Latest / Edan Haddock - Total Talent / I Don’t Want a Promotion: Have We Completely Misunderstood Ambition?

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I Don’t Want a Promotion: Have We Completely Misunderstood Ambition? · Edan Haddock - Total Talent

• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Eden Haddock Total Talent.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: I am your host, Eden Haddock, Head of Talent and People Experience at Movember.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: No guests, no sponsors, just one practitioner, still on the tools, talking about talent, people, work, and where I think all of this is heading.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: And today I want to start with a sentence that I think would make quite a few managers uncomfortable.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want a promotion.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's the sentence.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want your job.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to manage a bigger team.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't necessarily want a more impressive title.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have a five-year plan that ends with me sitting three boxes higher on your organizational chart.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually really happy doing what I'm doing.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now I ask, does that make me unambitious?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Really, we've created a very narrow definition of ambition.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think talent has helped create it.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: We've built career frameworks around it.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: We've built succession plans around it.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: We've built performance conversations around it.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: We've built REM structures around it.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we've definitely built interview questions around it.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: For example, where do you see yourself in five years?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: What are your career aspirations?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: What's the next step for you?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: What position would you ultimately like to move into?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: We keep asking people where they're going.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe we're not spending enough time asking them what they actually want from work.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And those are two very different questions.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: As we move further into Workforce 5.0, I do think we're going to have to get much more comfortable with the idea that a successful career doesn't necessarily move upwards.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it moves sidewards.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it gets deeper.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it gets broader.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it pauses.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it accelerates.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes somebody just wants to come into your organization, do something bloody brilliant for eighteen months, make an impact, learn something, contribute to something they believe in, and then leave.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe that's not failure.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's exactly what a successful employment relationship looks like.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: So today I want to talk about ambition, what it means, what we've got wrong, why our obsession with career progression might actually be pushing great people away.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And why I think talent professionals need to completely rethink what we mean when we talk about a career.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll start with the career ladder.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: For decades we've had this incredibly simple metaphor for careers.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: The ladder.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: You start down here, and success means getting up there.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Think about it.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Graduate, coordinator, advisor, manager, senior manager, head of, director, executive.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Up, up, up.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And with every step, supposedly, comes more responsibility, more money, more influence, and more success.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: What happens when somebody doesn't want to climb?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think organizations look at those people and quietly wonder whether something is wrong.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Are they engaged?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Are they motivated?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do they lack confidence?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Are they lacking ambition?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Do we need to create a development plan?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's really fascinating.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because the employee might actually be saying, nah, I'm good.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love what I do.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I want to get better at this.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: I want to become exceptional at this.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: I want to work on interesting things.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I want to work with people I respect.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: I want enough money to live the life I want.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I certainly don't want to manage 17 people and spend my Tuesday approving leave requests.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that isn't a lack of ambition.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's clarity.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we have confused ambition with hierarchy.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Those are not the same thing.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So let's think about ambition differently.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: There is absolutely vertical ambition.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Some people genuinely want to climb.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: They want leadership, they want broader accountability.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: They want the executive role.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: We need those people.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: But there's also what I'd call mastery ambition.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: The person who wants to become extraordinarily good at something.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: They don't necessarily want to manage the people doing the work.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: They want to be the person everybody calls when the work gets difficult.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's ambition.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Then there's learning ambition.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody who is driven by new experiences.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: They want to learn a new discipline.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Work in another market.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: Use new technology.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Solve something they haven't solved before.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: They might move sideways five times during their career.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And on an org chart, it might look like they've gone nowhere.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: But in reality, their capability might have exploded.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that's ambition.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Then there's impact ambition.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: This one is particularly interesting to me, particularly in the field I work.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Some people they don't care enormously about the title.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: They care about the work that they do, what their work actually does.