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THROWBACK THURSDAY! (Dark Truth Behind "The Boy In The Box") · Cosmic Peach

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Throwback Thursday.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: So these are some of the oldies, but goodies.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: The classics, and they are some of the episodes that
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: are probably in the back of the catalog that you
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: haven't managed to listen to yet. So just a warning,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: some of my thoughts, feelings, opinions may have changed since
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: the recordings of these episodes. Doesn't make them any less interesting.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: So as an evolving human being, I may say something
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: in these episodes that I don't necessarily agree with today,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: but these episodes are the classics, and I just thought
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I would do a little something fun for us. So
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: welcome and enjoy Throwback Thursday. All right, everyone, thank you
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: for listening to another episode of Cosmic Peach podcast. We
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: have the one, the only, Brian Jason from the Cleveland
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Swiel podcast joining us again.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Brian, how are you?
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: I am fantastic and I am so glad to be
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: back because I love you and your audience so much
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: and that's why I love being here.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: I tell you what. I got so many messages on
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: our dock the ripper up.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Did you Yes?
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: And a lot of people checked out the podcumentary as well.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: Good good. I watched the podcumentary, and just so everybody
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: knows that was I didn't know that was happening when
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: we originally recorded that episode, but I'm glad you didn't.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: I was very surprised at how well everything came out.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: And I'm really proud of you. I think I could
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: speak for everybody in the family when I say we're
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: very proud of you for starting a YouTube channel. It
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: looks great. I'm looking forward to seeing what's coming. Been
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: checking it out. I'm subscribed. I hope everybody else subscribes.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: I want to be able to subscribe to the Cleveland
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Schwill YouTube channel. If you ever did decided cancer, get
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: off the pot over there, Brian, you need to get
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: your YouTube channel going.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, I'm having enough trouble keeping the podcast
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: going weekly right now with all this stuff, but I
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: think eventually that's in the cards. I mean, I'm not
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: taking anything off the table. Things are getting easier and
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: easier as far as like I've learned to edit so
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: much better, and just the production values going up, and
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: the guests are getting better and the audience is growing. So,
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: you know, the only thing I'll say, and the fortunate
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: thing about us discussing things today is we're both extremely
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: good looking people, and when people come back to watch this,
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: they'll be like, oh, my goodness, I'm just so glad
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: I watched the documentary because I mean, I don't know
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: what the topic was that they were talking about, but
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: I know, damn well, those are good looking people. I'm
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: looking at you.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: You can't beat a Hamilton. I swear we have the
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: best looking family.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Oh, we do it. I actually wore my turtle neck today. Oh.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, very professional.
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: It's so professional, and I know many people are impressed
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: with it. I got it at a thrift store, but
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: it's still very impressive.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: It is very impressive. Did you get a haircut too?
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: Looks like you gotta do.
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: I've been changed it up a little bit lately, but
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: I am scheduled to get my next haircut in a
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: few weeks.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: So leave the top long. It looks good.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been doing that. I've been trying to. I
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: don't want it too too short, you know, I don't
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: want to look military.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: No. But okay, So the listeners don't know yet why
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: we've teamed up, but it is to discuss the infamous
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: mystery of the boy in the box.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, we're discussing the boy in the Box that
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: actually went under a couple of different names. I think
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: they started calling it America's Child at one point. But
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: it's interesting because, like it was shortly after Jack the Ripper,
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: I think, like us recording Jack the Ripper, not the
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: release of Jack the Ripper, like we recorded Jack the Ripper,
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: and you're like, yeah, let's let's come up with another topic.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: Since we've come up with since we discussed this, there
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: have been so many breakthroughs in this case. Guys. When
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: I start going over it's almost like it was kind
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: of freaky and not even coincidental. I mean, we're talking
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: about a cold case that's sixty five years old, and
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: by the end of this you're going to know some
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: very good theories, and you're going to know the boy's identity,
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: you're going to know the boys parents' identities. I mean,
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: this is stuff that people have been waiting on for
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: sixty five years, people with their whole lives researching this
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: case religiously and never got this far. So what you're
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: about to hear and I have a very good painting
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: of what happened, I think, and even the events that
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: happened afterwards in the investigation, I have a lot of
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: information to share.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: So there were even police and detectives who retired and
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: kept working on the case because they were so dedicated
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: to finding out who this little boy was.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: Yep. Yeah, because when you start learning more and more
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: about this At first, you know, they're like, this should
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: be open and shot. We'll find something pretty quick. And
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: then as it went on, they start relating this child
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: like they're they're kind of like comparing them to their
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: own kids. They're like, man, nobody's claimed this kid, you know,
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: and they grow this connection to them. They start to
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: pay for a burial, plot is donated, and eventually memorials
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: are put up in both the location that he's found
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: and in the at the cemetery. There's a I believe
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: there's a sign there too about the whole case and
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: just these connections that these investigators had, and even some
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: people that weren't part of the police department have these
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: lifelong connections to this case because they just get so
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: drawn in. It's just such a mystery. And I'm going
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: to talk about some of them too. One's pretty interesting
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: and it kind of goes along a paranormal line, and
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: even I was like, man, this is just when you
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: hear how I tie this together, You're going to start going, man,
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: this like this is crazy. This is insane how some
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: of this stuff comes.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: No, I know, I know. So this may be the
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: first time we agree on something. We're gonna make cosmic
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: teach history today. I know we may actually agree on this.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: Well, that would be crazy because the one thing that
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: we like to do is we completely research these topics separately,
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: and we don't reveal what we're going to say to
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: each other or what we found until we're talking. So
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: you see, so the audience is experiencing that in real
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: time with us.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: There's no script, no, never, never, even when we're fighting.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: It just makes it even even more. I have to say, though,
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: I did watch a little video on YouTube of a guy,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: an elderly guy, and he said that he remembers going
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: to the supermarket with his mom and they had just
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: pictures of the dead boy's face all over the supermarket
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: and he said he thinks that was the first time
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: they ever used actual pictures of the corpse to post
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: all over town. And that was, in it of itself
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: super eerie and creepy.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: Well, what happened is when nobody came forward, one of
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: the things that they started to do is they still
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: have the body of the boy. So what they do
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: is they prop him up, they dress him in cloaks,
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: and they're like, someone has to clean this child. Like
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: they've already checked to see if you know, one of
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: the old missing person's cases, he would match the identity
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: of any past missing persons. And that's not really coming
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: to any fruition. So all of a sudden, they go,
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: we're gonna print two hundred and seventy five thousand of
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: these basically pictures of this boy like this with the
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: description and how we found him, where we found him,
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: you know, weight the scars, how his hair was just cut,
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: how his nails are just cut, he's firstly washed, all
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: this stuff, and they're so they post these pictures in
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: hopes and it's him dead, dressed in clothes, propped up,
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: and they put one in with every single utility gas
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: utility bill in the city. Way, yep, that's what they did.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: And when they actually came up with this crime scene,
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: when they originally scoured the crime scene, they brought two
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: hundred and seventy five police officers and detectives, and they
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: combed the entire area for like anything they could find,
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: because this area was actually used in the town as
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: like a dump, so people would dump garbage there all
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: the time. And it's really strange. Oh, I actually have
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: the actual number. So the Philadelphia Inquirer printed four hundred
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: thousand flyers with the boy's likeness and put it with
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: every gas bill. It was four hundred thousand, and that
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: started leading to some people calling in, but it didn't
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: lead to any real information.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Crazy, I have that it was February twenty third, nineteen
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: fifty seven, when a college student noticed the boy in
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: the box for the first time.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, do you know the story. So you're talking about
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: John Prision or Paurosnick, and he's a junior in high school. Okay,
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: but depending on who you talk to, he's eighteen or
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: nineteen years old. Now what people don't really tell. And
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: I dug into old records and old like articles that
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: were written about it. And his family was from Poland
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: and they were immigrants and they had a strong distrust
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: for police. So he comes across this body because he's
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: checking his illegal hunting traps in the woods. That's where
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: he is okay, okay. Across the street, so we're painting
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: a good picture here. It's a Catholic wayward house for
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: young girls up through high school age. That's going to
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: play into when the body's found the second time. So
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: across the street you have this Catholic school for girls.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: He's got his hunting trips in the woods, strong distrust
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: for police because he came from communist Poland, where they
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: basically will come at you with the force of God
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: at times, and if they need to set up a patsy,
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: they're going to set up a patsy. Okay. So he
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: doesn't want to be the first one to say that
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: he's found anything. He sees this boy laying in the
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: box and he convinces himself it's a doll. He's like,
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: that's a doll, but he's so freaked out about it.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: He gets home, he doesn't even tell his parents. They
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: find out that on February twenty third, John found this
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: child because police came back and knocked on his door.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: Then he tells them that. So the person who actually
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: discovers this child, his name's Frederick Benoihnsis. That's how I'm
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: pronouncing it. I could be pronouncing it wrong. Okay, So
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: he's the first one to report it to police. Strangely enough,
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: they're like, what are you doing here? Well, he claims
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: he's so he's on his way to uh. I think
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: he said he's on his way like check his animal
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: traps or something, or he saw a rabbit run into
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: the woods. But a lot of people know that this
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: wayward school of girls is where Frederick would show up
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: to spy on the girls across the street.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: He's a petal.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: Well, he is. He's like in college. He's in college,
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: and you know, it's February and it's cold, and he's
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: trying to figure out a way to warm himself up.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: But he's there. He's spying on the girls across the street.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: But while he's doing it, he comes across this boy
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: in the box. So he calls police, and the first
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: police officer to come is this guy. His name's Elmer Palmer.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: All right. Now, Quickly Elmer realizes this is not a doll, okay,
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: this is a child in this box. Well, across the street,
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: a nun can see a police officer through there, and
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: she's like, what's going on. She becomes curious, so she
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: comes walking over and next thing you know, she's on
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: her knees praying next to the child because she knows
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: that this boy has been murdered. And within the matter
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: of minutes, you have two police detectives, five police officers,
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: some of them coming out and saying things like, you
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: know that we knew right away that this child had
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: been badly beaten. And one of the police officers says,
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: it still looks like he has the fear on his
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: face in death that he must have seen in his
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: last minutes. That's the way he interpreted it, right, So
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: how do they find this kit? So they find this boy.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: He's in a box and he's on the side of
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: what's called suske Suskuhana Road, and they can tell that
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: there's something.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: It's a J. C. Penny's box that a Bascinett came.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: In mm hmm, yes, that they tracked down later, they
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: tracked this information down. There's a lot of interesting links
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: with this box. They're actually see back then with this box.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: And it's it's funny because they call him the boy
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: in the box. But as I go into like some
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: of the things that happen in this story, you're going
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: to realize that the boy in the box are two
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: separate things in my opinion, But they they find the
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: boy in the box and the box, they're like, if
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: we find out where this box came from, we're going
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: to track down the individual. They find nine of the
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: eleven bascinets that are purchased at J. C. Penny. They
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: find the people that bought them, and there's no connection
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: to any of them. Okay, to any of these bacinets
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: soul now at that time, though, nobody's using credit cards,
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: so they had to like figure out through sales receipts
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: and people paying cash and there. It took a long
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: time to track all these people down, so there's two
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: that are never really discovered. When they find the boy
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: inside the box, they find him on the side of
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: the road, not too far from the road. His esophagus
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: has this brown sludge in it, and at the autopsy
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: they figure out that this brown sledge and his esophagus
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: and stomach that he had eaten about three hours before
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: he died, and this brown sledge is a baked beans,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: baked beans, and he's freshly groomed. He's got this recent haircut,
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: like very recent haircut. Some of the hairs are still
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: on his body.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Pruney fingers like he had just been soaking in the tub.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: Exactly, pruney fingers like he'd just been soaking in the tub.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: Freshly cut fingernails and actually some of the fingernail clippings
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: are still on his body, which is kind of strange.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Bruises all over. He had suffered sense of physical abuse.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: They figured out he's malnourished. I mean, this boy, they
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: know he's between four and six years old at this time,
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: but he's like only thirty pounds, right. They knew he's
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: three foot six inches tall, and you already mentioned that
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: his hands are kind of pruned up and his feet
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: are pruned up like they've been in water. But they
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: can tell he's malnurised because his ribs are visible, like
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: he's just really skinny. He's very underweight for boy that
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: age between four and six. And they figured out his
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: age mostly through his dental record, not records, but just
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: looking at his teeth, seeing that he had all baby
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: teeth and that's how the teeth were coming in. That
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: was kind of how they figured out his age. But
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: you know, so he's not reported. They find him on
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: February twenty fifth, and it's kind of like a rainy
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: day and he's wrapped in this plaid blanket. It's a
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: flannel blanket. It has this like it's interesting because it's
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: washed recently. The blanket. They know it's been washed recently,
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: and it's got this Native American pattern on it and
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: it's like you had originally that you know, they find it.
