Latest / Breaking Down Addiction / #20 Dacey Fenton —Trauma, Faith, & Finding Freedom Beyond Sobriety

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#20 Dacey Fenton —Trauma, Faith, & Finding Freedom Beyond Sobriety · Breaking Down Addiction

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: What I started to associate on a subconscious level was my value, my capacity for success is in this little magic medication.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to a new episode this week of Breaking Down Addiction.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: I am your host, Johnny Phillip.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is brought to you by National Addiction Specialists.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're here to highlight individual stories of your experience, strength, and hope in recovery.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And today I'm so honored to have Daisy Fenton.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for joining us.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm happy to be here.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Did I pronounce your last name correct?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you did.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: Fenton.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: I had a friend Sarah in LA with the same last name.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I pronounced it like that.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: So wow.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well that's it.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad you're here today.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: We've gotten to know each other a little bit over this last six-month period.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: We met on a tour of Brooks Healing Center.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: You were such a fantastic, warm, kind, loving person, and I've found out that you're a wonderful mom.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd like to get into all of that, but I always like to ask first and foremost in these interviews is if you can speak to yourself in active addiction, and we're let's call it like in your deepest, darkest spot, what would you say to yourself?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's such a good question.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm sure the way that I would answer this question would change depending on the season I'm in and my recovery and my growth and my relate my spiritual relationship.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say my first thought is I would just kind of embrace myself and tell that young woman that she is loved, she's valued, she has a purpose, um, and that there's hope, you know, for the future and that she's gonna be okay.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Did you not feel a lot of love or feel good about yourself at that point?
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, in active addiction, there was a lot of shame and isolation internally.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you know guilt and shame is big.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and you hear that, I've always heard that saying about guilt and shame, where guilt is I did something bad, you feel convicted after an action and you make correction, where shame is that embodiment and that identity of I am inherently bad, I'm a bad person, or um maybe I don't have value, or something like that.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: And today, actually, it's funny we're talking about shame because I'm going through this body of work right now that is touching on shame.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: And shame to me, an active addiction, is that deep, dark isolation.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's kind of like I don't want to be seen.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I feel so invaluable as a as a human.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Where now I kind of have to sit with the question, like, what does shame look like for me now?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, where do I maybe hide from self in what areas or like what areas do I feel like I fall short?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: So some of that shame is still there?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's there, but I think where, you know, the human condition is we all feel inadequate at times, or gosh, yes, you know, and I think to me now that's more where I have to kind of invite self-awareness is where what areas of my life do I feel inadequate or you know self-awareness is is really key.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's a big piece here.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: But also I have struggled with imposter syndrome most of my life.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like whatever spot that I was in, whether if I was lucky to be in the position I was in, I always felt like oh, I don't deserve to be here.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um so maybe that goes along with shame.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think in recovery, you know, again, it's not the same as when you're in active addiction.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm sure a lot of people would relate to the shame in active addiction, but then part of our recovery and our growing in self-awareness is like learning about ourselves and learning what are those parts of self that need attention so that we don't fall back into coping with those feelings in an unhealthy way.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, I you phrased that eloquently.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for mentioning all that.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um you started using fairly early in your life at age 12.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um I did.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that that's I know that kids are using earlier and earlier these days, but for you at age 12, when you started using, was it just for fun at that point?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Was there anything going on emotionally that you were trying to counteract with using?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: What was going on there?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think I would say I grew up in a very wonderful home.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my parents were married.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: We had a beautiful home, lived in the suburbs, ran outside barefoot as a kid with all the other neighborhood kids.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: I was wild, playful, free, uninhibited, you know, if you asked my parents what I was like as a child.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, there was clear signs that I was well-loved, nurtured, very comfortable in my own skin.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but at age 12, you know, my best friends, there, they had older siblings that we really idolized.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I grew up, which is kind of actually a well-known, I think they even did an intervention episode on it or like series on what's called the triangle.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's north of Atlanta, and it's this triangle of suburban cities that it all were hit with this drug like epidemic where, you know, well-to-do families, the the kids were doing heroin and stuff.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: So a couple of my friends' older siblings, the grades above us, like people were getting into heroin and doing those type of things.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: But what I was witnessing at age 12 was just kind of the appeal and the allure of getting drunk for the first time.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really where it all started.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: Me and my best friend Miranda were together.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you're you're starting to drink on the weekend.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Are you just toying around with it a little bit at the time?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: So the first time we ever drank was we got home off of a boat.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: We were on the boat with her mom and one of her mom's friends at the time, and they had leftover wine coolers, and her mom left the house, and my mom was coming to pick us up to go back to my house.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: And me and her, this is just shows how like innocent and naive we were.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: Every year before the next school year, we would make a journal and we would write our goals for the year together, and it would be like hold hands with a seventh grader or something like that.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, just little girl stuff.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we innocent goals.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, innocent goals of, you know, and get matching notebooks and things like that.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's cute.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: This, yeah, it was cute.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: And really the story's kind of funny because it just shows truly how young we were, but we were also influenced, you know.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we that night we were like set this goal to get drunk together for the first time.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like that was what we wanted.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's such an extreme change from holding someone's hand for the first time, getting the same notebooks at school to we're getting drunk together.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they were yeah, they were all on the same list, you know.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it was kind of, but it's you can tell, like talking about it now, it's clearly that was coming from the influence of older, you know, people that we saw doing it, and it just seemed normal.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, that's just what we're you do, or that's you know, when you're young, you want to be more mature than you are.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: So you absolutely think certain things are more mature.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: So we ended up drinking the wine coolers that night.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: Got so drunk.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: I got sick before my mom even picked us up.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: And she picked us up.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: We ended up going to a Mexican restaurant, saying karaoke there.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: My mom just thought we were being our typical selves, just uninhibited, carefree, silly, goofy, wild girls.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: She had no idea.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Had no idea.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: The next morning, me and Miranda woke up and we did we decided to go to the front of the neighborhood and do a lemonade stand.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's truly how young minded we were.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it was while we were at the front of the neighborhood, my mom had gotten a call from Miranda's mom because she found all the empty bottles, and my mom came blazing up the front of the neighborhood.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And um rightfully so.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: He was very upset.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: But it's funny now, thinking of it, just to think of the image of these two really young girls, like hadn't even gone through puberty yet, doing a lemonade stand, getting caught drinking and getting drunk for the first time.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: So young.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: So after that, we met another girl.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: It was we went into our seventh grade year, we met another girl who had older siblings, huge mansion house, not a lot of parental supervision.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so we, you know, when we were there on the weekends, we would drink.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Just the three of us, the girls, like 12-year-old girls, just getting drunk together.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: And we had a ball, like it was a very much a front fun time, but naturally it progresses, you know.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it started as fun partying with your girlfriends.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: When does it start getting serious?
