Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #209 - For Azeroth!: "The Life, Death, and Undeath of Sylvanas Windrunner"

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#209 - For Azeroth!: "The Life, Death, and Undeath of Sylvanas Windrunner" · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

0:06
Victory for the Forsaken for Lord are on for the Kirin Tor
0:13
and Dario for calendar, organ. Alias us endure.
0:30
For the alliance. There are other are.
0:43
Hey, guys. This is editing Manny, just The
0:45
Upfront warning. This is a spoiler full episode
0:49
about the latest novel from the World of Warcraft series The
0:53
Sylvanas novel. I'm not in this episode.
0:56
This episode is with Jared and our lovely guest, a lie that
1:00
Just a floor. I hope you enjoy it and a
1:02
regular episode will be next week.
1:19
Hello and welcome to another episode of for as rough.
1:22
My name is Jared and I surprisingly do not have a meny
1:27
with me this week instead for this special episode where we
1:31
will be discussing the new Sylvanas novel.
1:34
I have with me, the always, wonderful Ali.
1:37
Hi. Hi.
1:39
Hi. How are you doing?
1:41
I'm sorry. How are you?
1:43
I just finished reading the novel, you really?
1:48
You really rocked. It out.
1:49
Yeah, I, you know, pulled it in play, right?
1:52
Right at the last moment. Like skirt it in.
1:55
No II. Actually really just did.
1:58
But but, you know, I read it. I read it.
2:02
I did. I did, I saw words on pages.
2:07
I'm glad that you said, you know, when, when one is reading,
2:11
it helps, if you see words or can read Braille that also
2:15
works. Yeah, I do not have that skill
2:17
set and I like Like super impressed by the ones who do.
2:22
But either way there, there are words and one form of another on
2:25
some form of page or electronic device or audio.
2:31
Yes happened weird. Yes, and those words stitch
2:35
together to formulate some sort of story and crispy.
2:39
Golden did a fantastic job of putting a story together about
2:44
our beloved Ranger, General Sylvanas windrunner.
2:47
So I guess We're not going to go into like to too many like
2:52
specific details because it's quite a dense book.
2:55
There's a lot that happens in it.
2:56
It's 25 Millions. Yes, somebody emotion.
3:02
So so many emotions and Christie as always knock that out of the
3:07
park, 100% knocked it out of the park.
3:10
My favorite World of Warcraft book to date is the arthas novel
3:14
that she wrote like hands down. Best Warcraft novel.
3:17
If anyone asks me. Me what book they should start
3:21
with. That's the book that I point
3:23
them, to, without fail, if you can read that and not fall in
3:27
love with the, but the story of Warcraft.
3:29
It's just not for you. And that's okay.
3:31
That's okay. This book.
3:33
Very, very swiftly becoming a close.
3:35
Second. If not fighting for first place
3:40
as my favorite novel in the warcraft Universe for several
3:44
reasons. First reason is that.
3:46
It includes the Golden Boy himself.
3:48
Arthas menethil. Albeit not in the light that he
3:51
was painted in the arthas novel, but still, he's in there, what?
3:56
Yeah. Yeah, very significant role in
3:59
the story of Sylvanas windrunner, which will get into
4:02
shortly. But I wanted to ask you a lie
4:04
before we jump into the nitty-gritty of everything.
4:07
What were your thoughts on the novel overall?
4:10
Oh, it's so good. So good, you know, back in 20, I
4:14
want to say, 19, maybe times not contract of the pandemic.
4:17
It's fine for some point in the last few years.
4:19
Years, you know, I was saying there should be as ivana's
4:22
novel. And there are some people that
4:23
know, you know, her her story's already woven into various
4:26
places, whatever. They're never going to do it.
4:28
Now, we're gonna do it. And when I envisioned, how they
4:31
would do that, it was basically this and I love it.
4:36
And, of course, Christy is way more skilled than I am because
4:41
it's just way better than I would have ever imagined.
4:44
But I love that. We got so much of her backstory
4:48
of Growing up. And that family life that I, I
4:52
never knew that about her honestly, and I mean I know
4:55
about the sisters obviously, but that's about it and I mean, you
5:00
just starting to like the first part of the book there.
5:02
It was so good. And if you're someone that
5:06
doesn't like Cervantes. If she's the old, the villain of
5:08
your story. You get this whole different
5:11
side of her and the softer side of her that I didn't know
5:15
existed and that was really good.
5:19
Yeah, like so going through before we you know actually get
5:24
into talking about the novel. It is it is vitally important
5:27
that, you know, at least that there is a whole lot of
5:33
supplemental there, I guess extracurricular stuff written
5:39
about Cervantes. There's, there's the comic Three
5:43
Sisters, right, which also is touched on in this novel.
5:48
Of course, the novel arthas. There's quite quite a great deal
5:54
about Cervantes in that as well. There's the short story edge of
6:00
night, so good, which is another fantastic read.
6:04
If you have not read it, all of these other, you know, small
6:08
things and of course like everything.
6:09
That's In in the game itself, like all of those, you know,
6:14
tell a story of Sylvanas and they're, they're not required
6:20
reading before you read this novel, to really get like the
6:24
the full depth of her story. But it does so much.
6:32
For the story itself. If you go into reading this
6:36
novel, with all of those intricacies in mind, because she
6:44
just has such a storied life and now, you know, they're obviously
6:49
spoiler alert for pitch 9.2. If you haven't beaten the story
6:53
yet. We're not really going to be
6:56
doing any Sylvanas. Anything for the foreseeable
6:58
future. She's she's in the mall.
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She's no longer going to be. Primary player in the story of
7:04
the World of Warcraft. We're not really touching on
7:07
anymore, and that's okay. And I think that this novel
7:11
very, it puts a night, nice neat, little bow on her story
7:17
for now that boat can be untied. It's not glued on at all once
7:24
just like elegant, you know, just keeping me busy for a
7:26
while. I'm sure down the road.
7:28
There's going to be some questions like hey, we need you.
7:31
Go back to the mama. How's Savannah says, hanging out
7:33
down there, clearing it out and we need her info on something.
7:38
Yeah, absolutely. It was it was far as I'm not
7:41
core or the elves. Just gonna show up, and we're
7:44
gonna be like, uh, what is happening?
7:49
Where are you? Here?
7:50
This is not what, what? But yeah.
7:57
It's It's been, it's been a long time.
8:04
And I'm personally, happy that we're not really going to be
8:07
lingering on the story of Sylvanas, much after this,
8:11
because she's kind of been in the Forefront.
8:13
Like, it's been her and anduin, basically, since Mists of
8:17
Pandaria, like, one of the two of them have been like, at the
8:21
Forefront of things at various points since then.
8:26
And we're, you know, we're also Moving into win, out of it, at
8:32
least, for a little bit. While we're going into the next
8:34
expansion, which we will be finding out more about in a
8:38
couple of days after this episode releases, but it quick,
8:44
quick aside and I'm going to get this announcement out of the way
8:48
at the front, so I don't forget. But if you're listening to this,
8:52
refresh your feed in like a couple of days because man, he's
8:57
going to be doing an To view with Steve to Newser.
9:00
As you know, all the stuff about the next expansion is coming
9:04
out. I'm not going to be able to make
9:06
the time that Steve is available due to work and everything.
9:09
But Manny is going to be interviewing stevedore Newser.
9:13
It's gonna be so good. Gonna rock it.
9:16
I'm so envious and proud all the same time and I can't wait to
9:20
hear. I love you.
