Latest / The Drive Straya Podcast / Wild at Hart - Crocs, Conservation & Adventure with Angela Freeman

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Wild at Hart - Crocs, Conservation & Adventure with Angela Freeman · The Drive Straya Podcast

0:01
SPEAKER_04: G'day and welcome to Drive Stralia, the show where we chuck a swag in the back, crank the tunes, and chase the horizon from one end of this ridiculously beautiful country to the other.
0:12
SPEAKER_04: I'm your host, Tony George.
0:14
SPEAKER_04: And if you're new here, well, here's the deal.
0:17
SPEAKER_04: This is a podcast about what we all love the most.
0:20
SPEAKER_04: That is Drive Straya.
0:22
SPEAKER_04: We're going to get under the bonnet of Australia's drive market, take the engine apart, explore what makes it tick, and even shampoo the mud flaps and chat with the people and personalities who bring Australia's road trip experiences to life.
0:37
SPEAKER_04: From iconic drives and hidden gems to great places to stay and things to see and do, we'll share epic insider tips and a stack of stories and adventures from the road.
0:48
SPEAKER_04: Plus, we'll bring you inspiration and help guide you towards making your next Drive Straya road trip one to remember.
0:57
SPEAKER_04: And today's guest, well, they're an absolute ripper.
1:08
SPEAKER_03: The same times of battles will be too vibe.
1:15
SPEAKER_04: This episode of the Drive Stralia Podcast, we're motoring up to North Queensland, tropical North Queensland, the World Heritage Listed wet tropics of Queensland.
1:25
SPEAKER_04: Because you just can't talk about Australian road trip culture without talking about this magnificent region.
1:32
SPEAKER_04: Joining me today is a woman who is among the true pioneers of Tropical North Queensland's tourism industry.
1:38
SPEAKER_04: The group director of sales and marketing at Wildlife Tropical North Queensland and one of the nicest people I know, Angela Freeman.
1:47
SPEAKER_04: Now, Angela doesn't just run and market this group's tourist attractions.
1:52
SPEAKER_04: She farms crocodiles, designs and exports crockskin handbags, and somehow still finds time to sit on tourism boards.
2:01
SPEAKER_04: So whether you're driving right now or stuck at a desk dreaming of your next escape or genuinely planning on doing a lap of this great country, pull up a chair, get comfy in your car seat because this chat, it's gonna be a cracker.
2:16
SPEAKER_04: Right now, it's a very big drive, Australia.
2:19
SPEAKER_04: Welcome to the one the only, Angela Freeman.
2:22
SPEAKER_04: Angela, thank you so much for joining us.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, what an introduction, Tony.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm quite flabbergasted, but I'll tell I'll take it, I'll take everything that's uh that's thrown out of me th in this uh particular circumstance.
2:34
SPEAKER_04: I'll take flabbergasted any day, thank you.
2:37
SPEAKER_04: Very nice.
2:37
SPEAKER_04: Angela, now look, before we get into crocodiles and handbags and exhibitions of ancient predators, I want to go right back with you.
2:46
SPEAKER_04: The year is 1980, or as I would call it, my full head of hair days.
2:52
SPEAKER_04: Now, I'd love to know just a little bit about your first venture.
2:56
SPEAKER_04: I believe it was Wild World in Palm Cove in Cannes.
3:00
SPEAKER_04: Tell us how how did that come about?
3:03
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, so so that we're all fully disclosed, um I uh became involved with the family that did Wild World, which was obviously became my husband's family, the Freeman family.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, so so basically um that is a very interesting story.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: Now let's cast our minds back.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: Um so basically um what actually truly happened um was there was a bird park on that side at Palm Cove.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Now at that at that time there's lots of caravan parks around the area.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: Um there was a bird park, and the man who owned the park was a bit naughty, and he got into trouble for uh for basically smuggling birds.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: Um and I mean I think he was convicted for it, so I don't think we're being any defamatory there.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Um in any event, um basically the um uh government went in and um euthanased every single bird that was in the on the premises, and then they um had nothing left but I think a couple of emus and a couple of wallabies, I think, was all that was there.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: Um so my husband's father, Harry Freeman, and his wife Enaid were real estate agents and property developers, and they saw that as a bit of an opportunity.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: So they they bought that property, uh, you know, a closed-down zoo.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: Um similarly at the same time, there was the emergence of the Japanese market um in Hawaii, and they basically set about um creating a new park, which was originally called the Australian Bird Park.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: Um so it was on a smaller parcel of land, and um that was when I first recalled going out there because my mother was a bird fanatic.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: Um so basically we went out there just as ordinary folk visiting.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then um later on I um met um their daughter um at school and um ended up becoming good friends because we both have a passion for horses and horse riding.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: Um and the the other block of land next to the bird park was a horse paddock.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: So then they uh developed um the horse paddock into a crock park, which was Australian Crock Park, and then came Wild World, which was the the the merger of the whole park together.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: Right.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: Um and from there um the whole tourism industry absolutely I mean, yeah, by that stage there was uh international flights taking place, there's all things going on, and so then um it evolved into the night zoo, yeah.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: Um and and then the crazy cane toad races.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: So I think that was the first place we had the cane toad races.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: Um and uh and the park um grew from there and we went into exotic animals and all kinds of things.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: So um, I mean, a fair bit of that time I was at high school, um, and then um, yeah, and then basically they um ended up buying around that time they ended up um uh having a uh doing a deal with Gary Zilfish and buying um the Hartley's Creek Park, right?
6:18
SPEAKER_00: Which was at that time on the banks of Hartley's Creek.
6:21
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so okay, so I'll take it up from you there because uh I believe around uh 1986, is that around the time there?
6:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:30
SPEAKER_04: So just for people that haven't travelled to that area before, Hartley's Creek is actually situated roughly about uh halfway between Cairns and Port Douglas on the road.
6:40
SPEAKER_04: And it really is one of the most magnificent scenic drives that Australia has to offer.
6:45
SPEAKER_04: Take me back though to the beginning of uh when the family took on Hartley's Creek Crocodile Farm.
6:52
SPEAKER_04: Um that was back in 1986.
6:54
SPEAKER_04: Tell me what did that sort of area and what did uh specifically that site look like at that time?
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Um terrifying.