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And does other things come into the picture?
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about that.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when I look back, I've never had a normal relationship with substances.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, clearly, 12 years old, it's alluring and um not really understanding the consequences of what I'm doing at such a young age.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I don't think I ever use substances normally.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I just always was in the culture of drinking to get drunk.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: So drinking to like really change my state of consciousness.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then, but I had a long-term boyfriend in high school.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it kind of tempered me a lot.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I spent a lot of my time with him.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think he was, I met him short, you know, a year or so after my parents had divorced.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: And it was at a time where the safety of my home environment became fractured, um, very different from what I described earlier as Yeah, because you you had this this great home life.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, this gets shattered.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: So your your parents get divorced.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: At what what age were you when that happened?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so that summer I had got caught drinking.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: My dad had just moved out of the house.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so my mom was newly a single mom, you know, learning how to do that.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: And then shortly after that, we moved out of our house.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: And to be honest, to this day, I really haven't lived anywhere that felt like home since then.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: That really was my first feeling of home, and the it created my meaning of what home is.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I never really felt that again.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm so sorry.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it sounds difficult.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, like look, and that's why I think some people have a hard time healing their wounds and trauma because we get older, and I can look at that now from an emotionally developed standpoint and have a very clear understanding.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: But when you're not able to go back to those memories from the lens of a 12-year-old who their whole life is their home environment and their social school environment.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: So if any of those things get fractured, I mean, that's their whole world crumbling down.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: That is their embodiment of safety.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: And if that gets damaged in any way, when you're 30 years old, you can look back and go, oh, you know, 50% of Americans or whatever the statistics are get divorced.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: It shouldn't be a big deal.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it is a big deal.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's a huge, you know, it's a very big deal for children, especially to witness your parents going through such grief, such heartache, and not having really a context.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you're at a young age while this happened.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think that did this this divorce did to your identity and your coping at this point?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think I could I this was my experience.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm sure if you talked to my siblings, it'd be different if you talked to my parents.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it for me, it's truly just always owning what my experience was and honoring what it was so that I can be a better version of myself, but never placing blame, you know, on anyone.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I think what I felt like I witnessed and then internalized was I really didn't understand the divorce.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I only saw a stressed, resentful mom.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, not only, I mean, she was a joyful, loving, beautiful mother too, but in the context of the divorce.
