Latest / Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan / “The Business Can’t Grow If You Won’t Let Go!” | Letting Go of Founder Control and Micromanagement with Amanda Horan

Transcript

“The Business Can’t Grow If You Won’t Let Go!” | Letting Go of Founder Control and Micromanagement with Amanda Horan · Founder Talk with Alex Sheridan

• 0:00
  Today's guest is Amanda Horan, founder of Lining Cleat.
• 0:04
  And someone has built a flourishing business and a
• 0:06
  competitive space that some would have thought impossible to
• 0:09
  break into. Amanda, welcome to the show.
• 0:12
  How you feeling? Thank you.
• 0:13
  Good. Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:15
  Glad to have you here. Appreciate you.
• 0:17
  So some interesting things that we're going to cover today, just
• 0:19
  give the audience a little bit of context and hopefully to
• 0:21
  build some excitement. A few things.
• 0:23
  One, how you broke through and found success in a highly
• 0:26
  competitive market. How you how you're actually,
• 0:29
  what you're actually selling is not actually your product or
• 0:31
  service. It's actually something a little
• 0:33
  different. It's something much bigger.
• 0:35
  The underrated marketing strategy that took your company
• 0:37
  to the next level and what most companies are overlooking right
• 0:39
  now and how thinking small is holding all of us back from your
• 0:44
  real growth potential as a founder.
• 0:46
  Yeah. Before we get into it, did you
• 0:47
  ever apply for Shark Tank? Because we had Brittany Heiser
• 0:50
  on here. Obviously you have.
• 0:51
  Cluey and she. Was on the show and that's how
• 0:53
  we got. Was yes, I have applied, I have
• 0:56
  applied and so we'll see what happens there.
• 0:58
  Really. OK.
• 0:59
  Yeah, recently. Recently.
• 1:00
  Wow. Yeah, OK.
• 1:01
  Can't talk too much about it. Oh really?
• 1:04
  OK, but have applied and it's a cool show and we'll just see
• 1:08
  what happens. Yeah, we also had Shawn Reilly
• 1:10
  on the show. Yeah, Wipes.
• 1:11
  Yeah, he was on. Oh, I know.
• 1:12
  And obviously it's and Britney's been a great mentor for me and
• 1:15
  she had a really cool experience.
• 1:16
  And I just recently had a conversation with Lindsay from
• 1:19
  Petite Keep, who was on Shark Tank and just like a very
• 1:23
  interesting experience and you know, kind of pitch competition
• 1:27
  to the next, next. Level.
• 1:29
  Yeah, it's intense, I heard. Yeah, I mean, the process and
• 1:32
  just learning about it is cool. And everyone's experience is
• 1:36
  different and their expectation is different.
• 1:38
  So even entrepreneurs, if you don't apply or if you do apply,
• 1:41
  connecting with people that have been on the show is really cool.
• 1:44
  I connected with Charlotte from Chart Charm.
• 1:45
  She was also on the show and just learning from like their
• 1:49
  experiences and kind of what to prepare for and what you can't
• 1:52
  prepare for. It's just been fun.
• 1:54
  I would recommend like just finding people that have been on
• 1:57
  the show to talk to. For sure.
• 1:59
  Yeah, yeah. And apply yes.
• 2:01
  Is Charlotte Charlotte's local too?
• 2:03
  Right, she is. Yeah, the.
• 2:04
  Water bottle charm. She's yes.
• 2:05
  And she's, I think, like the north, like more north suburbs
• 2:09
  of the scratch. Yeah, trying to get her to come
• 2:11
  on the. Show.
• 2:11
  Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:12
  Absolutely. I think, I think Brittany made
• 2:14
  an introduction. She's probably busy or something
• 2:16
  but. We'll get around.
• 2:17
  I'll have to. Yeah, we'll.
• 2:18
  Force around this damn job. OK so your business is lining
• 2:22
  cleat and you sell life jackets And we were talking before the
• 2:25
  show aired. I'd love your current.
• 2:27
  Album Nautical. Nautical.
• 2:28
  It's representing the brand, but what is the difference?
• 2:31
  So I pulled up just for our audience knows and we could
• 2:33
  probably link pictures too as well.
• 2:35
  But you know, I pulled up some images and these are black and
• 2:38
  white because we're not fancy enough to have color around
• 2:40
  here. But you know, I pulled up yours
• 2:44
  on the website lining cleat and you know, we got Navy green, 1
• 2:48
  pink, one really cool looking life jackets.
• 2:50
  Are they all all for kids? Well, we launched the collection
• 2:53
  with kids mainly because of the legal regulation and we've
• 2:56
  recently expanded into universal adult sizing.
• 2:58
  Yeah. And then we have dog coming out
• 3:00
  this summer. That's cool.
• 3:02
  They're really cool looking like you don't see these kind of life
• 3:05
  jackets anywhere else, at least that I've seen.
• 3:08
  Yeah. But then I pulled up Amazon and
• 3:10
  we've got some colorful ones and a couple I think be name brand,
• 3:14
  but yours are $88.00. It looks like there are these
• 3:18
  specifically. Wow, five star ratings on all
• 3:20
  these two. Nice job.
• 3:22
  And then we got Amazon where they're $44.59 dollars, $44.00
• 3:26
  and 39 dollars. So what is the difference
• 3:29
  between, you know, your life jackets and the ones that people
• 3:32
  can buy in the marketplace? And how has that been educating
• 3:35
  the marketplace on, hey, you're going to pay double, but it's
• 3:37
  worth it? Yeah, great question.
• 3:39
  So we when we started this whole journey, it was really because
• 3:44
  of the huge blind spot that we found and kind of what you found
• 3:46
  on Amazon is exactly that everyone was going right and we
• 3:50
  were like, we're going to go left.
• 3:53
  And so the biggest difference really is the quality of
• 3:55
  materials. So a lot of life jackets are RIP
• 3:59
  stop nylon, which is very hard and tough.
• 4:01
  And when you're focusing on kids, which is where we launched
• 4:04
  the collection, those are the hardest ones to please when
• 4:07
  you're out on a boat, right, or out on the water.
• 4:11
  And my children, specifically when we started going on a boat,
• 4:15
  were babies. And I didn't like the look.
• 4:18
  I didn't like the feel. I felt like this is the one
• 4:20
  thing that might be between my child and their life in the
• 4:24
  event of an emergency. And I can't find anything that I
• 4:27
  like and what is going on. I'm spending, you know, 75 to
• 4:31
  $90.00 on swimwear and children's clothing.
• 4:34
  But this very crucial piece that I am legally required to have is
• 4:40
  just kind of there. No one's talking to me about it,
• 4:42
  No one's thoughtfully designing it.
• 4:45
  The patterns make no sense. And I'm just left to, you know,
• 4:49
  find it and target or find it on Amazon.
• 4:52
  And so that's really where we saw the opportunity and we
• 4:56
  decided we're going to use higher quality external
• 4:58
  material. We're going to design it in a
• 5:00
  very thoughtful way. We're going to make this a part
• 5:04
  of the experience, not an afterthought.
• 5:06
  And so the price difference that you'll see is a higher quality
• 5:09
  foam than most, higher quality external shell than most, a full
• 5:13
  design process that we do in a thoughtful manner and really
• 5:18
  bringing and connecting the dots between that style and safety.
• 5:22
  So you know, it's funny because when we started doing this, all
• 5:26
  of the swim shops, all of the boating, no one was really
• 5:29
  selling life jackets together. It was like 2 separate mines.
• 5:34
  And we realized why is this happening?
• 5:36
  And so that was our goal. My husband and I started the
• 5:39
  company, but I'm, you know, the, the official kind of owner of
• 5:44
  it, right? And, and leading it.
• 5:46
  And as a mom, we shouldn't have to do that.
• 5:49
  You know, I should be able to understand what I'm purchasing
• 5:52
  for my kids when I'm buying that swimsuit, when I'm buying
• 5:55
  whatever I'm buying, you know, and it shouldn't be two separate
• 5:58
  trips. It shouldn't be this
• 6:00
  disconnected thing. And that was my goal was to just
• 6:03
  close that gap and bring it to a new life.
• 6:07
  And so it was a huge risk because for decades these large
• 6:12
  legacy brands have looked the same, they've done the same, and
• 6:15
  they've made tons of money doing it.
• 6:17
  And they haven't had a change, right.
• 6:19
  And so sure I come new company, new company comes.
• 6:22
  In and changes the game and then they they're forced to change in
• 6:25
  some. Cases, yeah.
• 6:26
  And and so this was like totally new for people.
• 6:29
  And it sounds simple because a life jackets, a life jacket,
• 6:32
  right? You'd be like, you know what
• 6:33
  this is? But when we high.
• 6:35
  End like designer. There what?
• 6:36
  No, I mean there was high end performance, there was high end
• 6:40
  fishing, high end, you know, outdoor, really focused.
• 6:45
  Like Mustang Survival is an amazing company and they're very
• 6:48
  tactical gear for people that are doing that.
• 6:51
  But there was nothing for that leisure boater.
• 6:53
  And that's what my family was doing.
• 6:55
  And so there was, you know, there was people that weren't
• 6:58
  looking to jet ski, weren't looking to hang 10, weren't
• 7:00
  looking to do those types of things.
• 7:02
  They were looking to just have a nice day with their family.
• 7:05
  And that's what we were set out to do was really have them have
• 7:10
  a nice day from a confidence with safety and a confidence
• 7:12
  with the way it looked. And that's what Line and Cleek
• 7:15
  came to do. And when we launched the first
• 7:17
  collection in July 2023, it quickly, other parents,
• 7:21
  specifically moms, were like, thank you.
• 7:23
  Yeah, yeah. Finally, this is what I've been
• 7:26
  looking for. You know, and I was watching
• 7:27
  moms make not great decisions when it came to what they were
• 7:30
  purchasing, purchasing things that weren't U.S.
