Latest / Between the Headlines: Columbus / Two Friends, One Vision: Reviving Burns Bottom the Columbus Way

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Two Friends, One Vision: Reviving Burns Bottom the Columbus Way · Between the Headlines: Columbus

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: This is Between the Headlines.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: One of our hosts of Between the Headlines is the managing editor of our newsroom.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Typically we try to keep news and opinions separate, but reporters have a unique insight into the workings of local government and their analysis can be helpful for readers and listeners.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: The dispatch remains committed to journalistic integrity and our reporting will always reflect that.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: And now Between the Headlines.
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: This week on Between the Headlines, burns Bottom will no longer be the bonehole of Columbus as the CRA and the Friendly City are shaking hands.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: We've got Nick and we've got Saunders in here to talk about Parkview Columbus, and then Officer Harris of the Columbus Police has deprived the department of his company and we've got thoughts on that.
• 1:04
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• 1:54
  Speaker 3: This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, the locally owned bank that makes decisions right here at home, by people who understand the needs of our community.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: That means local decisions, local support and folks who care.
• 2:06
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• 2:29
  Speaker 3: We are pleased to have in the studio today Mr Nick Parrish and Mr Saunders Ramsey, who are partners of Friendly City Development.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: Fellas, it's been a while and we are glad to have y'all in here today, because we know that the dark side of no, I don't want to say dark side, I mean the bright sides in front of us.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: We don't have to mention the backs we are glad to have y'all in the studio today, because we are getting ready to clean up a mess that has been a long time in the making, so thanks for coming in today.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I want to start here Now.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: You guys are the development group looking to purchase and redevelop Burns Bottom.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Before we get into that, how did you guys come together to form this development group?
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: I think it starts way before the development group was formed.
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: Honestly, me being in civil engineering and Nick being in dirt construction, we, early in our I guess you could say local careers being Starville and Columbus, we found a pretty interesting relationship in that an engineer that appreciates a contractor and a contractor that appreciates an engineer and I don't know.
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: It's been more of a friendship than a partnership, I would say.
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: I don't know if you want to build on that.
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: We built a lot of projects together early in our local careers.
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: I mean, we've known each other for almost a decade and a half at this point, but our background was building projects together when you were at Neal Schaefer.
• 4:03
  Speaker 5: For years, and my early years at Burns, we worked on projects together and found creative solutions and then, just as time has gone on, we've had this knack for hearing each other out and hearing the other side.
• 4:14
  Speaker 5: So when this opportunity came up, I was looking for developers to come and take the project on.
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: Just so I had a, so Burns Dirt had a job to build right and I called Saunders and he said why don't we just do that ourselves?
• 4:27
  Speaker 5: And we started looking at it and said yeah we know everything that needs to go into this and we know how this works.
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: And then we got to exercise our muscles of that creative problem solving that we've always been good at.
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: It was pretty awesome, you know, I had heard about it but, not in any detail, and so when he sent me over the RFP package, there was a lot of familiar names on it, a lot of familiar sketches, a lot of familiar colors, and you know Mike Thompson.
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: Thompson Placemaking was responsible for projects I had done in Starkville and he and I do a lot of work together both personally.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, Neal Schaefer has its fingerprints all over the studio, Correct.
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: and then I saw the grading plans and layouts that Kevin Stafford and his team had done, and then it just was very familiar.
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: So we weren't outsiders, we were definitely locals that appreciate the professionals that had put the package together, and so it kind of intrigued me.
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: So I just said, hey, nick, let's give it a shot.
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: And I was sitting in the lobby of a hotel in New Orleans and was just thrilled for the opportunity to take it to the next step.
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Well, y'all are friends with each other and you're going to be great friends with this community if you can turn it around.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking back.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: Look at this place Back in the 90s.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: It was just totally crime-ridden.
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: I remember this, zach, when I was a kid you could drive on the freeway and look off to the right and there was like these buffalo or bison, I don't know which one.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: You could look down there in that bottom.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: They were there and they were not happy and and the whole place was just a mess.
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: And now it's all leveled out.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: What can we look forward to, guys?
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: well, let me start with kudos to somebody I don't know who y'all want to give credit for, but you know, through this you'll hear us talk a lot about community building and about safety and about architecture and all the things that make a place special.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: But you'll also hear us talk about a traditional neighborhood, which is what this is.
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: It needs a few things to succeed and it needs.
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: It needs open space, it needs walkable shopping, it needs shade down here in the Mississippi heat, and a lot of that already is there.
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: So, you know, just kudos to the soccer complex and what it's done, and preserving the park space around the waterways complex and what it's done and preserving the park space around the waterways.
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: And so when I look at it, not as a local member, but just as a developer, those are things we would normally have to build, and Columbus has already done it.
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: So I know it's kind of easy to look at what it has been or fearful what it might not ever be, but there's also a lot of good things that are already there, man.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: That that's honestly what makes it so attractive well, just for context here, what we're talking about.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: We're talking about uh, right beside the soccer complex, between third and fourth street uh north and between second and seventh uh north avenue north.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: This is.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: You know, 10 years ago Columbus Redevelopment Authority tried to take this on.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: They used some bond money to buy and demolish dilapidated lots.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: I think they ended up with something like 75-ish, 77-ish.
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: I think it's 77.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's just been a very long process for them to try to get it even to here.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: Before we talk about what has to happen next.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: What is the end game?
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Explain park view to me, uh, in, in terms of the parameters of what y'all want to bring like, I think something like 50 single family homes and some shopping yeah, so.
• 8:20
  Speaker 5: So one one thing that should be said in that is that that mix of things is always up for change.
• 8:26
  Speaker 5: It all depends on what people demand.
• 8:28
  Speaker 5: Right now we have that set out at roughly 50 single-family homes and we have some room that we feel that a multifamily product could go in there whether it's townhomes or something like that but that also easily could become more single-family homes if we feel like that's what the market demands, also easily could become more single family homes if we feel like that's what the market demands.
• 8:47
  Speaker 5: But there's also room for, we think, prime commercial along Fifth Street or even on the south end of that near Munson and Brothers right.