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: It find out that this box comes from J. C. Penny.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: It's for a basnette, and it's like I had brought up.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: I have a quote here from one of the policemen
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: who's looking at this boy. It's like, even in death,
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: there looked to be a lot of pain on the
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: child's face, even possibly even fear. And that comes from
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: Patrolman Weinstein, who was the second patrolman on site. He's
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: looking at this boy and so you can just kind
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: of picture how this boy looked. But he's freshly washed too.
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: M h. He's clean. But they were having a lot
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: of trouble determining when he actually died because it's February
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: in Pennsylvania and it's so cold, they can't determine how
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: long he's been out there. Right, really really strange, and
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: they actually thought you know, this is going to be
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: an open and shut case. Somebody's gonna come forward soon,
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: or we're gonna be able to match this to a
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: recently disappeared kid. And then they're looking at the body
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: somewhere and they go, oh, my god, he's got scars
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: on his ankle, on his groin. He's got an L
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: shaped scar under his chin. And what was very uncommon
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: about young children at that time is when you get
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: when you got vaccines when you were in the fifties,
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: they used to specialized gun that was pretty hard on you,
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: and they'd shoot the vaccine in you and you'd end
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: up with a scar from getting the vaccine. He had
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: no vaccine scars on him, so it's really strange that
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: he has these like surgical scars on his body, like
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: he's gone to sit a bunch of doctor a vaccinating star,
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: especially for polio, which was a huge thing back think
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: because so many kids are getting folio.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's you know, I bet your mom had this.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: My mom had one. It looked like a circle, but
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: within the circle there was like twenty six sticks. You know,
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: it was like a little So they were looking for
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: a jab that looked like that, and they even I
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: found that. Let's see here, where is it. They went
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: around to schools, They went around to hospitals, checking footprints.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: The kid had never been enrolled in his school. There
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: was no nothing led back with the footprints. I mean,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: they legitimately tried every avenue to try to identify this kid,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: and they just couldn't find anything.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I have some stuff about some of the
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: more in depth details that they took. So they take
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: fingerprints of this boy, and a guy named Bill Kelly
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: is the guy who takes the fingerprints, and I'll get
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: into some of him later. Cases gaining major media attention
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: by this point too, So we already talked about four
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand flyers that go out. The Philadelphia Inquirers definitely
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: confused at this point. Like we put out all these pictures,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: People are writing articles. People put out articles that in
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: periodic are pediatric journals, just hoping that like the doctor
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: that could have performed some of these surgeries, these weird
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: surgery scars that he has on them, Like one of
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: these doctors would come forward and be like, no, I
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: worked on this kid, you know, I worked on his
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: under his chin, or I worked on his foot or
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: where they saw these scars. Nobody ever comes forward on that.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: They either never read it or refuse to come forward.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: They comb over the crime scene with like I said,
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: two hundred and seventy police and they find a bunch
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: of stuff, and all this stuff took a considerable amount
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: of time for them to start to figure out what's
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: happening here, you know, Like so they don't know what
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: it is. But they find this blue corduroy cap with
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: a leather it's a brown leather strap in the back,
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: and it's like brand new, So they I have a
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: whole thing about how they trace this back, Like they
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: it's close enough to the body where they go, this
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: could be something. But again, this is also a dumping
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: ground for the town, so it's like, am I picking
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: up somebody's trash or does this have to be Find
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: this white handkerchief with the letter G in the side
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: of it. Across the street they find a dead cat
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: wrapped in a blanket with like some kind of stab
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: wound in it. So they're thinking, is this connected, you know,
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: is it somebody sick killing cats, killing kids, killing whatever
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: it can? They find some child's shoe, but then they
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: realize that the shoe and shirt that they find that
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: are for children are just way too big for him.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: It wouldn't have fit him. But at first they're like,
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: is this his? You know, it's kind of new, it's
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: washed too, Like, what's it doing here? So they're finding
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: all this weird step stuff and they find some child scarf.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: Now they got to like figure out what the heck, like,
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: where is all this stuff coming from? Where? What are
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: we going to do with it?
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, what the fuck? Now they have a dead cat,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: a scarf, and a cap. What are they gonna do?
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: How do you even begin to put that puzzle together?
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: You don't, So everything's taking a long time. They go
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: to the hat shop, which is they find out it's
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: made at this place called Philadelphia's Robin's Bald Eagle Hat
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: and Cap Company, and they made twelve of those hats,
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: but they don't keep a record of their purchased products.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: But there's this woman by the counter. She's younger, she's
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: in her early twenties. Her name's Hannah Roberts, and she's like, oh,
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: I know who bought that hat. I remember that hat
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: because we specially ordered or had to put that leather
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: strap on the back. Of the hat just for him.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: So it was the only hat that they had made
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: like that. And she sees a picture the boy and
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: she goes, oh, no, that looks a lot like him.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: Like this boy looks a lot like the man that
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: came in here. And he's you know, got blue eyes,
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: and he's blonde hair and all this stuff. And police
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: end up finally never being able to track this guy down,
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: but like they had an idea and like they're thinking,
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: this might be our killer, you know, like he's got
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: this hat, and she like I said, I think she
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: said that the guy was in his early thirties or something. Yeah,
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: But but it doesn't like end up coming to any conclusion.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: There's no conclusions that can be made from it. But
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: then you have this Bill Kelly who I talked about,
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: and you talked about the fingerprints and the footprints. And
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: what's really interesting about Bill Kelly who did this. He's
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: not paid. He completely volunteers his time and for an
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: entire decade, he went everywhere all the places you're talking about,
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: for ten year or straight and tried to match took
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: a magnifying glass, tried to match the feet or the
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: fingerprinted any records either at hospitals for birth or schools
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: or he's so he's sifting through, you know, old hospital records,
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: homes for unwed mothers. He goes to just in case,
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: like a woman went there, you know, and they had
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: a record or the child there and to no avail.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: Like he even moved on to thinking, Okay, this could
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: be the child of immigrants. So he starts checking out
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: old passport photos to try to figure out who and
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: he does this for ten years. Ten years he did
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: this and found nothing, finds nothing, and it's just like
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: extremely sad, you know, like he had such an attachment
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: to the to the case and to the kid and
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: just in his mind and he never comes up with anything.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: So it's like you said, it's like dead end after
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: dead end after dead end. And that's obvious because nobody
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: could figure this out for sixty five years.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Well did you come across the psychic that got involved?
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: Of course I did.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Did you come across the circus freaks?
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: No? No, I didn't.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: You didn't.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: No.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: They thought that there was like this traveling circus and
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: these people had like ten kids, and one of the
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: kids could have been the boy in the box, and
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: they just discarded him and killed him. But that never
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: let anywhere but the psychic. What do you know about
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: the psychic.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: Well, there was a guy, his name was Remington Bristow,
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: and he was actually an investigator for the Medical Examiner's
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: office and he is so obsessed with this case that
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: he actually takes a thousand dollars of his own money
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: upfront in the fifties and he's like, I'm putting this
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: up for reward money. We need to find out who
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: did this, and I'm going to put my money where
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: my mouth is. And a thousand dollars in the fifties
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: is quite a chunk of change. You know, people are
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: purchasing cars with that type of money back then. And
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: he even writes an article where he's like this boy,
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: he you know, the parents might have accidentally killed.
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: This child, and you know, maybe they're just too scared
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: to come forward. And you know, if that's the case,
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: and they didn't have money for burial, so they just
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: put it up.
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: But please, we need to figure this out. Come forward
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: with it. You know, he writes this whole article. Well,
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: nothing's getting him anywhere. So he is actually the one
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: who hires and consults a psychic. Now this is where
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: things get interesting. Did you know what he gave that psychic.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: The psychic goes, you have to give me something from
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: the site the box. He gives her two staples from
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: the box.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Oh wow.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: So he goes to the crime he gets two staples
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: from that box, the bass net box. She comes back
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: and she goes and this is this ties into my
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: personal theory, and I'll disclose it at the end. She goes,
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: go about a mile and a half or somewhere close
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: to the crime scene itself, and you're going to come
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: across a house. Now I have the description she gives him,
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: and I want to make sure I find it because
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: it's very interesting. The psychic says, let me see if
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: I can find it. Well, she's like, there's gonna be
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: a house that you can You're gonna come across and
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: it's got a pond, it's got a wood railing, and
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: there's like a little cabin in the back. Okay mm hmmm.
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: And he's he's like, okay, well I'll drive until I
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: find a house like that. So Remington Bistro is driving
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: and he comes across this house and it's really interesting
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: because he instantly he's like, this has to be the house.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: He sees this cabin in the back, he sees what
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: else did he see? He saw that that pond, he
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: saw the wooden railing. Now he gets to this house
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: and the house is this of this man. His name's
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Arthur Nicoletti, and Arthur Nicoletti had it has a foster family,
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: like foster children. Anywhere between like five to ten foster
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: kids are in this house at any given time. And
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: he has an adopted daughter there. And I have the
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: name of his daughter written down because this paint, this
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: all comes to play, comes into play later and I
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: have to find it. But so he finds the house.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: He's talking to this Arthur Nicoletty, and he's just getting
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: this weird strange five you know, like he's got this
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: feeling in his gut that something's off with this family. Yeah,
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: they have all these foster kids, the adopted daughter, just
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: a weird dynamic. He finds out that the adopted daughter
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: has had four children already, all our dead, three still born,
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: and one dies in an electric train accident at a
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: department store at like four years old.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Listen, that's gonna be red flag numbers two for me.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: First stuff, this psyche describing the house and then it
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: being a real house, and then just so happens, the
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: person who lived there is fostering ten kids and one
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: of them has had a record of four dead kids.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and all these children like are coming out of
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: this like adopted daughter who's very young, and he just
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: gets this feeling, like Remington gets this feeling they're covering
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: something up here, Like what are they covering up? I
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: don't know, but I know in my gut something's off.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: It just doesn't seem right, you know. And Arthur Nicoletty's
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: married and uh so eventually, you know, you fast forward
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: a little bit and Remington's like, you guys, get the
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: detectives have to get over there and figure out what's
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: going on. And he finally convinces some police and detectives
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: to go over there, but you know, nothing that they
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: have pretty good alibis and they're not finding anything like
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: out of place. So Remanan's like, this is bullshit. And
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: that's actually when he hired the psychic. It's after detectives
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: have been there, and he's like he goes to Arthur
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: Nicoletti later in the eighties and he's like, you go
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: take a polygraph test, and I'm going to tell you
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: why he says this. Right, So, when they go to
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: leave the house or I'm talking to Nicoletti, family decides
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: they're going to leave their house, they're going to have
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: an estate sale. They're gonna have like this moving sale.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: He shows up and at that estate sale, he finds
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: an identical blanket to the one that's found on the boy,
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: and he finds the bassinette that would have come in
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: the J. C. Pennybox. Yeah, So Remington Bistros like, gotcha, bitch,
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: you know. He's just like, I know it's you. And
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: you know what else happened at that time? So his
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: wife had died and Arthur Nicoletty married his daughter. Now
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: did daughter. So Remington Bistro's like, this is it. He's
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: he they had this child. They killed the child to
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: cover it up for you know, the you know, like
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: to keep the family's name intact.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: And that's and he basically like that's when he was like,
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: you better he got police back there. He gets investigators back.
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: They do question him again, and then when they don't
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: find anything, Remington Bistro comes back and he's like, you
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: better take a lie detector test, you better take a
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: polygraph test. And when Arthur Nicoletty's like, I'm not doing that,
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: of course, Remington's like that even furthers his suspicions. He's like,
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: what are you scared of taking this test? And blah
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: blah blah blah blah. So that's the information I have
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: about the psychic and Remington distro. And it's a story
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: in itself, yep. And it's a crazy story in itself.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: And that house was a mile and a half down
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: the road from where they found the boy in the box.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: And the only thing that we can put into question
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: now that we know the identity of the boy is
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: whether or not this is our guy.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Correct.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: If we didn't know the identity of the boy, I
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: would say probability of it being Nicoletti is somewhere in
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: the nineties to one. But now that we know the identity, yep,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: we've got to go down some of the ab and news.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: Yes we do, yes, we do. Most you know, I
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: came across there was a book written about a woman
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: and they called her m Did you ever come across that?
