Latest / Andy Stanley Sermons / Andy Stanley - I Love My Church

Transcript

Andy Stanley - I Love My Church · Andy Stanley Sermons

0:00
So thanks for being here, and for those of you at all of our
0:04
Atlanta area churches, and I think they have about twelve churches joining us live
0:07
today. Thanks thanks for being there. And I haven't greeted everybody at North
0:12
Point, So for those of you to the churches, give me just a
0:14
second. If this is your first time with us, you came in a
0:18
very unique, interesting time. In fact, you're about to learn some things
0:21
about our church that will make you love us more or decide. You know,
0:24
I don't think that's church for me. So it's really it's the perfect
0:26
time to be here, and you're so welcome to be here. And I
0:29
assure you if you come back next week, it won't be this crowded.
0:32
In fact, it may never be this crowded again. But I'm actually,
0:38
I mean, I keep getting people praying for me today, which I'm so
0:41
grateful. But I'm honestly, genuinely excited because I love our church and I
0:47
love to brag about our church, and really, today is just an opportunity
0:50
that I have hoped i'd have eventually it came sooner than I thought. To
0:54
just tell you about some things about your church that you've been up to that
0:57
you didn't know about, not because they were secret, but because your lives
1:00
just didn't Necessarily I'm interfaced with some of these amazing environments now. That said,
1:06
this is not an emotionally neutral topic. So out of sensitivity for the
1:10
people around you, and this is for everybody at all of our churches,
1:12
if you would, if you would, please hold your booze and your applause.
1:17
And I put this up here because if you say hold your booze that
1:21
can mean different things to different people. So I mean like this kind of
1:25
booze, So hold your booze and your apply unless you're a home, hold
1:26
anything you want. But I hold your boozs and your applause. And I
1:30
don't mean hold them to the end. I mean just, you know,
1:33
just hold them in. And this I didn't know if I should say this
1:37
or not. But for those of you who are like super enthusiastic Christians like
1:40
you, just preach along with me, Yeah, preach it and get them
1:42
sick them go and eat this. And I understand that I grew up in
1:46
that tradition. If you could dial that back a little bit, really,
1:49
out of sensitivity to some people around you who may be processing some of the
1:53
things I'm going to talk about for the first time in their whole life and
1:56
may just disagree. So if you, if we could just be sensitive today,
2:00
that would be amazing. So let's jump in. On September of the
2:05
eighteenth, which is just a couple of weeks ago, a prominent leader in
2:08
the Southern Baptist Convention published this article. So some of you have seen this.
2:14
The train is leaving the station. Andy Stanley's departure from Biblical Christianity.
2:20
The focus of the article for those of you who saw it, and lots
2:23
and lots of people saw it. That's why we're talking about today. The
2:24
focus of the article was a conference that we hosted here at North Point Community
2:30
Church this past Thursday and Friday, the Unconditional Conference. Now, I don't
2:35
think I know, I've never taken a whole Sunday to respond to criticism from
2:38
outside of organization. In fact, I don't even respond publicly to criticism that
2:43
comes from outside of an organization. I've taught you for years, you're doing
2:46
a great work. Don't come down like Neemiah. We're doing a great work.
2:49
I'm doing a great work. I think we don't have time to go
2:51
down, you know, and have meaning meaningless conversation, So I just I
2:54
don't respond. But because of his influence, the author of this article is
2:59
in fla. It is because of his influence on how widely this article has
3:01
circulated in Christendom, and in light of the confusion that this article and others
3:07
just like it have created for people in our church. Because I've heard from
3:12
you, and I'm so glad you reached out to the confusion it's created in
3:15
our network of churches. And then as we began to hear the confusion it's
3:21
created, and I feel strange saying this, but this is the magnitude and
3:23
why we're taking a Sunday to talk about it. The confusion is created in
3:28
different parts of the world, especially with missionary organizations and churches who look to
3:32
us for leadership, and all of a sudden, they read these articles accusing
3:36
us of all kinds of stuff, and they begin to lose their confidence and
3:38
they wonder, Hey, what's going on in Atlanta and what's going on specifically
3:42
with Andy. So we decided to address it. But here's the tricky part.
