Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 488: Darden vs Foster. Johnson vs Tepper. Stern vs Fuqua

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MBA Wire Taps 488: Darden vs Foster. Johnson vs Tepper. Stern vs Fuqua · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:17
  Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, April 27, 2026. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going?
• 0:28
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 0:30
  Speaker A: So since we last recorded, I've been out. I was out in California. It was gloriously sunny there. Of course, it kind of seems like I was in Los Angeles and it seems like it always is out there. But I did something that you'll probably be interested in. I took my first ever autonomous taxi ride in a Waymo and it was pretty exciting, I gotta be honest.
• 0:50
  Speaker B: No, very good. I don't think I'll ever have that opportunity, but. Yeah, tell me about it.
• 0:58
  Speaker A: They don't have them in the British countryside.
• 1:00
  Speaker B: No, he called me.
• 1:01
  Speaker A: No, yeah, no, it was interesting. I mean, it is. Literally you get into a car, they're all Jaguars, kind of like an SUV type Jaguar. And it drove me from dinner to my hotel at the end of dinner, and it was pretty slick. I mean, the only thing I'll say is that I think the technology in those vehicles is like, there's no. I mean, it costs exactly the same as like taking an Uber and there's just no way that that's actually the real price. I mean, we look at what it costs to make one of these cars. So obviously they're trying to get people to use it and I guess their assumption is that as these things proliferate, it'll be cheaper and cheaper, I guess. But I don't know, it's just an interesting contrast, driving around a city that has some problems of its own. I don't think the public school system is fantastic necessarily in la or the roads could use some love and care. But then you have this state of the art vehicle taking you around, driver. And I sometimes I wonder, like, where, where are the priorities? But I'm getting political potentially here. But anyway, I just. It was. It was an exciting thing to do and it was interesting and I love technology, so I just wanted to see what it was like.
• 2:03
  Speaker B: No, I think it's fantastic. Yeah.
• 2:05
  Speaker A: Yeah. So very interesting. So this week we have a pretty packed show. I do want to hear from you what's been going on and what kind of deadlines are on the horizon. And after that we'll get into some real humans from companies like Merck, Microsoft and Barclays. And we also. I want to talk a little bit of a podcast I recorded as well. That was a bonus episode. But what's going on? Give us the Rundown on DEADLOC and dates we need to know.
• 2:26
  Speaker B: Yeah, we're seeing quite a lot of activity in terms of round three. Four decision release dates coming up. So next week, Tepper, Johns Hopkins, Carey Tuck, Kelly, isc, Ross Mendoza, Terry and Imperial all scheduled to release decisions and then for application deadlines. And we've got Fisher, Imperial, again, Brigham Young, Marriott, Schaller and Mirage out in California all have application deadlines. So for those schools that have, let's say four or five deadlines, we're moving into that final round. And then for those schools releasing round three decisions, that is starting to really sort of develop.
• 3:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. And I think one of the things that I, I'll just segue into it now and then we can do some other stuff. But I wanted to mention. So as I was talking to Ann Kilby, who's the director of admissions at Georgetown McDonough, we did a whole podcast and you can listen to it in this feed. And as I was talking to her, she was talking about how Georgetown does something not every year, but most years where they'll allow you to apply even after the last deadline if they have space. Right. And she said most years they're still willing to look at candidates. And so it's just interesting. I think a lot of schools are sort of saying, oh, we're going to go rolling to the last deadline. There's more than one school that have said this this year. And I think it's because they're still interested in getting more applications, looking at candidates. And as we know, this year's been a little bit of a down volume year for applications. And so it was just kind of interesting to hear that. So you're talking about these late deadlines. I think some of these schools are, as we said, maybe last time we recorded a bit more open than they might usually be to taking a look at candidacy. So if you're a great candidate, you might be able to get in a year earlier than you thought if you have everything ready to go. But it's an interesting thing.
