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Mini: Thin Blue Line · Why We Do What We Do

0:03
Speaker 1: You're listening to why we do what we do. Welcome
0:15
Speaker 1: to why we do what we do? Mini. I'm your
0:18
Speaker 1: host Abraham, and I'm your host Shane. I've decided there's
0:22
Speaker 1: a way that I say Mini, whenever I introduced this.
0:25
Speaker 2: I love it. I fully support it. I have noticed that,
0:27
Speaker 2: and I'm like, that's great.
0:30
Speaker 1: We are a psychology podcast. We talk about the things
0:32
Speaker 1: that humans and non human animals do, and on Mondays
0:36
Speaker 1: we release these short formed episodes that are like ten
0:38
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes long where we just dig into a topic
0:42
Speaker 1: and then we get out of there and let you
0:43
Speaker 1: go about your day. We are out of Halloween Spooky
0:48
Speaker 1: season month, which is always a bittersweet goodbye, but it
0:52
Speaker 1: gives us time to prepare some new wonderful Halloween content
0:55
Speaker 1: for next year. In the meantime, we'll resume our sort
0:58
Speaker 1: of normal mini topics. It's just sort of struck me.
1:01
Speaker 1: I've seen this around a lot, so I decided we're
1:03
Speaker 1: going to talk about the thin blue line. So that
1:06
Speaker 1: is our topic for this many today.
1:08
Speaker 2: And if you're not familiar with the thin blue line,
1:10
Speaker 2: it is a symbol that is supposed to represent support
1:14
Speaker 2: of law enforcement. So you've probably seen it. It's usually
1:17
Speaker 2: like a black and white American flag with like a
1:19
Speaker 2: really thin blue line right in the middle of it.
1:22
Speaker 1: Yes, we'll describe the design and all of that, but
1:24
Speaker 1: before we dig into our topic here, i'd like to say,
1:26
Speaker 1: if you're joining us for the first time, welcome. We
1:28
Speaker 1: hope that you enjoyed this episode. If you're a turning listener,
1:31
Speaker 1: then welcome back. We're really happy either way, however you
1:33
Speaker 1: found us. If you would like to support us, you
1:35
Speaker 1: can join us on Patreon, leave us a rating or review,
1:37
Speaker 1: like subscribe, tell a friend, and of course just keep
1:40
Speaker 1: listening to episodes. Is really great. Yeah, if you feel
1:43
Speaker 1: like this one particularly resonates, then definitely share it with
1:47
Speaker 1: people who maybe need to hear it. Although we'll brace
1:49
Speaker 1: ourselves with the impact of the hate mail we might get.
1:52
Speaker 1: But I think that that is what we have to
1:54
Speaker 1: say before we dive into our topic here. And I
1:57
Speaker 1: do want to try and preface this by saying that
1:59
Speaker 1: we are are going to try and present this as
2:02
Speaker 1: objectively and as charitably as we can. Yea, but also
2:07
Speaker 1: like we're gonna call a spade a spade, We're gonna
2:09
Speaker 1: be real about the situation that we're dealing with Hereah. So,
2:13
Speaker 1: as you said, Shane, then the idea of the thin
2:16
Speaker 1: blue line is that it's meant to represent support of
2:19
Speaker 1: law enforcement. That I think is the crux of the
2:22
Speaker 1: foundation for the idea here is what most people who
2:26
Speaker 1: are sporting this logo or who say this phrase, or
2:31
Speaker 1: who employ this idea because it sort of started as
2:35
Speaker 1: a phrase before it was a logo, that's what they
2:38
Speaker 1: mean by it is that they're just indicating solidary and
2:41
Speaker 1: support of law enforcement more broadly. But it's also like,
2:45
Speaker 1: it's just a fact that the thin Blue line iconography
2:49
Speaker 1: and symbolism and the saying itself has become very politically charged.
2:54
Speaker 1: It has become a divisive symbol, and it has been
2:57
Speaker 1: used to inspire controversy and conflict even while it sits
3:02
Speaker 1: there trying to appear noble and innocent. And I know
3:05
Speaker 1: that people who who wear those and support them are
3:07
Speaker 1: going to say, well, that's not what it means. And
3:09
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's fine for that to not mean that
3:11
Speaker 1: to you, but that is what it means to some
3:14
Speaker 1: people like that. That's just what it is, and that's
3:17
Speaker 1: not how it's being used, and it's not how it's
3:20
Speaker 1: generally being used. It's very important.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So we're going to discuss the history of the
3:23
Speaker 2: thin blue line, what it purports, the mean, and what
3:25
Speaker 2: makes it controversial.