• 14:14
  unknown: Yeah.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then my dad just I felt like he carried this grief.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it was a very confusing experience.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so then I actually embodied those two things.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: I embodied this identity of grief and shame, like something, there's something sad.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when it really starts.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is almost like the the guilt and grief and shame start before your your heavy usage starts.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and just feelings of just being alone in that experience.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think, but it's hard because when you're a child, I mean, outwardly, my mom sees me going and hanging out with friends, and I'm doing all the normal things a kid my age is doing.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't think any one of us was aware truly of what was being internalized and embodied during all those years.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: And um I I think our sibling dynamic changed too when we moved when our parents divorced.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, and also part of that is developmental, you know, you start hanging out with your friends more than just your siblings.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I feel like I was grieving the loss of a lot of dynamics in the family system, but I wasn't really aware that I was grieving that at the time.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: So then naturally, substances come in, that becomes a an outlet of fun and escape.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Of coping.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Of coping, not knowing that I'm actually really coping with anything.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're just burying it deeper.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my my parents split when I was around 21 years old.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was hard to take at that point.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you being a younger girl, I I can only imagine what that would have been like.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you were around you were in high school when this was happening with your parents?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: So they initially divorced in around sixth, seventh grade.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then, like I said, I met my boyfriend, my high school boyfriend, when I was in tenth grade.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I really sometimes I say that was almost like my first drug in a way, because even though I had tried substances, he really was what I attached to to feel at home somewhere and to feel kind of, I guess, seen.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: And um, it was a very like intense relationship for such a young age, too.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like now when I look back, um You're doing up a lot of growing very fast.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like would stay at his house on the weekends and things like that when I was, you know, 16 years old.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Which at the time a lot for 16 years old.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like when I was 16.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: To be given that kind of responsibility.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um so Adderall and and Vivance get prescribed to you around this part of the timeline.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And what what did that teach you, like this fine line between medication and addiction?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good question.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I really I've had to unpack that a lot too over my years in recovery.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, all of this starts compiling, I would say, around ninth grade.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Ninth grade is when I start high school.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: So academics change a little bit.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um my mom has, we've been living in a new home with my mom, single mom.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then, I mean, my dad was very much in the picture, but it was in ninth grade.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: They I started doing really poorly in school.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: And that's another thing I really advocate for.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm much more like holistic, is just kind of like, why was that medication the solution?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, maybe I'm having trouble in school because my friend group changed and my family life changed, and every sense of stability and consistency has now been removed and changed.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: You have no consistency.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so the ADHD symptoms that I had were, you know, the way I understand it now for myself is um you're either hyperactive.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I look at that more as like a fight or flight response.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very energized, I can't focus, I'm anxious, or they're not paying attention, they're zoning out.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: For me, that's more of like that's when I go into a freeze response.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of're lost in your thoughts on it.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's too much.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Everything is too much right now.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: So, how does how do I experience that as a human?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's either fight or flight, or I freeze.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so I look back now and that's what I was pendulating from.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: But the solution was to medicate me.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I got prescribed five ants and I remember, or Adderall at first.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember specifically my geometry teacher in ninth grade.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was failing her class, started taking Adderall.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Instantly the grades go up.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like my I went from an F to like B's and A's.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember her announcing in the class one day, like as she was giving out tests, see, this is what happens when you just apply yourself, like Daisy did.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: But what I and what I started to associate on a subconscious level was my value, my capacity for success is in this little magic medication.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like that was now my solution to my problems.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think this happens to a lot of children that are prescribed that.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: You can handle this bigger workload.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's a it's a methamphetamine in Pill form.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: And the thing too is I at that age, I'm not educated, or no one has taught me or given me a language, and I don't even think it was available then, even to parents to educate their children or even doctors.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: But how do we attune to our bodies and our systems to even have a language to say, oh, I'm coming off of this at the end of the day, and I'm not feeling myself, you know, I'm not feeling like myself.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm feeling like I'm kind of crashing off the medication.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where you're on all these medications.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry to interrupt.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're um this is before your your frontal lobe is fully developed.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it's also when people start recreationally or playfully using.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: So then, you know, marijuana gets introduced and you learn, okay, I'm like up, up, up all day long on my vibe ants where I feel kind of like a zombie.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, I can go smoke with my friends after school to kind of mellow out and feel chill.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so I don't, again, I don't know I'm doing this, but I'm self-medicating.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm managing my ups and downs with prescriptions and recreational substances.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And do you think this is okay for you right now because it's coming from a doctor?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't think twice about it.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was just, it was what it was.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: I actually didn't think anything about that medication until I got sober.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is um this is a bit off of my my question list, but this is just what popped up into my head.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is do you know your attachment style?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: I like to say now that I have a secure attachment style.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's beautiful.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because I have done a lot of work on my Myself and um I think if I have any sign of any type of insecure attachment, it's because I'm with an unsafe person.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: But before I was considered, I believe, like anxious attachment.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've been dealing with that over the years and I've done a lot of work on it.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not as much as I should, but I have done work on it actually.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Anxious attachment style is not fun.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: But no, none of them.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: No insecure attachment style is fun.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean because I I I look at you at this point when your your parents are splitting, you're starting to use more and more, you're on these medications, you don't have this this like secure footing in your life or your family, your friends, whatever it is.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um it has to create some sort of anxious attachment style slash fear of abandonment.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was definitely more anxious attachment, and I probably showed up in my first relationship in recovery.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then there was a lot of codependency issues there too.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I will, now that we're talking about this, I will say, obviously, you know, Will, and I'm in a new relationship now.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: I would say, if anything, it was more of avoidant that was showing up with him.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, ultimately I feel very secure, and any of the avoidant tendencies were quickly healed, I guess.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: You address them.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: They were maybe, let's say, illuminated.