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Hell fucking yeah, I came across that she's the one
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: who was in Uh, she was in either in like
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: a treatment facility or she was talking to a psychiatrist.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: And her psychiatrist is the one who came forward because
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: the stories she kept telling over and over again about
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: what happened to this boy, that her mom pretty much
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: was like going door to door selling avon or something
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: and then just came home with this kid one day.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I have her recollection of her story that she
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: told the psychiatrist mm hmm. And I have even further details.
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: I even have her parents' names.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: How I do too, Okay, But before we do that,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: did you know even the Pope at one point was like,
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: let me bestow a blessing on all the detectives working
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: this case that you'll find the identity of the boy.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: And then like, what was it like ten years later
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: they found the identity of the boy or something like that.
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: No, I didn't know that at all.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: He gave them even a plaque and it was like, hope,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: John Paul, the whichever one it was, gives his blessing
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: that the detectives on this case will find the identity
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: of the boy. And then just recently, but I mean
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: that's probably got no connection to it. I just thought
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: it was interesting that even the pope knew about this kid.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Even the Pope knew about this kid.
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean this, this this is a pretty
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: famou this cold case, and for a lot of reasons.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: You know, normally when you have cold cases, like there's
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: somebody somewhere saying I lost a child, yep, I know,
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: very rarely do you have it where a child is
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: going to go missing, unreported, let alone killed unreported, nobody
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: comes forward, especially with all the pictures, especially with the
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: amount of people that have seen it. It's just such
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: a rare type case that just when you envision, like
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: you know, I have I have three kids, and you know,
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: you just start thinking about like their little bodies, like
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: if they turned up like that, mm hmm. It's just
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: you can't help but think like that.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: He was like naked though too in the body.
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah. Just disgusting every way, every way, shape or form.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: And you know, when we really go through ms account
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: her story that she tells the psychiatrist, who then relays
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: that information. She actually used the psychiatrist as a liaison
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: to the police and detectives because she didn't want to
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: be directly involved with them. You know, It's just like
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: when I paint that picture in my head and you
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: just think about how sick it is.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: It's disgusting, man, And if you think about the last moments,
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: it's even worse. Yep, But where did you get started?
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: Within the way I came across it was the psychic
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: and then I kind of went down that rabbit hole
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: with the house and the foster kids, and then you said, hey,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: they found the identity of the boy. Then after I
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: started looking into that, realized it probably couldn't have been
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Nicoletti because of the bio parents to this, so I
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: looked at him. She's got a very compelling story.
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: There's no holes in M's story, by the way, no holes.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: The police can not deny any of her facts, but
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: they just can't corroborate her story or corroborate her story fully.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: That's the only problem with M's story. And when you
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: figure out who M is and who the Davis family is,
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: and that's who they were talking about here, none of
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: them are still alive. They've all been dead for years.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: Even Martha Davis, who is M, has been dead for years.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: She had no surviving children, so there is nobody there
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: to be. You know basically say you're defaming my family
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: or you're saying these horrible things without any proof. But
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: what we can say for certain is this is M's testimony.
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: So what I'll tell you is what M says happened
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: through her psychiatrist to the police.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: And she knew details of the crime that never were released.
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: The only one that I have that I think is
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: was lightly released once, but not to the details she
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: said that I can think of. But the things that
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: she does say like the only thing that like a
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: lot of people are hung up on. And I'll say this,
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: so we know that the boy's name is Joseph Augustus Zarelli.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: That is the identity of this child. Okay. They figured
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: this out through forensic genealogy over the course of years.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, the bodies first exoomed in nineteen ninety eight
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: for DNA when DNA was young. They redug up the
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: child in twenty eighteen, I believe, or twenty nineteen, and
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: that was due to the fact of these twenty three
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: and knees and the access dot COM's and they're finding
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: more and more links. But I can get into some
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: of those details later. But so we know the boy's
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: name is Justice or Joseph Augustus Zarelli. And when Em
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: refers to her adopted brother, she calls him Jonathan. And
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: people are, you know, confused by that. I'm like, just
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: because they put on a birth certificate Joseph, these people
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: who gave this child away, that doesn't mean that the
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: new family's gonna call him Joseph. They're gonna call him
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: whatever they want.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: And also she said that he lived with them two
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: or three years, so that means they would have gotten
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: him when he was one.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they're gonna call him whatever they do.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: They're gonna make up their own name for him, Johnny
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: or Jonathan whatever, that's the name they picked. He was
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: only one years old when they got him. But before
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: we put the cart before the horse. Yeah, give me
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: a timeline on EM's story.
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: Well, as far as I know, I can give you
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: the details. I don't know if I have a chronological
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: date path, Okay, but we're talking about the child would
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: have been born in nineteen fifty three January fifteenth, I
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: believe nineteen fifty three, and I have the parents' names,
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: but we can kind of reveal those at the end.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: And what's interesting about that, as of this recording. I mean,
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: these parents' names were and the history of these parents,
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: the actual birth parents. They're on the birth certificate for
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: Joseph Augustus Crelli. We're only named about five days ago.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: That's how new some of these details are. And more
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: details will come out because the police are not saying
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: that or the police are calling this an ongoing investigation.
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: Stone so we'll see.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: That's incredible too, incredible after seventy years.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: Well the child, so sixty five years since the incident,
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: I do know it was, and January fifteenth would have
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: been his he was born in fifty three. It was
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: his seventieth birthday, and that is actually the day that
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: they put they changed it from America's Unknown Child on
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: the on the gravestone, they changed it to Joseph Augustus
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: Sarelli on the gravestone now with actual pace. So and
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: a lot of the people that we're talking about, like
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: even people from the Zarelli family that are alive now
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: who are vowing to say, we'd love to find out
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: what's happened to this child. They were in attendance, wow,
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: to pay their respects. Now that they know that this
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: child had some sort of relation or connection to them,
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: though I don't know. I know that people on the
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: mother's side said they were horrified by the events. I
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: don't know if anybody came to the move to the
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: unveiling of the new tombstone.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: I think they're trying to stay in the shadows, possibly
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: for fear of retaliation.
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, mm hmm. So did you want to go
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: tell your chronological story of what you think happened with
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: them and I'll just see if it matches.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Mine or yeah, so I have let's see, Okay, they
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: are pursuing the What's that got Nicoletti? And that goes
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: nowhere pretty much. And then forty years later, in two
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: thousand and two, a woman identified as M told investigators
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: that the boy had been purchased by her abusive mother
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: from another family in nineteen fifty four. M claimed his
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: name was Jonathan and that he had been physically and
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: sexually abused by her mother, and after he vomited up
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: baked beans one night, M claims that her mother had
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: beaten him to death in a fit of rage. Newsweek
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: reports that the story M told seemed credible, as baked
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: beans had been found in the boy's stomach. What's more,
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: M had said that her mother had tried to bathe
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: the boy after beating him, which could have explained his
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: pruny fingers, but ultimately the police were unable to substantiate
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: her client. Thus, the decades passed and the boy in
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: the box remained unidentified. But they have went back to
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: her story and looked at it again, and the m
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: story seems to line up with the Bio parents. The
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Bio mom for sure selling this boy to EM's mother. Yeah,
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: and they renamed him, And ultimately M's story is probably true.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: So I'm gonna paint a picture for your audience, and
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: it's gonna go right along with what you said. I'm
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: just gonna give a few more details, got it. So
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: there's a night and we're gonna call her Martha because
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: her real name's actually Martha. Her name's Martha Davis. Okay, parents,
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: I can't remember her father. I thought I wrote down
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: the father's name, Okay, But he's a physics teacher at
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: the school, and her mother is Marjorie Davis, and Marjorie
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: Davis is the librarian at the school. So both parents
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: work at the school. And Martha has several claims of
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: being sexually abused her entire life as a child. Just
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: to get that out, guys, by the father.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: I actually have it right here. She says that she
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: was sexually abused by her mother, father and mother's quote
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: evil circle of friends.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: Unbelievable. Now, you guys think about that, And I'm not
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: throwing shade on teachers. Okay, they're very hard working people,
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: and we shouldn't just like think they're all pedophiles or something.
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: But we all understand, just like priests are not all pedophiles. Okay,
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: I understand that. What happens, though, is people that want
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: to get close to children get themselves close to children
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: because they're sick and they're perverted in that way. So
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: these parents were perverted in that way, the father that way,
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: and the mother had always told the father, I don't care,
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: I won't report anything you do as long as you
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: don't talk about my perversions with little boys. That was
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: the mother Marjorie the library and at the school sign
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: in the books. Now, I do also want to say
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: this that when you dig into the neighbors, the way
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: the neighbors talked about the family, when others that worked
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: in the school district talk about knowing these people They
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: all say their stand up individuals, very very nice, easy
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: to get along with, no problems whatsoever, blended into society perfectly. Okay.
• 49:56
  Speaker 3: So they also claim that Marsha uh Martha had a
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: history of mental illness, and I'm sitting there like, no shit,
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: if she was sexually abused.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: It's actually abused. But you know who out splended right
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: in with society, Ted Bundy. So tell me something else
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: about how great they were.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: Well, I know, and you know the thing that happens
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: as we get older and we learn more about sociopaths
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: and psychopaths, we know they're veried. They're damn good at
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: blending into society. Yeah, and they do get themselves in
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: positions where they can be trusted in society and people
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: would never think one thing or the other of them.
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: The neighbors also said they never saw a boy at
• 50:39
  Speaker 3: that house ever, So they're like, well, we can't corrab
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: corroborate or story because there's never been a boy. No shit.
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: He was locked in a motherfucking.
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: Base He was locked in the basement his entire life.
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: On purpose for no one you ever see anyway, So
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: let me get into the story. I just wanted to
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: put that out there that people have talked about this family,
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: who they are, what they did for a living, and
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: you guys put the pieces together, you know, like my
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: feelings about it are irrelevant. The facts are. They worked
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: in the school district. One's a physics teacher, one's the librarian.
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: They did have this daughter. They are the Davis family.
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: They're in Pennsylvania anyway. So one night, Martha gets into
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: the car with her mother and they drive to a
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: house and Martha remembers that a woman answers the door
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: and she's holding a baby, and the baby swaddled. She
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: remembers that the baby looked like it had a full
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: diaper and smelled bad. Okay, her mother's holding an envelope
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: and in the envelope it's fat. Martha believes there's cash
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: in there. There's something in the envelope. She hands it
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: to the lady. She hears a man inside the house
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: that she never sees say, hey, did you get the money,
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: and the woman calls yes, and they leave. When they
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: get back to the house, her father sitting upstairs and says,
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: you cannot keep that boy up here. I refuse to
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: allow you to keep that boy upstairs. He belongs in
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: the basement because you know, Martha's reasoning is she knows
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: what the mother wants to do with this child. Okay,
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: so since this baby's one years old, it's already been
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: set up for failure, which is, you know when you
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: really think about how disgusting this is right from the
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: get go. Guys. So Martha seeing this stuff, I think
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: she's like eleven years old at this time, and she's
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: already experienced her own abuses according to her. Okay, So
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: she sees her mother grab two dog dishes, one for food,
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: one for water. This is a fucking one and a
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: half year old, two year old kid, Okay. So they
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: got the dog dishes. They make one of the coal
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: bins downstairs in the basement where they had like a
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: coal area to heat the house. There's a coal bin.
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: They turn it into a bed, and there's a drain
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: in the floor that the boy uses as a toilet. Well, Martha.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: A.
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: Courd claims to the psychiatrist that like she believed the
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: boy was mentally handicapped because he never talked or interacted
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: with people correctly. And I'm sitting there thinking, if you're
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: not socialized correctly, you're not going to speak, Okay.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: You also have to be taught how to speak.
