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Developing a Mindset for Success (with Andrew Mundy) · The Daily Writer

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Does your mind need a tune-up?
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you're human, the answer is yes.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Your mind is like a guitar and constantly needs to be tuned if you're going to play the beautiful music of success.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hello, my friend.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is Kent Sanders from Equal Ghostwriting.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to this episode of the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is the show that helps you grow your business, amplify your authority, and increase your impact through the power of writing.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: As always, thanks so much for joining me on this episode.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm excited that my good friend Andrew Mundy is joining me today to talk about this critical issue of mindset.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of tools for success as writers, but no tool is more important than your mindset.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: The way that you think determines your level of success in every area of your life.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew is an achievement coach who helps people develop their mindset.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I can tell you firsthand that Andrew is a master in this area because we spent a few months last year together as he helped me develop a much stronger mindset.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: He's a great coach, leader, and thinker.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew's going to help us understand what mindset is, why it's important, and how to develop a stronger one.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: You'll also learn some habits for success, including meditation and visualization.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've personally benefited from Andrew's wisdom, and I'm really excited that he can share it with you in this conversation.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: All right, without further ado, let's get to the conversation with my friend, Andrew Mundy.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Andrew, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's great to have you on the show.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is your first appearance, correct?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is, and thanks so much for having me here.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: This almost sounds like a talk show or something.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is your first appearance on the Smart Business Writing Podcast, you know, as if I'm some big well-known TV game show host or something.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, no, it's all good.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm happy to be here.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: I did watch my share of The Price Is Right growing up, so I guess I come by it honestly.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Got that natural voice right there.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: We won't be playing any Plinko today, though.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's too bad, yeah.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: I always think like going back, like, what was my favorite game on The Price Is Right?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there's so many good ones.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: There were so many good ones.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was watching what what was it yesterday?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: I came across some kind of a thing regarding uh Wheel of Fortune.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it was talking about how Vanna White had been on the show, and I guess Pat Sajek had been on the show for like 37 years, which just blows me away.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I know, yeah.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I saw I read an article about that a few months ago, and just like their their sort of like their experience of it over the years and stuff like that, and where they're at now is pretty interesting.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And they said that they only that they only film, I think, four days a month.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: So they must cram it on to like a week.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's insane.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like it's kind of funny when you think about it, right?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because Wheel of Fortune's always on at like seven o'clock at night.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like when you read that article, it's like, oh, they must film it all day.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: For those days, right?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's it's super interesting.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I have no idea how we got off on that.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh probably the fact that I've had too much caffeine today, I'm sure that was a contributing factor.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: But we are here to talk about mindset, and whenever I think of mindset, you are the first person that comes to mind immediately because you have helped me with my mindset, but also you talk about it a lot on Facebook.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: You talk about it various places, and um I think you're a great person to have on to talk about developing a great mindset.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess the first question I want to throw out there is what is mindset exactly and why is it so important?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's that's uh it's funny.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's a it's a good question.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, um, you know, I might not have the exact definition of it in my in, you know, ready to go, but I always think of mindset as like the the psyche and your sort of how your viewpoint of the world is, right?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the viewpoint of the world in front of you and and just as yourself as a person.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so obviously when we think about mindset, you know, we have thoughts happening all the time in our in our in our day, right?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, thousands and thousands and thousands of thoughts.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, so a matter of when it comes to mindset, it's it's really just how how are we sort of thinking about the lives that we live and you know sort of steering you know our lives forward.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, that's sort of really how I see mindset.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's you know, there's different there's definitely more that we can discuss on that for sure.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now we are both involved in Vincent Pugliese's total life freedom community and have been for some time.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of successful people there, obviously.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say the difference between successful people and non-successful people is?