• 23:44
  unknown: Okay.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, we never go into any relationship without it acting as a mirror.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I think, you know, me coming out of, you know, I was I'm a single mom.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: So meeting someone and having this new experience and relationship, obviously it's gonna kind of mirror some wounds of past relationships back to me.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I did a lot of work on myself to be really okay, not needing somebody.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: So then when someone comes in and they're like, no, it's safe for you to need me or want affection from me or need validation from me through the day.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: It it took someone being really consistent and showing me they're a safe person for me to not, you know, kind of mask or avoid showing fully my emotional nature.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: So if anything, it was me avoiding kind of being exposed.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: I totally get that.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I know introducing your son to a a new man, a new partner has to be a difficult process as well.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was to a certain extent.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: When you find the right person, it's easy, right?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I just I just think about it from my side with you know, my parents going through splitting up, and then having a child now, me and my wife are great, and I hope we're great forever.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just trying to put myself in your shoes.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we've got I would say, yeah.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: I've I think for me, I just am very selective.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: So um that's great.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it took, but I also, you know, before I met Will, I spent a very deep, deep period of time just alone with God.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so I felt in that time, you know, before I was like, why God, why is this happening?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was grieving motherhood the way I wanted it to be.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: I was grieving family, you know, coming from a divorced family, and then going through a separation, becoming a single mom, grieving what I thought, you know, motherhood was going to look like.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: It was a lot.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was a very, it was honestly a very dense, dense, heavy experience of grief and in sobriety.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I finally let go of that and surrendered all of that, I do feel like God just kind of put it on my heart.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I do have intentions to like fulfill this vision on your heart of motherhood and family and partnership and marriage.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I kind of surrendered the timeline.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: And in that time, God really had full access to me and to my heart, my mind, my spirit to really develop me.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like in that time, the person that was gonna come into my life and my son's life was being revealed to me in those moments with God.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: The character of that man.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I think when I met Will, it just was kind of that's where I say it was easy because although I kind of moved into it slowly, once I knew, I just knew there was a peace, there was a knowing, a spiritual knowing.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you were following the signs, right?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was just a spiritual experience.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I I do know about your faith in God.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: We we talked about God the first time I met you on our tour of Brooks and we prayed before our episode today.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And tell me so, do you think at that point that was your strongest connection with God?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And how did that happen?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And like was there a certain set of circumstances?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you can walk us through that a little bit, because I'm so curious about it, because you have this when I hang out with you or when I spend time with you, you have this zen, like peaceful, like I'm all love kind of personality about you.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's like the best compliment ever.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, thank you.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's honest.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think it's just the walk of recovery because it's looked different at different times.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: I will say I've re-I've hit kind of two rock bottoms in my life.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: One was when I got sober for the first time at 22.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: It was with substances.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like that was my master.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then the second time was in 2021 when I went through my separation with my son's dad, who really I spent a lot of time, like most of my sobriety, six, five to six years at that point, you know, he was in my life.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then we're separating, and it was a very heavy emotional rock bottom.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was, I think they call it the dark night of the soul, you know, where you've had a spiritual awakening in your life, but now it's kind of like this is the second time.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't heard that before.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's one of the sayings out there.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: But um so, and for me, it was truly, I think it was what was gonna be healed, not me not knowing it was truly my identity.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I was talking about this earlier.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: This is where I found my faith in Christ.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I really developed a relationship with Jesus.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Before that, I had a relationship with God, this kind of like con big bigger concept of God.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I really started going into the Bible through my separation.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Then as I started working as a counselor in treatment, I was working with essentially newcomers in recovery, what they call in 12-step rooms, you know, newcomers.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm working in a residential treatment center as a therapist.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it's very, very new sobriety.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: You're helping form these building blocks that could potentially become long-term sobriety.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I always did that up into that point, but it was as a sponsor.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: I was very big, very active in 12-step rooms.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's always been a key component, is I'm always really big in female fellowships and I'm always sponsoring a lot of women.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that started to shift as I worked in treatment.
• 30:26
  unknown: Okay.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm working full-time, single mom, and I'm as I'm working, I'm basically doing first-step work every single day.
• 30:34
  unknown: Yeah.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: A lot on your part.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lot of emotionally regulating other people.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so I needed a different space to continue the foundation of my 12-step program.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I found in church and my church community.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually started going, participating in a small group and a curriculum-based group at my church where I was still essentially having these new spiritual experiences, growing in my intimate relationship with God.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, that has always been when I'm committed to other women.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a verse, confess your sins to what one another so you can be healed.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like I always have to have that.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: I have to have a network of people who are really witnessing my walk with God.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: And they're praying over it, they're lifting me up, they're speaking life into my circumstances and into me.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I found and what was happening.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that's incredible.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's you're helping lift them as well, right?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: Always.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think it just took a deeper root when I found it in the church than just in the 12-step rooms.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, both are extremely valuable to me.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that's what happened.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think also through that separation period, you know, I moved to Nashville during that time.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: From where?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: From Atlanta.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: So me and my son's dad, Troy, moved to Atlant to Nashville shortly after there was substance abuse struggle on his end.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that, you know, was another part of the surrender because I then had to learn, I didn't even realize the addiction I had, which they, you know, kind of call the codependency, where in the it's there's Al-Anon rooms, you know, other 12-step rooms for loved ones of people struggling with addiction.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because and you found Al-Anon at this point, too, right?