9:21
Manny and you're amazing in. You're going to do amazing
9:23
things. But yeah, you should, you should
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definitely, you know, Refresher. In a couple of days because
9:29
there is going to be another bonus episode interview with
9:33
with Stephen is our they should be looking forward to but gosh.
9:35
Okay, how do I segue from that? I guess where we should start
9:39
with with talking about this story is that there are a couple
9:44
of interludes woven in throughout the chapters of this
9:48
book. They are many like one to two
9:51
page, little interludes that are basically positioning this novel
9:57
as Savannah. Sorry, telling her life to
10:00
anduin, in an attempt to get him to accept.
10:05
So Vols plan willingly before being, you know, forced to enter
10:12
Civil Service. I guess that's not, that's not a
10:15
terrible way of putting that, but regardless, this is the
10:18
conversations that were held while and Owen was being held
10:23
prison in tour cast. We kind of kind of have to look
10:27
at the story. Because of that, we kind of have
10:30
to look at the story through the lens of all of these things are
10:34
being told to us by a narrator that may or may not be
10:38
trustworthy because the narrator is Sylvanas or self fair.
10:42
So these are her memories and we can we can trust that.
10:45
These memories are pretty much accurate.
10:48
Yeah, but she's been through a lot.
10:49
She's been through a lot and there is something something
10:52
that I wanted to point out towards the end of the book.
10:56
I don't remember the exact number of the chapter, but it's
10:58
the chapter. We're arthas kills her and right
11:01
raises her as a Banshee. She in that moment that she is
11:06
killed by frostmourne loses. Her memory loses everything.
11:11
Like her soul. Her Essence is broken in that
11:16
moment and she has to fight to regain her memory of everything
11:21
and to to Aid, what I'm about to say.
11:25
In this. We also see the same thing
11:27
happen with Nathaniel's. Where there is a months-long
11:31
process after after, she finds him as a Scourge and releases
11:36
him from arthas's, hold on him where they have to rebuild his
11:41
entire memory. His entire sense of self from
11:46
scratch, which is a lot of her, you know, retelling the
11:51
adventures that they had together.
11:52
Yeah, which oh, I guess. We didn't say this at the top of
11:57
the episode but spoilers for the book If you haven't.
12:01
You didn't catch on to that. We're going to be spoiling the
12:04
crap out of this book. So maybe we can edit in a
12:07
spoiler warning will do that. No, it's fine.
12:13
But way I'm bringing this up. Is that that's why I'm saying
12:17
that this is an unreliable narrator because she too had had
12:23
to reconstruct her memories of everything from Whole cloth and
12:27
something that's no actual actual spoiler for the story.
12:33
Is that? Arthas was under the control of
12:37
Zwolle the whole time. That's something that that we
12:40
also figure out in this story and that the seems Wild to put
12:49
it lightly. That that he didn't he didn't
12:54
have control like necessarily have control because the the
12:57
runeblade frostmourne wasn't like, arthas controlled it, but
13:04
it was really under the Vols control which begs the question.
13:12
Did she actually reconstruct her memory or was that memory that
13:17
she was given? Something that was
13:19
reconstructed. As her soul, was being contorted
13:23
by azov all through frostmourne. That's a good question.
13:29
I hadn't honestly considered. The chance that in having to
13:36
reconstruct her memory that something may have been off.
13:42
going forward with her memory because I just kind of took it
13:45
as She knows this is our story. You know, that's the same but
13:51
it's actually really interesting to look at it through that lens
13:53
and to consider if there is anything that is a little
13:57
unreliable in that and you know, considering that, you know,
14:02
soval controlled arthas and everything.
14:07
It's an interesting way to look at it.
14:10
Now. I feel like I need to go through
14:11
it for the third time through that lens and see you know,
14:16
what? If there is any like little
14:19
hints that maybe her memory wasn't put back together. 100%
14:26
correct? Yeah, it like.
14:31
I don't 100% subscribed to this. That train is literally
14:35
something that I just thought up on the flights interests.
14:37
It's interesting to consider for sure.
14:39
But God it's just there's so much there's so much that can
14:46
there's so much that can be explained from from the
14:49
perspective of the Jailer in that we know that that he
14:56
treated both arthas and there's ool like puppets.
15:02
And they were controlled via, you know, both frostmourne and
15:07
the Helm of domination. And Sylvanas, just had a brief,
15:13
you know. brush with one of those things, but we know
15:19
domination magic is Kind of kind of crazy in that.
15:26
It's yeah, it just permeates everything that it touches like,
15:32
even even to the point that you knows of all, we know that that
15:37
he's dominated and I'm getting into into like tinfoil hat
15:41
territory here because my, like, my mind is spoiled by discordian
15:45
kittens. That was, yeah.
15:48
That was an article. Yeah, like, like so, Vol was It
15:53
was just the premises puppet in the Primus was actually the
15:56
Jailer the whole time and yeah, I do all these things.
16:02
If you haven't read that article, I highly recommend that
16:05
as well. We talked about it.
16:06
We talked about a couple weeks ago, but good, good grief, good,
16:11
grief. There's so much stuff.
16:14
Well going to that for just a second.
16:15
I kind of wondered. So in the book when we get to
16:19
what would be the edge of night era of the book, right?
16:22
Where she, you know, she's in the mall for the first time and
16:24
everything and talking to the Jailer has of all the first time
16:28
this there was a party. I was like, is there any like
16:32
Hints or clues that this is maybe the Primus speaking
16:38
through. So Vol 2, Savannah is if this
16:42
theory is actually a thing, if there's some kind of twist with
16:44
that and it was just kind of interesting to think of it in
16:48
that term and just see, like maybe.
16:52
So there were parts of it. I remember distinctly because
16:55
this is towards the end of the book that I just, you know,
16:58
rocketed through. So it's very fresh on the mind,
17:01
but But I remember thinking the exact same thing of he calls
17:06
himself. He calls himself.
17:10
The Jailer after saying that he is imprisoned in the mall.
17:18
I keep, he introduces himself as as the victim as he is.
17:24
He's contained in the law and also calls himself.
17:30
The Jailer that he was the Arbiter of souls.
17:32
He decided the fate of souls coming in and everything.
17:37
The one thing, the one thing that destroys the whole thing
17:40
for me is that he then goes on to say that he was jailed by his
17:45
brother. Mama witch.
17:50
Of course, of course, like this whole thing has been explained
17:54
by the screen kitten. As like, it's still it's still
17:59
entirely possible that that, you know, he's actually talking
18:03
about himself as the Primus absolutely about saval.
18:08
Yeah. And just poisoning as civil or,
18:11
you know, using zov all as a puppet to the whole thing
18:14
because there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of puppetry
18:18
being had in this. Three and all of it has to do
18:22
with roon roon carving and and and all this like the all the
18:27
magic that is tied with it. So, okay.
18:32
Yeah. Now I just completely sold
18:34
myself on the whole thing all over again.
18:39
Good grief, but all of that being said, I think, I think
18:44
that, that, that all just kind of strengthens the argument of
18:47
these are all these are all twisted memories, because if
18:50
you, if you go back and and think about it like the early,
18:56
the early years, there were like just Years and years of unending
19:04
happiness. And there were a couple of
19:08
things like a couple of missteps that happened.
19:10
Like there was the Leary has first trial, right that Sylvanas
19:17
ruined that, you know, created a little bit of bad blood.
19:23
There was, let's see the dinner party.
