Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Where Do Friends Fit? | Ep. 232

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Where Do Friends Fit? | Ep. 232 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:00
  Cheryl A: true friendship isn't just found, but it has to be built.
• 0:06
  There's something wonderful about having a good friend, someone to laugh with, talk things through with, or just enjoy being around.
• 0:21
  We all need those connections, but somehow, in the middle of raising children and managing everyday life, making friends and keeping those friendships going can be harder than we expected.
• 0:39
  So how do we make room for something that matters so much to us?
• 0:52
  Cheryl: Welcome Joanne and Christie- Hello in here today.
• 0:56
  Joanne: Hello.
• 0:56
  Joanne: I'm glad to be back again.
• 0:57
  Cheryl: Isn't this fun?
• 0:58
  Cheryl: Um, okay, I've been thinking about something that is a, a true high value and delight for me, but I will say I think it's been hard in my adult life.
• 1:11
  Joanne: What is it?
• 1:13
  Cheryl: Friendship.
• 1:14
  Joanne: Oh.
• 1:14
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 1:15
  Joanne: Me too.
• 1:15
  Joanne: I can relate to that.
• 1:16
  Joanne: Yeah, me
• 1:16
  Cheryl: too.
• 1:16
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:17
  Cheryl: I, I thought it would be easier.
• 1:20
  Cheryl: Um, of course, when you're little, you, you know, it's so easy.
• 1:25
  Cheryl: You have a ball and there's some children out there, and you start playing, and then maybe,"So you wanna be best friends?" And friendship comes a little easier maybe because of the platform of youth.
• 1:36
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 1:37
  Cheryl: Right.
• 1:37
  Cheryl: I don't know.
• 1:38
  Cheryl: And I just thought it w- with maturity and age, that it would continue to be an easy platform.
• 1:44
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 1:45
  Cheryl: The US surgeon general a few years ago declared loneliness as an epidemic-
• 1:52
  Joanne: Mm
• 1:52
  Cheryl: with adults.
• 1:53
  Joanne: Yeah, I heard that.
• 1:53
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 1:54
  Cheryl: Here's the interesting thing.
• 1:56
  Cheryl: Someone who doesn't understand what it is to be a mom or to be in active parenting, they might think you're surrounded with people all the time.
• 2:06
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 2:06
  Cheryl: You have lots of talking.
• 2:08
  Cheryl: You have lots of interaction.
• 2:10
  Cheryl: You get to share what you think and all of this.
• 2:14
  Cheryl: How could you be lonely?
• 2:15
  Christie: Right.
• 2:15
  Christie: Yeah.
• 2:16
  Cheryl: And I'm gonna tell you, as women open up to me and as I remember, y'all, I think sometimes a mom may be one of the loneliest
• 2:25
  Cheryl A: oh, seasons we have in life.
• 2:27
  Joanne: Oh, I agree.
• 2:27
  Joanne: Mm.
• 2:27
  Joanne: Yeah, 100%.
• 2:30
  Joanne: Um, right before I stayed home, uh, with my first child, I was working.
• 2:35
  Joanne: We were new to the area, to the city- Mm-hmm and so I honestly didn't even think about friendships.
• 2:41
  Joanne: I just kind of- Mm assumed that they would always be there.
• 2:44
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 2:44
  Joanne: 'Cause, you know, after school, after college, I got right into my career and, um, I had people around me.
• 2:50
  Joanne: It was my coworkers- Yeah and I was married.
• 2:52
  Joanne: And so I didn't notice that I actually didn't have very many close friends anymore until I started staying home, when I had my first child.
• 3:02
  Joanne: And to just say that that loneliness smacked me like a Mack truck- Yeah was like, I...
• 3:09
  Joanne: It really threw me for a loop.
• 3:11
  Joanne: And so yeah, I can totally relate to everything you're saying here.
• 3:14
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:15
  Christie: Even if you have a lot of friends before becoming a parent, it's kind of all dependent on if those friends are parents and what they- True you know, because it does change.
• 3:26
  Christie: Not that you have to give up your friends, but, um, your lifestyle changes overnight when- Mm.
• 3:32
  Christie: Yes
• 3:32
  Joanne: you,
• 3:33
  Christie: you know, find out you're expecting your first child.
• 3:35
  Christie: And, um, priorities shift and time available shifts and it, it really just does affect the-
• 3:42
  Cheryl: A lot
• 3:43
  Christie: margin you have.
• 3:44
  Cheryl: Yes, and I can remember It was different for Bill.
• 3:50
  Cheryl: But as the mom, drowning in children and the responsibility and all of the things, it was a different role- Mm-hmm from, from Bill's, being the a dad, he was a good dad, but it didn't interfere like what you're talking about- Mm-hmm.
• 4:05
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 4:05
  Cheryl: with his lifestyle the way it did mine.
