Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Special Episode - ICE, Intimidation & Trump’s Politics of Fear EXPLODE In Minneapolis

Transcript

Special Episode - ICE, Intimidation & Trump’s Politics of Fear EXPLODE In Minneapolis · The Chuck ToddCast

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  Speaker 1: Hello there, I'm Chuck Todd and this is a quick
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: little special episode if you will, or mini episode of
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: the Chuck Podcast full discolo. I've been on a bit
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: of a family a bit of a family vacation that
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: is now done. But let's just say the last thirty
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: six hours of the vacation of my time off has
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: been it's been very hard to focus and concentrate considering
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: the tinderbox that is the United States of America at
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: the moment. It is. Everything surrounding what happened, what has
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: happened in Minneapolis is troublesome on levels that I don't
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: think we're fully appreciating because of everything this incident has exposed. Right,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: this incident is exposed all of these weaknesses that we've
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: all been seeing and wondering. At what point does it
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: lead to some sort of crack up? Right this, let's
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I think we everybody is forgetting the context of this situation. Okay,
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  Speaker 1: the incident itself, the fact that there is nobody in
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: the administration that wants to say, let's investigate this and
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: let's reassure American citizens that they aren't going to get
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  Speaker 1: arbitrarily killed hard stop. There is nobody in this administration
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: that wants to say, hey, is do we know for
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: sure that any that there and instead we have It's
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: one thing for people who do not have insider information
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: to use the Internet to speculate, to slow to use
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: YouTube to do slow motion tracking of what may or
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: may not have happened in this incident. It is another
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  Speaker 1: thing for the sitting vice president of the United States
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: who does know that there is going to be body
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  Speaker 1: camera footage that's available that is going to know that
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: they'll probably be audio that perhaps ICE already has that
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: can actually shine a light on more details of what
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: happened in those crucial moments between the incident of where
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: these ICE agents approached the car and when the car
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: began to leave. But to have the Vice President just
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: idly speculate and assume one person's in the right, the
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: law enforcement official, and one person's in the wrong, the
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: now dead American citizen. And the fact that we have
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: no leadership in this country that wants to say, let's
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  Speaker 1: see if we can get all the facts, Let's see
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  Speaker 1: if we can figure out what exactly happened in this
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: specific situation. But we also need more context beyond that
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  Speaker 1: we have recruited, because here's there are a variety of
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  Speaker 1: ways that this perhaps went south. One is a presumption
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  Speaker 1: of guilt by the ICE officer over what the woman
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: was doing in that position. Two was sort of the
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: nature of whatever protests may or may not have been
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: organized in that moment. But there's a larger thing that
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: has happened over the last year that I think we
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: have not spent enough time on, and that is how
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: the United States government, specifically the Department of Homeland Security
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  Speaker 1: has gone about recruiting officers to become members of ICE.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: I watch a lot of college football. Many of you
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: know that. I I'm obsessed about college football, and the
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: beauty of what's happened these days is a lot of
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: times now with college football. Because of how hard it
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: is to advertise in a broad spect, to try to
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: identify and target a broad demographic group, you get a
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: lot of I get to see a lot of what
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: I call local advertising in markets that I don't live in. Well,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: one of those, one of these ad campaigns over the
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: last six months, particularly that air during college football, was
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: recruiting local law enforcement officers to join ICE. And it
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: was the language that was used to recruit. They were
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: not interested in recruiting officers whose goal was to become
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: members of their community, to protect and to serve the
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: community as a whole. Instead, they were almost war recruitment videos.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Attention Seattle law enforcement officers, are you tired of having
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: to stand down? Well, essentially, they wanted to. They targeted
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: specifically in blue areas, in in urban areas, target local
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: law enforcement to leave local policing, which, of course, by
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: the way, has only undermines the ability to defend local communities.