• 8:55
  Speaker 5: And so we have a master plan that we know that single family homes are going to be a major part of it, probably roughly two-thirds of the space.
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: But if we get out there and we feel we have good feedback from the community that we need more rentals or we need more single-family or there is commercial demand, then that's the way we'll change that.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Final third Sure, but talking about the starting with the single-family home, what are we talking about, size-wise and price-point-wise for that?
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, that's the beautiful thing about traditional neighborhoods and it's honestly?
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: I'm going to keep giving kudos to Columbus because I don't think you guys give yourself enough kudos is you know, one thing you guys are so good or have been so good at is appreciating solid architecture and appreciating high-character and appreciate high character single family homes Not new, not last year or last decade, but for many, many, many years.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: And so in some communities you have to introduce this idea.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: It's like let's try this In Columbus.
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: It's like let's just do what we used to do.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean.
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: So when you talk about sizes, there's no size restriction.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: You know if you want a big home or a small home, it's welcome here.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: We're more concerned about the character of the home.
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: We're more concerned about the way you interact with your neighbor, providing front porches so that we can bring back the social interactions that make us all appreciate each other or tolerate each other, whichever one you want to say but all that's really, really important.
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: Social gathering spaces are important, unforced gathering.
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: Nick mentioned in the press release that he and his brother play soccer in the park or we run in the park or we walk in the park.
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: Those social interactions are so important and so just allowing that to occur freely rather than forcing it I think that's what Parkview is going to be about is honestly rewinding the clock a little bit and just keep doing what you've done in the past.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Well, but I mean okay, but you're going to sell them for something, yeah, so what are y'all looking at?
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: That's to be determined.
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: We're not going to get into the in this chat.
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: We're not going to know enough information because there's still a lot of planning to be wrapped up, a lot of construction to happen.
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: So until we know what's really going to be spent by either the CRA or ourselves, it's hard to set a price point.
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: That being said, I actually just received a text message from somebody who read the news today, which I didn't have a chance to read it yet, and there's interest there and that's exciting, and we and I told this person that we will offer introductory encouragement, if you will.
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: So there'll be some price points right out of the gate that are pretty attractive in my opinion.
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: One thing I will say maybe that helps answer your question a little bit too, and Saunders can probably paint more color to this is that architectural character that Columbus has To his point.
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: I live in a 125-year-old home on Southside right, and so when my neighbors ask what are things going to look like?
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: They're going to look like our homes that exist here, and so we are making a very much of a point to match that old style of architecture, traditional architecture that's in Columbus, and so I think that that will drive some of what the style of the homes are and the sizes that more than the price point.
• 12:17
  Speaker 5: Maybe.
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: That's a conversation and that feels good and it sounds good, but it also has real monetary value, right, right Is you know, we as human beings get in this pattern of doing the latest coolest thing, and it doesn't stay cool in the latest very long.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: Right, but what has stood the test of time is the historical traditional architecture that Columbus has been known for.
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: You look at Natchez, you look at Vicksburg, you look at New Orleans, and that's where we're going to pull our inspiration from Right.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: But the great thing about Columbus, you don't have to look very far, just ride down, next drive.
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean.
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: And so when you hear kind of traditional or historic or iconic and all these terms, we'll throw around.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: Another word is just timeless.
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: It never got old, it's withstood the test of time.
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: Your values of your property are going to hold because they're not going to go out of style, and so there's real monetary value to these kind of punchlines or tag words.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I've been doing a little bit of reading about the building economy right now.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: And I've been doing a little bit of reading about the building economy right now and I've been hearing people talk about.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: You know, it takes $140 a square foot to build something, and that's not what houses are bringing when they sell.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Is that something that y'all are concerned about?
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: You know, taking a bath on these houses.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: So no, because that's not the business we're in.
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: Honestly, we want to find people that like what we're doing, like the product that we're putting on the ground.
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: When I say product, I don't even mean house, I mean the walkability, the streetscape, the place we're creating, and I believe that they'll purchase the lot.
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: They'll build a home to their liking that they can afford right, whatever scale that might be.
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: They'll build a home to their liking that they can afford right, whatever scale that might be, and through the unique characteristics, I believe that the values will be retained.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: So I'm not super, I don't want to sound arrogant or dismissive or anything like that, but I believe the market kind of takes care of itself.
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: I don't think we're going to enter the market at a high-end premium rate that nobody can touch or want to touch, right?
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: I mean, let's be honest, guys, we're here to help Columbus, not just make money right, and so part of that is working with local tradesmen, local banks, local mortgages, mortgage companies, local providers.
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: It's like we want Columbus to be part of this with us if that makes sense.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: Let me ask you about the product.
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: You've mentioned that word a few times.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: You've also mentioned the older architecture.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Is this restrictive or, in a sense, does this make way for any type of nightlife out there?
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, I know, like on Fifth Street, you've got string lights and people can walk around after dark, where it's cooler, more enjoyable.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: Okay, take this down the hill over there.
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: What are we looking at?
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: Are we going to see anything like let me throw this out there murals, public art, maybe some water features, things that are not a part of the house, lots proper.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm interested in.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: Is the look of the thing, the vibe.
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't know, I think it's a bit early to maybe get in specific items, but I do believe, working with Neil Shafer and Mike Thompson and others, getting the streetscape correct, getting the green space correct, getting the green space correct the sidewalks will provide even the light standard light poles if you will creating a safe and vibrant environment.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: Guys, it's going to sound really nerdy but coming from an engineer, maybe you'll appreciate it.
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: But the way we design our street alone can change the character of a neighborhood.
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: You know, the elevation of the homes brings a built-in safety net, if you will, Above the flood plain.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: Well, yes, not just safe from flood.
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: But there guys, we'll follow a pattern book that you can't imagine how many, how much thought has gone into it.
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: But just literally the elevation of a home related to the sidewalk.
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: You know you don't see many of the older homes that don't have a front porch.