• 4:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, we're going to see more of this behavior as it were from ADCOM in that sort of top 20, top 25 tiers. Right. I mean, perhaps even in the top 16 tier. But as you, as you point out, you know, it seems like application volumes are down this season and we haven't, I don't think we've seen the official final numbers but, but this is a consequence of that. And schools that, you know, their ADCOM is charged with bringing in best class that it can. And once it's done that and folks arrive in September or, you know, August, September really, it doesn't matter to them if you know the candidate applied in June or in November in the previous year. Right. Their goal is to bring in that best class.
• 5:12
  Speaker A: Right, Exactly. So they're on the lookout. Yeah. We'll see how that evolves. In the meantime, you know, if you're in sort of a dilemma around either where to attend because you're sitting on a lot of decisions, or whether you should throw in some late round apps or just wait and apply next year, join Alex and I. Alex, we're doing this thing tomorrow. On April 28th, we're going to do our monthly live stream. And if you recall, it's been a little while because last month I did it with Mike because we were doing kind of a decision day party watch party. So we're going to get together on YouTube. It's live streamed at noon Eastern on the 28th. So join us for that. You can just go to YouTube.com clearadmitmba if you want to find us. You got to subscribe to the channel if you want to be notified when we actually hit the airwaves. But it's been a lot of fun. I like doing these and I'm looking forward to catching up with you to do that again and answer people's questions.
• 6:02
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:03
  Speaker A: And after that, we get into the whirlwind month of May. We've got on May 11th our NBA fair in Atlanta. It's basically every top school that you'd ever want to consider attending coming to join us at that fair. And I've been putting together the panels for this. And I actually just had a conversation with a partner at Bain in Atlanta, Bain Company, one of the best kind of strategy consulting firms on the planet. Well, they're going to be joining as well. We're going to do a whole panel about careers. There's some other tricks up my I've got some other tricks up my sleeve too. It's just going to be a lot of fun. And yeah, we've got a great roster of schools. So come out to that. We also have virtual events that we'll do later in May on the 19th, 20th, 26th and 27th at noon Eastern. And again, similar sort of stuff where we'll be talking with top schools about the admissions process and just everything you'd need to know if you're thinking about business school. All of our events can just be found@clearadmit.com events and you can sign up there, Alex. Yeah, lots coming up as I've been saying, but it's getting closer. I'm getting a little nervous because a lot of work to do still and
• 7:05
  Speaker B: I think it's absolutely brilliant. I mean, how Clear Admit has over the years developed and nurtured those relationships with all these top business schools such that they're all attending the live event in Atlanta. When I say all, I mean all top 16 or 20, whatever it is in the U.S. and you know, the, the majority of them are also participating in these virtual events that we host throughout the year. Yeah, I mean obviously this one coming up in May is sort for folks targeting next season to start developing their application strategy. But I just think it's really good that we're able to get the support of all these top programs for these types of events. So kudos to the Clear Admit team.
• 7:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, we should pat ourselves on the back. But in any event, no, it's going to be a lot of fun. So I hope to see some of our listeners if they can make it in Atlanta in person, come up and say hi if you're there. Otherwise, Alex, on the website we continue to profile alumni from top MBA programs and there's some really great candidates this week that I wanted to just highlight briefly. So we've got this guy named John who went to Tepper, graduated a couple years ago and he's in a finance rotational program at Merck, the healthcare company. So he went to Penn State and studied electrical engineering. And then before business school he actually was a controls engineer at Georgia Transportation. So he did like six years in the transportation industry before pivoting post MBA into this current role in kind of finance at Merck. So pretty big leap there. And we asked him what about your MBA experience has prepared you for your current career? And John said my MBA strengthened my data analysis and storytelling skills and deepened my understanding of cross functional roles in, in the business. This knowledge allows me to put myself in the shoes of cross functional team members and business partners to understand their views and to explain mine. So it's a really short kind of summary that he gave about this, but I thought that was really powerful and I think it's so true when it comes to the mba.
• 9:20
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, absolutely. And I just love the convergence of engineers and top business program experience and it really sets folks up to do great things. So hopefully they're doing great things at Merck.