19:28
With virus. there was You know, just minor very minor things
19:42
that all kind of culminated in this.
19:46
Like, one last final happy family moment.
19:49
And then the parents are sent off.
19:52
They are killed, everything starts unraveling.
19:56
So vanes becomes Ranger General, and things start happening,
20:03
happening, terribly, and all of these things.
20:10
Can kind of be contorted like these.
20:14
These are all events that definitely happened.
20:17
That. So vanes may or may not have had
20:21
all these negative emotions tied with all these, all these events
20:26
and she could have just been, you know, powering through and
20:29
just being being the cold calculating Savannah.
20:33
So we all know and love. And they could have had an extra
20:40
Twist of the knife added with the, with the emotional Pain by.
20:47
You know, over-exaggeration, when these memories are brought
20:51
back as she's being raised as a Banshee.
20:54
Like it's it's something that is just silly enough that it's
20:59
plausible, but I don't think you can disprove it.
21:03
So, like, I don't, I don't necessarily think that it's
21:08
entirely possible, but I will still say that even discounting
21:13
all of that. I still think that This is a
21:16
story being told by a unreliable narrator because we know that
21:21
it's Stories being retold with a purpose.
21:25
These are stories that are being retold with the express purpose
21:28
of converting and Doin to her cause without resorting to
21:35
Enslaving him. But on the note of layer with
21:41
layer with is mentioned so many times.
21:45
So so so many times and we get glimpses of layer within the
21:50
rest of the Well, I guess I guess he isn't really mentioned
21:57
too much until the comic three sister.
22:03
Is it three sisters? Yeah.
22:05
Yes. He isn't really mentioned much
22:10
until then like there's there's a little bit of mention in game.
22:15
Not really. Yeah, a whole lot of nothing
22:17
outside of it, but he is mentioned quite a lot because
22:20
there's, there's, there's a bit of A bit of Unsolved.
22:30
Emotion between Sylvanas and Risa surrounding layer with the
22:37
youngest brother and there's good reason for that.
22:40
There's a good reason for that because so vanes definitely
22:44
didn't want him to go and learn the craft of war or anything and
22:50
didn't want him fighting. Didn't want him putting himself
22:53
In Harm's Way and Risa went behind Sylvanas is back and
22:59
taught him. and he got killed whenever the first orcish
23:06
Invasion happened, and they reached They reached cold than
23:14
us. And she never really forgives,
23:21
very sad for that. At least not for a very, very,
23:25
very long time, but this story goes into Great Lengths to
23:33
describe. Her relationship with virus, it
23:37
focuses on lieth way, more than it focuses on earlier and
23:40
Barista because we didn't really have anything to go off of as to
23:46
why she felt so strongly about virus, and we definitely know.
23:50
So what, what do you remember about lieth in particular?
23:58
Before this book or this with Ono with like from the book.
24:03
Okay, good. Well, I mean, we get this
24:06
Glimpse from Cervantes when he's first born.
24:10
You have first moment. I mean, I remember this with my
24:12
little sister, you know, when the first born babies like, oh,
24:15
my baby sibling, I'm gonna love you forever.
24:18
And, and what we get to see, just how much he means to her.
24:25
And it's definitely a theme that runs throughout. and you know,
24:29
we get glimpses of the relationship, you know, the good
24:32
times when they have their special bond and the times when
24:36
you know, they fight, you know, after Saul Thrills party and
24:39
after if she misses birthday and things like that, and we see how
24:45
much of an impact his life has on her, but I think not only Am
24:52
I glad they talked about Laura's so much because we got a chance
24:55
to get actually get to know the kid, but also we finally see.
25:03
How that connection is made without sponsors, really
25:07
realizing it between liras and anduin.
25:11
Yeah, we get that towards the end and it makes complete sense
25:14
special. The whole calling him little
25:16
lion and all of this because we see a little bit in before the
25:21
storm. Yes, you know, our thoughts on
25:24
anduin and how they kind of change a bit and develop.
25:28
And so, we see in this book at the end when anduin himself
25:31
makes a And so, when you go through the book.
25:36
Again, and really learn more about Lyra that and actually see
25:43
the similarities between the two.
25:44
It makes total sense, and it makes sense.
25:49
Why. Cervantes is working so hard to
25:55
convince him to go willingly because I don't think she wants
26:02
to actually have to dump have anduin dominated because that's
26:08
just too painful considering everything with liras and
26:12
there's the whole thought of Having to lose again.
26:22
Yeah. Yeah, I think like, Bringing in
26:29
the three sisters comic in with this that kind of that kind of
26:34
puts the desire for Sylvanas to. Bring her sister's into the
26:44
Forsaken. As we see her, ultimately decide
26:49
not to do not to attempt doing that but definitely had put a
26:55
plan in motion to make it happen.
26:57
Yes, she had it ready to go. Was that she She had herself
27:04
convinced that she was able to completely negate death that she
27:10
could, she could make life Immortal.
27:14
And through through the the route that she had found that
27:24
she could. Not have to bury any more family
27:28
members and we get to see through this novel.
27:31
Exactly how painful it is for her, like having having to bury
27:38
her parents, with unsaid things between them having to bury Lee
27:45
Roth with unsaid things between them and their since then, since
27:54
you know, her becoming becoming the undead Queen.
28:07
There have been a lot of a lot of unsaid things between her and
28:12
Risa especially, but also her and O'Leary as well things, that
28:20
Tension just tensions in general strains in their relationship
28:28
and she doesn't, she doesn't want to have to bury them as
28:32
well. Butt.
28:39
As we know, as we know at the end of this novel, she You know.
28:48
The delusion that she allowed herself to fall under with with
28:54
what Stovall was feeding to her. Was really.
29:05
Kind of the opposite of what she kind of at her core believed
29:10
that there was this need for this need for autonomy.
29:15
This need for What's the word I'm looking for this?
29:23
Need for just Free Willy, well, yeah.
29:29
Yes, this this need to be able to be the master of your own
29:35
fate. She becomes convinced by zov.
29:41
All that Free Will doesn't exist anymore because he's able to
29:45
show her in the brief moments that she's in the mall that
29:50
they're there is nothing but nightmares hell, waiting for
29:58
everyone on the other end of death and It's all a lie.
30:05
All of it. It was away from the outset.
30:08
She was bald face lie down to one.
30:12
How its bothered me for quite a while.
30:15
Now, how she didn't? See it happening how when he is
30:24
of all tossed in a through his to the side like a tool, how she
30:29
didn't stop Wonder. Hmm.
30:31
Is he gonna do that to me? Oh, surely not.
30:34
I'm clearly more important to him and his plan.
30:37
Then this other Eternal one your little brother had flag like it.
30:43
Just don't get how that was not red.
30:44
Flag to her. Like could I be tool know the
30:48
fuck would do? To me, what?
30:50
No. Well, part of the lie, and this
30:52
is something that's that's also touched on in the book, part of
30:55
the LIE is that she allowed herself to convince herself that
30:59
she was an equal to that's her. That's true, which is, you know,
31:05
something that we've seen played out throughout the entire story
31:08
of the show lands. Not just in this book, but
31:11
they're there is, you know, other textual evidence provided
31:16
with the, with the novel that, you know, lends itself.
31:19
Off to also proving that she thought herself an equal to the
31:24
wall and that she also allowed herself to not see it coming in
31:34
the treatment of Denarius as a tool because she also used
31:41
others as tools. She saw it.
31:44
Yeah, as Like game respecting game basically.