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: That has a lot of reasons.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: Shade community people feel odd walking up a set of steps into your property right.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: So getting the street right, getting the sidewalks right, getting the landscaping right, getting the porches right, all of that stuff creates the vibrancy you're talking about.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: There's not a lot of because of the city block setup.
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: There's not a lot of um public space, if you will, other than some green spaces will create.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: So maybe not necessarily something that's going to say, hey, why don't we walk a block down and go through park view just to?
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: well see the koi pond.
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: David wants to know if he can build the neighborhood pool, believe me yeah um, you know, and again just kind of going back to the kudos, a lot of that's there.
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: I mean, that is the park that already exists and you know, I think that we're going to create an iconic product that people want to walk through the same reasons that they want to walk through your iconic neighborhoods.
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I do.
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: One thing to that point is we do have a lot of that already existing there with the park, right, but if you look at the park um, let's, let's address that the street lighting, then the park.
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: There's a mix of lighting like let's pick apart this one.
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: What's one aspect like different colors of lighting?
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: or different types of fixtures is what I want to address that if you walk through um any part of the existing neighborhoods of Columbus, whether it's South side or East Columbus or North side, you have this mix of different types of fixtures and lots of them.
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: There's overhanging fixtures over the street right that are very municipal type lighting fixtures.
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: We're going to have more residential type lighting fixtures, that's right, and so that type of stuff will give it much more of a neighborhood type feel.
• 18:22
  Speaker 5: But also one thing I think that's important is that we're not trying to build a subdivision.
• 18:27
  Speaker 5: We're not trying to build a place where people go and are secluded to the intent.
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: One of the intents here is that people exist downtown.
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: Right, and I think you'll hear me particularly talk about this, or if you talk to my brothers that we live downtown, we like to walk to dinner, we like to walk to our friend's house, we like to go walk to the park and play soccer and play pickup, whatever it is right.
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: But if you have 50 homes plus, you know, townhomes or more single family, you're going to have more people that live in downtown and exist in downtown.
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: So the intent is not so much that we're trying to build this place that people want to go to and going to go and hey, let's go walk through Parkview.
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: I think there will be beautiful homes and people will do that.
• 19:11
  Speaker 5: But remember that the intent is that people spend time in their community.
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: They spend time going to Zachary's, they spend time going to Huck's.
• 19:18
  Speaker 5: They spend time going to Zachary's.
• 19:19
  Speaker 5: They spend time going to.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Huck's.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: They spend time going to the shops on Main Street.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: And the Riverwalk.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: The Riverwalk, that's right.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: So it's beautiful, it's open, it's got buried utilities and, by the way, it has excellent cell phone service, thanks to our friends at AT&T right Amen.
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: And I parked it downtown just to kind of do it.
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: And that's what I was thinking.
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: Nick is just, you know, when you have 50 to 60 houses within walking distance of downtown just.
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: But we're a success if we help your existing businesses and your existing shops.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: Is Grandpa Hull going to agree with that?
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: So I'm just I'm really excited about the vibrancy that this could add to the downtown area and it checks.
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: So if you just look at like Planning, you know it checks so many boxes just connected to the community.
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: We're not encouraging sprawl, we're densifying downtown, we're we're, you know, encouraging outdoor life.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: Like it just checks so many boxes and I think that's why it's so exciting.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: You mentioned Mike Thompson.
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: Talk a little bit about his architecture and how that's going to make its way into this.
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: You know Mike understands the way people used to live and I mentioned front porches and shade.
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: It goes so much further than that.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: Why are our windows designed the way they were?
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: Why are our fences located where they're located?
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: Or why are fences located where they're located?
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: You know he understands why people love what they love, if that makes sense, and the timeless piece that I mentioned as well.
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: Why do courtyards face east?
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: You know, because it's hot.
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: It's hot and so just understanding the way people interact with their homes and the way that the community interacts with their homes, and putting your bright spots forward, meaning the elevation of your home, your front porch and your people, and turning the bad spots backwards Our vehicles, our garage doors, our trash.
• 21:34
  Speaker 4: It needs to be, it needs to be out of sight and out of mind.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: So if you're walking down the street you mentioned earlier and feeling like this place is special, what you're not going to do is bump into a car parked over the sidewalk and trip over a trash can, because all that stuff's going to be out of sight, out of mind, and that's what Mike really understands.
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: It is important to get trim details right and color selections right and brick details, but that's not the most important thing, the most important thing is understanding how we interact with our home and interact with our neighbors.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: You talked about people interested in the home part of it Saunders, but how much interest have y'all gotten any nibbles have y'all gotten on the commercial side as part of the mixed use?
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: We have not.
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: We have not breached that yet.
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: We've had some conversations and we have some ideas of the direction we would like for it to go.
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: But we have to remember that the residential will create that demand, right.
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: The people that live there will create the demographic that if a retailer or a dining establishment wants to open up there, they're going to want to know who lives there, right.
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: And so I think that the residential will create the demand for the commercial, and so we can't go in here and try to necessarily handpick that we're going to put restaurant A in this commercial lot or this in commercial lot B, sure, because that may be in conflict with the people that are, you know, building and buying that.
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: So that will be a part that comes second, and I don't think that you're going to see all of that fill up in day one, and it shouldn't, and I don't think that's best for our community for us to just go in there and demand.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: This is what's going to happen.
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: I actually think that we will get things that we want more, if we wait.
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: And so there's even a portion of this that we think we'll just hold on till late, until a lot of rooftops are up, because we think that we will be something better for the community if we wait till later.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: But that being said, zach, if somebody wants to build a commercial development at Park View, we're happy to sit down and talk to him tomorrow.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, like I said, we do know, we do have an idea of what we think will be, successful there, right um, but a lot of that can change and tweak depending on how that goes so the the price points here, you guys have agreed to pay, I think, 800 000 for burns bottom uh proper, uh, those blocks that we talked about.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: But there's another, uh, several lots I think, the old, uh holiday chevron light, the fat light, what they call it, and then six smaller lights behind it that at fifth and fifth, that's that y'all have an exclusive option for four and a half years to uh execute, uh, to get that for000.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: What went into that part of the deal and what are y'all envisioning for that space and what would result in y'all executing that option or maybe not?