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  Speaker 1: And we know we have a shortage of police officers
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: in this country, and so the administration actually to take
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: police officers, active duty police officers and essentially grab them
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: out of communities and using language like you, are you
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: frustrated that you cannot do your job the way you
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: think you should be able to do your job because
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: of so called sanctuary city policies or a local policy
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: that you don't like, Come join ICE. The point being
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: is what kind of officer is the Department of Homeland
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Security trying to recruit? What kind of environment are they trying?
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Are they telling these officers that they're facing? Right, the
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: recruitment videos were always you're going to go have to
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: get the worst of the worst in order to deport
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: these folks that have invaded America. So you have set
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: and created and essentially used propaganda to almost fuel rage
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: into the system where the officers are being told, these
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: people are against you, these people are all criminals, and
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: anybody standing in your way is part of the problem. Now,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: do I know there are people in this country who
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: actually believe this as an ideology? I do. We're a large,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: diverse country, three hundred and fifty million people, We're going
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: to have a lot of divergent views about whether we
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: should be an actual democracy or whether we should be
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: an authoritarian regime. Trust me, there are a whole bunch
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: of people that have gotten suckered into the MAGA movement
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: who accept the premise that and maybe democracy isn't what
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: it's cracked up to be. Not everybody should have the
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: same rights. And so when you look back at the
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: situation in Minneapolis, first of all, it's tragic somebody died
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: that didn't have to die. And to watch the Vice
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: president in particular, rationalize this death rather than lamented the
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: death is really alarming. As a citizen of the United States,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: forget anything else about what any of us do for
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: a living. I thought this was somebody. I thought the
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: vice president valued life. You should value life here. What
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: happened was a tragedy. Let's get to the bottom of it.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: A truly transparent and small d democratic administration would want
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: all the facts out there. If you want to have
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: trust in the community, if you want the community to
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: help you find criminals, then you need to prove that
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: you're willing to follow the law when you do it.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: We don't know whether this officer followed the law, but
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: the idea that if somebody Hannocks in a situation and
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: takes off, that it could get misinterpreted and become a
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  Speaker 1: death sentence for them is not the United States of
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  Speaker 1: America that any of us thought we were living in.
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  Speaker 1: I'm not going to sit here and presume we know
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  Speaker 1: the facts on the ground. I don't. I wasn't there.
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  Speaker 1: But here's what I do know. We have an administration
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: that is fomenting rage in this country. This there has
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: been an intentional intentionality to which cities have been targeted
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: by ice Right. They have been intentionally going into places
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: where there are democratic governors or democratic mayors so they
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: can have confrontations. The confrontation is a feature, not a bug.
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  Speaker 1: What is wrong with this policy? This is most Americans
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: want safe and secure border, want safe and secure neighborhoods,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: and want their constitutional rights respected and observed. That's true
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  Speaker 1: of progressives, and I think that's true of many conservatives.
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  Speaker 1: But to go around and just you and not sit
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: here and expect that you're going to that the when
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  Speaker 1: you sort of target a community, assume the worst about
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: said community. You want confrontation, and this administration, I fear,
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  Speaker 1: has been looking in order to create confrontations that that
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: will rationalize ramping up other contentious policies. Are we going
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: to suddenly violate the Fourth Amendment? I mean, every once
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: in a while, Jade Vance keeps talking about going door
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: to door, Caroline Leavitt is talking about ice agents, going
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: to order, or what are we doing here? This is
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  Speaker 1: not the United States of America that any of us
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: we're growing up in. But more importantly, we just have
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  Speaker 1: no political leadership here. Nobody wants to turn the temperature down.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: This administration constantly wants to turn the temperature up. They
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: want more confrontation. This is not an administration that wants
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: to bring this country together. This is not about left
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: versus right. This is about right versus wrong and the
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: inability to want to turn the temperature down. We don't
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: have leaders right now in position in these key positions
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: of leadership heading up federal law enforcement agencies, who actually
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: want to bring the country together, who actually want to
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: make sure what they're doing is legal. You know, one
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: of the more alarming developments of the last twenty four