31:50
Yeah, so In that regard, she 100% just had herself completely
31:58
fooled that. She was doing the right thing
32:03
and that her cause was just and all.
32:08
All those of all had to do was in the moment that she jumped
32:14
off of icecrown. Citadel snatch, this ol up,
32:19
bring it into the mall directly and scare the ever-loving crap
32:23
out of her which is something that we've been right?
32:27
Yeah. It's something that has been
32:28
speculated on for a very very Are you long time ever since
32:33
Edge Of Night came out? Like what did she see?
32:35
Like, it was just really actually physically go or was a
32:38
vision given to her. Yeah, like she all this
32:42
described an edge of night is that she was terrified of what
32:46
was waiting for on the other end didn't give any details.
32:50
They very much expanded upon what happened in the mall, so
32:54
glad they did which chefs kiss is so good.
32:59
Probably probably the best part. The book outside of the, the,
33:03
you know, the five or six other times, that I had to just put
33:07
the book down because I was crying too much to see the
33:11
pages. Yeah.
33:13
No, I am chapters 9 and 10, like now granted.
33:16
I just went through a loss in my family, love my dad.
33:21
And so at the same time, going through this book.
33:26
We thought it was her but other parents and her brother.
33:31
The way Christy wrote it. Was phenomenal that hole?
33:39
Concept of Savannah's feeling like she had to be strong
33:43
because she's a windrunner and she's you know kind of Ranger
33:47
General now at all that jazz, but the same time inside just
33:51
how their the turmoil And the emotions and the memories of her
33:56
mom and dad and Lyra that. And like the things that are in
34:00
her mind. She was hearing her dad.
34:01
Tell her I mmm. I had to stop reading so many
34:08
times because my emotions were very high, but that really
34:14
speaks to how amazing of a job Christy did with this, and the
34:21
emotion put into it, so good. So, well done.
34:25
Absolutely. Yeah, it like the hole.
34:35
The whole like emotional. Turmoil thing because even even
34:43
not, you know, those are clearly the the emotional High Point or
34:48
high points, low points. However, you want to describe.
34:51
It looks really good. Yeah, there there were also a
34:57
few, a few other moments that were emotionally charged the one
35:04
that that hit me. Was.
35:12
Oh gosh. It was their Remembrance Day.
35:15
Their Remembrance Day party when she's Like the the trio, her and
35:27
Lor themar and Aldrin, I believe they're like, hold on Lor.
35:34
Themar are kind of pokin Jabs at her.
35:38
Like there's a rumor that kills us is interested and she just
35:43
goes off on this. That's ridiculous.
35:45
Why would I ever why? No, I'm so vanes windrunner.
35:49
I belong in the trees by literally named after them you
35:54
fools and wait, this is described as Luther Martin the
36:01
holder on zayas go bug-eyed and she's just like, oh no and turns
36:07
around and kills us is just like you're right.
36:12
What a silly thing to think about.
36:15
Oh PS. If I were interested, I would
36:18
never Ask you to change who you are and then storms off.
36:23
Like I love that moment was so good.
36:29
It's that scene was so originally written and I do
36:32
believe that it kind of It kind of painted kael'thas like in a
36:37
different light because we do see oh God kill us a couple of
36:40
different times throughout this novel.
36:43
But really, you know, the primary sources that we have for
36:47
Cal fastened and who he was as a person.
36:51
Like we see him briefly in the arthas novel.
36:53
When there's the crazy love triangle between kael'thas and
36:58
Jana, and arthas. And then we, of course, we see
37:06
him in the, the Illidan novel after the sunwell events and
37:11
then Yeah, the we see we see a very specific site of him.
37:22
That is painting him in a very snarky and snooty like just
37:27
personality and and this in this ivana's novel.
37:33
He's a prince. He's princely like he's not He's
37:41
not any of the you know typical like hyper exaggerated high elf
37:50
/ blood elf, right? Things that we've come to expect
37:54
out of the warcraft Universe. He's Regal.
37:57
He's he carries himself with composure.
37:59
He comes to the aid of his subjects like I'm so confused by
38:07
the story because I don't, I don't know how to feel about the
38:10
way that Christy portrays him in this in this story because he's
38:16
such, he's such a prick everywhere else.
38:20
And in this novel is just like, oh that explains a whole lots of
38:24
- just tore his heart out and shattered it on the floor.
38:30
I mean, did she because we don't really know.
38:34
Do we really know if he would have actually gone for her.
38:39
We don't we don't although and I may I may be making this up, but
38:47
I, I want to say that. I remember mention of him being
38:51
scorned by Sylvanas. In the arthas novel.
38:58
I want to say that there was mention of it.
39:01
I'll have to go back and read because it's been, it's been
39:04
nearly a decade since I've read it.
39:06
Probably, I don't know. A couple years ago.
39:11
I don't remember that but also slept since then so yeah, could
39:15
be the thing either way it like it was.
39:19
I because we how we know of Celtic altas.
39:23
I would have expected him to actually want to change her and
39:28
make her into who he would want her to be.
39:32
So it's really interesting to see us more down to earth.
39:37
I want to see down there. That's not the right phrase for
39:39
him. Yeah, just a little more normal.
39:42
Normal is not very phrase either.
39:45
Yeah, you know. Like yeah, like not not.
39:49
This. Yeah, I know apis and actually
39:52
kind of like little swab will smooth and also kind of
39:58
Respectful of who she is. And yeah.
40:04
Yeah. Cause like, I remember I
40:05
remember distinctly like his his treatment of Jana was Appalling
40:12
what in the air at this novel? It was it was utterly appalled
40:15
wanted to own her. Yeah, and this is so so that
40:20
that may have been like that may have been a thing that he he
40:26
wanted to like, maybe change Jana to be more like an elf.
40:35
And how she carried herself in that kind of stuff, but maybe he
40:39
didn't feel like he needed to do that with Sylvanas and that may
40:42
have been where the interest was.
40:44
I who knows? We do.
40:48
I can't say that Jenna was definitely not alive at the
40:51
point where this is happening. So like that that experience
40:57
could have very well, you know, changed him as a person.
41:01
Not saying that it did, but it could have it's possible.
41:04
Yeah. Yeah, but gosh.
41:10
Can we speak on the the the other character that we saw a
41:14
different side of that? Everyone hated.
41:17
And all of a sudden, a lot of us actually like him.
41:22
I do believe you'd be talking about.
41:25
Mr. Maris. Yeah, how dare Christie actually
41:29
make me like nethiah? Knows about why do I feel like I
41:33
need closure now? Because we never saw him again
41:37
and I loved their love as Awkward as it was.
41:41
I was there for every second of it.
41:43
And why why Christie? Why must you like me?
41:47
Make me like, him. We have it.
41:50
We have it in ink in writing that they smooched, they did.
41:57
Do I think if you read into it, they did a little more than
42:00
smooch. Yeah.
42:02
Yeah, I wasn't going to but, you know, So modest just doesn't
42:10
seem like the kind of person that would kiss until and
42:13
clearly we were all wrong about that.
42:18
Well, I think it was part of, you know, Savannah's need to
42:24
convince and Doin, you know, here's this person that she
42:27
really loved and oh, look, I can't spend eternity with him
42:31
because we don't have free will at the end and blah blah blah,
42:34
and so she needed to convey. Her emotions Bethany thought us
42:41
if if that it really happened that way.
42:44
But really like, because We've seen this now at least for me.