• 9:36
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that this idea of storytelling skills that really kind of resonates and I think we're increasingly Entering a phase of kind of the business domain where being able to kind of, you know, be persuasive, share a story, get people on board and lead is so important, especially as some of the technical skills are increasingly being performed by, you know, AI and stuff like that. So we also caught up with Kyle, who went to Rice Business School down in Houston, and he is an investment banking associate at Barclays. He's originally from Houston, Texas, and he went to Southwestern University and studied physics as an undergrad. And before going to business school, he was an infantry officer in the Marines. And he's now an investment banking associate with a focus on energy. The energy sector makes sense. He's down in Houston and it's kind of interesting. We asked him, why did you go to business school? School? And he said, when I decided it was the right time to leave the U.S. marine Corps, I spoke with several recently separated veterans to understand the best path forward. Through those conversations, it became clear that business school would not only position me for a long term success, but also provide access to opportunities and networks to accelerate my career. An MBA offered a structured way to pivot into the civilian world while building the technical and connective skills to succeed outside of the military. I thought that was really well said. And then the only other thing I touched base with him on was we said, what piece of advice do you wish you'd been given during your mba? And he had this great line. He just says, bet on yourself. Too often people disqualify themselves from a dream they once had as they begin to size up their surroundings. If you have a goal, work hard and chase it. If a crayon eating Marine can pivot into highly technical investment banking roles, a highly technical investment banking rule, then you can, you two can achieve whatever you set your mind to. And by the way, Alex, I had to look this up because I had no idea what he meant by a crayon eating Marine. And there's apparently memes on the Internet about this. I guess it's because the Marines, it's so hard to get into the Marines and it's kind of the elite force. You know, in the US Sometimes people joke that they're kind of, you have to take like an IQ test again, et cetera. So people, the joke is that they're all not smart and so that they're the little kids that eat the crayons, because it's not true at all, obviously. So anyway, that's where that comes from. But that's his advice. He went military to Rice, and now an Investment banking associate. So pretty cool transition.
• 12:09
  Speaker B: Yeah. But Graham, he didn't do art history as an undergraduate major.
• 12:13
  Speaker A: No, he did physics.
• 12:14
  Speaker B: Yes. So that's my point. He's being a little humble here, I reckon.
• 12:19
  Speaker A: Yeah, I would say. But in any event. Yeah.
• 12:21
  Speaker B: Not that there's anything wrong with your major. He's pointing out that there's some academic analytical chops going into this whole process. Yes.
• 12:31
  Speaker A: Although all this talk about physics and the first person was an engineer. I will say I've met a couple of very accomplished people recently who are deans of business schools who have liberal arts degrees as undergraduates. Obviously they then went on to do business and a PhD et cetera. But just saying there's room in the world.
• 12:48
  Speaker B: No. Dang.
• 12:50
  Speaker A: All right, last but not least, we caught up with Dave, who is a Stern grad. He graduated back in 23, so a few years ago at this point and he is a senior business development manager at Microsoft. He's from Manhasset, New York and he went to Colgate College where he majored in geography. There you go. This guy's more my speed. And his pre MBA work experience was he worked at a whole bunch of different New York City based startups for about six years, primarily in sales roles. And his post MBA experience, As I said, he's a senior business development manager at Microsoft. He's been there for more than two and a half years now and he's focused on consumer tech. And we asked him, well, why did you go to Stern? And he said Stern's emphasis on IQ and EQ really resonated with me. Additionally, I heard the alumni network was incredible and I wanted to be in New York, the greatest city in the world. We also asked him if he had any advice that he wished that someone had given him when he was doing his mba. And he said, spend some time thinking critically about exactly what you want to do. I talk to a lot of students and they say that they want to do something broad like product management. Well, what type of products do you want to work on? What type of companies, what markets? Why? In a competitive job market, you need to know the answers to these questions. Companies want to hire people who can clearly communicate why they want that role. Figure out what you want to do and then everything after that will come much easier. So that's Dave's advice. Stern grad. What do you make of that?
