Latest / Morrow Marriage | Disrupting Divorce / When Is A Boundary Unreasonable For Insecurity | Insecurity vs Control | The 'NEW' Marriage | Ep464

Transcript

When Is A Boundary Unreasonable For Insecurity | Insecurity vs Control | The 'NEW' Marriage | Ep464 · Morrow Marriage | Disrupting Divorce

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: When is a boundary unreasonable?
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Lack of commitment in marriage.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Can you outgrow a soulmate?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Rebound relationships, healing, or escaping.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: The value in solitude and growth, our big fuck-up.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: When kids replace your spouse.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: When is a boundary unreasonable or insecurity?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the More Marriage Podcast, guys.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: And a few episodes ago, we talked about insecurity.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: We actually talked about it filtering in through several episodes.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: But we started with the actual path to betrayal.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought it was really important because the number of number of times it was coming up.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: I also filmed a new script, uh, sorry, a new reel.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was thinking about how I was gonna speak to you guys about it, and it just rolled off the tongue with telling the story.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I just thought we'd do it longer, and it was a great episode.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: And now, Catherine, you have a coach that you've sort of talked about last time we filmed with you.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I have a story for you guys.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so Catherine, we didn't want to talk too much about it then, but Catherine's got more information, and we need to talk about this.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is out of control.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: She wanted she wanted to surprise me with it, but she couldn't wait.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh I kept letting little pieces out because here's what I want to do.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I want to see what my what my husband's perspective is because if you guys have been listening to us, you know how we feel about insecurity and supporting your partner and boundaries for your relationship.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know about all of that if you've gotten to episode 400 and whatever this is gonna be.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: 464, I think.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's that's last week.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: So 404, 5, 6, 7, 8.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: 65 then.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you're right.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Anyways, let's carry on.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we talked about insecurity.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So here's so I think that this is going to be an example where we actually I don't think we'll disagree with each other.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think that it will challenge the way that we think about boundaries for the relationship.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: So the first thing is this couple is not married.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing, I think, and there's probably gonna be a lot, I don't even know how I'm gonna, I'm not the one that usually leads the discussions, guys, so bear with me.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Tell the story water.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm crying.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: They love my personality.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Go, go, go.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: So the man, the background is that the man is, let's call him a women's soccer coach.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And he coaches these groups of women.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: He met his the love of his life coaching this soccer team.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Gravitated towards her, fell in love with her, still coaches other women, though.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, this is what he does for work, okay?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: So then then later, coaches another team of women and becomes friendly with one of the women.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Now he's, I was gonna say, he's actually a lot like you, with he won't give compliments, and this is where this story started.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: So somebody was filming him on social media, and on the video, he pointed to one girl and said, Hey, name, you killed it today.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they put it on social media.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Someone commented because he's a bit of a smartass, like you used to be when you used to coach, and said, Oh my gosh, you got a compliment.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Let's call him Sam.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: You got a compliment from Sam.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so he felt bad because it went back and forth, it went kind of viral for this little place that he was coaching at.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: And he felt bad.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So he sent, so this is like 845, this is important, 845 on a Friday night.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: He sends the girl a message and says something like, You totally deserve that compliment.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're actually so good.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so proud of the work that you've done.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: You just started playing soccer.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually scary how good you are, and I'm just so proud.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I I'm I I'm really glad like about the friendship that we've built.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, I read it.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: He's he actually showed it to me today.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's not inappropriate, but girlfriend is like, this is how you met me.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So they so he went so this same night, he goes back, he's at his girlfriend's house.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: He said that the phone was left open with that text message.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: I doubt it.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think girlfriend probably went through the phone.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: Saw the text message.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: This was over a year ago.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is a year and a half ago.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty sure they might have been broken up at the time.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: This they've been broken up a lot.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: The phone was open to the message a year ago, from a year ago?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is the story, it happened a year ago.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it but it's it's built into more.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: So so he he obviously liked this person, they had a great time coaching, all the all the things.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the problem.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: So back then it caused a problem.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: He built it, he was so he was going out one night to like hang out with this girl, and her husband hits it off with her husband even more than he could have imagined because he likes he liked this girl.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: He thought she was super fun to play with, and then he meets the husband.