Latest / Skin Anarchy / Sébastien Tardif, Celebrity Makeup Artist and Founder of Veil Cosmetics

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Sébastien Tardif, Celebrity Makeup Artist and Founder of Veil Cosmetics · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
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  SPEAKER_00: At the banner or visit this episode's page to learn more.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: Hi guys, welcome back to my team.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm my makeup of a professional celebrity makeup artist with so much experience under his belt and so much just wisdom and knowledge that he's going to share with us today.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I can't wait.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: So um without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Sebastian Tardif, who is the founder of Veil Cosmetics and also, like I said, a very well-known, um, highly acclaimed celebrity makeup artist.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: So welcome to the show, Sebastian.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so thrilled that you're here.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for having me, Edgar.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thrilled to be here.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I it's so fun talking to true artists and just learning from you guys because I have such a love and appreciation for makeup artistry.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I would love to get started.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, where if you could take us back, you know, and just where it all began for you in terms of, you know, knowing that you wanted to go into this field of artistry and just, you know, all the details.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, feel free to interrupt me here and there because you know, I don't want to be going on and on.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, please, please go on.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's all the story, right?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: I want to keep everybody listening to uh our uh our uh chatting today that you know I want to make sure that everybody's interested and not falling asleep.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: So um, well, great.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, where to begin?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I studied fine arts and I have a bachelor's degree in uh studio arts.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of where my journey began.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in the, you know, with paint and drawing faces.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was obsessed with portraits, and and I was getting really obsessed with fashion at the same time and buying all the magazines, you know, before Pinterest and social media was a thing.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I just was just loving and was really, really discovering fashion.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it was very clear to me that being an artist, you know, painting on canvas was going to be a very solitary life ahead of me, just waiting for an art opening to get social, you know.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: And and also I also differentiated between my love of fashion and appreciation for fashion versus having to craft and making it.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought, okay, so what could I do to get involved with fashion, get, you know, in the eye of the storm, being you know, in the middle of the excitement and and also being productive and and have a contribution.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when being a makeup artist dawned on me.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: I thought, well, painting portraits, getting into fashion, there you go, makeup.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I just really zoomed in on the backstage of fashion.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Fashion week was my thing.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was really, really obsessed watching all the well, the few little backstage television shows that were at the time because before it became a big thing, you know, the backstage has now become, you know, the main show, I think, nowadays.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and I really uh just never look back from that moment on.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: I just uh enrolled for a uh a makeup class that lasted about three months.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: And if there are any makeup artists listening to our show today, I want to make sure that you feel confident not having to necessarily take a makeup class because you know it's good to get introduced to the different techniques and the different fields, but you're really going to learn while practicing your craft.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: This is really what it gets down to, you know.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_03: I love that you said that.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: Because I I really was um w wanting you to give true tips and knowledge to all of the budding makeup artists out there because you know what?
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_03: Let's be honest, what you just said is the truth, and you know, especially with something like art, you can't teach art like that.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you can up to a point, but you've got to let the person express what they feel is their own way, right?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I completely agree.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: But continue to continue.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think that in the makeup class though, what I'm actually very thankful for having been exposed to is the history of makeup throughout the decades.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's such such an important aspect because when you're hired as a makeup artist and you are doing an editorial and they're saying, well, today, you know, we'll be doing a 1920s inspired photo shoot, we've got to know your history of makeup and fashion so that your your experience and your vision concords with the people that you'll be collaborating with.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: So um, and of course, adding your own spin and making it modern because we never do it literal for literal.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one thing that I'm really appreciative for being in that class, and also knowing that um when we got to the FX part of the course, that that was not going to be my favorite thing.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's definitely not where I was headed.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, I find FX makeup is such a different field, it's more technical and it's almost like chemistry at the same time.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it's yeah, it's just a whole different field.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, so wait, hold on.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, Sebastian, what is FX makeup?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: What is that?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, FX makeup is is when you're looking, uh you're watching a horror movie, you're watching sci-fi movies, okay, okay, okay.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you're doing special effects.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: So you're you know, placing prosthetics on the face, and you have to glue it down, you can't see the theme, and you have to use silicone or latex and and all of that stuff that transforms like you know a human being to a different character with different features altogether.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's when I think I where I find that I lose the beauty and it gets more technical.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm all about the aesthetics and the beauty and the inspiration and and the woman or the woman, the man that's that's you know, that's that's my canvas on that day.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: No, I get that.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that, you know, here's the thing, you know, my personal opinion as someone who's been like a makeup lover in the sense of I'm a true, like, you know, I'm a true, like, I guess, art connoisseur in that way for makeup artistry, because I've always been that consumer that looks at a spread in a magazine or like a uh, you know, a page, and I look at how beautiful the makeup looks on this human being and how perfect they're, you know, just the overall look it becomes.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that's you know, that's truly where I think, you know, when I talk to editors, I'm like so sad about like how print is going out of style because I I remember like staring at magazine covers and be like, oh my God, how did they get it to look like that?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: That kind of stuff.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I have such an appreciation for what?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, what you've decided to like, you know, the niche that you picked in terms of like the kind of artistry you wanted to do.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: Because honestly, that's how women and men get inspired on what is their own look, right?