• 4:08
  Cheryl: Um, and so I had that same struggle, too.
• 4:12
  Cheryl: He would say,"Honey, why does it have to be someone, you know, in your same life," stage.
• 4:17
  Cheryl: Season.
• 4:18
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:18
  Cheryl: Uh-huh.
• 4:18
  Cheryl: Yeah, season.
• 4:19
  Cheryl: Well, because someone who has a college student, and me with three little ones, everything is so different.
• 4:28
  Christie: Yeah.
• 4:28
  Cheryl: Right.
• 4:28
  Cheryl: And what I wanted to talk about, and, there's a place for having
• 4:32
  Cheryl A: variety but we're just talking about- Mm-hmm Friendship.
• 4:35
  Christie: Right.
• 4:36
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 4:36
  Cheryl: You know, I was just wondering, like just then I was thinking, okay, we know the digital age and all the issues it's brought in.
• 4:44
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 4:44
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 4:45
  Cheryl: So as digital communications have skyrocketed, intimacy and real friendship has tanked.
• 4:51
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 4:52
  Christie: Oh, yeah.
• 4:53
  Cheryl: But what else makes friendship hard as an adult?
• 4:59
  Cheryl: Particularly, let's focus on being a mom.
• 5:02
  Christie: I mean, being a friend requires vulnerability
• 5:06
  Cheryl: That's true
• 5:06
  Christie: and there's always risk with vulnerability.
• 5:08
  Christie: That's
• 5:08
  Cheryl: true.
• 5:09
  Cheryl: That's good.
• 5:10
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 5:10
  Cheryl: Why?
• 5:11
  Cheryl: Why is vulnerability a n- necessary component to friendship?
• 5:15
  Christie: Well, you have to let someone into your world a little bit.
• 5:20
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:20
  Christie: Um- Mm-hmm you have to enter into their world and be able to be gracious with what they share and trust- Wow you with.
• 5:28
  Christie: It's reciprocal in that way, and, and maybe There might not be a time in your life that feels, um, riskier than when you're a new parent- True.
• 5:38
  Christie: True because you're kind of feeling this thing out.
• 5:41
  Christie: You're wading- Mm-hmm into deeper waters that, I mean, I always felt like there was a spotlight on me, you know, when I was, uh, parenting in front of- Mm-hmm other people or, uh, always felt a little self-conscious about my choices, even y- well-researched ones.
• 5:55
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:55
  Christie: They would feel a little, you know, like,"Uh, I think I'm doing the right thing."
• 6:00
  Cheryl: Uh, I, I- True agree with you.
• 6:02
  Cheryl: I th- but I would say with this a caveat that you're always in a new season of parenting-
• 6:10
  Christie: True.
• 6:10
  Cheryl: Yeah because everything keeps changing, and I think
• 6:13
  Cheryl A: finding friends Was a little easier when they were all little,'cause you could have play dates.
• 6:20
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 6:21
  Cheryl: You could have kind of, superficial, times with people and it was a little easier to do that kind of connecting.
• 6:29
  Cheryl: Um, whereas you're saying you felt like under a microscope, well, it was new for me to have a preteen and then a teen and then a young adult- Mm-hmm and then a released adult, and that vulnerability- Mm-hmm of letting someone see all the yuck and- Right how I'm stumbling and I don't know what to do,.
• 6:47
  Christie: Right.
• 6:48
  Christie: Well, maybe this is making me think maybe we need to back up to just even- Maybe not have a deep philosophical definition of friendship, but at least acknowledge that there are different degrees of friendship.
• 7:00
  Christie: Yeah.
• 7:00
  Christie: Yeah.
• 7:01
  Christie: Like, you're talking about playdate friends, those are very different than, you know, attend a funeral friend or, you know- Right like the deeper parts of my life is in crisis friend or those- Yes kinds of things.
• 7:14
  Christie: Um, and so maybe that's assessing what friendship is actually what you're looking for in a friend.
• 7:21
  Cheryl: And I didn't understand it.
• 7:22
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 7:22
  Cheryl: I didn't have all the great teaching and all the wisdom you all have.
• 7:26
  Cheryl: I just grew up as a golden retriever puppy thinking everybody-
• 7:31
  Cheryl A: wants to be your friend.
• 7:33
  Joanne: Right.
• 7:33
  Cheryl: And that everybody is willing to share their life and be open.
• 7:37
  Cheryl: Um, and I found out that isn't so.
• 7:40
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 7:41
  Cheryl: What you're saying, uh, I remember when someone introduced concentric circles of friendships, like a bullseye.
• 7:49
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 7:49
  Cheryl: The tiny center, and then it gets bigger and bigger as it goes out, and then what you're talking about, each of those different circles-
• 7:57
  Joanne: Mm-hmm
• 7:57
  Cheryl: invites a different kind of relationship, a different level of vulnerability.
