Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / SEX PERV JEFFREY EPSTEIN DEAD! WHODUNNIT?

Transcript

SEX PERV JEFFREY EPSTEIN DEAD! WHODUNNIT? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Tonight. Investigators are pouring over
0:12
Speaker 1: evidence and surveillance footage to figure out the major breakdown
0:15
Speaker 1: that allowed Jeffrey Epstein's apparent suicide in his jail cell.
0:19
Speaker 1: ABC News has learned guards were supposed to check on
0:22
Speaker 1: the alleged sex trafficker every thirty minutes. Sources say that
0:26
Speaker 1: protocol was not followed in the hours before he was discovered.
0:30
Speaker 1: It really is an insane system on so many levels.
0:34
Speaker 1: Attorney Bruce Parquette represents Epstein's former cellmate who roomed with
0:38
Speaker 1: Epstein less than three weeks ago when he was found
0:40
Speaker 1: unresponsive with Marx on his neck. What the guards do
0:44
Speaker 1: and what they're supposed to do are almost always two
0:47
Speaker 1: different things, So one has to wonder how it is
0:50
Speaker 1: that this man who just tried to take his own
0:52
Speaker 1: life by hanging himself a few weeks ago was in
0:55
Speaker 1: a position to successfully hang himself. Just six days after
0:59
Speaker 1: that first incident, Epstein was taken off suicide watch. Saturday
1:03
Speaker 1: morning at six thirty nine, the multi millionaire was found
1:07
Speaker 1: hanging inside of his self. Who done it? How did
1:12
Speaker 1: multi millionaire Jeffrey Epstein charged with multiple counts of sex
1:17
Speaker 1: trafficking miners, child abuse on miners. Allegations are as long
1:23
Speaker 1: as I seventy five? Who done it? Epstein wheeled out
1:28
Speaker 1: dead from a supermax where there were cameras and guards
1:34
Speaker 1: supposedly checking on him by the minute. I'mancy Grace, this
1:38
Speaker 1: is crime Stories. That was our friend at ABC, Stephanie Ramos.
1:42
Speaker 1: You know. Another irritating facet of this, in addition to
1:46
Speaker 1: Epstein never being brought to justice, is the media looking
1:52
Speaker 1: down their noses at everyone mocking the so called conspiracy
1:59
Speaker 1: theories as to how Epstein was killed. I call bs
2:04
Speaker 1: on that. In a basically super max holding facility where
2:09
Speaker 1: guards are watching you twenty four seven, three sixty five,
2:13
Speaker 1: I mean this place has held people like El Chapo,
2:17
Speaker 1: al Qaeda, he mat Off, you name it, and they
2:22
Speaker 1: let Epstein quote kill himself. Whoa, WHOA? Wasn't he just
2:27
Speaker 1: on suicide Watch? How did he just get off suicide Watch?
2:31
Speaker 1: I mean, every jail I've ever been in, and that's
2:34
Speaker 1: been a lot, I'm not proud to say, doesn't let inmates.
2:38
Speaker 1: You wonder why they're wearing footplops because they can't have
2:40
Speaker 1: shoelaces to kill themselves or each other. How was Epstein
2:46
Speaker 1: given the tools to commit suicide? This is not the
2:50
Speaker 1: end to the Epstein case that many people imagine. Joining
2:52
Speaker 1: me right now and All Star panel to break it
2:54
Speaker 1: down and put it back together again. Ashley Wilcot judge,
2:57
Speaker 1: trial lawyer. You can find her Ashley Wilcot dot com.
3:01
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of
3:05
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Doctor Karen Stark, psychologist
3:10
Speaker 1: at Karen Stark dot com, Joining us out of Manhattan.
3:12
Speaker 1: Steve Lampley, former detective, author of Inside the Mind of
3:17
Speaker 1: a Serial Killer, Joining me right Now. Crime Online dot
3:20
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter Dave mac Why is it that I
3:24
Speaker 1: feel like something was just taken away from me? I
3:28
Speaker 1: think it's justice Yancy. The shocking part about this is
3:32
Speaker 1: it seems like everybody that's been following this case from
3:35
Speaker 1: the moment this guy was arrested, from when they bashed
3:38
Speaker 1: in his Manhattan mansion back in the first week of July,
3:42
Speaker 1: everyone knew this guy was he was walking dead, either
3:45
Speaker 1: by suicide or murder by suicide. Whoa WOA hold it,
3:48
Speaker 1: hold it? I don't know if I agree with that
3:51
Speaker 1: about suicide because this guy was such an egomaniac. It
3:56
Speaker 1: was all about him. Apparently he gave his staff orders
4:01
Speaker 1: that he required three orgasms today, like having his meals.
4:06
Speaker 1: Don't laugh, Jackie, I mean, can you imagine your husband
4:08
Speaker 1: jumping up and saying that like he was being brought
4:11
Speaker 1: his meals on silver platters? Literally, he required three orgasms today.
4:16
Speaker 1: That just doesn't fit in my mind. Now I'm just
4:20
Speaker 1: a child lawyer. Hold on, Dave Matt too. Karen Start,
4:24
Speaker 1: you're the shrink, Karen Start at Karen Stark dot com
4:27
Speaker 1: joining me out of your swanky office in Manhattan. Karen,
4:31
Speaker 1: Why does that not fit together in my mind? That
4:34
Speaker 1: somebody so egotistical that he literally thought he didn't think it,
4:40
Speaker 1: he did it. He could buy people just as his
4:43
Speaker 1: own playthings, little girls, and he did it for years.
