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What we learned about the Cubs in April · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory Foul Territory Networks Cubs podcast. I'm
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic Patrick, we talked
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: about it for a lot of February and March and
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: as it was going on. But the Cubs had a
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: really tough opening stretch to start the season.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: I think you and I both felt that.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: They came out even like a little bit below five hundred,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: it would be fine.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: And they are seventeen and twelve.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: You can complain about a series loss to end it
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: to the Phillies at home. It wasn't the prettiest weekend.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: This team is not perfect. This team has flaws, but
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: they played some the best teams in the NL pretty much.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: They played best team now and it came out of
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: its seventeen and twelve. I feel like this is a huge,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: huge win, early season win for them. Doesn't mean their
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: work is done. It's April, but they've done. They've shown
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: us something and given fans something to be excited about
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: and optimistic about.
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I had the North Side Territories.
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: R and D Analytics department look up to see when
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: was the last time the Cubs went off to such
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: a good start, and it was last season, So seven
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: seventeen and twelve, they were seventeen and eleven after appearing
• 1:37
  Speaker 4: on Sunday Night Baseball last year, that weekend, as you
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: remember Sahadev Fnway Park, was kind of your demarcation line
• 1:45
  Speaker 4: of when the offense just disappeared for months. By the
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: just before the fourth of July, they were nine games
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: under five hundred, and you know they needed a furious
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: rally just to match the David Ross eighty three and
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: seventy nine record from the year prior.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: So I think that's very much at the front of
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: their minds right now.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, Jed Hoyer went there h the other day
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: when I asked him about it, and it was a
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: pretty open ended question, and he said, the idea that
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: we can exhale is wrong. You could hear the urgency
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: in Craig Counsel's voice when he was asked to assess
• 2:25
  Speaker 4: Ben Brown's body of work thus far, and he said,
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: we need better, frankly, and jameson Tyne said it after
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: Sunny Baseball as well, of that we can't take our
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: foot off the gas and you know, we've talked about
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: this before. You've seen how this front office is operating
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: with a sense of urgency. The patience is dwindling for
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: certain players, and so I think this messaging is healthy, right,
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: Like you don't like no one is like you know,
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: posting run differential banners field right now.
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: But like.
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: Going through it last night, of just the starting pictures
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: they faced, is it might be better than what you'd
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: face in the playoffs because by October a lot of
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: these pictures you know, are kind of fried or you know,
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: they're done for the year. It was an impressive group
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: of starters. They ran through some of the best bullpens
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: in the game, and to really create more hope, to
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: build some momentum is huge.
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: And it's not like it just like now it's now
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: it's a cake walk, right Like as I think council
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: talked about this earlier in the week, but it's like
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: we could be facing Paul Skins, you know.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: And they will be this week.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: They'll they'll face Paul Skins, and then they face the
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Giants who are nineteen and ten, and then they face
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: the Mets, who look like arguably the best team in
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: base It just doesn't stop really that they face before
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: that they face Milwaukee's always I mean, Milwaukee's not having
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: a great start, but there's still pesky there. There's still
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: going to be a team that's you know that they're
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: not going to be easy to beat, so there's no
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: let up, and they can't assume that, you know, October
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: baseball is in their future. Like it's like we need
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: to keep emphasizing that it's April twenty eight. The games matter,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: like it doesn't mean you dismiss them, but it is
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: so early to start deciding what this team is. But
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: I do think, you know, we can there are things
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: that we can look at that we've seen that that
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: we feel either have questions about or feel good about. Right,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Like we talked about the offense, We've talked about it
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: a lot, We've had a whole episode about it. This
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: is it feels like it's real. It feels like it's
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: not going to go in a two month swoon.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: For me.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I think when I look at the lineup, the thing
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: that I don't want to immediately go to negative town.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: But it's like Dansby Swanson needs to get hot, right,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Like he at some point he needs to turn a
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: corner here, and I don't. I'm not the type that's
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: gonna like say like he you know, his season is written,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: this is who he is for this season. But it's
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: clear that he's in one of those funks that we've
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: seen him be in and at some point he needs
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: to get right. I don't know the best way for
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: him to get out of it. I think when I
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: see people say like he needs to take a you know,
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: they need to sit him or whatever, like that's insane
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: when he's one of the best defensive shortstops in the
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: game and your team is kind of built on up
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: the middle defense. Maybe a day off, but an extended
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: sitting just doesn't make sense when he's that good of
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: a shortstop. If he was just an average or slightly
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: above average shortstop, I could listen to the suggestions of
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: maybe sitting him for an extended period, but at most
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: a day off, and other than that, it's like, do
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: you talk about moving him in the lineup? And Council
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: isn't the type that overthinks those things. He's not like
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: big on lineup, like he's just play you know player
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: best players and put him out there and make sure
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: you know your best guys in You're the top, and
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: that's his general takeaway.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: You are the mayor of negative town.
