Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Barclay Dodge & Heather Kunzer on Wild Ingredients & Kitchen Wisdom ep 152

Transcript

Barclay Dodge & Heather Kunzer on Wild Ingredients & Kitchen Wisdom ep 152 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello chefs. This is Chefs PSA.
0:01
I'm your host, Andre Natera. On today's episode, I have two
0:04
guests, Michelin star chef from Aspen, Co Bosque restaurant,
0:09
Barclay Dodge and my friend for cooks in season, Heather Kunzer.
0:13
Today we're going to talk about ingredients, foraging,
0:16
fermentation and what it was like to work at El Bui.
0:20
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1:14
So I mean that is. What is this?
1:18
Conserva. Did you make this?
1:20
I did. What's in it?
1:21
I brought it for you guys. It's the easiest thing that I
1:25
can make to come up with that incorporates as many mushrooms
1:30
as I have at the season at the moment.
1:33
And then I put fiddlehead burns in it, though this time I've
1:35
never done before. So yeah, I brought it as a gift
1:38
to you guys and I used a good olive oil.
1:41
You're going to have to take them both.
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I travel with no check in. Well, I thought about that and I
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was like, well, it'd be weird if I just brought chef one and not
1:49
you. And so I was like, I'm ringing
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two. You can figure it out.
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You might have. You can send me one later into.
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It tonight. What are the mushrooms in here?
1:56
So Porcini season just hit and so I was able, I mean, and I say
2:02
that is like 15 lbs came in. Yeah, right before I left.
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Like apparently now we've got multiple cases.
2:09
I see, I see you scored. Is that is that a trumpet
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mushroom in there that you scored a porcini?
2:14
The porcini? Wow.
2:16
From Oregon, so that and there's see.
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And I did the morels in there. Yeah.
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And I thought you guys would be impressed.
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I kind of cut them like they're like, you like them like that.
2:23
Yeah. That's fun, huh?
2:24
Yeah. I've learned my stuff just from
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you guys. Fun stuff.
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So, yeah. And then there's my talkies in
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there, oysters in there, and morels.
2:32
I did not know that porcinis were in Oregon.
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Yeah. How Long's the season?
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Best I think over like Colorado and New Mexico, but I think.
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Yours are better than. Mine, I think Oregon, the
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Cascade mountain range just produces.
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When's the season? There's a spring and then
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there's a fall. Last year we had not a spring
2:53
season at all. The year before that, the spring
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season was phenomenal. And then there's east, there's
3:00
the east side of the Cascades, and then there's the West side
3:03
of the Cascades. And so even Porcini's right now,
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they're mountains on like the eastern side.
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So once you hit like on the western side that the texture,
3:12
the look of them, all of it changes.
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So right now it's like. And what about the best
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Matsutakis? And sorry, and it'll only last
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for probably 4 weeks and then it's over.
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And the Matsutakis? Matsutakis, that starts Labor
3:27
Day. Yeah, that's my I'm fascinated.
3:31
I have two products I'm fascinated with the the history
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of the Matsutaki and the lifespan of a wild pink salmon.
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Yeah. Matsutakis, same way.
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They're found in the same areas as like the Porcini are, except
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for their underground. Yeah, it's like pull the brush
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around the needles over a little bit, little clumps you see like
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little mounds poking out so. Do you guys get most talky and.
3:53
We get a little bit. I've personally never found 1.
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I feel like I've maybe have seen them.
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Yeah, but it's a hard one for me to identify because we have a
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mushroom that looks a lot like it for us, our prima mushroom,
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the chanterelle, which I've heard, you know, you say how you
4:07
love the porcini from where you live.
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I think the chanterelle from the Rockies is the best chanterelle
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in the world because I get mushrooms from all over the
4:14
world. The porcini, I mean, is stellar,
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but is not the. I've had better.
4:19
Right. Yeah.
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And yeah, it's like what we pick is that's why I don't order
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mushrooms from you much in the summer.
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Yeah, I like that. Three years ago or three or four
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years ago, maybe it was 3, It was a banner season in Colorado,
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the Rockies, every. I mean, you just saw everybody's
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Instagram accounts were just packed with porcini.
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I mean, I would go out in the woods for like an hour and I'd
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come back with literally about 100 lbs.
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So I have a question only because it's a hot topic that a
4:45
lot of chefs I did a video for for you for foods and season,
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like how to clean a moral mushroom, right?
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So you sent me some great Morales, like here's how I clean
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them. And then I realized, like, why?
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I know more than one way to clean a mushroom.
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But like, chefs get so hung up, like, you're doing it wrong.
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There's a right way to do it. You got to.
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And mushrooms are one of those things that's, like, every chef
5:07
has an opinion. And if you're doing it a
5:08
different way, you're wrong. Yeah.
5:10
What are some of your best practices for cleaning
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mushrooms? And let's go through like the
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big ones that need a lot of cleaning question like like
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Morels. Well, like and black.
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Let's start with morels. And black trumpets, another one.
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OK, so I always, I like to actually bite the mushroom when
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I get it in like right when I get the shipment wrong, I'll
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take a bite and see what kind of dirt it is.
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Is it sandy or is it like soft dirt?
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Because if it's sandy, like nobody wants sand in between
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their teeth. It's the worst, like crunchy.
5:37
Yeah, yeah, because it doesn't break down.
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So if they're sandy I'll usually wash them quickly.
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And my technique is 3 cold, like third pants full of of cold
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water. And then I just, I go quickly, I
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drop them in the first one and I just kind of like, yeah, but not
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too much try to get that sediment to fall.
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And then I quickly go through the next two and then out.
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Do you dry them like on a on a on a towel or something?
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Yeah, like, you know, usually we'll dry them off a little bit
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like on a towel, then we'll put them in the walk in like open,
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you know, like on a sheet tray. I think I've heard everything
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and I've never heard that one. I love that the.
6:15
Washing. Yeah, the the process.
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I love just to hear a process. If they're not like especially
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with the trumpet because that that has that, you know, it's
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like that funnel and it's like everything collects in the
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bottom of it. So you have to, unfortunately,
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you usually have to like slit them open because there's pine
6:30
needles and there's like a little Pebble in there.
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They're dirty so I'll usually tear them in half Do that.
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If they're not sandy then I'll try to clean them without water.
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Maybe brush them off. Porcini's a super easy one to
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clean. You can literally brush it off
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and wipe it off. Like wipe the caps off with a
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wet rag and then I usually peel the stem off just to get that
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outer kind of skin off. Morel is a Tuffy because they
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can either be, if they're grown in like a burn, they're usually
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not sandy. They're usually it's just ash,
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you know, right dirt. But then you get the ones that
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are sandy and they're difficult to clean.
7:04
They are, yeah. So what is your Morel processes?
7:07
I do the same. 33 clean water changes.
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I do the same. And sometimes you have to do it
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all over again, right? Because again, nobody wants to
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eat sand. Do you ever do like a little bit
7:16
of vinegar in there? No.
7:18
No. What about like the some people
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like I know they'll like, they'll cry with them just to
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kill anything and they'll see if any worms come out.
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Well, and also I appreciate that you do that because actually a
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lot of chefs just will decide not to use the product because
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they don't know how to clean it. And knowing if you go into a
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restaurant and you get a bite like that, your average patron
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is not going to understand that it came from the earth.
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Yeah, yeah, they're not going to like it.
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Yeah, they our patrons have a hard time with bugs and dirt.
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Yeah, yeah. No one likes a sandy mushroom or
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a gritty mushroom. No, no one.
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No, no. One wants sand in.
7:53
Them now, but it's just part of it.
7:55
Yeah. So the cleaning process is I
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don't know how you guys do it. You don't use the vinegar.
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No, I never actually heard that. No.
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I've heard I do. Is that to like pull the bugs
8:03
out or something? Yeah, yeah, some people, well,
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like I said, some, I've seen some people cry back them just
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to see if any. But doesn't that destroy the
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integrity of the mushroom? It does, yeah.
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Or put it in a zip lock one way or the other.
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I've also seen people. Like to anaerobic situation and
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then they just like, come out and die.
8:20
Yeah, yeah. Dead bugs.
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Some, some every. There's the flower.
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Have you seen the flower technique?
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No. So some people will toss like
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chanterelles is another one, flour with a little bit of flour
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and then rinse them so all the dirt sticks to the flour and
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then they come out clean. I've never heard that.