42:49
It makes a lot more sense why he followed her with so much
42:56
devotion in game through so many things and why he longed after
43:03
her. And now now we know and now we
43:06
get it and I don't want to get it, but I absolutely do get it.
43:14
We do get it, we do get it because we not only we not only
43:18
see. You know that particular moment,
43:22
but we see we see, you know, the whole story as to as to how he,
43:27
you know, got inducted into into the Rangers.
43:36
We see, we see the whole thing. We see that he saved with amar's
43:42
life. We see him, you know, wooing
43:49
Sylvanas. We see, you know, all of the all
43:53
the little interactions that they had.
43:58
We mature so many times about how ugly he is.
44:02
Yes. Yes, Christy, how dare you?
44:10
And we do briefly meet his little cousin.
44:13
Yeah. Yeah, it goes.
44:14
They go to a farm. Yeah, they go to the farm in and
44:17
meet the cousin. And, yeah, and we even see at
44:24
the end when, or towards the end rather, when when she's going to
44:29
retrieve, nethiah knows, she has the thought, like what happened,
44:34
what happened to Stephen? What happened to him?
44:38
Is he skirts? Did he ever become Paladin?
44:41
We don't know. And I think if I personally, if
44:45
I don't, you know, login to my alliance character in 10.0 and
44:51
see a storm when guard or just, You know armored character
44:59
walking around Stormwind in general named Stephen.
45:01
I'm going to Riot, you're not gonna now I'm hoping my memories
45:07
not family me. Pretty sure you're not going to
45:09
see him. Because if I remember, right?
45:14
Asthma, Thanos was losing his like everything, didn't he
45:20
actually kind of like Get Stefan's body if I remember,
45:24
right? Because remember, he was losing
45:27
his like his energy or whatever and starting to fail apart.
45:31
Despite how many times they were like replaced body parts and
45:33
stuff and then I think eventually they borrowed
45:37
Stefan's body for anitha nose. And that's why he didn't look.
45:40
So ugly in the game as he is described in the book.
45:43
Oh. But they didn't go into details
45:47
about that, no ritual, or whatever was done to make that
45:52
happen. I'm so worried now because I
45:55
think you might be right. I don't I hate to disappoint you
45:59
my friend, but I don't see stall.
46:02
I mean, you kind of are except not anymore because the knife on
46:07
us is somewhere in the mall. So yeah.
46:11
Yeah, we'll probably never know. We'll probably just never know
46:15
Ali. Right here.
46:16
Now if Thanos did get his cousin's body, you know, but in
46:21
truth, the thalamus is a character that I hate like, I
46:26
dislike nothing nose in general as a character.
46:30
And even, even this, this novel didn't really do much to change
46:33
my mind about them know like I get it, I get it, I hundred
46:40
percent get it. I get why everyone is like
46:44
suddenly just like team, maybe nothing.
46:46
Nose. Not me.
46:50
He he was a total total Jack to the entire thing and I'm sorry
46:58
many you're gonna have to edit this.
47:01
You're gonna have to put in some more relaxed, but you know what?
47:09
I can't I just I can't stand the guys demeanor.
47:13
I can't. I can't.
47:14
He's just his character. Just even how he was written
47:20
back in the day. Just exudes.
47:23
Dude, that wears too much Pomade energy.
47:31
Like we're so much Pomade that it has seeped into the the brain
47:35
matter, through the skull can energy, you know what I mean?
47:41
It's yeah like 50s 50s. Greaser like right jock
47:47
motorcyclist, all rolled into one.
47:53
Buy it. Yeah.
47:54
I just, I can't, I can't stand him even, even in this novel,
47:58
which does does paint him in, you know, quite quite a much
48:01
more sympathetic light. Because it's again through the,
48:04
Through The Eyes, through the lens of Savannah, storytelling
48:09
bright her life and her memories, which she loved him.
48:14
She absolutely adored Nathaniel's and Definitely does
48:21
him a lot of favors except calling him ugly.
48:26
Which, like, sure. She's very, she's very honest
48:29
about that. Yeah.
48:31
It's like, I get it like she's surrounded by, you know,
48:34
tragically beautiful things all the time.
48:39
Like, she can't escape The Tragically beautiful place.
48:43
That is Called the NOS like she just can't like the whole
48:49
Silvermoon City. Like everything about that
48:53
entire Peninsula is just gorgeous.
48:59
And so she sees this person that is, you know, to her very
49:03
truthful in how he lives his life and how he presents himself
49:10
and it is a stark contrast from what she perceives.
49:15
As all just frivolity. Because she, she doesn't even
49:22
like putting dresses on she. Like, there's two instances in
49:26
the story where she puts a dress on, and both times.
49:29
She complains about it the whole time.
49:30
Like she doesn't, she doesn't really feel like she fits in
49:36
with that Society. So she, as soon as she finds
49:39
someone that, He doesn't have the energy of the place that
49:45
she's from. Of course.
49:46
She's gonna, she's gonna get as much of it as she can and she
49:50
does that by keeping the Thanatos around for as long as
49:53
possible when it makes sense. Because, at least for me, You
49:59
Cervantes, you she's a first writer.
50:02
She she's a hunter. She goes on these hunts and she
50:05
has to kill trolls like the the aspects of her life.
50:10
As a first writer and windrunner.
50:12
She sees that nature is not always beautiful and she sees
50:17
the blood and the gore and the how, you know, This animals pray
50:22
and animal hunts and all that jazz where she lives in this
50:26
world where she does not like to go to court.
50:28
She does not like to put on dresses and she's expected to
50:30
all these sayings and she's she knows outside of that.
50:34
That's not what life's really. Like, it's not all about court
50:37
and everything and so I can see how, you know, for Hernandez on
50:41
us is is something that's of real.
50:44
It's not that, you know, having to put on a front for the court
50:48
and to be presentable. It's real and raw, and it made
50:54
sense to me that she I was so into him and need him around
51:01
plus the whole sassy retorts and someone who knew her better than
51:06
anyone else, you know, it's helpful to have someone like
51:09
that around. Yeah, I think how it was, how it
51:12
was kind of explained as to why she like nathanial so much in
51:16
the book. Is that there wasn't anyone that
51:19
she felt she could make playful Jabs at.
51:22
Yeah, and then not get obscenely offended.
51:27
With the exception of Illyria, who right?
51:30
Oh, that's because it looks more and harder on but well, even
51:34
them even the two of them. Like she she could be informal
51:38
around them, but I think that they they all came to understand
51:45
the boundaries very quickly. Yeah.
51:47
With the with each other. Where's all that?
51:50
Yeah, we're as witness honest. She like right out of the gate
51:53
was just like, no, we're no no pretense your, your piece of
51:59
crap. And and then I'm gonna I'm
52:02
gonna, you know, do everything that I can to belittle you.
52:05
Oh, that's spicy. You shot.
52:08
It immediately back at me. No one's ever done that before.
52:11
For my sister. You've got Moxie.
52:13
I like it. But yeah, there's there's a
52:22
whole lot that this story uncovers, and I think, you know,
52:27
going back to talking about her distaste for, for the court, for
52:33
the high court for, you know, having to put on a different
52:37
face is that when she becomes Ranger General?
52:45
It is explicitly because of her mother's death.
52:51
And she, you know, puts on puts on her cold calculating face.
52:59
She gets right to work as Ranger General as soon as the, the
53:05
mantle is available for her to take.
53:06
She takes it and she goes and conducts, an investigation.