• 8:02
  Cheryl: You know, like there's a level of TMI on the outside, you know, you get to that- Right dead center, there's hardly TMI.
• 8:09
  Joanne: Right.
• 8:10
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 8:10
  Cheryl: You can share anything.
• 8:10
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 8:11
  Cheryl: And just that helped me Not to put people in a box, but to be more appropriate knowing what to expect and what to give.
• 8:20
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 8:20
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 8:21
  Cheryl: What else?
• 8:22
  Cheryl: What are some other qualities that healthy friendships should have?
• 8:26
  Joanne: Well, you know, um, kind of like talking about, about the circles of friendship.
• 8:31
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 8:31
  Joanne: You know, just when I started understanding the nuances, you know, to the different relationships, um, it...
• 8:38
  Joanne: That came about when I finally, like, let go of some preconceived ideas that I had, um- Like
• 8:44
  Cheryl: what?
• 8:44
  Joanne: about friendship.
• 8:45
  Joanne: So without even realizing it, like when I mentioned I was really lonely and looking for friends, um, Looking back, I can see there were a lot of opportunities for me to make friends that I was rejecting because- Wow um, the person who was extending an invitation to me or whatever didn't look like and I don't even know where I got this idea- Yeah someone I had imagined that I would be friends with.
• 9:09
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 9:09
  Joanne: Right?
• 9:10
  Joanne: And so that is a regret, and I see, oh, wow, that person kept inviting me to dinner or whatever.
• 9:17
  Joanne: Um, and so as an introvert, my natural inclination would be to just say no if I didn't feel like it in that moment.
• 9:24
  Joanne: Wow.
• 9:24
  Joanne: And so it wasn't until I learned to start saying yes when maybe I didn't feel like it, but I would be so glad that I did,'cause then that's how you start forming relationships.
• 9:33
  Joanne: And when I started opening myself up to, uh, the possibility of a different kind of friendship I didn't imagine and a different kind of person and with different life experiences or whatever- Mm then I started forming the relationships I so desperately needed.
• 9:47
  Christie: Wow.
• 9:48
  Cheryl: That is great.
• 9:48
  Christie: Yeah.
• 9:49
  Christie: I really love that because, you know, when we're young, friendship, you have a very closed-minded- That's true idea of who you want to be friends with.
• 9:58
  Christie: That's right.
• 9:58
  Christie: They need to dress like you, and like the same music as you.
• 10:01
  Christie: And as adults, that, I think, it should shift some and, and- Mm-hmm say, you know, what value could this person bring to my life?
• 10:10
  Christie: Not that we're carbon copies and we say all the same sayings and watch all the same shows and wear the matching shoes every day, but instead- Yeah like, seeing the value in that human- Mm-hmm that they can bring into your world, and ways that they can influence you.
• 10:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:25
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:25
  Cheryl: I agree with both of this, and, you know, we were talking about concentric circles of friendship.
• 10:31
  Cheryl: What we're saying is boxes.
• 10:33
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 10:33
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 10:33
  Cheryl: We had concentric boxes- Yeah, yeah and we put people,"Oh, no, they wouldn't wanna be friends with me because," or limiting.
• 10:41
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 10:41
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:41
  Cheryl: Like,"Oh, they're different than I am.
• 10:43
  Cheryl: They're very artsy, creative, whatever, and I'm more practical." Mm-hmm.
• 10:49
  Cheryl: "Oh, we wouldn't enjoy each other," and I'm like- Yeah"That cuts off this richness that other people could bring," and they might end up being on that inner circle.
• 11:00
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 11:00
  Cheryl: But just having a beautiful friendship.
• 11:05
  Cheryl: For me, one of the things would be that, a quality I would say is life-giving.
• 11:11
  Joanne: Yeah, that's good.
• 11:12
  Cheryl: You know?
• 11:12
  Joanne: Uh-huh.
• 11:12
  Joanne: I
• 11:13
  Cheryl: like that word.
• 11:13
  Cheryl: That they're breathing life into me.
• 11:15
  Cheryl: That that's the exchange.
• 11:16
  Cheryl: And I met with someone I've known for quite a while, and we just got into a deeper conversation, and I found out she's a sunset junkie, like I am.
• 11:28
  Joanne: Aw.
• 11:28
  Joanne: I'm like,
• 11:28
  Cheryl: I didn't know this." So we found something that we really enjoyed.
• 11:32
  Cheryl: And then, um, y'all know I've fallen in love with watercolor, and somebody said,"Could I come over?
• 11:40
  Cheryl: Could we paint together?" And so I opened my life up to them, and then they just brought different degrees of joy into me, richness into me, or I'm thinking of another person A really good thinker, and we don't always track the same direction.