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I've never. Heard.
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Well, like I said, when you start, like if you're on social
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media and you show someone how to do mushrooms, you're going to
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wind up with 100 people telling you another way to do it.
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So you just have to read the comments.
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But, you know, that's the beauty of the culinary world because I
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had AI used to go to the California Culinary Academy of
8:55
San Francisco in the early 90s. Yeah.
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And I had a chef tell me you're going to learn ten ways to make
9:00
mayonnaise. Yeah.
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You find the one that you like the best.
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Yeah. And run with it because there's,
9:04
like, washing mushrooms. There's ten different, different
9:07
ways to do it. And I've definitely heard chefs
9:08
say like, never wash them right. But I mean, there's you gotta.
9:12
You gotta get their non washed mushrooms.
9:15
I know it's the biggest faux pas, but.
9:18
It says some people they also. I wash them.
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I wash them. Yeah, I wash them.
9:22
I know. And I don't tell people I wash
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them. Well, we have what we call the
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Willy Wonka machine at work. And so also before anything hits
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one of your orders, they've already been a little bit
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processed. What's that?
9:38
It's a Willy Wonka machine. And what does he do exactly?
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Well, I don't know. I think we have a patent.
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Cool, I didn't know you guys treated them at all.
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Oh yeah, they go through a whole process, especially like
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depending on how, and then by the time it breaks down, yeah,
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it's a whole thing. Not my department though.
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OK, but can I go Willy Wonka machine?
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Well, that's what that's what a sales team calls it at foods in
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season. And it's kind of like sometimes
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even when you're going out to the warehouse to check out
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product, it's like it could be behind a screen.
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It is the. It's the the perfect name for.
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It to run the a picture of it. Yeah, I will.
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Actually I will. Yeah.
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I just wanna see cuz then you gotta delete it.
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So, so chef, I have a question. I was looking, I mean your food
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is beautiful, by the way. Thank you.
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And I think what I really like about it is the respect that you
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have for ingredients when you're cooking.
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It looks like it looks like you're letting them be the star
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of the show. Yeah.
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I mean, I, I used to work at El Bui a long time ago and I came
10:40
back to the States after working at El Bui and I was infected by
10:43
El Bui. And so the food was not as
10:46
recognizable necessarily. It wasn't that it was all
10:49
molecular gastronomy because that really wasn't the drive of
10:51
El Bui, but it was not what it is today.
10:57
And living in a small town like Aspen, you have to still be
10:59
accessible. Like I mean, my clientele pool
11:02
is very small. So I want people to come into my
11:05
restaurant once or twice a week, not just for special occasions.
11:09
So I had my first restaurant, Mogadore, when I came back from
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Melbuy. It just became a special
11:13
occasion restaurant and you can't pay the bills on that.
11:18
So when I opened Boss, I really wanted to highlight more like I
11:21
wanted the visual to be assessable.
11:23
Like you have a carrot on the plate.
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It looks like a carrot. It's not carrot air.
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So we're really big into showcasing what the product is
11:31
and we respect the wild so much in the forest and where we live
11:34
that I don't want people coming and being like, what is that?
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I want them to see it at night and go identify it right away.
11:40
Be like, oh, I'm having, you know, a carrot or a mushroom or
11:43
whatever. It's not like formed into
11:44
something else. With that said, our techniques
11:47
are still, you know, run deep and there's still a lot of
11:51
altercation going on in recipes and just like, you know, doing
11:54
what chefs do. So anyway, that's.
11:59
When when you're designing your menus for the restaurant, is it,
12:03
is it, is it always seasonal based or is it, is it ingredient
12:06
driven, is it technique driven? Is it a combination of all of
12:09
that? So well, techniques are given
12:10
That just doesn't matter the season for me with the
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technique, it is ingredient driven and it is seasonal,
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seasonal driven. Our biggest focus is our area.
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I mean, my restaurant Bosque comes from the word Bosque.
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POSQE is the forest. We just dropped the UE and
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that's our inspiration. So while I.
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Didn't know that. Yeah.
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Why I like working with you so much and with foods in season is
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that when I'm not getting products that reflect my area,
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the mountains, you're a really great source for that.
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I definitely in the summertime we do most of the foraging
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ourself and she sees it in my sales, like I don't buy as much.
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Also all the little like fun greens I get from you, I don't
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buy as much in the summertime because I have very close
12:59
relationships with super small farms that, you know, within 30
13:02
minutes from the restaurant. So I want to showcase where I
13:06
live, you know, kind of like Noma said, like time and place
13:10
is the kind of theme and we try to follow that sense.
13:13
I want people to eat in Boston and feel like they're in the
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Rocky Mountains. You like that, that you want to
13:17
portray that so that you're you're you're customer that
13:23
comes in and eats, feels like they're eating.
13:25
And honestly, you know, the first, my first line like is not
13:30
the customer. I granted the customer pays our
13:32
bills and it's about the customer because it's a
13:34
business. But really for us, the people I
13:38
take care of like kind of in order and there is a particular
13:41
order, I take care of my team first, like #1 and then a good
13:46
team will take care of the customer.
13:48
Well, you know. So ingredients are so important
13:53
and I think when when you're a chef, you understand that like
13:55
they do a lot of the heavy lifting, But how do you teach
13:58
that to a young cook that's coming into your kitchen that is
14:02
new and they they see all these flashy techniques and they want
14:05
to make bubbles and everything else.
14:09
How do you teach that young cook to respect the ingredient?
14:11
And then the second-half of that question is how do you also
14:17
bring the customer along so that they understand that the carrot
14:20
is going to look like a carrot? Yeah, so for the cook, it's
14:22
actually pretty easy because we get really excited, you know,
14:25
like, Oh my God, look at these porcinis or look at these
14:28
amazing zucchini we just got or this lovage we just got and and
14:31
taste it. Like if you ever tasted lovage,
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it's on fire. We get the team excited.
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I have a very small team, so it's easy to be hands on with
14:40
them. I'm in the kitchen every day, so
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I'm there with the cooks through service on the line there, and
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we just get so excited about what we're working with.
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It's infectious to the cooks. Like they get it and I'm really
14:55
big on like if it doesn't look like it's alive and beautiful
15:00
and fresh and giving all of its glory, then I don't want you to
15:03
use it. Because there's this thing with
15:05
cooks, like let's say we get in some lovage and then the there's
15:13
also lovage in house already and it starts to go bad.
15:15
It starts to like, you know, degrade a little bit.
15:19
Well, for some reason cooks always feel like they can't
15:21
throw it away. So they wait, they keep using it
15:23
and using it until they get to the new lovage.
15:25
So now the new lovage is old and now that's getting old.
15:28
So you're never staying on top of the freshness, you're just
15:30
staying on top of the not so fresh.
15:32
So we're always putting products that are not pristine either
15:39
into fermentation or in the staff meal.
15:42
Or honestly, sometimes I'll be like, hey, you want to take a
15:45
couple of pounds of mushrooms home and cook them up for your
15:47
family. Like I don't want food on the
15:50
plate that's not peaking. And especially in the summertime
15:54
because you're showing life so much.
15:57
In the winter time, we're focusing on dairy and meats and
15:59
grains and kind of like what you would eat in the cold weather.
16:01
So it's not like that. But in the summer when all the
16:04
ingredients are coming in full speed, then I want to showcase
16:08
that in the best way possible. So, and then to parlay that to
16:11
the guest, we, I mean, they see it right away, they taste it
16:15
right away. And then they're tasting the
16:17
carrot that came out of the ground this morning or yesterday
16:19
or the day before. So, and we're out there in the
16:22
dining room talking to them. I mean, I have a tiny dining
16:24
room, 28 seats. So I'm out there talking to the
16:28
guests, getting them excited about what we're doing and
16:30
explaining to what's going on. Because it's still, even though
16:33
it's accessible looking and you see what's on the plate, there's
16:35
so much going on underneath the cover with technique and
16:38
fermentation and things like that.
16:39
And they're like, where's this flavor coming from?
16:42
So I might take, I mean, for me, cuz I'm a chef and when I go in
16:45
the dining room, sometimes they get too much of an earful.
16:47
Sure. It's not a curated like server
16:50
sure spiel. It's nice feel.
16:52
About it, yeah, I'm excited about it.
16:54
Can't wait to tell. Something and that's.
16:55
Affected and they're that's infectious to the customer too.