• 7:33
  Coast Guard certified and not even knowing What does that
• 7:36
  mean? Why does it need to be
• 7:37
  certified? What does that mean?
• 7:39
  So that's a great question. So being U.S.
• 7:40
  Coast Guard certified means that that model went through a
• 7:43
  certification process, went through a testing process.
• 7:46
  So when you plug something in, you might see like a little UL
• 7:49
  on the plug or on certain products.
• 7:52
  And that is a testing service that those models go through to
• 7:55
  make sure that the buoyancy is correct, to make sure that in
• 7:59
  the event of an emergency, that product is going to stand up to
• 8:02
  what it is saying it's going to do.
• 8:04
  A lot of times when you purchase something and it does not have
• 8:07
  what we call the Thinksafe pamphlet, which if you buy a
• 8:10
  life jacket for me it comes and if you buy any life jacket, it
• 8:12
  should have that on there. It'll say this is not a toy.
• 8:17
  This is, you know, if it doesn't have that, they're not
• 8:20
  guaranteeing you anything. They are.
• 8:22
  It's a foam. I'm not going to say it's not
• 8:24
  going to work, but it has not been through the rigorous
• 8:26
  testing. It has not, you know, been
• 8:29
  really taking the time to make sure that what you're purchasing
• 8:32
  is a life saving device. And a lot of parents don't know
• 8:35
  that. And so in addition to the look
• 8:37
  and the feel of it, I also realized there needs to be
• 8:41
  someone behind this product to really help young parents out
• 8:45
  there, grandparents even, because so much of it is being
• 8:48
  sold through Amazon without anybody talking about it.
• 8:52
  Yeah, anybody behind it, Right. You know?
• 8:53
  And so that was another piece of the puzzle.
• 8:56
  So how long did it take you from aha moment idea to do this to
• 8:59
  then taking action to actually start not launching the the
• 9:03
  product? Because that takes time but just
• 9:05
  like how long did it take from? I have an idea to I'm going into
• 9:07
  action mode and doing it. So it took about a year in
• 9:10
  total, mainly because, you know, the manufacturing side is tough.
• 9:15
  And I actually was just having a conversation with another
• 9:18
  business owner yesterday about them feeling a little
• 9:22
  intimidated about the manufacturing process.
• 9:24
  And yeah, and I think that is, you know, some people work with
• 9:27
  agents, some people depending on the product, it's easier to get
• 9:31
  in and life jackets, there's maybe 2, maybe 3 manufacturers
• 9:35
  in the whole world that do this. Yeah, it's not something that
• 9:38
  you can just do, you know, the models have to be certified.
• 9:41
  The models are governed by the US Coast Guard.
• 9:44
  So these manufacturers are owning these cuts and making
• 9:46
  sure that they're proper and, and the way that they need to
• 9:49
  be. And so getting those
• 9:52
  manufacturers to respond to little old me is a challenge,
• 9:55
  right? And so there's certain minimums,
• 9:58
  you know, sometimes there's not price breaks until 50,000 units.
• 10:02
  That's a huge jump, right? From like making maybe apparel,
• 10:05
  right? That might be a price break at
• 10:07
  200 pieces or what have you. And so the dedication that we
• 10:13
  had to have when we decided, OK, I think this is the idea.
• 10:18
  It was a little bit different than, you know, something like
• 10:21
  making a purse or making a bag. It was just, there was a lot
• 10:24
  more to it. And so we wanted to make sure
• 10:27
  that we were going to do it the right way.
• 10:29
  And my husband Colin and I really were dedicated to not
• 10:33
  putting anything on the market until we were 100% certain that
• 10:37
  we did our due diligence with every single component that we
• 10:40
  were working with. And you know, we went through
• 10:43
  not only the manufacturing review, but legal review, we
• 10:47
  worked with a warning signal expert to make sure that every
• 10:51
  single thing that we were going to put to market was correct,
• 10:55
  every piece of our website was correct.
• 10:58
  And so it wasn't just an extension of product.
• 11:00
  This was really a lifestyle for us that we were living and that
• 11:03
  we were going to kind of open a piece of our life to the world.
• 11:07
  And we were like, this has to be right.
• 11:09
  You're not perfect, right? Because no business is perfect
• 11:11
  when you first launch it. But like, we have to do this
• 11:14
  correctly because this is an extremely important product.
• 11:17
  This is not like a fun to have. This is a must have.
• 11:20
  Yeah. So it took about a year.
• 11:22
  That was a year you mean from idea to getting the product out?
• 11:26
  To getting like the order in and then it then once we got the
• 11:29
  order in, that was another like 6 months of, you know,
• 11:32
  production and then you're importing, which we learned a
• 11:34
  lot, you know, finding a broker and kind of managing it
• 11:37
  ourselves. And now I know so much more and
• 11:39
  we have a great agent that we work with and now we have a
• 11:43
  wonderful warehouse partner that we have and.
• 11:46
  What I have though, what about initial idea to just taking any
• 11:50
  action towards? Growing the process, well, we
• 11:52
  don't like grass grow under our feet very long.
• 11:54
  So I would say initial idea to first step of action was
• 11:58
  probably about an hour. And what you do, do you remember
• 12:01
  like what were the first couple things?
• 12:03
  So we started with just massive research on the industry,
• 12:07
  massive amounts of research on the industry, pulling every
• 12:11
  single brand we could think of. Who do they fall under?
• 12:15
  So, you know, for example, the consumer looks at life jackets
• 12:19
  and they could name, you know, a couple of brands that they
• 12:22
  choose from. And we learned, OK, well, these
• 12:25
  brands are owned by this umbrella and these brands are
• 12:27
  owned by this umbrella. And these are the players in the
• 12:29
  game. Then going through there, who
• 12:31
  manufacturers what, who's styling what, what are the
• 12:34
  colors, what are the patterns like literally we had photos of
• 12:38
  every single life jacket that was available on the market that
• 12:42
  we could find in the US because that's where we, you know,
• 12:45
  that's where we sell right now and.
• 12:46
  What are you trying to figure out with this?
• 12:48
  How can we produce something that looks nothing like these?
• 12:51
  That was our goal. We want to produce something for
• 12:54
  a customer like ourselves that looks absolutely nothing like
• 12:57
  this and and it can't look anything like it.
• 13:00
  It can't be similar because our goal was to be in the product
• 13:03
  category but not compete with these people.
• 13:06
  And that was really our goal and our marketing to this day is not
• 13:10
  marketing against other life jackets.
• 13:13
  Our marketing strategy has nothing to do with that.
• 13:16
  And that's, and we can get to that in a second.
• 13:18
  But that was really our first step of research is really
• 13:20
  understanding the legality, you know, the the nature of the
• 13:24
  product, the like all of the nuts and bolts that kind of go
• 13:28
  into the certification, really educating ourselves around that.
• 13:31
  How do you even go about this, You know, And then who's on the
• 13:35
  market? What players are in the game?
• 13:37
  Who owns them? Who's the manufacturers in the
• 13:41
  game? What is the look and the feel of
• 13:43
  every single thing that's out there?
• 13:44
  How do we differentiate ourselves?
• 13:46
  Why does this matter? Are there people out there that
• 13:49
  are even interested in this? And then on top of it, how?
• 13:53
  Did you find that piece out? I'm curious.
• 13:55
  Yeah. You know, the competitive
• 13:57
  analysis is one thing, but then saying is there a market for a
• 14:00
  higher end premium better looking, safer life jacket or
• 14:04
  people just like I don't really care, just a $30 one.
• 14:06
  Yeah, that's a great question. So 1 great way that I did that
• 14:09
  was I myself, not being an educated life jacket purchaser
• 14:14
  at the time, bought something on Amazon that was not U.S.
• 14:18
  Coast Guard approved. And it came and it was hideous
• 14:22
  and I didn't like it. And I went to Etsy and I got a
• 14:26
  cover for it and I got a monogrammed like a little
• 14:29
  seersucker cover for this little puddle jumper looking thing.
• 14:32
  It wasn't a puddle jumper, but it was like a, you know, floaty
• 14:35
  thing. And, and I got my daughter's
• 14:38
  name put on it and I said, you know what?
• 14:41
  I wonder how many people on Etsy are selling covers for these
• 14:44
  types of things. And I found nearly hundreds of
• 14:48
  people selling covers that you could monogram, that you could
• 14:51
  personalize, that you could do all of these things to cover up
• 14:55
  what was on these pool floaties. And then I realized, told me
• 15:01
  that they don't like. And then from there, I went
• 15:05
  through brands that I liked, that I was already purchasing,
• 15:09
  clothing brands, swim brands, kids swimming clothing brands.
• 15:12
  And I started to go through their tagged photos and look at
• 15:15
  how many people are sharing things that their kids are in
• 15:20
  life jackets or swimmies or like, you know, a float of some
• 15:23
  kind. How many families of these
• 15:26
  brands are on boats. And I just started digging and
• 15:29
  digging and digging and digging. And it became very apparent that
• 15:33
  a lot of these customers that are shopping at these brands
• 15:36
  that I liked are also boating. They're vacationing, they're
• 15:40
  going to pools, they're doing all of these things.
• 15:43
  And they are. I found two things.
• 15:45
  One, they're purchasing things that are not U.S.
• 15:47
  Coast Guard certified because they're cuter, because there's a
• 15:50
  lot of stuff out there that has a little bit more of a stylistic
• 15:53
  spin to it, but it's not U.S. Coast Guard approved.
• 15:57
  And two, they're covering the like the stuff for the pool.
• 16:01
  And so that's really where I thought, OK, I think we I think
• 16:04
  we have something here like we really have something here.
• 16:07
  And so that to me was my mini market research.
