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The Real Risk is Staying Stuck with Anekha Sokhal · Built by Margin with Laurie Chen

• 0:04
  Welcome to Built by Margin, where risk meets numbers and better decisions get made. I'm Laurie Chen, CPA, fractional CFO, and author of Riskworthy. On this show, we explore how founders, CEOs, and high performers think strategically, take intelligent risks, and use numbers to build what matters. Because great outcomes don't happen So well, thank you so much for inviting me. I love that you're trying to speak to more female founders. I would also love to speak to more female founders. Yeah, so a little bit about me. I am the founder of Moshi.
• 0:48
  So we are building an AI super analyst for financial investors. And we're a seven month old company. We're a team of four growing to a bigger team in the next A couple of months as well and we are of course AI native and the reason I'm building it is because I'm building the super analyst that I wish I had because my background is I spent nearly a decade in. finance, I was a derivative trader at J.P. Morgan. But then I went deep into data science. So I got a Fulbright scholarship to come to Rice University. I was at Rice, went into machine learning, research, was very much involved in that and entrepreneurship. All I wanted to do was have my own company, which is a data company to do with what a problem that I was interested in solving. So when I was about to graduate, I interviewed for lots of hedge funds roles where I understood that a lot of people had the same problem that I realized that I had when I was trading. And I decided instead of to take a job to actually go and build it myself. So I raised venture capital fund money when I was in my master's and have since have been building the company. And we are, we released the product last in the past couple of weeks. And That's very exciting that you've raised venture capitals so far. And this is your first startup that you're working Yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so we that was super cool. And it's been an incredible experience, because I think taking venture capital money has a different type of progression for the company in a different type of, it opens so many more doors compared to just running a company and bootstrapping it, at least in my experience. And so it's been, it's been I've learned an incredible amount. I get to meet and talk to people who are solving problems that I So you mentioned that AI is a big part of your technical product. Can you tell us more about how you've seen Yeah, so I, my undergrad back when I was studying was in statistics, which is the basis of machine learning is the basis of what we call today AI.
• 3:31
  And so I very much see things from the lens of statistics and classical machine learning. And also as a trader, I was always evaluating risk and I was always building risk models and understanding how the probabilities were of different outcomes. Machine learning, what we call it mostly is we do both classical machine learning and statistics and generative AI.
• 4:00
  The way that we work as a company is we're AI native because we are built using both classical machine learning and generative AI, that's the product is built from that. But also as a team, we are using AI tools, to speed up those processes and those evaluation processes. But the way that we're building is very much from a business perspective, having, I have worked in the industry for a decade, our CTO was an IC6 at Meta. sold his company before. And our other engineer used to be at Microsoft and did security for them. Our other data scientist was at NASA, more than three out of four of the team have worked at NASA. And so everyone is not just technical, but also adopting AI tools. So we can just speed up development at a speed where, I mean, we've been told we're one of the fastest moving companies. that some of the partners have seen. So we adopt AI in both internally as a business, but also in how we That's amazing. Of all the AI tools that are currently out there, Clod, Manus, ChatGPT, Gemini, all of that, what do you recommend and what do you use in your daily Yeah, I I really like Claude Code.
• 5:24
  I think that's very good. Just from the mindset adoption that they've had around AI safety, that's the perspective that I've taken. In terms of tools that I think have been very helpful for me to just speed up processes that I would find quite annoying, I've used Gamma, which is an AI presentation tool. Yeah, I found that they were very helpful. Obviously just clawed normally. The tools that I have heard of and I've seen in action but I would not adopt without having the proper security or like running it on another machine are things like OpenClaw or giving your computer access to different things. I think you have to make sure that you have the right secure environment where you're running it on a separate machine to do things like that. I think there's loads of interesting tools out there, but it depends what you're solving for and what you're trying to optimize and how comfortable you are with giving it access to Yeah, absolutely. I like that you referenced AI safety because that's the biggest concern right now in the current trends. I also like that you mentioned Gamma because I also use Gamma for AI presentations and I love how it synthesizes information and helps you create a new presentation Yeah, definitely. I mean, for me, because I started my career when I was I first interviewed at J.P. Morgan when I was 19 and such a big part of their business was doing the right thing and doing the right thing. And so as a trader, it was it was ingrained in me to care about people's data and care about how we're acting, which is one thing that I've carried into Moshi. And so the only reason why we're able to, we're onboarding with some of the biggest customers in the world. The only reason as a seven month old company, we're able to have those conversations is because we have this deep understanding of what customer data is, and how we treat it. And so we've been able to adopt different AI frameworks and AI governance within our company. For example, we talk about sanitizing customer information, how we use that information, what kind of AI tools we have in place to make sure that things don't happen. So even the way that we build agents within our framework, and these are agents which sort of work for us.