16:58
So they might get an earful and I might rant a little bit or
17:00
just go a little too long at the table, but they they appreciate
17:05
it. And then that's something that
17:06
you do then too, to your to your chefs that are coming on.
17:10
You're you. You encourage them to not
17:13
necessarily cycle through a whole box of something just to
17:16
get rid of it. It's just you use the the the
17:20
most fresh nicest. Yeah.
17:22
I'm always preaching that in the.
17:23
Yeah, because that's the tendency.
17:24
And I met you that they're a little intimidated by that
17:27
because they also don't want to be wasteful and they see it as
17:30
wasteful, but they're free. But it's not wasteful because we
17:33
still use it. I mean, our fermentation program
17:35
is huge so and, and staff meal is super important.
17:39
You know I want my staff meal to be delicious.
17:42
Can we go right into fermentation?
17:44
Yeah. Yeah.
17:46
Only because I, I think fermentation is, I don't want to
17:50
say it's new because we've been doing it forever, but it's it's
17:52
new in in almost every kitchen. Yeah.
17:55
You know, if you were a restaurant that focused on that,
17:58
maybe. But now it's like it's, it's now
18:00
part of the repertoire of so many chefs and cooks.
18:04
What does your larger program look like, first of all?
18:07
And then if you had to get into like some fermentation basics
18:10
for the people that are listening, what would that look
18:12
like? So I too jumped on that like
18:16
global stage of fermentation when it started coming up strong
18:19
about what 10 years ago or so. And again, I think Noma kind of
18:23
pushed that with their Art of Fermentation book and.
18:27
Which is a great book. I feel like they.
18:29
Well, actually they're not art of Fermentation, they're just
18:31
fermentation. What's the name of that book?
18:32
The Noma Fermentation book? There's another book called Art
18:35
of Fermentation that's really. Sandor Katz has one, and then
18:38
Renee Rizzepi has there's. A couple that are great.
18:40
I like the Noma one a lot because it's so chef like, like
18:45
language friendly. You can read it and you
18:47
understand it. And it's not like it's not
18:49
getting like too complicated. It's so simple.
18:51
And then they give you recipes that you can like try out and
18:54
then run with it, you know, like change the ingredients, but it
18:57
just shows you the technique. So our larger program it has
19:00
been is really interesting, I think and it's developed over
19:03
the years at Bosca. Bosca is 9 years old now and we
19:08
tried to gather up as much product during the summer months
19:11
to preserve, to get us through the entire year.
19:14
So like when I get back to town Monday morning, I'm going down
19:19
to sustainable settings farm by Dynamic Farm.
19:22
So and we're going Monday morning because that's a flower
19:24
rhythm day or moment. And we're going to go pick
19:27
dandelion flowers. We'll pick about 25 lbs and then
19:30
we'll turn that into a syrup. How do you what's the process
19:34
to? So it's super easy.
19:36
It's 5050 dandelion flour to sugar.
19:40
Put it in a dark cellar for about 35 days and then it
19:45
extracts all the moisture of the flour.
19:47
It's the same as making like pine migolio.
19:50
That's what I made with what you sent me.
19:52
You did, It's simple. And that £25 will make enough
19:57
syrup to last us a year. So we try to and we now know
20:01
what ingredients that work for our kitchen the best because
20:04
when we first started doing heavy foraging and fermentation
20:06
and everything, we were like doing everything.
20:09
So we had a little bit of everything.
20:11
But that doesn't get you very far, like in time, like a couple
20:13
of weeks and you're out. Yeah, Yeah.
20:15
So we're, we've found like what works for our menu and for our
20:18
kitchen and we stockpile. So dandelions will be next week.
20:22
Soon we'll be hitting the pine tips already popping at the
20:25
lower elevation. Yeah, you sent me a bunch of
20:26
spruce tips. That's what I used.
20:28
Spruce tips. Yeah, that's what we used.
20:29
Yeah, we used the blue spruce tip.
20:31
Yeah, that's a tasty spruce. Tip It's such a unique flavor.
20:34
So I turned some into syrup, and then I turned some into vinegar.
20:37
I think it's good too. Yeah, it's it's wild how
20:39
fermentation because it's kind of simple, but it it when you
20:43
don't know it, like it just seems like so complicated.
20:45
It can seem intimidating, yeah. It's mysterious, yeah.
20:48
Yeah, especially because it's like you, you were talking about
20:51
California Culinary Academy. You know, I went to the Western
20:53
Culinary Institute in Portland, OR, and back then I was talking
20:56
about fermentation. We used to call them sauciers,
20:58
Now we call them larders, Right? I I I joke around, but I think,
21:03
like most cooks and chefs now, have some basic understanding of
21:08
fermentation. Yeah, No, it's out there.
21:10
Yeah. And for us, I just think it's
21:12
such a strong flavor driver in our cuisine.
21:15
It elevates so much and gives you such a, like, a nuance of
21:19
like, kinda like, what is that? Like, where's that coming from?
21:21
Especially when you're, like, working with Koji.
21:23
Yeah. Like, the flavor of Koji is so
21:25
unique and so delicious and so rounding and umami.
21:29
And you use that Koji in so many different applications.
21:32
So we make our own Koji in house.
21:34
You're about ready to do the green strawberries, and that's
21:39
just gonna happen right now. And like you take a break in the
21:43
kitchen, so you have to do a fermentation with that product
21:47
because you can't use it in any other way.
21:48
Yeah, we'll, we'll pickle those. That's how we use that.
21:52
And my bar manager just asked me yesterday for 30 lbs of white
21:56
strawberries. I'm like, wait a minute, let's
21:58
get 15 in first. Because I remember two years ago
22:01
I bought too many white strawberries from her.
22:04
And throughout they don't, we don't use those in the winter.
22:06
That's just not an appropriate ingredient.
22:08
But by September, they were just getting, they were getting hard
22:12
in the pickle. And I was actually talking to a
22:13
chef friend of mine last night. I was like, why do you think
22:15
these things are getting hard? And we think maybe that the
22:17
sugar in the pickle is pulling the moisture out of the
22:21
strawberry. It was just brought up last
22:23
night. So I'm kind of thinking like,
22:24
why that happened? Because the texture is changing
22:27
just to a mushroom. No, it's getting harder.
22:30
That's like, it's like it's pulling the moisture out of it.
22:32
It's getting firmer. Like a raise it like.
22:35
Over a long period of time. So that was so anyway, I was
22:39
like, get you 15 lbs. I don't know what he's gonna do
22:42
with me. I just for the bar program.
22:44
And if you want more, I'll get you more in a couple days.
22:46
Nice. We're also getting in from you,
22:48
which I need to place an order, please.
22:50
Thanks. I need a case of venison hearts.
22:52
OK, do it. What are you gonna?
22:53
Do with it. I do it every year with her.
22:55
What do you do with those? So we take the heart, we split
22:58
it open, we cut out all like those ventricle veins.
23:00
There's like all these like sinews.
23:02
I've I've never. It's like.
23:04
My dad's got mitre and so we have broken down many of elk and
23:08
yeah, the heart is something that he doesn't waste.
23:12
There is, it's there's, there are ventricle veins that you cut
23:16
around. Yeah.
23:17
And then there's like these like tendiny, kind of like strings in
23:20
there that are not edible. So you cut that out and then we
23:23
cure it and we cure it in local. Like we go out and pick wild
23:26
juniper berries and spruce tips and we make a salt sugar cure
23:30
out of that. We cure it for 8 days pressed
23:33
flipping it every day. And and then after that we hang
23:36
it and the walk in will actually use a little reach in and we
23:40
hang it with a fan inside blowing on it to kind of dry it
23:42
out a little bit for about another week.
23:44
And then we do a cold smoke on it for about 8 hours.
23:47
After the cold smoke, we dehydrate it over usually
23:51
overnight. But you don't want to over
23:52
dehydrate it. You want it to be somewhat still
23:54
have a little bit of like resilience.
23:56
You don't want to hard like a rock, right, right.
23:58
So basically what you're getting is beef, Turkey.
24:01
Yeah. And we use that as a flavor
24:03
ingredient to our food. So like, we'll just grate it,
24:07
microplane it across food or into a puree or something like
24:11
that. And I'm sure the flavor's deep
24:13
and people are like, what is that?
24:14
It's. Great, we call it.
24:15
We have a cool dish on the menu. It's called venison bark.