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's when I found Al-Anon because I my new obsession was no longer substances, it was this other person's well-being and their sobriety and their behaviors and like fixating on that stuff.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that was a spiritual sickness that I had that I needed help with.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you so you worked on codependency during this time period?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think and trauma.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think the Al-Anon program is very much like a codependency program in a way.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then yeah, I worked my trauma work came up, which I would say really built a lot of the foundations of the Zen because I started to learn how to regulate my nervous system, how to how to go into neutral neutral mode instead of going into freeze or fight or flight.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Which is so tricky.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um not to involve myself here, but I've had over the years issues with being reactive and not neutralizing my my nervous system.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: I can't even imagine that idea.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Being reactive, yeah, like you pop off on some people.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it used to be an issue.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if I was triggered, because I had a lot of unworked trauma, PTSD, fear of abandonment, anxious attachment style.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot under the surface that I didn't address.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think we all come in to recovery that way.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: And we think that first year of so like sobriety when the lights come on, we're like, yes, like I'm the healthiest version of myself ever.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna have a healthy relationship, but then you don't realize, no, I actually have a lot of trauma.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: I have a lot of abandonment issues.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's 40 things you have to work on where it's like, I just thought I had this one thing.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: And some of it doesn't show up until you're in a relationship, right?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Daisy.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: That is so spot on.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think it's okay for people to go through that because that is so real in recovery.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm I'm coming up on 14 years.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm still finding things that are hidden.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's life and that's recovery, and that's okay, but you have to address those things eventually.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: You you have to, otherwise, you do mask them, you know.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's why some people relapse, you know, because they don't address them.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, they do talk about it in the 12-step literature.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: They say we can't control our emotional nature.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I learned about the four trauma responses, I was like, oh, well, that's what they mean.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm going, I'm not just this emotional person that I need to feel shame about it.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's the thing, is we pop off or we react, and then I feel shame.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, why did I react that way?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: But when you come from that more trauma-informed lens, I think you can, for me at least, my experience was I could give myself compassion.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then whether you use the language or not, you start kind of doing this inner child work because you start looking at yourself the way that I would look at my son while he's having a tantrum.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't look at him and think, you shouldn't be scared right now, or you shouldn't be crying right now.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think, oh wow, he's scared.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: He needs me to comfort him.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I feel that in my body, I don't outwardly react.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: I have a lot of inward reactions.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I could feel my heart rate like pounding or 100%.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: Something like that.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very aware of those signals in my body now.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I know, okay, let me comfort her.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let me comfort this part of Daisy that feels really scared right now or feels threatened by something, or you know, whatever it is.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you so you I don't want to just rewind just a little bit because I want to touch on when you actually got sober when you were 22, and you essentially didn't go to treatment, you went to the rooms of AA.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Can you can you walk us through how you got involved in going to AA and what that was like?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Was there fear, uncertainty?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Anything that you want to share there?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think when that happened, I had just gotten in a car accident and went to jail.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um I was violating probation at that point.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you I had different legal troubles, all related to substance use.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I knew, and I had my friend bail me out, went to her house that night, and I knew when I called my parents, I I was gonna have to make a decision at that point.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm either gonna keep living the way that I'm living, or I'm gonna call them and go home and receive direction and help.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: And quick question.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Can you share anything about these legal issues?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: So um both of them were DUIs, like driving under the influence.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I was on probation for one DUI and then got in a car accident, got another DUI.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and um it was like a hit and run.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I hit, I ran into another car and drove off.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then the police found me sh around the corner shortly after.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I actually went to the hospital that night too because they they thought I was diabetic because just my blood sugar was so low because I was taking Adderall and drinking, and not eating.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: And not eating anything, you know, like that's my concoction I was on.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: So um, but this is a cool part of my story is my parents had just remarried each other.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to get into that too.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's so awesome.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, please.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: So they it's kind of this spiritual thing, like full circle, because the very thing that really kind of devastated me in my development was them divorcing.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: It rocked my whole sense of safety.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then they got remarried about four months before I had this accident.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I had, you know, moved back home.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: So they were newlyweds together.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, both of my siblings were out of the house in college, and I was just newly moving back home because I actually had gotten evicted from an apartment because I was spending all my money on drugs.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: Even them getting back together.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: My at this point, I had dropped out of college.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was living in Atlanta, spending all my money on substances, hanging out with, you know, not good crowds, people way older than me that were addicted to drugs.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm not even 22 yet, really.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm t I was 21, 20, 21, and I'm living in Atlanta hanging out with 30-year-olds that are also drug addicts and alcoholics, you know.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: So also there was a lot of trauma in that that period, too, that I had to unpack later.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: But my parents got remarried.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and my dad, you know, they when they divorced, it was because of his alcoholism.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: And he actually got sober when they got divorced.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I grew up.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um my memories of my dad are a very involved, engaged dad who was working, I didn't know at the time, but working a 12-step program.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I have I had a wonderful relationship with him even when my parents were divorced.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: And um good on him.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, I look back and you know, it's it's just I'm so proud of him for doing that because some people don't get it.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so grateful that he did and that I had him because when you know, my mom she grew up in an alcoholic home.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: She, you know, married an alcoholic and she did not understand it.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: She's a normal drinker.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Normie.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: She's a normie, and that is frustrating for normies.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they have no comprehension of why can't you just put it down?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, why can't you stop?