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: He comes out of this great start, and you're picking on,
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: you know, the gold gloves shortstop. I will say, you're
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: not wrong, but two names just jump out to me
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: when I think of the offense. Obviously, Kyle Tucker. I
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: know we all had questions, legitimate questions about you know,
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: the April weather at Wrigley, the pressure in a contract year,
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: not being surrounded by you know, the same awesome hitters
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: he had in Houston, And boy was I wrong on
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: that one. I think we're seeing just what could be
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: like one of the all time salary drives in free
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: agent history. And the other guy Pekrow Armstrong and we
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: had always wondered like when it would click, if it
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: could click, And I think the Cubs are sort of
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: downplaying this in the sense of like, look, he had
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: like two really bad weeks, then he had two great weeks.
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: But what he did within those two weeks, like guys
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: go entire major league careers without kind of impacting the
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: game in that many ways. And we talked about it
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: with our colleague Ken Rosenthal from Foul territory and the
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: athletic just he's working on a Peak Armstrong piece.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: I had just written a PCA piece. You were all over.
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: His you know, the first seeds planted of his potential
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: contract extension backets from training. Our group consensus, you cannot
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: overwrite pie Crow Armstrong like he is just too electric.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: On the field.
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: He's such a great talker, so introspective, really just thoughtful
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: with all of his answers and so like if the
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: comes going on deep run, he is the breakout star
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: this year.
• 8:17
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• 8:19
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• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: When it comes to Peter Armstrong Patrick, like that two
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: week slump or whatever it was like, and I saw
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: it yesterday too, like he hit the ball that barely
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: misses being a home run and then he rips another
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: one one hundred and seven miles per hour that you know,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: like isn't out. He was doing that when he was
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: slumping like this guy, like his slump was not some mess.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: He wasn't like this disaster at the plate where we're like, ugh, geez,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: look at all these strikeouts. How is he gonna hit
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: major league pitching at I don't know, Like I it's
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: it's a month into the season. I don't want to
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: declare that this is the real PCA, but the way
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: he's looked the entire month, even with poor results for
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: two weeks, I feel really good about his production and
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: what he is as a player. He's going to slump again,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: it's just what baseball is. You cannot produce for six
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: months straight at the highest level. But if he he
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: talks about it too, he has a really good head
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: on his shoulders as far as the way he looks
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: at things. He wants to minimize those those down moments, right,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: He wants to try and be steady. Now, of course
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: you want highs, high highs, but just minimize those down
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: moments there they're gonna come. U don't let it overwhelm you,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: don't overthink them. He seems to be doing a good
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: job of that, and I just I really am enjoying
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: watching his at bats and seeing like, like I said,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: just that out yesterday encourages me. Okay, he's making out
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: and they are rockets like that. You know, a guy
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: has to make a solid play on that's that's a
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: great sign for Pete crow Armstrong when it comes to
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: you know, the pitching staff, I mean Justin Steele. Losing
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Justin Steele, I don't think you can like underplay that, right,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: like he you know.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: It's a it's a huge it's a huge loss.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I don't think we have really yet to see the
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: impact of it, right because they're playing so well and
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: starting pitching is yet to be like this absolute glaring hole.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Colin Ray has been great. I probably haven't talked enough
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: about him. Really, he's he's been awesome, like just frankly like,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: he's been a really good like he's got like a
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: sub one e r I think, am I like, and
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: we're not. We're barely talking about him. He's not flashy,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: he's not a great quote, he's not he's not gonna
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: fist pump out there and do anything wild on the
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: on the mound, and his stuff isn't like, uh, you know,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: getting pitch Ninja or anything like that. So so Darling,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, but he's just getting the job done, right.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: I think that, you know, that's the one one end
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: of things. And then like Ben Brown is this up
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: and down act right now? And that's not and I'm
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: not This isn't a criticism of him as much as like,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: this is the reality of young starting pitchers. Justin Steele
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: went through this, uh two three years ago, whatever it
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: was three years ago. I guess and and Ben Brown
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: is trying to figure out how to like that start
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: to the Phillies game the Friday right no Saturday, I