24:18
So we take a parsnip. We roast it whole and then we
24:24
cut the meat out of the parsnip while leaving the skin hole
24:26
like, you know, just shaving down.
24:28
And now we have this sheet of parsnip.
24:31
We dehydrate it overnight till it's super crispy.
24:34
And then after that we fry it to make it more malleable and to
24:38
really make it crispy. And then we re roll it kind of
24:42
like into a cylinder like the part we kind of put it back into
24:44
the form of the parsnip and then we take the meat of the parsnip
24:47
to make a puree of that. We season it with the venison
24:50
part and we've refill it. And then we spray that parsnip
24:54
bark with venison garam. We dust it with the byproduct of
24:59
the venison garam, which are like these solids that are
25:00
leftover after straining. And we dehydrate that into a
25:04
powder, which is like the most amazing Paul or seasoning powder
25:07
ever. And we sprinkle that across that
25:10
sprayed bark. And then we grate more venison
25:12
hard on it and we put it on a little pile of branches from the
25:16
woods and we send it out. That's cool.
25:18
We call it parsnip bar. Again, if you're a vegetarian,
25:20
we call it parsnip bark. If you're not as venison bark.
25:23
Yeah. Yeah, we have a vegetarian
25:25
filling. Sure.
25:26
Yeah, I. Worked with the product Otarga,
25:29
yeah, yeah, that's the and I've seen that shaved obviously,
25:33
obviously. So I'm assuming that by the time
25:35
it's at that point, is it kind of like that texture?
25:37
Very much, yeah. It's like a Botarga or a Mahama.
25:40
Wow. Yeah.
25:40
Fascinating. Yeah.
25:43
If you had like, do you have like fermentation rules that you
25:46
follow in the kitchen? Are you guys do using jars or
25:48
using bags? So we use, well, kind of a few
25:51
things. We use bags a lot.
25:53
We use jars a lot. We don't use as much plastic
25:57
unless it's a huge batch of something.
26:00
And then usually I'll try to use like a metal hotel pan for that.
26:03
But sometimes we use a little bit of plastic.
26:06
Those are usually the vehicles that carry our fermentations.
26:09
We have a chamber that is set at 30°C and that's for all of our
26:14
lacto fermentation and that's usually done in bags.
26:18
Like 2 or 3% salt. We exactly.
26:20
And if it's either, if it's a brine, we'll use 3 to 4%.
26:24
If it's a dry, we'll use usually 2% salt that goes in for a
26:29
however amount of time. You know, three to seven days is
26:31
kind of the you just, you have to taste, right.
26:34
You know, there's no like, it's not like, OK, 4 1/2 days is
26:36
gonna be done. You got to taste your food.
26:38
Is there 1 you you had talked a little bit earlier about like
26:42
you've you've kind of built a flavor Rolodex that works for
26:45
your restaurant. Yeah.
26:46
Are there some unique things as like these are always going in
26:50
your in your kitchen? Like what are?
26:51
What are a couple of? Those things that are always
26:53
going garams because there's such a great way to use up waste
26:56
of like trim off of beef, elk, tomato, mushroom, whatever.
27:01
And for people that are listening, can you just quickly?
27:04
So garam, I mean, the original garam is fish sauce, Roman fish
27:07
sauce and it was little fish and they wouldn't, they wouldn't
27:11
like take out the, the guts and stuff because the bacteria that
27:14
was in the guts is what creates the amalaise change and breaks
27:21
down the protein and then liquefies it into what this
27:26
yummy, amazing liquid. So that was the original 1.
27:30
And then with the, with the, instead of using fish, because
27:34
we don't want to use that and everything because it's going to
27:36
taste fishy, because we, that we need the bacteria to get it
27:39
fired up, we use Koji. So Koji is what make starts to
27:43
make the change in the alteration of the product for
27:45
us. And it's always Koji driven.
27:47
We'll use rice Koji and barley Koji.
27:50
The thing is, it's like gluten free is such a pain in the ass
27:54
and we get a lot of it in Aspen. Of you people listening, you're
27:58
ruining it. You're making chefs very
28:01
unhappy. We get so many dietary
28:03
restrictions in my town, I think it probably supersedes the rest.
28:06
Of the future. So we can then have gluten free
28:10
options, but at the same time like if it detracts from the
28:13
flavor profile we're looking for, then we won't.
28:16
So about the flavor first. It's a it's a kitchen geek
28:20
question that I have for you. You get you get a table that
28:23
comes in and says we're gluten free, but it's a four top and
28:26
only one of them is gluten free. How do you mark the plate?
28:29
Oh, we put a green piece of tape on it.
28:30
Yeah, same thing. We have cut green tape on the
28:33
Expo pass and little strips and we just pull it off and put on
28:35
the plate so that the waiter knows that.
28:37
And the Expo will say, hey, this is that.
28:39
But you know, we'll get people like dairy free.
28:41
And then at the end of their meal, like I want that butter
28:44
scratch. I'm like, oh God.
28:46
Well that's the difference between being like dairy free
28:48
blue and free and then being allergic.
28:51
Yeah, Celiac. OK, Yeah.
28:53
Yeah, yeah, yeah, It's the same thing.
28:55
I do the same, same practice. I just, I'm always curious, like
28:58
a lot of people have different practices, but I like the tape.
29:00
It's it's simple. It's the one with the green tape
29:02
on it. Blue tape.
29:04
They know. Yeah.
29:05
They just take it off before it gets to before it.
29:06
Hits the. I don't think it's ever made it
29:08
to the table. You'd be surprised it's that's
29:10
right. I saw the kitchen last night
29:17
that you worked in. I could see.
29:19
Yeah, the tape would not make it past that.
29:22
It was it was a great dinner last.
29:24
Night it was. It was fantastic.
29:26
Yeah, we went to Garrison. Yeah, it was good.
29:28
Yeah, it was good. Yeah, they threw down.
29:30
Yeah, they did. They really took and they took,
29:32
they really took care of us. Yes, they did.
29:34
And that kitchen? I've never really seen an open
29:38
kitchen with that many gadgets. Yeah, they they it's pretty.
29:43
They've got the yeah, they've got all different kinds of post
29:47
oaks and they're there is. All the the it's going on, it's
29:51
honestly the most beautiful kitchen because you only saw
29:54
that, but you didn't go into the kitchen like there's 10 more
29:58
kitchens that beautiful in that in that area as well.
30:00
Really. Yeah.
30:01
That's why a lot of people get. Into the kitchen and any of the
30:04
Las Vegas, like I went into literally like Joel Robichon
30:08
that kitchen. I was at.
30:09
Where was that not to? Win about the size of this room.
30:13
Wow. Yeah, I mean, you could see it
30:14
though. That was just open.
30:16
I was in Vegas, I think I was in the Venetian and I was in their
30:21
in their kitchen, their banqueting kitchen.
30:22
And you know, like a lot of chefs we have like big 50
30:25
gallon, you know, cookers or whatever, like a steam kettle.
30:28
They had one that like could fit 50 people in like human beings.
30:32
And I'm like, like you had to, you had to climb a ladder to see
30:36
inside. And what were you putting in it?
30:38
I didn't work there. No, I was just, I was just
30:40
looking. I was looking at the kitchen and
30:41
I thought, Oh my God, this is insane.
30:44
Yeah, this is insane. I've never seen a kit and it's
30:46
like computer programmed for their hassup and I'm like, and
30:49
it bags automatic. I don't know.
30:51
I'm assuming that the person that called in sick the night
30:53
before is the one that's responsible for cleaning that.
30:55
Right. Yeah, yeah.
30:56
Kitchen these are different. Like, like you go to one
30:58
kitchen, it's like massive and then you get another one that's
31:00
like tiny. And it's like, just because you
31:02
could really make great food and the tiny one doesn't mean you
31:04
could work in the massive 1 and vice versa.
31:06
I couldn't do the massive 1. No, they're crazy.
31:08
Like 350 square feet. Yes, yours is.
31:11
It's tiny. And I think it's a square also.
31:13
It comes across like you guys are working in a box.
31:16
My kitchen is a square with the staircase going down to the
31:20
restaurant below. So it's like this thumb in your
31:24
ass in the middle of the kitchen.
31:26
But I knew it when I got to play.
31:27
So it's like, I'm not complaining, but it would be
31:30
nice to get rid of that and just have openness.
31:32
But it's OK. I feel like we're working on a
31:34
boat. Yeah.