• 14:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, the advice is spot on. Right. And especially in this world in which we live now, it's much more competitive, especially job markets and so forth. So so, yeah, no, I really like it. And he's done the classic transition. Right. He's gone from sales to business development through the MBA experience. And I just think those two types of roles are quite aligned.
• 14:50
  Speaker A: Agreed. Yeah. So anyway, I love those alums and I want to thank them for connecting with us. And it's just great to get these stories. I think it really helps those tuning into the show and reading our site to just get a feel for what you can do after business school. I did want to mention you can write to Alex and I, as always, by writing to infoearadmit.com and use the subject line wiretaps. Other than that, Alex, you picked out three candidates to discuss this week, and I think we should get on with it.
• 15:16
  Speaker B: Let's kick on. And I'm betting that this might be the shortest show.
• 15:21
  Speaker A: I don't know.
• 15:21
  Speaker B: We'll see that we've recorded. So I'm putting that out there now.
• 15:25
  Speaker A: All right. All right. We will see. So this is wiretaps candidate number one.
• 15:33
  Speaker B: Are we done? Not quite.
• 15:38
  Speaker A: So our first candidate this week is coming from a decision wire entry. And actually, I think all three this week you picked are decision wire entries. So this is someone who applied to Berkeley, mit, Kellogg, Darden and Foster. And they ended up with offers at Berkeley with a $20,000 scholarship, at Darden with an $80,000 scholarship, and at University of Washington, Foster with a full ride scholarship. They were not accepted to Sloan or Kellogg. They had a GMAT score of 645. And they say that their goal is to work for MBB. So either McKinsey, Bain or BCG and consulting on the west coast, preferably in Seattle. And they're wondering how should they weigh scholarships versus geography? So, Alex, what do you make of this? You got a full ride and Foster, which is in Seattle, some money, not much. At Haas on the west coast, and then Darden with 80k on the east coast. So what do you think of this?
• 16:35
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you can make a case for each of these options, I think.
• 16:38
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 16:39
  Speaker B: And obviously that's why they're undecided. But you know, if. If they really want mbb, which seems to be the case. Right. That seems to be the. The most important. So MBB and being in Seattle, but it seems like MBB is probably more important
• 16:58
  Speaker A: that.
• 16:58
  Speaker B: Then I'd say that Foster is probably going to be the most challenging for them. I don't know what their recruiting record directly is for a pipeline into mvb, but I would scrutinize that very closely to see if it's viable. But I suspect it's a lot more viable and a lot more accessible at Darden and even at Haas. Although Haas might focus a bit more on sort of, you know, finance and technology and startup and so on and so forth. But. But the point is, if it's sort of MBB or bust, I. I would potentially steer them away a little bit from Foster, even though they've got a full ride there. If they wanted Tier two consulting or whatever, then, yeah, Foster's a fantastic opportunity and it's a free ride and it's in their geography. But to me, geography comes second here. And even if they do end up enrolling at Darden, and we had this conversation before we came on air, Graham, they could probably have a conversation when they're recruiting for MBB to get them placement in the Seattle area. So I think Darden probably is the right answer to this puzzle, Graham.
• 18:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's tricky, right? I think there are a lot of sort of components in play and it's. Yeah. I mean, the truth is that the likes of Darden are, you know, Darden is so known for this domain. Right. I mean, that's just sort of bread and butter stuff. And so, yeah, it's challenging to sort of figure out. I mean, there are just full disclosure, like. And again, we don't know the percentage that are going to MBB specifically, but I believe like around 30% of, like the Foster class does some kind of consulting. The issue, though, comes back to more around whether they're. Are those jobs at mbb, because that's what this person wants. I tend to feel in this instance, like Berkeley, there's not much money. It is on the west coast, but as you say, maybe not as noted for MBB placement. And so Darden sort of stands out to me because they're giving them 80,000 and it's a school that's just so famous for being really good at preparing strategy consultants. So, yeah, this is a tough. I understand, as you say, there's a reason they're undecided. Right. But I don't know, I feel like, you know, I think I mentioned this to you before we came on air, but I remember when I was at Wharton, if you wanted to work at McKinsey, it was mostly about making it through the interview process. And then you could, you know, you could actually indicate to them as you went through that process, well, these are the offices I'd be interested in. And then you would go out and have your final round interviews in those offices, etc. Right. So I just feel like that's where going to Darden and just telling them I want to be in the Seattle office is fine, you know, so in any event, it is a tough call, but that's where I'm kind of leaning.