3:27
Speaker 1: All right, So, the thin blue line is a phrase
3:29
Speaker 1: associated with police because the color of their uniforms is
3:33
Speaker 1: commonly blue, and therefore blue represents the police. This is
3:37
Speaker 1: like a menonym for police. You'll see other employment of
3:40
Speaker 1: blue as a menonym for police, as in Blue Bloods,
3:43
Speaker 1: Boys in Blue, Blue Knights, k n I g HTS
3:47
Speaker 1: Back the Blue, Men in Blue and Blue Lives Matter,
3:51
Speaker 1: as like an aspect of how this shows up in
3:54
Speaker 1: the a similar space. Really, Yeah, and most sources agree
3:58
Speaker 1: that this is likely. It likely refers to the thin
4:01
Speaker 1: Red Line, which was a Scottish regiment of British soldiers
4:05
Speaker 1: wearing red uniforms who were badly outnumbered by by attacking
4:08
Speaker 1: Russian forces during the Crimean War in a eighteen fifty
4:12
Speaker 1: four battle. Yeah, so I think it was something like
4:15
Speaker 1: twenty five hundred against nine hundred or something like. They
4:19
Speaker 1: were very outnumbered the Scottish British forces. They held the
4:23
Speaker 1: ground against the attacks and they were immortalized in a
4:26
Speaker 1: poem by Lord Tennyson. The poem was called Charge the
4:29
Speaker 1: Light Brigade, and which he referred to the soldiers in
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Speaker 1: their red coats as the thin red line holding back
4:36
Speaker 1: the wave of attacking Russians in this war, and this
4:39
Speaker 1: came to symbolize defenders who stand between peace and chaos. Yeah.
4:44
Speaker 2: Now, over time the idea was appropriated to represent the
4:47
Speaker 2: similar stance that police take and putting themselves in harms
4:50
Speaker 2: way to maintain civil order and peace.
4:53
Speaker 1: So again it was kind of just a saying. It
4:56
Speaker 1: was a thing that people said. The thin Blue Line
4:58
Speaker 1: was the thing that they said. But in two thousand fourteen,
5:00
Speaker 1: then college student Andrew Jacob created a company called Thin
5:04
Speaker 1: Blue Line USA, and they created the now widely recognized
5:08
Speaker 1: logo that is sort of now just called the Thin
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Speaker 1: Blue Line, which is a black and white version of
5:13
Speaker 1: the American flag. American flag is usually red, white, and
5:17
Speaker 1: blue the stars and stripes, and this one is all
5:19
Speaker 1: black and white, in which the only color is the
5:21
Speaker 1: color blue, which takes the place of one of the
5:24
Speaker 1: white stripes, usually the one just below the stars. So
5:27
Speaker 1: if you see a black and white flag, but there
5:29
Speaker 1: is a blue line running below the stars, that's the
5:32
Speaker 1: thin Blue Line flag created by the Thin Blue Line
5:36
Speaker 1: USA company.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and some have argued that the black and white
5:39
Speaker 2: colors of the flag in this arrangement represent chaos and anarchy,
5:43
Speaker 2: and that the line represents the brave defenders who hold
5:45
Speaker 2: back against it. It's also, I think really important to
5:48
Speaker 2: note that like, by definition, any sort of like alteration
5:53
Speaker 2: of the American flag is supposed to be a criminal
5:56
Speaker 2: or unconstitutional. And so the fact that you see anything
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Speaker 2: that is the flag that's not the red, white and
6:01
Speaker 2: blue and stripes, like if it's like on somebody's bikini,
6:04
Speaker 2: or if it's different colors like that by itself is
6:06
Speaker 2: like supposed to be unconstitutional, which is a whole different conversation.
6:09
Speaker 1: It is, and it is kind of ironic. And the
6:12
Speaker 1: thing that holds us back from ads is the thin
6:15
Speaker 1: ad line and then it and the ads get through nice. Nice.
6:19
Speaker 2: They call it the thin green line.