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: down the line Sure.
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: So one thing I do want to clarify because of the descriptions that everybody's throwing around about what is in that option is I I think unfairly muddies the waters.
• 24:41
  Speaker 5: Just imagine where the service station is at and there's the car dealership that's there.
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: It's essentially all that land that's surrounding the car dealership and the Chevron.
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: It's that block.
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: I'm characterizing it the way that they look Sure.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: Is the church a part of this?
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: No, the church is not part of it, it's just the.
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: If you drive down there, it's just the blank space that is there surrounding the car lot.
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: So it's that block um.
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: It is chopped up into a bunch of little pieces and so that's why it gets described that way.
• 25:11
  Speaker 5: But it is that block um, so that is um.
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: You know the.
• 25:18
  Speaker 5: The reason for that option being structured the way that it is is we felt when we went into this.
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: We sat down and had a very purposeful conversation with the CRA and said how do you want to win?
• 25:29
  Speaker 5: What does a win look like for you?
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: We can tell you what a win looks like for us, but what does a win look like for you?
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: And we needed to construct that deal in a way so that they, ideally here, have capital to go do future projects.
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: That's a win for the redevelopment authority is to be able to easily get into other projects.
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: So that's constructed in that way that now we can purchase property, they can get this project going and hopefully we can market and sell that and they can have additional capital to go into other projects.
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: The terms of that deal are there in that place so that we can control the trajectory of the neighborhood for a while Right and so that hopefully we can marry up a commercial product, because that is ideal.
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: I think we'd all love to see a commercial product right there with the Magnolia Bowl.
• 26:18
  Speaker 5: I've heard people describe that as this like future gateway into the city from the 45 corridor, and I think we'd all love to see that whole intersection really polished up.
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: And so, with this neighborhood coming in, we do want to be able to control and see what's going to come in and pair well with the housing.
• 26:36
  Speaker 5: So we all discussed it, said hey, yes, we're going to build this Commercial may take longer.
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: We can't control the economy.
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: In two years there may not be a whole lot of commercial, you know, being built, but we wanted to be able to leverage and have that control and that's why there's that exclusive option on it, right?
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: We hope, as the product comes up, that somebody that fits this unique mold you know wants that property.
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: So it not that it's not important.
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: It's super important to the deal, but it's not something we worry about a lot either.
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: Either the houses are going to come up and that unique customer is going to show up and say I want to build right here, or the houses go up.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: It still looks amazing.
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: The the option expires and the city's or CRA is able to say hey, then they start recruiting.
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: So either we're recruiting businesses or CRA's recruiting businesses.
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: At the end of the day, fifth street improves, columbus gets better and and we all win.
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: So it's to me it's.
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: It's almost like the property is in the deal.
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: So you know what I mean.
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: We're marketing it from day one.
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: That's right, we're all on the same page.
• 27:43
  Speaker 5: We're taking ownership of it day one in our minds and we're trying to find some play there.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Well, talking about what has to be done at that site between now and when y'all officially take ownership of any of it, you've got that $5.2 million that the CRA is going to use there.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I talked to Kevin Stafford last night.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: He was talking about the underground utilities, talking about the lighting, talking about street curb gutter, talking about leveling it out, some getting the low parts on the north side out of the floodplain and maybe, you know, knocking down the south end of it a little bit.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: All those things need to happen.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: How concerned are y'all that they're going to get through that $5.2 million?
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: And there's still going to be some of that work to do that y'all would inherit?
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: That was the beautiful part of us coming into this is Saunders is a civil engineer and has an urban planning mind and background, and I'm a civil contractor has an urban planning mind and background and I'm a civil contractor.
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: Right, my brother and I manage our own and manage our family business burns dirt and we pride ourselves in being one of the largest prominent civil companies in the area, if not in this part of the state.
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: We had a team that's able to live budget this project.
• 28:56
  Speaker 5: So imagine, we treated this like a design build project.
• 28:59
  Speaker 5: And so Saunders and I we sat down, we imagined what this would look like and I had my team over here that I could hand a set of plans to and say, hey, can you value engineer this?
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: Give me a price on this, what is it going to cost to build this?
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: And so we constantly were able to, throughout the whole process, tell the CRA hey, here's what I think it's going to cost you, because we've got a professional team over here that knows cost and they can tell you hey, that sewer line relocation there is going to cost you $150,000.
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: Oh, putting that curb and gutter is well.
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: If you change that to this, you get better value out of it right, and so it was a very.
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: It was a fun exercise because it's from the construction side of things.
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: This is what we love to do.
• 29:39
  Speaker 5: We love to take a set of plans and make them fit a budget, make them come to reality, and so I had three or four guys in my office that just got to do what they love by figuring out exactly what this was going to cost.
• 29:54
  Speaker 5: So that's kind of that's different than most projects.
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: I want to be clear, right, I'm sitting over here, obviously verifying your accuracy of your statement, but I'm also just thinking, like you know, kind of kudos to the cra and to nick and his team is like this was not your typical rfp goes out and somebody who makes some big promises comes in and there's this relationship that's tenuous from day one, right, you're not going to take care of me and I'm going to lose and you're going to win, and it has not been that way for one minute ever.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: And that is a tremendous kudos to the CRA board and to Nick and his brother and his team, and I've been kind of just sitting back going like this never works this way.
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean.
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: And so they've trusted each other.
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: I've told Nick from the beginning as long as we trust each other, we'll get to the finish line, and that has been the case.
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: I feel like that's been the case from the beginning.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Well, speaking of getting to the finish line, I want to get in the way back machine a little bit, because I've known you a long time.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: I was actually working at the Starkville Daily News, if I recall, and you were still with Neil Schaefer when we sat down.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: What year was that?
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: 2014, 15, when we were sitting down with the plans for the Adelaide down on South Montgomery named after your grandmother, as far as getting to the finish line.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: I remember sitting there looking at those plans and thinking, man, that's going to be beautiful one of these days.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: And you know, drive by it now and it has come to fruition.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: I guess how much of your experience with that and the success with that is going into your planning for this.