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: They want to point at something and say, I helped build that.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: I changed that.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: I made that better.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: I helped those people.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's ambition.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's something organizations are sometimes even more uncomfortable talking about.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Life ambition.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe someone's greatest ambition isn't work.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine that.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want to be an incredible parent.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want to travel.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want to write music.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want to coach their kids' footy team.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want to renovate a house.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want to run a marathon.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe work is important, but it isn't the main character in their life.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And they just want a career that enables the life they're trying to build.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't make them disengaged.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make them lazy.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it certainly doesn't mean they aren't talented.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: It means that they've decided what success looks like for them.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: And our job isn't to convince them they're wrong.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Our job is to understand it.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then this changes recruitment.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Let's bring this back to talent acquisition.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think this changes some of the conversations we should be having with candidates.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine asking, what do you want this job to give you?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very different question to where do you want this job to take you?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: One assumes the job is a stepping stone.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: The other asks what someone actually values.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the answer is I want to learn.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's I want stability.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I want to work somewhere whose purpose I believe in.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I've spent ten years climbing the corporate ladder and I'm exhausted.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do great work without managing anyone.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Also great.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe they say, I think this role looks incredible.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I probably only see myself doing it for two years.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're getting interesting.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because what happens inside the recruiter's head when a candidate says that?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, probably a little alarm goes off.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Flight risk.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: We start thinking about retention, hiring costs, time to productivity, whether we're going to have to recruit the role again.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: And all of those considerations are legitimate.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I think we've developed an unhealthy assumption that long tenure automatically equals successful hiring.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: At Movember, our employer brand is beautifully simple.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do good, work for Movember.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because it doesn't make an enormous promise about what your entire career is going to look like.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: It makes a promise about what you can do while you're here.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do good.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do good.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Come here.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Bring your capability.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Bring your experience.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Bring your ideas.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Bring your energy.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And use them for something that matters.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And importantly, we're comfortable with the fact that for some exceptional people, Movember might be a chapter in their career rather than the entire book.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Someone might come to us at a particular moment in their life and say, I want to spend the next year or two doing something meaningful.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Come and do good.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they've spent ten years in a massive corporate environment.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe they'll spend the next ten years somewhere completely different.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: But for this chapter, they want purpose.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: They want impact.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: They want to use their skills to contribute to men's health.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Why would I look at that and immediately think, but how can we keep them for seven years?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we don't.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the deal is you give us an exceptional two years.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: We give you an exceptional two years.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Together, we do something that matters.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then, when the time is right, you go and write your next chapter.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think organizations really need to become more comfortable with that.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm proud that we are.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Let's move to the retention obsession.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Retention is important, obviously.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: If half your organization is walking out the door every six months, you've probably got a problem.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: But we've taken the idea of retention and occasionally turned it into something slightly strange, I feel.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: We celebrate tenure as though duration itself is an achievement.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Five years, ten years, fifteen years, twenty years.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that's wonderful when somebody is engaged, contributing, developing, and genuinely wants to be there.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: But tenure without contribution isn't success.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: And short tenure with enormous contribution isn't failure.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Think about two employees.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Employee A stays for eight years.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're fine, solid, do the job.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing particularly wrong.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing particularly transformational.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: But employee B stays for two years.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And during those two years, they've built something extraordinary.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: They challenge thinking.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: They lift the capability of everybody around them.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: They deliver outcomes.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: They mentor people.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: They leave the organization fundamentally better than they found it.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Who is the better hire?