4:48
Speaker 1: He was the puppeteer pulling the strings on Florida sheriffs.
4:52
Speaker 1: While he was Quote in jail, he would get out,
4:57
Speaker 1: could fly unsupervised to New York, about a short distance
5:02
Speaker 1: away from some of the victims schools. He could leave
5:06
Speaker 1: the Florida jail for twelve hours at a time unsupervised
5:10
Speaker 1: and go to his Quote office and while there. Coincidentally,
5:15
Speaker 1: why what a coincidate? All of the visitors' logs to
5:19
Speaker 1: show young girls going in and out of his office
5:22
Speaker 1: got quote lost. I mean, this is while he's in jail.
5:28
Speaker 1: I find very difficult to believe the puppeteer suddenly got
5:32
Speaker 1: a fit of remorse and killed himself. It's really hard
5:36
Speaker 1: to take in, Nancy, because he just doesn't fit the
5:38
Speaker 1: profile of somebody who would do that. I mean, he
5:42
Speaker 1: felt so much that he was above the loss and
5:44
Speaker 1: used his money to actually have young girls be sleeves
5:49
Speaker 1: in this day and age and so, and to have
5:52
Speaker 1: all kinds of influence with powerful people. It's really hard
5:57
Speaker 1: to see that somebody was that kind of an eager
6:00
Speaker 1: would just crush his own life decide to put it out.
6:04
Speaker 1: And there's just too much about the story that's very
6:08
Speaker 1: mysterious that doesn't make sense. So I agree with you.
6:11
Speaker 1: Not only is it outrageous that nobody has the chance
6:14
Speaker 1: now to get any kind of feeling of revenge or
6:18
Speaker 1: complence watch him suffer, but it's very hard to believe
6:22
Speaker 1: that he did this to himself. And the last thing
6:24
Speaker 1: I need is a bunch of know it alls in
6:27
Speaker 1: the media telling me not to use my mind and
6:32
Speaker 1: consider possibilities other than a suicide. Dave Max, Sorry, I
6:35
Speaker 1: got you off track there, But it's also quite a coincidence.
6:39
Speaker 1: And you know, Ashley Willcott, as I always say, there's
6:41
Speaker 1: no coincidence in criminal law, that this treasure trove of
6:46
Speaker 1: documents implicating former presidents that would be Clinton partia with
6:52
Speaker 1: Trump having Prince Andrew at a party with his arm
6:57
Speaker 1: around a minor girl in a photo. All of these documents,
7:05
Speaker 1: thousands of pages of documents were just released, and then
7:11
Speaker 1: he turns up dead. Now, I'm certainly not saying that
7:14
Speaker 1: Prince Andrew somehow repelled into the facility and killed Epstein.
7:21
Speaker 1: I don't think that. I don't think Clinton did it.
7:24
Speaker 1: I don't think Trump did it. But I can tell
7:26
Speaker 1: you this, when you get a lot of powerful people
7:30
Speaker 1: mad at you, when they are looking at criminal charges,
7:35
Speaker 1: people will do anything to stay out of jail. Ashley Willcott, absolutely, Nancy,
7:40
Speaker 1: are you kidding me? I see it time and time again. Criminals,
7:44
Speaker 1: you know, often aren't upset about what they've done. Like
7:47
Speaker 1: this man I do not believe has any remorse for
7:50
Speaker 1: the many, many crimes. He's a perpetrator that he's committed,
7:53
Speaker 1: he would be upset because he was caught and because
7:56
Speaker 1: he was put in jail. And remember he is a
7:58
Speaker 1: man of many, many resources. Find actually, I think he
8:01
Speaker 1: paid off everybody he needed to to do exactly what
8:03
Speaker 1: he wanted. Dave mag I want to go back to
8:05
Speaker 1: all of the documents that you know what what I'm
8:08
Speaker 1: getting ahead of myself? How did this guy quote commit
8:11
Speaker 1: suicide when he was understood he had been under suicide watch.
8:15
Speaker 1: And even if he wasn't in this supermax where al
8:18
Speaker 1: Chapo had stayed, al Qaeda had been housed there, matt
8:24
Speaker 1: Off had been housed there, How could he commits suicide?
8:29
Speaker 1: How was he just coincidentally not watched at that moment?
8:33
Speaker 1: You know, Nancy, by their rules and by the description
8:36
Speaker 1: I've seen from that cell, it's an impossibility. There's no
8:39
Speaker 1: way the guy can commit suicide. From the clothing they
8:42
Speaker 1: gave him, to the type of sheet that he had
8:45
Speaker 1: to cover himself with while he slept. It was described
8:47
Speaker 1: as something a little bit thicker than paper, but not
8:50
Speaker 1: strong enough to hold the weight of an individual. But
8:52
Speaker 1: there's nothing to tie onto. This is not like Maybury's cell,
8:55
Speaker 1: where Otis can pull the bars. There are no bars
8:58
Speaker 1: in this cell. There's no light fixture. There is nothing
9:02
Speaker 1: that you can tie onto if you had something to
9:05
Speaker 1: tie up and make a news. So you've got an
9:08
Speaker 1: impossible situation being sold to the public as a reality.