• 12:02
  Cheryl: Remember that box- Mm-hmm we put everybody in?
• 12:04
  Cheryl: We don't necessarily hold all the deepest...
• 12:07
  Cheryl: Uh, our values of people are good, but, uh, on those more superficial levels- Yeah our values are different, uh, politically or faith-wise, but we have great conversations.
• 12:19
  Christie: Mm.
• 12:19
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:19
  Cheryl: And because we feel safe with each other, I would say that's- Yeah another quality, I feel safe with this person, we can explore where we are different and walk away not having to agree-
• 12:32
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 12:32
  Cheryl: on what we talked about-
• 12:33
  Christie: Right
• 12:34
  Cheryl: but agree that we can enjoy one another and talk about it.
• 12:37
  Christie: Yeah.
• 12:38
  Christie: I love that.
• 12:39
  Christie: I think, um, just broadening your mind a little bit- Mm-hmm.
• 12:43
  Christie: Yeah in a friendship is what we're talking about.
• 12:45
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:45
  Joanne: Well, and, you know, just thinking of the qualities to look for in a friendship, and when one that I came to really, really value more than anything, more than if we have much in common at all even, is just, is this a person who is who they are?
• 13:00
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 13:00
  Joanne: Like, you know, the authenticity and like- Oh,
• 13:02
  Christie: yeah
• 13:02
  Joanne: knowing you two as long as I have, I know that what you see is what you get, Mm-hmm.
• 13:07
  Joanne: You are who you are, and there's nothing phony or false.
• 13:10
  Joanne: And I always say, you know, I have a sister who's a lot younger than me, and I say,"Find somebody who's authentic, and you hang- Yeah onto that person." Mm-hmm.
• 13:19
  Joanne: Um, what you see is what you get, you know?
• 13:20
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 13:21
  Cheryl: That is one of the highest qualities that I care about the two of you.
• 13:25
  Christie: Mm.
• 13:25
  Cheryl: And the thing when you're authentic, that means you get to see some of the yuck.
• 13:30
  Christie: Right.
• 13:30
  Christie: Yeah.
• 13:30
  Cheryl: And we're not cleaning it all up to bring it together.
• 13:34
  Cheryl: We're allowing one another to vomit- Right and show our yuck and go,"I failed again.
• 13:40
  Cheryl: I blew this." Now, you have to be closer on that concentric circle, but
• 13:47
  Cheryl A: how Valuable, when you can begin to share
• 13:49
  Cheryl: our yuck
• 13:50
  Cheryl A: I would say maybe you know, if someone's gonna move towards the center, that you can share more yuck-
• 13:56
  Joanne: Mm-hmm
• 13:57
  Cheryl: than you used to.
• 13:58
  Joanne: Right, and that does take time, unfortunately- It does you know,'cause you don't want to vomit over people you don't know very well.
• 14:05
  Joanne: Right.
• 14:06
  Joanne: That's actually kind of a red flag- Yeah behavior probably.
• 14:09
  Joanne: But, um, you know, and that's the hard part about when you start to be vulnerable with people, is there's always that risk of rejection.
• 14:16
  Joanne: It's true.
• 14:16
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 14:17
  Joanne: So you do have to have a lot of discernment and just some time, and it's hard when you have to move around a lot.
• 14:23
  Joanne: Like, Cheryl, you- Mm-hmm you've experienced that.
• 14:25
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 14:25
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 14:25
  Joanne: So.
• 14:26
  Christie: Yeah, I think, um, it- It does take a lot of time.
• 14:30
  Christie: I think that's probably what kept me from having friends um...
• 14:36
  Christie: I had some good friends in my life when my kids were young, um, but I also opted for convenience a lot where- Yeah you know, if we had our kids in the same activities or our paths crossed in a natural rhythm each week, those were the people I tended to talk with more or let into my life more.
• 14:56
  Christie: And I don't know that I always filtered through the things we're talking about that I valued in a friend.
• 15:02
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:02
  Christie: It was more just out of convenience because what you said, the time that's involved.
• 15:07
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 15:07
  Christie: Or, you know, my kids were friends with their kids, so it just was a natural fit.
• 15:11
  Christie: Right.
• 15:11
  Christie: We'll just chat while the kids play, and that wasn't always, um, the most quality choice of friendship.
• 15:17
  Cheryl: That's a certain level.
• 15:20
  Cheryl: We're talking to people that are in their active parenting years or in their releasing years for the most part, and time is a premium.
• 15:29
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 15:29
  Cheryl: Energy's a premium.
• 15:31
  Cheryl: Sometimes words are a premium.
• 15:32
  Cheryl: You mentioned you're an internal processor.
• 15:35
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 15:36
  Cheryl: They just don't have as many words.