31:35
Everything's got a spot. You know, spots were created for
31:38
things. And if it doesn't go back there.
31:40
But it's funny too, because when you work in a small space,
31:43
especially when summer comes on, we get more product.
31:45
It becomes a like the walk in becomes Tetris because like you
31:49
maybe you get a case of fennel in and it's not going to fit
31:51
right there where it should go. It's got to go over there until
31:55
you taken some out for it to fit over there.
31:57
What's the most practical thing you've figured out in a tight
32:00
walk in to save space? Do you have like a tip for cooks
32:03
out there? Like, do this and you'll save
32:04
yourself a lot of space. Well, we do keep it organized to
32:06
like that it has its zones. Hardcore organization is really
32:12
important, but I'm like kind of anally organized anyway.
32:14
Yeah, it's my thing, so yeah. Yeah.
32:16
Well, not all chefs are. No, no.
32:18
But I mean the good ones are. I mean, I'm really anal about
32:22
that. And we also don't try to bring
32:24
in too much product at once. We, I mean, we don't want to
32:27
because we want to refresh. Yeah.
32:28
So we get deliveries like every two.
32:30
Days I can't imagine just for me you get at least two to three a
32:34
week so I can deal with yeah every yeah you guys are cycling
32:38
through pretty. Quickly one here's a tip for
32:41
people that are listening. It's one that I I learned and I
32:43
I love it. And when I go into kitchen, I
32:45
like show people. This is like cryovac, your
32:46
spinach. Take it out of the bag, put in a
32:48
cryovac bag because you're going to wilt it away in a pan and it
32:52
like you, you take 10K cases that are gonna be stacked to the
32:55
ceiling that now is like you know, go fits in like 3 cryo
32:59
bags. And then you see what you're
33:00
really your final product and how much you're gonna have.
33:04
Yeah. Yeah.
33:05
Because spinach, like you just keep throwing in the pan and it
33:07
just gets less and less and smaller.
33:09
Yeah, 10 lbs of spinach, you know, for a canal.
33:11
Yeah, I know what? So you forage a lot?
33:15
Yeah. Have you heard like a disastrous
33:18
foraging? Cuz a lot of people I went
33:21
foraging once lost. And.
33:22
Then, Oh my God, yeah, I brought up the lost story.
33:26
We OK disaster and lost Let's. Hear it.
33:28
OK so lost cuz I just got excited about that.
33:30
We were near Glenwood Springs in an area called Four Mile picking
33:34
porcinis and chanterelles. It was a great weekend.
33:37
We came down it was and unfortunately it was like going
33:39
into offseason. So I had a couple £100 of
33:41
mushrooms and we were closing down for offseason, so I just
33:44
did this like $9 dish just to blow them out.
33:47
And you're getting chanterelles for nine months.
33:49
Yeah, yeah, that was a long time ago.
33:51
That was my first restaurant in Mogadore.
33:52
But anyway, we got to the top of the mountain.
33:54
I was with a couple of friends and my two big Rhodesian
33:57
ridgeback docks and you're looking at the ground the whole
34:01
time. You know, you're like where
34:02
you're over focusing. So I went that way and my crew
34:08
went that way. They went down the mountain.
34:10
I went down the other side of the mountain not knowing.
34:12
And then I'm realizing like 1/2 hour into I'm like, wait a
34:14
minute, where's my, where are my peeps?
34:16
And I was lost, man. I went all the way in the wrong
34:20
direction off another side of a mountain.
34:22
So now I'm in an area that's producing mushrooms.
34:24
We were, I found I started finding milk cap mushrooms
34:27
everywhere, which we don't usually.
34:29
They're not the best in Colorado.
34:30
When I used to work in Spain they were like.
34:32
Are those like candy caps? No, I think different.
34:35
They're a rusula. They're like like the size, I
34:39
mean they vary in size, but they're about the size of the
34:41
top of this. And when you break the stem,
34:44
like a little milkiness comes out and they actually stain blue
34:47
in the gills like when you disturb them.
34:49
So anyway, I was lost until about for about 10 hours.
34:52
Oh my gosh, 10 hours. Yeah.
34:54
And I started and I found this like if.
34:55
You have anything on you like a whistle or oh?
34:58
No, I would kept calling my dogs.
34:59
If anybody's going to hear me, it's going to be my dogs.
35:03
I think there. Was like the dogs.
35:04
The dogs didn't see you. They went.
35:05
With them, they went with them. Fucking dogs.
35:10
So then I found this fire Rd. I'm like running up and down the
35:13
fire Rd. in both directions. I go one way.
35:16
I was like, OK, this is not the right way.
35:17
I go the other way. And and finally I came across
35:19
the camp like two people, like a couple who were camping and I
35:23
was like, I was like, this is where I'm camping.
35:25
And they're like, oh, we know where that is.
35:27
And I was freaking out. It was dark.
35:29
Yeah. And I'm like, can you guys take
35:31
me back to my camp? They're like, yeah, sure.
35:32
Let's just finish up here. We're making dinner.
35:34
And I'm like, on edge, like, just take me back to my camp.
35:38
Yeah. And they did.
35:39
They took me back to camp and I found my crew and everything was
35:42
fine. That is such a good story.
35:44
I knew you foraged, but if you have a foraging story where
35:47
you've been lost, then you know that that's a true forage.
35:50
And it was a good experience because now I don't get lost.
35:52
Good. Like what did you learn?
35:54
Like what's some advice to pay? Attention.
35:58
Well, like you said, take a whistle like we.
35:59
Have like, well, they'll lose people in the field for several
36:03
a couple days and then my boss will Johnny will be like, don't
36:08
worry if so and so is found. And we were like, oh, I didn't
36:11
know he was lost, but OK, I'm glad he was.
36:14
You're like, who is that? Show up, but you usually you'll
36:17
have well, they now like that's, you know, that's all they do is
36:21
forage is you have a bucket and you pound on your bucket and but
36:26
if you're look, think about it, if you're looking down foraging,
36:30
looking at something on the ground, you'll get very lost.
36:34
Yeah, you'll get very, very lost.
36:36
So my tip is I always keep my, I always look up and like kind of
36:39
get a reading of where I am, OK, so I don't get lost.
36:42
And then another story was once I was picking, I was going out
36:45
for Angelica like specifically and the look alike to Angelica
36:51
is hemlock, the most poisonous plant in North America will kill
36:54
you. And so I was like, oh, Angelica,
36:57
I'm so excited. And I picked it and I got home
36:59
to identify it because I knew that there was like an
37:01
identifying like I need to make sure and sure enough I'd pick
37:04
like a whole bushel of hemlock. And they even like in the books
37:08
and the guide books, they like the 4G books, they'll tell you
37:11
like, cuz I guess they're hollow stem.
37:13
So like don't like they always use the description don't turn
37:16
into a peashooter like to OK, like kids because kids will use
37:21
them and then they would get sick.
37:23
So that's how poisonous it is. Wow.
37:25
So I got rid of it and I never I never got was affected by it but
37:29
it was an eye opening situation cuz it will kill you.
37:32
Is there? Is there is there any best
37:35
practices for foraging? Like, I know there's apps out
37:37
there that you could take photos of it, you know, kind of.
37:39
Like the apps is you're out in the woods.
37:41
Like you gotta get any reception.
37:43
But do you have any foraging best practices to know if
37:45
something's you know, potentially you know, poisonous
37:48
or toxic? I mean, one way that we do it
37:50
honestly is we'll smell and taste and not like eat the
37:53
thing, but we'll like put on the tip of our tongue if it's like a
37:57
super unpleasurable flavor or bitter, like just doesn't seem
38:01
right. Like your body is telling you,
38:03
like in the wild, what we can and can't eat as like, you know,
38:07
as a race, like any living animal or human, like you're,
38:10
it's in you. Like that knowledge is there.
38:13
Whether you're tapped into it or not is one thing, but it was
38:16
there just, you know, like on a primitive level.
38:19
Well, I'm being tapped in. That's a.
38:21
That's a perfect example of once you you once you find out one
38:25
characteristic that should stand out, making it like an edible or
38:30
edible, then it's like instantly, you know, like like
38:33
there's a the the false morals. Like they don't, they look like
38:37
a morale what not, but they their caps sit on top of a stem
38:41
and they're not. So the morale doesn't go all the
38:43
way through and attached to the bottom of the stem so that when
38:46
you're looking at you're like, Oh, that's obviously a false
38:49
one. But if you're like and that's it
38:51
just sounds like a very easy, Oh, there's not.