9:12
Speaker 1: His former cell mate said, there was no way this
9:15
Speaker 1: could happen. Now. The guards are supposed to be poking
9:18
Speaker 1: in looking in on him every couple of minutes. They
9:21
Speaker 1: claimed that he was no longer on suicide watch. And
9:24
Speaker 1: even under those rules, okay, even under the rules of
9:27
Speaker 1: non suicide watch, they were supposed to be viewed physically
9:30
Speaker 1: viewed every twenty minutes. So even under the most lenient
9:35
Speaker 1: of rules for guarding them in this particular cell, there
9:38
Speaker 1: was no way to actually commit suicide. Crime stories with
9:49
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Epstein's apparent suicide comes one day after thousands
9:54
Speaker 1: of pages of documents in a civil case between Virginia
9:57
Speaker 1: Goufray and Galaine Maxwell were unsealed. The court documents, Guffrey,
10:01
Speaker 1: an alleged victim of Epstein, accused Maxwell, Epstein's ex girlfriend,
10:05
Speaker 1: of directing her to have sex with several politically connected
10:08
Speaker 1: and financially powerful men when she was a miner. Guffrey
10:11
Speaker 1: was among the most vocal of Epstein's alleged victims. You know,
10:14
Speaker 1: before you know it, I'm being lent out to politicians
10:17
Speaker 1: and to academics and people that royalty. You're hearing our
10:22
Speaker 1: friend at CBS that was Molo Lenji. Wow, powerful people,
10:27
Speaker 1: president's ex president's government members, royalty, academics. But what about
10:35
Speaker 1: the victims in this case, and we know there are
10:38
Speaker 1: so many of them. There are just a lot of
10:40
Speaker 1: people that are yes, angry, and livid. Michelle Lecata says
10:43
Speaker 1: Epstein sexually assaulted her when she was just sixteen. She
10:47
Speaker 1: and other accusers are outraged he will not face a
10:50
Speaker 1: criminal trial. I really wanted justice. I really wanted him
10:54
Speaker 1: to take up for what he did and to be
10:57
Speaker 1: put in jail or prison and have to sit there
11:00
Speaker 1: and think about what it is he exactly did to
11:03
Speaker 1: so many people. Tonight, authorities are pledging to continue the investigation.
11:07
Speaker 1: Epstein's death comes less than twenty four hours after two
11:11
Speaker 1: thousand pages of new documents were made public. You're screaming
11:14
Speaker 1: on the inside, and you don't know how to let
11:16
Speaker 1: it come out. All you do is obey. Virginia Roberts
11:19
Speaker 1: guphrase twenty fifteen defamation suit was unsealed against Ghilain Maxwell,
11:23
Speaker 1: a long time Epstein associate. In deposition testimony, Guphrase says
11:27
Speaker 1: that Maxwell recruited her to be a teenage sex slave
11:30
Speaker 1: to Epstein give Jeffrey what he wants. A lot of
11:34
Speaker 1: this training came from Ghilin herself. Maxwell has not been
11:38
Speaker 1: charged with any crimes. She has consistently denied the allegations. Tonight,
11:42
Speaker 1: accusers are calling for those who enabled Epstein to be
11:45
Speaker 1: held accountable. You're hearing our friend at ABC. That was
11:48
Speaker 1: Stephanie Ramos. In the last hours the facts surrounding the
11:53
Speaker 1: abrupt end of the Jeffrey Epstein case. Epstein found dead
11:58
Speaker 1: in his jail celle questions swirling. The jail where the
12:03
Speaker 1: disgraced millionaire Jeffrey Epstein was found dead was quote short staffed.
12:10
Speaker 1: I want to circle back on all of those documents
12:12
Speaker 1: that were just released, thousands of pages of documents. What
12:16
Speaker 1: do we know about that Dave matt In the two
12:18
Speaker 1: thousand pages that were just released less than twenty four
12:21
Speaker 1: hours before his death, the documents talked, they named names.
12:26
Speaker 1: It was the document people had really been watching for.
12:28
Speaker 1: The document is between one of the victims, a girl
12:31
Speaker 1: who was just seventeen years old when she was recruited
12:35
Speaker 1: to give Epstein a massage that was blurred into and
12:39
Speaker 1: pushed by Maxwell, Epstein's girlfriend. That lawsuit was a couple
12:43
Speaker 1: of years ago. This paperwork, over two thousand pages, named
12:47
Speaker 1: names by this first victim. She's been the loudest one
12:50
Speaker 1: and has named names of people and how she was recruited,
12:53
Speaker 1: how she was abused, and how she was raped time
12:56
Speaker 1: and time again by some of the most famous people
12:58
Speaker 1: in the world of politics. And it was all released,
13:02
Speaker 1: like I said, less than twenty four hours before Epstein's
13:04
Speaker 1: dead body. Well, everybody's in dudo on this one because
13:07
Speaker 1: we now know there were claims that the Obama administration,
13:11
Speaker 1: in order to protect Clinton, made that secret deal in
13:15
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight that allowed him to plead guilty
13:17
Speaker 1: to one one tiny soliciting minor for prostitution. Okay, that's
13:24
Speaker 1: not true. The deal was actually created before Obama took
13:28
Speaker 1: office under Bush and then it went through during Obama. Okay,
13:34
Speaker 1: And it implicates These documents implicate Clinton. And there are
13:38
Speaker 1: photos of Trump partying with Epstein. I mean, you could
13:43
Speaker 1: put all these guys on the side of a mountain
13:44
Speaker 1: at Rushmore for Pete's sake. But long story short, nobody
13:49
Speaker 1: thinks that any of these people had a hand in
13:52
Speaker 1: Epstein's death. But what happened, And as it turns out,
13:56
Speaker 1: the photo was manipulated, shared by thousands, falsely claiming to
14:02
Speaker 1: show Epstein with Trump and the young Ivanka, the president's daughter.