• 16:11
  Yeah, that's an exciting moment though, when you feel like I've
• 16:14
  got something that I think, yeah, feel that way about.
• 16:16
  The recent business I started called Podcast Builders.
• 16:19
  We're helping people build their own.
• 16:20
  Podcast. Oh, that's awesome in the area.
• 16:21
  Yeah, like there's just not many people doing it, Yes, but
• 16:23
  there's an explosion of demand for it.
• 16:25
  And it's like one of those moments where you're like, holy
• 16:26
  shit, we got something special here.
• 16:28
  Yes. And I think it it takes one
• 16:31
  person crazy enough, which is me, to say I'll figure it out
• 16:35
  for all of us. Yeah.
• 16:36
  Exactly. I'll go through all the hard
• 16:38
  shit. And the pain, I'll try this.
• 16:39
  I'll figure it out. Yeah.
• 16:41
  And and that's really kind of how it started to come together
• 16:44
  was noticing. OK.
• 16:45
  People are out there selling covers and trying to change it
• 16:48
  in their way, maybe making decisions that, I mean, parents
• 16:52
  didn't even know you could get a ticket on a boat if you don't
• 16:54
  have a Coast Guard approved life jacket for your kid.
• 16:56
  Yeah. You know, I didn't know that.
• 16:58
  Yeah. So if you got pulled over, let's
• 16:59
  say you're out boating with your family and like just
• 17:01
  hypothetically say you shouldn't be doing anything to get pulled
• 17:03
  over. But let's just say you do and
• 17:05
  you don't have the proper Coast Guard approved life jacket.
• 17:08
  You can get a ticket for it. Yet they sell life jackets that
• 17:11
  you're going to get a ticket for.
• 17:12
  It seems like selling a car they're.
• 17:13
  Going to get pulled over and they.
• 17:14
  Yeah. And they sell them as swim vests
• 17:17
  they sell them as you know, floaties.
• 17:19
  And so they label them. This is not a life saving
• 17:22
  device. It's right there.
• 17:24
  But people just. Yeah, but you know, and so.
• 17:27
  Well, the reason I asked the idea to kind of execution and
• 17:29
  getting into it is because, you know, we have a lot of seasoned
• 17:31
  entrepreneurs, business owners listen to this and there's a lot
• 17:33
  of value for them. But some, some people out there
• 17:35
  listening right now and they want to start their own business
• 17:37
  or they've got this idea. And my thought is always like,
• 17:39
  it's actually like you got to have the idea, but then go
• 17:43
  whether it's the market research, the customer analysis,
• 17:45
  the putting pen to paper, to running, to setting up meetings
• 17:48
  with people and, you know, diving into the actual business,
• 17:52
  The time you can collapse between idea and going is that's
• 17:56
  the success differentiator. One of the best things that my
• 18:00
  advice, I always think that we did well was do something that
• 18:06
  warrants a response because it keeps the wheel going.
• 18:08
  So like when you have an idea, reach out to somebody for a
• 18:11
  call, reach out, like fill out a contact us form, you know, get
• 18:15
  information that's going to warrant somebody to respond to
• 18:17
  you, because then you have to take action again, you know, and
• 18:20
  I think doing research is wonderful.
• 18:22
  Do all that, you know, get all of that information, but also do
• 18:25
  something outside of yourself that like now, now it's bigger,
• 18:29
  now it's getting bigger than you, and you have to kind of
• 18:31
  like keep moving, you know? Otherwise, people stay in
• 18:33
  research land for six months. You know what I mean, right?
• 18:36
  And you guys did not do that. You're like, we need to
• 18:37
  understand and educate ourselves on what the landscape looks like
• 18:40
  and our, you know, where our positioning is going to be.
• 18:42
  But you didn't stay in research world where it's like 3 months
• 18:45
  later, I'm still trying to research and then someone else
• 18:48
  has already built something, failed, built it again, failed.
• 18:50
  And then now they're launching the successful one, right?
• 18:52
  Yeah, and I mean, we had samples come in that I was like, this is
• 18:55
  going to be so cute. And the sample came in and I was
• 18:58
  like, this is hideous. Like what was wrong with you
• 19:00
  know. So my first idea was the pink
• 19:02
  with like orange buckles and I and like the the way it looked.
• 19:06
  I thought it was like more of a sorbet and it came in and it was
• 19:08
  neon. I was like, no, I hate this.
• 19:09
  So then we had to redo it. Now we have our classic pink
• 19:11
  with like the green, but, you know, again, it was like you had
• 19:15
  to keep moving. And and like we ended up
• 19:18
  launching the first collection in July, which for a life jacket
• 19:21
  burns not that great. But we did it because if we
• 19:24
  didn't, we would have missed a whole season, right.
• 19:26
  So it's like, it's not about it being ideal, It's about doing
• 19:30
  it. Yeah.
• 19:31
  And if you you can have all the conversations, all of this, all
• 19:34
  of that. But if you don't keep the ball
• 19:36
  rolling, Yeah. It's just it's a waste of time.
• 19:39
  Yeah. You know, we were talking a
• 19:40
  little bit before we went on air as you can't judge a business or
• 19:43
  a podcast or anything, even a person on where they're at
• 19:46
  today. You got to look at the journey
• 19:47
  they've been on and you know, we had Sean Riley on here over a
• 19:50
  year ago from Dude Wives we were talking about and you look at
• 19:53
  the first iterations and he does a nice job of being vulnerable
• 19:56
  and sharing where they came from.
• 19:57
  And he's very humble in that way.
• 19:58
  I love him. And you look at where they came
• 20:01
  from in the packaging and how like it just, it's like that's,
• 20:05
  that's it was a hot mess back then, just like all of our
• 20:07
  businesses were. Yeah.
• 20:09
  But through that mess and those mistakes and those trial and
• 20:11
  errors, you learn, you grow, you develop and you make continue to
• 20:14
  make things great. Yes.
• 20:16
  And absolutely and part. Most people don't see.
• 20:18
  Year 1, you know, we did so much ourselves.
• 20:21
  And now I, you know, have learned.
• 20:24
  OK, this is where I hire someone to help me.
• 20:25
  Yeah. You know, like we just did a
• 20:27
  brand refresh coming into this season because it was time for
• 20:30
  us to mature and to, you know, we're doing collaborations with
• 20:34
  larger brands that are much tighter on their marketing, much
• 20:37
  tighter on like their whole brand, the way that they
• 20:39
  approach. And we need to match that, you
• 20:41
  know, and I knew this is where my expertise ends a little bit
• 20:45
  and I need to get someone. And so you do grow.
• 20:48
  And I look back at some of the things I've created on Canva and
• 20:50
  I'm like, Oh my God, I put that out there into the world.
• 20:53
  Like that's so embarrassing. But if you don't have that, then
• 20:57
  you're never gonna improve. Exactly, you don't get the point
• 21:00
  A from A-Z. Just like a snap of a finger.
• 21:03
  You have to look back at the FS and the CS and the GS. 100% I
• 21:07
  have in my what we call HQ in my basement.
• 21:11
  I have a picture of Jeff Bezos at his desk.
• 21:13
  That's a door. I have a picture of the vineyard
• 21:15
  Vine guys in their Jeep. I mean, just as a reminder like
• 21:18
  it doesn't, it's not, it doesn't start where it.
• 21:21
  Ends I love those pictures and flashing back and even listen to
• 21:24
  like you know Elon Musk and some of these people that have built
• 21:26
  billion dollar companies talk about how they were almost went
• 21:29
  bankrupt 3 times all the time. It's just like we were literally
• 21:31
  days away from going out of. Business you push this will push
• 21:34
  you. To the edge will push you.
• 21:35
  There, it will push you there. And so what's the most
• 21:39
  underrated unconventional marketing strategy that you guys
• 21:42
  have used to grow your business? I would say honestly, word of
• 21:48
  mouth, I think that people put so much emphasis on social media
• 21:53
  right now and social media is amazing, but we found our
• 21:58
  evangelist. You know how they say find those
• 22:00
  evangelists through word of mouth and it was through finding
• 22:05
  our people. We I mean the grind, it was
• 22:08
  through the grind. And I think the grind really
• 22:11
  scares a lot of people, especially in the days of, you
• 22:14
  know, the websites and the Shopify and the social media and
• 22:17
  all the stories that you hear are hindsight's 2020.
• 22:20
  And it's, and it's so easy for it to sound like, yeah, and we
• 22:22
  came up with this great idea and we turn on the website and like
• 22:24
  all of a sudden this money just keep coming.
• 22:26
  In yeah, I wish. Yeah.
• 22:27
  And and that's, you know, there's no.
• 22:30
  Yeah. And exactly.
• 22:30
  And like, and then I was like standing next to this person who
• 22:33
  made me famous and it was just so great.
• 22:34
  But that's like, that's not exactly how it works, you know?
• 22:38
  And it's like some of the best people I've met was through a
• 22:42
  boat show that I did or a pop up shop that I did or like.
• 22:46
  Even if it was so through social media, it was through DM ING
• 22:48
  them. Like for a while there when I
• 22:50
  could manage as people were following us, I sent them a
• 22:53
  hello message. Now I can't manage that as well
• 22:56
  anymore. But like for when I could I did
• 22:59
  I like connected with them immediately.
• 23:01
  So yes, maybe it was social media, but it wasn't, you know,
• 23:04
  sometimes in social media there's like this power dynamic.
• 23:06
  I've talked about this a lot where like brands think we have
• 23:09
  to act like we're like really big.
• 23:10
  So we have to like, not follow them back or like, not like
• 23:12
  acknowledge them. Don't do that.
• 23:14
  Use social media as a connection, you know, or like,
• 23:17
  and then they will tell their friends.