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: hours in this incident was the Tom Homan interview with CBS.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: So he does an interview with CBS, who says, you know,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: we shouldn't jump to conclusions. I don't have all the facts.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: It's not what his boss, the Department of Homeland Security
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Secretary Dave Christy Nome, just went out there with a
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: version of events that no one knows is accurate or not.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: There's plenty of video out there that appears to contradict
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: her version of events. They don't have video that seems
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: to reinforce the version of events she claims, or the
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: version of events the President's been trying to sell. Tom
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Holman made the mistake of actually acknowledging that he didn't
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: have all the facts. Then he realizes, oh, no, facts
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: don't matter here. The message is everything first, and he
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: had to backtrack. He went out of his way on
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: social media say oh I did this interview, but and
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: just so you know, I'm standing by all of this.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Without an investigation, no rational police, local police force would
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: immediately jump to this conclusion. Police unions do sometimes, but
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: not the actual people who actually run these police forces.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Not most normal chiefs of police would behave this way.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: And it comes back to why doesn't this administration value
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: the loss of a life of an American citizen. I've
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: seen some try to rationalize this woman's death based on, well,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: the fact that they didn't agree with him politically. What
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: about whose responsibility is it? Every Is it not the
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: responsibility of a law enforcement officer to actually want to
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: de escalate a situation. It seems as if the explanation
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: here is that, hey, this officer feared for their life,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: so hey, any shooting is justified? Are you kidding me?
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Is this where going? And then every law enforcement officer
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: is going to be believed. Hey, I'm sorry. I'm a
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: trust but verified person for everybody. I respect law enforcement,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: but I know my rights. I know there are good
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: cops who make mistakes, and I know there are bad
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: cops that are aggressive just because they want to be.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: I know that there are American citizens who make mistakes
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: who are mostly good people. And I know there are
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: plenty of citizens out there who want to create anarchy
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: and who want to inflame a situation. But it's my
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: understanding every police officer I've known in my life is
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: not anxious to inflame a situation. But we seem to
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: be trying to recruit and you again, I go back
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: to these recruitment videos, because again, I don't think enough
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: has been made about why we're here. Why is Minneapolis
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: being targeted? Well, we know why it's being targeted, because
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: there's an aggressive campaign to demonize the entire Somalia community
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: that cannot be separated from this situation. If there are
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: people that broke the law ripping off the US government
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: with subsidies, they should be the book should be thrown
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: at them. Do I think that the Walls administration was
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: too politically correct in how they handled this issue with
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: these daycare senators? You're right, You're goddamn right. I believe that.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't give any right to suddenly declare an
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: entire community because guess what, there's plenty of Native born
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Americans who rip off the government too. Check out Social
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Security disability if you want to figure that one out.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: So trying to just demonize an immigrant group for political reasons, right, again,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: we know why it's being done. We know why there's
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: a surge of ICE agents into Minneapolis to create a
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: confrontation for everybody to see it. None of these attempts
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: have been none of these attempts to deport people who
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: are not supposed to be here have been done with
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: any sort of hope that you want to keep, Actually,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: you want to minimize the amount of, say, community interference
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: that could take place. There seems to almost be an
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: attempt to maximize exposure for these so called raids so
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: that they can show the world what they're doing, regardless
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: of whether this is legal or not, regardless of the
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: people that they've decided to target, our American citizens or not.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: And guess what. American citizens have the right to protest.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Law enforcement does not have the right to kill protesters.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: Now we should have a full investigation, and guess what
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: the FEDS and the state ought to first of all,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: be doing a joint investigation. The idea that the FEDS
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: aren't going to let the state of Minnesota as part
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: of this investigation seems to be an attempt to only
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: reinforce the notion that the community isn't going to believe
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: the outcome of that. And why would the federal government
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: want that? Don't you want the public to believe your
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: version of events after an investigation. The minute you've decided
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: to cut out local investigators from this, you're only going
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: to reinforce the notion that nobody's going to believe anything