14:07
Speaker 1: So this has gone through so many crazy while conspiracy theory,
14:12
Speaker 1: manipulations and distortions and false, false facts. It's hard to
14:17
Speaker 1: find the truth. But I know this, I don't care
14:20
Speaker 1: what some troll puts online or how they manipulate a photo.
14:23
Speaker 1: To Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert author of Blood Beneath
14:27
Speaker 1: My Feet Jackie here in the studio, first thing she says,
14:31
Speaker 1: and granted she's just a radio expert, but how do
14:34
Speaker 1: you commit suicide by hanging and end up on the
14:37
Speaker 1: floor in a fetal position. That's certainly food for thought,
14:40
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Yeah, it is. And you know, one of
14:43
Speaker 1: the things that's coming out of this information, they keep
14:46
Speaker 1: using the term hanging, hanging, hanging. I've seen this over
14:50
Speaker 1: and over and over again. And Nancy, I've worked a
14:52
Speaker 1: lot of jailhouse desks. As we're referred to them ass
14:55
Speaker 1: but in this particular sale, as Dave was talking about
14:58
Speaker 1: just a second ago, we have to keep it mind
15:00
Speaker 1: that all people at home. I don't know if you've
15:03
Speaker 1: if people at home, have ever visited the interior of
15:06
Speaker 1: a correctional facility. I've been in many. I hope not
15:09
Speaker 1: to Nancy, because they're they're a horrible place. But all
15:12
Speaker 1: of the surfaces in there are smooth. Even say, for instance,
15:16
Speaker 1: the spickets that the water comes out of. Many times
15:19
Speaker 1: those things are flushed with a wall so you can't
15:21
Speaker 1: tie off onto them. The beds themselves have smooth surfaces.
15:25
Speaker 1: It's not like a bed frame that you might think
15:27
Speaker 1: of in your home. And you know, that's what makes
15:30
Speaker 1: this this is what's such a head scratcher in this environment,
15:33
Speaker 1: that the environment is very, very stark, you know, when
15:37
Speaker 1: you go in there, so you think about how in
15:39
Speaker 1: the world could somebody physically do this. I was taking
15:42
Speaker 1: a look at the images of his body being rolled
15:45
Speaker 1: in when the fire department is bringing him into the
15:48
Speaker 1: emergency room, and Nancy, the only thing the first thing
15:51
Speaker 1: I thought was, well, maybe maybe he used his pants
15:55
Speaker 1: to hang himself with, because that's actually kind of common
15:58
Speaker 1: you know, they're where the orange scrub pants. You can
16:00
Speaker 1: make a ligature out of this, put around your neck
16:02
Speaker 1: and hang yourself with it on Nancy. In the image,
16:04
Speaker 1: he's wearing his scrub pants. Maybe he took his shirt.
16:07
Speaker 1: What looks like there's something there. I don't even see
16:10
Speaker 1: that they've cut the shirt away in order to do
16:13
Speaker 1: cardiac you know, resuscitation on him. So I'm I'm kind
16:18
Speaker 1: of left here thinking, well, what in the heck is
16:21
Speaker 1: going on? They did the autopsy yesterday, and I do
16:24
Speaker 1: know this Epstein's group that you know, kind of supports him,
16:28
Speaker 1: his attorneys and this sort of thing. They did hire
16:30
Speaker 1: doctor Michael Boden to come in and be present at
16:34
Speaker 1: the autopsy, as the Office of the CHEF Chief Medical
16:37
Speaker 1: Examiner for New York was actually doing the autopsy. So
16:40
Speaker 1: we're gonna have multiple eyes on the autopsy. They're saying
16:44
Speaker 1: that it's pending. We'll see what the toxicology says, because
16:47
Speaker 1: that's what they claim they're waiting on. We'll hold it
16:50
Speaker 1: right there. How come they can't look at him and
16:52
Speaker 1: say he hung himself? What's the hold up? Why do
16:56
Speaker 1: they keep saying quote apparent suicide. Why can't they come
16:59
Speaker 1: out and say suicide or no suicide, and I'm glad
17:02
Speaker 1: they've got Boden there. I'm glad they have two eyes
17:05
Speaker 1: on it. I hope the New York Medical Examiner doesn't
17:08
Speaker 1: take any offense to that. Not that I carried a Scott.