• 15:37
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 15:38
  Cheryl: And, uh, it takes time-
• 15:41
  Joanne: Mm-hmm
• 15:42
  Cheryl: to develop this.
• 15:43
  Cheryl: What else?
• 15:44
  Cheryl: What would you say has helped you in the past, or what would help you now to develop more or deeper real friendships?
• 15:54
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:54
  Christie: Um, you know,, we've kind of mentioned more having friends when our kids are young, and, I made a realization.
• 16:01
  Christie: I don't know if you guys experienced this, but the loneliest time of parenting was when my kids were teens.
• 16:08
  Joanne: Oh, okay.
• 16:08
  Christie: And I started realizing, um, because we weren't sitting at soccer- Yeah pr- practices.
• 16:15
  Christie: Yeah.
• 16:15
  Christie: We weren't sitting in dance studios because the kids were gr- driving themselves now.
• 16:19
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 16:20
  Christie: And that's really when I screeched the brakes and realized,"I don't have a lot of my own friends." Oh,
• 16:25
  Joanne: yeah.
• 16:25
  Christie: Um, uh- Mm because I was spending, like I said, all that convenience of overlapping with other moms in, in waiting on our kids or, or play dates or whatever.
• 16:35
  Christie: And so once my kids were independent of me, I realized,"Oh, my kids have actually been filling a lot of that social interaction and then those convenient people." Did you guys have that experience at all or- does that resonate with you?
• 16:49
  Joanne: Um, not, not when they were teens.
• 16:51
  Joanne: Like I said, mine was more when they were little.
• 16:53
  Joanne: Uh-huh.
• 16:53
  Joanne: And it was like,"Oh, wow," you know?, I started recognizing the need to separate my friendships from my kids' friendships.
• 17:00
  Christie: Exactly.
• 17:01
  Joanne: When we hit a few bumpy patches and I, I- Okay I realized,"Oh, boy, if these-""These aren't
• 17:06
  Christie: my, my people."
• 17:06
  Joanne: If my kids' relationship goes south, I don't want my friendship to go south too.
• 17:10
  Joanne: That's good.
• 17:10
  Joanne: That's good.
• 17:11
  Joanne: So then before they got to the teen years, started to develop some friendships.
• 17:15
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 17:16
  Cheryl: Well, one thing- One or two people, that's a lot of weight for them to carry all of our emotional
• 17:24
  Cheryl A: friendship
• 17:25
  Cheryl: needs.
• 17:25
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 17:26
  Cheryl: And I have found I'm so much healthier when I have a broader spectrum of
• 17:31
  Cheryl A: friendship,
• 17:32
  Cheryl: and I have people in the
• 17:33
  Cheryl A: center circles.
• 17:34
  Cheryl A: you know, like, I could call the two of you after 10:00 at night if I needed something.
• 17:39
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 17:39
  Joanne: Absolutely.
• 17:39
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:39
  Cheryl: And y'all could..
• 17:40
  Cheryl: so, but when you have
• 17:41
  Cheryl A: a fuller Circle, I found out it spreads the weight everywhere.
• 17:47
  Cheryl A: It's, it's a richness.
• 17:48
  Cheryl A: It's life-giving.
• 17:49
  Cheryl A: But people don't have to shoulder the same- Mm-hmm burden, Yeah.
• 17:52
  Cheryl A: And when you have a tiny little pool...
• 17:55
  Cheryl A: And that's somewhere to start, so I'm not saying that's bad.
• 17:58
  Cheryl A: But realize expanding that friendship pool on the different levels removes some of the burden- Yeah.
• 18:06
  Cheryl A: Yeah people have to carry.
• 18:07
  Cheryl A: And then there's one group that I never realized I was removing that burden from, and I know it now, and it's from my children.
• 18:15
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 18:15
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 18:16
  Joanne: Yeah, that's
• 18:17
  Cheryl: really good.
• 18:17
  Cheryl: Particularly as a widowed parent, but also because I'm now of an age and I know my children are projecting taking care of me as I age, not just physically, but emotionally and mentally and all of that.
• 18:32
  Cheryl: And when you read studies- Mm-hmm it's the people who have friendships-
• 18:36
  Joanne: Mm.
• 18:36
  Joanne: Yeah
• 18:36
  Cheryl: that do better
• 18:37
  Cheryl A: all around.
• 18:38
  Cheryl A: Yeah.
• 18:39
  Cheryl A: And I have realized what a gift I'm giving my children that I have friends like you, that I have a spectrum of friendships from which I can pull, to which I can give.
• 18:51
  Cheryl A: Y'all bring colors to my life
• 18:54
  Christie: mm-hmm.
• 18:54
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 18:54
  Cheryl: Instead of telling my children,"Oh, by the way, you have to
• 18:57
  Cheryl A: be The entire Sherwin-Williams color palette to me-
• 19:01
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 19:02
  Cheryl: because I don't have anywhere else to get it." Yeah.