• 7:53
  They're very controlled and they have like agents watching agents but it's something we talk about on a daily basis because it's so important to me that we use AI properly and we are conscious about people's data, and even when we are using other models, we're trying to evaluate what model do we use what for, and how appropriate are they, and what data are we sending, and is there a reason we're using them at this point in Tell us a little bit more about the entrepreneurship side of a startup, because you've raised venture capital, which is an amazing accomplishment. And it sounds like you have some great traction so far with your enterprise customers. Tell us more about why you chose to start your company in Texas, because you were recently at South by Southwest in Austin, where you were part of a women's founder panel. And the title of the panel was Founded in Texas. What led to that decision? What were kind of the things that helped you to make that decision to have your whole team choose Yeah, so I was at Rice University, and I had an incredible experience there. And then we, when I was at Rice, I met our venture capital fund partner. And we really saw eye to eye on the future. And they absolutely loved my what I was building and my vision. And it's a little bit funny, because I essentially raised venture capital funding without a pitch deck. So I, we didn't even, I didn't even sort of formally raise it right I raised it and it's you know one of the best decisions I ever made because of it's taught me how to run a company right and like you're learning from I think the benefit of raising venture capital money is If the people you're working with care about how a company is run and are teaching you how to run a company, that's the training that I got. I get to work directly with the partners of the VC fund who have seen companies ever from like precede early stage to IPO. And so you have this network of people who just want to teach you and want to help you. And I think finding the right person is, that's really important. And so. In terms of like, why I decided to stay in Houston, I was at Rice, and then the VC fund was here.
• 10:28
  And I also used to trade energy markets. And so a lot of the first people who we started to speak to were based in Houston, it's the energy capital of the world. But then as we started to get more traction and talk to more people, obviously I was in London before some of the people we're speaking to are in New York, Chicago, San Francisco, but we're able to still have conversations with everyone. I end up traveling quite a bit, but it hasn't restricted us in any way because at least for us, like I can go to clients' offices who are in Houston But at the same time, we still have like one of our clients is in London. One of the people we're speaking to is in New York, another one is in Chicago. So we're still having that outreach and we got, we have like a platform like South by Southwest or I've been doing a few other panels. And so we get attention from sort of all over the country and it's really helped us to work with the That's really exciting, and I'm really glad that you are so rooted in the Houston and the Rice community. I'm from Houston, so I'm very familiar with the city and it being the energy capital. So that's exciting that you're really anchoring the energy capital of the world there. Tell us more about how you view risk. I'm currently writing a book about risk taking and decision making, and a lot of it's based on my own experience building my own company, working with startups.
• 12:09
  I'm a fractional CFO and CPA, so I've worked with a lot of startups currently and also in the past. And you have a lot of experience in risk at J.P. Morgan, and also just starting your own startup is a very risky venture. Tell us more about how you think about it, how you view uncertainty. Do you ever utilize AI to help you de-risk anything? Just tell us a little bit more about Yeah, it's interesting you asked me that because I was helping to mentor a student from Japan actually a couple of weeks ago. And she asked me sort of a similar question, which is, oh, how did you take such a big risk starting a company? And it was funny because I think she said to me, oh, your answer really surprised me. And it's because I view risk a bit differently. For me, a risk is staying in something that you're frustrated in and you're unhappy in.