53:13
And finds that it that this attack that rendered her parents
53:20
dead, was not just at the trolls hands it.
53:23
Like they, they, they go to Great Lengths to, to paint the
53:28
conflict between the High Elves, and the trolls, the Imani
53:33
trolls. as you know, centuries-old conflict, which
53:38
there was there were surgeries will conflict between the two
53:43
and They also go to Great Lengths to describe.
53:51
That the high elves were in a position where they they had
53:59
kind of figured out how to, how to best defend their borders,
54:03
how to, how to keep the Amani at Bay.
54:07
And so, whenever this attack happens that kills her mother
54:11
and her father, her mother being the ranger General, who someone
54:18
has felt could never die because she Had all of these, you know.
54:25
All these crazy stories about about her exploits and how could
54:31
a couple of trolls come and you know, best her?
54:38
and, She has a hunch that the it wasn't just the Amani that it
54:46
was there was other others involved and it turns out that
54:50
she was correct. And then it this was The Horde,
54:53
the the first, the first horde and this maybe if I'm
54:58
remembering correctly, this this is the first war.
55:04
At the point in time, when this happens, I believe either as the
55:08
Orcs were new and they had just come through the portal.
55:10
So I believe, oh, yeah, so This. This attack was, you know fairly
55:18
early on into the Orcs coming in and they hadn't really heard a
55:23
whole lot about them. Like the elves have pretty much
55:26
been sequestered to themselves. They, you know, cut themselves
55:29
off from the rest of the world for very long time.
55:31
Frame for good reason. But they weren't expecting it,
55:38
and Cervantes having heard rumors about these.
55:43
These are Works coming through. She was like, I'm I'm, you know,
55:47
I just want to look just to be safe and she does find evidence
55:53
and brings the the evidence that the Orcs were involved to Anna
55:57
Starion. At which point he promptly
56:00
destroys the evidence and says to Cervantes.
56:05
There is no reason to cause panic.
56:09
About the these unknown Invaders amongst our people, you will
56:14
not, you will not seek to uncover anything else about
56:18
them. We're not going to talk about
56:20
him. It's not our problem to deal
56:24
with your parents knew what they were getting into when they left
56:30
left, the the protections of the sunwell.
56:36
That's that. They knew the risks.
56:39
They knew what they were getting into when they left, and we're
56:43
just not going to have it anymore.
56:46
That's what she hated. That's that's what she hated
56:50
about court. It was the The.
56:58
Do I do the right thing? Or do I let what is dictated to
57:04
me become the right thing and she had to put that aside very
57:08
quickly and do what was dictated to her.
57:20
And I think that there's That, that resentment that started
57:25
with Anna Starion is in a way for me, kind of what fueled her
57:33
resentment toward. What arthas did to her.
57:37
Because arthas, you know, turned her into a Banshee made her kill
57:42
in asterion and swaths of of other High Elves.
57:51
But that. That control that.
58:01
That loss of control for her the she can't really control her own
58:08
destiny fuel her hatred for arthas.
58:12
And blinded her for what has evolved was doing to her house
58:18
of all was manipulating her because she had that hatred of
58:22
something, Beyond her control dictating her Destiny and, and
58:29
that, that one theme permeates the entire.
58:35
Yeah story. But even even going all the way
58:39
back to the beginning with the whole thing between her mother
58:45
and Illyria, Between is it Larisa, right?
58:52
Yeah. Yeah.
58:53
So, between Larisa and Illyria about how she saved earlier his
59:03
life. Savannah saved earlier his life
59:06
and didn't get thanked for it by anyone because there was
59:12
something Beyond her control that she didn't have any say in.
59:17
Dictating what needed to be done?
59:20
And she knew what the right thing to do.
59:22
Was she did the right thing in her mind and was punished for
59:25
it. So that that theme is right
59:30
there, right? In the very beginning and goes
59:32
through the entire rest of the book.
59:37
So I yeah, I I don't think that I want to come to the conclusion
59:43
that Sylvanas. Is redeemed through this,
59:50
through these Revelations, this this book has brought to us.
59:56
like she did awful things and like in the name of a in the
1:00:04
name of a lie. She did Terrible.
1:00:07
Horrible, awful things and she again was not in control
1:00:13
entirely of her actions through the whole thing because even,
1:00:21
you know, at the end of sanctum of domination We find out that
1:00:26
soval had the missing fragment of her soul that he was using to
1:00:31
manipulator as well through the entire thing. that being said, I
1:00:46
do think that this leaves Savannah story in a very good
1:00:52
place. Yeah, it was really nice to see
1:00:57
more of the relationship between her and the sisters in more
1:01:01
detail, you know, from the beginning to see you heard
1:01:05
Illyria. Her and Brisa have Risa is The
1:01:08
Peacemaker and all of that and to get more In depth into those
1:01:15
relationships and then to have them in game, you know, and be
1:01:21
able to say goodbye to them before like just a moment
1:01:25
because we got a chance to see more of their relationships in
1:01:28
the book. It's like that moment where she
1:01:30
got to say. Goodbye to them.
1:01:31
Had a little more power to it. It meant a little more and I
1:01:37
thought that was really nice. Just to be able to see that more
1:01:42
through the book in such great detail.
1:01:47
Yeah. Yeah. 100%.
1:01:50
I'm I'm also a middle child. So I do.
1:01:56
I do, you know, are you the police chair?
1:01:59
Huh. Are You The Peacemaker?
1:02:01
Oh, no. No, I well in terms of her
1:02:05
sisters. Like I I am the middle between
1:02:11
my two brothers. And so there are there were a
1:02:14
lot of moments in in this novel that I was just like.
1:02:20
That's middle child. That's a middle child syndrome.
1:02:23
100% 100% all the way through this middle.
1:02:25
Child syndrome. So I can I can connect with
1:02:33
Cervantes on that level. That's cool.
1:02:35
Yeah. And even.
1:02:45
Gosh, there's there's so many, there's so many other like,
1:02:49
great things that can be said in terms of themes because it like
1:02:55
another thing. That that should be talked about
1:02:59
that. I don't really think many people
1:03:02
are talking about, is that this this novel towards the end,
1:03:09
whenever we start to see more about Sylvanas, early dealings
1:03:15
with bringing the Forsaken out of out of hiding in the
1:03:20
undercity and and trying to help broker a peace.
1:03:26
For her people that she helped free from.
1:03:31
Arthas has control. There was one.
1:03:39
There was one moment in particular. that they're sitting
1:03:46
or she you she and particular sitting in council with thrall
1:03:50
and and Cairn and There. They're talking about how.
1:03:59
There's there's so much that that so - and The Forsaken can
1:04:05
teach them about about life and teach them about. about death as
1:04:18
well, man, and kind of Get them to think on a different
1:04:23
perspective, other than their own the obvious.
1:04:29
The obvious parallel with that in the real world is that is
1:04:33
often the the experience of minorities.
1:04:36
Any minority group ever. Like they are brought to the
1:04:41
table to share their their side of the story so that the
1:04:45
majority is able to learn from them instead of or they're
1:04:52
expecting the minority group to teach them about something and
1:04:58
Cervantes is To this, which she doesn't say because she was at
1:05:02
least, I don't think she said that out loud, but her thoughts.
1:05:06
As, as these horde leaders are saying these things and, you
1:05:13
know, expecting the responsibility.
1:05:15
Yeah, of course, we're going to teach you about how how we live
1:05:20
and and teach you all about these other things.