7:03
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: Um and and not in a just it's just that you know, that's just how North Queensland was at the time.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: Um everything was just stuck together with sticky tape and and bandages and and you know, staples and Christ knows what else.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: Basically, um the the park at that stage had no actual electricity supply originally.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: Um so the the whole thing ran on a generator.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: Um so basically um there was uh two flats at the side and and they those flats at the side um used to be the original entrance buildings, so they actually did a whole new conversion and and fitted out um what was originally set off to be a house.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, they took they they flipped the whole park around, um, uh even though it was small and just did a whole reinvention of it and and made this lovely entrance area, which had nice verandas and things like that.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Then they got this gigantic crocodile which was from Dark Ages.
8:07
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: It was all sort of sort of crazy mould thing that they bought, but anyway, they ended up with this big crocodile out the front.
8:13
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: And um, and they just um went through and did the did the Freeman thing, they're property developers, and they basically made the whole park look look quite beautiful.
8:24
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, but to start off with, it was um a bit of a nightmare.
8:28
SPEAKER_04: Okay, so uh I believe that down the track from 8687 where you're talking about, um for example, I think it was on a different site um to what it is now.
8:41
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
8:41
SPEAKER_04: So just try and give people in their cars and and our listeners a bit of a an idea.
8:47
SPEAKER_04: Uh is it true that before you could change sites you had to actually rehabilitate the land on the new site that you wanted to go?
8:55
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
8:55
SPEAKER_04: What what was at that site to rehabilitate?
8:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh, another nightmare.
9:00
SPEAKER_04: Right.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, so basically that site was uh at that time an occupational licence, which was then upgraded to leasehold.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: So anyone from country areas knows sort of the whole idea that you sort of often start with a a fairly weak sort of a tenure and then upgrade and so forth.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: So so that obviously involves you have to obviously do improvements in order to get your leasehold and so forth.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: So all that was involved.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: So basically to describe it, um, we'd had the Quaid Road put through, which meant that all of the um overburden from that road through various cyclones and things had actually flowed down onto the site.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: So there was in some places three three or two to three meters of silt all over the place.
9:46
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: Um there was uh a hippie commune, which uh there was a marijuana plantation, there was uh the the town dump um uh there was um various illegal things that had taken place there.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: There'd been an illegal um sawmill, so there was lots and lots of bits and pieces left over from that.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: So uh then it had been uh they'd tried agriculture, they'd tried different things, and then the site had been left abandoned.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: Um and then at some stage uh Warren Inch um ended up working as a real estate agent for Peter's father.
10:23
SPEAKER_04: Yep, uh Warren Inch being uh federal member of the federal government.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: Federal member to Parliament.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: Well now well, recently federal member for parliament, but Warren at that stage was just Warren who had originally camped out the front of the zoo, at the front of the bird park, in his station wagon, unemployed, um, basically, and he's quite happy to he'll confirm this, unemployed um and and uh sat there until Harry gave him a job.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: And he started there as a birdkeeper and then ended up getting into crocodiles.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: So that's sort of another whole side issue there.
10:55
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: But basically, um Warren then um became um friends, if you like, with the fellow who was um the the last occupant, and they agreed on the exchange of a truck.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: There was a particular type of truck that this fellow wanted, and there was an exchange of the truck for the whole enormous tenure, which included right the way through to nearly the rifle range and everything, the entire valley at that stage there was the occupational license.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then they had to start from there.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: So basically, start with this absolutely degraded site, then um uh fast forward only literally a matter of months, and um, and then suddenly the Wet Tropics World Heritage Area is declared, and um, so it was this another layer of complication.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: And so then we were dealing with or they were dealing with World Heritage, and in some ways it seemed like a big drama at the time, but in some ways it was an absolute blessing because it required that you actually use only the natural compatible trees, vegetation from that site.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: Um so when you go through different times of droughts and floods and things like that, if you had exotic plants on that site, it would be an absolute disaster.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: But at least by having what is compatible to the site, uh everything survives through it, if that makes any sense.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: Um so in any event, there were there was enormous problems with erosion and all sorts of things.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: So there was a site plan done.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: Water had to be got, so they basically um Peter's father was uh um uh can uh can basically um uh do the do the water thing with the with the water divine.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: The water divining.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: Um so he divined a a spot and they got a bore down and all that kind of stuff and then started the whole thing.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: And then somewhere amongst all of that complexity, they suddenly decided that they wanted to start farming crocodiles.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: So it's sort of like all happening all at once.
12:54
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, okay.
12:55
SPEAKER_04: So look, we're gonna we're gonna get more into partley's uh coming up very soon.
13:01
SPEAKER_04: But around that time, I mean it's taken you five years to develop around there, I believe, until your first visitor walkthrough.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh, quite a long, long time.
13:10
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
13:11
SPEAKER_04: So we'll get onto the the the more recent um site.
13:16
SPEAKER_04: But around that time as well, I believe your family's starting to put roots down in Coranda as well, business wise.
13:23
SPEAKER_04: What are you doing there?
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Um oh yeah, that was just um an opportunity that came up um for that was yeah, that was a fair ways down the track, actually, to be honest.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Um uh that was getting closer to when the new Hartleys opened.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, but basically um there was an opportunity came up um with um one of the owners of the markets up in Caranda.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: Um he'd had a vision that um a gentleman called Con Bambacis, who I believe also used to be a politician who came came from Adelaide, so there's a bit of a thread running through here.
14:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: Um always handy.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, but anyway, so Con, very, very charming man and charmed my husband into um into agreeing to uh to basically look at putting a a small koala park into uh into Caranda.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: Um the next door neighbours at that time for us were Birdworld.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: Um we later got involved with that, but basically it started off as the as the koala slash wildlife park.
14:27
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
14:28
SPEAKER_04: Wow, and Birdworld as well up there?
14:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well later on um the Gale family um basically approached us with the idea of taking that on in partnership because they weren't particularly um uh by their own admission, they're not particularly experienced at running zoos, so basically they felt that they needed some help.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: So uh rather than trying to reinvent the wheel, they um they approached us to go into partnership with them.
14:54
SPEAKER_00: So so we've and that's been going on for a very long time now.
14:58
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
14:59
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
14:59
SPEAKER_04: So we'll move on to uh a lot more recent.