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: Yes, in my mind, you have to socially interact to
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: be able to do that, like in any way, shape
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: or form. So if you're not getting that and you're
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: being abused constantly, I don't know what the mind's going
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: to do, but it's going to go into some sort
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: of protective mode and you're not going to be learning
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: or retaining that type of information. But that's just my
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: argument against her calling Joseph Mentalley handicapped. Maybe he really
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: was mentally handicapped and we don't no, maybe he did
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: have autism and we don't know. But the reality is
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: they didn't talk about shit like that back then anyway. Really,
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: you know, I don't think they were posting that type
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: of stuff. They just call people stupid or whatever. But
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: if you're enduring those types of abuses, it's gonna screw
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: you up regardless of right.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: They become reclusive, they become you know you're talking about
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: he never knew anything other than being keep in a basement,
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: no sunlight, no interaction with other children, no one loving
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: on him, no one teaching him anything. There it's probably less.
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: Like rarely eating rarely even eating.
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: Less likely he had a mental handicap, and more likely
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: that he was just a victim of abuse.
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, almost going feral in a way, like you don't
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: have he interaction except for that. Martha said this, once
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: a week, her mother would go downstairs for an abnormally
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: long amount of time, and you can only suspect what
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: this woman would be doing down there for that long
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: amount of time. Obviously Martha didn't see it, but knowing
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: the history, knowing what these people are claimed to be
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: capable of, according to Martha, probably some pretty disgusting type
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: shit with a young little boy. Okay, obviously it's already
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: disgusting just if nothing sexual is happening, but if she
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: is going down there and once a week and doing
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: something sexual, it's disgusting. And then she would bring the
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: boy upstairs after that long amount of time, and she'd
• 55:51
  Speaker 3: bathe him once a week, so he'd get a bath
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: once a week up there. Now. She always said that
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: her family didn't have like normal dinner times or like
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: meetings where they would all get together into dinnertamer and
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: talk about their day or something. There was no structure
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: like that, and the parents always claimed, like we don't
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: have enough money for food. Like even Martha said she
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: didn't feel like she ate very often. She's hungry a lot.
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: There'd be times where she'd go with only one meal
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: or no meal for a day. And obviously, judging by
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: Joseph Zarelli's body, he wasn't getting fed very often either
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: during that time though, him being a physics teacher, her
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: being a librarian. I'm sure they had plenty of money.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: They're just dicks.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: M h. You don't have enough money for food, but
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: you're going out buying a kid.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And the reason I know that's true is
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: because she was eating more than he was. So this
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: is a torture thing what they're doing.
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: He's just a sexual plaything for her in the most
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: perverted sense of the word. We're going to keep you.
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: We're not even going to give you the mercy of death.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: We're going to give you sexual torture, no pleasure. Mhm.
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: As a child, you'll never play with a toy, you'll
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: never make a friend, you'll never.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Watch cartoons, you'll never fucking evil.
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: You're straight evil, Yeah, the purest form of evil. Like
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: I'd rather see somebody just kill you, then put you
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: through this for three years, and then kill you. Yeah,
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like, there's no mercy there.
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: And this just for the listeners, the people who sold him,
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: there's no way that they could have known that's what
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: she was going to do with him.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: Well, if you think about the family, I mean, like,
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: so Mary Elizabeth Abel, his mother, actually had a daughter
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: before she had Joseph, and she gave that daughter up
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: for adoption, Okay, and so this time around, she was
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: twenty one years old. There's no saying that Augustus Zarelli
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: or august Zarelli, who was the father, ever even knew
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: the boy existed. There's not even a good record of
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: how those two ever even met. They do know that
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: Mary Elizabeth Abel had a sister that lived in the
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: same building that Augustus Sarelli. They tracked that down, so
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: there's a possibility that there was maybe a one night
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: stand there, or they met there and maybe saw each
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: other for a short amount of time, but there was
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: not an extended period of time there when anybody knew
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: of their relationship with them. Most people have trouble remembering
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: her being pregnant with this point, but obviously the boys
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: named after the father in both the middle name and
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: last name. And then you know, maybe this time around,
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: she's like, okay, so I do I need money. I'm
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: twenty one years old, Like instead of adoption, I'll sell
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: the child, but which I guess actually was kind of
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: a common thing back then.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, more common than you'd think.
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And she looked at the family and she's like
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: two people who work in a school already kids already,
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: you know, like, okay, this is fine. You know, this
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: woman's gonna be fine. This woman will give my child
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: a better life than I could. Now. Obviously I'm saying
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: that I'm pure speculation, but if when you look at
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: something from the outside, that's how I would see it.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Now, unfortunately, guys after these parents' names, and this
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: is just in the five days since they've named them,
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: there's like death threats going to the Zarelli family. There's
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: like you better say this, you better come forward with that,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: and it's like, really, everybody's dead. Had anything to do
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: with that is dead, first of all, and you can't.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: You shouldn't be put up on a platter for the
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: crimes your parents committed. And I sure, shit, don't want
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: to be put on the platter for the crimes my
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: parents committed, let alone whatever. And that's if they did anything.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: Like there's no, I know, substandible evidence that these people
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: did anything wrong. I think that selling a child or not.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: She needed money, maybe they were just hooking up. She
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: got pregnant, she concealed the pregnancy, maybe she already knew
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: what she was going to do, or because he was
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: one years old? When what's her Martha? What's what's Martin?
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: Or Elizabeth? Betsy Abel? Are you talking about the mother?
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: The psycho mom mom Marjorie? Okay, so when Marjorie bought
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: the baby, he was already one, so maybe she tried
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: to take care of it. Maybe she tried and then
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: she was like, no, this is I just can't and
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: I'm twenty one. I need the money. And then her parents,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: maybe her father helped her arrange something with people of
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: good standing in the community. A librarian and a physics.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: Teacher who are around kids all the time, yeap, who
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: have a great like if you would have checked into
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: it again when we started, we talked about what the
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: neighbors said about these people. So let's say you vet
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: this family. What are you finding, no criminal history, They're
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: around kids all the time, they have their own children
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: or their own daughter. M what's the problem. They have house,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: good income. I'm a twenty one year old girl, no
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: husband in the fifties.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: Yep, still living with her parents.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: Probably have no relation with the Italian man that I
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: just slept with that's gone, that doesn't even know this
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: baby might even exist, you know, And again that's all speculation.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: But at the same time, it's like, this is pretty credible.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: You could see that how this would play out.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: In unwed mothers. That was a thing in the fifties.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: It was a shameful thing. Yep, that you're not married
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: and your baby daddy doesn't know who that you're even pregnant,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: and he's not around, and you still live with your parents,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: And it was a shameful thing.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: And it would have been hard for her twenty one
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: to find a husband later yep, which she does eventually do.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: Her last name changed change changes to Plunkt. She meets
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: a guy Mary Elizabeth able to cheat, her name changes
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: to Betsy plunk It, and she ends up I think
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: having like four kids with him.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: And they stayed married. Yeah, so it's not that she
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: was purposefully doing this to her.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: And everybody that ever said they met her, like I
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: have quotes about they were like nicest woman. Wouldn't her
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: to flee? Like, you know, just really cared about people,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: cared about her community.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: Was probably a mom to those other kids.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: It was probably a phenomenal mom, you know. And the
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: thing that's really sad too is like you got to
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: think about like if she knew how much that would
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: have destroyed her, it's probably better that she never knew that.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: Me as a parent, like, if I felt like I
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: ever had to do something like that and I thought
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: I was giving my child away to a better home
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: and I find that out, it's probably good that it happened.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: Like we find the baby's identity sixty five years later,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: that might have killed her like that, Yeah, she might
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 3: have never been able to live with herself. M And
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: again I'm speculating, guys, but I don't think I'm too
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: far off base here.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: With that would also explain why when she saw the
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: photos of the boy that she never stepped forward like, oh,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: that was my son that I sold because he was
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: one years old. He's one, you don't know what that
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: kid looks like now, and he was malnourished exactly, so
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: it's not even like you're getting a full faced kid
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: and you're like, Wow, that looks like my kid. It's
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: totally different.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: Yep, yep.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: But to get back to the story of M.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: I have the final moments here. So M's story we
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: talked to about the family dinners. That's kind of where
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: we left off. Em does come forward and say she's
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: rarely fed, the boys rarely fed. She does say that
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: the boy gets a bath once a week, but he
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: never gets haircuts, never got a haircut, so I'm assuming
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: that he actually probably had very long hair. Which this
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: is a side note. Some people think that there's a
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: possibility that they may have tried to play him off
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: like he was a girl, if they ever took him
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: out for any reason with long hair. Okay, I've heard
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: that theory. Again speculation, But let's get to the night
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: at hand. This is the this is the brass tacks
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: of everything. So one night, Martha claims she can hear
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 3: Jonathan's feet being drug up the stairs. So Marjorie's like
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: stomping up the stairs, but she hears like Jonathan's feet
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: being drug up the stairs, is the way she claimed it.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: And they get to the top of the stairs and
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: there was like a little bit more resilience and resistance
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: in quote unquote Jonathan at this time. Or let's call
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: him Joseph. Let's just call him Joseph for the rest
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 3: of the time, because we know that's his real name. Yeah, okay,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: So they take Joseph and push him into the bath. Now,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: the bath, she said this time had excruciatingly hot water.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 3: That's the way Mirth put it. She's like, this water
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: was scolding hot. When she pushes him in, he screams,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: starts splashing around. Obviously he's being burned. People being burned
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: in this water. Okay, so he's splashing around, he's screaming.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: She's like, shut up, shut up, Start smacking it right
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: across the face, hits him in his head, hits him
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: in his body, hits him in his legs. He's so
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: destruct he throws up into the water. Okay, what does
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: what does Marjorie do? Beat some harder, because obviously that's
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: gonna work.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: He's yeah, and she's now got to clean up a mess.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: She's got to clean up a mess. And God forbid
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 3: you throw up when you're being mistreated to that point
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: of torture, hits him, his head goes back, hits the wall.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: He's now gone silent. So what do you do to
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: somebody that's gone silent? Hit him some more. Obviously, you
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: need to hit him some more because now they're not
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: doing what you want him to do again, which is
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: wake up. Right, So she's screaming, wake up, wake up
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: to this kid. Hidden them some more, hidden them some more.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 3: She turns around to Martha and says, get out. When
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: she realizes this kid's not waking up, she tells him
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: to get out. Door closes. She hears some splashing in
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: the tub, so she knows she put the boy back
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: in the tub, but it's dead quiet in there. Martha
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: says she's kind of distraught, doesn't know what to do,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: so she decides she's gonna go back upstairs and she
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: goes to sleep. When she wakes back up in the morning,
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: she comes back downstairs and Jonathan's last Joseph is sitting
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: in the tub. But now that the water's been drained, okay,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: but what's strange is his hair has now been cut,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: his hands and feet are from the bath water, his
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: fingernails have been cut, and he's just lifeless. Sitting in
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: the in the bath. She sees her mother go into
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: the other room and she grabs a blanket and she
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: called it a flannel blanket. Guys wraps the boy into
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: a flying flannel blanket. They go down into the basement
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: and out a side door to the car and put
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: him in the trunk. Here is a bit of evidence
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: that the police rarely told anybody and wasn't put out
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: there for a lot of people to say. But they
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 3: have this bit of evidence, and this is just mind
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 3: blowing part of the story. So they keep driving along
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: and they find this area where people dumple out of
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: their garbage. They topped the trunk and a driver stops
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: because he sees a woman and what he says to
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: police as a witness, I saw a woman stop by
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: the side of the road with her son. Broad shouldered,
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: probably fifteen years old, Martha says. I never turned around
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: to see a driver who pulled up and asked me
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: and my mother if we were okay or needed help
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: changing attire. Okay, Martha was a tall, broad shouldered fifteen
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 3: year old girl. He mistook her for this witness mistook
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: her for a boy. But Martha even claims in her
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: statement to the psychiatrist and the police, I never turned around.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: He never saw yeah, and he just assumed, you know,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 3: this woman's there with her son, broad shouldered, tall, about
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: I think he said twelve years old. Probably pretty close
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: right from what he remembers, because I probably ran into
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: some people today and I could have told you they're
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: wearing a coat, and they weren't, you know what I mean.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: He's recalling it pretty close. Well. When they decline his
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: offer for any help, there's two women by the side
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: of the road. He thinks nothing of it. Guys, most