17:10
Speaker 1: This is the other thing, Nancy. Think back July twenty third,
17:14
Speaker 1: and this is what's really really troubling for me. There
17:17
Speaker 1: was an incident in the jail where they claimed again
17:20
Speaker 1: that some kind of harm had come to his neck,
17:22
Speaker 1: and they've never been really specific. I've heard the term
17:25
Speaker 1: hanging come out, and then I've heard this kind of
17:27
Speaker 1: generalized term of he sustained neck trauma. One of the
17:31
Speaker 1: things they would have been looking for at the autopsy
17:33
Speaker 1: is they would have been able to what we refer
17:36
Speaker 1: to in the autopsy suite as reflecting the neck. That
17:40
Speaker 1: means that you go down to the multiple layers of
17:42
Speaker 1: tissue and they'll look and they'll see if there was
17:45
Speaker 1: actually a pre existing injury on top of what he
17:48
Speaker 1: may have sustained over the weekend this past weekend, to
17:51
Speaker 1: see if that is actually resolving or healing, and then
17:53
Speaker 1: they'll go forward and look at the new autopsy results.
17:58
Speaker 1: Boden would have been there for this, as well as
18:00
Speaker 1: probably doctor Sampson, who's the chief medical examiner, who's highly
18:03
Speaker 1: respected for the City of New York. And they're gonna
18:06
Speaker 1: look at this, but there are so many physical indicators
18:10
Speaker 1: here that they have to take a look at very carefully.
18:13
Speaker 1: These autopsies take hours, Nancy. Everything is dissected to look
18:18
Speaker 1: and see if there's hemorrhage, if anybody has done harm
18:21
Speaker 1: to him. This is going to be very very thorough,
18:23
Speaker 1: and that's why they will have to go over every
18:25
Speaker 1: jot and tittle. Keep in mind, the toxicology results are
18:28
Speaker 1: just one small piece of this. They're gonna look at
18:30
Speaker 1: microscopic tissues, this sort of thing. I'm going to be
18:34
Speaker 1: very curious and I'd love to hear what Caring thinks
18:35
Speaker 1: about this relative to what type of medications he was on,
18:41
Speaker 1: to find out if he was being given his meds,
18:43
Speaker 1: if he's in a major state of depression, you know,
18:45
Speaker 1: all of these other factors that come into this. I
18:48
Speaker 1: want to know who the mental health people were that
18:49
Speaker 1: were taking care of him and who took him off
18:52
Speaker 1: of suicide watch. I am deadicated my life to crime victims,
19:02
Speaker 1: to giving a voice to those who can no longer
19:05
Speaker 1: speak for themselves. And that is why I work with
19:08
Speaker 1: Oxygen to create a new show. Injustice with Nancy Grace.
19:14
Speaker 1: We investigate cases that I believe never got it right,
19:18
Speaker 1: from wrongly accused to botched investigations, to unclear motives to
19:25
Speaker 1: unjust sentences. I don't just cover cases, I solve them.
19:31
Speaker 1: I put my heart and soul in it. Dig deep,
19:35
Speaker 1: look at the background, at the crime scene, at the families,
19:39
Speaker 1: at the witnesses. I look at every tiny detail because
19:43
Speaker 1: what matters to me is justice. Join us in our
19:47
Speaker 1: search for the truth. Injustice with Nancy Grace watch now
19:51
Speaker 1: on demand and every Saturday at six five Central only
19:55
Speaker 1: on Oxygen, the true network for crime Crime Stories with
20:04
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Epstein was inside the Special Housing Unit, a
20:11
Speaker 1: part of the Metropolitan Correctional Center, where he was held
20:14
Speaker 1: without bail for the last several weeks as he faced
20:17
Speaker 1: federal sex trafficking charges. Just two weeks ago, Epstein was
20:20
Speaker 1: found unconscious on the floor of his jail cell. Arrested
20:24
Speaker 1: on July sixth, Epstein pleaded not guilty to charges that
20:27
Speaker 1: he enticed, recruited, and molested dozens of young girls at
20:31
Speaker 1: his homes in New York and Florida. Epstein's federal charges
20:34
Speaker 1: came more than a decade after his legal team struck
20:37
Speaker 1: a secret deal with federal prosecutors in Florida, who allowed
20:40
Speaker 1: him to plead guilty to two lesser sex charges in
20:43
Speaker 1: state court. He served just thirteen months in a county
20:46
Speaker 1: jail and was granted work release. A trial date had
20:49
Speaker 1: been set for June of twenty twenty. We last saw
20:52
Speaker 1: Epstein in court on July thirty first, during a procedural
20:56
Speaker 1: hearing in the Southern District of New York. He appeared tired, deflated,
21:00
Speaker 1: and noticeably thinner. You're hearing our friends at CBS that
21:03
Speaker 1: was Mola Lingji Epstein dead? Who done it? You know,
21:09
Speaker 1: I can't break it down any more simply than that,
21:12
Speaker 1: and that is what is on everyone's mind, especially the
21:17
Speaker 1: fleet of then minor sex attack victims. Straight out to
21:22
Speaker 1: Steve Lampley, former detective author of Inside the Mind of
21:26
Speaker 1: a Serial Killer, Steve, I know you have analyzed this
21:31
Speaker 1: every which way, but loose weight in there. There's so
21:35
Speaker 1: many questions, so many unanswered questions. There are so many possibilities.