15:04
SPEAKER_04: So I'll I'll paint a picture for anyone that hasn't been before because it is a magnificent place, Hartleys, it really is.
15:11
SPEAKER_04: So it's not just about the boat ride, is it?
15:14
SPEAKER_04: Uh among the crocodiles and things, it is six different precincts that within.
15:21
SPEAKER_04: Could you run through what the precincts are so people uh know what they're coming towards?
15:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, obviously the the whole idea was the lagoon would be the centerpiece.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: So basically that starts to give people the picture of uh the evolution of the site.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: So we we give people a bit of a background to that.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: Um so you've got the lagoon area.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: Um we also have the commercial crocodile farm side.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: Um we then have our rainforest area.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: So basically that was an area that required an enormous amount of work because we basically had a very degraded rainforest area there that looked took took a lot of work.
16:03
SPEAKER_00: So we had the rainforest area.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh then we have the um our Gondwana area, um, which the whole idea of that is the evolution of Australian wildlife.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: So that was another Angela um project of nagging her husband, but that's another story in itself.
16:20
SPEAKER_04: Are you good at that?
16:21
SPEAKER_00: Um being known for it.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: Um and and then um basically we have the um the wildlife boardwalk area, yeah.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that then ties in now with the new Hartley's Crocs Centre.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: So basically that that Croc Centre is kind of like the anchor for that section.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: And then the uh the uh Gallery of Living Art Reptiles is is sort of the anchor for the Gondwana area because basically that uh ties in with the whole some of the evolutionary side because obviously Australia is uh has one of the largest ranges of reptiles um in the world.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
17:03
SPEAKER_04: Can I just to uh to give uh people listening a bit of an idea?
17:09
SPEAKER_04: Now uh when when that centre launched, um you really did launch it with something quite wild.
17:16
SPEAKER_04: That was the Crocodile Time exhibition.
17:18
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
17:19
SPEAKER_04: Now visitors can now walk through, and the first thing that they see is this life-size model of an ancient long-lettered predator.
17:27
SPEAKER_04: Um now, I believe it was hunted up around the Chilligo, uh, which is west of Kenspa, about three hours or so.
17:35
SPEAKER_04: And something had been described, I've been reading in local magazines, as something straight out of Jurassic Park.
17:40
SPEAKER_04: Does it about give a an accurate assessment?
17:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, basically the idea was to just as people walk up to that center, is for them to be taken back into that ancient time in a vivid type of way.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: So you've got that um uh quincana there, yeah, or it's one of the species of the quincanas, um, and um that particular one is believed to have when you go back through the research, and I had to do a lot of reading into it, but basically the I think it's Molnar, who's the scientist who's mainly predominantly to do with that research, um, he could actually pretty much work out what the animal looked like based on the on the dentition, based on the teeth.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: So you could get the teeth.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: So anyway, evidently it's believed that this animal had quite long legs, so it was a crocodile but but sort of um jacked up.
18:34
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and um and the reason being that at that time it was an extremely dry and and there weren't all the wetlands and things, so this this creature had to get up and run around to hunt, which would have been quite a um terrifying sight, I'd imagine, for those for anyone who might have been alive at the time.
18:53
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so basically uh that's sort of the starting point of it, yes.
18:58
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
18:58
SPEAKER_04: So not only have you got that sandy, you've also got the fact that uh people can get on the boat and tour around and see crocs in their natural habitat.
19:06
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
19:07
SPEAKER_04: The other side um that I'm thinking of is uh the actual uh the the the croc feeding as well, I believe.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh god, yes, we're uh right into that.
19:18
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, we'll it we always attempt to feed the crocs on the lagoon.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: We never guarantee it because you go through winter periods.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: There's different stages when the crocs aren't as hungry, but you know, like say for example, we're now going into mating season, so they've got their minds are other in uh another space at the moment, so they'll they'll eat, but they also are very occupied with their with their breeding and looking around to who's watching them and so forth.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: Um customers sometimes during this time will get more than they've bargained for because sometimes they might get a sh a show which they weren't expecting.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: Um but anyway, yes, so we've got that crop feeding, and but then we also have the um crocodile attack show um and and the morning crop feed as well.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: So we've got an 11 o'clock and a three o'clock.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: And then for those who are lucky enough to get to be able to book in, we've also got the big crop feeds which have the chance to uh actually pole feed a giant saltwater crop, but that's an extra cost and must be pre-booked.
20:16
SPEAKER_04: Great.
20:16
SPEAKER_04: Uh look, I spent uh several years in in my younger life in the Northern Territory uh around the Catherine Gorge area, and uh I used to actually um partake in croc feeding, um tours, etc., and croc spotting, but they were freshwater crocs.
20:34
SPEAKER_04: Now, in my experience, I've found that the crocodiles actually, the freshies anyway, up around the Catherine area, actually had a personality of their own.
20:43
SPEAKER_04: Have you found that right the way through that some of the crocs that are that are regular at the Hartley's Creek, are they do they but you know, I don't I don't know, do they show their own personalities at all?
20:56
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I I think so, but I think that there's a word called anthropomorphism, I think it's is the word for it, but basically I think you're just gonna be a little bit careful about trying to relate too many humanistic qualities to reptiles because they are a reptile.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, and we are uh currently embarking on quite a bit of a research project of our own on the actual structure and function of the crocodile brain for another project.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: Um but leave that aside, they certainly have um different mannerisms, um, different mannerisms and different and also I'd I'd go as far as to say they relate to different people.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, like um example being the old Hartley zoo, um different people would do it, do the croc shows, and that particular croc was Scar Sides, and Cyclone was his female as well, and she was very much part of the show as well.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, that croc would behave differently with almost every single person who Did that show.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Really?
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: And um for some people, yeah, he'd be hard work and you know, be all aggro and whatever else.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: And then um, you know, there's a lady that named Jo that used to do the show.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: She she later on became a nurse and so forth.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: And that crocodile just was absolutely an ador.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: He would just just absolutely loved Joe and just would do anything, anything Joe wanted him him to do.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Put on perfect manners.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: But as we as we know, um you've got to be still be be very careful of the perfectly mannered crocodile, because sometimes that can all go B shape very quickly.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: So you still have to be on your guard.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: But all I'm sort of saying is yeah, and they were different people, and then and then for some people he would he he would be really hard work.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, wow.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: And you could have you know, but but still entertaining.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: It's because every every person who does our shows, you know, they're empowered to do it in their on the with their own spin.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, put their own story because they all a lot of our guys go up, uh they're either fishing fanatics or they you know they then love their wildlife observation, whatever else.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: So they've got their own particular stories to include, so we always allow that and it it it adds to the flavour.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: So you you can literally come to Hartley's three days in a row and see three different shows and get three different takes on it, you know.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, wow.
23:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
23:19
SPEAKER_04: Look, so many of our listeners too, Angela.
23:22
SPEAKER_04: I mean, they absolutely love hearing crocodile stories.
23:25
SPEAKER_04: Now, take you back through history, as I mentioned earlier, the earliest years of Hartley's crocodile adventures was a crocodile by the name of Charlie.
23:35
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
23:35
SPEAKER_04: Now, this is a crocodile that lived at the park for approximately sixty-five years.
23:41
SPEAKER_04: Is that correct?
23:41
SPEAKER_00: I think that's pretty close.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: My husband would probably correct both of us, but I think that's pretty correct.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: I don't have I don't have his book sitting right here with me, but yes.
23:49
SPEAKER_04: Tell me tell me what was dealing with Charlie like and any stories associated with Charlie that you remember?
23:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well Charlie, I mean Charlie was very uh special.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he he was brought in by um by the original owners um and uh the um Evans family, so Pop and Mabel Evans.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: Um so Charlie, there's probably about three reasonably plausible stories as to where Charlie came from.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: The most plausible is that he was caught in a um an indigenous fish trap on the other side of the Cairns Inlet, probably somewhere close to Yarbah, and there's quite a few there.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: Um he always did have a scar on the on the top, I think, right hand side, um, where it's believed he might have been speared or something like that.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: But basically Charlie came on a um uh on a on a a a bus, so ch so he was bought and brought in.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: Um and then a relatively, I mean not that huge a crocodile at that time, I think probably about from memory about two, say two and a half, three metres long, I think, um, based on the photos.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: And then uh they the Evans family would m bake these scones and take, and while the scones were baking and people wait, people were you know refilling their cars and whatever else, then they would um go and feed this crocodile Charlie.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: So um Charlie was and and Pop Evans were apparently very, very close.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: And um uh there's a story about Charlie getting out of the enclosure and Pop Evans literally just walking Charlie back in and then apparently consuming about half a bottle of scotch afterwards.
25:36
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
25:36
SPEAKER_04: Um as you do.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: But over over time, obviously Charlie grew bigger and bigger and and then um was given a a lot better enclosure once um uh once Freeman's took over and and set things up a lot a lot better for him.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, there's different things that people don't fully understand with crocodiles, but you you they love they they've got to have that sunlight, so he got a lot better area for sunning himself and things like that.
26:02
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so he he he was an amazing croc and and literally um he did his last show and and um and must have passed away sometime that afternoon.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: And um it turned and they had a um autopsy on him and it turned out that he had cancer.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh so it's the first no first known uh example of um a crocodile crocodilian uh having had cancer.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: So some sort of lymphatic cancer.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: Um but anyway, yes, so his teeth were not good because he was getting fed uh food from um leftover supermarket scraps and bits and pieces.
26:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Um so there was a lot of dental work done on Charlie originally, so they even brought out this giant X-ray machine and X-rayed his teeth and did operations and got his got his jaw all well well set and everything like that.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: So there's quite a bit of um yeah, vet work and things done um done on the different animals there.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: But that's just I I'm not blaming anyone, that's just how people uh adapted to wildlife care and and wildlife care has come a long way since that time.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, now bear in mind that none of those crocodiles would have been alive because crocodile hunting was prevalent all the way through, and then and then people were getting the crocodile skins.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, so basically Gary Zillfish, the owner, was paying the same price for the crocod the live crocodile than than the crocodile skin than they would have got for the skin.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: So basically they had dodged a bullet quite literally by being at by being at the old Hartley's Creek Zoo.
27:37
SPEAKER_04: Yep, wow.
27:39
SPEAKER_04: Look, um another area that you've got at Hartley's is an area that absolutely fascinates me, and that's the actual crocodile farm.
27:48
SPEAKER_04: Now, over the years, um the perception about uh crocodile and eating crocodile has shifted from novelty to genuinely gourmet.
27:59
SPEAKER_04: I mean, people hear about it and their eyebrows raised as as hearing gourmet crocodile being served.
28:07
SPEAKER_04: What what what do you tell them about it?
28:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, I suppose it's one of those things where people there there's actually been DPI studies on it, and it actually has um very, very little cholesterol, if if if any at all.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: Um so um, you know, um certain of the Aboriginal tribes ate crocodiles, certain tribes it was their totem totem, they didn't eat it.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: Um and similarly to kangaroo meat, um it it is uh a very lean meat.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: Um so um it's a you know so it's it's actually got some health properties to the extent now that some of the people are um using the uh the crocodile jerky as a as a protein supplement.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: So that's become quite a bit of a thing.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: Um uh so what do we say to people?
28:54
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's the whole idea of of Hartleys and the whole philosophy of it is sustainability.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: So it's basically number one, um, we're not out taking cro we are not out taking crocodiles from the wild.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: If there's a problem crocodile that's become a genuine issue as classified by Queensland Parks, and it's offered to us on rotation, then if we have the space for it, we'll take it.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: Um some of those crocodiles end up on the lagoon as part of the breeding stock, some uh maybe uh will end up as as as in in breeders, and then some may end up being part of our big croc feed experiences and things like that.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: But at least they're living a life.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: And they and and when I say that it's not like a half a life.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean they are very well fed, very well looked after.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: Now they also get rotated around, so um so some of the crocs will might might start the lagoon, then they might do the big croc feed, then they might get rotated around.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: So they're not always in that enclosure or something the whole time, except the really big ones, because there's not much we can do with the really, really big ones because they can be quite dangerous, as you might imagine.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, but basically, you know, they're they're felt you know fed well, looked after, they've got good enclosures and all those sort of things.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: So so the offspring from those, we collect the eggs and then we raise up the the the crocs.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh we um and uh we do have a processing arrangement with another operator, and then we have all of the different meat cuts, and and they can include crocodile ribs, and they've and we've got crocodile tail and and uh I think we call it a strip loin as well and various other things.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: And then our chefs do some fabulous things, croc burgers, the crispy crocodile, we've got crocodile tastings, um, and and any manner of things, and there's also some amazing byproducts that are now coming from the crocodile, including the collagen.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: So some obviously collagens, not just a beauty product, they're actually looking at it from a a homeopathic point of view and also doing some remarkable work with uh, if you can actually believe this, a scientific study, uh paper that was presented in Darwin a y about two years ago, they're actually extracting the collagen, making a fibre from it.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: That fibre is then being woven into a a mesh, which then is a um uh uh basically used in surgery where you've got major wounds.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, and believe it or not, the actual mesh then just integrates straight back into the into the body within a period of time as it's healing.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: So there's some pretty remarkable things.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: That's incredible.