• 19:47
  Speaker B: Yeah, very good.
• 19:48
  Speaker A: All right, so let's move on. I want to thank you for picking that one out, and hopefully that person can keep us posted as to where they go. But let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week, again from a decision wire entry, this person's undecided. They applied to Cornell, Carnegie Mellon, Michigan, and Stern, and they ran the table. Right. So they got into Carnegie Mellon with $110,000 scholarship. Cornell is offering them $90,000, Michigan, Ross, 60,000, and Stern, no scholarship. They had a 4.0 GPA. They did not tell us about a test. I don't know if they had to take one for those schools because maybe they waived. In any event, they mention in the note they say, I really like Tepper. The feedback I'm getting from, from the finance club there is that out of the nine students that were recruiting for investment banking, seven got offers, and six of those seven were from bulge bracket banks. Am I shooting myself in the foot if I don't go with Johnson? So it does sound like they're kind of between that big offer at Carnegie Mellon, 110,000, and the slightly smaller offer, 90,000 at Cornell. Feels like they're not really considering Stern, I guess, because there's no money there at all. But what do you make of this?
• 21:02
  Speaker B: I think they're shooting themselves in the foot. Isn't that the question they asked?
• 21:07
  Speaker A: That is the question they asked, yeah.
• 21:09
  Speaker B: I mean, TAP is a very good school. There's no doubt about that. And they probably will be able to recruit into investment banking if they do everything right, et cetera, et cetera. But, you know, those numbers seem quite small to me, Graham. Nine. Seven out of nine. So I imagine those numbers are a factor above at Cornell, Johnson in terms of the number of students looking to recruit into investment banking. And we know Johnson, that's its bread and butter. That's how Johnson stands out, right? Its investment banking programs and so on and so forth. So if you want investment banking, I think, you know, the, the, the difference in, in scholarship money, 110k to 90k. I think that's all. I'm not saying it's marginal. I mean, 20 grand is meaningful. But I think Johnson is in slightly higher Tier. It's Ivy League. It has a very renowned investment banking pipeline. Its proximity to New York and so forth makes me think that New York Johnson will be the better choice in this case.
• 22:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, I tend to agree. I mean, I think obviously if it depends on their, like, their emphasis here, but if it really is 100% investment banking, I want to be in New York City, then it's hard to walk away, especially from a $90,000 scholarship at Cornell. Obviously, if it was like, oh, Cornell's not giving me anything and Carnegie Mellon's giving me a lot of money, then, okay, we could start to have that conversation. But it just. Yeah, it seems like a tough call. Yeah. I mean, it's not easy. I understand why they're hesitating, but I would tend to agree with you and think that Cornell's a great fit for this person.
• 22:49
  Speaker B: Yep.
• 22:50
  Speaker A: So, all right, let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. So our final candidate this week, again from a decision wire entry, and again from a candidate who can't decide where to go. This person applied to Columbia, Duke, and Stern. Okay. And they got in to Duke and they actually have a little bit of a scholarship, $60,000. They got into Stern, but with no money. And they are currently on the wait list at Columbia, and they have about 10 days to send a deposit to either Duke or Stern. They got to make a decision here. Their GPA as an undergrad was a 3.61. This candidate is from Miami, Florida. They talk about how what they want to do afterwards is to work at McKinsey, Bain or BCG. They also said that they really liked the collaborative and warm culture at Duke. Also very highly structured support for recruiting. But then they say, but Stern has that New York City factor, plus the EQ and IQ emphasis that they make in their recruiting process for candidates. They do say they love New York City and could see themselves being really happy there. What should they do?