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: So she, like many people, think it's like a cop-out or whatever.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: She Daisy needs to get her act together, fed up with me.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: And had they not kind of become this united front by remarrying, I don't know if my path would have been the same.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: So they had been remarried, and my when I got home, my dad said, I'm taking you to a meeting on Monday.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was like a Sunday or Saturday when I got home.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: He said, I'm taking you to a meeting.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: And at that point, I was in school becoming an aesthetician, and it was like 45 minutes away.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: So they literally were like, Dad's, he had just retired.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: Dad's gonna take you to and from school, and you're only allowed to go to an AA meeting every evening.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: So that was my version of treatment.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I ended up getting put on house arrest for like 90 days or something.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because of the second DUI.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was really I was supposed to go to jail and finish out the like eight months of my probation that I was on, but somehow I it slipped through the cracks and they let me do 90 days on house arrest.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I had a huge ankle monitor on.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I couldn't even imagine that.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Daisy with an ankle monitor.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny too, because I was so embarrassed.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I would wear these big velvet bell bottoms to hide the ankle monitor to AA meetings.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was ashamed, even in AA meetings.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, they're gonna judge me for having this.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it was funny.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: But how was that first meeting?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: Did you start to get it at that point, or did it take consistently going to them?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: It was a women's meeting, an all-women's meeting.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: It was in the suburbs of it, north of Atlanta, so kind of a nicer, you know, area and um upper middle class.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: So all the women there, you know, they're driving nice cars, they're all like winos, or what I thought, you know.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, they're not gonna get me.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: But it was just such a nurturing maternal space, and the women just flocked around me, but they had a language to my internal experience that I was hearing, and it was starting to crack me open.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it took me, so I think it was like January 29th that I got in that car accident.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe three days later, I went to my first meeting.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: But my sobriety date is March 16th.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it took like Like two and a half months where I would string together a week and then relapse, string together a week.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I was going to the meetings.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: You were trying.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: I was going to the meetings, and the language was taking root in my mind.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then I got a sponsor, and that's when it shifted.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I started doing the work.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: So you getting a sponsor was your big shift.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just committing fully and just choosing recovery.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: How long were you with that sponsor?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: I would say like I worked through the 12 steps with her, but I'm kind of a person.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: I stay, I've stayed in touch with her.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um when my son was first born.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: I started trauma therapy, and I happened, we both ended up living in the city of Atlanta.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: And she ended up watching my son once a week for when he was a new newborn.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: And she, yeah, she was my mom's age, but yeah.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: She, I mean, I call her an earth angel.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's what I call those people that God puts in your path, and they kind of hold you up in seasons that you don't even know you're you're being lifted up by someone else.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I forgot the question.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: You answered it.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: You were with your sponsor for a while.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was with her.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm one of those people that I I just commit, I commit to having a new experience with God.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: I have to do that in my recovery.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I frequently, like every year to year and a half, I'll ask another, a new woman, hey, can you take me through the 12 steps?
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I've had a lot of sponsors.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and if it's not that, then it's something like going through a 12-week curriculum at my church where I'm in a body of work, I'm growing in my consciousness, and I'm growing in my intimate relationship with God and other women.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Congrats on all the work that you've actually like put into motion.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because some people can just dabble in that, right?
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: But you're like full on doing it, and you still are.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: I've just always been on fire for recovery.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a blessing, and I'm so grateful.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: But truly, after you know, March 16th, when I picked up my last white chip, you know, it just was all in.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't even just that.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was there's a there really is an element of working with women.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: There, there's just, and I, if two of my closest, closest friends that live in Atlanta, they are solid women in recovery, have amazing recovery programs, amazing spirituality.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: And they're my best, you know, closest friends.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: I sponsored both of them for about five years in early sobriety, and they'll tell you, I don't even remember it, but they'll tell you, you know, you always emphasized fellowship with women.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I really do think that that has been a big component to a lot of women come into recovery and we don't feel safe with other women.
• 47:16
  unknown: Yeah.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, or there's a block.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I really think that God works in our life as women when we gather together and when we come together, you know, in the name of God, whatever that is for people, and choose to heal together, choose to be seen, to be vulnerable.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: And um, it's receiving from other women and giving, pouring into them.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I I've just emphasized that with every one of my sponsees that I work with.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: I emphasize it with really any woman.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's a big difference.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: Congrats on finding that.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I I really feel as if gender-specific programming or separated genders is that's when like big time healing happens.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: I know that the shares are deeper because I've I my home group was a men's stay group, and the shares with just all men were deeper, and those relationships I think got deeper because it was men talking to other men.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with that too.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I had a lot of trauma from men when I got sober, but I didn't know that I did.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: I was so frozen.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_02: There were so many things just frozen inside of me.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: Moments where I felt scared, where I felt confused by my interactions with men, things like that, that I, you know, I don't think are revealed to us in our first few years of recovery.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: I really do think there's a theme that I've witnessed for people in their sobriety that things don't, like heavy things like that, don't always show up till a little bit later.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_02: Because just removing the substances, we're getting ourselves to a new baseline.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not until, you know, and I tell I used to tell clients this.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: If my son came up to me constantly and said, I'm scared, mom, and I just said, Here, drink this, it'll numb you out.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's never gonna create a trust for him to really feel what he needs to feel.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: Or growth.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: And growth.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_02: And essentially that's what we're doing to ourselves in active addiction.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: There's parts of us that are coming and they're saying, Hey, I need a witness to this pain.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: I need a witness to this grief I experienced three years ago.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: I need someone to hold me in my whatever, or even a joy, whatever the emotion is.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: But as addicts, we're just we're covering it up.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: We're silencing the felt experience we need to have.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's not until we start learning how to just kind of like regulate small things as they're coming up, then once we've, it's almost like this, I feel like it's we're restoring trust with our system.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: And our system is saying, finally, okay, maybe it's safe for me to show her this thing that happened, you know, when I was five, or maybe it's safe for me to tell Daisy that like she felt a lot of shame when she was 15 and dad wasn't in the house anymore, or whatever it may be.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's like we kind of have the capacity to witness those things, but it comes with this our body having evidence and a felt experience of sustained recovery.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Incredible.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_02: If that makes sense.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, it totally does.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm also a firm believer that let's say I started really using and partying 14, 15 years old, you at age 12.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a firm believer that when we start using whatever our drugs of choice are, we're staying at that age until we get sober.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you're 22, really emotionally, you're a 12-year-old.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: You're frozen in time.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're frozen in time.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you've done a lot of work on all of that.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I just wanted to give that to the listeners for somebody maybe that doesn't realize that.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but just rewinding a little bit, so you had a baby in recovery, but it triggered some PTSD in you.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about that.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that was a really powerful experience in my life.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I when I went when I had my son, I I'm very holistic, but I really just went into the pregnancy and birth experience very naive.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like I did not know that I needed to prep and train myself to a advocate with medical professionals, I want a natural birth.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, all these things.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: And when I my birth experience was I really went into default mode to authority figure.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: So when I went to the hospital to give birth to my son, they really like pushed me getting um, they kind of I just kind of defaulted to kind of what they were pushing.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: They're like epidural, right?