6:21
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, very good.
6:30
Speaker 2: Because of money. I don't know if you all understood that,
6:33
Speaker 2: but it was because of money.
6:34
Speaker 1: Yes, because of money, Because Shane said, because of money,
6:38
Speaker 1: that means we're back. And so somewhere in there was
6:43
Speaker 1: an advertisement that happened. But okay, so we're talking about
6:46
Speaker 1: the idea of the Thin Blue Line. The guy who
6:48
Speaker 1: sort of who founded this company, Andrew Jacob, he maintains
6:52
Speaker 1: that this was always intended to represent peace and support
6:56
Speaker 1: of law enforcement full stop. That was like, the values
6:59
Speaker 1: he espoused publicly are that this is supposed to be
7:04
Speaker 1: just supportive law enforcement. And I think there was a
7:07
Speaker 1: story I read where he maybe attended the funeral of
7:10
Speaker 1: a copy who had died in the line of duty,
7:12
Speaker 1: and so he was sort of seeing this as like,
7:14
Speaker 1: you know, I want to have this symbol to represent
7:16
Speaker 1: I really feel for these people who were out there
7:18
Speaker 1: doing this job. And so that was sort of the idea.
7:22
Speaker 1: And most law enforcement and generally pro authoritarian leaning organizations
7:26
Speaker 1: also claim that the Thin Blue Line is a political
7:30
Speaker 1: It is not meant to have political affiliation. It's just
7:33
Speaker 1: meant to show for support for law enforcement and it's
7:35
Speaker 1: meant to inspire peace. That's their idea.
7:38
Speaker 2: Sure, I mean, but you had a specific experience going
7:40
Speaker 2: on their website, didn't you.
7:42
Speaker 1: True. Yeah, while I was reading about this, I also
7:44
Speaker 1: found a bunch of ads like these are multiple different
7:47
Speaker 1: ads for gun holsters that the entire holster was the
7:50
Speaker 1: thin blue like flag. So I guess piece is out
7:53
Speaker 1: the window.
7:55
Speaker 2: Sure, I think if you are espousing piece and advertising weaponry, like,
7:59
Speaker 2: that's probably not quite not quite there.
8:01
Speaker 1: My friends, this original Iron Man I guess company was
8:05
Speaker 1: doing that. They're like peace through violence.
8:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly, peace through advancement and technology
8:12
Speaker 2: in the warfare or whatever he said. He said something
8:14
Speaker 2: like that. I was like, oh, yeah, that's okay, all right.
8:16
Speaker 1: That's very much like Trump's. Trump's whole thing too is
8:19
Speaker 1: peace through violence, peace through genocide. And I'm like, those
8:22
Speaker 1: are those are contradictory terms.
8:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's very nineteen eighty four. Now.
8:27
Speaker 2: Others argue that the thin blue line seems to represent
8:30
Speaker 2: a line of silence in the many documented cases of
8:33
Speaker 2: police brutality and the lack of accountability for brutality, racism,
8:37
Speaker 2: and violence.
8:38
Speaker 1: Yeah so, I mean that's that is an argument people
8:41
Speaker 1: have made, is send like the thin blue line instead
8:43
Speaker 1: represents protecting people from accountability when they do things that
8:46
Speaker 1: are clearly unlawful, when they target people because of the race,
8:49
Speaker 1: when they are overly aggressive beyond what the circumstances might
8:53
Speaker 1: call for. And importantly is how the thin Blue line
8:58
Speaker 1: flag has been used, has been flown at Trump rallies
9:02
Speaker 1: slash white supremacist rallies. It has been flown alongside Confederate flags,
9:07
Speaker 1: which are deliberately flown to represent the slavery and racism.
9:11
Speaker 1: It's been flown alongside swastika's or had swastikas embedded into
9:16
Speaker 1: the thin blue line flag. Like there was a version
9:18
Speaker 1: of the thin blue line flag that has the thin
9:20
Speaker 1: blue line come in, take a ninety degree angle and
9:23
Speaker 1: go down and the rest of the thin blue line
9:25
Speaker 1: is like as like part of a swastika. Like you
9:29
Speaker 1: can clearly see the swastika in the imagery, and it
9:32
Speaker 1: has been adopted by domestic terrorist hate groups such as
9:35
Speaker 1: the Proud Boys. So like whether or not that was
9:38
Speaker 1: the intention, that is the alignment that it has found
9:41
Speaker 1: itself with. That is where it's also being employed heavily
9:45
Speaker 1: heavily employed and becoming representative of that stance, which I
9:51
Speaker 1: mean anything could be co opted by anybody, but like
9:54
Speaker 1: clearly something resonated with that to those groups.
9:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Jacob's the owner of the company, disavows some
10:01
Speaker 2: of the racist uses of the flags, citing that it
10:04
Speaker 2: is a cause for unity, like the idea saying like,
10:06
Speaker 2: oh no, no, it's not what it's about. Most of
10:09
Speaker 2: the time. It's supposed to be about bringing people together
10:11
Speaker 2: and about peace. But you know, it's fine that they're
10:12
Speaker 2: still buying my things and still making me money because
10:15
Speaker 2: they're still buying my things, even if they are terrible,
10:17
Speaker 2: you know.
10:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's not to say that he specifically endorses
10:21
Speaker 1: any of them. He just like he's disavowed some of them.
10:24
Speaker 2: Some of them, Yeah, some of them, which that should
10:27
Speaker 2: not be a difficult conversation.
10:28
Speaker 1: It should be all of them. But you know, yeah,
10:30
Speaker 1: we as a podcast disavow all affiliations with any and
10:33
Speaker 1: all authoritarian Nazi Yeah, those groups, all those groups. Yeah,
10:40
Speaker 1: see how easy that was. There's any we missed, throw
10:42
Speaker 1: them in the bucket. If they are a domestic terrorist,
10:44
Speaker 1: heyite group, then we do not support their efforts or
10:47
Speaker 1: there we say them all right. Yeah, And like furthermore,
10:51
Speaker 1: like there are professors who say, like it kind of
10:54
Speaker 1: like whatever the intention was the flag, it is actively
10:58
Speaker 1: being used to create an US versus them mentality. Yeah,
11:01
Speaker 1: whether or not it was supposed to inspire unity, whether
11:04
Speaker 1: or not it was supposed to inspire piece, it is
11:06
Speaker 1: being used to inspire division. It is being used to
11:10
Speaker 1: create discord.
11:11
Speaker 2: Right, And at this point, it seems likely that most
11:14
Speaker 2: people who adopt this iconography are aware of the controversy
11:18
Speaker 2: and specifically select this icon to symbolically say you you,
11:21
Speaker 2: you deserve to be brutalized to anyone who might be
11:24
Speaker 2: harmed by police. Like there's so much of a value
11:27
Speaker 2: of just trying to troll and upset people and to
11:31
Speaker 2: be confrontational for no reason. Among the group of people
11:34
Speaker 2: that would put this on their vehicles or fly these flags,
11:37
Speaker 2: Like there's so much of a just an antagonistic viewpoint
11:41
Speaker 2: that like they've got to be aware of it, and
11:44
Speaker 2: they're for sure doing it just to get a rise
11:46
Speaker 2: out of people.
11:47
Speaker 1: I mean, the controversy is like widely widely known and understood,
11:52
Speaker 1: and I could believe that there are people who are
11:53
Speaker 1: less familiar and they see it and they're like, oh,
11:55
Speaker 1: this supports law enforcement. Okay, I'll get one of those.
11:57
Speaker 1: That's great, But like the over majority of people, I believe,
12:01
Speaker 1: and I could be very wrong, Like I don't have
12:03
Speaker 1: data to back this up, but I really think that
12:06
Speaker 1: like you are probably somewhat aware of the controversy, if
12:10
Speaker 1: not intimately aware, and then you chose that you chose,
12:13
Speaker 1: and you put it up because you're like, I want
12:15
Speaker 1: to piss you off. I want to say I hope
12:18
Speaker 1: the cops take you down, like they're on my side,
12:21
Speaker 1: I'm on their side. We are against you. And again,
12:24
Speaker 1: that's using it as division, that's using it as hate.