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: on this, which brings me to the issue of how
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: we all consume information. We're getting to the point where
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: whatever you want to believe, you can find something in
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: social media to support your versse of events. We don't
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: have any collective belief in some sort of you know,
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: sort of above partisan truth. That's this is why it
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: feels like we're in a tinderbox. And when you have
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: a president of the United States that is not interested
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: in de escalating, a vice president of the United States
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: that went out of his way to escalate, he's making
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: a political decision to essentially make sure these folks know
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: where he stands, rather than lamenting the death of an
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: American citizen. It's almost as if there was a celebration
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: that this woman died and they get to use it
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: for a piece of propaganda. What are we doing here
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: and how has this become sort of accepted. I know
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: there are whole bunch of members of Congress, particularly Republican
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: members of Congress, who are appalled that the behavior of
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: this administration, whether it's the absurd rhetoric about Greenland. Literally,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're gonna blow NATO up here. I mean
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: you know, the president is in a current state of
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: mind where it apparent appears that he believes and this
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: is to me, the most dangerous aspect of this presidency
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: that we're in. This episode of the Chuck Podcast is
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  Speaker 1: running out, as if the sand in his hourglass is
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: about to go away. It's a dangerous moment for us
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: right now. I think there are a handful of Republicans
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: in Congress who realize we're in a very dangerous situation
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: with this president who seems to be really nothing, seems
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: to he doesn't believe in a single guard rail. And
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: by the way, all this happening on the anniversary of
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: January sixth, where you literally have an administration that's trying
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: to trying to whitewash that part of history because assaulting
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: you know, that was one that was an assault of
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: police officers in law enforcement that they seem to be
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: comfortable with. January sixth, rioters were just expressing their First
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Amendment rights, but not Renee Good if that's what she
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: was doing there. Again, everybody's jumping to conclusions. I'd like
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: to actually get a non partisan investigation to figure out
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: everything that happened there. We know that there's going to
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: be will they're better be bodycam footage and some audio
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: so that we can actually know what's going on, and
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: we have any of eyewitness accounts, none of which seem
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: to match the story that the administration is telling. But again,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I think we have to come back to we're in
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: a really precarious situation when it comes to political leadership
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: in this country. We have people with power who are
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: not interested in de escalating. Where's that going to lead us?
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Even if you have more Republican members of Congress saying hey,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: there needs to be a bit more guardrails in the
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: executive branch. Is this executive branch going to listen? Are
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: they going to care? I think JD. Vince just laughed
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: at the War Powers Act, as if the legislative branch
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: exerting its Article one constitutional authority was somehow a laughing matter. Look,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I he's got a vision for power and the presidency.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: That is his vision. It is not a small the
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: democratic vision. And that's something else that I think we're
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: all learning given the reaction to this situation. But I
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: keep coming back to the uncomfortable fact that nobody seems
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: to be in this administration lamenting the death of this woman.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: This is not where a vast majority of Americans are,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: and this is why we're right back to the chaos.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that I think that
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: the Republican Party in the I don't want to say
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: the Republican Party, I think Republicans. I think there are
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: many Republicans who know what Trump is doing is bad politics.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: There are a whole bunch of people in this West
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: wing who don't accept the premise that the only reason
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: they're back in office is because the voters wanted more
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Trump one point zero. They didn't want this new version
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: of Trump. That's not what they voted for. And that's
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: why police Republicans are in huge trouble, and plenty of
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: elective Republicans know it. That's why you have a growing
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: number of House Republicans breaking with the president on healthcare,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: growing number of Senate Republicans breaking with the president on
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Greenland and Venezuela. There are a plenty of rational, normal,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: everyday Americans who happen to be Republicans and Conservatives and
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: elected office who say what Trump is doing is neither
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Republican nor conservative, and more importantly, it's going to absolutely
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: screw up their political futures. Now. I'm not going to
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: go down the alarmist road about whether we're going to
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: have elections and all this stuff. I think our democracy