31:27
SPEAKER_04: Look, the other the other thing that really interests me, and I'm sure it will our listeners also, Angela, is out of the crocodile farm, the you design handbags out of crocodile skin.
31:40
SPEAKER_04: Lead me through that.
31:41
SPEAKER_04: That is fascinating.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's the old story with Angela Freeman.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: Um don't tell Angela that she can't do something.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know what it is about me.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: I've been like that ever since I was a child.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: I've always been just quite stubborn and determined.
32:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, and basically I had this conversation with one of the major um uh fashion companies um who was visiting, and we got into this discussion about uh crocod the defects of crocodile skins, because effectively there has to be a point at which the consumer accepts the defects.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that basically there's there's got to be a balance.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay, you want a perfect handbag, but you've also got to accept that um from an animal welfare perspective, um things are going to happen and they're gonna have the odd scratch and whatever else.
32:37
SPEAKER_04: Can I can I uh so so it's more scratches, not uh design, it's not like a woolly's bruised banana or anything from the perfect.
32:44
SPEAKER_04: How how does how does that distinguish itself?
32:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh well, there's just um with when you're farming crocodiles, they've um they've got sharp teeth, so sometimes they will um be they communicate by by biting, and when I say that, they're not actually attacking each other or anything like that.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: They'll just kind of go, Hey, you're in my road, or you know, just move across, or anything like that.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: So basically, um so sometimes the skins will end up with just a small defect or or whatever uh and and we have learned over a period of time about some of the things that were like little little marks and imperfections which we've been able to work on.
33:23
SPEAKER_00: That's oftentimes a water quality issue more so than anything else.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: Um but anyway, we were having this debate, and uh he was saying, well, you know, for us to produce the lighter coloured uh skins which might be um like the light pinks and the yellows, um, you know, the crocodile skin has to be absolutely perfect and and you know yours aren't perfect.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Okay, that's fine, I'll accept that.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: Um and um but I said, Well, why can't you have a bag that's got a couple of colours in it so that you use the less the ones that the ones that aren't perfect, perfect, but you're doing dark, dark um tanning on those, and then you're actually making something that's got a bit of a combination.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: He went, You cannot possibly make a handbag in two colours, a crocodile handbag in two colours.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: And it's like he looked at me like I was you know, like I'd crawled out of a a slime pot or pond or something like that.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: And um and we got into conversation about shoes and other things, but anyway, and I thought, hmm, okay, so I I you know, I I I want to use everything that you know, like we we've got an indigenous lady that takes the the crocodile fat and renders it down to an oil and makes a wonderful uh product out of that now, which is a homeopathic type of product.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: And you know, we want to do service and respect the animal, you know, that's what it's all about.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: And um and make sure that every possible um uh byproduct that can be created is created and that we have the absolute minimum waste.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: So that's you that's your obligation as far as I'm concerned, if if you're going to get into sustainable farming.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: So so then we embarked on the idea of well, can't can we actually make crocodile handbags?
35:05
SPEAKER_00: And then uh our business partners in Japan just happen to basically one of their side businesses is um uh is supplying the tanneries with um with all the different colours and amazing things there.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Now, interestingly, people have this idea, oh, that's pollution and so forth.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: It it isn't actually what actually happens is um there's different minerals and things in those in that those tanning solutions.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: Very valuable minerals, actually, and so they actually take all of that back and recycle it.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: So they will actually take the whole, so there's no, you don't like when you go to Japan and and go to tanneries and things like that, you're not sort of seeing things being poured into drains or any of the stuff that people have in their minds, not at all.
35:48
SPEAKER_00: Everything's valuable, it all gets gets reused, so it's quite amazing.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, so we got into this whole idea and then started to get into different things.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: So, of course, when I started, then of course I've got different ideas, don't I?
35:59
SPEAKER_00: So I've got the you know the the manufacturer there, and you know, this is how it's done, and I'm kind of like, well, I'd really like to do it differently if it's possible.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, so basically, then we started to look at colours, and at that stage a lot of the stuff was very bland colours, and then I thought, well, no, actually I want to have these colours and I want to have these colours, and I want to do this, and I want to do that.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: So the colours I've got are always based on a something to do with the North Queensland natural environment.
36:30
SPEAKER_00: So they can be based on on the reef, so that's it.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: So sometimes they're inspired by the reef with the turquoise and the various other things.
36:37
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they'll be the the really deep greens, sometimes the colours you might see in the in the in the the beautiful pools of the water.
36:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:45
SPEAKER_00: So basically what I'm doing is I'm matching a a series of of pieces from the environment, or they might be the colours of the fruits of the castbury or something like that.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: And so they all match together beautifully because they're all elements that are found in in one particular natural place.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: So therefore, and then I started to make these bags with the different colours, and they um turned out to be quite um quite a thing.
37:11
SPEAKER_04: Angela is fascinating that you've uh done that.
37:15
SPEAKER_04: Um it it blows my mind the the processes behind it and the thinking behind it, and and the uh you know the natural um elements of it as well.
37:24
SPEAKER_04: I want to take you right up to now.
37:26
SPEAKER_04: So it's September 2026, and news is out that there's a$1.2 million expansion relocating so-called problem crocodiles into premium feeding experiences, uh, boosting VIP croc encounters and improving staff safety and parking at the area.
37:44
SPEAKER_04: This must all be going on right now.
37:47
SPEAKER_04: Uh indeed it is.
37:49
SPEAKER_04: Tell me about for a start, the the uh the relocating of your so-called problem crocodiles.