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: people wouldn't. That's the reality here. You're thinking, man, we
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: all think, man, come on, let's be honest. You're all
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: thinking a man killed this kid. Everybody is not a
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: woman with her daughter, no. But the reality is sometimes
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: it goes that way, right, So this is M's story.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: Pulls out the child and helps her mother, Carrie Joseph
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: Augustus Cirelli, and there's a box already lying in the woods,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: and they put them in the box. And what blew
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: my mind is, you know, Remington just assumes this box
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 3: is part of the murder, and the crime scene. We're
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: gonna find it. Probably pulled those two staples out of
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: that box, sent them to the psychic, and the psychics like, oh,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: this is where the box came from. And the box
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: probably did come from those people the discarded the box,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: and they discarded the box a mile and a half
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 3: down from their house when they bought the bascinet that
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: he saw at the estate sale. And guys, I'm not
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: even the first one to believe in psychics and all
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: this other stuff, but this is just too damn good,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: I know, and it just winds up too well.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: Because that's a dumping ground.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: They the psychic describes the house to the t. They
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: just so happened to have that bascinet. They just so
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 3: happened to have a similar blanket and a screwed up
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: family dynamic. No, they didn't kill Joseph, but it's kind
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 3: of fucked up. So and that's factual shit we talked
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: about the Nicoletta family. The Nicoletta family's got some fucked
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: up stuff that happened.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: They're fucked up, but they're not child murderers.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: They're not tossing the baby in a box fucked up. No,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: So anyway, that's basically where her story ends, with the
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: exception of talking about how she's basically still sexually molested
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: for years to come within this family. And then they're like, well,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: she never told anybody else, Like she never came forward
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: with this. Let me tell you a little something about Martha.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: She ends up working Martha Davis ends up working for Eli.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 3: Lilly has a doctorate, master's degree in other things, like
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: all in the sciences. She's an extremely smart woman. When
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 3: she was put in or when she was in college,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: she actually told her college roommate that her mother killed somebody,
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: and her college roommate kind of just played it off
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: like okay, whatever, bullshit. But here we are, and they're like,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: she did tell somebody that is nobody believed it. And
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: the first time she told her psychiatrist this story. Because
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: even in the eighties when I was growing up, people
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 3: didn't really come forward and say, hey, I'm kind of
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: looney tunes right now, I need therapy, I need all
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: of a sudden, you don't come forward with that.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: I think you're talking about a successful woman who has
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: a doctorate, master's degrees, Like she's no slouch. Why is
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: she gonna now come forward and be like, by the way,
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: and make herself look like a crazed loom. She wouldn't
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: you know? That was probably very hard for her to
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: come forward to do that.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 3: Correct, extremely hard for her. Now she first comes forward
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: to the psychiatrist nineteen eighty nine. The psychiatrist doesn't contact
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: police about this till two thousand and two. So I'm
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 3: going to give you guys a little something for reference.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 3: It's hard for some people to understand. In nineteen eighty nine,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: we didn't know what the motherfucking internet was, all right.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 3: Unless she saved every article and memorized every little bit
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 3: of this and every little bit of that, her story
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 3: probably still would have been a little bit off. But no,
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 3: she gets details down to this that the other you know,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: all the way down to the baked beans, all the
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: way down to the esophagus having vomit in it, and
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 3: talks about the bomb, talks about a flannel blanket, the
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 3: boys wrapped in a flannel blanket, talks about people pulling
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: up to them when they're getting taken the boy out
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: of the trunk that basically nobody knows about. Telling all
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 3: of this stuff in nineteen eighty nine. Nineteen eighty nine.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: She's giving details that were never just. We all saw
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: what he looked like. We all saw the pictures of
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: the corpse. She didn't say he would have pruned fingers.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: She said he was in the tub all night. Correct
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: say he should have short hair. She said he never
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: had a haircut, but when I saw him that morning,
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: his hair was shaved. She said he threw up baked beans.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: She said his fingernails were cut. These are things like
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: give me a break.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: I know, and so I do. The father's name was
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 3: James Davis. I did write it down. He was the
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: psychic or he was the same. He was the physics teacher,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 3: and Marjorie F. Davis was the boy's mother. Adopted. Obviously,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 3: these are adopted the only other thing detectives talk about.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: So she comes forward in two thousand and two. She
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 3: uses the psychiatrist as hear liaison with detectives. Detectives say
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 3: they think the psychiatrists is a pretty arrogant dude. But
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 3: when they also start to kind of investigate this a
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: little bit more when they question neighbors, neighbors say, Martha
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 3: is a quiet girl, but she was always very intelligent,
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 3: and I can see that. I could see that from
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 3: this type of upbringing and obviously what she ends up
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: doing for a living. And the Marjorie F. Davis, they
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: moved to Ohio. They moved to the Cincinnati area because
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 3: the father, James Davis, dies in the sixties, like mid sixties,
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 3: I think, like nineteen sixty seven or something. Marjorie gets uh,
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 3: severe dementia and ends up dying in a nursing home
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 3: somewhere in the Cincinnati area. I have, Well, you never know, karma.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 3: You hope that karma does get these people, you know,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 3: like that's our our that's what you want, you know.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: So you find out she's a Martha becomes a chemist
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 3: for Eli Lily and and just so we know, like
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 3: in the eighties, therapy is considered a taboo subject. And
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: to be honest with you, people to this day still
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 3: doubt her testimony because they believe she has mental illness.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 3: But here's the thing, Like it's the old like chicken
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: in the egg thing. For me, It's like, if you
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 3: experience something like this, like you're not fucking normal people,
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 3: God damn it, You're not normal. So I get it
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 3: you might have some illness. Does that mean that your
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 3: testimony is completely invalid? Or worthless because people will find
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 3: any reason. When you go to court, these lawyers will
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 3: look at you and be like, so I heard you
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: smoke the pack of cigarettes a day. Testimony invalid? You know,
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 3: anything you do, anything you do your your testimony is invalid.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: When you're abused to that point sexually and you finally
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: come out and maybe fucking say something about it, is
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 3: your testimony completely invalid, especially when it hits on all points.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: It'd be one thing to me if she came out
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: and said all this stuff and nothing's matching up. Mm hmm.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: You'd have something wrong when you're making up stories your
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: facts are wrong.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. And you know what else, it's actually a
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: credit to how smart she is that she went and
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: got therapy.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, and god no only knows she need it. Yeah,
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: you fucking need it.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: At that point, you tell me somebody who's just looney
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: tunes is going to recognize that they need to go
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: get therapy when it's a taboo type of thing to
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: go and try to.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 3: Get Oh, absolutely absolutely. And actually, guys, just so we know,
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 3: when I did find this out, so after you know,
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 3: they were living in Ohio at this time, but police
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 3: did want to get to the bottom of this. So
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 3: they actually asked the homeowners that lived in the house
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 3: after them that you know, in the two thousands, They're like,
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 3: can we come out? They did not. They did, and
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 3: they went to the basement, found concrete port in what
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: they thought was an old drain that that boy might
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 3: have been using as the bathroom. They found piping in
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 3: there for an old coal bin, and the old coal
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: shoot just like she said, and a side door exactly
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 3: where she said where they would have went right out
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: to the driveway to where the cars were. And could
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 3: that all be the way most of the houses in
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 3: that area were built. Maybe, But guess what, it still
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 3: all adds up. It's all there.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: You know, tell me they saw a ghost of a
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: little boy walking around in there.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 3: No, they did not that what they said. Okay, maybe
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 3: they did, but they're not coming out and saying it.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 3: And maybe, Hey, get that forensics going, guys, get the
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: genealogy going. You're gonna find out who I am real quick.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 3: But you know, it just everything starts to add up
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 3: to who this boy is. Her story is just too
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 3: fucking good. It hits on all cylinders, and even Remington
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: Bistro's story hits on all cylinders. He just was going
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 3: in the wrong direction.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: Without you so close. Though. He shouldn't have gave her
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: a state. He should have gave her the blanket.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: I know, well, he didn't know them. I know. That's
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: one of those funny things where you're like, you assume
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: they go together because they're found together, but it just so.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 3: And I love how in her testimony she says, we
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 3: see a box there, so we put the boy in it,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 3: and it's like, so the box was just there. But
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: people don't think like that. You think, hey, we hid
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 3: this kid in a box, and you know, like you
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 3: put it together because they're found together, just like you
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 3: put the boy in the blanket together, or the cap together,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 3: or you start finding other stuff there. You don't know
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 3: what's connected and what's not. And hindsight me in twenty twenty,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: we all say, oh, yeah, we should have known this,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: we should have known that. But when you find things
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 3: like this, you don't know what's linked and what's not.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: And you're just trying to find anything.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that Remington's not too far off knowing that, hey,
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 3: there's something going on his family that ain't right. I
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 3: don't like the way this guy's looking at his daughter
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 3: with his lights sit right here. I'll tell you that
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 3: right now. And this blank. This looks a little funny
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 3: going on over here. But he wasn't off. He was
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 3: just wrong. It's just really wrong.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: He was a good detective though, for looking into that.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And just so everybody knows this, Martha Davis, her
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 3: middle initial was E. You can find all these people's
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 3: obituaries online if you ever want to read them about
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 3: more what they did. But Martha E. Davis, she died
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty, I believe you or not really announced it. Yes, Wow,
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: And she always thought the boy's name was Jonathan. But
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: I'll say this, I think she had it right. It
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 3: was just they called him Jonathan in the house. I
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: have a feeling that they renamed that boy Jonathan for
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 3: some reason.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: Maybe they always wanted to have a son named Jonathan.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: Who knows. But it is close to Joseph.
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 3: I know. That's what I said too. It's close. But
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: I don't think she got it wrong. I think they
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 3: just called him Jonathan in the house.
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: Well, let me tell you this. Let me tell you this.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: I may have another theory, and it is a devil
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: worship cult. Now I'm just kidding.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 3: God damn it, I'm gonna say, I know.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: This is the first time on record that you and
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: I came to the exact same conclusions, really said it
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 2: more eloquently. Yes, that's all, but I yeah, I explored
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: every avenue and I led back to m every single
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: time in her testimony.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 3: Well, it's it's the best testimony, it's the best story.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: It matches everything at the crime scene. As you guys know,
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: I anybody who's listened anything I've done in the past,
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 3: I really try to link as much as I can
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 3: to who's there when something happens or what's going on.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 3: And even though we don't know for sure that they
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 3: were actually there when the boy died, like we don't
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 3: know that em is telling the truth or in this case,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 3: you know, Martha sure damn well seems like she is.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: It sure seems like it to me. And what a
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: thing to make up with that type of detail, Brian, Well, the.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 3: Reality is she either one hundred percent believes every word
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 3: she says and it never happened, or one hundred percent happened,
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 3: Like there's no in between. You know, she's she's not
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 3: making this up. You don't go see a psychiatrist and
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 3: say all these things. Keep it private for like twenty
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 3: years and then too much. Yeah, and tell people in
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: college that's what happened. And she believes that this is
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 3: one hundred percent what happened.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: You know why she probably told her college roommate that
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: is because she just needed an outlet.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 3: Of course. And at that time, who the hell like
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 3: you know there And I'm not saying there's anything wrong
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 3: with this mentality in society, because it's probably right more
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 3: than it is wrong. But you know, you didn't question
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: people's parents at that time. You didn't question authorities. You
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 3: didn't question those type of people. Right, they had authority
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 3: for a reason they had these things. But again, with
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 3: power comes responsibility, and not everybody is responsible with that power, right,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 3: and they all they will abuse it. So absolute power
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 3: comes with some consequence too, you know, like people are
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 3: going to abuse that, and that's what happened back then,
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 3: whether it be a man's word against a woman's word
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 3: or you know, and then now people can say the opposite,
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 3: maybe a woman's words too strong against a man's word
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 3: or whatever. However people feel at any given moment. But
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: in the time, you know, when that power is there,
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 3: and that kind of power dynamic is there, it can
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 3: be abused. Yeah, and you can always find evidence of that. Right.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 3: So these parents at that time knew working in the
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 3: school district, them being parents, whatever. If she came out
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 3: and said anything about it, they were going to be like,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 3: shut up, know your role. And basically you didn't think
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 3: you were eaten. Now you're going to be up in
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 3: the woods next kid. We already killed one kid in
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 3: front of you. You don't think we wouldn't.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 2: Kill you, right, And just think if it was heard
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 2: making it up, you would think that maybe five six
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: years later she would just been like, a nobody's buying
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: my bullshit. Ten years later, definitely probably not talking about
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: it anymore. Twenty years later, Brian, she never changed her story,
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 3: And to remember the details like that, I mean maybe
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 3: she wrote them all down, I know she.