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: thought he was on his way to a great outing.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Those first three innings, he was really good. And then
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: he got ahead of those first two hitters in the
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: fourth inning, and that's I think the young, young guy,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: young pitcher, the veteran picture minimizes that damage and keeps
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: it to two or three runs. He let it get
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: out of hand and it became a sixth run inning
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: right that fourth inning, and it just changed the entire
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: feeling of the game. I'm not saying like Ben Brown
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: needs to be removed from the rotation, but but Creig
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Counsel was pretty critical. I appreciate listening to Craig Counsel
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: because there's no pulling punches, there's no like he's he's
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: super honest with us, and I think he's super honest
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: with those guys. But he also the next day when
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: I asked him if he was like, because it was
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: so it was such a strong statement, I was like,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: is what's happening here? Is he considering pulling him from
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: the rotation that he's like, he's making his next start,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: like there was no hesitation, but he did make the
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: point like he needs to learn how to navid those situations.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: He needs to be better in those moments and this.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Is but he also pointed out he's like a couple
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: starts ago, he went six shoutout against the Dodgers, and
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: we can't forget that, right, Like, there's there's this, he
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: has this immense potential.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: How patient can they be?
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: How long can they wait for him to be this
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: consistent pitcher? I guess that depends on who the other
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: options are really And it's not like you can just
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: like it's not like they have some depth. I wouldn't
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: call it like the best pitchers in baseball depth until
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Kate Horton's ready.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: I do want to get to Horton in a second,
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: But I think an April specific thing that council mentioned
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: was because had a lot of off days this month
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: dueing part to the Church of Japan, and so that
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: has helped them navigate some of Ben Brown's issues. Now,
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: in the normal part of the season, you can't have
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: starters regularly going three and two thirds four in a.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: I mean, council that was off the top of his head.
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: Just like kind of rattling off Brown's outings, and no
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: doubt there are times where he looked like he could,
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: you know, take on anyone in the baseball world, and
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: then there are these, you know, frustration, frustrating, sort of
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: non competitive outings. You know that was prior to that
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: great Dodger Ctitium outing against the San Diego Padres, like
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: that was a game.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: The Cups felt like they probably should have won. And
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: so now.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: I don't know if Brown would have made their opening
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: day rotation if Javier Asad was healthy. I know they
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: wanted upside and Brown was there, but I still think
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: Asad's overall body of work and consistency probably would have
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: nudged him ahead. Then obviously would have had Brown coming
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: up with Justin Steele's injury. But the name I think
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: everyone's curious about is Kate Horton. What do you got
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: on him in Iowa?
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's legit right now, right, I mean, the
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: results are there. It's very clear that he's a different
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: pitcher than he was at the start.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: Of last season.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: And and obviously the injury occurred, but even before that,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: he didn't look like that top pitching prospect he's that
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: they they talked to him about how to be his
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: best self. We wrote a little bit about it in
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: in the Spring, just be more athletic. It sounds like
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: it was a little bit more specific, right, it always is, right,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Like there were some mechanical tweaks they wanted to make
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: to get him back to who he was. The velocities back,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: some of the pitch shape is like the fastball shape
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: is is better than it was.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Uh, it's get it.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: It has some you know characteristics that you know, these
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: guys are always looking for. It's it's got a little
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: bit of that cut ride act that the Cubs seem
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: to love.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: And and he's got two plus breaking balls and he's
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: right now. It's just I think the debate in the
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: front office and and with Craig Counsel is, you know, like,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: is there a point in like, Okay, this guy is
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: is elite and and he can he's at his best
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: right now. We don't waste these uh, don't waste these pitches. Right,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Let's let's bring him up to the big leagues.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: That's one school of thought. The other is like, he's
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: not fully there yet. And I think council kind of
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: made that point because I straight up asked him. I
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: was brought that point of view to him, and I
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: asked him, like, you know, let's not dance around this.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about Kad Horton and and like, what what
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: do you think when when you hear this point of view?