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's how where we get our inspiration.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: I I would I would agree with that.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's the those photo shoots are still happening, they're just going straight to digital now, and you don't have that tactile effect of you know turning the pages and really staring at at that page anymore.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that uh that's you know a bit of a lost art form nowadays.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: However, I still love my Pinterest.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's where I go get my inspiration now and look at the different photo shoes or just scrolling the internet.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the kids nowadays you have it really, really easy being able to, you know, to get out there and have access out of at your fingertips, you know, all of the the different uh types of makeup information, and you have a lot access to a lot more now than than having to you know buy all the magazines, which was a very expensive endeavor, or being the uh the magazine rat where you know you'd be looked at with uh a bit of a dirty look, you know, if you were staying too long in the magazine section without purchasing anything.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which I've done way too many times.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: I have too.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: No, I have too.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: I know exactly what that's why I laughed.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, that was me.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: You can't buy them all.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Excuse me.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Anyhow, but yeah, so I I really once I knew that's where I was headed, so I never look back.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I never um when I used to begin my career, and I think that I, you know, I think this interview today with you is this chatter is really nice to kind of like remind me of that um gumption that I used to have, the fire in my belly.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was just like unstoppable.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I need to get back into that for inspiration for myself because I think we get a little complex and a little comfortable in our lives as we get a little older, and and the the fire in our belly might not be as as uh intense as when we first started.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: But I remember at the beginning of my career, I would never stop.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: It was doing bridals on the weekend, it was working retail during the week in a high-end uh clothing fashion store where I would sell makeup, and that's where I learned a lot of my craft of dealing with everyday women, you know, where nobody's perfect and there's no filter, and you're really dealing with, you know, the real skin issues and the opinion of somebody, not a model that can't say anything back to you when you're putting the makeup on.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: And and then I would do and I would work uh part-time in the uh television uh channel where I would do um MC News MCs uh makeup, or also um some there was uh it was this television station where you would have part like the equivalent of MTV in Toronto.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it was MTV, and then you have like Rafael where you would have the the uh the fashion segments and you have the news anchor.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like a new uh a makeup room where all these people working in the building would come and get ready before they would get on the air.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that was a great fast-paced learning experience.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that's also one of my biggest tips for makeup artists starting industry.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: Time is of the essence, time is money.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody has time for you to start over and to get creative.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: They all just looking at their watch and they want you to be done before you've even begun.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the biggest take-home message starting my career, and that's how I finally got a lot of other jobs after that.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because when we got into the interview process, they would time us, and that was always the first one done because I had learned that really early on in my career.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to get done quickly, especially in television.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and that stayed with me up till this day.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: But sometimes, you know, we get on a creative shoot, and it's really, really nice to they say, take all the time you need, you know, as long as it's really, really out of this world and we've never seen what you're gonna be doing.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that's yeah, but I mean, that's so that's very difficult to do, Sebastian.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, honestly, like I think that that's where I'm going to ask you because for all of the people listening or the you know, the makeup artists that are still trying to find out, you know, where they really want to be with their career and all that, I want to know, um, you know, in terms of when you go into a, you know, a session or you know, you're going into something with a client and you know that you've got to get this done ASAP, but like what are the pillars of makeup and the and the things that you know are tried and true that you know are you're gonna end up um using on this person?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, can you give us some examples of like like, okay, I'm gonna do the skin this way, or the eye should always be like this, or you know, just any like big categories to kind of like write down maybe on a piece of paper and reflect on, you know, as an artist, like what you should always do with every client.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's a really good question because it may vary.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that you've got to do your homework prior to getting the job, going to the getting to the job.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you've got to know who's gonna be your client, who are you doing makeup on, and trying to get there a little earlier so that you can set up properly.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're taking time to set up and they're already waiting for you, like the stress is just beyond, and you'll be shaking the entire time.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: So getting ahead, you know, to the job, that's a great important part.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you can take time to uh get your your kit and your your setup right, um, and also getting your makeup kit prepared prior to the job so that you know exactly you got a bit of a game plan entering this.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: And we can carry, I used to carry a big suitcase of makeup and it would break my back.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: And at some point, after having to climb up so many flights of stairs with that suitcase, I thought, okay, enough with the insanity.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we gotta pair it down, and now you should see.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I I just travel with a little like uh like one foot by you know, uh 10 inch sort of like little case of you know, all of my favorites for the day, and that's it.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I walk in almost like a businessman with my little I love that, I love that that's changed a lot, but yeah, having a game plan, I think experience also helps you being able to make those quick decisions, what you will be using on that day on that shoot.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: And you know if it's gonna be a creative, if it's gonna be more commercial, if it's gonna be more neutral, and also always have that little, you know, pack lights or you can have maybe a a palette that has all of the neutrals and a palette that has more like the colorful stuff in case something you know pops up that you might need, you know, red or bright blue.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: And and then tricks to make it quick.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think that you can't second guess never start over when doing makeup.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: If something goes wrong, the eyeliner is crooked, just keep going and fix it as you go along.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: You'll this is how I've learned my craft is by fixing my mistake as they happen, as opposed to erasing and starting over, because then you never know what to do when this happens again.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: So if the eyeliner gets a little too crooked on the outside, then grab that q-tip with a bit of eye cream and you know, clean it up, or just you know, smudge that eyeliner and it becomes a soft, smoky eye.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's the easiest way.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: If your your liner is crooked, it's not even smudge it and everything blends together.