• 24:03
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah, actually, you made a really good point before we came on air. So I hate to steal your trumpet here a little bit, Graham, but probably deposit at Stern, I think. I think even though Fuqua has given them a nice scholarship, I think there's. There's some reason for them to be ambivalent about the scholarship. Right? Yes.
• 24:28
  Speaker A: Yeah. So they said, as they said they're a veteran. And they said, as a veteran, finances don't really play a significant factor in my decision making process because tuition fees and lodging are covered. And they said that if they get in off the waitlist to Colombia, they will accept in a heartbeat. So. Yeah, so that's the back. Yeah, I should have shared that before. Yeah.
• 24:46
  Speaker B: So that's important. So if we take the emphasis off the scholarship, I think with the scholarship differential and that, yeah, Fuqua would be a really strong choice here. But I think we go with Stern and going all in on trying to get off the waitlist at Columbia. And as you point out, then they're in the same city anyway. So if Colombia comes back to them in June, July to make them the offer, they're going to be more flexible to accept that offer if they're already looking at apartments and various other things to be based in New York City. So to me, I think Stern would be the option and thinking about it as a potential sort of short term option with the hope that they convert the wait list.
• 25:36
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, you're right. It is interesting that they don't have the scholarship kind of goes out the window because everything's covered because they're probably on the. There's probably something with the military where they're being funded. Right. So, yeah. And I, yeah, it does sound like they really want to go to cbs. And I'm going to throw in one other factor here, which is that if ever there was a year where waitlist movement might be more prevalent than others, this might be the year. Right. So I think that if they can do some things to demonstrate interest to cbs, I mean, they did, they did not.
• 26:04
  Speaker B: Test score.
• 26:05
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 26:05
  Speaker B: Take the test. Take the test.
• 26:07
  Speaker A: Yeah. So it seems like they didn't share a test score and I wonder if that means they didn't take a test or maybe they just took the EA or whatever the case. Yeah, it would be good to know because if there's something that they could ever, they could pull to get themselves up over the, over the line at Columbia, this would be the time to work on that. And they have, you know, several months here. And as you say, if they're in New York already, they can just at the drop of a hat, pivot. So in any event, yes, I mean, it's a tricky thing. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:31
  Speaker B: At this point, I mean, I don't know Colombia's current process with waitlist, but hopefully they've gotten a waitlist manager, they've reached out. If not, they should try to seek that out, that opportunity and, and, you know, really reaffirm to Colombia that one, it's their top choice and they would go in a heartbeat and just make that very clear. That's very important to Colombia. And two, if they haven't taken the GMAT or gre. And like you say, maybe they did an EA or maybe they waived the test. Tell them that they're now preparing to take one of those two standardized tests to further mitigate any question that they might have had in terms of that preparedness. I don't think they probably had much question. They've got a 361 GPA, but nevertheless, that further reinforces how keen they are to get into Colombia.
• 27:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. And I think while it's possible they could have waived with. With. With Duke and nyu, I think Colombia requires. But maybe they could have taken the EA is my guess.
• 27:34
  Speaker B: Yeah. Because Columbia and Stern allow the ea. We know that.
• 27:37
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think Duke does.
• 27:38
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 27:38
  Speaker A: In any event. Yeah. So whatever they need to do, they should take a hard look at their candidacy and work on that weightless strategy really hard and then deposit it at Stern and go from there. But in any event. Yeah. Lots of dilemmas this week. I do want to thank the. The couple of military candidates we talked about this week for their service, but obviously, Alex, I want to thank you as well for picking out such great dilemmas to debate and. Yeah, let's get back together next week and do it again. Very good.
• 28:03
  Speaker B: Take care, everyone. Stay safe.