• 19:03
  Cheryl: Yeah,
• 19:03
  Joanne: yeah.
• 19:04
  Cheryl: And so it's a gift Yeah but I also had to wean myself off from the friendship I had with them
• 19:12
  Cheryl A: in their Childhood.
• 19:15
  Cheryl A: As I kind of released them, our friendship had to change.
• 19:19
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 19:19
  Cheryl A: Yeah.
• 19:19
  Cheryl A: I have to be willing for them to have other people in that intimate inner core that's not me.
• 19:26
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 19:26
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 19:26
  Joanne: Wow.
• 19:27
  Joanne: Well, and I think some of that is because you did such a good job of remembering who you were as a person.
• 19:33
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 19:33
  Joanne: You didn't have your identity just all wrapped up as a mom.
• 19:36
  Cheryl: Wait, wait.
• 19:37
  Cheryl: I had to learn that
• 19:38
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 19:38
  Joanne: Well- That was- Since I've known you So that's all I've seen, and I think that is something I think is important that I would speak into younger moms, especially when your kids are so, so dependent on you, and you don't have any bandwidth hardly for anything else.
• 19:55
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 19:55
  Joanne: Is as much as you possibly can, like, try to...
• 19:59
  Joanne: Just like we, you would wanna try to prioritize time with your husband or whatever, make sure you remember who you are as a person- Mm-hmm outside of your people that you birthed- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm because, or adopted or whatever.
• 20:12
  Joanne: It's so important because one day, like you mentioned, your kids are gonna go on, and you wanna be able to just release them and not feel like your whole world just left you- Yeah because you have remembered the things that you enjoy, like the, the- Yeah music you like to listen to, the hobbies that you have.
• 20:29
  Joanne: And then, you know, as they get older, you'll have a little more time to maybe make some friendships in those areas.
• 20:35
  Christie: Yeah.
• 20:35
  Christie: Yeah, I mean, I think that's what hit me like a ton of bricks in those teen years was- Mm-hmm realizing I hadn't done a good job of that, and I hadn't, um, had my own interests and my own hobbies and my own things that I did as a human- Mm-hmm rather than just these people's mom.
• 20:53
  Christie: And, and that did put a lot of pressure on, um, my kids because I thought,"Oh, we can just..." You know, thankfully we had a really good relationship, but they didn't need that, like you were saying, that pressure- No Cheryl, and it's making me laugh.
• 21:07
  Christie: I'm sitting here laughing when you're saying that your kids now have a joy that you have friends in your life.
• 21:12
  Christie: 'Cause I remember when my kids were young, it made the day so much easier if they'd invite a friend over.
• 21:17
  Christie: You know?
• 21:18
  Christie: Something, somebody to, like, play with- Yeah so I could get some things done.
• 21:21
  Christie: And I'm like,"Oh, I bet my kids are feeling that way." Oh.
• 21:23
  Christie: They're like,"Oh, good, Mom has some friends to keep her busy." The roles have reversed.
• 21:29
  Christie: That's really cute.
• 21:30
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 21:30
  Cheryl: Isn't that funny?
• 21:31
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:31
  Cheryl: The funnel has changed direction.
• 21:32
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 21:33
  Christie: Yes.
• 21:33
  Christie: Yeah.
• 21:33
  Cheryl: Um, but it really is they see the riches-
• 21:38
  Christie: Uh-huh
• 21:38
  Cheryl: that my broad community and my relationships and my intentionally doing this,'cause it's a lot easier to sit on the laurels of your friends and your family now than to go out and try and-
• 21:54
  Joanne: Right
• 21:54
  Cheryl: create more- Mm-hmm and reach out- Uh, I, I just had never thought of it- Yeah but I know they're...
• 22:01
  Cheryl: I mean, they're excited for me.
• 22:03
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:03
  Cheryl: But look at the burden I've taken off their shoulders.
• 22:06
  Christie: Right, and I hope anyone that is like I was and felt that time with friends would be selfish, that was always the- Oh, yeah the struggle I felt.
• 22:16
  Christie: Um, anyone that feels that way, I hope you're listening to this because what we're saying is that that's actually benefiting your kids.
• 22:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:24
  Christie: Because it's, it's polishing you in a way.
• 22:27
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:27
  Christie: Your friends influence you.
• 22:28
  Christie: You're a whole person that if you absorb things from the lives of good quality friends, you're benefiting..
• 22:36
  Christie: That's benefiting your children because you come into their lives as a more whole person.
• 22:42
  Christie: Absolutely.
• 22:42
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 22:42
  Christie: You show up as a, a version of you that's going to be a blessing to them in a way that, y- you know, you just heaping all this pressure to be their friend- Yes.
• 22:51
  Christie: Yeah isn't helpful.