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: If I wouldn't have learned what I learned at Adelaide.
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: I'm not sure I'd be sitting at this table, so you don't tell Nick.
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: I'm like really glad you need me, buddy.
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because honestly he can handle about, he can handle a good chunk of this without me.
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: So, yeah, it's a tremendous asset to why I'm even here and able to contribute to the team.
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: And can I use Adelaide, if you will, as an example?
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: Yes, but I didn't create something new.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: It's been done for ages.
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: You can look at people who have done it recently.
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: You know Seaside, rosemary Beach, watercolor, the waters in Montgomery I could go on and on and on about people who have taken blank sheet, empty pieces of property and turn it into a traditional neighborhood development.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: So it's not a new concept, it's just kind of new to the area.
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: So I keep saying this.
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: But the great thing about Columbus is I don't have to show Adelaide.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: I can just walk them a little to the south and say let's just do what we've always done.
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: So I know it kind of sounds repetitive and I don't mean to pivot off of your question.
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: The answer is yes, absolutely, we can show that as an example.
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: But Columbus also has a great example right here and I'm going to answer a question you didn't ask, but I think it's important.
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: You know this is not a Columbus over-startful or versus-startful discussion at all.
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: This is the Golden Triangle and we need housing period this is the Golden Triangle and we need housing Right Period and if we're going to build houses, if somebody's going to build houses somewhere in the Golden Tri, adding to the supply in a way that is high character and making our community when I say community, I mean the triangle See what can be possible.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: That's exciting to me, nick.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: In your statements and all of the press releases that have come out from you guys through this process, you have really leaned into your.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: You know your Columbus roots and your your downtown roots and you've talked about it a little bit today.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: But I just kind of wanted to lean into the question a little bit about how much this means to you to see this through personally.
• 34:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I it is.
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: It is very special to us, um, my brother and I and I my brother's not here, my brother's the quiet, he's the guy that makes it work in the background but we very much believe in this idea of conscious capitalism and that you can do things for good and for profit.
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: And we lead that at our businesses and I think if you talk to our employees you'll hear stories of that.
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: We care about them and we care about their livelihood and we care about profit Right and we think that profit is necessary to be a good steward of resources.
• 34:48
  Speaker 5: So when we, when this property came up and we started looking at this, we said, hey, I live two or three blocks from there.
• 34:57
  Speaker 5: Right, I take my daughter and play at the playground across from here.
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: I run most mornings through this area, through the park.
• 35:07
  Speaker 5: My brother and I's office is on the corner of 5th and 2nd Avenue and I very much feel that it's a hey, why don't you come join us?
• 35:17
  Speaker 5: We enjoy living downtown.
• 35:19
  Speaker 5: We have I've had built friendships that I would have never had before I moved downtown.
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: As a matter of fact, I didn't grow up in Columbus, but I moved here in my early 20s and we spent several years living out in the county and my wife and I never found community until we moved downtown.
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: And once we moved downtown we began to build actual meaningful relationships that I will have and cherish for the rest of my life, and I very much attribute that to what there is in downtown give back in a way, but also make an investment, and all of these things in a place that has given me tremendous amounts to my life and to my wife's life and my brother's life and our my, my wife's daughter I mean it's it is.
• 36:09
  Speaker 5: It is a very, very important place to us.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: And your and your buddy Ryan over at Munson's is going to you'll.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: You'll replace the vastness of trees behind his stage.
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah, we're trying to get him to expand out to the horse with us.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: You were talking about commercial.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: We have talked to him.
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: We're trying to.
• 36:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I pump him up every time I see him.
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: Come on, come on, we got room for you.
• 36:28
  Speaker 5: But you know that is you talk about that.
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: I mean, it's no secret.
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: Ryan and I are really great friends and I'm an honorary brother there.
• 36:37
  Speaker 5: But Ryan is a great example of that, that Ryan has introduced me to so many people and I've built so many great relationships through Ryan or through the things that he has built and events that he has held or his restaurant.
• 36:51
  Speaker 5: But I also get to help Ryan and his family.
• 36:55
  Speaker 5: Right, their business will grow off of this.
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: There is no doubt that Ryan is in a prime location for this development and that feels great, right?
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: I mean that is, we all in our lives are looking for fulfillment.
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: Right, we talk about it as happiness.
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: We talk about you can describe it all of these different things, self-actualization.
• 37:15
  Speaker 5: This is me getting to find fulfillment in my community.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: And money's not too bad either.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: You need it.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: I mean you legitimately.
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: You need it to make it all happen.
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: If there is no money, you can't shoot for these dreams.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Well, I looked at in y'all's press release.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: I looked at the tentative timeline.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Says that roofs are going to be up potentially by 2028.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: How realistic is it and at what level do you see this sort of developing from there?
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: At what speed?
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: Yes, I'll give a brief overview of the design and construction process and then Saunders can talk more about what it looks like, more from a development timeline.
• 37:59
  Speaker 5: There's really two timelines that are at play here.
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: So we have a layout, we have what most people would call a master plan right of what this is going to look like.
• 38:09
  Speaker 5: So Neal Schaefer is going to continue for the next few months the process of designing the actual infrastructure of that.
• 38:18
  Speaker 5: So that's the roads, right, that's the sidewalks, that's all the water sewer storm.
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: And that's the public money.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Electrical.
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: That's right.
• 38:24
  Speaker 5: So that project then will go out as a public bid project and it will be advertised just like any other public construction project that you see.
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: Then somebody will be low bid on that right, and that process will be then built and what that looks like is just the mass grading of leveling, that leveling and filling, and cutting and filling all the utilities, the electrical, the roadway, the curb and gutter, the asphalt, the sidewalk, all of those things.
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: Right, my team tells me that they think that would take a little less than a year.
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: Right, we're contractors so we're going to bump it a little bit more right, I'm always going to have some fluff in these numbers, but-.
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: And in your financial numbers.
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: I'm like Nick, I think I can do that cheaper, yeah.