3:47
The way I view this, and even though we have influenced outside the
3:51
walls of our church. I'm a local church pastor from the way I think
3:54
about this, and so you, and by you, I mean anybody any
3:57
of our local churches are our network of churches. You are my first audience.
4:01
So I've made it a habit to never say anything out there that I
4:04
haven't said in here first. And so I feel like I need to respond
4:10
out there to some of the criticism. But before I respond out there,
4:13
I wanted you to hear it from me first, and that's why we chose
4:16
not to stream the message online. Now, I know there are a lot
4:18
of people who came from the outside because we weren't streaming it, and they
4:21
just can't wait to, you know, get their clause into I get that,
4:25
and we're so glad that you're here. We'd love for you to come
4:28
every single weekend. You may gain a different perspective on us, for sure,
4:31
but maybe even the Christian faith. So I know we have some people
4:34
from the outside, but this is I guess, symbolically, my way of
4:38
saying, I want you to hear this from me first before the outside world
4:42
hears it. So back to the article. All are very smart people,
4:46
So all you have to do is, you know in thirty seconds. You
4:47
can read between the lines the author is actually accusing me of departing from his
4:53
version of Biblical Christianity. So I want to go on record and say I
4:59
have never se subscribed to his version of Biblical Christianity to begin with, So
5:04
I'm not leaving anything. And if he were here, he would say,
5:08
well, Andy, I've never subscribed to your version of Biblical Christianity. And
5:11
that's okay. We can agree to disagree, but this is so extraordinarily misleading
5:15
in my opinion, just my opinion, his version of Biblical Christianity is the
5:21
problem. His version, this version of Biblical Christianity, is why people are
5:27
leaving Christianity unnecessarily. It's the version. It's the version that causes people to
5:32
resist the Christian faith because they can't find Jesus in the midst of all the
5:36
other stuff and all the other theology and all the other complexity that gets globbed
5:42
on to the message bottom line. That version of Christianity draws lines, and
5:48
Jesus drew circles. He drew circles so large and included so many people in
5:56
his circle that it consistently made religious leaders nervous and his circle was big enough
6:02
to include sinners like me, and I come from a long line of sinners
6:12
like me. No Eric church fans in the crowd. Okay, keep going.
6:17
The good news is now. The good news is this article actually gives
6:20
me an opportunity to talk about some things again I am so proud of but
6:24
there's just never been an opportunity to talk about it. So today I'm going
6:27
to tell you the backstory to the current story and then talk about our story
6:31
moving forward. So we got to go back in time for a few years.
6:33
In twenty fourteen, Tom Chef Shunis and Kevin Ragsdale, who oversaw our
6:38
amazing network of middle school and high school ministries throughout our network of churches.
6:42
I think it was Tom that first came to me, he said, Andy,
6:45
more and more middle school students are coming out to their small group leaders
6:48
about their same sex attraction. And we had already seen this begin to happen
6:51
with high school students coming out to their small group leaders. And so Tom
6:55
and Kevin said, Hey, Andy, our small group leaders and our in
6:59
our volunteer they just don't feel equipped to talk to a middle school or a
7:01
high school student about same sex attraction and would you put together a training to
7:06
help our leaders you know, know what to do with this? Well,
7:11
to me, that is an extraordinary win. This is you know, this
7:15
is almost ten years ago. Once upon a time. I don't have to
7:16
tell you this. Once upon a time, the last place a middle school
7:20
student or a high school student was going to talk about their same sex attraction.
7:25
The last place they were going to talk about it was where in church.
7:29
And now they feel confident and they feel connected to where they can talk
7:32
about the most sensitive area of their life with their small group leader in church.
7:36
I'm telling you, I'm so proud of our church and our volunteers and
7:41
this incredible system that Kevin engineered all those years ago that's so relationally driven.
7:46
So in spite of the fact that it created some tension, I thought,
7:48
what a win for the church and what a win for us. Now to
7:54
catch some of you up on some of the language I'm going to use for
7:57
the next few minutes, this is very important. When a Christian middle school
8:01
student or a Christian high school student comes out about same sex attraction, they
8:05
have rarely, rarely, rarely ever engaged in any same sex behavior. And
8:11
this is an important distinction because of the way term terminology is thrown around,
8:16
and unfortunately the ways that Christians thrown around sometimes to the contrary. The realization
8:20
that they are even drawn in the direction of same sex attraction is terrifying to
8:26
a middle schooler and terrifying to a high school student. They don't embrace it.