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: And he's like, it's a valid point of view. But
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: I think in Caid's instance, he needs we need to
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: get him right. We like, I want to see him
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: go out there and do it more often. He needs
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: to like make sure that he's healthy, feeling good, that
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: he's at his best, that he's not walking guys, that
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: you know, all these things. He's like, because there's a
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: level and this is the level MLB that where it's
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: just going to be that much harder. So you have
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: to dominate your current level and then then it'll happen
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: and and that you know. Another reporter quickly followed up
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: and said, like, you expect him to be here this
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: year essentially, And he didn't deny that, like he thinks,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: you know, like he's going to be up here at
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: some point this season, assuming health, assuming continued success. Right now,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: he looks like like back to that twenty twenty three version,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: that version.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: That had him, you know, among in the.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Debate for best pitching prospect in baseball, right he was,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: he was in that debate. He looks like that guy again.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: They're excited for him. You know, I don't know how.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to be that long, like
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, a month, two months. It's not
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: going to be a September call up. I don't think
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: unless something goes wrong, or unless these starters are just
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: so good, you know, unless Ben Brown develops some consistency
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: and Colin Ray just can do this for one hundred
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: and fifty innings, I'd be surprised if that's the case.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: And I think just in general, Craig Council likes to
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: have a lot of starters and he doesn't like like it.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: You know, Colin raised the type like ride this hot streak.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: But I'm not sure if you want to put more
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: than one hundred and twenty innings on him, so like,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: there are things like that that you have to consider.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: And one other thing, we talk about innings so much,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: they don't measure it that way anymore. And I think
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: we can go back and look at this has nothing
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: to do with the Cubs. But look at Garrett Crochet
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: last year. He wasn't limited by innings. It's because we
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: have different ways of measuring these things. Now you have
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: all this data and information on the body what like,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: they are measuring everything right Like. It's it's a little
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: annoying at times because it's just too much information to
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: do and you're like, it can be overwhelming, But I
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: think it's really useful for them. They know how to
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: use it, they understand it better. In general, they're treating
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: their pitchers differently in the minors. I'll write about this
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: at some point, but go look at guys like Jackson
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Wiggins and Nazia Mulay, Like these are young starters with
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: a ton of stuff and who are exciting, who have
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: never really pitched like more than like four innings, and
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: they're pushing them. They're they're they're consistently they're consistently upping
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: their pitch count and pushing them in innings. So they're
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: they're pushing these guys this year early it's April and
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: they're already pushing them and saying, go out there, pitch
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: five innings, get to seventy eighty whatever pitches, which is
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: not normal which is not something we've seen with the
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Cubs in the past. I think it's a change in philosophy,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: and I think it's it's a good direction to go
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: because you need to push these guys a little bit
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: and see what they can do. And then we'll see
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: how aggressive they are with call ups too, like promotions,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: and that includes Horton and these younger guys. Let's see
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: what level they get to and if that philosophy is
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: adjusting as well, which I think would be exciting for
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: fans because they want to see someone Like we've talked
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: so much, I think fans get a little sick of like, well,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: the pitching development's better, Okay, where are all these pitchers?
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: And then they've started to show up, like Porter Hodge
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: is there, Adustin Steel counts and you know there are
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: guys hobby or asad.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: They've come up obviously, but I think they want more
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: and more that they It needs to be a pipeline, right,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: that's what That's what people expect. So if you're going
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: to get love for your pitching development, you have to
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: continue to produce pitching.
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: We got three months until the trade deadline. Uh, I
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: think we can already see what the needs are going
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: to be. Now, stuff always pops up. You know, something
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: that's will be obvious on May first, may resolve itself.
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: Something we think is a sure thing a Memorial Day
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: changes by the fourth of July. Like that's just the
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: nature of a baseball season. But we know Jed Hoyer's
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: history always looking for at the deadline. I think you
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: can make the case for at least one circle of
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: trust late inning reliever. They always seem to be looking
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: for more starters because at your point, is well taken
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: that it's not just the number of innings that they
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: look at. But I think it comes to sort of
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: acknowledge that with certain players, like a Colin Ray, there's
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: diminishing returns after a certain innings threshold. So yeah, you're
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: gonna be looking at the Marlins, you know, to kind
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: of see what they're willing to do. You're gonna look
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: at you see which teams fall out of contention over
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: the next couple months, and then we're going to get
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: into this later this week. But you know, third base
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: is not a very There won't be many appealing external
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: options or like reasonable or attainable players, at least at
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: this moment. So their best solution is probably internally with
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: Matt Shaw, who you made you know, got the seat
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: on the flight to Japan, debuted in the Tokyo Series
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: and was given a very quick hook, and so he
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: gets to reset in Iowa work on some mechanical adjustments.