1:05:24
Her her internal dialogue. There is how dare you, how dare
1:05:28
you? You expect me and my people to
1:05:31
teach you. All these things just so that we
1:05:36
can be accepted, like you should just accept us for who we are.
1:05:40
Like, that's that's just how it should be.
1:05:45
I just thought that was a good thing to to look at in a story
1:05:53
like this. Because the the The Forsaken are
1:05:59
in a unique position. In the story in that they are,
1:06:06
they are definitely outcasts. From from the rest of the world,
1:06:13
like they barely have a place in The Horde and since, you know,
1:06:18
Sylvanas kind of went off the deep end.
1:06:23
And, you know, after the events of BFA, they kind of lost their
1:06:27
leadership and then Kalia stepped in and they don't they
1:06:32
still don't really have a leader kind of Well, I guess.
1:06:40
No. That's, that's a like, is Kelly.
1:06:42
A did did step in. She's like, the actual leader
1:06:45
now, right? And my missing.
1:06:47
Remembering that the first taken?
1:06:49
Yes. Lily invite, I know.
1:06:59
So I know in Madeline ruse book. that it they were working
1:07:09
together like Lily and and right we're working together and then,
1:07:17
Kelly. And Bull fur, can we get?
1:07:21
No no, no, no, no. I just give me about The Horde
1:07:26
Council so I can't remember for for this exact moment.
1:07:31
I'm slept since then. I can't remember if they're just
1:07:35
kind of like. Co-writing The Forsaken or if
1:07:39
one of them has like stepped away from it now.
1:07:43
Yeah, but meanings. Well, we'll find out more about
1:07:46
next week. Yeah, like obviously Callie is
1:07:48
in the shadowlands. So she's not directly Leading
1:07:50
The Forsaken right now. Oh, no, but so are, you know
1:07:53
some other people get grilling on the throne fulfilling some
1:07:58
Logan off Whispers at the moment and we have you know, it just,
1:08:02
you know leaderships a little different right now with all
1:08:04
these people and yeah, you know, it's still, I think, I think
1:08:11
these stories, these stories are great ways to To kind of explore
1:08:20
these perspectives and I think I think Christy did a fantastic
1:08:24
job with it. I wish there was more more of it
1:08:29
with the the story of Sylvanas, you know, bringing bringing the
1:08:35
Forsaken into the fold. I wish that there was was more
1:08:40
of that story and and showing a little bit more of the ink
1:08:46
intricacies of how she was able to, you know, secure protection
1:08:53
for people outside of she showed up a Thunder Thunder Bluff and
1:08:59
They came to an agreement, you know, but yeah.
1:09:07
It's a good book. It's a great pair is, should we
1:09:10
address the the end, the epilogue?
1:09:16
Yes. That's the very last thing that
1:09:20
I read and I cannot for the life of me.
1:09:23
Remember in this exact moment. So happened sighs.
1:09:28
We know right some honest, we know from the game, Spanish
1:09:32
Pasco, the ma clear it out. Send All Souls back to the
1:09:36
public ghosts Arbiter, Arbor to go sweat everyone calm.
1:09:39
Now I made that name up is great.
1:09:41
But um and to be, you know, re sorted what not yet.
1:09:50
She jumps into the mall and in the epilogue all of a sudden,
1:09:54
she smiles because she hears a familiar clanking behind her.
1:10:04
Wait. Oh my God.
1:10:09
Oh, Jared. Oh, dang.
1:10:13
What did I miss? I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
1:10:15
give you a second to process. This everyone listeners your
1:10:18
evening. This is live where you're
1:10:19
witnessing. Witnessing this I've heard from,
1:10:23
she is happy because she hears a familiar clanking behind her.
1:10:32
I'm pulling it up right now to make sure.
1:10:39
Familiar clanking of armor. Clanking of armor like ew.
1:10:46
Clanking of armor. Hmm.
1:10:50
I can't. Liris was it.
1:10:56
Liris because he died in the armor.
1:11:01
But before sivanna's could stride again stride forward into
1:11:04
the vastness of the mama. She heard a sound one familiar
1:11:08
and utterly unexpected the distinctive Clank of metal
1:11:12
armor. Hope and Doin had told her is
1:11:16
what you have. When all are the things have
1:11:18
failed you where there is. Hope you make room for healing
1:11:21
for all things that are possible and some that are not Sylvanas
1:11:25
windrunner. Felt hope rise within her and
1:11:28
for the first time in, so very long.
1:11:30
Invited it in. I cannot for the life of me,
1:11:39
figure out who it was. You're gonna have to spell it
1:11:43
out for me. So the leading theory right now
1:11:48
and I'm on this train is at Sandy win.
1:11:54
Oh because if you listen to the conversations of Stay Awhile and
1:12:00
listens with all the NPC's in the last chapter and when talks
1:12:05
to again about how he's not ready to go back yet and that
1:12:08
trillions good to keep running things because he needs some
1:12:11
time to sort things out because he's been through a lot.
1:12:15
Yeah, and so and plus, and a couple different points in the
1:12:19
book. Christie makes point to mention
1:12:23
and ruins, clinking armor. You know what?
1:12:30
And to further add to that, as we know time passes differently
1:12:35
in the mall, and we know of a certain comic down the road.
1:12:41
We're old men, and one is around.
1:12:48
Okay, so, yep. Yeah, when I, when I, when I
1:12:54
very first read it, I was like, didn't it follows find armor?
1:12:58
Is this filing among us as like wait?
1:13:01
No, that makes no sense. There's no way.
1:13:02
It's on. Oh, so it's like, no, it's a new
1:13:04
word and everyone's talking about it.
1:13:05
And, you know, once we don't got the the stay awhile and listens
1:13:10
from the The Story chapter, right and game.
1:13:13
Like a whole man that yep, that's it says anduin, so
1:13:15
they're going to vent. And then for a while to at least
1:13:17
for a Time Janna be in the mouth it with someone has clearing out
1:13:22
souls and sorting out his life which has been all sorts of
1:13:26
crazy for a very long time now and his young years.
1:13:31
Yeah. He's he's only like 19, I think.
1:13:34
Yeah, 19. 20 years old. That's it's crazy.
1:13:38
Like thinking about All he's been through like he, he was
1:13:42
like 16 in Mists of Pandaria. Like a close to that age.
1:13:50
That is 13. That was a different one.
1:13:53
Though that that may have been a the because he was Miss.
1:13:56
I think I think he was 16 and Miss because he was 10.
1:14:02
When he took the throne. Okay, in in like Original
1:14:10
Classic Nola. Yeah, okay, so I'm pretty sure,
1:14:14
I'm pretty sure it was like, 16. Either way. 15 bit.
1:14:17
He is Young punk kid, right? Like, he's that creepy kid and
1:14:20
strong wind that followed you around here Alliance, you know,
1:14:23
and he grew up a little bit in mist and you still but he's
1:14:27
still young and if you consider all he's been through in his
1:14:29
life plus plus something. I want to keep reminding people
1:14:33
about and shadows Rising. At one point, a little Shadow
1:14:37
tendril snuck out of his sleeve, sir, something void and shadowy
1:14:41
going out with him too. Like he has so much that it's
1:14:44
happened to him before being dominated by the Jailer, ya
1:14:49
know. So I could see him not being
1:14:52
quick to return to public life after all of this.
1:14:57
Yeah, dude needs a breather for sure, for sure is, he's
1:15:02
definitely needs to take a backseat for a little bit.