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: How however however we would define that?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: I know you could probably define that lots of different ways.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I know it's always dangerous to categorize people, but for the sake of argument and I guess playing the devil's advocate a little bit, uh as we think about success versus non-success, what are the differences that you see in terms of successful people have a certain type of mindset or they have certain habits or qualities versus non-successful people are lacking a certain kind of mindset?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe they have certain things that are part of a negative mindset.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything that comes to mind regarding that?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the first thing that always comes to mind for me is um just the a lot of the successful people that I see out there, they just have a mentality that they're never gonna give up on what they're doing.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, there's there's a couple parts to that.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: But predominantly like they're they're very resilient, focused people who when when they get an idea, they they push towards that idea.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like they just they're gonna keep going forward no matter what, no matter what challenges come in their way.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um they always move forward.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I really find with um the successful people that I see is that um it's not you know the the term like an overnight success, right?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I think it's uh very rare, almost non-existent thing.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, most people that you see that are successful, it's taken them years to get there.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And usually they've been focused on one specific path path, right?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so um that's really how I classify, you know, that sort of a successful type personality.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, uh they're focused on one specific area, um, they have a resilient sort of mindset, and they just don't give up.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you help someone who is not focused?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking of myself because you you were a huge help to me over the last several months working with me and helping me to get focused on what I needed to do.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: How but it but in general, what's the process for someone getting more focused in what they want to accomplish?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: I guess whether it's maybe a health goal, financial goal, career goal, something related to a side hustle or vocation or anything, is there something some kind of commonality that you see with people who are unfocused and and how how they can become more focused and what they really want to achieve?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great question.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the the one thing that I've really um found over the last year um that really you know touches me in that way is that when somebody has a big goal that they're focused on, right?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like they they've got one specific thing that they're focused on.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: So if they're focused on creating a business, they get very clear on what they want in that business.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then they they automatic they start processing the steps to get to that goal.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, the and so how I look at that is that they've got this one clear big thing that they're focused on and they just move towards it.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas um a lot of the times I see when people are are not as focused, they they almost have too many different goals or too many different ideas happening at the same time.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: So they can never really get traction on one single thing.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then it it just it causes a lot of frustration and um almost just jumping from one thing to the next because they just they don't have that one thing that they can sit stay focused on for a specific period of time.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that is so true.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've been reading my journals again.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure, but it sounds very familiar.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a business, a business writing podcast, and obviously a lot of people listening to this are writers.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people want to make money writing or they want to build a business around their writing, but there's so many options for doing that.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: For the person who's listening who says, I really want to create a business with my writing, or I want to create a larger business for my writing, but I don't know which option to choose.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: How does somebody get focused on one option when you have such a wide range of opportunities available today?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, I'll probably go a little bit against the green on this to start.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's all that's all I would I would probably say first off, find the the area of writing that people are making money in.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: That you know, there is a need and people are making money in initially, right?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um because um I just feel that you know if there's an automatic need for a particular style of writing, that you're already gonna have a leg up in a sense.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and then from there I would start to look at, okay, where where does my skill set sort of match?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: So whether that's content writing, um, you know, copywriting, that type of stuff, like then you can sort of work from there.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: But um yeah, I mean, and the one thing I'll say to that too is that it's not always um you can't always exactly have the steps mapped out.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: You might have to try a few things out to figure out what really resonates with you.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, eventually once you find that path, I mean, that's you know, then you kind of stick with that writing style that you like.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a really critical point, and that I'd love to dig into a little bit.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: So just to be really clear, you what you're saying is that and I'm maybe I'm putting the words in your mouth a little bit, which I don't mean to, and tell me if I am so that it's not so much about what you feel like you should write about or what you're passionate about.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to build an actual money-making business from your writing, or from any skill set for that matter, I guess, that you have to figure out what people are actually willing to pay for, not just about what you want to do.