• 23:20
  They will, you know, we used to see a huge uptick on Mondays
• 23:23
  because people would take the life jackets, they would go out
• 23:26
  on their boat, they would go to the Marina, they would go and
• 23:28
  live their life. People would see it on the
• 23:30
  weekends and we'd get a ton of orders on Mondays and that was
• 23:34
  at word of mouth strategy. And I started noticing like
• 23:38
  towns more from the same town would come, would come, would
• 23:42
  come. And so you have to get out
• 23:45
  there, do those pop up shops, get out there, do whatever show
• 23:47
  is related to, you know, your business, get out there, meet
• 23:50
  those people, host a live podcast host, you know, whatever
• 23:54
  it is. I think the grind is so
• 23:57
  forgotten anymore. And when we listen to the big,
• 24:01
  big, big companies that kind of retell the story, it's always
• 24:05
  sounds so wonderful. And it's like, I want to be able
• 24:07
  to tell that story too one day where it sounds like it's just
• 24:09
  so easy. But that's the most underrated
• 24:12
  marketing is like when people meet me and they meet you and
• 24:16
  they their, their buy in is so much deeper than when they just
• 24:21
  see it in passing. And yes, maybe when they see the
• 24:23
  ad 10 times, they're like, OK, this is cute.
• 24:25
  I need it, you know, But when, when I've gotten a chance to
• 24:29
  really talk to them and meet their family and they understand
• 24:31
  why we're doing this and why, you know, their family
• 24:35
  experiences are so important to me and to them, it it makes a
• 24:38
  world of difference. And then they, you know, my
• 24:41
  customer service drives a lot of sales, Like a lot of people, the
• 24:44
  customer service I give, they will, you know, tell their
• 24:47
  friends about it because typically you don't get customer
• 24:49
  service with a life jacket purchase, you know, you know
• 24:52
  what I mean? And so, so those little, yeah.
• 24:55
  And I think it's like those soft skills is like such an
• 24:58
  underrated marketing strategy and it's a lot of work, but it's
• 25:03
  it's worth it. I do think it's worth it.
• 25:05
  The power dynamic you mentioned is interesting because there's
• 25:07
  just misconception that entrepreneurs have where you
• 25:09
  start a company and now maybe you're the founder CEO and it's
• 25:12
  like, I can't be on social media commenting and, you know,
• 25:15
  talking to customers. This is such.
• 25:16
  A mistake. They're going to think that I'm,
• 25:18
  you know, what? Am I not busy building the
• 25:20
  business? I'm Yeah.
• 25:21
  And it's such a mistake because your best content, your best
• 25:24
  feedback, your best connections with your customers is having
• 25:28
  those conversations is diving in.
• 25:29
  And it doesn't mean spending all day going through comments or
• 25:32
  talking through emails. But you got to be aware, You got
• 25:35
  to be in the ecosystem. You have to be attached to your
• 25:37
  customers and what's happening in the community, and that's
• 25:40
  really what you're speaking to here, Yeah.
• 25:42
  And even with other brands too, with other companies.
• 25:45
  And I think that, you know, we, we went through a social media
• 25:48
  span where everything had to look perfect and brands got
• 25:51
  better and smarter and they started to hit the ground
• 25:54
  running, looking really organized from go, you know, and
• 25:57
  they looked like they're putting their best foot forward from the
• 26:00
  start. And I think that's great.
• 26:01
  But then what happened was I think this pressure developed
• 26:05
  where we wanted, you know, a brand wanted to make the
• 26:10
  customer think they knew exactly what they were doing from day
• 26:12
  one. And it's OK to have that
• 26:15
  humility of like we're building this together in a sense, you
• 26:19
  know, and, and I, I don't know, it was like I just felt as I was
• 26:24
  building this that I came across a lot where, you know, it was
• 26:28
  almost like we're brands trying to convince people that they
• 26:30
  didn't need their sales or like, I don't know, you know.
• 26:34
  Yeah. And, and I feel I have some of
• 26:37
  my best customers. Like I chat with them, not like
• 26:40
  every single day, but like I know them to an extent.
• 26:42
  Like I know when their kids birthdays are, you know, and
• 26:45
  things like that. Like I've had customers model
• 26:47
  for us, for our campaigns and things like that.
• 26:49
  And I think if you are building a business and you feel that
• 26:52
  pressure to look perfect on the outside, let that down a little
• 26:56
  bit. Like you can still have that
• 26:57
  gorgeous aesthetic, you can still have your branding, but
• 27:00
  you can have that humility of like, I am building this
• 27:03
  alongside of you. You know, there's a, I'm
• 27:06
  forgetting the name of the brand, but there's a viral like
• 27:08
  pickle brand that went crazy on TikTok and all this stuff.
• 27:11
  And they really built the brand alongside their viewers and
• 27:16
  their customers. And I know a lot of people are
• 27:19
  saying, well, that's the new wave and the millennial
• 27:22
  beautiful brand is all that. But just let your hair down to
• 27:25
  some extent. It can still be a part of your
• 27:27
  brand book and Bible and all that.
• 27:29
  But I think you can open yourself up to, you know, having
• 27:33
  to be a partnership with other companies and with your
• 27:35
  customers. Yeah, I agree.
• 27:36
  And I think what you said with the in person stuff is, is spot
• 27:39
  on. I-1 of the biggest mistakes I
• 27:40
  made in marketing was leveraging too much effort online was being
• 27:46
  online and virtual too much, too much in that bucket.
• 27:49
  Sure. And and it's sort of flipped for
• 27:51
  me now. And it worked really well.
• 27:52
  And I also started this business right during the middle of
• 27:54
  COVID. Yeah.
• 27:55
  So I was like, you kind of had this.
• 27:56
  You had LinkedIn and social media and YouTube and emails.
• 27:58
  You know a choice. You just.
• 27:59
  Virtual shows and stuff like that's what you kind of had to
• 28:02
  do. But I kind of said, well, all of
• 28:03
  us stayed in that world I think a little bit too long.
• 28:06
  Yeah. And now I think it's coming
• 28:07
  back. I think in person marketing is
• 28:08
  back and better than ever. Yeah.
• 28:10
  And it's one of the reasons we brought this show in person only
• 28:12
  for the last two years. And I think it's so much fun.
• 28:15
  It's so much more fun, the connections, the relationships
• 28:17
  you build, you don't get that over a screen and starting to
• 28:21
  build a local community and be involved in local groups and
• 28:24
  things like that and then bring in people on the show, right?
• 28:26
  And then when they're on the show, we take the content and
• 28:28
  that goes online and on LinkedIn.
• 28:30
  And so it's an ecosystem now. But I think it actually starts
• 28:33
  in the middle with the in person and the relationships and the
• 28:36
  connections. And then you push it out to the
• 28:38
  social media platforms. You allow people to see how
• 28:40
  you're building it, what you're going through, the lessons you
• 28:43
  learn, the mistakes you've made. Yes, and that's marketing today.
• 28:46
  I agree. And I think, you know, we get
• 28:48
  sold a lot on especially, you know, being in the business and
• 28:52
  like, I always laugh at the Shopify commercials because they
• 28:54
  like click and then it's like sales, sales, sales, sales,
• 28:56
  sales, sales, sale. And, and I think you get sold a
• 28:59
  lot to like feed into that. And you know, I'm doing an event
• 29:03
  this summer on Nantucket. We're going back for the second
• 29:05
  time. Find those locations that speak
• 29:08
  to your business, especially if you are an e-commerce.
• 29:11
  You know, there's there's a totally different channel if
• 29:13
  you're like a local lifestyle business versus like an
• 29:16
  e-commerce business. And there are ways to get boots
• 29:19
  on the ground, meet those customers.
• 29:21
  But then like you said, include others in that experience
• 29:24
  virtually, you know, like I'm going to Savannah, I'm going to
• 29:27
  Charleston, I'm going to hopefully, you know, North
• 29:30
  Carolina, I'm working on something for that, going to
• 29:33
  Nantucket. And so, yes, there's a cost
• 29:35
  associated with digital marketing.
• 29:36
  There's a cost associated with getting somewhere and, you know,
• 29:40
  being able to be face to face with someone is always going to
• 29:43
  win. And having maybe taking that
• 29:46
  budget a little bit down on digital marketing and having
• 29:48
  that opportunity to, you know, talk with, chat with someone.
• 29:52
  And believe it or not, a lot of places, neat events, a lot of
• 29:56
  places want to host something, you know, and people want to get
• 30:00
  out and want to do something. And I think if you have a little
• 30:03
  bit of an online community and those people get a chance to
• 30:05
  meet you, that's even better. Yes.
• 30:07
  You know, that's how cool is that?
• 30:09
  Like one of my greatest friends I met through like, Instagram
• 30:13
  and her and I had a collaboration, you know, we just
• 30:17
  launched it. She owns Henry Duvall.
• 30:19
  She's one of my dearest friends now, you know, and I, I couldn't
• 30:21
  survive without her, you know what I mean?
• 30:23
  And so it's it's all connected. Yeah.
• 30:26
  Yeah, I think and you know, it's interesting enough, we were
• 30:28
  talking about this. I had a guy named Nate on the
• 30:30
  show and he said, you know, instead of the $10,000 you're
• 30:33
  going to take and put into paid ads on social media, what if you
• 30:36
  took that same $10,000 and you had a dinner with your best
• 30:39
  customers or referral partners or prospects or pipeline.
• 30:42
  And he said, I'm going to take everyone out to dinner.
• 30:44
  We're going to have a great time.
• 30:45
  We're going to talk about what's happening in the industry or
• 30:47
  what's, what are you going through?
• 30:48
  What are they going through? I'm going to provide value and
• 30:50
  you're going to build relationships.
• 30:51
  And that $10,000 might turn into $1,000,000 or at least a half,
• 30:55
  $1,000,000 versus paid ad spend where yeah, there's a time and a
• 30:58
  place for that and that might. Work too and.