38:53
The caps aren't connected to the stems.
38:56
But then once you know that, then you're like, Oh yeah, I can
38:58
tell which ones are going to be that I should and should not
39:01
eat. And we're pretty fortunate in
39:03
Colorado. Like the porcini, there's really
39:05
no look alike. OK, I mean, there's like 1, but
39:08
really what you're going for, Like the King Belit, there's no
39:10
look alike. The chanterelle, there's
39:12
definitely no look alike, no, at least in my area.
39:15
So. And those are the two Primo
39:16
mushrooms that grow where we live.
39:17
And there's a lot of other mushrooms that are delicious
39:19
too, like, you know, like woodier and stuff like that.
39:22
But those are the kind of the ones that are the show stoppers
39:25
people know, and they're delicious.
39:27
When, you know, I don't have a lot of experience foraging, but
39:29
I, I did forage for a little bit when I was a chef and I went
39:34
with someone who's an expert at foraging and they took us out.
39:39
They took my culinary team out. And they were just introducing
39:42
us to a whole bunch of new things that I just as a chef, I
39:45
didn't know. Yeah, flavors that I was
39:47
unfamiliar with, you know, I remember we got like black
39:49
walnuts and we're, we're using the iodine for stuff.
39:51
And it was just like stuff that I, I never thought of.
39:55
But what was interesting for me was that there was things out
39:58
there and I don't remember, unfortunately, some of the
40:00
things that I tried, but I have no frame of reference.
40:02
It's like, I can't describe how that tastes because it tastes
40:04
like that. There's completely new flavors
40:07
that you would only discover if if you have gone foraging and
40:11
I've tried some of these things. Is there anything like that that
40:14
you've come across that's like? It's such a unique flavor, but
40:17
you can't compare it to anything else.
40:19
Yeah, so there's a so kind of back to the mushroom thing real
40:23
quick. Like mushrooms are like the
40:24
gateway to foraging. Everybody knows the mushroom,
40:26
but there's so much out there beyond the mushroom.
40:29
So I came across this plant a couple of years ago that we
40:32
started using heavily. Now it's called bluebell, and it
40:35
has like this little bluebell flower.
40:36
Like this little blue flower hangs on top like a bell and it
40:39
has a long elongated leaf and the leaf tastes like hold on,
40:45
tastes like an oyster po boy sandwich.
40:47
It tastes like raw. It tastes like cooked oyster,
40:49
not raw oyster like fried oyster.
40:51
Was this the first time that you had tried it when you found?
40:54
It yeah. And so my sous chef was like,
40:56
oh, this is Bluebell, let's get. Because he knew it, but he
40:59
didn't really forage it so much. And so that was something that
41:02
was really unique to us that never I'd never experienced.
41:06
But The funny thing about that plant is we tried to, like,
41:09
preserve it in different ways, and it was the most God awful
41:12
flavor you've ever had. Really.
41:13
Fresh is the only way we know how to use it right now.
41:16
Yeah. So we use it fresh.
41:17
Well, that was a fun, but how as far as the most of the kitchens
41:21
that you've worked in, you don't, they don't really allow a
41:25
lot of that freedom. I mean, well, that's.
41:28
Not are you able to? That's not necessarily true.
41:29
Are you able to forage and then bring that food into?
41:32
Technically, a lot of places know.
41:35
I mean, people do it. Technically.
41:37
Why? Yeah.
41:39
Is it a legality thing or is it just the boss, the management
41:43
thing not to? You know, I haven't really
41:45
thought about it. I never like never asked
41:47
permission. Never pushed.
41:49
It so like, no, I wasn't telling anyone I was doing it.
41:52
So I was like, I'm not really gonna look into it.
41:54
If I think it's safe, I'm gonna I'm gonna do it feel the same
41:56
way. But I wasn't an expert enough in
42:00
it to do it all the time. Like once I noticed a couple of
42:03
things like, OK, that's a Turks cap.
42:04
I could use that or yeah, you know, this this particular.
42:07
The reasons that I. Thought use it, I'll I'll use
42:09
it. Well, good, good for Chef
42:11
Barkley to come on is because I don't think, I think you're in
42:14
the regular boat. There's not a lot of opportunity
42:17
that chefs get to get out there and find ingredients, even if
42:22
it's at a farm, you know? Yeah, yeah.
42:27
And there's there's new flavors out there.
42:30
And I think, you know, one of the great things that Noma did
42:33
is that they opened up the door to new flavors.
42:37
Because I feel like I'm going to rant just for a minute, but I
42:40
feel like in culinary there's there's evolutionary jumps and
42:44
we had fire and before that we did it and then like we didn't
42:48
have much until, OK, we got fire, but now we got pots and
42:50
pans we could cook in. And then there's no other
42:52
evolutionary jump until elbulli. It's like now we have new things
42:57
we're cooking with anti griddles and circulators and
43:00
hydrocolloids. And it's like, oh, there it was
43:02
like we didn't have an evolutionary jump for a few 100
43:05
years until elbulli. But then when Noma came out, I
43:10
feel like, I don't think they invented it, but it's like they,
43:14
they put something new back in food.
43:17
It's like, well, we could also forge and ferment.
43:20
And they made it, I don't want to say mainstream, but they,
43:22
they made it more accessible to people in kitchens like we were
43:25
talking about earlier. So it was like another
43:27
evolution. And so now people are more
43:29
interested in it. They're they're much more
43:31
knowledgeable. Fermentation is great, making
43:34
garams and things like that. So yeah, it's it's pretty cool.
43:36
But I do want to ask you this because there's no way that I'm
43:41
gonna let you say, oh, when I worked at Al Buhli and then and
43:43
then like, we're not going to talk about because I didn't know
43:45
that. What was that like?
43:48
So I went to Al Buhi in 98 and then back in 2000.
43:53
So I did 2 steps there as a stygier and it was I was looking
43:59
for the next way of thinking and presenting and working with food
44:07
and that was it. I mean for lunch.
44:09
So when I was there, I was there for like the summer season
44:12
because that was that was the only time they were open.
44:13
It was the summer season and you would learn.
44:15
It was so cool man. You would learn like 10 new
44:18
things every day. Like how often can you say that
44:21
you learn 10 pretty substantial cool things yesterday or today?
44:26
Right, right. Every day.
44:27
Every day and this was before cell phone, so you weren't
44:30
taking pictures and they didn't really want us taking notes.
44:33
So you go run over in a corner and you'd like scribble.
44:36
You could barely even read it in a little pad.
44:38
And after work, you go home at night after your like 15 hour
44:41
shift, you go home at night after we all went to the bar
44:44
together because it was just this camaraderie in that
44:47
kitchen. We'd all go out for like a drink
44:49
and some tapas at 1:00 AM and then we'd go home and get a
44:52
couple hours so you can wake up and be back to work by like 830
44:55
so. This is like at kind of like
44:58
peak elbulli. This was peak elbulli.
45:01
Yeah, yeah, this is when when I got there, they were really
45:04
starting to get hammered with magazines and like the full
45:06
exposure was full on so and then it just carried for the next
45:11
years until they closed. So I was there kind of, I think,
45:14
I don't know if I was there, only I was on the earlier side
45:16
of the, the explosion, but they still are.
45:19
They'd already exploded. And I really loved the way that
45:23
they, the chefs were there too. Like they would tell you
45:25
something once they tell you again, third time, they might
45:28
yell at you, you deserved it. Come on, retain it.
45:31
But they wanted you to be, they worked with you as a, it was
45:34
like a compassionate kitchen. Like it wasn't like I would hear
45:38
rumors or stories from my stodge friends, like who went because a
45:42
lot of them from Spain, of course, and they would do their
45:44
stodges in France. Like it was just brutal, man.
45:47
Like it was just brutal. It was like terrorizing you and
45:52
I didn't feel that way. It'll be.
45:53
It was a really nice feel there and you learned a lot.
45:56
Who was there when you were there?
45:57
Because I'm assuming that so many greats went through that
45:59
kitchen. There were no there was only two
46:01
Americans when I was there. It was me.
46:04
I think his name was David Cruz. This was a long time ago.
46:06
I don't know if he's chefing anymore or not, but no one else
46:10
had one guy. I can't remember his name.
46:12
He's still chefing. He used to be at what was Patina
46:16
in LA? OK, yeah, he was the chef.