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: So those little things, but I always start with um skin for me is the most important thing.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I start with skin.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: If the skin is right, I can just throw on a quick uh coat of mascara, a bit of lip balm, and then you know, cheek cream.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: I use creams a lot because I find that they're a lot faster to uh to blend on the skin.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: And same with eyes.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: I like to use creams that that that turn uh into something that's a more long wear, uh call it waterproof.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_03: Sebastian, you're not the you're not the only um like the uh professional um makeup artist that said that though about creams.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I you guys really do prefer them.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I wonder, is it is it because of the blendability then?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's because they're easy to work with or what?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: For me, it's blendability, and it's like I can use the cream on the cheeks, on the lips, I can use it to add oomph, you know, overall the face to make it more healthy looking, you know, yeah, i.e.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: bronzer or just like a healthy glow from, you know, like as if you reach on vacation.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: But on the eye, for the eye area, for me, the creams, they're not messy.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: I can blend them quick with my the tip of my finger and then use the brush to sort of like just uh clean up the edges.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they didn't fall off.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: So if you've done concealer and then you're using eyeshadow and you're trying to build a quick eyeshadow, and if you're going fast and the pigment that you've used on that day is a little too uh dry or powdery or not as as creamy as you would have wished, then it falls into the lashes, it falls into your concealer, and then you have to start over.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: So having had to do that a few times, I've learned that I, you know, don't have time to clean up a concealer that I've already spent five minutes doing.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have time to, you know, reapply mascara on top of an eyeshadow, that on top of an eyeshadow that fell into my lashes, which makes them look dusty.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: So all of these little details, like that's what leads me to using creams.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have time for cleanup and creams, they don't fall.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, you would not use, you know, those those old pants that were like wax base that just melt all over, and then you know, you blink and it's you know transferred over your your your crease.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't use those.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: No, but I love that you clarified that because honestly, I think I'm the reason also I asked is because I'm seeing that the makeup industry has shifted a little bit towards more cream-based products.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: And like I'm really liking that because I even as a consumer, an everyday woman who you know wants her makeup done very quickly, you know, I don't have a lot of time on my hands.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: So when I do my makeup, it's like bam, bam, done.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like I have like three products, use them, done.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: And and I I really agree with you.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I mean I have to, and then I agree with you in the sense that the creams really, the cream-based products for me are always my favorites because it's like I'm finding that I'm starting to use, like, for example, my Victoria Beckham uh like the posh lipsticks, I'll I'll have like this one color that I know fits my lips and my, you know, it's the perfect color for me, but I use that for my blush, I use it for my lips, I'll use it for you know what I mean.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just this idea of like using a cream-based product, whether it's a lipstick or whatever.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I it's multi-usage.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's multi-use, yeah.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that that's very, very important.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the makeup industry has definitely reflected that, that you know, uh and what you just described as you know, a professional.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: I I love to hear that you're you're you're into that because I think that it's a reflection also of all I think it's a very makeup intense time right now.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think people, I think there's never been as much of a spotlight onto the makeup industry as there is now.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think people are no longer afraid of, I think people are eager for those tips now.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's has to do with the influencers trying to understand what the makeup industry is about, being on the outside, but trying to share with the audience, you know, a new trick and a new tip to keep their sort of um their spotlight and their popularity going.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: And they borrow a lot from what they see from the makeup industry, whether it's current news or old news, like you know, baking, which was an old way of doing makeup back in the you know, 40s and 50s, because the makeup was greasy and was heavy under the hot spotlight, and you had to bake and the technology was not there in terms of textures and makeup uh uh you know uh refinement.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: So baking is not a new thing, it's just that it became uh sort of talked about again as this technique to, you know, uh to get, I guess, to get viewership.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now, um, with creams, again, I think the technology has changed a lot.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really why also I still gravitate around them because they they can stay on.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: They don't have to crease anymore and they're multi-use.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: You can use them on the eyes, on their lips, on the cheeks, all over the face.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I think that, you know, who would want to say no to that unless you take four hours to do your makeup, then you have time to start over and to use powder that might be a little messy.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: But the reality is, you know, women on the go have to get ready, they have family, that they have to, you know, get everything done at the same time.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think the fingertip makeup is the best.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I think that they're gaining popularity.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think makeup artist lines are reflective of that sort of makeup technique.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think that the makeup brands that are more out of a uh of a lab with like a bunch of corporate guys, you know, trying to think of what else are we going to create with chemists and you know, they're not really in touch with reality.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that a lot of makeup brands for a long time were coming from that world and were more marketing based.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you know, there are so many makeup lines that are makeup owned by a makeup artist like myself.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that you're getting more of the true tips and the true sort of like eye from behind the scenes and what we truly what would you like to truly do and and get uh and get done to get it.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, honestly, it it shows though, you know.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: And here's the thing, and I want to bring this up as a the perfect example of what you just said, because the idea of powder has always okay.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just gonna say this because I this the fun I finally get to say this to you know to an audience of people.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: I really hate the way powder is used in the day-to-day Instagram reels and the day-to-day because guess what?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: No, we're we're we're kindred spirits.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: Keep going.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm telling you, and I'm just about to get to the auto mat product you have in your line because this is the problem.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you guys don't need powder every little, like you every time you see a little bit of shine, you don't need powder there.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: You need something to take away the shine.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: And um, Sebastian has this brilliant product in his line.