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because you know, I I look at it, you know, the world in general.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are there are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of people who are going to classify themselves as some sort of a writer, right?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to you have to be able to find you know which market really needs writers and where you can kind of fit into that.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: See, that is that is such a critical point because so many writers, we're so I don't know if Andrew, if you relate to this or not, but I'm sure that many people do, in the sense that writers are so closely tied emotionally to their work.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and so oftentimes we think of, I just I want to write about this, or I feel passionate about this, or I'm like I get my emotional kicks out of writing this type of thing, or however we would describe that.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: But really, that has nothing to do with creating a business.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's really about what service are people willing to pay for, what's valuable to them, not what we want to do necessarily.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I think that there's always, you know, may there will be a time and a place where maybe that that passion, you know, that you know, where where you can really pick and choose the projects or the type of writing you want to do, that's gonna come, you know, down the road.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, uh initially you're gonna have to, you know, you might have to take the projects that you don't, you know, necessarily want to work on initially or long term, you know, to sort of build that base.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: So your area is copywriting.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk a little bit about your experience in copywriting in terms of doing as to why you chose copywriting, I guess, in the first place, as opposed to other kinds of a writing business.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: But then also, is there a demand for copywriting?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is that as far as like all the different kinds of writing that you could do, is that more profitable than say other kinds of writing?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so first of all, um, the reason why I actually got into copywriting um was uh when I was sort of looking at business models and and you know what to get into, I was of the understanding that you know if you could become a good copywriter, you would also be able to learn how to sell things well, right?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and that in itself is a valuable skill you had to have.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: So whether you work for a company or you end up having your own business, just being able to have those skills are extremely valuable.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that was sort of what pushed me to get into copywriting.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then to answer the second part of that question, you know, do I think that um copywriting is is uh you know a viable industry?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I I don't think it's something that you know you you do have to be committed to it.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like you can just pick up one copywriting book and you're ready to go.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think that um there is a lot of demand out there for copywriters.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and the the reason why I say that is because ultimately every business um needs to sell.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, who who can help sell?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Copywriters.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, for sure.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, copywriting is such a uh it's just out there everywhere.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, almost to the to the degree of basically anytime you see words, I mean, that's copy on some level.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Anything in a magazine or a website or or podcast show notes, I mean, I guess it's all copy on some level.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: So what are some good resources that you just off the top of your head you might recommend to somebody who wants to get better at copywriting?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And and I know that's a super loaded question because it's a very deep field, but if somebody wants to just kind of dip their toe into it, what are some things that they should check out?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, putting me on the spot here.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but uh yeah.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, um I can come back and add stuff to the show notes later.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: No, for sure.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm just trying to think, you know, at a very at the you know, at the beginner level for sure, there's a there's a book called Cash Advertising by Drew Whitman.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a great perspective of marketing overall.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, I still use that book quite regularly for creating headlines and leads um for the copywriting that I do.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then from there, there's another book called Great Leads by Michael Masterson.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's an amazing book because what he talks about in that book is that there's basically six stages of awareness in the buyer's process.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: All the way from the person has no idea about your brand or product or even that they have an issue to this person's ready to buy, where's the buy button?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Basically.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so it's a great read just to see, you know, um, I would say copywriting at a at a higher level, but you can still um really pull elements from it to get started.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then from there, um, there's some good copywriting programs.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's um it's called the American American Writers Association, AWAI.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: They've got some great um beginner copywriting resources, and then I would say, you know, from sort of a step up from there, um, there's an individual named Kevin Rogers who runs Copy Chief, um, which is a copywriting membership, that um he's got some excellent, excellent resources.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm making some notes.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no problem.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: The question is will they be legible later on when I go to type up my show notes?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: That is always that is always my question that I ask myself.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: You go back to refer to them, you're like, ah, yeah, I'm like, I have no idea what I just wrote.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: I should have been a doctor.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: If if Sal if like income was based on the poorness of your handwriting, then I would have been a multimillionaire years ago.