• 39:10
  Speaker 5: So I think you've got a probably 45-month time period of design, advertisement and then go to work.
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: So that's why we say break ground at the end of this year, because it is August.
• 39:22
  Speaker 5: We think that by December we could have it designed, advertised and executed.
• 39:26
  Speaker 5: Starting December is a bad time to start construction in any line of work.
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: So you'll really start cranking up in the spring.
• 39:37
  Speaker 5: All that work will go fast.
• 39:38
  Speaker 5: There's nothing major complicated, there's nothing crazy about the site work that's going to be taking place.
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: It's a big lift for that $5 million.
• 39:47
  Speaker 5: So that will take course over next year.
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: That will be what you would see then, if nothing else ever happened.
• 39:55
  Speaker 5: After that point you would see blank, lots blank city blocks with just grass and random light poles and some asphalt and some sidewalks.
• 40:06
  Speaker 5: That's what you would see.
• 40:07
  Speaker 5: After that.
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: That's when Friendly City Development comes in to build the private side and that will look like some of the alley um, the alleyways, cause we talked about rear load garages and those types of things.
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: Any kind of green space alterations or landscaping, all of those things will take place, but we'll do those in a block by block standpoint.
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: So every the big major site will be done, but then the private side development.
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: We will do that in a block by block and it'll just be hey, there's a bunch of alleyways and houses popping up in that block and then the next block.
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: So, yeah, and so the whole time that's going on, we'll have an approved plat, if you will, that we'll be able to market for lack of a better word.
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: So we'll be taking inquiries.
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: Our website, parkview Columbus, will have the opportunity to just say, hey, I'm interested.
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: That'll allow me and Nick to say, okay, well, here's the timeline, here's what's being built and here's your options of lots you can buy.
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: So people will say, well, are you building homes?
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: That's to be determined.
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: We might.
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: It's something we've talked about.
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: We'll start off by just selling lots and working with the lot purchasers to either build a custom home for themselves or spec builders who might be interested in building a home to our patterns to sell to the market.
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: I know Columbus hasn't had a lot of new subdivisions in recent history a lot of new homes but I do believe there's demand.
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: You've got a lot of things going for you from workforce Air Force Base.
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: I think there's probably pinup demand that people just wish they had a product to buy.
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: That's what I hear is I hear from locals that you would know if I listed their name that just said I would like something new, but that hasn't been presented to me as an option.
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: And the existing houses are so steep Maybe financially or physically or both there are some physically so, so we'll go through that exercise and um, for the full time of construction.
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: Um, another thing that I grew up on north montgomery street in starkville, so maybe not the same architecture as columbus, but I could walk to the park, I could walk to the gas station.
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: Uh, my neighbor's houses were connected somehow through sidewalks or backyards.
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: Um and um, nobody knew how big the homes were, how, how much money anybody made.
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: It was just a traditional neighborhood, and I can go down a whole.
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: Uh, I could, I could talk forever about how zoning and things have, uh, disallowed that to ever occur again.
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: Um, but um, you know, I believe, if you just think about it from a marketing standpoint, we're marketing to everybody, not just people who can afford a 4,000 square foot house in downtown Columbus and pay X dollars.
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: Right, everybody is the size, the design.
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: We will even have multiple design patterns, from Creole, which you could call less refined, to French colonial, which is very refined, right, and you've seen this in Adelaide.
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: It's just, we're not here to say you have to spend this much money.
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: We're here to say you're welcome to live here, we're excited about you living here.
• 43:28
  Speaker 4: Let me build a house that you'll.
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: Let me help you build a house that you'll enjoy, and so when you think about just the number of people in Columbus that could live here, I think that net is way bigger than people might realize on the surface.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right.
• 43:45
  Speaker 5: Anything either one of you guys want to add.
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: I want to add one thing to what he said.
• 43:47
  Speaker 5: You know this conversation about.
• 43:49
  Speaker 5: We are bringing this new concept to Columbus that maybe you have seen in Starkville right, of new developments and that sort of stuff.
• 43:59
  Speaker 5: I've heard people definitely in Columbus going well, is it going to work?
• 44:03
  Speaker 5: Is it?
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: We don't have anything for reference, right?
• 44:07
  Speaker 5: And when we went back and did a lot of that market study and started looking at that, that was the answer that we this one answer that we kept getting back to was well, this hasn't been done recently and has Starkville been growing?
• 44:19
  Speaker 5: Because they've been doing it?
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: Simply, right, and they had the option to Saunders point.
• 44:25
  Speaker 5: Right, there was an option there.
• 44:27
  Speaker 5: So people were building houses there and nobody was building in Columbus.
• 44:32
  Speaker 5: And I think it goes back to some of our self-loathing as a community where we kind of have a little Eeyore sometimes, right.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: You're here yeah.
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and so I think that this is actually a great opportunity.
• 44:43
  Speaker 5: And when you look at the real estate numbers of Columbus, much more volume.
• 44:47
  Speaker 5: Right, the pricing is not that of Starkville.
• 44:51
  Speaker 5: We see somewhere between 17 and 18% lower per square foot values in in columbus, but there's months where columbus has twice the volume of startful.
• 45:02
  Speaker 5: So it's not like people don't move and buy, it's just they don't build.
• 45:06
  Speaker 5: But that's because no one's selling lots for them to build on right.
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: So, and you know, guys, this is through the papers and the um, even some of the things that we've joked about here today it's going to come across to so many people as a tremendous financial opportunity.
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: Blah, blah, blah.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: We've got to make money.
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: We've joked about it, but when I moved from Memphis to Starkville and opened up the Neal Schaefer office there, I had to pivot from designing large pipelines and highways to finding things that shaped communities.
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: Right, and I hope, if nothing else, you've heard today that this is about shaping a community, giving something exciting, long lasting, like we could build a subdivision anywhere.
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: This is not that right and I think, just as a professional, being able to design and build something with this type of character and positively impacting a community is life-changing right.
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: Not financially, just contributing to the success of a community is something some people will never have the opportunity.