37:54
SPEAKER_04: This is fascinating.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, but I'm gonna take one tiny sidestep and say that the evolution of the crocodile products is now into a whole range of things for men.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: Right.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: So basically, I've gone into a amazing finish which we call an auto finish.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: And so I've got a whole bunch of products um specifically for men.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: But leather goods.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: So basically, yeah, so they've there's sort of like a uh harder wearing type um product.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you don't beat the hell out of it, but um, yeah, so there you go.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's not just not just for ladies.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because well I've got I've got in my I've got in my mind that there's people sitting there driving along and uh and it's yeah, so so basically uh don't don't think it's only the ladies being catered for here.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: We've got lots of different products for all manner of people from all different work walks of life.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: So let's go back to the yeah, well, we we we have to be, you know, we're all we cover all markets.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: So so basically, um this is a long uh there's always these projects that you know you've got to get done, um, and and it's like the prioritization of them.
39:11
SPEAKER_00: So prior to that we had to go through and do all of our spotted gum boardwalks, because and so we've done a big project there.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: So this is just part of the big, big project.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: So we've gone through and replaced um hundreds of metres of boardwalks, um, and then they all lead back to the to the um to the morning croc area and the and the croc centre.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then right near right near there is where that was the ugliest part of the park was this storage area that had all manner of things thrown into it.
39:47
SPEAKER_00: Um it was driving us nuts.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: So basically that ugly, ugly storage area has now been completely demolished, dis disappeared, and now that's where our car park is or our new car park.
39:59
SPEAKER_04: Right.
40:00
SPEAKER_04: And easy for people to park, quite a bit.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: And and also it just it will enable us to uh then make space.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: There's some there's it'll make more space also for the uh for the motorhomes and things and allow more space.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'll be honest, for the big, big caravans, it's it's it's tricky, you know, like basically um they they need to be out like in the in area in the front or whatever, but basically um for a normal size caravan there's we've got area out the front generally where people can fit.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: Um but anyway, so so so basically what we had to do was do the car park first, um, and then the plans are now being done for the um uh for the for these croc feeding enclosures there.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: We've already built these previously, but this one will will be will have 12 um areas and we've already got there's three crocs that are already set aside for that.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: Um and every year um without fail, there's just by natural processes, there's younger crocs that get pushed out by the by the big um dominant males from different water systems, yeah, and they do end up sometimes where they shouldn't be, or uh well that's it, yeah, it's not true.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: It's where it's where humans think they shouldn't be, but um that could be uh Barramundi farm, that could be on a golf course, that could be in a swimming pool, um where else have they turned up um goat farms um uh and other strange and sundry places they find themselves.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah um and you know like people have seen people have seen crocs walking across the road in Kawara Beach.
41:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, on the odd occasion of heavy rain.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: So so basically we do end up with these what they call problem crocodiles.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: Now the average croc size is around about four metres in the wild now, anyway.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: So those male crocodiles are getting pretty getting pretty big.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: Um so it's just gonna happen that there's gonna be some that will end up in these enclosures.
42:10
SPEAKER_04: And that's then yeah.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: And but what I'm getting at is we were always taking them in.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: So this is just a reshuffle to to basically uh make more accommodation, more so it's it's more of a being proactive rather than reactive, rather than trying to go, oh, where are we gonna put this one?
42:26
SPEAKER_00: Um then we'll just gradually put put them all through.
42:29
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
42:29
SPEAKER_04: We're starting ahead to the end of our time, but I did want to really touch on because so many people are interested, that uh croc safety in uh tropical North Queensland.
42:41
SPEAKER_04: Now uh there's an understanding that technology being what it is is coming along in leaps and bounds.
42:50
SPEAKER_04: And I'd love you to um fill everybody in just how far technology is going in regard to uh crocks safety and and fishing and swimming and things in the far north.
43:01
SPEAKER_04: What's happening in that space?
43:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, uh, there's sort of two aspects aspects to this, which one one I'm a little bit more familiar with, but the but the government have apparently uh appointed someone else more recently, so I haven't had much to do with that other gentleman.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: But um we got into conversations a few years ago um with uh senior members of Queensland Parks Crocodile Division about some ideas about how do we how do we have some areas where we can actually detect the large crocodiles so that you can actually have some sort of sections.
43:38
SPEAKER_00: Theoretically that might be near boat ramps or other areas where they they might be sitting there and you wouldn't even know they were there, sort of thing.
43:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean it's not it's not going to be a solution for for your average water hole or whatever, but the idea is this uh it's called multi spectral sonar.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: Um so basically um we agreed to be Part of the pilot study for that.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: And what they effectively did did was use Hartley's Lagoon to run the very first sort of experiments on it.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: So effectively it it's sending out um uh a huge number, hundreds and hundreds of of sonar signals.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:18
SPEAKER_00: Um and uh in almost like a 3D type, like we your normal sonar would be like, oh, there's a boat over here and there's a boat over here and that sort of stuff, and okay, stay away from that boat.
44:29
SPEAKER_00: But in this case, you're more like trying to actually really gauge it because the crocodiles are in in sometimes in turbid on like muddy water.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:37
SPEAKER_00: Um so you can pretty accurately from the from the work that they did at Hartley's and then out in the wild, um, you can pretty accurately pick up the actual shape of of the larger crocodiles.
44:50
SPEAKER_00: Right.
44:51
SPEAKER_00: Um so you know, there's sort of those three, four-meter crocodiles.
44:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, with more tweaking work, I'm sure they'd be able to pick up smaller ones, but that the the ones that are effectively uh a potential threat to human safety would be those those larger animals.
45:05
SPEAKER_00: So that's the sonar side of it.
45:08
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
45:09
SPEAKER_00: And then the second part of it, um, which we were also involved in was this idea of the pulsing.
45:16
SPEAKER_00: So basically, firstly, doing some recordings of crocodiles um uh in the lagoon uh in different conditions to see what actual noises they make because they make noises similar to it could be a little bit like a dolphin kind of sound, that type of thing, under the water.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh some of it's very groovy, I will say.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, so pretty cool stuff.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, but then the big male crocodiles put out this boom sound um underwater, which is kind of like sounds like an underwater explosion type thing.
45:51
SPEAKER_00: Um and that frightens the bejesus out of all the smaller crocodiles.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: So you'll actually see it on the lagoon sometimes.