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: They're trying to use all these modalities and that you weren't planning on using.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not, I don't want to ever like demonize anything as good or bad.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: But for me, I know now if I were to go into another labor and delivery experience, I know that I need to be working with like a dual, a birthing coach, and someone who's more holistic.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: Have a and not only that, have someone there that's gonna advocate for your birth plan and say no, because when your hormones are all over the place, you haven't prepped, you're not prepping for them to be like, no, you really want to be comfortable right now.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: So when you're like, yes.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: When a medical staff says that, you're like, yeah, okay, that sounds nice.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I feel like I didn't know that I needed to prep for all that.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, anyways, my birth experience was kind of traumatic for me because I felt like I lost a lot of autonomy over my body and I ended up having a C-section, which was really devastating.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_02: But the C-section, you know, it was, I think my body perceived it, even though my mind was like, this is normal, my baby's safe, I'm safe.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think my body, um, because you know they say like trauma is stored in the body.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think the body having such a major surgery like that kind of was like perceived it as like a life and death experience.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I was postpartum, I had just all these PTSD symptoms, and it actually triggered a lot of sexual trauma that I had from in my substance use.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_02: And um I was kind of having like very vivid flashbacks when I was holding my son as a newborn, and it was really scary.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: And even my close friend, she can kind of recall like that.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of just like looked like I was in shock all the time.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_02: Was this anyway?
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: Was this like to me it sounds like postpartum, right?
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_01: So is this extreme postpartum happening?
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think so.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: I really think I had PTSD from not just the because the experience of my birth felt very like I lost control of my body and autonomy over my body.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think that it awoke these experiences that had been suppressed, yeah, that I didn't even really know, but it triggered them to start coming up.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I was scared.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: I was very scared experiencing them because I was a new mom.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't even realize you have expectations of what that experience is gonna be.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_02: And like my son is the joy of my life.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_02: I love being a mom.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: I all my whole life, I really I was the little girl that played with the babies and played house.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I always wanted to be a mom and to have a family with multiple kids, things like that.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I was living my dreams.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was a dream come true.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it came with a lot of unexpected things in that experience.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_02: But I do believe God uses everything for good because it just deep dove me into trauma work.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I learned a lot of a lot about, you know, I did a lot of body work trainings, I did yoga teacher training, breath work trainings, um, hypnosis training.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like I just learned all these really cool modalities on my work to kind of regulate my own system.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, God gave me the opportunity to help others.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's fantastic that you did the work.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry that you went through that.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it's it sounds very intense, but you you know, you have this beautiful boy that you've always wanted to all these things surface.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm glad you got through it.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: Through through your lived experience, how do you show up in your work at Summit?
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, well, one of my favorite quotes ever is God doesn't call the qualified, he qualifies the called.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_02: So think about that when you get imposter syndrome.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: I like that a lot.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um sounds like a tongue twister as well.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_02: But it's, you know, if you really think about it, it's like, where does my true, I mean, it's not to minimize, I mean, schooling and proper training.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I definitely did formal trainings before I was working, you know, one-on-one with clients and things like that.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: There's ethics to it.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_02: But overall, in a spiritual sense, like we end up places we never could have imagined, you know.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: We never felt qualified to be in a look at us sitting here, you know, we're sober.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about all of the freedom and the layers of freedom and liberation we've gone through.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, um, that's really at the center of everything that I do because the numbers change, the management changes, the strategies change, business changes.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: You have to keep up with all of that.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that is not who I ultimately report to.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I that's where my faith and my belief in God and my um commitment to serving God, it like stays at the center because um that's what's led me into every open door, you know, that I've ever walked through.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, it is about like I have to remember what it's about.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: And um, it's about the overflow.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like last year at the beginning of the year, I usually pick a verse.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't even say that I pick it, but God kind of plants a verse on my heart.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it was the verse about when you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can look at this mountain and say, move from here to there.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing will be impossible for you.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I was facing things that felt impossible.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_02: I never, I didn't know how it was going to support me and my son at one period.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know, you know, like financially on my own, and all these things that felt impossible.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I just let the Lord lead the experience with that verse.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, now here I am on the other side, and he has opened, you know, 10 open doors that there was no evidence of them there, but the faith in my heart and my willingness to just turn to God on a daily basis.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, after that, now I'm kind of sitting with that verse thinking about this last year.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_02: And if you look at a picture of a mustard seed versus the tree it turns into, you know, you'll hear people talk about the overflow of the spirit.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's not about what's going to overflow in my life.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's the fact that there's so much faith that I gave to God and that was developed in me that I have so much to pour out.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like sometimes too, people are like, How are you doing everything you're doing as far as single mom, working full-time, like working with women, driving to and from Atlanta to maintain those family friendships, things like that.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_02: But it doesn't feel draining or tiresome when you're filled with the fruits of the spirit.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I bring into work.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like every day I have to kind of turn any negative thoughts, any imposter syndrome, any fear, any lack, any scarcity.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I have to remind myself of the truth, which is, you know, the the abundance that comes from God, you know.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: And keeping a perspective of gratitude.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh speaking from, you know, women helping women, you're a big advocate for this.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to women that are listening to the show that think their life is too late to turn around and try to make a change?