• 22:53
  Cheryl: Absolutely.
• 22:54
  Cheryl: That's true.
• 22:54
  Cheryl: And it's making my children not dread getting older.
• 22:58
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 22:59
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 23:00
  Cheryl: There's enough that's hard about getting older.
• 23:01
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 23:02
  Cheryl: Our batteries wear out.
• 23:03
  Cheryl: Right.
• 23:03
  Cheryl: It's true.
• 23:04
  Cheryl: But they're saying,"Look at the Riches.
• 23:06
  Cheryl: Look, she's pursuing this.
• 23:08
  Cheryl: She's doing that.
• 23:09
  Cheryl: She has all this.""No, I'm sorry, I'm busy.
• 23:12
  Cheryl: I can't do that with you."
• 23:12
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:13
  Christie: Until they start calling you cute.
• 23:15
  Christie: Oh, like your kids ever call,"Oh, that's so cute." Yes.
• 23:17
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:17
  Christie: You and your
• 23:17
  Cheryl: friends are...
• 23:18
  Cheryl: Oh, yes.
• 23:18
  Cheryl: I have had the word cute said to me.
• 23:21
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 23:21
  Cheryl: But because I'm not wrapped up in my identity with that.
• 23:24
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 23:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:24
  Christie: I
• 23:25
  Cheryl: go,"Thank you." No, it's fine.
• 23:26
  Cheryl: So what I would say To bring to this is that
• 23:31
  Cheryl A: true friendship's isn't just Found, but it has to be built.
• 23:36
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 23:37
  Cheryl: You know?
• 23:37
  Cheryl: And it's incremental.
• 23:39
  Cheryl: But what I want to encourage everyone listening, and the three of us, let's keep pursuing it because it's healthy on every level.
• 23:49
  Cheryl: Plus, collectively, what we bring into friendship makes each of us better, it makes our culture better- Mm-hmm it makes our society better, it makes our family fuller and richer.
• 24:03
  Cheryl: Uh, I had someone in my home this morning, and because we have a wonderful friendship, she's walking through a really dark, unknown valley right now of some medical issues that are so scary.
• 24:16
  Cheryl: But because of our friendship, she is not walking that valley on her own.
• 24:22
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 24:22
  Christie: And
• 24:22
  Cheryl: she just called and said,"Do you happen...
• 24:24
  Cheryl: Can I drop by right now?" And she just popped into my house, and y'all, we just cried together.
• 24:31
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 24:31
  Cheryl: But look at what shared richness that we would have missed out on if we had just stayed,"Hi, how are you doing?""Fine.""Oh."
• 24:40
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 24:41
  Cheryl: Are your kids graduated?" We went to a deeper level, and let's see, whatever it is they say- If you wanna become a different person, it's the books you read and the people you hang with.
• 24:52
  Christie: Mm.
• 24:53
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 24:53
  Cheryl: Okay?
• 24:53
  Cheryl: Your friends.
• 24:54
  Cheryl: And I would say all the different people in my life, rather than putting them in boxes like we were talking about, the riches that they just bring on different levels, and listening to them and learning and l- like, you just got back from a vacation.
• 25:09
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 25:09
  Cheryl: My listening to your vacation stories and, uh, looking at your pictures brings something to my life that I didn't have before, besides jealousy.
• 25:20
  Cheryl: But I want to go there.
• 25:21
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 25:21
  Cheryl: And then I love having you talk about your granddaughter, and the things that are happening.
• 25:27
  Cheryl: It makes me so rich to have friends in my life.
• 25:31
  Cheryl: It's worth the effort.
• 25:33
  Joanne: It is.
• 25:34
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 25:35
  Joanne: Well, and practically speaking, to get there, it's gonna involve some courage.
• 25:39
  Joanne: Mm.
• 25:39
  Cheryl: It
• 25:39
  Joanne: sure is.
• 25:39
  Joanne: And you're most likely gonna have to initiate things.
• 25:42
  Joanne: Like, um, I was very thankful that one day, out of the blue when my kids were really little, I had been at some little, like, mom tea or something, you know.
• 25:51
  Joanne: Um, I don't even know how it came about, but, um, we exchanged emails.
• 25:56
  Joanne: Like dating, right?
• 25:57
  Joanne: It's like, I gave my number and my email out to a few people.
• 26:01
  Joanne: Didn't know if I'd hear from anybody, and I got an email out of the blue from someone to say,"Hey, do you wanna meet up for a date, like, a play date," you know?
• 26:09
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 26:09
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 26:09
  Joanne: And it, it really did feel like dating.
• 26:11
  Joanne: No, yeah, it really
• 26:12
  Christie: is similar.
• 26:12
  Christie: And
• 26:12
  Joanne: so we went, and then I remember getting home and talking to my husband, like,"I don't know.