21:42
Speaker 1: How does like Joe said, it like Joseph said a
21:45
Speaker 1: while ago, how do you hang yourself in a cell
21:49
Speaker 1: that's smooth? And every person I've ever arrested there was suicidal. Really,
21:56
Speaker 1: this is a to the municipal level. Man said, this
21:58
Speaker 1: is not even a or the federal level. But every
22:03
Speaker 1: single one individual I arrested that was suicidal was brought
22:08
Speaker 1: into the jail strip, body cavity search, just to make sure,
22:14
Speaker 1: given a paper gown, put in a jail cell by
22:18
Speaker 1: themselves under twenty four seven camera observation. And I saw
22:23
Speaker 1: with a with a bad stainless still bad mounted. We
22:28
Speaker 1: can't be moved, you can't look anything to it, a
22:32
Speaker 1: stainless still put seat combination, like like Joseph's cy Mortgage said,
22:37
Speaker 1: with the spike up in the wall, you can't hang yourself. Nancy,
22:41
Speaker 1: you know another issue is Epstein himself, according to reports,
22:47
Speaker 1: claimed someone tried to kill him before he died. What
22:54
Speaker 1: do we know about that, Dave? Then, well we know
22:57
Speaker 1: is what we've already mentioned about the attack on the
22:59
Speaker 1: twenty twenty fourth of July, and he claimed then wait
23:04
Speaker 1: a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. That was
23:06
Speaker 1: deemed well, it was reported as a suicide attempt and
23:10
Speaker 1: that's why he went on suicide watch. It was after
23:12
Speaker 1: that just heard you say attack go ahead, Yes, ma'am,
23:15
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. It was after that alleged suicide attempt around
23:19
Speaker 1: the twenty fourth, when he was put on suicide watch
23:21
Speaker 1: that he alluded to that he'd actually told his cellmate
23:24
Speaker 1: and maybe a few others were not sure, but at
23:27
Speaker 1: least his cellmate that somebody had tried to kill him.
23:31
Speaker 1: He thought somebody was trying to hurt him. Now, think
23:34
Speaker 1: about this, Nancy, He was supposed to have a cellmate
23:36
Speaker 1: the entire time, even after he came off suicide watch.
23:40
Speaker 1: That the warden made that decision, by the way, the
23:43
Speaker 1: warden himself moved him off suicide watch, and then hours
23:47
Speaker 1: before his body was found, his roommate was moved out
23:51
Speaker 1: of the cell without any kind of justification and without
23:54
Speaker 1: any warning. Okay, I want to go through that again
23:56
Speaker 1: because the big question right now, why wasn't team more
24:00
Speaker 1: closely monitored, especially given his apparent suicide attempt just twelve
24:08
Speaker 1: days prior. And Joseph Scott Morgan, you've dealt with a
24:12
Speaker 1: lot of gelhouse deaths. What can you tell me about
24:17
Speaker 1: suicide Watch? I was stunned to find out he was
24:19
Speaker 1: taken off watch. Well, ideally, yeah, I was too, Nancy,
24:23
Speaker 1: ideally would suicide Watch. First off, at the federal level
24:28
Speaker 1: like this, they're supposed to have camera monitoring that's taking
24:32
Speaker 1: place within the cell cell, a tiny camera that is
24:37
Speaker 1: what referred to. It's like a fish eye camera that's
24:40
Speaker 1: embedded in the ceiling that's smoothed through the surface and
24:43
Speaker 1: you can see in. Well, first off, they're saying that
24:46
Speaker 1: there was no camera that was functioning, which is just
24:49
Speaker 1: an absolute shock to me. And since he was no
24:52
Speaker 1: longer on Suicide Watch, he was in a cell that
24:55
Speaker 1: was being monitored externally, so even the external camera wasn't
24:59
Speaker 1: working on this, which again is a huge red flag
25:02
Speaker 1: for me. Are you don't aren't you convinced as I am,
25:06
Speaker 1: that they do have camera surveillance in the cells. I mean,
25:10
Speaker 1: you can't put a member of al Qaeda in a
25:14
Speaker 1: jail cell without a camera, and ideally you would hope
25:18
Speaker 1: that they would. But from what I am hearing right now,
25:22
Speaker 1: there is no video surveillance of the interior of his cell.
25:27
Speaker 1: And I have also heard that the camera was quote
25:31
Speaker 1: unquote big air quotes here not functioning. Outside the cell,
25:35
Speaker 1: and that is very troubling to me. With suicide Watch
25:40
Speaker 1: in particular, many times you're issued what's called a suicide blanket,
25:45
Speaker 1: which is very very thick. It's not something you can
25:48
Speaker 1: if people will just imagine trying to fashion a rope
25:51
Speaker 1: out of a sheet or a blanket. You can't do
25:54
Speaker 1: this with a suicide blanket. It provides warmth, but you
25:58
Speaker 1: can't manipulate lated. It's very very thick. Also, in suicide situations,
26:04
Speaker 1: they will put you in like a paper gown. Okay,
26:10
Speaker 1: that is not that's not sufficient again to make a
26:14
Speaker 1: ligature out of. And in some cases where people are
26:17
Speaker 1: severely like just raging, they'll take them and they'll put
26:21
Speaker 1: them in. It's hard to describe. People can kind of
26:24
Speaker 1: look this up online, but it's it's like a it's
26:28
Speaker 1: a it's a gown that covers the body that is
26:31
Speaker 1: very very rigid and hard. It almost looks quilted. You
26:35
Speaker 1: can't manipulate this thing. So aside from that, you have
26:40
Speaker 1: to have guards that are walking the post that a
26:43
Speaker 1: physically eyes one along with the camera. You'll you'll actually
26:46
Speaker 1: have somebody that will pass by the door walking their
26:50
Speaker 1: post and they'll look in the porthole to physically see
26:54
Speaker 1: that patient or prisoner inside of that suicide watch area.