• 31:01
  It does work, but yeah, but it's, but it's like, you know,
• 31:04
  thinking about where you're going to get the biggest bang
• 31:06
  for your buck. And I think that's the really
• 31:07
  the key in modern marketing. So Speaking of marketing and
• 31:10
  selling things, I think most founders don't really understand
• 31:12
  what they're selling. They think it's a product or
• 31:15
  service, but really often it's you're kind of selling something
• 31:18
  else. What is it for you guys that
• 31:20
  you're selling really? You know, you're selling the
• 31:23
  experience that the customer wants to have, you're selling
• 31:26
  the person that they want to be when they're enjoying your
• 31:29
  product or your service or whatever it is.
• 31:33
  And that's really especially for us having a life jacket, a life
• 31:37
  jacket to life jacket, you know, and I used to say like with boat
• 31:41
  shows, and it was a new concept, right, to have like a pretty
• 31:45
  life jacket. And some people definitely let
• 31:47
  me know that it was a new concept.
• 31:49
  I'm sure they did. And, you know, maybe to them a
• 31:50
  weird concept or an unnecessary concept.
• 31:52
  People are not shy, you know know that.
• 31:54
  Too bad idea. Meanwhile, they're building
• 31:56
  absolutely nothing. Yeah.
• 31:58
  People love, and I was just talking about this the other day
• 32:00
  too, was like, that's their opportunity to make you feel
• 32:02
  small, so just take it on the chin.
• 32:03
  Biggest haters on social media are the ones that are posting
• 32:06
  absolutely no content, doing absolutely nothing with their.
• 32:08
  Life exactly and and so but you know, at the end of the day,
• 32:13
  whatever it is, and I always say like we're doing for life
• 32:16
  jackets, what away did for suitcases.
• 32:17
  That's kind of like, you know, to put it in perspective, it's
• 32:20
  still what it is, right, But it's being able to give your
• 32:24
  customer the opportunity to have that idyllic moment and feel
• 32:29
  like everything is exactly the way I want it to look.
• 32:32
  Everything is, you know, as I'm confident that it's as safe as I
• 32:36
  want it to be. And that's really what you're
• 32:38
  not even selling, but like inviting them to, you're
• 32:41
  inviting them to have that experience and kind of join you
• 32:44
  because that's what I wanted to create for my family, you know,
• 32:47
  and I think when you are building a business, you have to
• 32:50
  build it from an authentic place because people will sniff it out
• 32:54
  if it is inauthentic. And it just, it's like, you
• 32:57
  know, when you're watching someone online, you know, with
• 33:00
  influencer culture, like some people you resonate with and
• 33:02
  some people you're like, it's like this X Factor that you just
• 33:07
  came put your finger on. I think the same for business.
• 33:10
  People will sniff it out if you're creating from an
• 33:12
  authentic place and same if you're not.
• 33:14
  And that's really what you need to sell.
• 33:16
  You need to create. You know, with our photo shoots,
• 33:20
  we organically have kids come be a part of our photo shoot, play
• 33:24
  on the beach, play in the pool. But you like, that is the
• 33:26
  organic moment that we're capturing.
• 33:28
  We're not really saying, OK, do this, put your hand, put your
• 33:31
  hip here. You know, we're really saying
• 33:33
  enjoy this moment, you know, kind of explore this boat over
• 33:37
  here. What can we do?
• 33:38
  You want to go look over there, Do you want to explore?
• 33:40
  And that's what we're capturing. That's what you see.
• 33:43
  And so when you're selling something, really what I want
• 33:47
  customers to get from it is an invitation to resonate with what
• 33:51
  they're seeing, you know, and to feel that they can envision
• 33:56
  their family having that moment and having that experience.
• 34:00
  And I think that that's really where, yeah, the product is a
• 34:03
  product. I can give you the specs on the
• 34:04
  product. I can tell you the certification
• 34:06
  on the product. But all I really want you to get
• 34:09
  from it is that you see your child or your grandchild or your
• 34:12
  niece, nephew or your family bringing the boat pack on for a
• 34:16
  Saturday cruise or, you know, soon to be your your puppy
• 34:19
  having our life jackets on. Like that's really the marketing
• 34:23
  that, you know, is the story that you're enveloping everyone
• 34:26
  in and you're kind of creating this.
• 34:29
  When I worked with my marketing team, they gave me this term
• 34:33
  quiet authority. And I just love that, like
• 34:35
  you're just creating this like little invitation to join to
• 34:38
  like, come on, I'm on board, no pun intended.
• 34:41
  But yeah, there you go. You know, join us and whatever
• 34:43
  that is. Like if your strategy is a
• 34:44
  goofy, funny, cheeky little way, maybe you're evoking that humor
• 34:48
  in someone and they're kind of coming with you on that journey.
• 34:53
  You know, whether it's apparel, it's like they want to feel that
• 34:56
  chic look and feel or that put together feel and the product is
• 35:00
  secondary, you know? It's a great exercise for
• 35:03
  founders to do. If you're listening to this
• 35:04
  right now, I would challenge you to think about the product or
• 35:07
  service you sell instead of saying we do managed service
• 35:10
  provider or we we do IT server, or we do staffing and recruiting
• 35:13
  or we do marketing. What are you actually selling
• 35:16
  though? What is that thing?
• 35:18
  The pain transformation, the pain point, your problem you're
• 35:20
  solving. And I think about us, you know,
• 35:23
  it's like, oh, content marketing, podcasting.
• 35:25
  But really, yeah, it's creating a voice for somebody.
• 35:27
  It's giving them a podium. It's allowing them to become a
• 35:29
  key person of influence in their space.
• 35:31
  Right and own their life. Yeah.
• 35:33
  And then, you know, build their brand and attract clients and do
• 35:35
  all these other things that they want to do.
• 35:36
  But it's like we're trying to elevate them to where they, you
• 35:39
  own the conversation now. And I think when you think about
• 35:41
  it like that and you attach, I think storytelling is just like
• 35:43
  one of those things where people miss so many times.
• 35:45
  It's like, my gosh, what story are you inviting people into to
• 35:48
  be a part of? And they're the hero of the
• 35:49
  journey of their story. And that's really what it's
• 35:52
  about. One thing I've been thinking
• 35:53
  about a lot is so a lot of founders accidentally just
• 35:56
  create a job for themselves. They build this business and I'm
• 35:59
  guilty of this. We're all guilty of this.
• 36:01
  And then I'm on a mission. I openly share this on the show
• 36:04
  I'm on. I'm on a mission to build a
• 36:06
  business, podcast builders that eventually can run without me,
• 36:09
  where I can step away, walk away and the business can continue to
• 36:11
  flourish and and run by itself to an extent, whether you end up
• 36:15
  selling it or end up just running as more of an advisor or
• 36:18
  CEO, whatever that looks like. Have you thought about a lot of
• 36:21
  that? Like do you think, you know,
• 36:23
  have I created a position for myself?
• 36:24
  Because I think a lot of times if you are a solopreneur
• 36:26
  especially, but even if you are running the company, sometimes
• 36:29
  you're like, I think I just instead of a business, I kind of
• 36:31
  just made like a really stressful job for myself.
• 36:33
  Yeah. I mean, I think that's the goal,
• 36:35
  right, is to be able to create something bigger than you.
• 36:38
  Yeah, that is attractive for an acquisition if that's your goal,
• 36:42
  right? And that's definitely my goal
• 36:45
  eventually is to create something that is so much bigger
• 36:48
  than me, that serves families far beyond me, that has a stamp
• 36:52
  on this world within this category that complements, you
• 36:57
  know, obviously, yes. Does it compete amongst the
• 36:59
  category options? Sure.
• 37:00
  But it complements too, right? It serves a different purpose
• 37:04
  than what else is out there. And in order to do that, I can't
• 37:07
  be the only person, you know, millions and millions of life
• 37:10
  jackets are sold every single year.
• 37:12
  And so every decision that I make, especially now going into
• 37:16
  our third full season, has been with that bigger picture in
• 37:19
  mind. And I think with, you know, when
• 37:23
  a founder or entrepreneur, whatever, you want everything to
• 37:26
  go right. And it's super easy to
• 37:28
  micromanage absolutely everything.
• 37:31
  And I have learned a first is to get your own mental health
• 37:35
  correct around your business. Like when I first started
• 37:38
  working for myself, I realized I had a big victim mentality.
• 37:43
  When things would go wrong, it was happening to me.
• 37:46
  I was like, why is this happening to me?
• 37:47
  Everything's going wrong. Oh my gosh, I have to fix it.
• 37:50
  I have worked so hard to change that and I've successfully
• 37:54
  changed it where when things go wrong, shit happens, you know,
• 37:58
  and how, what's the solution? And then that's and who, who on
• 38:02
  my team in terms of I'm a client of theirs or whatever can help
• 38:07
  me find that solution. So that's like #1 if you were
• 38:11
  going to hold all of the power in your own head and put it all
• 38:14
  on your own shoulders, it's always going to live and die
• 38:16
  with you. It's never going to grow outside
• 38:18
  of you. And then two, what are things
• 38:21
  you can outsource that can start growing and functioning outside
• 38:25
  of you? Like for us, you know, we had to
• 38:27
  move to a warehouse. We moved it.
• 38:31
  Our warehouse is in North Carolina.
• 38:32
  The majority of our business is on the Eastern seaboard.
• 38:35
  So that made more sense for us. And we couldn't keep up with our
• 38:38
  orders on ourselves. We were, you know, my poor
• 38:41
  husband, I was doing some during the day.
• 38:42
  He was doing them at night. We're like, this is ridiculous,
• 38:46
  which is a good problem to have. Yeah, that is.
• 38:47
  But expanding in that way. We've outsourced our digital
• 38:50
  marketing. That was not my expertise.