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you are a coach and you work with coaching clients, and uh, I have been, um you have coached me as well, which I took so much away from.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I was reviewing my notes from our coaching sessions uh a little while back, and man, there was so much there that was applicable and that is helping me even this morning, you know, as I journaled and just went through some thought processes and so forth.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: As you work with with coaching clients, what are some of the biggest problems that you see with mindset, especially in regards to building a business or to becoming more successful?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like what are the hangups people have as you have coached them and that trip them up?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, you know, there's a few that have become pretty apparent as of late.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would say that one of the main ones is sort of perfectionism, where especially, you know, you talk about writers, marketers.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's very it can be a challenge, you know, when we're developing products for others that we want them to be perfect and and you know, for the client to absolutely love what we are putting out there.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes what that results in is that we just spend way too much time trying to make this masterful, um masterful piece in a sense.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And um it can be very challenging.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: It can be very challenging for for people, you know, even just um, you know, I've had somebody say to me, Well, you know, I I'm I'm worried about sending this email to somebody because I I'm worried about what they'll think.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, in that sense, I just I challenge them and I said, Well, you're just gonna write the email and send it, you know, because you know, you have to it it's hard, but we have to get away from from trying to be perfect all the time.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's nobody in this world is perfect and nobody expects you to be perfect.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that's definitely one piece of it for sure.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: So how do you get past that as a writer?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do you just like like at what level do you say, okay, it's good enough, I'm gonna send it, even though you know whatever you're doing could be improved and you could work on it some more and tweak it.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a point like in your mind where you go, okay, it's 90% there, I'm gonna go ahead and send it?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for me, it's been a little bit easier, I'd say, in the sense that um I get, you know, I I do a lot of email cooperating for the company that I work with.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so um when I send an email, I get feedback basically right away from our email list, you know, as to, you know, A, how many people are opening the email and clicking the links and you know, ultimately buying the products.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I think having feedback like that is very important because um what it what that does is eventually when you've run a few campaigns and with your writing, um, you almost just feel at ease because you know it's just like, hey, this was not perfect, this could have been improved, but ultimately it it got sales.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, what's the big deal?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in terms of you know, when we look at other writing pieces, like you know, writing content or that type of thing, or you just you kind of just have to just um give yourself the freedom and and let go a little bit.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's gonna be okay.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's always, you know, it there's always gonna be another day where you're gonna get to put another piece of content out there.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: See, that is such a critical insight, and I'm I'm so glad we're having this conversation because I hadn't anticipated that we were gonna talk about perfectionism.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like that wasn't in my notes that I thought through, but this is such an important topic.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: For example, I was talking to a writer just a couple days ago on Facebook, and they were talking about how they had written two novels and they had never released them.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I I would just I was losing my mind going, Are you kidding me?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's insane to me.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: You've written two novels and you haven't done anything with them.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, Well, we're I'm just kind of like waiting for an agent and a publisher and blah, blah, blah.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm just going nuts thinking, just put the suckers out there.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I love this idea, and this is what's so valuable about email marketing, is that you put the stuff out there and you immediately see metrics as to what's resonating and what's not.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So uh it seems like it's kind of important that uh if we're writing, and especially if we want to have a business around that, we've got to have some way to some regular system of putting our stuff out there, and we've got to get over ourselves and put it out there, and then we have data to back up whether it's good or not.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: We can tell immediately.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I mean I think the biggest thing I found too is that ultimately um, you know, people just, you know, you know, people are going to to read what you put out there, people are going to buy the products that you sell.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a like you said, it's just a matter of just l doing it.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because you're you're gonna get that feedback, you know, regardless, right?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: The only time you're not gonna get the feedback is when you don't put it out there.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: That is, man, that is so true.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and what's really the worst that can happen?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when you send an email that is theoretically not any good, the worst that's gonna happen is that people just aren't gonna open it or or read it or take action on it.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like they're gonna come and and burn down your house or something.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and um I've probably sent some pretty bad emails, you know, and you know, that may it probably didn't connect with too many people, but um it's just you know what, at the end of the day, you know, it my job is is to bring in sales for the company, and that email did bring in sales, right?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's just it the more you do it, the more you put stuff out into the world, just the easier it gets.