26:58
Speaker 1: It's a specific area that set aside for this specific
27:03
Speaker 1: reason because there's a lot of people that are troubled
27:05
Speaker 1: that go to jail, that have mental issues, so they
27:09
Speaker 1: have to have a specific area for this. He wasn't
27:11
Speaker 1: in this area. He wasn't in this area. And what's
27:15
Speaker 1: so striking is a fact that back what happened July third,
27:19
Speaker 1: How in the world, How in the world can you
27:22
Speaker 1: take this golf of suicide watch. It just it absolutely
27:26
Speaker 1: blows my mind in this particular case, because there's so
27:30
Speaker 1: much riding on this case. So this is what we know.
27:34
Speaker 1: The warden himself took Epstein off suicide watch hours before
27:39
Speaker 1: the alleged suicide. His roommate was moved out of his
27:43
Speaker 1: jail cell. We know that there was no function camera
27:47
Speaker 1: in the jail cell and apparently the camera out and
27:50
Speaker 1: what we would call the hallway was quote not functioning.
27:55
Speaker 1: What about guards. Aren't they supposed to be monitoring what's
28:00
Speaker 1: happening in the jail cell. What happened to them? How
28:04
Speaker 1: is it so coincidentally that everything isn't working or doesn't
28:11
Speaker 1: happen according to SOP standard operating procedure at the moment,
28:15
Speaker 1: Epstein commits suicide crime stories with Nancy Grace. Shortly after
28:32
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein was found dead in his jail cell, President
28:36
Speaker 1: Trump retweeted this video from a conservative commentator for some
28:40
Speaker 1: odd reason, people that have information on the Clinton's end
28:45
Speaker 1: up dead, and they usually die from suicide. Former President
28:49
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton was also once friendly with Epstein. But there
28:52
Speaker 1: is no evidence at all to support the conspiracy theory
28:55
Speaker 1: the president is fueling. Why did the President then retweet
28:59
Speaker 1: that Clinton suggestion? I think the President just wants everything
29:04
Speaker 1: to be investigated it. In a statement to Clinton spokesman said,
29:07
Speaker 1: the suggestion that the Clintons were involved is ridiculous and
29:10
Speaker 1: of course not true. You're hearing our friends at CBS
29:14
Speaker 1: News that was Ben Tracy. Theories abounding, but everyone in
29:19
Speaker 1: their gut is saying who did it? Because, as Jackie
29:22
Speaker 1: here in the studio points out, she's right, the warden, yes,
29:26
Speaker 1: took Epstein off suicide Watch, but his shrink that had
29:30
Speaker 1: been treating him advise the warden to take him off
29:35
Speaker 1: suicide Watch. So the warden did, and I mean follow
29:42
Speaker 1: that line of thought. Through to its logical conclusion. If
29:46
Speaker 1: the shrink thinks he should be taken off suicide watch,
29:52
Speaker 1: does that mean he most likely did not commit suicide.
29:56
Speaker 1: His frame of mind was not suicide. Let me understand this,
30:01
Speaker 1: Dave Matt. You're telling me that the warden takes him
30:04
Speaker 1: off suicide watch. Did you say that his cellmate was
30:09
Speaker 1: moved out? How many hours before the apparent suicide? Nine
30:13
Speaker 1: hours before his body was found? His cellmate was actually
30:18
Speaker 1: moved out without any kind of explanation whatsoever. And you're
30:22
Speaker 1: saying there's no functioning camera in the jail cell and
30:26
Speaker 1: the one out in for lack of a better word,
30:28
Speaker 1: the hallway was not working. What about manual walk buys?
30:33
Speaker 1: Aren't they supposed to be walking by every thirty minutes
30:36
Speaker 1: or less? Yes, it's in. The amazing part about this, Nancy,
30:40
Speaker 1: is the excuse that they are giving about the man
30:43
Speaker 1: the guards walking past is that they claimed there were
30:46
Speaker 1: two guards assigned to this block that we're supposed to
30:50
Speaker 1: be patrolling. But you know, their excuse has been, well,
30:52
Speaker 1: they're working a lot of overtime. One of the guards
30:55
Speaker 1: had been on for five straight days and another guy
30:58
Speaker 1: was working overtime, and they didn't do their job. Apparently okay.
31:02
Speaker 1: These guards were to be looking in on Epstein and
31:06
Speaker 1: the other inmates cell every thirty minutes, but did not
31:10
Speaker 1: follow procedure, one guard whining it was his fifth day
31:14
Speaker 1: of overtime, all right, the second that he was forced
31:17
Speaker 1: to work overtime. There's no video of the moment he
31:21
Speaker 1: died because cameras do not point into the inmates cells.
31:25
Speaker 1: He had been removed from suicide Watch at the time
31:28
Speaker 1: of his death. Ed has sparked wide spread anger. We've
31:34
Speaker 1: all seen the photos of Epstein's body being willed into
31:36
Speaker 1: a hospital moments before he's pronounced dead. He was wearing
31:40
Speaker 1: his shirt and pants, So what did he hang himself with.