46:18
Under what was his name? I I I'm drawing a blank.
46:22
Joaquim speak all yes, so he was under him.
46:25
He was like his executive Sue or chef de cuisine.
46:28
He was there for like a week with me, but then he left like
46:31
he just came in for a quick stint, but like Grant wasn't
46:34
there when I was there and these other big names.
46:37
It was just really the two like. Everyone went through there
46:39
like, like a lot of the greats, you know, the Roca brothers, all
46:42
those guys, yeah. I mean, and Renee went through
46:44
there and, and Jose Andres, we all know would come.
46:50
We would have like days down at the laboratory at the atelier in
46:56
Barcelona and we would go down like a little field trip, sorta.
46:59
It was like an hour, hour and a half away or something.
47:01
And but you can't. We didn't understand the
47:05
language barrier was too much when it came into speaking on
47:08
that level and, like, philosophy of what they're doing.
47:10
So Jose Andres would step in and like, translate for us.
47:14
This is before I even know who who Jose Andres was.
47:16
Yeah, he was. Just a pup.
47:17
He I think he was just mini bar at the time.
47:20
He hadn't blown up in the states yet.
47:22
He just moved to the states. Wow.
47:24
So that was really cool and that was a lot of fun having him
47:27
around. So anyway I.
47:30
Got what was I'm assuming you know for on Albert they're
47:33
they're there. All the Albert was in was down
47:36
in Barcelona. Albert and Oriole Castro were in
47:39
Barcelona in the test kitchen all the time.
47:42
They would come up and introduce new dishes to us and stick
47:44
around for a day or two and get it dialed in and then they'd go
47:47
back. Farran was there.
47:49
You never didn't see Farran. He was there from them before
47:52
you got to work until after you left work.
47:55
And our shift was like 9 to midnight.
47:57
So you said something that piqued my interest.
47:59
You said we were learning 10 new techniques a day.
48:02
I'm assuming a lot of these are no longer hidden.
48:03
We probably know them now, but what were some of the the
48:07
techniques back then that was like?
48:09
I mean, I was there when the hot foams came on and the ISI foams,
48:14
I was there when the hot gelatins came on like first.
48:16
So the Agar Agar gelatin. And then it was, it wasn't even
48:20
just those kind of things, but it was like how to properly wrap
48:24
a sheet of thin sheet of gelatin around fish row to emulate the
48:28
fish row sack. Like putting it back into his
48:31
place of nature sort of. It was just a lot of little
48:33
things like that. Now don't forget too, This was
48:36
25 years ago, yeah, so I don't remember exactly.
48:39
What I Yeah, no, no, I used to have that bully set.
48:42
You know, the ones that came with the DVD.
48:44
I know. Or that.
48:45
Yeah. See.
48:45
No, I'm so bummed that they, they, they did that because my
48:49
DVDs are all scratched and ruined and then my computer, the
48:52
software got updated and it wouldn't read those DVDs
48:54
anymore. So I don't have those recipes
48:56
anymore. I just have the pictures.
48:58
My books got stolen from my office.
48:59
Oh my God yes I don't have them and there were like $300.00
49:02
books back then. You know what they're worth
49:04
today? I have no idea.
49:05
I mean, I, I can't believe what cookbooks are going for too.
49:08
Yeah, I've seen some, like I've got the, what's the, what's Ben
49:12
Sheree's restaurant in Melbourne, Attica.
49:14
Yeah. So I have his book and then I
49:16
just saw, I mean it was like a social media, someone was like
49:19
trying to sell their Attica book for like 1200 dollars.
49:22
Yeah. And so that made the peak my
49:23
interest. So then I like I Google it
49:25
'cause I have the original ebook.
49:27
I got like 2 of them when I was there and so I looked that up
49:29
and I don't remember what the price was, but it was like over
49:31
1000 bucks. Yeah, it was like 75 at the time
49:34
it. Was wild.
49:35
Yeah, they're they're, they're extremely pricey.
49:36
Because they only made a certain amount of production it'll have.
49:39
They're not. They're no more.
49:40
Out and you never know when it's going to really take off or
49:43
restaurants really gonna explode it.
49:45
Everybody knows who it is. And then you're like, oh, I've
49:48
worked there before yeah, You know, I was part of that
49:50
success. Do you guys have chefs that you
49:52
say you've cycled through? What do you mean?
49:55
As far as like you were saying it ugly like people would staj
49:59
Do you have chefs in your kitchen that you are training to
50:02
become? Well, I have chefs themselves.
50:06
Yeah, I mean, move along. So my guys have gone.
50:09
I'm pretty proud of like where they've gone.
50:10
I had a cook a couple years ago leave me and went to the went to
50:15
TfL for a year and now he's at another brand new restaurant
50:18
that's opened up in Sonoma or Napa.
50:22
Another cook went after me. He went to Menresa and to Blue
50:26
Hill Stone Barn. And so, yeah, I definitely like
50:30
that we're not the upper echelon and in America, like these
50:34
really big chefs, you know, But I feel really good that we're
50:38
training our cooks and then it's really important to let them go.
50:42
Yeah. You know, like you're going to
50:43
learn from me. You're going to learn from him.
50:45
You're going to learn from him. And you're going to get to a
50:46
point in your career like you've gone through the the path that
50:49
now you can say I'm ready to be a chef and do my own thing.
50:54
I do want to ask you a couple of chef questions.
50:58
The first thing is I want to take you.
51:01
I want you to take me through. You're in your kitchen, you're
51:04
setting up, you're about to work service.
51:06
What does your station look like?
51:08
My station. Your station.
51:09
What's on your station? So my station is called the
51:11
Chef's Table. OK, because my station just used
51:13
to be my prep station. I would prep in the daytime and
51:16
then go into service. My that prep table of my station
51:19
became a station during service. Now, because our kitchens gotten
51:22
bigger, we've gone from 4 cooks to 6 cooks, so there's no room
51:26
in the kitchen. So my station gets commandeered
51:28
for service as a station. So I'll work at two nights a
51:31
week and then my other chef will work at five nights a week.
51:35
So I can do everything I need to do as an owner and a boss and
51:38
talk to customers and go up and down the line and work with the
51:41
cooks. So my station is all yakumi pans
51:45
which I've fallen in love with. As well.
51:47
What are they called? The little Japanese.
51:49
Yes, yes, yes, yes. OK, love them.
51:50
Yeah, they're so great. So we've kind of 86 the 9 pan,
51:53
the six pan at least when it comes to station Miesenplat set
51:56
up, so hyper organized and then. I love that tip.
52:01
OK, I love using that. I love them Pan and.
52:04
We just keep buying more. Pretty good mutual trading
52:06
company. I don't know where I get them.
52:09
It's not mutual trading company, it's another it's I'd have to
52:13
look in my emails. It's like chuba or something
52:16
CHUBO or something. So I have that set up in my
52:21
station is the bread service, the Amuzbu service, caviar, a
52:27
couple other dishes to alleviate stress off the line when I just
52:30
know we've come up with a new dish because we changed the menu
52:32
like constantly, like something new comes in, we're excited
52:36
about it, it's going on the menu.
52:37
Yeah. And something might come off, it
52:39
might stay on. So to alleviate stress on the
52:42
line, sometimes those dishes will hit my station just to kind
52:45
of lighten the load because it's just too much for those guys.
52:50
Yeah, I mean, that's just my station setup.
52:52
Do. You have like a finishing salt
52:53
that you use like a preference. I mean, I love Meldon.
52:56
Meldon I am personally. Do you use lemon vinegar?
52:59
More vinegar than lemon? Yeah.
53:00
Specific vinegar you. Yeah, specifically, we go
53:03
through a ton of it. We use white balsamic, white
53:05
balsamic, and especially for like pickling and for a lot of
53:07
recipes, because a lot of recipes we'll call for apple
53:10
cider vinegar, but it's a little too appley.
53:12
Like you get the flavor profile, but white balsamic has that
53:16
light, mild sweetness to it without being super like tart
53:20
with a very neutral flavor profile.
53:22
So that's what we use for all of our pickling unless there's
53:25
something specific. So yeah, wipe Balsamic vinegar
53:29
is a big one for us. And you have like plate wipers
53:32
or anything like that on? Your so we use rolled up like a
53:37
little sport towel, like a disposable sport towel and
53:40
everything. No, we don't.