• 38:52
  I, you know, knowing where you begin and end and then also
• 38:56
  becoming very good at decision making.
• 38:58
  If you are not a good decision maker, growing your business
• 39:01
  outside of yourself is going to be very hard for you because you
• 39:04
  have to trust the people you work with.
• 39:06
  I majority of the time, I think actually everyone I've ever
• 39:11
  worked with has come from like a referral, like a personal
• 39:13
  connection. And that's because I do want to
• 39:16
  grow the business bigger than me.
• 39:18
  And so it's important for me to work with people I trust and
• 39:20
  work with people that I can know will get the job done or if it's
• 39:24
  not done correctly, I can give that feedback too, you know, and
• 39:27
  make sure that I can pivot if we, you know, if something goes
• 39:30
  a little wrong and, and then be nimble.
• 39:34
  Like we, we recently ran into a situation where a company out
• 39:38
  there took some of our ideas and claim them as their own.
• 39:43
  And we have to pivot very quickly from that.
• 39:46
  You know, we have a legal team, we have our manufacturing team,
• 39:49
  we have our marketing team. And so I had a lot of people
• 39:52
  that I could go to to say, look, this isn't the end of the world.
• 39:55
  It's not great. It's frustrating because this is
• 39:58
  genuinely my story and my idea, but.
• 40:01
  But I have now grown like if this, if this would have
• 40:05
  happened to me and it was just me and my husband, like we've
• 40:07
  talked about this, I'm like, I would have been like, I don't
• 40:09
  have no idea what to do. And now you start to kind of
• 40:14
  grow outside of yourself and build a like a brain trust is
• 40:18
  what is the word brain trust, right?
• 40:19
  Where you have other people to lean on and other founders to
• 40:22
  lean on to say when this happened to you or something
• 40:24
  similar. And then you can start to kind
• 40:27
  of it builds and builds and builds.
• 40:28
  And so I always say, if I wanted to turn lining cleat off today,
• 40:31
  I couldn't even if I wanted to, I couldn't.
• 40:33
  And that's how I know I'm doing something right.
• 40:35
  You know, that's how I know that it is bigger than me.
• 40:38
  I have obligations with other brands that I can't turn off,
• 40:40
  you know, and I don't want to, of course, but I'm saying like
• 40:42
  that's how you know that that it's growing outside of you.
• 40:48
  And do I ever want to have a full staff?
• 40:50
  I don't know, I come from a human resource background,
• 40:53
  corporate, my corporate background.
• 40:55
  So maybe not, but you know, I will always grow this business
• 41:00
  to the point where I I wanted to always look attractive from an
• 41:03
  acquisition standpoint. You know, my goal is to increase
• 41:06
  that profitability. So that way, that's the big
• 41:09
  thing that people look at and as a founder, you have to you have
• 41:14
  to release that control. And that was very hard for me
• 41:16
  let. Me ask you something on that.
• 41:17
  How do you because right now I feel like in in part of my
• 41:19
  business I am that last line of defense, you know and it's like
• 41:22
  I'll give them freedom they're doing their thing and then it's
• 41:24
  like but just before it gets shipped out or it goes to a
• 41:27
  client or it goes out to the public.
• 41:29
  Yeah, I'm kind of like, is it am I the last line of defense?
• 41:32
  Yeah, is it is there anything missing here?
• 41:33
  And if there is, and I go back to him and say, hey, guys, look
• 41:36
  at this again or check this out or yeah, how do you get past
• 41:38
  that? Yeah, I think so.
• 41:41
  I've, I started to flex that muscle a little bit when it came
• 41:44
  to really deciding what needed me to be that and what didn't.
• 41:50
  So, for example, you know, my creative people that I work
• 41:54
  with, I trust them wholeheartedly.
• 41:55
  My photographer, I adore her and I know I shipped her a box of
• 42:00
  stuff that she needed to get photographed.
• 42:02
  And I said, I know you're going to do a good job.
• 42:04
  So when those pictures come back, I have No Fear.
• 42:08
  And if and if let's hypothetically say they come
• 42:10
  back and I don't like him, that's on me, you know, and so I
• 42:12
  think as a, as A, and they won't because she's amazing.
• 42:15
  But as a business owner, you need to evaluate your priorities
• 42:20
  of like, what does need my final say?
• 42:23
  And what can, you know, what can I trust the other people on my
• 42:28
  team to do? So for digital marketing, for
• 42:30
  example, I have my catch up calls, we go over the numbers, I
• 42:35
  trust the copy that goes out. And you know, that's kind of
• 42:39
  where I'm like, Yep, you keep doing you, you keep doing you,
• 42:41
  you know, and she's amazing at what she does.
• 42:43
  And so I've released a lot of that control.
• 42:46
  And then on the flip side, it's like if something goes wrong or
• 42:49
  something goes wrong with a customer, the buck stops with
• 42:52
  me. Nobody else gets blamed but me.
• 42:54
  And so I think that picking and choosing just as you're growing,
• 42:58
  what can you release and be OK with that is hard.
• 43:03
  But I think if you start to do it with little things that will
• 43:07
  help you get more comfortable with, you know, because one day,
• 43:11
  let's say you're CEO, you have VPS under you or whatever you
• 43:14
  have, you know, CEO whatever under you, they're not going to
• 43:18
  want to come to you and have, you know, you sign off, right?
• 43:21
  And I think that those are those buckets that you have to start
• 43:24
  stretching your legs a little bit to say, if I have a
• 43:27
  marketing person that's going to, that's their role and that
• 43:30
  they're going to be in charge of that, then I have to trust that
• 43:32
  they were going to do their job and that I made that right
• 43:34
  decision to pick the right partner to do that.
• 43:36
  So can marketing, can an ad go out without me signing off on
• 43:41
  it? You know, do they have the
• 43:42
  pillars of the brand and understand what can and cannot
• 43:46
  be said? Or, you know, what it can look
• 43:47
  like? And if I catch something and
• 43:49
  don't like it, then that's a coaching moment for me to give
• 43:51
  to them, you know, and feedback to give to them.
• 43:54
  But is that something I can release my control on?
• 43:56
  It's not everything, it's not going to be everything all at
• 43:58
  once, but it could be something, you know.
• 44:00
  That's really good, really well said.
• 44:02
  I think you're spot on. I even with the podcast, I find
• 44:05
  myself kind of, we have a great podcast manager, Mark, and he's
• 44:09
  doing a tremendous job. Yeah.
• 44:10
  I still kind of find myself at the end.
• 44:11
  He's showing me, you know, these are the thumbnails, approval to
• 44:14
  go out. This is the last minute, you
• 44:15
  know, copy and titles. I'm not.
• 44:17
  He's doing it all. Yeah.
• 44:18
  He's the creative mind behind all of it all.
• 44:20
  And the video editors are doing the videos, but I still kind of
• 44:22
  like find myself checking just before.
• 44:25
  Yeah. And I'm thinking to your your
• 44:26
  points, like, I don't need to do this.
• 44:27
  Yeah, they can do it. They ship it out.
• 44:29
  I trust you guys to get the job done.
• 44:30
  Everyone's on the same page. And then if it does go out and
• 44:33
  there is a problem, right. It's a coaching moment.
• 44:35
  Yeah. Exactly.
• 44:36
  And you know what? I, I remember, you know, I don't
• 44:38
  if you ever worked corporate prior to all of this, but I did
• 44:41
  and, and I quickly realized that was not for me.
• 44:44
  But I remember in my corporate life doing something and people
• 44:48
  making changes just because they could and you know, font changes
• 44:53
  or color changes or weird word changes just because they were
• 44:56
  in the position to do so. And that was always a take away
• 45:00
  for me of like, I'd never want to be that person.
• 45:03
  And so I try when I hire like the the creative team that I
• 45:07
  hired to put together a lot of things.
• 45:09
  As we were redoing the website, I looked at things.
• 45:11
  Yes, there were something that needed to be changed because of
• 45:14
  the direction the company was going.
• 45:16
  But I really tried to look at it from an evaluation of like, does
• 45:19
  this matter? Is this aligned with what I
• 45:22
  asked them to do? Yes, it do I like it?
• 45:24
  Yes. Will my customers, you know, is
• 45:26
  this telling the story I wanted to tell?
• 45:27
  Yes. Did they do a good job?
• 45:29
  Yes. And I love it.
• 45:30
  And it's like, that's where again, going back to like the
• 45:33
  ego thing, a great leader kind of puts the ego in their pocket
• 45:37
  and let's entrust their people to do their job.
• 45:39
  And and so if you know, I just think if you can flex those
• 45:44
  muscles in areas that you can let people use their own
• 45:46
  creativity and their leadership and like you trust them in
• 45:50
  certain areas or it's the same thing all the time.
• 45:52
  Like that's where you get more and more comfortable to, you
• 45:55
  know, because Jeff Bezos definitely isn't, you know,
• 45:58
  checking my thanks for your order emails.
• 46:01
  You said that too, because it's going to bring up like, yeah,
• 46:02
  exactly. I was going to bring up, you
• 46:03
  know, I think because I think part of it letting go as a
• 46:06
  leader and being a founder that can grow a business that grows
• 46:09
  without them is you do have to say, well, if other people are
• 46:13
  going to do the job, yeah, maybe it isn't the 100% or exact way I
• 46:17
  would do it. Maybe it's a 90% or 85%, but
• 46:19
  what's the other option? You micromanaging everything to
• 46:22
  100%? I mean, Howard Schultz who
• 46:24
  started, you know, Starbucks and ran it for decades, He couldn't
• 46:27
  be in every drive through and every Starbucks off.
• 46:29
  And I'm sure if he would have shadowed and sat in on an office
• 46:33
  and watched the baristas and stuff, he would have said, oh,
• 46:35
  man, let's greet our customers with more energy.