12:27
Speaker 1: It's using it to spark anger and resentment and feelings
12:30
Speaker 1: in people. And like, that's the way it's being used,
12:33
Speaker 1: whether or not you feel like that's what its intentions were,
12:36
Speaker 1: that is how it's being used. Yeah, and there may
12:39
Speaker 1: be some amount of people who also choose it because
12:41
Speaker 1: they're ingratiating themselves to police and they're sort of saying, hey,
12:44
Speaker 1: take it easy, I'm on your side, because of course
12:47
Speaker 1: there are sides existing in the first place, and that
12:50
Speaker 1: could be some inspiration. But yeah, that is how it's
12:53
Speaker 1: being used. And I do think there are going to
12:55
Speaker 1: be people who are somewhat innocent about it, but I
12:57
Speaker 1: think most people are doing this as a choice.
12:59
Speaker 2: I want to unpack that, like, tak it easy, I'm
13:01
Speaker 2: on your side viewpoint in understanding that you understand that
13:05
Speaker 2: you're trying to appease police officers and trying to avoid
13:09
Speaker 2: some level of coercion and punishment from a system. Yeah,
13:12
Speaker 2: like that tells us everything that you need to know.
13:13
Speaker 2: You're going no, no, no, no, no, please don't, And that
13:16
Speaker 2: should speak volumes to your viewpoint. Even if you are
13:19
Speaker 2: supportive of police, that should speak volumes to your viewpoint
13:22
Speaker 2: about how you view the police, which is oftentimes a coercive,
13:26
Speaker 2: violent group of people who are trying to take you down,
13:29
Speaker 2: who are trying to hurt you, who are trying to
13:31
Speaker 2: take money from you, who are trying to brutalize you
13:33
Speaker 2: in different ways, and will brutalize you in more ways
13:36
Speaker 2: if you're a different color. So of course, not all
13:39
Speaker 2: of them. Like I had a local police officer that
13:41
Speaker 2: taught me how to ride a bike and he was
13:42
Speaker 2: a lovely person. But the system at largest and we
13:45
Speaker 2: know that, and ingratiating yourselves to them suggests that you
13:48
Speaker 2: know that there's a problem.
13:50
Speaker 1: That's like a really good point. It's like by saying like, hey,
13:53
Speaker 1: don't shoot, I'm on your side, you're sort of saying
13:56
Speaker 1: like you have to be afraid to make that claim
13:59
Speaker 1: in the first place, So you're sort of inadvertently admitting
14:02
Speaker 1: the problem by trying to avoid the problem from arising. Yeah,
14:07
Speaker 1: and I think again, I think that people know this.
14:10
Speaker 1: I think that the vast majority of people know this.
14:12
Speaker 1: They'll pretend that they don't, they'll say that they don't,
14:14
Speaker 1: they'll say that that's not true. But I mean, if
14:16
Speaker 1: you really search your soul about this, you know, you
14:18
Speaker 1: know that this is the situation that's going on. And
14:22
Speaker 1: I'll be fair and say that, like I have done
14:24
Speaker 1: a lot of work personally to make sure that I
14:28
Speaker 1: see all people as people and to look at this
14:31
Speaker 1: as a system's problem, and that I don't think that
14:34
Speaker 1: we should be killing anyone police or otherwise or other
14:38
Speaker 1: humans at all. So like I'm not in favor of
14:42
Speaker 1: any aspect of violence that people do to one another.
14:45
Speaker 1: And so I think that like where I actually come
14:48
Speaker 1: down on this or I guess it doesn't even kind
14:50
Speaker 1: of matter. But like, again, the fact of the matter
14:52
Speaker 1: here is that like this is a symbol that has
14:56
Speaker 1: come to represent and inspire divisiveness, which has led to violence.
15:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's exactly it. It's inspired more violence even
15:04
Speaker 2: against police while claiming to support peace. So like we've
15:07
Speaker 2: seen that happen. I mean, January sixth is a perfect example,
15:10
Speaker 2: like where was the thin Blue line supporters of that
15:12
Speaker 2: time when when the police officers were killed? So like
15:15
Speaker 2: here we've got the situation where it no longer represents
15:18
Speaker 2: what it was espoused to mean, Like it no longer
15:21
Speaker 2: represents what it was originally intended to mean, for the
15:23
Speaker 2: same reasons that the swastika does not mean what it
15:25
Speaker 2: was originally intended to mean anymore. So I think it's
15:28
Speaker 2: really important to keep that in mind as you start
15:30
Speaker 2: to kind of unpack this and think about what symbolism
15:33
Speaker 2: means and how it shifts and how it evolves given
15:35
Speaker 2: certain context, and how things like this get co opted
15:38
Speaker 2: by people who have more nefarious views.