45:58
SPEAKER_00: The big croc will come, you know, every everyone's happily feeding, and you know, customers are looking at this, that, and the other thing, and then the big croc decides that he wants to come and uh muscle in on the action and he'll put this boom out, um, and then everything will just scatter.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: So basically all the crocs will go from that area, the females, every they'll all go, yeah, and then this the big croc will just pop his head up.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: Oh, here I am, you know.
46:23
SPEAKER_00: Or we don't feed him, that you never feed those big crocs off the boat, it's just too liable to have issues, um, and do damage and things like that.
46:32
SPEAKER_00: But yes, so they put this sound out, but that because of their size, their sheer size, they seem to be able to make this noise which is really, really um almost some sort of subsonic type of sound.
46:45
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: So the idea was to see if they could reproduce that sound.
46:50
SPEAKER_04: Does that ward off other crocodiles?
46:52
SPEAKER_04: Oh yes.
46:52
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I can't.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so you know, you talk about crocodile territory and all that sort of stuff.
46:58
SPEAKER_00: So basically, that would be one of the things that that the big crocs would do to kind of t tell the the younger up-and-coming, you know, um up and coming uh suitors, that's probably the word, um, to stay out because yeah, you're going to you you're going to regret the decision.
47:18
SPEAKER_04: That's that is fascinating where.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: So that's sort of where that's kind of landed at this stage, and it's then having a look at how that works and can it be applied consistently, you know, or or or does it get to a point where the the other crocs just go, oh yeah, that's just that sound again.
47:34
SPEAKER_00: But um definitely it may have to be that you produce several different sounds.
47:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh the you know the females are doing their little thing that they do, you know, they do their vibration thing on the water and all that kind of stuff.
47:49
SPEAKER_04: So yes.
47:51
SPEAKER_04: Amazing.
47:52
SPEAKER_04: All right.
47:52
SPEAKER_04: So we're on we're on the uh the the cusp of uh heading towards the exit here.
47:58
SPEAKER_04: But I'll tell you what, Angela, there is a part of the show, not sure whether you know this, but I get to ask questions about a guest that I don't think anybody else is going to know, especially about you, all right.
48:10
SPEAKER_04: So are you ready for it?
48:11
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm talking some deep research here, Angela.
48:14
SPEAKER_04: All right.
48:15
SPEAKER_04: Now, I think I've found two little tasty morsels of information for you, Angela Freeman.
48:22
SPEAKER_04: And I put it to you, number one.
48:25
SPEAKER_04: Are you ready for it?
48:26
SPEAKER_04: Number one.
48:27
SPEAKER_00: I think I'm ready.
48:29
SPEAKER_04: While the description of this may have people running in one direction, generally you can be running towards and have a great love and fascination for the giant burrowing cockroach.
48:44
SPEAKER_04: True or false?
48:46
SPEAKER_04: I love a giant burrowing cockroach.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: You heard it first?
48:51
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
48:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, I've I've been known to do a bit of um begging for them at different times.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, but unfortunately at Hartleys, uh it's not dry enough.
49:03
SPEAKER_00: You have to have really, really dry conditions.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: But they they're known to be out at one of the one of the race race tracks.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm not sure if it's not Mount Garnet, but one of the other racetracks, they they do have them out there.
49:14
SPEAKER_00: Apparently kids can actually find it.
49:16
SPEAKER_04: So the people near racetrack see Angela Freeman, she's not on the punt.
49:20
SPEAKER_04: She's looking for cockroaches.
49:22
SPEAKER_04: This is good.
49:23
SPEAKER_04: All right.
49:23
SPEAKER_04: Number two.
49:24
SPEAKER_04: I put it to you, Angela Freeman, that you are, among everything else that you do in life, also a constitutional lawyer.
49:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, I well, yes.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know about constitutional lawyer.
49:40
SPEAKER_00: I I mean I'm I'm fascinated by the constitution.
49:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm uh I'm it's a better description to say that I'm more of a commercial lawyer.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:47
SPEAKER_00: Um I've worked in the areas of local government law, uh, uh commercial law, um, property law, um yeah, various different things.
49:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:59
SPEAKER_00: But constitutional law is an interesting one because uh you'd be surprised where it applies.
50:06
SPEAKER_00: And in fact, I have even been doing of recent times a bit of uh dabbling into the constitution, only in very recent times, about uh freedom of interstate trade and a few other bits and pieces.
50:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
50:17
SPEAKER_00: It's interesting where it comes up.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting when you can actually go, ah, but do you know about section such and such of the constitution?
50:25
SPEAKER_00: That gets people thinking a bit.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: I bet.
50:27
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, no, no, I I do I do love a good, you know, I I do have a great uh fondness for many of the uh High Court judges and their decisions.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: Some some fascinating decisions come through.
50:39
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
50:39
SPEAKER_04: Well, I tell you what, I learn something every day about you, Angela Freeman.
50:43
SPEAKER_04: All right, so here we go.
50:44
SPEAKER_04: Here is the incentive.
50:46
SPEAKER_04: Now, I'm going to give you three questions to end the show.
50:50
SPEAKER_04: And each question, if it passes the drive Australia test, I will be scrutinizing your answers with an intense screw, Angela.
50:57
SPEAKER_04: Don't worry about that.
50:58
SPEAKER_04: But with each no pressure at all.
51:02
SPEAKER_04: But with uh each answer, if it's good, you will receive a Tim Tam.
51:07
SPEAKER_04: There it is.
51:08
SPEAKER_04: A Tim Tam, Angela Freeman, it is the people's biscuit.
51:13
SPEAKER_04: All right.
51:13
SPEAKER_04: Indeed, it is good.
51:14
SPEAKER_04: Ready, here we go.
51:15
SPEAKER_04: Number one.
51:16
SPEAKER_04: Other than your own backyard, what's your favorite Aussie destination and what makes it so special?
51:24
SPEAKER_00: Look, I, because our younger son now lives in Canberra, I've actually been having uh a wonderful time exploring that ACT area and going in all manner of different directions, out to the wineries, up into the snow country, out to the coast, the magnificent, I think they call it the sapphire coast there.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh um indulging in uh well, you start by going to the wineries and buying your wine, then you head in the opposite direction and then go out and then uh have the oysters, so you can go to the different oyster leases and um get into a bit of seafood.