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's probably the simplest way to describe it.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: When you put something out there, like an email, for example, that doesn't connect or that flops, however you would define that, how do you emotionally deal with that?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you is it hard for you not to beat yourself up?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you kind of have a distance emotionally where you just go, well, that didn't go so well, here's what I learned, and I'll just move on to the next thing.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great question, actually.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm happy you asked that.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: So um for myself, I've actually trained my mind to to when I, you know, when I think about I don't even really think that an email I send out is bad anymore.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's because um I use A technique where I basically think of the past email campaigns that I've launched that have been successful.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I've launched an$80,000 email campaign, I've launched another$50,000 email campaign.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: So when somebody sends an email to our customer service team saying, like, oh, the grammar sucked on that email, or you know, that was a whore, you know, I just think, well, you know, that's unfortunate, but I've got this history backing up that I get results, right?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's almost like a mindset shift.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: That that is such an important insight.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really glad you mentioned that.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: An important insight for writers because sometimes we have this, and I'm just speaking from a perfectionist writer standpoint, we have this idea that it's gotta be perfect, it's gotta be like Shakespeare or Hemingway quality.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever I put something into words and you know, like the birds have to sing and a beam of light has to come down from heaven and like shine as I'm typing on my computer and that kind of stuff.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: But really the the measurement is does it get results?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it ultimately it it doesn't matter if it's perfect or not, it's does it get the desired result that you want it to achieve?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that is so hard for I think people with an artistic myth, especially because we're like, oh, what I'm doing is like my art and it's my soul and my creative life.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes you just gotta step back and go, you know, I'm just it's a job.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're doing a job just like a plumber is, just like a doctor or an attorney is.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe it is art, but especially if you're writing for money, I mean, that's this is a job that we're doing to get a specific result.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, can you talk a little bit about um your meditation and or your visualization techniques?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Those have been so helpful for me, and I know you're very passionate about that and have really thought a lot about those and studied a lot about it.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I know we don't have adequate time to go into like the depths of that because there's a lot to it.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: But can you talk a little bit about how those have helped you and maybe some steps where people can get started with visualization or meditation?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um so for me, meditation um and visualization really um was something that I got into probably towards the end of 2018.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that was that sort of the catalyst of that was a book called Psychocybernetics, which uh we've talked about before.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um and what that's done for for me specifically is that every day, that's sort of like the critical piece that has to be in my day.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um and because what that does is a part of my visualization process is that I visualize the the main, the biggest thing that I want to happen that day, in a sense.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um and what that does is that kind of gives me clarity um, you know, for the for the entire day.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when it comes to writing, I actually do a specific visualization practice almost every single time before I write a piece um of content.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, what that does is that it puts you in a very freeing and flowing state.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: So when you start writing, that you're just very calm and you're very present with what you're you're putting on paper, so to speak.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's fascinating because a sense of calmness seems to be what's missing from our whole culture right now.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: So is there anything more specific you can share with us about here's like some specific ways to get more calm, to get more focused, to visualize those kind of things?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um in terms of of writing, so you know, again, mine my my style of writing is very copywriting, you know, sales specific.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: So um I kind of will sit down for a five-minute period and I'll just go into sort of a relaxed state, which you could just, you know, use um an app like Insight Timer or the Calm app just to sort of you know get yourself relaxed, get yourself um just you know in a in a very peaceful state.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then what I do is I actually visualize um some specific steps happening.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I actually visualize um a person who's going to be reading the content.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, so if I'm writing an email, for example, I'm gonna visualize that the person is sitting there in their chair, they're and they're reading the headline of the email that I'm writing.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna click the email, they're gonna read the copy that's in the email, and then they're gonna click the link, which brings them to the sales page, and then they're gonna read the sales page and they're gonna buy the product.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so the cool thing with that is that you can actually apply this to any style of writing, right?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you could do the same process if somebody was writing a blog or reading a blog, for example, or sorry, writing a blog, you would visualize somebody going through the steps of actually reading that blog, and maybe the end result is them commenting or going to one of your social media pages or something like that.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a really cool practice.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: I really love that.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now I know some people listening, if they've never been exposed to these kinds of things, they're probably thinking, okay, this sounds a little bit woo-woo or a little bit strange or uh whatever label they want to put on it.