31:45
Speaker 1: He's wearing that orange jumpsuit and what appears to be
31:48
Speaker 1: a brace around his neck as he is pushed on
31:51
Speaker 1: a gurney into New York's Presbyterian Lower Manhattan Hospital, and
31:57
Speaker 1: one image, paramedics looked like they're trying to revive him.
32:02
Speaker 1: According to The Washington Post, Epstein had been left in
32:05
Speaker 1: himself for hours alone, when the guards were supposed to
32:09
Speaker 1: be looking in on him every half hour. At the least.
32:13
Speaker 1: No one understands why the cellmate was transferred. Nothing is
32:21
Speaker 1: really fitting together. Now we know Michael Biden, who was
32:26
Speaker 1: the city's chief medical examiners, has been called in to
32:30
Speaker 1: witness the autopsy. I don't understand what the hold up is,
32:36
Speaker 1: but I know this, the victims may still have a
32:42
Speaker 1: course of action. And what about Gillan Maxwell? What's the
32:47
Speaker 1: story with her? Did she facilitate the attacks on young girls?
32:54
Speaker 1: Now we know Epstein suicide coas just twenty four hours
32:56
Speaker 1: after court documents implicating very powerful players were unsealed. Is
33:02
Speaker 1: the timing of his death suspicious? What about it? Ashley
33:07
Speaker 1: Wilcott Ashley Wilcott joining me judge, trial lawyer. You can
33:12
Speaker 1: find her at Ashley Wilcot dot com. I know the
33:16
Speaker 1: pseudo intellectuals are poo pooing any theory but suicide. But
33:22
Speaker 1: the timing doesn't lie, Ashley. Is it suspicious? Absolutely? All
33:27
Speaker 1: of these things together a suspicious. Let me tell you
33:30
Speaker 1: in my experience, V on the bench, and you have
33:32
Speaker 1: one coincidence, like you always put up, point out Nancy,
33:35
Speaker 1: he really a coincidence. But when you have these many
33:38
Speaker 1: things adding up to it doesn't smell right. It doesn't
33:41
Speaker 1: pass the smell test. It's absolutely suspicious. I do not
33:45
Speaker 1: believe that it was a simple suicide. Again, remember, you know,
33:49
Speaker 1: a jail is a microcosm of our society, So it's
33:52
Speaker 1: not as if it's perfectly run and all of the
33:56
Speaker 1: safeguards are in place. Instead, rather, there are human that
34:00
Speaker 1: are there that will do whatever they need to do
34:03
Speaker 1: to survive or choose not to survive. I have no
34:06
Speaker 1: doubt that he it was either a murder that he
34:10
Speaker 1: paid people off to do what he wanted to do.
34:13
Speaker 1: There is so much more to this story. It is
34:16
Speaker 1: past suspicious, and it's gonna go much much deeper than
34:19
Speaker 1: any of us can anticipate because guess what, there are
34:22
Speaker 1: people responsible involved. I have no doubt, and that will
34:26
Speaker 1: come to light with an investigation. Well, I can tell
34:29
Speaker 1: you this much. It ain't over yet. Take a listen
34:32
Speaker 1: to NBC's Kathy park Well. Epstein's death marks the end
34:35
Speaker 1: of the criminal case against him. Today, the US attorney
34:38
Speaker 1: said the investigation remains ongoing. Legal experts citing longtime Epstein
34:43
Speaker 1: associates like Gallaine Maxwell, who has not been charged, as
34:48
Speaker 1: possible focal points. Given statements made in documents just made public,
34:52
Speaker 1: Those people may be investigated by the federal government, and
34:57
Speaker 1: anything that they lawfully found in terms of documents at
35:00
Speaker 1: Epstein's home can be used in additional government investigations. Epstein's
35:06
Speaker 1: alleged victims can also continue with civil lawsuits against the
35:10
Speaker 1: financier's estate. I am calling today on behalf of his victims,
35:15
Speaker 1: for the administrator of his estate to freeze all of
35:19
Speaker 1: his assets and not disperse them civil cases. Perhaps a
35:23
Speaker 1: meager consolation to the many women who hope to see
35:27
Speaker 1: Epstein have his day in court. I want you to
35:29
Speaker 1: take a listen to NBC reporter Stephanie Gospe. Then underage
35:35
Speaker 1: girls say they were lured by the cash. My mother
35:39
Speaker 1: was on drugs at the time and she can have
35:43
Speaker 1: provide for me, and I was pretty much homeless fromer.
35:46
Speaker 1: Palm Beach Police Chief Michael Ryders says many of the
35:49
Speaker 1: girls didn't know each other but had the same story.
35:52
Speaker 1: We believe that this would end up in a prosecution
35:55
Speaker 1: that would incarcerate mister Epstein for the remainder of his life.
35:59
Speaker 1: Federal prosecutors even had a fifty three page indictment ready
36:03
Speaker 1: to go, according to a court filing. But Epstein, a
36:06
Speaker 1: hedge fund manager who famously piled around with Donald Trump,
36:10
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton, and Prince Andrew never faced those serious charges. Instead,
36:15
Speaker 1: a plea deal was struck. He pleaded guilty to two
36:18
Speaker 1: counts related to solicitation of prostitution and only served thirteen
36:23
Speaker 1: months in a county jail. You're hearing our France, Stephanie Goskett,
36:27
Speaker 1: NBC It a over yet, Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing
36:34
Speaker 1: off goodbye friend