53:41
I, you know, from El Bugi, we used to have a squirt bottle
53:44
with red tape around it, and that was alcohol and everybody
53:47
knew it. And I've tried to bring that
53:49
into kitchen since then. Yeah.
53:51
And I don't know, people just don't want to register with that
53:53
as like I did. Yeah.
53:55
Even though we still have red tape on the alcohol bottle at
53:57
Bosque. Yeah.
53:58
But we usually use water. Yeah.
54:00
Like just a rolled up damp napkins sitting in a little pan
54:03
and they're all just kind of moist and just use them and
54:05
throw them away. Got it.
54:06
The alcohol's nice because I like the alcohol.
54:08
It cleans and evaporates right away.
54:10
Yeah. A little taste, Flavor.
54:13
No, I mean, I've seen like everyone has a different plate
54:15
wipe system. I've one that I really liked.
54:18
I've never used it, but I saw it and I thought it was good as
54:20
someone would get like just yellow sponges and cut them up
54:22
and then soak them in. And I thought that was kind of.
54:24
Cool too. Yeah, if you had a Mount
54:28
Rushmore of chefs, 4 chefs that you feel like, OK, these are the
54:33
four greatest chefs to me, who would be on that on that
54:35
mountain. Well, I would have to put the
54:39
the Adria brothers right in there.
54:41
Both Fran and Albero. Let's call that one.
54:43
OK, same. Same place.
54:46
I mean, honestly, the names are not gonna be like chocolate.
54:49
It's like Thomas Keller. Yeah, You know, Thomas came in
54:53
the restaurant last summer and we're like, oh, my God, Thomas
54:57
Keller's coming in. We are all were.
55:00
You did, you know I had? It yeah, I knew ahead of time
55:02
because he had a friend and asked.
55:03
Is that worth knowing ahead of time or better?
55:06
It didn't really matter, but it's a good question.
55:07
It's a good question. So Thomas Kelly came in and the
55:11
nice. I'd never met him.
55:13
I didn't know what to expect at all.
55:15
He's has such an allure to him. He was the nicest, most
55:18
gracious, engaging person. He was wonderful.
55:22
And then he came in the kitchen during service.
55:24
He my station is like right at the door.
55:26
He walked right by me. He walked right onto the hotline
55:29
and he's like, who wants to take pictures?
55:31
You know, like, like, and the cooks were just like, Oh my God,
55:34
this is the most we all got our picture taken.
55:36
It was so much fun. And then he came back three or
55:39
four days later, really, which was the biggest compliment of
55:42
all. Yeah, that was cool.
55:43
And then he wrote me a personal e-mail too.
55:44
So that was like, yeah, he's just.
55:47
And I saw, I just watched the Chef's Table.
55:50
It's a great. Promise.
55:50
I thought it was great. Yeah, I thought.
55:51
And what I love about what he said, one thing, one of the
55:53
things he said was like, I'm at the point my career now where
55:56
it's time to give back. Yeah.
55:57
And I kind of felt like that was the mentality that we
56:00
experienced with him. He was, he's amazing.
56:03
He's. Been a customer of ours for a
56:04
very long time at Foods and Season and back to producing
56:09
chefs. There are so many chefs that we
56:12
still work with at other restaurants that have come from
56:16
French. Laundry.
56:17
Yeah. French Laundry.
56:18
Yeah, yeah. I mean that they're, they're
56:20
arguably the most influential restaurant in the United States
56:24
ever. Yeah, you got the most
56:26
influential chef ever. So was that there was 2 so.
56:30
Those two, Danielle two, I'm a big fan of Danielle.
56:35
I staged in his kitchen like 1997 or something.
56:39
I remember it was a long time ago.
56:41
I just think he's such. And the cool thing about
56:44
Danielle, you see him everywhere.
56:46
Yeah, you do like on social media, like one day he'll be
56:48
like in the and. He's the life of the party.
56:49
Yeah, he, oh, he is. He'll be like high fiving cooks
56:52
in Shanghai and then the next day is like in Madrid.
56:56
I'm like, you're all over the place and he's always out like
56:59
late night. My birthday was my 50th birthday
57:03
six years ago. I was in Saint Louis and it's
57:07
either his son or his daughter or I get confused is married to
57:11
somebody from Saint Louis. So I we, we like got together
57:15
for drinks one night there. Like it was so it was late.
57:18
It was like for my birthday, it was like a bunch of Saint Louis
57:21
chefs and. And he was out there.
57:23
Yeah, and he was out in the bell.
57:25
Wow. I'm like, you're just
57:26
everywhere. You're a real person, yeah.
57:29
And then the 4th 1, I don't know, there's a there's a bunch
57:33
of people out there. It's a tough question too cuz
57:34
then you think about them after you leave, right after you leave
57:37
the room. Probably for days.
57:38
But I mean, probably like Maimo, chef of Maimo, or even like
57:47
Renee. Yeah.
57:48
And Noma but then there's all these chefs that just mean so
57:51
much to you that aren't people, that are people that you know,
57:53
like my chef from San Francisco when I was really, really young
57:57
in my early 20s, Manny Goodman, who saw his past, like he taught
58:01
me. I was like, I remember saying to
58:02
him, chef, how do you know what it's done?
58:05
He's like cook until delicious. He.
58:08
Didn't say he didn't. Say 45 minutes and 350° oven, he
58:12
said. Cook until delicious.
58:14
I'm gonna use that on Chef's PSA, by the way.
58:16
I'll give you credit, but that's such a good one.
58:18
Yeah, and his name was Manny Goodman, so he was a wonderful
58:20
chef. And so there's those guys who
58:22
really teach you. I mean, Charles Dale is my
58:24
mentor. Yeah.
58:25
And I started working with him in my mid 20s and he's just.
58:30
He was one of Danielle's proteges.
58:33
So it's like those guys, too, who aren't as famous as Thomas
58:37
and Danielle, but they, they had everything to do with your
58:39
culinary path, right. And I, you have chefs like that,
58:42
too. Yeah, certainly.
58:43
Like the ones that built you up and the ones that you respect.
58:45
There's there's chefs that built me up that no one might ever
58:48
know who they are, but they bent everything to me.
58:50
And that could be the same way for me one day.
58:52
Like, you know, I feel like I've had an impact on chefs, but at
58:55
the end of the day, it's like I'm not going for the fame and
58:58
the glory. People know who you are, Chef.
58:59
Do they? Yeah, they know who you are.
59:01
But you never they know who we are.
59:02
When you're yourself, you never know.
59:04
Yeah, well, before we wrap up, Heather will start with you.
59:06
Where can people find you? Food's in season and my I do a
59:11
lot on my Instagram. Heather of the Woods.
59:14
Heather of The Woods Chef Where can people find you and learn
59:16
more? Aspen, Colorado, you can check
59:18
out our website, boscasboscaspen.com and you'll
59:22
see what's going. On and if they want to follow
59:23
you on Instagram. Boss Gaspin and then my personal
59:27
Instagram which I'm fine with because the only pictures on it
59:30
are pictures of food. My and foraging is BARXO Bar XO.
59:37
Awesome. Well, thank you guys.
59:38
So. Much, I think you do.
59:39
My cell phone number. Oh yeah.
59:41
Yeah. Do you want, I mean people
59:43
that's everyone has my cell phone number.
59:45
I'm very, I'm very obtainable. All right.
59:48
Yeah, Yeah. That's what I do for you guys,
59:50
for you chefs. Yeah, so myself there, slide
59:53
into, slide into Heather's DMS and ask for her cell phone
59:56
number. I've gone on.
59:59
You better be careful what you're asking for.
1:00:01
Oh, you guys, you chefs. Well you guys, there's no time
1:00:05
frame at working in the kitchen, so I get calls from literally
1:00:09
every day, every every hour of the day.
1:00:12
And she gets back to you. Yeah.
1:00:14
Which is. Yeah, she's great.
1:00:16
Thank you. FIS in general is great like
1:00:17
that. And if she's not around, one of
1:00:19
your cohorts picks up the baton. And yeah, I love working with
1:00:23
you. Foods in season is the gold
1:00:26
standard, I think, for wild and forged ingredients.
1:00:28
Like it's the best everything from ingredients, but also like
1:00:30
the vinegars and everything. Anyway, we could wrap chefs, we
1:00:33
have dinner. Cool.
1:00:35
Wow. Well, I hope you enjoyed the
1:00:36
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1:00:39
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1:00:41
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