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: But there really is a sense, and I believe this, that when you visualize something and and you have that that image or that emotion locked in your mind, that in a sense you're creating that reality.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I don't know how that works.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I I'm not like very much of like a mystical, magical kind of a person at all.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: But but there is a reality to that where you visualize something and then your actions, uh the actions that you take as a result of that help to bring about that reality more so than they would if you didn't visualize that.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is that an accurate way to frame that?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and you know, sort of the additional piece to that is that when you're in that visualization process, right?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're you're sort of you're moving that outcome, right?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like you you're seeing that outcome happen, you know, from step to step to step.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then once you step, you know, out of the visualization practice and into your writing, what you want to do then is sort of drop all those, you you almost want to drop your expectations.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: You want to be neutral to the outcome.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: So what that allows you to do is just start writing, right?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're not worried about, oh, does this sense does this line make sense?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Or you just write and then you you know you do the best job you can, and then you can go back through the editing process and that type of thing.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty cool.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that's great.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: I could talk about this stuff all day because you just you have so much wisdom to share in such a wide variety of areas.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that that's the struggle I have on this podcast all the time is I'm like, I could talk to this person for three hours.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's not usually practical to do.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is really, really great stuff.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: So absolutely um gosh, I've got so many other things here I want to throw out here, but keep asking and I'm I'm good.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: I got okay.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um one thing I want to ask you about, and this will be my final question actually, is do you have any thoughts on uh tracking goals or any kind of a system that you use to help track what your goals are and um just to keep those top of mind so that those can be in the forefront of your mind as you plan your week or your month or your quarter.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you know, um one of the easiest sort of reference points for that is that I used um the 12-week year system um from the author Brian Moran.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's great.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's and so the reason why I like having a quarterly system to track goals is that it keeps everything sort of front and center.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, for me I've kind of merged a few resources together, but you know, the simplest format is that you have the quarterly structure and then you review sort of like so you'd have your quarterly goals in place, and then you want to review them uh you so then it goes into sort of like, you know, what are my my three priorities for this this month, and then you start to sort of break it down on a week by week basis, right?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: So and then so that week by week, then you so you've got sort of like a quarterly vision, you've got a monthly vision, you've got a weekly vision, which breaks down into the daily vision, right?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: So what you find, what I find is that things don't get lost when you have a system like that.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know for a lot of people, what they'll do is they'll set goals and they'll be excited and you know energetic about it, but when they don't have the system in place, they start to forget about it.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's like one of the biggest causes of people not achieving their goals is that they just forget, you know, they forget what they were initially setting out to do, and then ultimately things kind of fall off the tracks.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, totally, totally.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I know you really helped me to be more organized in that sense, and that was a massive help.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the 12-week year is a really, really great place to start.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, it's a short book, which I like personally.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that says more about my short attention span than anything else, but but uh, you know, maybe that as it may, I guess.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Andrew, this has been a blast.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um gosh, I really appreciate how you've helped me personally and all the value that you're adding out into the world through your copywriting, coaching, your involvement in our Total Life Freedom community.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so many awesome ways.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I just really appreciate you.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, for sure.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to to be here and uh yeah, it's it's been it's been great.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: How can people connect with you and find out more about your coaching and your work overall?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um, you know, right now Facebook is actually probably the best way to get in contact with me.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I'm just I've got a Facebook profile.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I do have a website coming out in the future, it's just under my name, which will be andrewmundy.com.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's not it's not it's not ready yet.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, maybe in the future if somebody's listening, that's where they'll be able to find me.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, for now, uh Facebook is probably the best place to find me.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds great.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'll have a link to that in the show notes, as well as the resources that you mentioned.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: So lots and lots of good stuff there.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one more resource I would recommend um for the visualization practice um for writing specifically.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: There is a copywriter named Matt Fury.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, last name is F-U-R-E-Y.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: He has a specific copywriting program.