• 26:16
  Joanne: I thought it went well.
• 26:17
  Joanne: I don't know if they're gonna ask me again," you know?
• 26:19
  Joanne: Uh-huh.
• 26:19
  Joanne: And so, um, and We ended up being good friends for- a season- Yeah you know, until they had to move.
• 26:24
  Joanne: Um, but you know, you do have to put yourself out there, and it may work out, and it may not.
• 26:30
  Christie: Right.
• 26:30
  Joanne: But don't be afraid to just initiate it and then- Good because if you don't put yourself out there, you're going to miss out.
• 26:37
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 26:38
  Joanne: Um, and so I, that's something I've had to really break through and get over.
• 26:42
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 26:42
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 26:43
  Cheryl: And initiate on the level you're comfortable with.
• 26:46
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 26:47
  Cheryl: You know?
• 26:47
  Cheryl: Have them to your house if you're comfortable with that, or meet in a third spot.
• 26:52
  Cheryl: You don't have to sign in blood that we're gonna be best friends.
• 26:56
  Joanne: Right.
• 26:56
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 26:57
  Cheryl: But let's initiate this and, you know, I love the hospitality coming to your house, but, eh, that might be a little close.
• 27:03
  Christie: Right.
• 27:04
  Cheryl: We can meet up for coffee now.
• 27:05
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 27:06
  Cheryl: And I mean, it's like you're saying, a little bit like dating.
• 27:09
  Cheryl: Okay, there's speed dating aspects and then we can take it to the next level.
• 27:15
  Cheryl: But I would love all of you listening to look for opportunities to begin to take small steps.
• 27:23
  Cheryl: Maybe the question would not be, where can I find my people?
• 27:26
  Cheryl: You know, where can I find a BFF?
• 27:29
  Cheryl: But, um- Who's somebody I could get to know a little better this month?
• 27:35
  Joanne: Mm.
• 27:35
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 27:36
  Joanne: That's great.
• 27:36
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 27:36
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 27:37
  Cheryl: I like that.
• 27:37
  Cheryl: And then just carve out time just to get to know them a little better, and then let's see it happen.
• 27:43
  Cheryl: And then just c- continue to take the time to invest.
• 27:47
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 27:47
  Cheryl: 'Cause it is an investment.
• 27:48
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 27:48
  Christie: Yeah.
• 27:49
  Cheryl: You invest, but there's a risk.
• 27:51
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 27:51
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 27:51
  Joanne: Right yeah.
• 27:52
  Joanne: So gosh, that makes me think of a friend of mine, and she just recently, uh, found herself in a very difficult situation where she was a part of a friend group, it's a neighborhood group, and, um, she realized, like, these women do not have the same values as her.
• 28:08
  Joanne: Oh.
• 28:08
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 28:08
  Joanne: And it's feeling a little uncomfortable because- Mm they're neighbors.
• 28:13
  Joanne: Um, and this group is very, very close.
• 28:16
  Joanne: Um, and so it's been kinda tricky for her, kinda navigating.
• 28:19
  Joanne: Wow.
• 28:20
  Christie: That's so hard maybe we need to talk about Yeah what do you do then?
• 28:23
  Christie: Yeah.
• 28:23
  Christie: 'Cause-'Cause you can get in too deep too fast, and, like, for her- Yeah if they're neighbors, you can't move.
• 28:28
  Christie: Yeah.
• 28:29
  Christie: Okay?
• 28:29
  Christie: Yeah.
• 28:29
  Christie: And you've gotta face the music.
• 28:30
  Cheryl: And some of these risk and hard things about friendships is why people don't do them.
• 28:35
  Christie: Yeah.
• 28:35
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 28:35
  Cheryl: It's so much safer- Right not to, but that's not a rich way to live life.
• 28:39
  Cheryl: So we're out of time today.
• 28:42
  Cheryl: What about if we come back again and we talk about the risk- Mm-hmm and what do you do when it is hard?
• 28:49
  Christie: Yeah.
• 28:49
  Cheryl: And how do you navigate that?
• 28:52
  Cheryl: And what are some good questions to bring wisdom to that conversation?
• 28:56
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 28:58
  Cheryl: What do you- That's a good idea.
• 28:59
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 28:59
  Cheryl: I think that's definitely important.
• 28:59
  Cheryl: Thank y'all.
• 28:59
  Cheryl: Hey, parents, remember, hang in there, keep loving, keep persevering, because it's worth it.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: If friendship has been harder than you expected, I hope you won't be discouraged.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: There are probably more women around you than you realize who would welcome a little more friendship in their lives too.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: And you don't have to add another responsibility to your already full life.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Just leave a little room for friendship to grow We'd love to hear your thoughts about this conversation.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: You can reach us at contact@theparentingpodcast.com.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: We're always glad to hear from you