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think tenure answers that question.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Impact does.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And this is where I think our thinking around talent needs to mature.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of asking, how long can we retain this person?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe sometimes we should ask, what could this person accomplish while they're here?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's another reason I think this matters.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Careers aren't linear anymore.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: People leave, people come back.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: They move industries, they contract, they consult, they take career breaks, they start businesses, they come back into employment, they work overseas, they return.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So when someone leaves your organization, that doesn't necessarily mean your relationship with them is over.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: One of the most powerful things an organization can create is an alumni network of people who genuinely loved working there.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine somebody spends two brilliant years with you.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: They leave on great terms.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: They become an advocate for your organization.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: They recommend candidates.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: They tell people about the experience.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then three years later, maybe they come back.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Except now they have three additional years of capability and experience.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds pretty good to me.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you only create that relationship if you're mature enough to let people leave without treating departure as betrayal.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, what this means for career pathways, because it creates a bigger problem.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because if ambition isn't always upward, what happens to career pathways?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've spoken recently on this podcast about job architecture and the way work is changing.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is another part of that conversation.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we need fewer career ladders and more career landscapes.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what you can learn.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Here's what you can experience.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Here are the problems you could solve.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Here are the communities you could join.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Here are the capabilities you could build.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Here are the projects you could work on.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: Here are the people you could learn from.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, here are leadership opportunities if that's what you want.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: But leadership shouldn't be the prize at the end of every career pathway.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because one of the strangest things organizations do is take somebody who is exceptional at their craft and promote them until they stop doing it.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: An amazing recruiter, make them a recruitment manager.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: An amazing engineer, make them an engineering manager.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: An amazing salesperson, make them a sales manager.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And suddenly the thing that made them exceptional is barely part of their job.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then we wonder why they're miserable.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe becoming world class at your craft should be just as respected, just as rewarded, and just as celebrated as becoming the person who manages those people who are doing the craft.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, this creates a REM challenge too.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because if the only way someone can significantly increase their salary is by moving into management, we're financially forcing people onto the ladder.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's not career development.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's architecture telling people what ambition is supposed to look like.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: We need ways to recognize increased expertise, increased impact, scarce capability, broader contribution without automatically attaching people management.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because otherwise, we're saying you can become better at your job, but if you want more money, you're going to have to stop doing it.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that ridiculous when I say it out loud?
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: You can become better at your job, but if you want more money, you're going to have to stop doing it.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: We love identifying high potentials.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: But potential for what?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's usually the next level, and then the next one, and then the next one.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: But what if someone's potential isn't to become ahead of talent?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: What if their potential is to become one of the best talent intelligence specialists in the market?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: What if their potential is to become extraordinary at workforce analytics?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Or sourcing, or REM, or org design, or candidate experience?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: What if their value comes from depth rather than hierarchy?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Potential shouldn't automatically mean how high could this person?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Climb.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: It could mean how extraordinary could this person become?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a conversation I'd love managers to start having.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not where do you want to be in five years?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's instead, what does a successful next few years look like for you?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then shut up.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Listen.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Listen.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want your job.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Help them get there.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want to become exceptional at their current job.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Help them do it.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want exposure to another discipline.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Find it.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want flexibility because something outside work matters more right now.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Respect it.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they say, I don't know.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay too.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Careers don't need to be meticulously planned, believe me.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the best opportunities are the ones nobody predicted.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe goal isn't retention too.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's not our goal.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And this is probably the part of the episode I want talent leaders specifically to sit with.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe our goal shouldn't always be retention.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it should be relationship.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Create an organization people want to join.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Give them meaningful work while they're there.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Develop them, challenge them, pay them fairly.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Treat them like adults.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Let them contribute.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And when their chapter is finished, wish them well.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you do that properly, they don't really disappear.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: They become alumni.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Advocates, referrers, future employees, future partners, future customers.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: People who tell other talented people you should work there.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that is employer brand, not the careers website, not the glossy EVP video, and not the clever tagline.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's what people say about working for you after they no longer work for you.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do good.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: It brings me back to those two words.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do good.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's something incredibly freeing about an employer brand that recognizes work as a chapter.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Do good, work for November.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe someone comes and does good for ten years.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe five?
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe eighteen months.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Also amazing.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: The question isn't necessarily how long did we keep them?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: The question is what happened because they were here?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: What did they contribute?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: What did they learn?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: What did we learn from them?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: What changed?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Who benefited?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: What impact did they leave behind?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: If we can answer those questions positively, I'm pretty comfortable calling that a successful hire.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll leave you with this.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Next time somebody tells you, I don't want a promotion, don't immediately assume they lack ambition.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Ask them what ambition looks like to them.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because maybe they want mastery.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want impact.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want learning.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want freedom.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want purpose.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they want an incredible life outside of work.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe they just want to spend two years doing something that matters.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then go and do something else.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's totally fine.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Our job in talent isn't to tell people what a successful career looks like.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's to build organizations capable of recognizing that success looks different for everyone.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe ambition was never the problem.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe our definition of it was.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Eden Haddock.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: This has been Eden Haddock Total Talent.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: No guests, no sponsors, just one practitioner, still on the tools, trying to work out where talent goes next.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And if this episode resonated with you, please follow on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe send this episode to the person in your organization who keeps asking everyone where they want to be in five years.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'll catch you next time.