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: But that's something you don't forget right there. That's trauma.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: That's true trauma.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 3: And it's interesting you talk about the details too, because
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 3: some of the police were like, well, we don't like
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 3: how the psychiatrists has a lack of notes on the cakes.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 3: And the reality is, guys, psychiatrists are under no rules
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 3: to write notes on cases. Kay. They're there to treat patients.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 3: They're not there to take facts down and do all
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: this other stuff. He might have been an arrogant asshole,
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 3: doesn't mean he's a liar.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: Or maybe he thought she was given him like a
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: metaphor for something and he was trying to diagnose a
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: hallucination or something. They're gonna be kind of vague, like
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 2: she said there was a boy, the boy got killed,
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: the boy and the dead. Like this is just he's
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: trying to treat her for her own sexual abuse, her
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: own mental state. You know this.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 3: He's trying to get her to a place where she
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: can live.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's his main focus. It's not to figure out
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 3: who the boy in the boxes. That's police and detectives jobs.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: And she wasn't the one who said, hey, by the way,
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: the boy in the boxes. This She just told the
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: story over and over again, and he put two and
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: two together, and then she agreed, like going through her psychiatrist,
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 2: that she would be willing to have him contact the
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 2: police about it.
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: It wasn't like she was looking for notoriety or hey,
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 2: look at me now, the murderer of the Boy in
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: the Box.
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 3: I can't. I wish I would have wrote this down,
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: But anybody who's very interested in this story, obviously you
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 3: can find stuff about it all over the place, especially
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: right now that they're releasing new information. But that the
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 3: story of M in great detail is actually in a
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 3: book and I and I can't remember what he gives
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 3: her name. They only they may only call her M
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 3: throughout the book, and they come up with different names
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 3: for the parents, and they don't say Davis. But people
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 3: are figuring these people out real quick. M hm, especially
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 3: that they basically feel like they're free from defamatory lawsuits
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 3: because no surviving relatives are there.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 3: And that's huge. You know, it's funny that we do
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 3: talk about this stuff like that because like everybody's worried
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 3: about getting sued and and I kind of get that
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 3: to a degree. You don't want to say somebody is
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 3: doing something when they're not. But also it's like, who
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 3: the fuck's looking out for this little boy? You know,
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 3: that's my thing, Like he's he's putting in a fucking
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 3: basement and he's doing all you know, somebody's got to
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 3: speak for him.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: Starved sexually viewsed and tossed out like a freaking piece
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: of garbage. Yes, so that's my concern, and that's why
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: the detectives were so passionate about naming him. He deserves
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: a name.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 3: He deserved a name on that tombstone. He deserved a tombstone,
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 3: He deserved a burial plot. And all that stuff was donated.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 3: And I actually have there's memorials put up guys where
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 3: his body was found on that Suskaquwana Road, and at
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 3: that time it was a rural area, because it's kind
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 3: of built up now and I don't think people dump
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: their trash there anymore, right, you know. Like it's so
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 3: he was originally buried in a place called Potter's Field,
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 3: and I don't know what the grave marker was. It
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 3: might have been America's Unknown Child.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: Or something like that Unknown Child and like.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 3: Had a little story about him, and I know that
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 3: that's what the other memorial said. But then in nineteen
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 3: ninety eight, this is like when DNA really started to
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 3: take off, and they they got a court order to
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 3: be able to exhume the body and they took DNA
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 3: from one of his teeth. But that was like really
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 3: the infants like DNA testing was in its infancy, and
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 3: so they somebody donated a plot and he was moved
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 3: to Ivy Hill Cemetery and Cedar Brooks, Philadelphia, probably Philadelphia County.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 3: And on January thirteenth of twenty twenty three, that was
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 3: his seventieth birthday, they put a new memorial up and
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 3: it contained his full name, an image of him, and
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 3: along with the story. So he's got something there now. Now,
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 3: I did take some notes, and this is a story
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 3: in itself for people who follow your channel, and I
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 3: can understand, like, I know you love to cover conspiracy theories,
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 3: but even I, who is mister skeptic, like I have
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 3: my feelings about this kind of stuff too, because I've
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 3: done the twenty three and me and it brings up,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 3: you know, people that are related to me even by
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: like one point three percent, and they call them cousins,
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 3: and I have hundreds of them all over the place.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 3: I even make jokes sometimes, like when I see a
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 3: new girl, I'm like, let me see if you're my cousin.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 3: Let's check twenty three and me are you on there?
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 3: You know, we get a good laugh out of it.
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 3: I actually had one person say one time don't you
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 3: dare check? You we've already slept with each other. Don't
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 3: you dare check if we if we're cousins, you pervert.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 3: I'm like, all right, you got a good point. I
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 3: don't want to know either, but uh no, but I'll
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 3: joke beside. Like you get on there and people figure
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 3: out sometimes through this that they're like, they have a
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 3: different father than they thought. I know this is very common, guys.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 3: I hate to say it. It just sucks, but it's true.
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 3: People are finding out they you know, that the person
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 3: they thought was their father isn't their father, and all
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 3: this other stuff. But they're now using what they call
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 3: this brand new technology. They call it genealogy or AK
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 3: if you ever hear them say investigation genealogy. It's what
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: they're using to track this information down. Now, if you
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 3: go on twenty three and me or ancestry dot com,
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 3: or you send in these samples, supposedly there's a box
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 3: you can check that says, do not share my genetic
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 3: information with anybody, Like, I just want it for me
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 3: so I can figure out who my cousins are, so
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 3: I can figure out what diseases I'm susceptible to genetically
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 3: or all this other stuff. But you know what's crazy
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 3: about it is apparently one of these Zierelli kids. It
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: was one of the grandchildren of Augustus Sarelli did a
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 3: twenty three in me. Two days later, police are knocking
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 3: on his door. Whether or not he checked.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: That box, God only knows.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 3: God only knows. But your information's out there, and I
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 3: will say this, if somebody wants to get it, they're
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 3: gonna get it. Mhm. Just like I'm living in my
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 3: house right now, and I'm like, oh, I own a home.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 3: Nothing could ever happen to my home. And then the
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 3: government comes knocking. We want to build a road here
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 3: eminent domain. Bye, see ya, good luck. I'll give you
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 3: a hunch. I'll give you fifty percent of the value
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 3: for it, because that's what I say it's worth. And
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 3: you can go ahead and protest with signs out in
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 3: front of Capitol Hill for the next seven years if
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 3: you do care. And the reality is no, they're just
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 3: gonna fucking take it. Yeah right, yep. So once this
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 3: information's there and there's access to it, oh, it takes
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 3: is the stroke of a pen of a judge. And
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 3: no matter how much privacy you want to have. It's
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 3: out there, guys. So if you really really don't want
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 3: anybody to know this stuff, do not donate your spit
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 3: or DNA to these places. Okay, if you've killed people
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 3: and you want to get away with it, don't see
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 3: how susceptible the diabetes you are, Okay, don't.
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: You don't need to know if you're people.
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 3: Don't like you, know, you don't need to know that bad.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 3: But guess what when your sister donates your DNA, you're
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 3: still fucked. That's that they're gonna find your pathetic little
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 3: ass hiding in the cabin in the smoking mountains. Yes,
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 3: so that that's where we're at. And guy, when I
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 3: started digging this up, the funny thing is the and
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 3: I'd love for all of you guys to look this
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 3: up too, because your mind's going to be blown the
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 3: amount of cold cases that were solved in twenty twenty
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 3: two alone from this new DNA genetic testing. So the
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 3: way it works is they these family history companies like
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 3: Ancestry and twenty three and meat that provide family history
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 3: and health information have a little box and they say, well,
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 3: if you don't want this to be accessed by law
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 3: enforcement check this box, which even I who's not a
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 3: conspiracy theorist, is gonna sit there and go this fucking bullshit.
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: They're going, that's just for you to feel good about it.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 3: You want to get this box. This will be your
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 3: little uh, this will be your little sleeping bag and
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 3: teddy bear to make you feel comfortable at that check
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 3: the box. You'll be fine. Don't worry. We'll fuck you
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 3: in the morning. When you wake up in your asshole hurts,
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 3: you're like, what is that? No, that's law enforcements. They
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 3: know exactly. They know you stole the vodka in nineteen
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 3: ninety seven. Piece. So anyway, they law enforcement says that
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 3: now they're using this DNA to solve cold cases. They've
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 3: come out and said it. They said it's one of
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 3: their most important tools. And they use forensic and or
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 3: genetic genealogy. Now a typical analysis, they check twenty four
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 3: areas along a DNA strand, and DNA stands for like
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 3: something nucletic acid. I can't remember exactly what it is. Sorry,
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 3: I'm too scientifically illiterate to tell you. But with these
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 3: acid yeah, yeah, and with the new advancements in this tech,
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 3: instead of twenty four areas of the DNA they can
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 3: check thousands. So with the thousands that they checked, that's
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 3: where they can get into your family relationships and they
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 3: link your family relationships to you. That's how they know
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 3: who you are according to your family. And some of
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 3: these cold cases, the way they're figuring it out with
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 3: fa families is they go, well, we know this person's name,
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 3: but somehow they died in nineteen oh five or somehow
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 3: they were born in nineteen oh five and they're still
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 3: alive and there's no recollection of their death. But we
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 3: have a DNA sample, and we know all their family
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 3: members that have died, and we know the living ancestors
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 3: of those family members, so we now know that you
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 3: are this person through ancestry. Really weird stuff, and they're
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 3: using it in all. Almost all cold cases are using
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 3: this information. So if you think that you're spinning into
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 3: a cup and they're not checking it, if it links
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 3: to a cold case, it's pretty much open season. Yeah,
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 3: they're gonna knock on your door.
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: They're coming for heads.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 3: And what's crazy too is when you are linked to
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 3: these like in the Zarelli case, automatically people think you
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 3: have something to do with something that happened sixty five
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 3: years ago. Yeah, or that you're somehow linked like if
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 3: your parent was a piece of murdering shit that you
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 3: probably suffered through their existence, that now you are that way,
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 3: or that you should suffer for the crimes of whoever.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 3: It's all bullshit. Guys. Don't ever do that to any
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 3: human being. Don't ever hold them accountable for the crimes
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 3: of their parents or siblings or whoever else. Don't do
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 3: that to people. It's just not fair. I know, I
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 3: would never want it done to me. I would never
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 3: do that to anybody else. That's my personal opinion. I
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 3: am going to stick with that.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because it's like you said, the dad probably
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: didn't even know this kid was ever born. So now
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: all of his kids and their grandkids and his cousins
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: and sisters and brothers who never knew this kid existed. Yeah,
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: you have to think that if they did know, they
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: would have come forward and claimed him. They would have
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: said yes, I know, yeah, do you Why would you
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: think that if they saw a picture of that kid
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: that they would just be like, Nope, don't know him.
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: That just doesn't make any sense.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 3: It doesn't And in this particular case, they actually dug
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 3: up Joseph Zarelli again. On April twenty fourth, twenty nineteen,
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 3: they put in a court order to exhume the body
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 3: and a guy named doctor Washburn examined it and he
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 3: obtains the proper amount of DNA in twenty nineteen to
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 3: do this extended family type genealogy like DNA genealogy, So
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 3: they use that and then they use the DNA records
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 3: and there and they're like trying to put this together,
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 3: and they're using like relatives on the birth mother's side,
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 3: and they have the mother's side, but they don't have
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 3: anything from the father side. All of a sudden that
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 3: Augustus Sorelli's niece submitted DNA and it matched Joseph's. Boom,
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 3: they got the father side. All of a sudden, they
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 3: are checking records. Then they find a record of that
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 3: Mary Abel, and then the fathers named Augustus Zarelli on
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 3: the birth certificate. They boom, they knew they had Joseph
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 3: Augustus Sorelli. That's how they figured it all out. Through
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 3: between the records and the DNA everything matched.
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: And wasn't it some lady in Ohio who came up.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 3: I don't know that. I don't know. I know that
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 3: the forensic genealogist's name who figured out et ses extended,
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 3: she had her whole extended genealogy done before the Zarellis
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 3: put in their DNA was Misty Gillis. She is in Ohio,
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 3: so she was and she had the whole mother's side down.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 3: But they didn't have anything for the fathers.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: But they did find the birth certificate.