52:02
SPEAKER_00: Um and then of course, you know, you you've got they've got no end of amazing bakeries there that will lead you into all manner of temptations.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: So there's a beautiful bakery in every town around that those areas.
52:15
SPEAKER_00: Um so I've actually been really enjoying it.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: And then of course, you know, being a bookworm that I am, you know, I can go to the State Library and I can then go and enjoy the arts and go to the art galleries.
52:28
SPEAKER_00: So I find it a really it's a place everyone dismisses, oh Canberra, but goodness it's goodness it's it's it's got some good food and everything like that.
52:36
SPEAKER_00: I and I think that like any road trip, if you're gonna go from Melbourne to Sydney or you're gonna go from here to there, yeah, well make sure that you do a little diversion through to the ACT and and grab some nice wines.
52:50
SPEAKER_00: The wines are generally the the um the direct uh wines from a lot of those wineries are very reasonably priced, I find.
53:00
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
53:00
SPEAKER_00: And they're absolutely superb, and the range of wine that you can get from beautiful um sort of Chardonnays through to through to lovely reds and pin on Wales, and it's just divine.
53:13
SPEAKER_04: Very, very good advice for our Drive Australia audience, Angela.
53:17
SPEAKER_04: All right, question number two.
53:18
SPEAKER_00: Well, you don't want to drive Thursday.
53:20
SPEAKER_04: No, correct.
53:22
SPEAKER_04: You don't until after driving.
53:24
SPEAKER_00: You don't you don't drink and drive, but we all know about the sundowner.
53:28
SPEAKER_00: We all know about the sundowners.
53:30
SPEAKER_04: It's an Australian not to have a sundowner, Angela.
53:33
SPEAKER_04: All right, number two.
53:34
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
53:34
SPEAKER_04: What Aussie destination is still sitting at the top of your bucket list?
53:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay, this is uh the beautiful town of Eden.
53:44
SPEAKER_01: Cool.
53:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so basically, my ancestors are from Eden, um, and they were involved with whaling, um, and they were involved with those killer whales and all that kind of thing.
53:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh my father, before he passed away, would wax lyrical for hours about all these amazing stories of of the whalers and all the things that they did and whatever else.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: And um I also hear that they've got some good wine there, so that makes me even more excited.
54:16
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: Um and I've even tasted some of the wines that have been for new, the new um up and coming winery people there.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: Um so I'm absolutely fascinated to to go there, and I I can't wait.
54:29
SPEAKER_00: Actually, I'm gonna try to organise that within the next six months or so to actually stay there.
54:35
SPEAKER_00: And I've been doing um, I've been doing research, I've been getting little books, booklets, and bits and pieces from different visitor centres and learning a bit more and so forth.
54:45
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so I'm I'm hanging out.
54:48
SPEAKER_04: I bet you're making me hang out now, too.
54:51
SPEAKER_04: All right, number three, our last one.
54:54
SPEAKER_04: Every good road trip needs a soundtrack.
54:58
SPEAKER_04: Angela Freeman, I ask you, what is your ultimate road trip song?
55:04
SPEAKER_00: Oh, road trip song.
55:05
SPEAKER_04: Road trip song.
55:07
SPEAKER_04: What is your go-to?
55:08
SPEAKER_04: The windows down, the hairs.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
55:11
SPEAKER_00: Oh, goodness.
55:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay, road trip song.
55:13
SPEAKER_00: That's a little bit trickier than what I thought it was the answer was going to be.
55:17
SPEAKER_00: Um Wind in the Hair.
55:23
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, yes.
55:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think I think you'd have to go the Akadaka Highway to Hell, wouldn't you?
55:29
SPEAKER_04: Oh my goodness me.
55:30
SPEAKER_04: You know?
55:31
SPEAKER_04: My goodness me, Angela.
55:33
SPEAKER_04: I liked you.
55:34
SPEAKER_04: I like I've always liked you, but I like you more now.
55:36
SPEAKER_00: And um, there's a little bit of a backstory to that.
55:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, I actually terrified some Japanese uh in a uh karaoke bar one night when um uh they put that on, and I actually did the full screaming thing, and um they all they were all crooning, crooning to doing the doing the romantic songs, and and and my husband got bored out of his mind.
55:55
SPEAKER_00: And so I'll put my wife on and and and they said, Oh, what song do you want?
55:58
SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll pull up, pull up AC D C and then we went full crazy, and they and they were just uh in shock.
56:06
SPEAKER_00: They were shocked and then and then they um yeah, they they got around to it.
56:10
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
56:12
SPEAKER_04: Oh, look, Angela, it has been wonderful chatting to you today.
56:16
SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much for coming in.
56:18
SPEAKER_04: It's been an absolute privilege to speak with you.
56:20
SPEAKER_04: Oh, well, there we go.
56:22
SPEAKER_04: There we go.
56:23
SPEAKER_04: Ladies and gentlemen, thanks for joining us on Drive Australia podcast, where we always share epic tips and epic Australian road trips.
56:31
SPEAKER_04: Massive thanks to Angela Freeman and all of the Freeman family as well for all of your stories, experiences, and insider tips.
56:38
SPEAKER_04: And if you want the best adventure of your life, make sure that you check out their website, Wildlife Tropical North Queensland.
56:46
SPEAKER_04: Get a great deal on the three parks.
56:49
SPEAKER_04: And make sure that you check out all of their socials.
56:54
SPEAKER_00: Beware of invitations.
56:55
SPEAKER_00: That's the one.
56:56
SPEAKER_04: There it is.
56:56
SPEAKER_04: There you heard it first, Wildlife Tropical North Queensland.com.
57:00
SPEAKER_04: Make sure you check out all their socials.
57:02
SPEAKER_04: They've got some fantastic photos and clips as well.
57:05
SPEAKER_04: Folks, join us again next episode as we get back under the bonnet of Australia's Drive Market and chat with another great guest helping to make Australian road trips even more memorable.
57:17
SPEAKER_04: Don't forget to follow us on our socials and keep an eye out for the next episode of the Drive Straya podcast.
57:23
SPEAKER_04: I'm Tony George.
57:24
SPEAKER_04: Save travels, and we'll catch you again just down the road.