• 46:37
  Let's do this. Or when you make the drink, make
• 46:39
  this little or a :) or whatever it is.
• 46:41
  Yeah, but at the same time he had to say I got to make it as
• 46:44
  good as it can be and then let them take the reins.
• 46:46
  And then when a problem comes, you fix it as you can.
• 46:49
  Right. And problems did come and they
• 46:50
  did have to course correct and culture and all that type of
• 46:52
  stuff. But it's like you don't grow a
• 46:54
  business unless you're willing to say I surrender this.
• 46:58
  I surrender it. Somebody I trust and they've
• 46:59
  trained and they're and I'll coach them if something goes
• 47:02
  off. But yeah, that's a tough one
• 47:04
  because for me it's like, I think there's there are some
• 47:07
  founders that just like like the control. 100.
• 47:09
  Percent, I don't I've never been one of those people.
• 47:11
  I'm like as soon as I can get rid of it, go do your thing.
• 47:13
  My problem is I just I'm concerned if it comes out and
• 47:16
  it's. Not you want it to be I just.
• 47:17
  Want it to be good, especially for clients.
• 47:18
  I were like, I don't want to ship them something because
• 47:20
  that's our name on there and I don't want them to get it and be
• 47:22
  disappointed and be like, this isn't what we thought it was
• 47:25
  going to be here. This could be better.
• 47:26
  And I'm like, damn, yeah. And so that's where more of my
• 47:28
  mindset goes. But again, I think that's you
• 47:31
  got to get past that. 100% and like for for me with my rare,
• 47:34
  with the warehouse shipping, all of my life savings and all of
• 47:40
  that and being like, OK, here you go.
• 47:41
  And you know, and we have like a beautiful care card that goes
• 47:44
  there and we did a gift with purchase.
• 47:45
  And you know, there's instructions that I send with
• 47:47
  pictures and how everything needs to go.
• 47:49
  And to me, it's like when my customer opens that bag, that's
• 47:52
  me in that bag. Like, you know, that's me in
• 47:54
  that Poly that they're opening. And so it is so like you said,
• 47:59
  that's my life's work. Like that's my whole world and
• 48:04
  giving the reins over was very scary and very intimidating.
• 48:07
  And even now it's like you are getting something from a
• 48:09
  factory. It's going across the ocean,
• 48:11
  it's going unreal. It's coming in.
• 48:12
  Somehow it's ending up and you're just like, please
• 48:14
  everything be correct. Please, everything like you
• 48:17
  know, and there's such a level of hope and faith that you also
• 48:21
  have to do. But at the end of the day, I
• 48:23
  want it to be perfect. I want it to be right.
• 48:24
  I want it to be correct. If something gets shipped out
• 48:26
  wrong, I'm on that e-mail, I'm having the warehouse reship
• 48:29
  something, I'm eating that cost. I'm doing everything I can to
• 48:32
  make sure that that customer is happy and we handled it the
• 48:35
  right way. So yes, I'm giving them control,
• 48:38
  but it's still my responsibility at the end of the day.
• 48:41
  You know, have you found yourself that sometimes you
• 48:43
  think too small about where you want to go or what the business
• 48:46
  is or no? Yes.
• 48:48
  I mean, I think we can only think.
• 48:51
  We only know what we know, right?
• 48:53
  And it's like I haven't gotten to that point where I'm managing
• 48:57
  a corporate office of 200 people.
• 48:59
  So that lens isn't there for me yet, you know, But I try to.
• 49:05
  I try to like strive for what would the end goal of line and
• 49:11
  cleat be doing in that moment, you know, And so like, when I go
• 49:14
  for like a collaboration with a brand, like I will shoot for the
• 49:18
  stars. Like I will like try, you know,
• 49:20
  I, I work with an amazing consultant that helps me kind of
• 49:23
  strategize and navigate who to talk to next or like where to do
• 49:26
  a pop up and stuff. And I always will joke and be
• 49:29
  like, I don't know if you think I'm insane, but like, can we try
• 49:31
  and get in touch with like, blah, blah, blah, you know, some
• 49:33
  really big brands. And I will say, like, I can't
• 49:36
  share too much, but like we have some collaborations that are
• 49:39
  true lifelong bucket list brands for me.
• 49:42
  And like in the boating space and in, you know, the style
• 49:45
  space and the apparel space and, and like even just having that,
• 49:50
  you know, I think you think small because it feels so far
• 49:53
  away. But I've learned in all of this,
• 49:56
  like, these are just people at their desks reading emails and,
• 50:02
  like, and they're eating lunch, like, lunch and they're eating
• 50:04
  lunch. They're going to sleep like
• 50:05
  that. And like, they might be like,
• 50:06
  oh, yeah, today's Monday. Yeah.
• 50:07
  You know, and they might not e-mail you back, but like, I
• 50:12
  will link in with people. I will cold message people and
• 50:14
  we'll get LinkedIn. I will try to connect with them.
• 50:17
  Like, I will cold e-mail people. And that small thinking has held
• 50:23
  me back. But then I will also say, like,
• 50:25
  OK, maybe they just don't reply. Maybe they think I'm a little
• 50:28
  kooky. OK, you know, I mean, they
• 50:32
  definitely and especially with a really large brand, typically
• 50:37
  you're work, you're trying to get to somebody that works for
• 50:40
  the brand, right? So whoever built the brand had
• 50:43
  to do some kooky things to to get to that point.
• 50:46
  And so the person I'm reaching out to, you might think like I'm
• 50:49
  off my rocker and that's fine. But one day when you know
• 50:53
  someone else is reaching out to line and cleat, like I hope that
• 50:56
  we pay them that respect back. And I think it's, it's super
• 51:00
  easy to think small because the smoke and mirrors what you're
• 51:02
  talking about, where brands look like they have it all together.
• 51:05
  It, it intimidates you, you know, it's like, it's like when
• 51:08
  you're out and you're just meeting somebody across the room
• 51:10
  and they look all put together and they look intimidating.
• 51:13
  And then you go up to them and you realize they're super shy.
• 51:15
  It's like the same thing, You know, you think, Oh my gosh,
• 51:17
  this is so far away. I I can't get there, but I've
• 51:20
  really tried to stop thinking that way and think bigger.
• 51:25
  And I think having in person events outside of your local
• 51:28
  area is one step in that direction of thinking just a
• 51:31
  little bit bigger. And I think there's thinking
• 51:34
  bigger and thinking better about your business and also just
• 51:36
  yourself too. You know, it's like, am I
• 51:38
  showing up the best version of Alex today, right?
• 51:41
  And who could I be if I really dedicated myself and, you know,
• 51:44
  if I really put my 100% focus and effort and discipline into
• 51:47
  this, who could I be and how would that show up for my kids
• 51:49
  and my work and my people and clients and all that stuff?
• 51:52
  Half of the businesses out there are around because the person
• 51:56
  didn't give up. It's not necessarily because
• 51:59
  they have the best invention on the planet or, you know, they're
• 52:03
  the smartest person in the room. It's because they decided, no,
• 52:06
  I'm going to keep going. I'm going to not give up.
• 52:10
  I'm just going to see this through.
• 52:12
  You know, there's, I mean, I had was having lunch the other day
• 52:15
  and we were talking about business ideas and there's so
• 52:17
  many business ideas where, you know, we're talking about Shark
• 52:20
  Tank, watching Shark Tank. And I'm like, how do you, how
• 52:23
  did you make, you know, $30 million or whatever, whatever.
• 52:26
  And it's not about, you know, it's not the horse, it's the
• 52:29
  jockey. It really is.
• 52:30
  And I think that trying, not every day you're going to be
• 52:33
  your best self. Not every day.
• 52:34
  You know, I don't look like this every day.
• 52:39
  Yeah. So it's like, it's really.
• 52:41
  And that's, I think thinking small and thinking big, too.
• 52:43
  It's like some days I'm dropping my kids off and, you know, my
• 52:47
  hair is like, crazy. And, yeah, that's maybe a
• 52:49
  smaller day for me. But like, today was a big day.
• 52:51
  I'm coming. I get to talk to you.
• 52:53
  I'm in like a live podcast studio.
• 52:54
  There's lights in here for those of you that can't.
• 52:56
  Yeah. And that's a big day for me, you
• 52:59
  know? And so it's like it's just not
• 53:00
  everything's going to be 100. But you just cannot give up.
• 53:03
  If you really believe in it, you can't give up.
• 53:05
  Because I think a lot of people who want to start businesses and
• 53:08
  give up, they just end up being bitter about it.
• 53:10
  Yeah. You don't want to be that.
• 53:11
  That's so true. You know, I almost went to this
• 53:13
  weird phase in the beginning. So I started my business kind of
• 53:15
  late 2019, early 2020. In the beginning was like the
• 53:18
  naivete, the the blissful ignorance, you know, of just
• 53:21
  like, we're going to do this and that.
• 53:23
  And then you kind of get to a point where you are somewhat
• 53:25
  successful. Yeah.
• 53:26
  And then you kind of like art. Is this it?
• 53:28
  Yeah. And you have to find yourself
• 53:29
  kind of being like, wait, dude, I didn't come this far to only
• 53:32
  come this. Far.
• 53:34
  You know what I mean? And you got to kick yourself in
• 53:35
  the ass and think, do I want more from who I am as a person
• 53:38
  and who I want to become? And do I want more from my
• 53:40
  business and my family and my relationships?
• 53:42
  And it's all of it. You need to think about your
• 53:44
  life, not just growing the business to a billion dollars,
• 53:46
  you know, but you, you have that reflection moment.
• 53:48
  And I did many times, several times.
• 53:50
  Yeah. And recently I'm going back on
• 53:52
  like, I feel great and I'm excited and we got a vision and
• 53:54
  mission. I want to build and I want to
• 53:56
  become the best version of me. But it's like it's there are
• 53:58
  certain times where you're just like, yeah, I'm making good
• 54:01
  money. I'm doing OK.