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's called Auto Mat, and it's a clear, like the consistency is clear, but it's specifically designed to take away shiny, you know, areas throughout the day on your face, and it's not a powder.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I want you, Sebastian, to explain to us the difference between wanting to take that shine away versus just freaking packing out, you know, packing on that powder and looking like you just, I don't even know, you know, you just I I I completely agree.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think for me coming from the world of beauty editorial and having to do micro shots where the photographer is so close and you see the eye and then you see the concealer so up close that if there's spicks of powder, it's going to look like rocks on the skin.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then the photography becomes so retouched, and it's such a detriment to my work as a makeup artist when it's so plastic looking and so retouched that you don't recognize skin anymore.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: So that really says it's kind of something that I discovered while working as a makeup artist that I discovered that okay, well, powder does not work for close ups.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then how many times have I heard my clients say, Oh, I hate powder, it makes me look old, it looks dry.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, and I think that that's also always been my desire to not only as a makeup artist love what the makeup is going to be in the end.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, am I happy?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Am I satisfied with the artistry that I've put out today?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: But also my main, my main aim is to make sure that my client is thrilled and happy and can forget about her makeup and just feel great, you know, and looking great.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's also listening to my client and also what I've watched and what I've seen on on um on the photography, what happens with powder.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, with automat, what I wanted is to, I mean, my inspiration, of course, I I did not make, I did not invent the mattifying balm as itself, but I mean coining the frame, the phrase mattifying balm.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think that I I would like to take a bit of credit for that.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think there were more called like anti-shines before, or um I don't know, I don't know.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I guess they're more like anti-shines or deshiners.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: However, you know, back in gosh, the late 90s, I remember Smashbox came out, and I this is a brand that I launched back in the day in Toronto, and they had an anti-shine, and it was not exactly up to speed yet with technology, but I understood where they were going.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it was this little jar, and it was like this kind of like jelly, weird jelly.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess it was like a really thick silicone based and all sorts of other ingredients that I was not really paying attention to at the time.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: But when I would put it in the face, it would take the shine completely away.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I was much younger back then, I was very oily, so that was just it just blew my mind.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: But I remember that it would just feel a little thick on the skin and it would just almost like clock the pores, and and the most the biggest problem was that in the jar the product itself would actually dry out, and you ended up with this little rubbery ball in in the uh in the container after a couple of you know months, and that was just no good.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that product never lasted, but the idea was there, so that always stayed in my mind, and then of course, having my own brand now, I've always been on this lookout for this product that would take the shine away.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: So when the time came to actually expand my brand, I thought, okay, this is it, this is what I'm always, always looking for at that stage of my makeup is to take the shine away.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a mattifying balm, it goes on clear.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: You can use it under makeup, over makeup, without makeup.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: And the trick is to not only just take the shine away, but to keep the skin looking like skin, which powder does not accomplish.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: I do not care if they say it's translucent, it's finely milled, it's this, it's that.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: It always ends up looking a little dry or a little powdery when you're using it.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now, some people might not agree with me, that's fine, but my experience under the lens, on a close-up on camera, or every day under different spotlights with powder, there's always something that ends up looking unnatural.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I am, I really pride myself on a complexion that looks glowy, that looks like lit from within.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not from the school of the transformative makeup.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: I like a fresh skin that if you do an editorial and you want to pack the eye with this great graphic blue, you know, cat eye, and then the skin has got to be radiant and spotless.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: If you have skin that is really contoured and powdered and baked and this and that, that you're gonna look like a clown and it takes away from the edge and the beauty of that editorial.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where I come from with my background.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: So skin has to be spotless, and automatic leaves skin looking like you have nothing on, period.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think also just to just from my perspective, after what you just said, I feel like it's like skin, like we need to start looking at like makeup, especially like any kind of makeup, I think.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, if you're trying to do something with your eyes or lips or whatever, it's an accessory to good skin.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: Your skin is your skin, but your makeup is that accessory that makes you pop and that makes you just like, you know, really come out and just you know, it it accepts it it it's there to really um highlight what's already underneath, which is the genuine good skin.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: You've been taking care of your body, you know what I mean?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: All of that stuff is supposed that's how I see it, you know, as a consumer.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: I I I completely agree.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that there are different types of makeup for different time from different situations and different types of activities or different aim or different purposes, and that's all good.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I love all of it, and that's what creates you know this fun, really creative field that is the makeup artistry field.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: But for my aim, if you're looking for the no-makeup makeup, that's me.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's veil cosmetics.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I called it veil.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, veil to me came to me because I wanted to make sure that you know, I don't cover skin.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's not camouflage, it's not covered.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's let me veil your nose, let me veil your skin so that it's sort of breathing.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it it still invokes or it still sort of uh implies that your skin is going to be seen.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: And by veiling it, using it, using maybe a little concealer or a foundation that's really weightless.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: So you're always just going to um highlight the beauty and the health of your own skin as opposed to, you know, and that's why I say it's not makeup, it's veil.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's just as simple as that.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's if you're the star, the skin should look as healthy as possible.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: And most people now, I think, are really, really into going to see their staticians or their, you know, um, you know, getting injections or getting, you know, a little boost of this or getting micro, you know, uh germ abrasion and laser this.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that the aim is to get the skin to look as amazing as can be and to boost the collagen.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're gonna do all that and splatter on a thick coat of foundation and bake it and contour, then you're why are you investing that much money in in going to see your aesthetician and your beautician?