• 13:04
  That's the risk. It's waking up one day and saying, oh, I lived a mediocre life that I didn't want. So I was very clear from a very young age that I wanted an exciting life. And for me, the risk is not taking that. And so the reason I started in trading at J.P. Morgan is because I wanted something exciting, something that challenged me. something that I was working under high pressure, stress environments, and I just knew myself, and I knew that that's the kind of environment that I would do well in. And I also didn't want to work late hours, and so I would start work at 7.30, I would finish work at like 7.00, 8.00, and that was good for me. And whilst I was there, I understood essentially like what winning means, probabilities of how you think of things, and I also saw you know, very successful people. And I saw people how they evolved, as they made more money, and what and how they viewed risk. And I realized that some people, for them, risk is leaving a lot of leaving a well paying job with a lot of shares. But I also saw that some of these people were just very unhappy. And I come from a business family, like my parents are entrepreneurs, my brother's an entrepreneur. And they always talked about life from how much they're enjoying it. Like they never complained about being tired.
• 14:25
  My dad has never complained about work. And so for me, the risk is ending up as someone who complained about going to work. And I thought, For me, that's the risk. And so starting a company, I feel like it was the most right thing I could ever do. I feel like I'm doing something that's so aligned with me. I really did listen to my intuition about coming to the US, about everything I did. for me, the risk is, you know, ended up in somewhere where I just wish I was doing something else. So that's kind of how I evaluate things both from what I want as a person and who I am. And also, like, how much money do you need to be to not think about money? right? And that number is different for everyone. Is that number 100k, 200k, a million, 10 million, you have to know that. Because like, there's no point starting a company if you're going to be not able to sleep every single day, because you're not making that amount of money. And if that amount of money is a certain amount, then maybe only a job can give that to you. Right?
• 15:30
  Because a startup may take you a couple of years to do that. So That's brilliant. Yeah, that really is in alignment with what I'm putting out with Riskworthy is really about, you know, there's there is quantitative ROI. You've got to consider that. You've got to consider the amount of money you're making, but it's all subjective, right? What's more important is qualitative ROI, which sounds like something that you're pursuing, something that is in alignment with your inner knowing, your intuition and what you want to do. And I like how you framed how you look at risk that way. So perfect answer. I like that. Tell us more about team building because you said you have a team of four and you're, are you the CEO and technical founder on the team? How did you, how did you assemble the rest of your team and Yeah, I, I mean, shout out to my team, I have the most incredible team, they are so smart. And so they're lovely people to work with. That's the first thing. I enjoy talking to them, I learn from them. And the way that I found each member of my team is I spent time with them. And I interviewed. So the first time I put a job out, I got 3000 applications for the job in space of two weeks and I closed the job and I went through every single resume and I spent time with each person and I 100% made mistakes. hired the wrong or like I have worked with people who were definitely the wrong people and I had like gut feelings I would go home I'd be upset and then I realized like my energy was draining and then as soon as I you know let go of these people I felt so much better and one thing I realized is kind of along the journey is you have to find someone who wants to work at a startup find someone who wants that thrill, who's like, you know, I've done the corporate thing, but now I just want to work as a startup. And the second thing is you're always selling, right?
• 17:41
  You're selling to a VC, you're selling to your customer, but you're also selling to your team, because they're buying in on this vision. And they're buying in on like what the company is going to be, not what it is, right? These people who are looking for a job online, they don't know we're a startup. But if they can connect with you on a level where they share that vision, then they also will believe in it and they'll also want to join the company because they're so excited. And so when I was hiring I was looking for the people who Like, don't want to leave the interview because they have so many questions. And that's who we've ended up hiring is people who, I mean, I don't ask them to work weekends, but they work weekends because they're so excited to push their code, or they're so excited about features. And they constantly say to me, like, you know, I speak to the team that we're all in person, except for one person. And so they just say to me, I'm so excited by what we're working on.