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: And to partner with somebody like Nick that has been changed personally by the area we're building in, to offer that opportunity to a handful of Columbus residents, either existing or future, guys, it's exciting.
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: I mean that's just exciting and it fulfills me as a professional and I'm just thankful for the opportunity.
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: I'm glad Nick sent me the text message that morning in New Orleans and it's been a fun ride since then.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you guys for coming by and talking with us about the future development, and I look forward to seeing it going up.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys for coming by and talking with us about the future development and I look forward to seeing it going up.
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: Thank you guys for the opportunity.
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: You have been listening to Between the Headlines.
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: Our special guests and friends today have been Mr Nick Parrish and Mr Saunders Ramsey, partners of the Friendly City Development Company.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: Thank you, guys.
• 47:13
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• 47:30
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• 47:50
  Speaker 3: Okay, Zach, after that segment I have a really big smile on my face.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: I see good things coming to our town.
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: What do we think about these guys Before we?
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: start there.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: I want a quick plug.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: You know we talked about the Adelaide and Saunders Ramsey's hand in developing that.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: We did a progress feature on that in our biannual magazine, progress In spring 2019, we did a feature good art, good story on that development as it was then and if you want to see what that looked like at the time and kind of how that progressed, go to progressmagcom.
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: There you go, read the paper and read the magazine as well.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you one thing that really stuck out to me is I felt like, even though these two guys are in it for the money, they're all so sincere Like I believed them when they talked about you know, at this point in our career, we want to make Columbus a better place.
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: We want to give people less things to bitch about and more things to smile about.
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: Right, did you get that vibe?
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's genuine.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: I absolutely believe it's genuine and I believe that these are the right guys to do this.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: They couldn't have CRA, could not have partnered with you know, a better team when it comes to.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: You know, if you get some developers out of you know, no offense to anybody who would fit in this category, but you get some developers out of Rankin County or down from the coast or up around Tupelo, they might do a good job, but they're not going to put the.
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: There's going to be love in this project, there's going to be pride in this project, and I think that, when it's all said and done, the pride is going to be shared by the community.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: That's very obviously their goal, and they've got the skills to do it.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: This isn't just two people talking about pie in the sky project with a bunch of buzzwords.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: These are people who actually know how to make that happen, and so, you know, I really do think that it will.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: One of the things that I really appreciated about it was their seeming willingness to receive public input.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: They've got a website it's parkviewcolumbuscom, and I've looked at that.
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: You can go on there and just let them know that you're interested either in an opinion or and just let them know that you're interested either in an opinion or in actually investing in that.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure I buy the notion that just anybody's going to be able to build a house here, it's going to be some upscale stuff, if I'm not mistaken.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: Well, obviously it's not going to be low-income housing, because that's the whole reason that the CRA intervened here.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Now, if you come in and your entry price point over there is half a million dollars, you're going to be excluding a lot of people who, you know, should be able to afford a nice house in the old Burns Bottom.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: But you know, I don't think it's going to be that bad old Burns Bottom, but I don't think it's going to be that bad.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: I want to zoom out here, though, and talk about the Columbus Redevelopment Authority's role in this.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: This has been a Moses taking the Israelites through the desert type situation Ten years of Wandering, wandering, yeah, something like that.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: It took them forever to get the properties.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: This is something that significant amounts of public taxpayer money has been invested in getting to.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: Here I've criticized CRA editorially.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: We've talked about how long it was taken for CRA, and it has taken a long time 10 years since they started trying to acquire these properties and then offload them to a developer.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: I do want to say, on the positive side of that, though it has taken a decade.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: Props to them for sticking with it.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Prop props to them for sticking with it.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Props to them for hanging on and getting that public money that's going to be $3 million from the state, $2.2 million from the federal government.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: That is making it possible to prep the site for developers to want it, because that is some nasty elevation with some curveballs that are being thrown out there.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: They stuck with it.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: They kept believing in what they were doing.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: That board changed over several times and they just kept passing the baton and getting it done.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: And it wasn't pretty always it wasn't pretty always, they didn't always look the best in the process.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: But I'm going to tell you, martha Lee Porter, who was the chair of that authority board, was just darn proud last night at the council meeting when she was presenting this just beaming and she should have been, because, I mean, they've put a lot into this and they finally arrived at a destination.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're finally getting to the promised land here.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: I thought it was a really good moment for Miss Porter last night to get to be the one to publicly deliver the news to the council and the gallery there.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: Definitely a beautiful moment, and I'll just say that I don't know what this is going to look like.
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm always cynical and I'm always concerned about the money, but at the same time I think it's very, very bad when we talk down our town to the point that we can't accomplish things.
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: I mean, we're going to look down the hill here.
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: You know, it may not be like walking around in Greenville, South Carolina.
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: Be like walking around in Greenville, South Carolina.
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: Okay, there might not be huge geysers or I don't know glass bridges or any of that kind of stuff, but what we will have Again David plugging for the water features and.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: Burns Bottom.
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: Good grief, but what we will have is you think about it?
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: Just two years ago we were having to run the hobo out who had turned the concession stand down there into a microtel, and we're going to go from that into something that has this neoclassical architecture to it.
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: It's going to be going from an eyesore into something beautiful and make people want to live right here in the friendly city.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: Just because you build a neoclassical house doesn't mean you've dealt with your homelessness problem, david.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: So that's going to be a different subject with a different solution.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: But one more thing I wanted to say about last night in the CRA.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: You know, jeff Turnage has been one since the beginning.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: That's been an attorney for these guys and at times sort of de facto spokesman for the organization, and he's had to field a lot of the tough questions through the years.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Last night and I was happy for him too it looked like he looked like somebody holding a newborn grandbaby while he was listening to this presentation and I liked that moment for him too.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to throw that out there.
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: After the break more stuff.
• 55:02
  Speaker 6: The Good for Business podcast features interviews, tips and tricks from owners, operators and innovators.
• 55:07
  Speaker 6: Hear the inspiring stories of growth and life lessons from guests in Mississippi and around the world Hosted by entrepreneur, fundraiser and real estate broker, colin Krieger.
