all got tendencies.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: So the underneath the micro management will be will be a desire for something to be right, for it to be high quality and for it to be the best it can possibly be, and potentially also a real drive for team performance, a sense of pride in the team, a sense of we've got so much potential I want us to be doing really well.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: So underneath that micro management is the pride, a sense of what's right, a sense of wanting to be the best that we can be.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: And so the micro management is almost the, that's the, that's the action which is coming to the surface because of the perfectionist tendency so I mean in your role.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: I know we're digressing, but in your role are you going to teams?
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Surely that pride in the work and getting your team on board with that is a good thing, but maybe it's how you harness that that's something and for some leaders they can be rationally right and relationally wrong.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: They can be absolutely right.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: You have not met the deadline that we set.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, why is that?
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: The project's gonna suffer or I'm not gonna be able to recruit this person in time.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: We had this deadline set, but it's.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: But they might be undermining the relationship in that moment and not responding to the other person's emotions, perspective, challenges that they may have faced.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: There may be some very legitimate reasons as to why that deadline wasn't met.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: And so, while you have a quest and a desire for everybody to do really well and for the team to have a very high performance we're human beings, not just human doings and it's at that point where the emotional intelligence piece is really important, because you could undermine the trust, the respect, the relationship that you have with that person.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they might have missed the deadline, but if there was a really good reason for that, how you handle that situation can either build influence in your role as a colleague or a manager, or you can lose influence.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: And if, when you start to lose influence and trust, that's when the communication and the relationships break down, to lose influence and trust, that's when the communication and the relationships break down and communications and relationships are absolutely essential for strong families, strong teams, strong friendships that's really interesting.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: I just wondered that.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so how does emotional intelligence?
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: If you then you know you've done the work, you know where you're getting your feedback, how can it help you get the best from others if you're leading a team?
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: really good question.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: So we're all complete individuals, aren't we?
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Uh, which is just so wonderful the diversity of people in our teams, on this planet, in our friends and family circles.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: And so the thing is to understand what I need from you, liz, when we're working together will be different from what you need from me, and it's about taking the time to say what are what?
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: What do you need from me to do your job really well?
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: What do I need to know about you to get the best from you?
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: What are the key, what are the key pieces of information that I need to be aware of when we're working together, and that might be that might be really practical, or it might be um ways of bringing challenge or giving feedback, but it's taking the time to be incredibly intentional with each person to understand how do you like to work and also, how does your role fit into your bigger, your bigger love for life and your career ambitions.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Because, if you can appreciate, imagine being in a role where your boss knows your context, knows what your goals are and is for you, that is such a truly inspiring and encouraging place to be.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: It takes a lot of time to do this, but it is so worth it.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: I'm reading a brilliant book called Radical Candor at the minute.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: I've heard of that.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Tell me I haven't read it, but is it good?
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: absolutely brilliant and it's by a woman work who's um a mum of twins and she was in the top top team at Google.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: She worked with Sheryl Sandberg.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's giving the business case for why you need to understand your people.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: And you need to understand your people because when you know them and you know how to fast track getting the best out of them and you also know where they're heading and what their goals are, that gives you permission to say, hey, I'm giving you this feedback because I know that you can, because I believe that you can be even better than this.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: It gives you agency.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: It gives you a whole precious set of personality information to act on, to be able to encourage, inspire, support and challenge each individual and we're all different, but the great thing is, humour is also quite predictable.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: So when you've got an idea of somebody's personality, how they like to work, it's then really precious data for you to act on, and it's unlikely that that person is going to change once you know their trajectory.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: They've shared with you how to get the best out of them.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: You've then the onus is then on you as the co-worker or the boss, to be like right, you know how can I link this to our goals, to our performance.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: This person's brilliant with people gosh, they'd be great on that collaboration piece or influencing that stakeholder.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: It's looking at the performance of the team and being able to pick up people's different skills and their ambitions with where they want to go with the big picture.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I like that, I think that is, isn't?
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: It's having being able to take a step back as a manager and seeing the bigger picture and then how people sort of fit into that and supporting them yeah, yeah, exactly that, exactly that.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: So if you're listening to this and somebody you know wants to train or skill in their emotional intelligence, how would they do that?
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Or how would a company support their employees to do that?
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: Great question.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: So there are a number of different ways.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: First, listening to podcasts like this, actually just going away and thinking about your own emotions, your strengths, how you're responding to others, how you can be more aware of others.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Practicing active listening, where you're just really taking in the person in front of you, responding to the cues that they're giving you.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: All of these things we can do in our own time and cost nothing.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: So that's, that's brilliant, that's a great first step and when you're preparing for interviews again, you know these is these are really practical, positive steps that you can take that will help you, um, that will help differentiate you from the other candidates who are going forward.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the second thing that you can do there are a number of brilliant organizations, including giant, who I for who specialize in building emotional intelligence, understanding your leadership style and how to get the best from others with you previously.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's created exactly for that for individuals, to accelerate self-awareness, accelerate understanding and appreciation of others, of diversity in the team, and it gives you it's incredible, it almost gives you a little handbook on how to get the best from different personality types, and I it's a real joy, it's one of my best would you recommend everybody in the team does that test them oh gosh, absolutely.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: And then you can look at the team dynamics and that's where you have these kind of jaw drop moments where people realize, oh gosh, that's why we're rubbing up against each other or that's why we're working well together.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Or, yes, I can absolutely see that person's really on the detail.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: They're present, orientated, they're great with details and systems and processes, but they're not so great on the bigger picture of vision ideas piece.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: It gives you a set of um data and personality intelligence to see the different interactions in the team.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: And then you can overlay that with change, with conflict, with vision, uh, with budgeting, with risk, almost anything.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, bring in this.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: So, so the something like the five voices is fantastic, um.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: And then I'm I'm actually launching a 12-month leadership program with a dear friend and colleague, kate Davies, who is um.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: She's currently coach of the year.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: She's fantastic.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: We work very closely together and we're running a 12-month program called leadership and that is starting.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: It's starting in in the spring specifically for people who've got a really good amount of professional experience under their belt but who want to be intentional about upskilling, to get to the next level and actually building your emotional intelligence is one of the is one of the key modules that we'll be looking at in that.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: So how can people find you, connect with you, maybe learn more about the leadership programme when it launches?
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Thank you, so the best thing is just to go LinkedIn.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Ros Hobley, I'm on LinkedIn, all the details will be there.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Connect with me directly there, and we've also got a website, which is wwwlondongiantorg.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Brilliant, lovely, well.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, roz, for joining me today.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: It's a real pleasure to chat with you.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Liz.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work it Like A Mum podcast.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: You can also follow my recruitment site Investing in Women on on LinkedIn, facebook and Instagram.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.