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: I it just doesn't make sense to me.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: I exact I I completely agree.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that, you know, you naming it veil is perfect because I'm not gonna lie, as a consumer that was um, you know, and I'm at a much younger age when I was looking for like powders, especially, or even anything that had to do with foundation, I would always look for words like veil or blur or like you know, those like words, because really that's what I knew in my head, like I wanted.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted something that was like light enough to where it was gonna feel like a veil and not like you know what I mean, like just a mess.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I wanted but I wanted that blurring, you know what I mean?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like I that's what I wanted.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and those words which funny is that it's with marketing nowadays, depending on who is behind the marketing of such brands, sometimes they will use the word because it sounds nice, yeah, but you get the product in your hand and it's not delivering what the marketing is telling you what it's going to be.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and I find that a little difficult to understand.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: Also, the same is true for people that have not realized that the brand is called Veil, and then they buy, let's say my concealer, and they're expecting this full coverage, you know, basically embalming sort of moment under the eyes.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I I well, I I call the brand Veil.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I didn't call it mask.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: Think about the market thing sometimes and try to make it make sense of it.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I and I that goes not only for the consumer, but that goes for the people behind the makeup brands, you know.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: Pay attention to what you're doing.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_02: You can't just call it veil because it sounds nice, you know, call it veil because it truly is supposed to be, you know, see-through and weightless, and you know, it's weightless beauty for me.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I call my brand Veil.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Weightless beauty is sort of like the little catchphrase that goes with it so that it takes a little further.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: So if people have not understood where with Vail right away, then with weightless beauty, then they might sort of clue in at that point.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that's that's what also, as a makeup artist, brought me to create my line is that when I said earlier, you know, don't erase and just fix it on the spot.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's how you're going to learn.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: All these years of doing makeup and playing with makeup back in the 90s and the early 2000s, that makeup was maybe white space or a little thicker, or that did not really have that aim to, you know, get that lit from within no makeup, makeup look.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: I worked with skincare and makeup to create that balance and create that canvas that looked exactly like a veil.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: And after all these years of working with that makeup, when the chance came to me to actually create my own design, my own brand, I knew exactly what I was going for.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: It had to be skincare-infused makeup fusion that would, you know, do good while you're wearing the makeup.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're gonna wear makeup all day, might as well do good for it and hydrate it and brighten it and smooth it out.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: And at the same time, you know, just being easy to use, multitasking.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I never look back ever since.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it's our 10th year anniversary next year.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_03: I will congratulations, first of all.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_03: And second, I just wanna I just want to say like your brand is just so it really is what you just said.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's you know, everything you wanted, you really did create.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: And like as a consumer, like I appreciate the fact that you've put in this thought and you've put in your expertise and like your insights because I mean, at the end of the day, we all want to be able to like go and like when you know when you're like you're going to the bathroom or something and you catch a glimpse of yourself in the mirror, and you are so happy with the way you look and your makeup looks.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's the feeling every single person wants when they put on makeup so that throughout the day, when they look at themselves, it hasn't shifted, it hasn't, you know what I mean?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's what we want, and that's what makes us feel beautiful throughout the day.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's what you know, your brand is really delivering.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I, you know, I think it really comes back to all these like fundamentals that you've described of like keeping it simple, but keeping it efficient and keeping it, you know, exactly what the skin needs.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's really where, you know, like I said in the beginning of the episode, I have such a immense, you know, appreciation for makeup artistry because it's not about how much product you use, it's about how you use those products, it's about how you place them, you know?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: That this what's the purpose?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you using this makeup?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, with TikTok and you know, Instagram, there are so many hacks, how to use concealer.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: And what you just said is so important.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: It has because it's almost like it's taking for granted that we all need to apply the concealer the same way, but we all have different eyes, we all have different, you know, skin issues, and the darkness is not the same for everybody.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: Some people have a really dark under eye under the eye, some people it's more like in the inner corner, and some people it's more redness on the eyelid or a redness on the outer corner of the eyes.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: So when they say, Oh, this is new TikTok application, when you do a dot in the inner corner and one on the outside to lift the outside, it doesn't work for everybody.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and anyways, the way they do it, it ends up being the same thing as what they used to do, which use a highlighter as a triangle under the eyes and then blend it until it disappears because you put too much product.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, I it's insane.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: Sebastian made me cringe when I saw that on Instagram and YouTube was that huge triangle of concealer.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I'm sorry.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know when this started happening or like who started it, but I'm pretty sure every solid, you know, trained professional artist in makeup would disagree with your technique.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and it was it was ridiculous.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: It was ridiculous.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: And the same with like, you know, you had brought up baking in the very beginning.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I agree with you that baking was a technique created for a very specific reason in a specific time for the way makeup was then.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: But like we don't need to all be baking all the time.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like you want to bake, like it's it's the holiday season, go bake some cookies.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: But like don't go.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, ginger rolling, and then you know, let's get some gingerbread remote.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like, please send me a package of you know, gingerbread cookies.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: But like it's a just, you know, at the end of the day, like it's more about see, this is why I'm this is why I would rather have you all here than just somebody who is a self-proclaimed makeup artist, because there is a difference, and that's not a derogatory statement.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to make that clear is that you can't, I mean, okay, you have a YouTube channel or something.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Or you have an influential person might be more entertaining than some true makeup artist.