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_02: What would I say to them?
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why I just saw to that song.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the song that's like a change come come.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_02: I would say that.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_02: I would just say, you know, keep going.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like one foot in front of the other.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_02: There's people here to help, you know, pray.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_02: Just get on your knees and pray.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like the door's gonna open.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I would really encourage them to seek community.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_01: Community is totally key.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there that's the answer.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I tell.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_02: I have friends that still struggle with substance abuse, and I'm like, the it's simple, you know.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: Get in the room, get in the room with other women.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, stop isolating.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: Just go, you know, like find something that's bigger than yourself.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's that's what has worked for me.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's pretty simple, you know.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like I have to stay in community with women.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and but it wasn't, it's not comfortable.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when I started going to church for the first time, there was a voice inside me that said, You don't belong here.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: So get out of your comfort zone as well.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, get out of your comfort zone.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_02: G get understand the reality that like recovery is going to be uncomfortable.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's never not been uncomfortable for me, actually.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's been uncomfortable the whole time.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where the most best work was done in those uncomfortable moments.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's it's kind of like when I see my therapist.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_01: There are some days that I'm scheduled and I see it coming, and I'm like, shit, I really don't want to do this today.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to talk.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: I've nothing to talk about.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes those are the best sessions.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you know, there's like there's that sneaky little voice that wants to keep us comfortable.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_02: And this old like what it clung to at one time to feel safe.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I had this is where kind of sometimes that inner dialogue comes in of the inner child, where I kind of have to look at that voice like it's a little kid, like my son, you know, I don't want to go, you know, to practice today or whatever, because maybe he feels shy that day.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_02: But I I have to look at that voice that's scared of discomfort or whatever it is.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I sometimes I don't do it as much now, but when I was in my deep trauma work, I would kind of talk to myself and say, like we're 33 now.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm taking care of you, you know, and I'm keeping you safe now.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_02: And just remind myself that, you know, these little voices inside me that are scared to like move forward or experience something new, that we're okay, you know, and I have to tell myself, you're comfortable in your own skin.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: Especially when those voices are not turning down, yeah.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and remind myself, like, if God led me to it, there's a God has a plan there, you know.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I have to remind myself, like, you know, you're if the imposter syndrome comes up, like you're meant to be here.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_02: There's a reason for this open door, like that you walked through.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_02: Keep walking.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: I like to think of it as a window.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: A window.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever that open entrance is.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: Just joking.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I just think you're such a wonderful person.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for everything that you shared today.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, is there anything that you want to leave our listeners with?
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: Anything you're working on?
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_01: Any words of positivity?
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think, yeah, I feel like I shared a a lot, actually.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you have, you really have.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do want to say something off of my questions, uh, just in closing.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I am also really good friends with Troy, your Everest dad.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I want to say how commendable and excellent it is how you guys co-parent.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because when I first met you, you had no idea I knew Troy, and you had nothing but great things to say.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you guys co-parent so beautifully.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: And when I played golf with Troy recently, like a week or something ago, he just said what an incredible mother you are and how lucky he is to share a child with you.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think it's so awesome and commendable.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I I just think it's wonderful.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the the thing that you guys have worked out in life is great.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for saying that.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I do, I guess to end on that note, too, just it is such a gift, you know, when, and I guess I this could be a closing thought, but just the gift when you keep saying yes to recovery, because me and him are very two wounded people, and we were when we met.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: I was 22, he was, you know, 32.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_02: And we walked through a lot of very hard things, very messy things, very not healthy things.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so, but and there was no roadmap other than the tools that kept getting placed in front of me.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess that's why I say I've always been on fire because I'm just grabbing the next tool, you know, like, and I really believe that your higher power, God, you're always going to be equipped.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_02: The atmosphere will be set for you to do well.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_02: But we you have to say yes to the uncomfortable thing and develop that voice of learning how to be obedient, you know, to that call.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm very grateful for all of the resources that I've had along the way, all the 12-step programs, the therapy resources, all of that that has helped me, you know, show up as like a healthy co-parent, you know.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's so excellent and awesome.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: And Everest is such a beautiful kid.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but congratulations.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're welcome.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations on everything that you have in your life.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_01: Gifts of recovery, right?
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_01: And your higher power.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but everybody, thank you so much for listening today.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, check out Daisy Fenton if you guys are interested in treatment through Summit BHC.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_01: And also make sure to check out National Addiction Specialists.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like and subscribe the podcast, please.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: Tell somebody about it.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because if this story just reaches one person that it helps them see something differently or something they didn't see before, we're doing our job right.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much for everything today.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it was wonderful to have you.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um, hopefully I have you again soon in like the next year or two, and we'll do a catch up.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Daisy.