• 55:16
  Speaker 6: The podcast is based right here in the Golden Triangle community.
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: So, Zach, in this next segment I want to handle it a little bit delicately and just kind of deal with the facts.
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: And the facts are, as we know it, that Officer Harris, the police officer who was involved in that crash, has resigned his post from the Columbus Police Department.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: And it wasn't expressly stated that it was him, but we know that a resignation was accepted and it's kind of common knowledge?
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: No, we've confirmed through direct sources that it was him, that he's no longer there.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: That's correct and we've confirmed officially that he's no longer with the police department through the HR department because that roster is public information.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: But look, this really bothers me, and it bothers me for several reasons and I'm just going to run down the line here.
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: First of all, it looks like the only person who's got, who's going to pay any consequences, any real consequences in this situation, is davion bankhead um, you know, I thought you were going to say harris, there no, no, I mean what, what?
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: what he lost his job he lost his.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: He resigned his job but but you know, look you've got.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: You know he he's going to end up in somebody else's town driving 80 miles an hour in somebody else's community and somebody else's cop cars them kids too, though.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: He's not going to pay any consequences for this.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: He got to resign, they got to privately put him away and he's going to go to another community and still be a cop In all likelihood.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: There's nothing stopping him from it.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: Still be a cop in all likelihood, or there's nothing stopping him from it.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: And I feel like this is just the culmination of a clear effort, you know by by chief joseph daughtry, possibly others in city administration, you know to protect these officers and.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: And so we're talking about harris, but we're also talking about about renfro.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: 32 days went by like he wasn't just he wasn't injured from this wreck and then came back to work and resigned.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: He came back to work weeks ago.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: He was out on the streets doing what he was doing before.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: There's no, there's no learning, there's no contrition.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: This wasn't a situation where he's like god, you know, I did screw that up and I need to.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: I I need to probably not be here anymore.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: This was a situation where discipline was not recommended for him.
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: Not initially and not even later, and I believe the council was pushing for that.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: I believe that the council was pushing for that.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: That's my opinion, and I believe that it finally got to the point two days before the day before the council meeting, because his last day officially was Monday.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: It finally got to the point to where Daughtry was like look they're, they're going to fire you.
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: So yeah, you'll probably need to resign.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: Looks better on the resume.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: It does.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: And so there was this was a clear effort, in my opinion, orchestrated through a 32-day or 33-day, nobody being held accountable for anything, where finally the officer resigns before the council has a chance to enact any discipline or a termination.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: And I think that that's you know.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: I think that that's garbage.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: The council has a chance to enact any discipline or determination, and I think that that's you know.
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: I think that that's garbage.
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: What I see in this is a deliberate choice on the count of, let's just say, our administration, and definitely our police chief's department there to act in opacity, okay, to put a wall up and say, nope, we're not going to talk about it, we've got it handled.
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: And then when they did talk about it, it was some very unseemly things said which made all of the um trash talking.
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: Uh, you know, by us common folk.
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: It just made it worse Instead of just getting out there and open yeah, this is bad, we've got to do a review.
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: Here's what we know.
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: Here's the footage, right, you know.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, the investigation has been over for weeks.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: It's been more than a month since this happened and he got to resign without consequences, and that's crazy to me.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: And another thing that's crazy is there seems to be no appetite for consequences for Lieutenant Scott Renfro, who to me is just as guilty as Harris because he knowingly corroborated a lie when he was giving a statement to investigators.
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: Is there any possibility that Lieutenant Renfro kind of showed up in the aftermath of that crash and said hey, buddy, what happened?
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: And then he said well, this is what happened.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: And then he just kind of parroted it without even knowing, like, is there any way to defense Renfro?
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: He?
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: scapegoated a civilian for something he, the civilian, didn't do, and his best case scenario is he didn't see it and then said he did.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: I want to challenge anybody in Columbus who stopped by Renfro or arrested by Renfro to challenge the charge.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: Hire a lawyer and, in cross-examination, say well, sir, you scapegoated a civilian before to back the blue.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: How do we know you're not doing that now?
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: And every time that man was on the stand, from now until the time that they finally decide he doesn't need to be a cop, they need to be bringing this up every time he testifies in court.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: I guarantee you, if he gives me a ticket, that's what's going to happen.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: I tell you, our libertarian listeners are getting riled up.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: Get riled up.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: Get riled up, Because that's I mean, how do we know you're not doing it now?
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: How do we know we can't go back to all of your investigations before?
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: Because that's the credibility thing here.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: You've got to have credibility and integrity and there have to be consequences for doing things like this.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: If you have a badge because you testify against people, you arrest people, You're responsible for doing that in a way that is, you know, constitutional.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: You've got chain of custody, officer conduct.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: All of those things come into these investigations, come into this responsibility.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: If they're doing this in the light, what are they doing in the dark?
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: Well, zach, I just hope that you're wrong.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: Like I can't gauge it, I wasn't there.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: But all I can say is I hope, I hope and I pray that this ugly little chapter here is a learning experience.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's been any learning.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: What learning has there been?
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: This may be the take I had, that you disagree with the most.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: But there's a lot of hope in this council.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: But when you boil it down, this is a failure of this council.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: You know, instead of demanding accountability, they let Daughtry dispense of this matter as he saw fit, which was pretty much him flipping a big fat middle finger to the council and the public.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: And if you're keeping score at home, that makes that makes it negative Columbus image one.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: And mayor and council who vowed to change that?
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: Zero for this administration so far.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: I got nothing like.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: I can't counter that.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: All I'm saying is I hope we do better.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: I hope we do better.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: Well, they've got it to do 100% Well.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: We thank all of you for joining us today.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: Be sure to follow the show and share our show, and just help us get the word out and make our hometown a better place, and always send us your comments, tips at cdispatchcom.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: You can also follow me on Facebook or X at dchism00 and leave a public comment, Signing off from Catfish Alley Studio until next week here in historic downtown Columbus, your host has been a very animated Zach player and I am David Chisholm.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: Y'all keep it friendly and we'll keep it real.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: Opinions expressed on this show are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of the Commercial Dispatch.