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's called the TAO of copywriting.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's where I've learned those visualization techniques from.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm running this down here.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Andrew, thanks so much.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate your time uh on the podcast today.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: This has been fantastic, and I can't wait for us to do this again sometime soon.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds great.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for having me here.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that was a really fun conversation with Andrew.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: I learned a ton and really appreciated him taking time to be on the show.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've boiled this down to my three biggest takeaways.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: So here they are.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, find out where people are making money writing.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is a really critical point for writers.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is really, really super critical.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: So if you get nothing else out of this episode, please hear this.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: So many writers want to make money with their writing, but they aren't establishing a business model that actually makes money.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And this was my frustration for several years.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that you have to reverse engineer this process.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: The two highest paid forms of writing for hire are copywriting and ghostwriting.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, you can make money from your own books, and you can make money in lots of other ways from your writing and books.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: But the quickest way, if you want to write as a service for others, is to do copywriting or ghostwriting.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I chose ghostwriting because I like the straightforward nature of writing business books, and I like longer, more in-depth projects.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that being said, I really, really love copywriting.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if you get into copywriting, you'll find there's tons of opportunities there, and copywriters are like the gold of the writing world because you can't really sell anything without good copy.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: So copywriters are amazing.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: And Andrew, by the way, is an awesome copywriter.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: But back to the point here, if you're frustrated that you aren't making any money with your writing, look and see what industries you're serving and if the type of writing that you're doing is valued highly.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I've written a lot of podcast show notes for other clients, but there's usually not a lot of money in podcast show notes.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, trust me, it can pay more than many other jobs, but by and large, writing podcast show notes is not a high-paying form of writing.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: And while I'm thankful to have the clients, obviously, and I'm thankful to have done lots of that over the years, that's not really a super high-paying form of writing, which is why I've transitioned the bulk of my writing business into ghostwriting.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I come from the ministry and education worlds, so I can pick on those worlds a little bit.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I feel I feel like I sort of have the right to do that because I come from those worlds a little bit.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to pick on them too bad, but I do want to say this.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: I love pastors and churches.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Trust me, I really, really I love pastors.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love the work that they do.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: I used to be a pastor.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I teach at a Christian college, so I'm around ministry and pastors and church things all the time, every single day.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: But keep this in mind, churches are considered a nonprofit type of organization.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: And nonprofits are typically called nonprofit because most of the time the people working in those types of organizations don't make a lot of money.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not being mean or judgmental, I'm just saying that as a basic fact of the matter, that most of the time when you work for a nonprofit type of organization, you're not there for the money, you're there because of the service that you're rendering and because of the mission of that organization.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact of the matter is that there's just not as much money flowing in the nonprofit world generally as there is in more profit-driven fields like technology, law, healthcare, and things like that.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a matter of right or wrong.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just stating a basic economic fact that if you want to make more money with writing, it's probably good not to focus on the nonprofit types of things like ministry and education and other types of nonprofit things.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason is because your writing skills are not going to be as valued financially in the ministry field as they are in other industries where there's more money flowing.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: And again, please do not misunderstand me.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not being mean, I'm not being anything.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just stating a basic fact of economics.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: That I just take it from me.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell you from my personal experience, there's if you want to be writing content for an industry, and if your goal is to make more money, then doing that for a profit-driven venture is probably going to net you more income than doing for a nonprofit venture.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully that makes sense.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get mad at me for saying that.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just kind of stating what my own experience is, and I think what the basic facts of the matter are as well.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Now, having said all that, sometimes you can find highly paid writing assignments or gigs within those ministry or education or nonprofit niches or industries.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: They are absolutely there.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I'm talking with literally 10 minutes ago, I just checked an email for this is a something in the ministry field, a potential writing gig that will be very well paid.