• 18:37
  And they get so many people reach out to them to ask if Moshi's hiring. And, you know, we're always interested to speak to good people, but I think you have to go with someone who you're both excited about the same thing. Right. And I think for a startup as well, you know, obviously I understand that people are going to want to be paid a lot, but they have to understand that you if you want to get paid an incredible salary then that's definitely something you can do in a corporate job right like big companies will pay you for that but you're not gonna have the same type of ownership. You're not gonna move at the same speed. You're not gonna have the same type of team flexibility. And that's what you give up in salary is what you get here, right? And so some people I've spoken to who I've worked with have said, you know, yes, this isn't, I'm not motivated by the salary because I come to work and I love it. Like that's who you need to find, the Absolutely. It's not for everyone. Like you said, it's it's you have to you have to love working for a startup. Not everyone is risk tolerant. There's there's definitely different levels of risk that people are willing to tolerate. And not everyone can work at a startup and feel a sense of ownership and lose their stock in their corporate job or, you know, let go of their stock options, ESOP or whatever. So, yeah, you do have to find the right person to to join you. But it sounds like you have a great team because they're the people that you have joining you are already, you know, burning the midnight oil and, you know, working overtime for probably less than market pay, or maybe it's market pay or, but you know, it's not the same as Yeah, and exactly. And I think that's one of the benefits with running a venture capital backed startup is you can offer a lot of things that a standard startup won't, right? Like we offer the same benefits as a big corporate, because we just have access to those kinds of things. We have access to this network of people who the team can learn from, or, you know, when I'm speaking to enterprise customers, I'm speaking straight away to the executive level. And so having, you know, being in a venture backed startup, you're able to see that you're having these kind of connections, we, we have a nice office, these kind of things. And so I would say that there's definitely benefits as well from that side of things, because you're not kind of like, scrappy startup running, running out of your parents garage, it's like a different sort of attraction that people like.
• 21:15
  And that is one thing that when I would speak to the people I was hiring, they were like, Yes, we want to work for a venture backed startup, because it's just a different type of speed. And you you're Right. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, thank you for sharing that. Lastly, I would want to ask you, where do you see Moshi going in the next one to three years? What are your immediate growth plans? Where would you like to take it? Are you going to be raising additional venture capital?
• 21:54
  Are you going to be growing your team? What are your Yeah, so sort of, you know, yes to everything in terms of we are always growing the team and hiring, we're going to be actively hiring a couple of positions, which will be putting a job out for in terms of raising money. We're always interested to have conversations to see who the right people to partner with is. Because we've got great partners, but you know, it's always good to keep having the conversation. So we welcome them. And then in terms of where we see Moshi going, it's just, we're so passionate about the problem we're solving, because we're using AI in ways that the feedback we've got, we've spoken to over 100 people is no one's ever seen anything like this.
• 22:41
  And the reason why is because there's no team like this, right? Like very few traders have traded for 10 years, and then gone to become a data scientist, and then going to build a company, and then also teamed up with a team like this more than half the teams worked at NASA. And so we're so excited about what we're building and sharing it with everyone, because I think very few people who can see it from the lens we see it and have got the kind of feedback that we've got. So we just want to go onwards and upwards and bring innovation to the finance industry, which has not seen innovation in a Well, I just followed Moshi on LinkedIn. So I'm very excited to keep updated on your company's progress because it sounds like it's going to have a really great growth trajectory. So, yeah, super excited and, you know, really happy that you're part of this conversation. I love getting feedback. female founders perspectives, especially in the AI and tech space, right? And you have a lot of experience as a machine learning engineer, as a trader at JP Morgan, like you bring tons of experience into this world. And so, yeah, the startup world needs more female-led founders. So this is awesome. How can people find you? And we're definitely going to, you know, link up all of your social and the websites, anything that people can learn more about Moshi and Yeah, so we're on LinkedIn, both Moshi and myself. And we have a website where people can contact us directly with an email. And that's the best way to find us. And we're always open to speaking to people and hearing what they think and partnering with OK, awesome. Well, thank you. Thank you for joining. And I hope you have a great day.
• 24:35
  Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to Built By Margin. If this episode gave you a new way to think about risk, numbers, or the decisions in front of you, share it with someone else building something meaningful. And if you want more conversations like this, follow the show for insights on strategy, decision-making, and intelligent risk. Until next time, remember, take the risk, know your numbers,