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: They built a complete romance.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: So now he's hanging out with the husband and all these other couples.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: They always invite the girl, his girlfriend.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: She always won't go.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Well, that looks really bad.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're inviting her every time.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: So he's like, Well, I'm gonna go.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm friends with let's call him Dan.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go hang out with Dan.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: But the problem is Dan's wife is always there.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he coaches her in soccer, he's sure she gets so girlfriend over here.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, there's so many people here, it's so convoluted, gets super pissed off.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, flash forward to today, they've been they broke up so many different times.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, this is the insecurity episode we talked about.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: Sam and we'll call her Winona have broken up.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Sam and Winona have broken up so many times, they're not together now.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's investing so much in her, like, just wants to be with her.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: She's kind of like, well, whatever, there's been some things.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um the most recent thing is so he said to me today, I screwed up, I made it worse.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how he made it worse, but she saw something on social media where he was hanging out with the husband, and she's like, I can't believe you're still hanging out with her.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: She knows that he's he built a friendship with the husband.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: She he's not hanging out with her.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna lose everybody, so let's get to it.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: What do you wanna go?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: I want to know what you think about this boundary because girlfriend is like, you're still hanging out with her, I need to be the priority, I need to be number one.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, but I'm not I'm not gonna give up this relationship.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm basically best.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so clarifying questions Winona still isn't really all in.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, she's not.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: She I feel like she drops him for once a week.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so Winona's not in all the time.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Partly that's gonna be due to something, some things.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: His insecurity is a big one.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and hers.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they both got insecurity.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: So there's lots of issues, but she's gonna blame it on say things like this.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yes.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, here's the problem with this.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: A, they're not married, B, they don't really have whether, whether, like I know that Sam is crazy about her from what you told me.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Winona.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: But he doesn't really feel he's very insecure because she's not really as in.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: She's not, she's not giving him back.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: So so whether or not the friendship is by the way, in it should be acceptable.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: He's inviting Winona out, doesn't hang out with the girl.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's weird that he sent the compliment at 8 45 p.m.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: and all that nice.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: He owned that and he said he tried to repair it a year and a half ago.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, anyways, since then he's friends with Dan and they're best friends, and that's great.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: He still has to decide if she is the most important person.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I said.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: So he's not willing to give up Dan and Dan's wife because he thinks it's ridiculous, because she's creating stories with insecurity, and I said Which is true.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: But but they're not married yet.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's only getting more difficult.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the thing is, that's that's the whole thing.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: So if you guys know we always support every relationship to the end, but if you're not married, and it's not that there's an out, it's that like you could be looking at some of the science.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the problem with Sam.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Sam, you're getting older, okay?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you've got some time invested.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And Winona is even older than Sam.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and so it's getting harder and harder.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we don't like divorce in this line of work that we do, because it's getting harder and harder.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just the integrity, the obligation.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: However, you have a lot more to consider besides the fact that you say you really ultimately love Winona.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now, here's the real problem, though.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta choose Winona, but you don't necessarily have to choose.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: We remember, this is called uh we're talking about a boundary for insecurity.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: You need to have a hard boundary here.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I can accept that maybe you're insecure about Dan's wife.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if we got her name, but um I can appreciate that's the one that's a problem.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, Winona is the problem.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Winona is Sam's girlfriend, she's insecure about Dan's wife.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but yeah, there is no Dan's wife if Winona ever listens, because she's she he's hanging out with Dan.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, Sam's the Dan.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not hanging out with Dan's wife, otherwise, because he understands that the problem from before.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: But so here's the thing.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you can put a battery in place.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, I'm happy to talk to you about, you know, taking Dan out of my life, removing Dan from my life, but things have got to change here, you know?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing is, the ultimate goal here wouldn't be to get rid of Dan.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: The goal would be to get her to reflect long enough, have an adult conversation about a non-existent friend that you're insecure about when you're non-committal.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm non-committal because you have these girlfriends that you fucking want ever, blah, blah, blah.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's not true.