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: So don't don't get me wrong, I'm not like ripping on ministry stuff or anything like that.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I am saying that by and large, I'm speaking in generalities, all things being equal, the nonprofit world is probably not going to be able to pay you as much as the industries where there's more money flowing, like tech, law, healthcare, real estate, and those kinds of things.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: So if your goal is to make money with your writing by writing for hire, generally it's good to find out where the money is flowing, what industries or niches are making more money, and then use your skills in those areas because your skills are going to command more dollars in those niches and in those industries.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now that I've beaten that horse completely to death, let's move on to point number two.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Number two is take action on what you know.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew is a real encourager, as you can tell, and he's encouraged me to stop navel gazing and just to take action.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: And if you get nothing else out of this episode, hey, I've said that twice, so I guess these are two important things.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if you get nothing else out of this episode, in addition to the last thing I mentioned, I hope that you take away this one point of taking action.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: So figure out what's going to help you today and just take action on that thing.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the truth of the matter is that you will figure things out as you go along.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: You will not figure out things by just sitting there and making detailed plans and analyzing everything to death.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Trust me on this, I'm speaking from personal experience.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: In my journey of starting a ghostwriting business, I have learned far more by just taking action, even though I wasn't totally sure how it would work out, or even sometimes what the heck I was doing.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: I learned far more doing that than by sitting around and studying everything to death and waiting to have this perfect plan.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: So what I did is I took a ghostwriting course by my friend Nick Pavlitis, and I just started putting it into practice without really knowing totally what I was doing.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: That goes against my nature as an analytical, very detailed type of a person.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I was desperate to make some progress, and taking action is what actually started to get me results.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if I can do it, you can do it too.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: I promise.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: If I can do it, you can do it too.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: Just take action on what you know, and you'll figure it out as you go along.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, takeaway number three, man, this is a long takeaway section, but I guess I I guess I'm excited about these things I'm talking about here, as you can tell.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, I've had probably too much caffeine today, and I'm sure that plays into it.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Number three, takeaway, perfection is just an excuse.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: And man, has this been a huge problem for me in my life?
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's way less of a problem than it used to be, I can tell you, but it's still a problem sometimes because I'm an Enneagram 5, I'm an introvert, and I'm an analytical type.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: So all those things working together mean that I tend to be a perfectionist sometimes.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I cannot begin to tell you how many writers I've talked to in the last couple of years who have partly written books or they've completed a whole book or multiple books, and they're just sitting there on their computer and they've never pulled the trigger and have done anything with them, and it just blows my mind.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, by the way, I've been guilty of that also.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if I'm pointing fingers at people, it's because I have several more pointing back at myself.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I encourage you to stop waiting around and just pull the trigger.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Don't wait to get picked by a publisher.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Just do self-publishing and get your book out there.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be way faster.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to have control over your intellectual property.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and by the way, if you want a different model, check out Morgan James Publishing.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's an awesome, amazing publisher.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, just Google Morgan James Publishing.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: They're a great publisher for entrepreneurs and others.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you get to keep your intellectual property, which is pretty darn cool.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: They're an awesome company.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, regardless of whether you're writing or you're doing a podcast, you're putting a blog together, you're doing whatever else, just do it.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: Just take action.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do it sloppy, do it messy, but just get it done because you can always go back and improve it later.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I need to take a breath.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: That was a lot.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, Andrew hit on a lot of points that um are really important in my life.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I think this probably goes to show if you want to coach, you should get in touch with Andrew because he will absolutely be able to help you.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, the way that you do that is uh you can visit Andrew's page at bookme dot name slash AndrewMundy, and that link will be in the show notes.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Bookme.name slash Andrew Mundy.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: You can also find Andrew on Facebook.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, thanks so much for listening to this episode.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: This has been kind of a long one, but but a good one, I think.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think this has been a great episode.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: As always, remember that you can find lots more resources for writers at KentSanders.net.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, remember that your writing has the power to change people's lives.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll see you in the next episode.