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 3: Well, they did after gus Cirelli's niece submitted DNA out
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 3: of nowhere they could link that to the sons or
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 3: to Joseph Zarelli's DNA. Guys. This took years, and they
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 3: used they used forensic labs all over the world, like,
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 3: because they didn't even have the technology here, they were
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 3: doing it over in Europe.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: Like.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 3: People just wanted this case solved. And I think we
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 3: have a pretty good idea of so it happened. I
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 3: think those of you who stayed with us and listened
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 3: and wanted to know as much information about this case
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 3: as possible have a pretty good idea of what happened.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 3: You could probably go to bed tonight thinking, you know what,
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 3: this is probably probably what happened. And even though they
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 3: just released the birth father and mother's names about five
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 3: days ago, I want to tell you what people said
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 3: about them, because I think it's fair to say that
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 3: the actual birth parents probably had little to nothing to
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 3: do with anything that happened to this child, unless you
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 3: want to blame people for giving up a child. Okay,
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 3: But Mary Elizabeth Betsy Abele loved skating and dancing and
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 3: had an affinity they said for Italian poise, obviously, and
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 3: she was described as being very beautiful. As I said before,
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 3: she was twenty one years old when she gave birth
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 3: to Joseph Zarelli, and she had a previous daughter that
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 3: she had given up for adoption to a Catholic organization.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 3: After all this, she became a cashier at a place
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 3: called Goldman Theater, and that's where she met her future husband,
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 3: John J. Plunkett. Fast forward, after all this happens and
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 3: the Zarelli kid niece spits into a cup. Two days later,
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 3: five policemen are knocking on all of Mary Abel's sisters doors.
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 3: Every one of them got knocks on their doors. Wow.
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 3: The Able family only learned about this investigation like two
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 3: days before an like national news conference probably an international
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 3: news conference, so they have two days to prepare for
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 3: their names being plastered everywhere. Imagine this being done to you.
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 3: This just, guys, this is fucking crazy. And one relative
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 3: said they're absolutely stunned because they remember getting one of
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 3: the gas utility bills with the picture of the boy
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 3: in it. Oh, having no idea that that child was
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 3: related to them.
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 2: Think about that.
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 3: They remember that.
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: Think about that.
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 3: And unfortunately Mary Abel died all the way back more
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 3: than three years ago, guys, in nineteen ninety one of
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 3: lung cancer from asbestos exposure.
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 3: That's so. Then there's the father, Augustus or quote unquote
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 3: Gus Sarelli. He went by Gus. It was a concrete
• 1:48:06
  Speaker 3: and stonemason, and he was the son of Italian immigrants
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 3: in West Philadelphia. The family's saying they are being attacked
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 3: by every possible media outlet you can imagine right now.
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 3: And the attorney came out and said, all the claims
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 3: are completely baseless, and think about that, you guys. And
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 3: I know I'm saying this as a man, and I'm
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 3: not trying to like throw a victimhood out here, but
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 3: I understand that men are more violent by nature. And
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 3: I understand that this child shares the last name of him.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 3: But let's just use logic for five seconds. How is
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 3: the mother completely scott free, but you're gonna attack the
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 3: father with baseless claims of murder everything.
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: Under the side and did that?
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 3: Motherfucker probably didn't even know that the child ever even existed.
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 2: And she probably named him and thank god she did
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: after him.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 3: Because fathers have no I mean, fathers have zero saying
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 3: everything that goes on in the beginning of child's life, Okay,
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 3: we have to accept whatever comes. If the woman decides
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 3: to have the child, we are held responsible for child
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 3: support payments. Okay. If the she decides to have an abortion,
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 3: we have no say over that one way or the other.
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 3: Whether you believe that's right, wrong, or in between doesn't matter.
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 3: That's reality. If she decides to give that child up
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 3: for adoption, there was probably zero he had saying that
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 3: unless she came to him and said, do you want
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 3: to have this kid? And he probably never knew.
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think she probably named him after the
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 2: dad in case she did decide she was going to
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 2: raise him. For the sheer fact of I can prove
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: that this is your kid and you're gonna have to
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: pay me, Suca, yo son after your namesake, pay me Succa.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: And then she was like, you know what, I can't
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 2: even do this, like twenty one.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 3: I don't even know where Augustus Zarelli is right now.
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 3: It's nineteen. You know, I can't get on his Instagram.
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 3: He's not snapchatting me right now. I don't even know
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 3: what job he's on. It's not worth my time. I'm
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 3: not even in love with him. He kind of smelled bad.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 3: I don't really like him that much. There's a guy
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 3: at the movie theater I like a little bit more.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 3: Whatever it is, it doesn't matter. So she decides, you know,
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 3: she's talking to her father, and her father's like, I,
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 3: you know, maybe look for a family to sell the
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 3: child to and make some money mm hmm, and move
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 3: on with your life. You're twenty one years old, you'll
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 3: find a husband, and you know, we'll just bet the
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 3: family and make sure, like we talked about before. But
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 3: this fact that the media instantly went to the father
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 3: with baseless claims, the person who has the least that
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 3: could possibly have to do with it.
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: Other than just in shame to me.
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 3: It just shows the bias all across the board. Father
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 3: man must be the killer, must have had something to
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 3: do with it. It's like the mother had all the
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 3: control in that situation.
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't a dude that the guy pulled over
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: to the side of the road and saw with the
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: trunk popped open. Oh.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 3: I know, but they don't care. They don'n't care. Nobody cares.
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 3: Who cares about facts when we've got feelings here. I've
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 3: got a couple of feelings. They're just those facts out
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 3: of my face.
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 2: They're just basing it on the fact that he was
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 2: the dad, that he had something to do with it, right, I.
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 3: Don't know what they're basing it on, but they're coming
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 3: at the family, and you know, the Czarellis are like, hey, everybody,
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 3: the police are telling us nothing. We have little to
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 3: no information from the police. They're not revealing anything and
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 3: they probably won't because it is a cold case and
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 3: they're not going to tell anybody what they know what
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 3: they don't know. The attorney has come out and said,
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 3: we're not sure Gusts are really ever had any knowledge
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 3: of the child's existence at all. I mean, they can't
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 3: even find information showing that the parents ever met. They
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 3: don't even know how these parents ever met, let alone
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 3: if he ever knew that the child was born.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: Because it was probably like a one night stand like
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: you said, or just they were just hooking up because
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: he lived in the same building as her sister.
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they do know that. They're definitely sure he's never
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 3: had any connection to any harm being done to the child.
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 3: They know that for sure. He's not been anywhere near
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 3: any harm being done to the child.
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 2: He had other kids, and none of them I know
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 2: up in a box.
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 3: I know, and I'll tell you what else I know.
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 3: He was five years older than her than Mary when
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 3: they met and had a kid, so he was probably
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 3: twenty six or twenty seven when she gave birth. Later
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 3: on in his life, he got married in nineteen fifty eight.
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 3: He started a construction in real estate business, and all
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 3: his children loved him. Guys, they loved him. And I
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 3: understand that there's family dynamics out there sometimes to be fair,
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 3: where parents single out one kid for some reason and
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 3: just like abuse the one kid or beat the one
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 3: kid or talk down to the one kid, and we
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 3: don't know why that is. But all his kids loved him,
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 3: and I have a feeling that if he would have known,
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 3: and he would have known this kid was his or whatever,
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 3: it probably would have been the same. Like he probably
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 3: would have loved the kid, you know, and I'm sure
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 3: Mary Abel would have too, if the circumstances would have
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 3: been different. I have a feeling that they would have
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 3: raised the kid and loved the child. Okay, she thought
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 3: what she was doing was right and giving the child
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 3: a better life. That is my opinion, mine too, mine too.
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 3: Gus Zarelli ends up passing away in twenty fourteen at
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 3: the age of eighty seven, and like I said earlier,
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 3: some of his relative relatives actually went to Joseph's rededication
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 3: at Ivy Hill Cemetery when they changed the headstone over.
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 3: So that's the information I have about the parents.
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 2: One thing I also want to include, just in case
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: one of the listeners wants to come sideways that we
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: didn't mention, is how they pointed out that he was supervised.
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 3: That's true. Yes, he was circumcised.
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 2: So I think that happened when the child was in
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 2: the care of the bio.
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 3: Mom, probably like at the hospital. Like yeah, and it
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 3: would make sense, you know, she her first child, the daughter.
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 3: She gave to a Catholic charity, so maybe she was Catholic.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: She was Catholic. Yeah, was it the Catholic charity where
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 2: the boy was found on the outside of No.
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 3: That was just a wayward school for well, but it
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 3: was a wayward house for girls, and it was also
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 3: run by Catholics. The nuns they I think they called
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 3: it like the Sisters of Something, Sisters of Wayward Something
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 3: or whatever ran that place. The name I don't I
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 3: think I have it in my note somewhere, but I
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 3: don't have it in front of me. But it was Catholic,
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 3: but it wasn't like a charity for like adoption.
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: I just you know the whole story. Thank god it's
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: been solved, you know. But this was a dicey area
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: of town where people were dumping trash anyways, So she
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 2: probably picked that spot because she knew it would be
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 2: a while before they found him.
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 3: In the time of the year. Mm hmmm. It was
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 3: hard to pinpoint exactly when he was dumped, how long
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 3: he'd been there, how long he had been dead. As
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 3: far as decomposition, you have less insects at that time.
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 3: The body's not gonna smell for a while I mean,
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 3: whether she thought that or not, but they didn't try
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 3: to bury it's over.
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: It's just the total disregard for human life. And again
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 2: that's these sick petos and all this. They do disregard
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 2: human life. So it just fits her whole demeanor.
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 3: You have to be a completely different type of person,
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 3: and they blend in very well. And I truly don't
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 3: understand it. I really can't. Like, I think a lot
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 3: of fascination people have with stuff like this is just
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 3: the mentality of how different you have to be.
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 2: To do it, the mentality and the spirituality behind.
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 3: It, how detached you are from things like how detached
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 3: you are from understanding another human beings, humanity or existence
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 3: or whatever. I mean, Can I kill animals? Yes? I
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 3: can to eat, you know, if I have to eat?
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 3: Can I kill an animal? I can personally do that.
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 3: Maybe some other people can't even do that. But when
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 3: I look at somebody that kills animals for fun or
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 3: gets some kind of enjoyment hell now out of torturing something, Nope,
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 3: that takes us special type of person.
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: On that point, I feel like if he didn't bash
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: his head on the tub or the wall wherever he
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: ended up bashing his head that killed him. This would
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: have continued for years, you guys, just like with Martha. Oh,
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 2: you know, but.
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 3: They didn't even have a plan. I don't think they
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 3: ever had a plan of putting this boy in school,
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 3: teaching him anything.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 2: He was going to be like a dungeon person.
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 3: Yep, and probably would have died eventually of malnutrition or
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 3: something or some disease or infection or.
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 2: That's why he wasn't vaccinated. M hm.
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 3: But what, here's the thing, what are these surgical scars? Lord?
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 3: If we know whatever was she working on.
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: Him, she was like cutting him and stuff.
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 3: She's down there for long, doing god only knows what,
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 3: for years.
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 2: And that also goes along with what Martha was saying,
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 2: because you know, she's talking about her mom going down
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: in the basement for hours and hours and hours and
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 2: then popping back up and then we find these scars
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: all over the kid. It's like, well, yeah, what was
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 2: she doing down there cutting on him and stuff? It's
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 2: sick and.
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 3: Whatever she was doing wasn't for his benefit. I can
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 3: be sure of that.
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm mm hm.
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 3: Nothing was ever done for that kid's benefit. No, And
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 3: at that age, they're complete dependents. They need somebody else
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 3: to do everything for them.
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 2: You know what I just thought of, Brian. They probably
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 2: went to Marjorie's school and asked if anyone had seen him,
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 2: because they went to all the schools. You remember.
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 3: Oh, I'm sure that Davis family got that picture in
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 3: the gas bill MM four hundred and some thousand of
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 3: those things sent out, and it was the talk of
• 2:01:22
  Speaker 3: the town, and it was on television. It was nationwide,
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 3: and it's in magazines and it's been talked about for
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 3: years since.
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 2: I bet she went to all the candlelight visuals. I
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 2: bet she went to all of the you know, she
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: probably was sitting around in the school lunch area and
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 2: was like, can you believe about that boy that they found?
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, these are sick, twisted, depraved animals.