15:42
Speaker 1: I actually think that there are going to be a
15:43
Speaker 1: lot of police who are, like I am not on
15:45
Speaker 1: the side of those people who are super pro Nazi,
15:47
Speaker 1: who are like in these hate groups, and like they
15:49
Speaker 1: would arrest them for doing any kind of violence or
15:52
Speaker 1: criminal things just as fast as they might arrest anyone
15:56
Speaker 1: and understanding that like those people have co opt did
16:00
Speaker 1: that signed to mean something? Right? And you know, I
16:04
Speaker 1: think that there is a there's an element of vigilante
16:07
Speaker 1: justice also that they sort of feel like they're taking
16:09
Speaker 1: on by using that iconography. But right anyway, So yeah,
16:13
Speaker 1: that's the history of the thin Blue line. That's how
16:15
Speaker 1: it's currently being used. And again, like as I said,
16:17
Speaker 1: people are going to disagree with me, and I'm like
16:18
Speaker 1: to think like it just it just is like whether
16:22
Speaker 1: or not that's how you how you mean it. People
16:25
Speaker 1: are flying that flag at white supremacist rallies they are right, like,
16:29
Speaker 1: that's just the thing that's happening. Like nobody's flying a
16:31
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders flag and a white supremacist rally, right, and
16:33
Speaker 1: nobody's flying thin blue line flags at Bernie Sanders rallies
16:37
Speaker 1: like you do. You see them in very clearly delineated
16:40
Speaker 1: spaces where you have people who are like pro authoritarian
16:43
Speaker 1: government takeover and white supremacists and racism and hatred and
16:46
Speaker 1: bigotry and war flying that flag and you have people
16:49
Speaker 1: on the other side who are who don't fly that flag.
16:51
Speaker 1: Like though, that's just like whether or not that's what
16:54
Speaker 1: you want it to mean, that's what's currently happening.
16:56
Speaker 2: There's something about say, do correspondence to say here, you know,
17:00
Speaker 2: like they're saying they want peace and they're at the
17:02
Speaker 2: most violent crowds. So here we are well.
17:05
Speaker 1: We've gone very long for a many Maybe we should
17:06
Speaker 1: have just made this a full length discussion, but that's
17:08
Speaker 1: what we have to say right now about the thin
17:10
Speaker 1: blue line. If you have things you like to say
17:11
Speaker 1: about this, we do accept constructive criticism. You can email
17:14
Speaker 1: us directly at info at wwdwwdpodcast dot com. If you
17:18
Speaker 1: want to say hateful, nonsensical things, then I'll simply ignore you,
17:20
Speaker 1: so that's fine, but don't bother with it. If you
17:23
Speaker 1: have something nice to saying, you like to provide constructive
17:25
Speaker 1: criticism or just tell us we did such a good job,
17:27
Speaker 1: you can email us at that email adjuss I just
17:28
Speaker 1: gave you. You can also reach us on the social media platforms.
17:31
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Speaker 1: join a very cool group of people, and I will
17:37
Speaker 1: read your name at the end of full length discussions.
17:40
Speaker 1: We can also like subscribe to leave a rating and
17:42
Speaker 1: review and tell a friend and then thank you so
17:44
Speaker 1: much to my team of people writing in fact checking
17:46
Speaker 1: from Shane and myself. Thank you for recording with me today. Shane,
17:49
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me our social media coordin is
17:51
Speaker 1: Emma Wilson, and our audio engineer who is going to
17:53
Speaker 1: have to cut this one to shreds to make it
17:55
Speaker 1: make sense is Justin. Thank you for doing your awesome work, Justin.
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Speaker 2: And thank you for being sohuch handsome.
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Speaker 1: Indeed, is there anything that I miss or you'd like
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Speaker 1: to add before we wrap this one up?
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Speaker 2: No? I think that covers it for this one, all right?
18:05
Speaker 1: Perfect? Then Why We Do What We Do Mini is out.
18:08
Speaker 1: Bye peace. You've been listening to Why We Do What
18:12
Speaker 1: We Do.
18:13
Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
18:16
Speaker 2: going to WWDWWD podcast dot com. Thanks for listening, and
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Speaker 2: we hope you have an awesome day