1:15:08
Okay, grief got okay. So now going into next expansion
1:15:16
trillion our gold boy, there is on the throne.
1:15:20
Hmm. It's couple elegant off Whispers
1:15:23
while the yeah. Yeah.
1:15:25
Yeah. Well, the thing with him in
1:15:26
Elyria, like, yeah, that's what's gonna happen.
1:15:28
And we're gonna know very soon at least have an idea very soon
1:15:32
about what's going on. Isn't it?
1:15:33
Something like crown of gold sits on a throne of lies or
1:15:39
three lies, so, he'll tell you. So I mean, at some point to that
1:15:42
effect, once like there's there's, there's a few that
1:15:46
could either normal. Yeah, like everyone for the
1:15:50
longest time was convinced that they were.
1:15:52
And doing there. They were specifically talking
1:15:54
about Android. And Like I think it was like
1:15:59
three lies, he will offer you is one of them.
1:16:03
Did did it? Do I'm gonna show notes from
1:16:06
another episode, did it? No, that's realize is was
1:16:10
anduin. The boy King serves at the
1:16:12
master's table. Three lives.
1:16:13
He will offer. You think everyone's pretty
1:16:15
settled right now and on anyone but the trillion wondered to do
1:16:21
to do or Ravens the golden, one claims a vacant Throne, the
1:16:28
crown of light will bring only Darkness.
1:16:31
Yes, that's that's like the main one.
1:16:33
That's playing at him right now. At least.
1:16:35
Yeah, it seems that way. Yeah, and I think, I think the
1:16:38
leading theory on that is that there's something going on
1:16:41
between torelli and the Scarlet Brotherhood and they're gonna be
1:16:46
doing some Shenanigans. The other potential one is,
1:16:51
there's one that says its surface blazes bright masking
1:16:55
Shadows below so that could be trillion, but that could also be
1:16:59
the sunwell like that could be many things.
1:17:01
That could also call valyria. So but I think the main one is
1:17:05
the crown with the empty throne and stuff.
1:17:07
So, yes, so we got that going on now that and Owens going to be
1:17:11
hanging out in the most of hobbies.
1:17:14
Yeah. Well presumably presumably yes
1:17:18
hanging out with so - but otherwise just like kind of
1:17:20
chilling in or bows for, you know, an expansion or to, which
1:17:25
I don't really see. I don't, I don't see and do, and
1:17:28
not doing something to take action.
1:17:29
So like that. Totally tracks with his
1:17:32
character hundred percent track. So he would be like, you know
1:17:36
what, I'm gonna join her. I'll catch up with you guys
1:17:39
later. It's fine.
1:17:40
Yeah, like not only just because of, you know, things have honest
1:17:43
and whatnot. But also I can see him actually
1:17:46
wanting to help these lost souls and the mama and bring some, you
1:17:52
know, Justice and try to write things.
1:17:57
Yeah, which if that's if that's, you know, because that is the,
1:18:01
the notes they left, the that she left the novel off on,
1:18:04
right? Sylvanas.
1:18:07
Finally, after all these years having hope.
1:18:12
She is very little reason to have hope in anything after the
1:18:16
stubbles. I think knowing knowing her her
1:18:21
full story. I yeah, I get it.
1:18:29
I get why she, you know, did the things that you did.
1:18:34
I don't agree with them but I get it.
1:18:36
Yeah, at the very least a tour. Like I don't get it myself, but
1:18:43
I see I see where the logic in her mind ended up. so, for her
1:18:53
to in this story of two in this, Chapter in her life off with
1:19:01
having hope, after everything that has happened.
1:19:06
That's a big deal. That's a huge deal because She
1:19:13
should have. Probably should have had a
1:19:17
tragic ending. I don't think I did not expect
1:19:22
this at all. Yeah, I don't think anybody did
1:19:26
and I know quite a few people who Wanted nothing more than for
1:19:34
her to have a tragic ending and not not come out of this, any
1:19:40
better. Yeah.
1:19:44
Or come out of this at all. In any Fashion II, there were
1:19:49
several people who were just like, do do a variant or, and
1:19:54
obliterate her soul right in front of verb, because it's,
1:19:59
there was no way to please everyone.
1:20:01
Yeah, because everyone not everyone, I'm not going to try
1:20:04
to speak for everyone, right? Many in the community have
1:20:07
spoken about their various feelings on sivanna's for their
1:20:10
loyalists, whether they hate her and you want her decapitated and
1:20:15
The ones who are just so done with her story.
1:20:17
Like I feel like this ending was the best way for blizzard to end
1:20:21
it and try to please the most violent people because there was
1:20:24
no way they're going to please everyone.
1:20:26
No, no. And there there isn't in a good
1:20:29
way. Yeah.
1:20:32
I allude to this at least like once a month, but there was an
1:20:35
episode several episodes ago, that made that many and I titled
1:20:40
you can't, please anybody. For good reason that it did
1:20:46
anything they put in this game is going to make someone upset
1:20:49
about something. So and that goes that goes for a
1:20:54
stories, especially when you have a character.
1:20:56
That's so How do you know if prolific the right word but like
1:21:04
a character that permeates through everything?
1:21:07
Yeah, she's so ingrained in everything and, you know, in the
1:21:10
last couple expansions have been the more divisive and it's It's,
1:21:18
I'm just glad that ended this way.
1:21:21
I think this was good and I think Christy handle it.
1:21:24
Well, yes, 100% agree. 100% well, We're I would say we're
1:21:34
running out of time, but we'd really did have a time frame for
1:21:37
this episode. But but we have been going for
1:21:40
nearly an hour and a half, but I wanted to give you a chance to
1:21:44
put any last thoughts down. If you had any, I would be
1:21:48
curious to hear. How much of this was, you know
1:21:54
Christy having freedom to do with as she wishes versus what
1:22:00
aspects of it? The right and team needed to
1:22:04
have done in order to further the game, but either way.
1:22:12
This was the novel. I was hoping it would would be
1:22:16
and I'm with you. I think Army arthas was my
1:22:21
favorite. That was my, my Gateway into the
1:22:25
lore of this game in the story and who this book for me when a
1:22:31
book can just enrapture me and make me feel emotions this
1:22:36
strong. It's good.
1:22:40
And I feel bad saying it might be my favorite book now because
1:22:45
arthas, but boy, that's a really close race at the moment.
1:22:49
Yeah. Who booked slaps is good.
1:22:53
It's a good book. It's well.
1:23:01
In that case, I will consider this episode ceased, just like
1:23:08
so viruses story. But before we get out of here,
1:23:14
Ali, let the good people know where they can find you.
1:23:19
Really the best place right now is just follow me on Twitter at
1:23:24
Islanders K. There you can find twitch, which
1:23:27
I should be bringing back. My weekly streams.
1:23:30
Probably met is my guess and you can find links to live a floor
1:23:36
and dungeon people's whenever that comes back and just me
1:23:41
being silly and positive. And I don't know doing a beacon
1:23:47
of light to everyone. In your life, attempting,
1:23:51
attempting to be? Yes.
1:23:55
Well, for me, you can find me on Twitter at Jill, repeat G.
1:23:59
And you can also find the show if you want to reach out to the
1:24:03
show, find us at for Azeroth. I believe, I believe.
1:24:09
Nope. I'm incorrect.
1:24:12
I should have had this. It's fast.
1:24:15
It's at fast podcast. Goodness gracious.
1:24:22
But yeah, that's it for me. Until next time may all your
1:24:27
hits secrets.