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 3: Well, and the thing is too and I know we're
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 3: again we're speculating, But the question comes up is you
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 3: know it never bothered anybody? That never bothered either one
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 3: of them enough to want to admit to it, right
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 3: two to confide in another human being about it that
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 3: ever came forward. So it gives me this suspicion because
• 2:02:16
  Speaker 3: you enjoy that sort of thing, did you also enjoy
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 3: the fact that you know you killed them and got
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 3: away with it. Did you get this little bit of
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 3: satisfaction every time somebody brought it up, you knew you
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 3: were the one who did it, so you you got
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 3: away with it. Nothing ever happened to you.
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 2: And you know they can keep secrets because it was
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 2: the husband and the wife.
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 3: It was their little thing. It was their little you
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 3: know some some people. You know, everybody's got secrets. Everybody's
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 3: got their little thing. It's always like the quiet ones
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 3: that have the sexual you know things going on there,
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 3: the swingers you didn't know about or they're but shit,
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 3: all that stuff's legal. You guys want to share partners,
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 3: You want to do what your adults do. What the
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 3: hell you want, that's your business. You know, you can
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 3: have boyfriends and girlfriends on the side or or geez
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 3: or whatever. It's all adults making consensual decisions and living
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 3: their lives perfectly. Fine, do whatever the hell you want.
• 2:03:25
  Speaker 3: But when it comes to unconsensual kids and your little
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 3: sexual pedophiliar ring, and you're having people come over, like
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 3: Martha says, and there's a whole group of people that
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 3: would come over and take turns doing their sick and
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 3: depraved shit to children. I mean, we still deal with
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 3: this stuff today. There's pedophilia all over the place, and
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 3: people are all over society, some of them are amongst us,
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 3: and we have no clue every day.
• 2:04:01
  Speaker 2: How many of those people though in that ring that
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 2: Martha was talking about, saw the picture and knew who
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: that boy was and never said anything because they'd have
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 2: to say how they knew.
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 3: Him, mm hmm, and it would all be exposed, and
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 3: their pedophilia would be exposed. Yes, And they knew if
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 3: they said something, And that's part of it. They all
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 3: know they've got something on each other, yes, And they're
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 3: all in that place. And let's face it, I even
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 3: just saw something today on it, and there's a little
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 3: piece of me that it's not a little piece of me.
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna be blatantly honest with everybody out there. When
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 3: I hear about these people getting killed in prison, I
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 3: don't give a shit me either. I don't give a
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 3: I don't care in the least. I don't want to
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 3: pretend like I care when I hear that. The other
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 3: prisoners don't want to be around them. Other prisoners say,
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 3: I have kids at home, Yeah, I fucked up. Yeah
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 3: I sold drugs. Yeah I killed somebody that you know,
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 3: I caught fucking my wife or whatever. Uh. And now
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 3: I'm in prison serving my time. But I don't want
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 3: to be in here with this fucking maggot that brags
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 3: every single day about molesting children in front of me.
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 3: So I sharpened a toothbrush and stabbed them in the
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 3: next I don't care. I don't shed one. As a
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 3: matter of fact, I'm like, they should kind of give
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 3: these guys medals. I know, bro, I know that's how
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 3: I am. M M, that's one hundred percent how I am.
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 3: I'm like, fuck them, who cares? You can't straight them
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 3: in prison. I don't give a shit.
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 2: And they're proud of what they've done.
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 3: They are. They brag about it in prison. That's one
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 3: of the things that a lot of other prisoners will say,
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 3: Like I couldn't listen to it anymore. Like I've listened
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 3: to go back and forth and like rub it in
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 3: people's faces. Some of them rub it in the other
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 3: prisoner's face. You think that they try to keep it
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 3: on the d L and some of them probably do.
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 3: But I've heard stories about them, like watching kids cartoons
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 3: in prison and then like talking about how what they
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 3: do to kids in front of everybody, Like, are you
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 3: that fucking stupid? You think these people in here just
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 3: because they're prisoners don't have families that they actually give
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 3: a shit about. Yeah, some of them don't, but a
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 3: lot of them do.
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 2: But think about the moral compass that even a murderer
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 2: who shot somebody, or who was doing a drug deal
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 2: that went wrong, or somebody who did this or that,
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 2: they can't even stand pedophiles.
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 3: Nobody can. Dude, if I'm in there because I didn't
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 3: pay my taxes and you're gonna stick me in a
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 3: fucking cell with this guy, are you kidding me? That
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 3: would put me on Do? I have three kids and
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 3: you're gonna sit there and brag every day about how
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 3: you like touch a little blue as genitals or did
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 3: this or that to a girl. I know that that's underage,
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 3: and I'm gonna sit there and I'm supposed to stomach
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 3: it every day. I'm supposed to serve my time, and yeah,
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 3: maybe you know, somebody will be like, hey, I'm gonna
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 3: make you my bitch or something, Okay, whatever, whatever, you know,
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 3: I'm serving my time. But I have to sit in
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 3: there and listen to somebody fucking talk about that ship,
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 3: I'd be sharpening the toothbrush. And I'm perfectly saying that's
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 3: what I got.
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 2: Jeffrey Dahmer.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 3: Mmm.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 2: They killed Jeffrey Dahmer because he was bragging he was
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 2: getting fan mail.
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 3: A lot of those people do. It's crazy, you know.
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 3: There there's a little group out there that that love
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 3: the serial killers. And like when I say love, I
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 3: mean they're not just interested in the story, like they've
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 3: fallen in love with them for what they have done.
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm hm. They think that because they're in prison,
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 2: if they wrote them a letter and they write back
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 2: to them that you know, oh and they're in love
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 2: with them, that they wouldn't have been a victim if
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 2: that dude ever got their hands on them.
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 3: Or they don't even care. It's like this perverted fantasy
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 3: of theirs, Like they're like, yeah, kind of like you know,
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I kind of like my butt smacked. Well,
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 3: guess what. They're a little difference between getting your butt
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 3: smacked and a little bit of bondage and getting stabbed
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 3: eighty four times by a stereal killer and beck that
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 3: is sexy. Okay, that's not how you want to get
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 3: wet people.
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 2: That's a good note to end it on. Everybody was
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 2: going on with the Cleveland Twell podcast.
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 3: Oh, I will Hey, anybody wants to come on over
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 3: to the Cleveland twelve. We invite every one. We've been
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 3: interviewing the last small businesses and uh talking to artists
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 3: in the Cleveland area. And we're always doing little, uh
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 3: different things, you know, just just talking to people and
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 3: keeping it rolling. And I think everything's been going really
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 3: good and it's been very interesting. You know, your brother,
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 3: my cousin, Dave is my co host, and we keep
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 3: it light and we keep it very funny and entertaining
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 3: and we learn a lot along the way. Mm hmm.
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 3: Anybody who wants to come over and check us out sometime. Now,
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 3: we don't get as deep as the boy in the
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 3: box over there, and we don't start talking about sharpening
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 3: our toothbrushes and who we're gonna stab. But that's it's
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 3: off the table because we will talk about anything over there.
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 2: So I think you guys should cover the Torso murders.
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we we we should. I think we should dedicate
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 3: an episode too. There's a couple of people that are
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 3: in Cleveland that have written actual true crime novels about
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 3: well not just about the Torso murders, about other things
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 3: that have happened in Cleveland. We've had very strange Cleveland cases.
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 3: Here's a couple of the national ones that I do.
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 3: I call the detective that worked on a couple of
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 3: these cases, but never heard anything back. So I emailed
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 3: them and never got back to me. That but one.
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 3: And they even made a movie about Ariel Castro and Aero.
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 3: Castro held three women for years prisoner in his house
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 3: and he would impregnate them and neighbors. Yes, they ended
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 3: up eventually tearing his house down and he hung himself
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 3: in jail before he ever went to trial. But if
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 3: you're interested in that case, his name was Ariel Castro.
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 3: Crazy story. Three women abducted and everybody thought they were dead,
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 3: and then all three of them are found in his house. Yes,
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 3: and then there was another guy named Anthony Sowell out here.
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 3: He was a serial killer. This is another recent one.
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 3: There's documentaries that were recent. Maybe they're still on Amazon
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 3: if you guys want to watch the story. He went
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 3: after women had like cocaine or more crack addictions on
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 3: the East side of Cleveland, which is more of a
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 3: ghetto in Cleveland, and he figured, hey, nobody cares about
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 3: these women. I'm gonna go after him. And one of
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 3: the women that survives craziest story, she's high. They've been
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 3: smoking crack together. She's high as can be, and they've
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 3: been like having sex in bed or whatever, and she's
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 3: like the place smelled really bad or whatever. So she
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 3: starts like she knows she's high as fuck, but she's
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 3: like trying to walk to the bathroom. Says she got
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 3: to get to the bathroom, and she's walking. She turns
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 3: to the right and sees on her way to the
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 3: bathroom but bought different body parts just hanging from the
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 3: ceiling and she's like, am I high on seeing this?
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 3: Or is it really there or whatever? Runs down the
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 3: stairs like screaming, runs out into the street. She's like
• 2:12:31
  Speaker 3: naked running down the street, high on fucking crack. So
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 3: by the time she sees police, they're like, Okay, we
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 3: got a crack, We got we got another naked crack here.
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 3: So they don't believe nurt that, she says, unfortunate because
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 3: when they get when they when they get back to
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 3: the house, they realize this motherfuckers kill everybody and buried
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 3: them all over the house under the house. The place
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 3: smelled so bad they were like blaming it. There was
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 3: they started on a sausage factory that was just down
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 3: the street, and this sausage factory was like changing their
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 3: their Uh. They're ways down there trying to figure out
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 3: why this place is so bad. Meanwhile, Anthony soelse killed
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 3: everybody in the neighborhood and buried him on his propperty.
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 3: The bodies are stinking.
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 2: Everything up thanks to a gric.
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 3: And if somebody, if anybody would to just listened to
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 3: the naked cracket run it down the street, we wouldn't
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 3: have had these problems.
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 3: But you know, I mean, I know it's funny because
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 3: it is funny to hear that, but it's the reality
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 3: that was what I want to get some I want
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 3: to get that story.
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 2: You need to cover it on the Cleveland Till podcast.
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 3: And what I do, I'm gonna let you guys all
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 3: know and come on over for a little bit of
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 3: that information.
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 2: I'll share it on my end if if you, if
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 2: you and my brother make an episode about that, I'll
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 2: share all the links on my Instagram, so the listeners
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 2: can go and check that out.
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 3: And I hope we took this heavy topic and you
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 3: guys were able to get even if it was a
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 3: dark laugh. Get a couple of dark laughs, because yeah,
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 3: but I hate I hate everybody, all you Cosmic Peach listeners. Hey, guys,
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 3: I always appreciate you guys as your feedback on our episodes.
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 3: Thanks a lot for anything nice you've ever said about me.
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 3: I do appreciate it because I do take a lot
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 3: of time to research these topics. I love coming on
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 3: Cosmic Peach, but then I also hate coming on Cosmic
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 3: Peach because like three weeks, I'm like diving into all
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 3: this information and all these details. I'm writing all these notes.
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 3: It takes me two hours. I organize my notes before
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 3: I come on. So I hope you guys got something
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 3: out of it.
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no big deal. Yeah, just three weeks of your
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 2: life down the tubes. But that's all right, it's all
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 2: for the episode.
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 3: It's all for the episode. And you know what, in
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 3: this particular case, I hope that this information gets out
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 3: there to more people, and those who listen to it
• 2:15:52
  Speaker 3: share what I discovered with other people. And be like, hey,
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 3: this is what happened, and this is what we know,
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 3: and also know that there is a book written about
• 2:16:03
  Speaker 3: M's experience in detail. Well where they go into she
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 3: goes into even more detail than what I listed about
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 3: what happened to quote unquote Jonathan, but you can get
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 3: a good picture of like what she says happened.
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 2: And well, I think what I'll do is if I
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 2: can find the book on Amazon, I might put the
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 2: link in the show notes in case somebody wants to
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 2: go and get that book and read it for themselves
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 2: and just check that out. Oh yeah, I'll also put
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 2: the Cleveland Schwill podcast in the show notes in case
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 2: somebody wants to check out your great work over there.
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 3: Oh I'd love that.
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 2: Love.
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 3: I love to have any of you guys come over
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 3: and listen whenever you want, send me a message on
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 3: Instagram because I'm just a normal person working then the
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 3: nine to five, just like you. So anything you guys
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 3: ever say, constructive criticism or otherwise, I list so same here.
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 2: Well, thank thank you so much for joining us tonight, Brian,
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 2: and thank you to the listeners, and we will catch
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 2: you on the next one.