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: Still think we're going to see him back here relatively
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: quickly and is probably gonna have to go through the
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: stuff that we just talked about with pie Crow Armstrong.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, right, that's the reality of young players and.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: What do you like, Like you said, there's just not
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: that many options, Like I don't know how you can't
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: like create a third basement and nothing to trade for,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: like they they tried to answer, uh, you know, fill
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: the hole in in the spring, the Alex Bregman stuff
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: just did not happen for them, and so.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Now like, you know, who are you trading for?
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: They're like third there's just not that many good third
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: basemen in the league, right the ones, the good ones
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: are on good teams that aren't available. Uh, And the
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: only one that you could talk about is Nolan Aernado.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: And that's just like it's I mean, you'd put that
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: at like less than one percent chance that Saint Louis
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: is willing to move him to the Cubs and and
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: if they are, like what's the price? Like that's the
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: type of stuff that Jed and Carter hate doing, right,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Like they didn't love what they had to give up
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: for Kyle Tucker, but they did it because they know
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: who he is and the impact he could he could give.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Like you, you don't want to give up that for
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: a guy that's not at Kyle Tucker's level, Like Nolan
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Aronado was a superstar. He's a really good player. Now
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't put him at the same level he was at.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: And it's just not you know, it's hard to trade
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: with the Saint Louis Cardinals, have they Like I don't
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: even I can't think of a trade between the Cups
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: and the Cardinals.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Uh so I don't. I don't even know if it's happen,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: and I couldn't tell you. Oh wait, we're talking about one.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of time ago it was yeah, yeah, okay,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: so I can think of one.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: And I'm sure there are others on the list.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I can't think of one that isn't you know, on
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: the on everyone's list is the most lopsided trade mister.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: That like you're talking about minimal upgrades. Outside of that,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: if they're even upgrades, you're talking about adding players like
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: John Birdie, who is a perfectly good bench player and
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: he's filling in admirably.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: I don't. I think like they're not denying that he's
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: the answer, right, Like when.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: When he brought up the council, when brought up the lawyer,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: they keep saying, they keep coming back to Matt Shaw,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: like that's the answer to this question. He finally looks
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: like he's he's finding his rhythm a triple A again.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: I was keeping my eye on the box scores. Had
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: A had two really well struck balls yesterday, I think
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: double in a home run, hitting the ball hard again,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: And I.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Think that's what you want to see. You can't you're
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: not going to talk about one game. My assumption is
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: they want to see it for.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Like a couple of weeks and then But this isn't
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: that they don't want it to be a short I
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: mean a long stint at triple A, right. They want
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: to see progress whatever those exact things that they want
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: done with him. He's going to work on and then
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: and then my assumption is he's back in the not
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: too distant future. I guess we'll see how long those
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: those struggles at the major league level occur, right, because
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: you don't, I mean, I guess you'd take it. Right
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Like I was, I was looking at where they rank
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: in third base, and they're not awful. They're I mean,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: they're not good, but they ranked they ranked twentieth. There
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: are ten teams below them. I was surprised to see that.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: And the whole thing is like, it's it's what kind
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: of nil said about catcher and center field last year.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: You just don't want to be thirtieth, twenty ninth, twenty
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: eighth for extended periods of time. If he can be
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: just slightly below average, Matt Shaw, I think you'll take
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: that as long as he's playing competent defense and like
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: you know, batam eighth or whatever, and and just like
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: hope that others are carrying the load. And then if
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: he gets hot in August and September, great, if he
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: figures it out like PCA did and the middle of July,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: then that's that's huge, right, and and you need others
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: to carry the weight, and uh, hopefully he figures things
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: out of triple A.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: That's what they're that's what they're hoping hoping for.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: H All right, Patrick, we'll be back with with two
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: more episodes this week, including hopefully a guest to talk
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: a little Cubs with us and and uh yeah, I
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: carry this thing throughout three. Three in Pittsburgh with Paul
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Schemes on the mound for one of them.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: So won't be easy in Pittsburgh, but it is a
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: little bit of a letup from this early schedule.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: We'll see how they handle everything. And then three in Milwaukee.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: I'll be out there for the Milwaukee series. This is
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Northside Territory Foul Territory Networks Cubs podcast. Make sure to
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: subscribe to the YouTube channel. Subscribe to The Athletic where
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Patrick and I are on top of all things Cubs.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening to everyone. We appreciate it.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Take care,