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's where we need to differentiate this.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think that influencers are very entertaining.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, a lot of them, not all of them, and makeup artists might have more makeup techniques, but might we might not be as entertaining.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's where I sort of separate.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, that is what it is, and it's just it's just that you know, we need to have the distinction.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I think consumers need to understand that, like, you know, there's room for both.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: There's room for both.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, perfectly said.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think that that's it's very important to make that analysis as a person who's like just looking at social media.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, I want to move on to actually talking about the um the complexion product you have and in terms of your foundation because it's such a beautiful, beautiful product.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I remember when I first, first of all, everyone listening, when Sebastian sent me the his team sent me the um my color, it was beyond the perfect match.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_03: It was like obviously, you know what I mean?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: And that's how I was like that.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he's he's just telling he just knows, you know.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: So it was like, I I just want to say, like, you know, the colors are beautiful and I feel like the shades are crafted very masterfully and with a reason.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: So I would love for you to kind of dive into that and how you um excuse me, created the shades and um all that uh stuff that went behind it.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I so I'm a complexion-based brand.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: So veiled for me, my focus is the complexion.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why you're not gonna find not yet, anyhow, like eyebrow colors or I delved into color for the first time just before the pandemic, but uh it's just that I I wanted to just complete the face while I was doing a makeup, you know, for an editorial and not having to necessarily reach for all of my other uh arsenal uh in my kit.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I um complexion being centric brand, I wanted to have these colors that would mimic skin, that would look like skin, and that are buildable so that if you want a little more, then you can still apply it without making it look like it's a lot.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: And being water-based is super important for me because I can make it feel like it's it's well, it can actually hydrate the skin.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: It can I can add some actives that will actually penetrate into the skin and not just be stuck on the surface.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: And it sort of melts with the skin as opposed to sitting on top of the skin.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I find that that's how I kind of work with my chemists is making sure that the goodies can get into the skin and also being easy to blend, whether you're a pro or a anfesionato.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: And and when I created the brand, I started out with the complexion fix, which is concealers that can be used as corrector, as a highlighter, or as a concealer.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I always say or because it cannot do all three of them.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of people that will talk about my complexion fix, they'll say it can do its complexion fix, you know, it's its concealer, corrector, and highlighter, you know, all in one.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the product can do all of that, but not at the same time because they're all different uh techniques.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: And a corrector does not do what a highlighter does, and a concealer cannot do what a highlighter does, and vice versa.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then once I had created those 15 shades um with some pinks undertone, some neutral gold, and some some some neutrals itself, I can really play with all the different types of complexion and going for the foundation was the next sort of um you know uh next step that would make sense because I always use a mix of concealing, correcting, and highlighting, and foundation to create the perfect canvas.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: I never just use a foundation or I never just use a concealer, and that's when the colors from the concealer assortment and the foundation can sort of complement each other.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really having 30 colors all together that I can mix and match to create the perfect canvas.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: So when people say, oh, you know, I know people really want all of the shades, and I know like 40 to 50 shades is kind of like almost become the new standards, but you know, that's when you go in the store and maybe you can look at the colors.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: But I guarantee you that out of those 40 to 50 shades, you know, I would say at least half of them do not sell, they look too gray or ashy on the skin or too green.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't work.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_02: And you might have like the odd color that may sell once in a while, but also when you create a makeup brand, uh you have minimum order quantities, MOQ as in the lingo in the business.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and you can only create, let's say, you know, a thousand of each shade to begin with.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you gotta have make sure that if you invest in a thousand shades of the same color and you have, let's say, 40 of them, then you have 40,000 colors to sell by the time you're out of the factory.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're a new brand and you're trying to sell 40,000 concealers or foundation, good luck.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, unless you are a celebrity already and you get right into Sephora, then of course you have the ability to do that.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: But what people need to keep in mind is that if you're an indie brand, first of all, you do not have access to the same minimum order quantities, you know, like the it you gotta, you know, and the pricing is more because if you get less done.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're selling online, try to sell 50 shades of foundation.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: People are already confused when I have 15 of them.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it was very important for me that the concealers and the foundation complemented each other.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I can pretty much match anybody at this point.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: So with the sunset skin, what you experience, I'm so glad to hear that because it matched you.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's fantastic.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: But having the neutral, the gold, and the pink really allows me to play with the skin tones and not having to create 40 shades of yellow or you know, which was the trend in the 90s yellow, yellow, yellow, and then we have yellow.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, yeah.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: Skin tones, we could not even.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I and I completely agree with you.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I love I love what you said because here's my here's my take on it.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, Rihanna did it with the 50 shades, okay?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_03: She was the first one, and she did it, and she put it out there in Sephora, and we all saw it, and we all got to see that this is what true inclusivity looks like in the sense of like these are all the shades we have to do.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: Messaging is fantastic.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the messaging was there, okay.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: But now we have to think further.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: So, like now, we gotta stop.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: We don't need to be redundant and do what she did with her line.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: We need to figure out she was like, she created almost like this like visual for the consumers to look at, like, look at all the shades there are, you know, of consumers out there.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: Now, when you go forward, you need to be creating products that can further like clump up those skin, you know, the color categories in a way that it's working for everybody in that range that was created.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, you know what I mean?