• 54:02
  And it's like, is this it? Well, and I think too, when you
• 54:04
  work for yourself, you don't get PTO, you know, so like when
• 54:10
  something's going on in your personal life or something else
• 54:13
  is like pulling you in another direction, you can't be like,
• 54:16
  OK, I'm going to take a couple days off.
• 54:18
  I'm going to focus on this. Like you're, you're juggling at
• 54:20
  all, you know, And so you do feel there's a lot of guilt
• 54:24
  sometimes, like, am I doing enough?
• 54:25
  Am I, am I not doing enough? Is this it is that it's very
• 54:28
  real. And and it's like that, I think
• 54:31
  sometimes like that's happened for me lately a lot where
• 54:33
  there's just been a lot of things going on in, you know, my
• 54:37
  personal life where I'm like pull, you know, I have two
• 54:40
  little girls and all of these things.
• 54:42
  And you always feel like you could be doing more and more and
• 54:45
  more. And then you think, like, have I
• 54:47
  plateaued? And I always remind myself I'm
• 54:49
  like, for as many people who you know, know about you or have
• 54:52
  your product, there's like a million more that don't.
• 54:55
  So just keep going and keep working.
• 54:57
  And but I agree with you. It's like I try and this is
• 55:00
  about the thinking small. I try to remind myself, like,
• 55:04
  think limitless. Just, you know, there is there's
• 55:07
  a room for everyone to just keep growing the business and be your
• 55:11
  authentic self and keep doing what you're doing.
• 55:14
  And it's going to grow because I did not come this far to come
• 55:18
  this far. Like, I did not make these
• 55:19
  sacrifices to just plateau. Yeah.
• 55:22
  You do got to check. Yourself.
• 55:23
  No, you know, yeah, I had literally bought a sign.
• 55:25
  It's in my living room now, right by our like TV stand,
• 55:28
  which just says, I didn't come this far to only come this far
• 55:31
  Serious, Like, hey, man, see that every day and understand
• 55:34
  what you want to become. And it's a balance to of also
• 55:36
  not falling into another entrepreneurial trap, which is I
• 55:39
  want to be like this person or that company or this and where
• 55:42
  you just like grind your entire life and you miss out on all
• 55:44
  these things because you need to go to that next milestone,
• 55:47
  right? So that's why I always say it's
• 55:48
  like, not just the business, it's about who you want to
• 55:50
  become and what life looks like for you.
• 55:52
  But I think we all can look at ourselves and say, yeah, there's
• 55:55
  more to there's more to do here. There is always, always and like
• 55:58
  there will be moments where, you know, maybe your personal life
• 56:02
  is like right here and then you're trying really hard and
• 56:04
  then it flips. And then if you know, like
• 56:06
  there's a lot of times, I was talking to you earlier that
• 56:08
  we're coming up on peak season, travelling comes up and you
• 56:11
  know, I have two little girls and I hate when I have to travel
• 56:15
  and do this. And but it's like I have to do
• 56:18
  these things because I can't give up on this.
• 56:20
  There's too much invested in it, literally, figuratively, all of
• 56:23
  those things. And it's a give and take and a
• 56:27
  lot of people don't understand that.
• 56:28
  If they're not in it, they don't understand it.
• 56:30
  Not that you lose friends, but it's just a different
• 56:32
  conversation. They'll never get it.
• 56:33
  And it's that's a hard piece, too.
• 56:36
  Yeah, for sure. If you're listening to this now
• 56:38
  and you're a founder, maybe you are going through a rough patch.
• 56:41
  Yeah, maybe you're losing some faith.
• 56:43
  You're just struggling to see the light at the end of the
• 56:45
  tunnel. What is the life jacket that you
• 56:47
  would throw to someone? That's a good one.
• 56:48
  That's a piece of advice that you that you might get the
• 56:51
  lining cleat that you'd throw out.
• 56:53
  The best thing that I've learned is that it takes time.
• 56:59
  People do not give this enough time.
• 57:01
  And how much time? And that's a good so I went from
• 57:04
  owning a brick and mortar store, losing it to COVID having a
• 57:07
  pivot. We did home decor stuff.
• 57:09
  Nobody bought it. I mean, some people did, but
• 57:12
  like not enough. We needed to find this hero
• 57:14
  product. This was our aha moment.
• 57:17
  You know, we had a very successful first year.
• 57:19
  We were like, OK, we're all in now we're jumping.
• 57:21
  And I would say if you not so much the product, right, That's
• 57:24
  what we talked about. If you want this lifestyle, if
• 57:27
  this is what you want to be an entrepreneur, there is going to
• 57:32
  come a time where you have to pick a lane and you have to
• 57:35
  dedicate your life to it. And you can't jump ship.
• 57:40
  No pun. And there's so many puns.
• 57:42
  I know it's crazy. That's so good.
• 57:43
  And you can't change your mind every six months.
• 57:47
  You can't give up every six months.
• 57:48
  I would say if you're launching something, you have to at least
• 57:52
  give it 18 months at least because that takes, that's a
• 57:55
  good life cycle. I mean, that's like a
• 57:57
  photography life cycle, right? Like if you're doing a campaign,
• 58:00
  that's like a campaign life cycle, 18 months.
• 58:02
  So you owe yourself at least 18 months to just put it in, grind
• 58:07
  as much as you can, like as much as you can.
• 58:10
  I mean, I've done things where I have felt like the goofiest
• 58:13
  person on the planet, like popping up and people are like,
• 58:15
  what are you? What are you doing?
• 58:16
  What are these? You're like.
• 58:17
  Whatever the hell it takes. Is what I'm doing exactly.
• 58:20
  And you know, go on podcasts, write articles, pitch yourself
• 58:24
  to and you just, you know, give it the time that it's going to
• 58:28
  be nurturing to grow because shiny penny syndrome is so real.
• 58:33
  I think product extension is so real.
• 58:35
  Wanting to well, what about this?
• 58:36
  And we'll throw this out there, we'll throw this out there.
• 58:39
  That would be the, the life raft that I would say is like
• 58:42
  patience. And I don't have a lot of them.
• 58:44
  Patience is the hardest thing when it comes to building a
• 58:46
  business because you get really excited about something, then it
• 58:50
  falls through and then nothing happens.
• 58:52
  And then something maybe happens and then that falls through.
• 58:55
  And then you get a, you get like a sale good month.
• 58:57
  And then you have a month of nothing.
• 58:58
  And then you have, you know, and then an invoice is due for
• 59:01
  something you forgot you committed to.
• 59:03
  And then and then you have to file your taxes.
• 59:05
  And so you have to like hang on because it will push you to your
• 59:10
  absolute edge. Like, and especially, you know,
• 59:12
  I work with my husband. If you work with a business
• 59:15
  partner, if you work with whatever, if you were by
• 59:18
  yourself, that's lonely. I mean, it is lonely, like
• 59:20
  people don't get this and it will push you.
• 59:23
  And so you have to really look inside yourself to just say,
• 59:26
  regardless of the business, the product, the service, do you
• 59:29
  want this as a lifestyle? Because I think that's the big
• 59:32
  question, because there's a lot of sacrifices that come with it.
• 59:35
  Time, money, sanity. And there's a lot of people that
• 59:40
  want the end result or the look of it, yeah, but they don't want
• 59:43
  the like, the daily I'm in it. This is the lifestyle.
• 59:46
  And I think for people like us and a lot of people listening,
• 59:49
  we enjoy the day-to-day. We feed off the how can we solve
• 59:52
  this problem today and grow today.
• 59:54
  And we have the freedom to make the decision that we want to
• 59:56
  make. And that comes with consequences
• 59:58
  and responsibilities. But we embrace it because it's
• 1:00:00
  just kind of what we were meant to do.
• 1:00:01
  Right. And people see like you said,
• 1:00:02
  you know, like I had the opportunity to be on the how I
• 1:00:05
  built this advice line, which was like so cool and everyone
• 1:00:08
  thought that was so cool. But I was like, yeah.
• 1:00:10
  And I also sweated for like 4 days leading up to it and
• 1:00:14
  practice and practice and, you know, didn't sleep and read all
• 1:00:17
  my notes and make sure I was prepared and wanted to have.
• 1:00:20
  And I was on, I think I spoke for two minutes, you know what I
• 1:00:23
  mean? And so it's like that's those
• 1:00:25
  sacrifices that you you do really have to want this more
• 1:00:29
  than anything in the world because it is attempting to just
• 1:00:32
  go be with your friends or scroll on your phone or do all
• 1:00:35
  of those types of things. Like I have timers on my phone,
• 1:00:37
  get off tick tock, get off Instagram.
• 1:00:39
  It's hard to go do other stuff. And you know.
• 1:00:42
  Focus. Is superpower.
• 1:00:43
  The discipline is hard. It really is.
• 1:00:45
  The discipline is hard. Yeah, well, Amanda, I appreciate
• 1:00:47
  you coming on the. Show.
• 1:00:47
  Oh my gosh, awesome conversation.
• 1:00:49
  This is so much fun. Where can people connect with
• 1:00:51
  you? Learn more about what you guys
• 1:00:52
  do or buy from you. Our websitesliningcleat.com, all
• 1:00:56
  of our social media, so TikTok, Instagram, YouTube is just at
• 1:00:59
  lining cleat and my LinkedIn is Amanda Horan.
• 1:01:03
  Send me an e-mail amanda@liningcleat.com and I'd
• 1:01:07
  love to chat with you. I love having networking
• 1:01:08
  conversations and love doing stuff like this.
• 1:01:11
  Yeah, this was soon super, super fun.
• 1:01:13
  Yeah. So thank you for having.
• 1:01:14
  Me appreciate you. Thank you.
• 1:01:15
  Thank you.