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: is both fragile and strong, if that's possible to be.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: There's definitely a fragility to it that I think we
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: sometimes forget. But I also believe that there is an
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: endurance about it that is going to stick. But most
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Americans don't like what they saw in Minnesota. Most Americans
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: are uncomfortable when law enforcement panics. Look, it's one thing
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: for an untrained American citizen to panic, it's another thing
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: when a supposedly trained law enforcement officers panics and somebody dies.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: And I fear that's the situation we had in Minnesota. Okay,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: I am not assuming the personal worst of anybody in
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: this situation, but it's possible you had somebody who panicked.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: It's likely that we've And when you look at the
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: larger context of how we got here and the recruitment
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: of ICE agents it's been taking place over the last
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: six months, the propaganda that has been used and then
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: they've been put on the streets, the dehumanization, the d
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: humanizing rhetoric that is constantly used out of people that
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: that have been handed authority. It's part of the larger
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: problem here. I know sometimes it sounds naive to say,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: can't we can't we take a step back here? Why
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: can't we de escalate. I'm not going to sit here
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: and presume I know all the facts of what happened.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: All I know is I want a trustworthy investigation there,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: and unfortunately this administration doesn't have the credibility to provide one. Now,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: I know, when my credibility is questioned, I want to
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: go out of my way to give folks the opportunity
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: to essentially verify whether I'm telling the truth or not.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: I'm skeptical when people are afraid of an investigation. I'm
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: skeptical when people are afraid when facts go against their
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: political ideology and they don't want to show that maybe
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: they maybe something went wrong on their side. Again, I
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: go back, you know the whole Tom Holman, you know,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: one of the it was such a tell and it's
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: it's sort of I don't want to say it's gone unoticed,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: it's gone notice, but it's sort of a secondary part
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: of the story in the moment. But the fact that
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: his initial instinct was to say what you'd hope anybody
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: in leadership would say at a time like, I don't
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: have all the facts. I got to figure out what happened.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: I want to see the bodycam footage. I want to
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: know Eyewinness accounts. We've got to have a full investigation.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Anytime there's an officer involved shooting, that's what you do.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: And then he realizes he looked too responsible, but more importantly,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: he was not. He was off script from the propaganda
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: nonsense that Christy Noman put out, the propaganda nonsense that
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: the vice president would put out, the propaganda nonsense that
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: President Trump was trying to sell to people. Again, you
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: know this is and this goes back to something it's
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: and I think that you know, what the left has
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: to understand is there's going to be collective outrage at
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: how this administration handled the situation in Minnesota. That doesn't
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: mean they don't want secure borders. But what the right
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem to understand is that just like the public
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: was upset when they didn't think people were following the
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: law when it came to immigration, they certainly want law
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: enforcement to have to follow the law. And we don't
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: know if this person did. And I do know this
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: when I look at all the circumstantial evidence, again, go
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: read some of those ads, Hey Seattle and the type
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: of recruitment videos that that have been used to recruit
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: ICE officers. What kind of environment has been created within ICE.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I'm not somebody who thinks we should abolish ICE, but
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: it certainly appears as if we need some new leadership
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: and we need a better code of conduct because the
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: encouragement of sort of rough housing and all of this
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: undemocratic stuff. This is not who we are. This is
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: thuggery behavior that we know the Russians do. This is
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: thuggery behavior that we denounce when the Venezuelans do it,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: when the Iranian leadership does it. Why are we why
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: even come close to having an entity of the United
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: States government behave in ways that can be equated to
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: authoritarian regimes. So, look, we're in a We're I've said
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: this before. I've iscillated all the time between trying to
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: you know, I know, you see my friends at the
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: bulwark and they're in one place, my friends in the
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: dispatcher in another place. Everybody is concerned about the direction
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: that President Trump has been taking us rhetorically, that many
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: and you know, you have all these crazy grifters like
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Megan Kelly, who's just trying to weaponize every situation in
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: order to somehow gain more followers. We have this terrible,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: you know, algorithm incentive structure that's been created in the
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: social media world that gives people only a feed that
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: reinforces what they already believe and genuinely makes it very