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's just how pro like you have to think about it.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I get so irritated when companies are just like, we're expanding our shade range and they come out with 50 new colors.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, that's not expanding your shape.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it is, but it's like now you've just consumed like confused people.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: You've confused a lot of people, they don't know which shades to pick anymore.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: And with the pandemic, now, 10 years ago, when I launched my brand ECA, I remember doing my rounds of what we call desk sides, you know, when you go and meet all the journalists and the editors at, you know, at uh, you know, in in the boat building or at the um uh, you know, where Bazaar is and whatnot, you meet all the journalists and they would ask me, Oh, so where is it going to be launching?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Well, Bellcosmetics.com.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember like the dead silence that would fall into the room, and they were thinking, like, okay, well, I guess that's gonna be the end of this interview, you know, like he's not even gonna be published or he's not gonna be available anywhere else.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: But when you start as an indie brand, this that was my reality at the time.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then, of course, we wanted to expend, but it was a time when you know, 10 years ago, the the internet shopping was not established, it was just getting started, and surely nobody shopped for makeup or very little, and you still had to go to department stores, but the department store model was already started to to show cracks and starting to fail.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not because you're sold in a very popular store that you necessarily have the great makeup, it's just you had a great connection, you knew the right person, or uh you're a celebrity.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's all of these things come into play, but being you know, not super well known like Arianna and not having the plug to get into certain stores, we had to make it happen.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: And today, how many brands are solely based online and nobody looks at it, you know, nobody questions that anymore?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: And during the pandemic, all those stores that closed down.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, all those makeup lines that were pretty much heavily invested in brick and mortar had all to pivot and are now, you know, playing in my sandbox, Edgar.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: So you know, we were just a little too early, but you know, now everybody's awoken to this.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, it's you you've got to be a trailblazer at some point and make it happen and roll with the punches.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, that was my reality as an entrepreneur is having to, you know, deal with a bit of a dead silence during these interviews and work really hard at getting the word out, and that's why I'm gonna.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Celebrating my 10-year anniversary next year because you know it all paid off in the end, and we're still not present in a huge brick and mortar store.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: We have a few little independents here and there, spas and salons and little independent boutiques.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that having nailed a way to sell makeup online so people can find their shades and find a solution to work well with their skin tone without having to have 50 shades doesn't mean I'm not inclusive.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm inclusive, it's just that I have less of everything.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I can use concealer and the foundation, create that canvas, and I can and the shade match service that I have on my website.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have a team of five or ten makeup artists working with me.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: If you're sending a picture to want to find a recommendation for your concealer foundation, who guess who's gonna be replying?
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's me.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: No, I know my colors and I know what to recommend.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_03: No, Sebastian, honestly, here's the thing though.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think that there's two types of consumers.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: There's people who just buy the trend, and then there's people who really know what they want, and they want to find the right brand and the right product.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that second category is really why I created that, those are the people I created skincare anarchy for, because I want anyone listening right now to like, you know, if you're looking for a brand or a makeup, you know, just a makeup brand that you can really rely on and you want to use, you should be able to come to Skincare Anarchy and listen to this interview and understand that okay.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_03: This is a makeup brand created by a professional celebrity makeup artist with a lot of experience, and he knows what he's doing.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: Let me go there first before I go to you know, all of the counters and department stores and check out all those you don't need to do that, you can go to one place now, and this is you know what I mean, it's like a reference for them, right?
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like that's my point like you've gotta find the gems, yeah, yeah.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and indie brands are always the ones that are pushing the envelope and pushing the novelty, the technology, and the innovation.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I come from a big corporate background, and when you're in the corporate world, this is another little tip that's for everybody.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, when they're looking to create the next makeup collection and a new product, everybody just goes into the stores, they go and grab what's new, and then you bring it back into the lab, and then they talk about it.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: What do we like about this?
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: What can we do?
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: Should we create that as well?
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: What do we do?
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's really about they're all watching what the other people are doing, and then they create it again, or they do it, or they copy it, or they do the same thing, or they just put a different packaging on it.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: But that's how the big boxed corporate uh makeup brands usually function is they copy what the other brands do, and usually the they will copy the indie brands because we do it faster and and better than you know the bigger ones, because you know, we are makeup artists, or we are smaller brands and we have different ideas, and and when people enter the big corporate world, they I I guess they forget what creativity is about, and they just bring what the other ones do and they just try to put a new spin on it.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: But the new the indie brand does not often get the credit because that doesn't have the breadth of visual and and um and the budget to be talked about as much as a bigger brand.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I know my automat has already been knocked off a couple of times by certain uh brands out of shall remain nameless, and they're gonna take the credit for calling it a Matify mom or whatnot, because you know, Vale Cosmetics is not as widely known as they are, and that's fine, I'll still survive.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, as long as and that's one thing that uh a uh a partner of mine back in the day said is it's a basion.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: Don't you worry, it's that you will always have creativity.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: So if people copy you, then you know, take it as a compliment and move on.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: You can't you can harp on that.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: Let me tell you something, honestly.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_03: I love what you said, and what you said is the truth, and it's very, and there's not a lot of people out there that have the guts to say what you did, but I'm gonna back you a hundred percent and say that the the foundation of corporate America and all of these conglomerates and all these big but it is the foundation.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know what the foundation is stealing ideas and never giving credit for it.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's what's made all of this, and that's the freaking truth.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: I don't care anybody who's listening wants to challenge me on that.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's the truth because the ideas are taken from somewhere and they're never accounted for where they're where they came from and they're applied in companies that already have billion-dollar budgets and they can market the crap out of them, and then you never know where this idea originated from.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_03: That is genuinely something we see in every industry across the board.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's been happening for a very long time, and I hate it personally, because I think it's I mean, I think all of us hate it to some degree, but that's really what it is.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: And the thing is, here's here's the problem, though.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: You can take an idea, but you can't take someone's creative, you know, uh vision and their inspiration.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because if they came up with that, imagine what they're gonna come up with next.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: Because they already know why they came up with what they came up with.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_03: You can take the idea, but you can't take the logic of why they came up with it, right?