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm looking at a lifetime with you.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: You see how the boundary's starting to shift here?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at a lifetime with you, but this is not looking good for life.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because you you well, I know your soccer club, dude.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I know what it must look like to anybody who's insecure.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: I owned a gym for 20 years and it was all fucking women, pretty much.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I know what that feels like.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: I know what it looks like.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: However, there is no inappropriate conversations and text messaging.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: There is no, I mean, I did hang out with them and stuff like that, but not after we're married.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: You make you make changes.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're not married yet.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And he has made changes since this incident.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: He just really doesn't want to.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I what so here's what I said.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So he's going above and beyond trying to make sure I said, you are, because he she he showed me the text message.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: She's done with him.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm cutting it off.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: You never make me a pride.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: I said, you need to let her do that.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: If anything, give her a cool-off period because she's done with you.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing to fight for.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're fighting for each other, it gets better.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: They are fighting with each other.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's getting continually fucking worse.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I said to him, if it's not, if it's not this girl, Dan's wife, then it's gonna be somebody else.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's going to be that's gonna be somebody else.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm saying.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: I talked about how if we were because he said something like, I'll tell you right now, like, if I hung out with you, Cass is gonna come, right?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, of course.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I I explained the boundaries for our marriage, how we don't have male friends versus female friends, we have collective friends.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: He said, then it would be fine.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: But then I said, let's say she comes into town or she sees on social media that you hang out with us, then am I the next problem?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just because Dan's wife is out of the picture, so if he makes the if he makes the choice, okay, Dan and your wife, I can't hang out with you anymore, who's the next problem?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm saying.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I wouldn't actually give the boundary about Dan.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're using that as an opportunity to cause reflection within her and a hard boundary for what life looks like moving forward.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I didn't know that part of the story, but when on his done with you right now, there's nothing to talk about, really.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: He just won't I think he needs to know if he wants to fight for it, and I said there's nothing to fight for.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I wouldn't be fighting for that.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: If you so listen, we are already married, otherwise, I don't know if anybody should have to go through that level.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: He said the same thing.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: He said the same thing.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Insecurity is what they in my song Insecurity is a bridge, I say they tell them to clean up their baggage.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: They tell you to tell them to clean up their baggage.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: That is real.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: The problem is that baggage is gonna be with everybody.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to factor in that when you think about letting go of Winono right now, because everybody's gonna have their own version of whatever fucking baggage they have.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: On the flip side, though, from what I understand, it's not that she's cuckoo, but like you're dealing with insecurity, you're dealing with in, you're dealing with out, you're dealing with lots of other fucking things here that would.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean, I have a guy right now, he's he's engaged, and I'm like, dude, no fucking way.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be done with her.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't like to do that, but like you're just engaged.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: In your case, I don't think you're even engaged.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, not even together.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like she's not taking it seriously enough if she's in and out.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's not how it works.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: You can be insecure, but you can't be out when you need someone to love.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: You see, now she's she needs to let my song kill the monster.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: She's pushing you away.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Not I think that's what you described it, right?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: She says she said he's pushing her away because he got really insecure about again.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually soccer this time.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Really soccer.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I would actually I would actually use that to start the conversation when she wants to talk to you.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Cool off, though.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't because he'll look desperate, right?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: If she's saying she's done and he keeps chasing.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care if you look desperate.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: You just don't need to be desperate.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Be desperate.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, yeah.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, just essentially, if you do have a conversation with her again, she's reaching out.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, you're happy with this.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: It should feel like a weight is off, even though you're hurting right now.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so then when she reaches out, you you say, Hey, can I say something?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: No, I know you have lots to say, and I have lots to listen to, and I want to.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: But really quickly, before this goes any further, you're pushing me away.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you just shut the fuck up right there and see what she says.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start there.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: In the meantime, I don't play soccer, but if you see me, you can ask me more in person.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: See you later.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.