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: difficult to find out the truth. And now we have
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: a government it seems to be not just okay with
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: our inability to find out the truth, but exploiting it. So, look,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: we're The thing that concerns me is the intentionality of
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: the community of Minneapolis being targeted trying to create a confrontation.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: It's pretty clear there are elements inside this administration that
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: are looking for confrontations, looking for excuses to ratchet things
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: up more, rather than wanting to de escalate a situation,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: rather than maybe bringing more people into the fold so
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: that everybody understands, Okay, look, we do we have an
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: illegal do we have a problem with with with with
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: our immigration system? We do going about it by dehumanizing
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: anybody that was trying to get here? Is that the
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: way to do this? Weaponizing fear is that the way
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: to do this. And here's the thing politically. This is
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: such a loser for the administration. You know, again, some
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: of the goals the public is supportive of the tactics,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: they're appalled by, and that's pretty much been par for
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: the course for the Trump administration. And this is this
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: isn't going to be good politics for them at all,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: which is one part of it. So then it's like,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: why are they doing this? They think this is good
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: politics for them, and I fear that they are getting
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: a feedback loop that is even more bizarre than the
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: feedback loop that we all seem to feel and get
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: sometimes when it comes to social media. So, look, we
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: have a leadership vacuum in this country. It's evident. I
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: think some people are trying to speak out and they don't.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: You know, it's tough to break through. My friend John Kasik,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: God bless him, he's been trying. But then some of
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: the right won't won't hear any of it. They don't
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: want to hear anything he has to say, somebody like him,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Mike Pence. You know, there's this if somehow you're critical
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: of Trump, you're dead to the Republican Party. I mean,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: look what Trump just did to the five Republican senators
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: who chose to symbolically protest the president's authority for military
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: intervention in Venezuela, and the fact that he said it
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: just just the idea that if you question the president,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: you can't be a member of the Republican Party in
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: good standing. So the Republican Party, the leader of the
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Republican Party basically is not interested in any essentially any
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: sort of debate withinside the Republican Party. No disagreement allowed
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: at all, apparently, and if you because you cannot embarrass
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: dear leader. Look, the bigger picture is this isn't this
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: is an administration that is flailing. This is things did
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: not go well in the first year. He's convinced himself
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: that they have gone well, but politically he's in a as bad,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: if not worse position, than Joe Biden was at this
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: point in time. At this presidency, he's facing a midterm
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: political environment that looks disastrous. Looks about as bad as
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: two thousand and six did for Republicans or as bad
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: as twenty ten was for Democrats. My fear is that
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: we're only going to see more of this. I think
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: we're going to see intentional confrontation because I think they
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: think this is this becomes good politics, that if they
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: can incite bad behavior on the left, that it will
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: somehow convince swing voters to give them more undemocratic authority
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: on the right or rationalize undemocratic behavior in government. The
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: good news is that's bad politics, because most Americans still
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: believe we should be a small deed democracy. I know
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: there's a chunk of people who think, eh, we need
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: a benevolent dictator, we need a king. That's a small
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: group of people. And despite perhaps this president's hope or
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: belief that he gets to be that kind of authoritarian leader,
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's even a majority of his in
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: his party, especially if it were a secret ballot, who
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: believe in the same thing. But all I will say
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: is I just ask many of my conservative friends who
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: believe in limited government, who believe in the Fourth Amendment
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: in particular, but all of the Bill of Rights and
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: the entire Constitution. If you believe you're a constitutionalists, speak up.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Don't let this president hijack the conservative movement to weaponize
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: government against American citizens, because right now that's exactly what
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: it looks like is happening. Many Americans feel this way,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: and the irony is I'm old enough to remember when
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: the right felt like it was happening to them, And
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: there is the worst virus we have going on in
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: American politics today is what about is them? And that
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: there's too many people justifying their political beliefs and various
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: political decisions by saying, well, they did it, so why
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: can't I. Two wrongs don't make a right, because sometimes
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: two wrongs end up getting somebody killed who shouldn't have been.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: I'll see in the next episode of podcast