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_03: So, like that logic is a building block.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: But that's exactly it.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: And when you when you ask them the company, you know, how it was created or what's the inspiration behind it, you know, they'll come up with like a a a really lovely story, but it has a BS answer.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_03: They'll come up with a BS answer, yeah.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I mean it's true though.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes let's keep it here honest, 100%.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_03: I completely agree with you.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that's you know, this is really a big topic in in a lot of ways because it's it's really squashing the efforts of all of the amazing professionals that are creating these indie brands.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: Indie brands are no longer just made by, you know, some girl out in Kansas in her kitchen.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's indie brands are also brands made by professionals, brands made by experienced entrepreneurs who and you know, professionals in this industry or any industry that know what they're doing, and now they're ready to give the world exactly what they consider to be the solution to the problems they've seen.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what indie brands stand for in my eyes.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that we need to shift our idea, you know, of what an indie brand is and shift our thinking about, you know, what where should I go for, quote, a trusted product?
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_03: Go to the people who know.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_03: That's the that's the biggest trusted product is to find the makeup artist that understands the concern you're trying to try to fit, you know, fix.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'll give you an example.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, let me just I just want to add this in.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_03: When I was growing up, my biggest problem were those like the scarring from my acne because I have like those little, I, you know, I grew up with those little like pig type of scars, acne scars.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I always asked this, and I remember even sending Wayne Goss, um, because I loved Wayne, you know, his YouTube channel.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_03: I remember even sending every, everybody, dermatologists, I'd be like, how do I get these pig scars to like just be blurred?
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: Or whatever.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: And when I found, I don't remember like where I found it, it was a few different makeup artists that had written about it or they were referenced in articles, but they said you break off like a sponge, like one of those little um wedge sponges, and you dip that in foundation and you tap, tap, tap, and you just keep on tapping till those scars.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: And that is the only thing that worked for me.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: And guess where that information came from?
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_03: Professional makeup artists.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody knew the answer to that.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody knew where to, you know what I mean, direct me or yeah.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_03: So that's my point.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's my point.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I love it, I love it.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it's uh a little uh nugget that came from the the professional world, and but and not everybody has you know is on the lookout for the the most original and truest story.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think that we all have our our priorities, and you know, and it and it's fine, and I I've made my peace with it, otherwise I would have left the industry a long time ago.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: And but it it's great sometimes that you you get that little nudge or that little um accolade from you know, you know, somebody that you really admire, somebody that has like sort of like a kindred spirit, like you are ECHA, and it's and and that suffices me.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: That that's what keeps me going, and and I love it.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I know my clients, you know, when they post on on our social media or they uh write to us at customer service, and you know, I we're on we're so dedicated to making sure that everybody is happy and the comments that we get and the accolades like it's just beyond it.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: That feeds me.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that's that's my main, that's my main goal.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, hey, you know what?
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm here to say, and everyone listening, I really genuinely mean it.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, Sebastian's created a beautiful range of products and he knows what is needed and it shows in the line.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I really, really urge you guys go check out Veil Cosmetics.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to be tagging them obviously in the concept art for this episode.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, when you're genuine and when you make something the right way with the right emotion and the right, you know, intentions behind it, it's never gonna become old or like outdated.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_03: And that's exactly what I want people to take kind of take away from this conversation, is that there's innovation that doesn't have like a end date.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like true innovation doesn't have this like expiration date on it.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_03: If it works, it works.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_03: In the sense of like it, like the the logic and the innovation has to be there from the start.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I'm saying.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's what I see in Veil Cosmetics.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I see in Sebastian's journey and what he just shared with us.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I really urge you guys go check them out.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and Sebastian, thank you so much for this amazing um, you know, conversation and this interview.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_03: I I really appreciate your time and all the insights that you've shared with us.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was a pleasure talking with you and thank you for the uh the airtime and for the microphone and a chance to share uh some nuggets of of my story, a part of it.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I really enjoyed the conversation and I really, really love what you're doing with skincare and our key.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: So keep going.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, you are welcome back anytime you have the uh the time and your schedule for it because I'd love to get more tips from you, you know, with artistry and stuff.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_03: So um maybe we can have him, maybe you can do like a live first, Mash and that would be fun, like a makeup.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to do that, that'd be really fun.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: That'd be great.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would love that.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like just to watch your work and you know you know when they can happen.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm with it.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_03: So everyone listening, if you have any ideas for that component, please send them along as well.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because I would love that.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: That'd be really fun.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, check out the check out the um the company Veil Cosmetics.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like I said, it's a beautiful brand.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_03: You'll love it, I promise.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and yeah, just stay tuned for the next one, I guess.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_03: But thanks, Sebastian.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_03: Pleasure.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_03: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 54:50
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• 54:55
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• 55:55
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