8:31
They resist it. They try to convince themselves that what they're feeling isn't
8:35
real. They can try to convince themselves that perhaps this is just just gonna
8:41
go away. If I don't think about it, if I don't tell anybody,
8:43
maybe it's just gonna go away. And most are overwhelmed with a sense
8:46
of something is wrong with me, even though I haven't done anything wrong,
8:52
Something is deeply wrong with me, even though I haven't done anything wrong.
9:00
By themselves in a battle not against a behavior, They find themselves in a
9:03
battle against a defining attraction that they did not choose, but somehow has chosen
9:13
them. And they pray, and they pray and they pray. The truth
9:20
is the majority of gay adults acknowledge that, at some point in their lives
9:24
they ask God to take it away. In my experience, I've talked to
9:31
many, many many, many gay men in particular, and I would say,
9:37
they don't just ask God to take it away. They beg God to
9:41
take it away. They weep and ask God to take it away. They're
9:46
afraid of disappointing their parents. Depending on the church that they attend, they
9:52
are literally afraid they are going to hell, not because of anything they've done,
10:00
but because of who they are, because of the message, not of
10:05
culture, the message of the church. The implications are this that most,
10:11
not all, I want to be careful, most gay men are women.
10:16
You know, once upon a time they were a kid with a terrifying secret,
10:24
and they asked God to change them, and God did not answer their
10:31
prayer. So Kevin and Chef asked me to do this. I'm thinking,
10:37
oh, I'd be happy to, except I don't know anything about that exactly.
10:41
So we did some investigation. There were virtually there were really no resources
10:43
to talk specifically about what we were going to talk about. But I felt,
10:46
you know, I want to help our small group leaders. So I
10:48
put together a training and I'll tell you where I got the content in just
10:52
a minute. And so we gathered right here in this room at North Point
10:56
Community Church. There were hundreds of small group leaders from all of our campus,
11:00
and I invited all the high school students who led small groups of middle
11:03
schoolers because they were could be part of this conversation. And the theme that
11:07
night was this, the church should be the safest place on the planet for
11:11
students to talk about anything including same sex attraction. In fact, I told
11:15
everybody in the room, Hey, when people ask you, hey, what
11:16
was that meeting about that you went to at the church, I want you
11:18
to say this, the church should be the safest place on the planet for
11:22
students to talk about anything, including same sex attractions. I had them say
11:26
it over and over and over because that was the theme and that's what we
11:28
believe. The church should be the safest place on the planet. And the
11:31
fact that middle schoolers and high school school students were coming out to their small
11:35
group leader amazing. Again, I'm just so proud of our church. So
11:39
in preparing for this, you know, our presentation I did on I think
11:43
it was a Thursday night. Again, I couldn't find any helpful resources,
11:48
so I knew who could answer this question best. Some months earlier, I
11:54
had met with about fifteen a gay adult attenders who attended our campuses that we
11:58
had contact through the years, and I always was wondering, why do you
12:01
attend our church? You know, I mean based on how we teach and
12:05
preach, and I mean, why do you attend? So I'd had this
12:07
fascinating conversation. So I knew a bunch of their stories. So I emailed
12:11
I think six or seven of them, and I said, I'm putting this
12:15
training together. You know, I'm kind of making some of this stuff up,
12:18
but you've had a bad church experience that I know you don't want repeated
12:22
for this generation of kids with same sex attraction. So helped me out,
12:26
and I asked several questions. This is one of the questions I asked them,
12:28
how do you wish the church had responded when you came out? Now
12:33
there's what would have made a difference in your life. Because all of them
12:35
that I had talked to, they all grew all of them grew up in
12:39
church. In fact, eighty six percent of LGBTQ plus folks in the United
12:43
States grew up in church, but they leave church at twice the rate of
12:48
straight people. So I knew they had grown up in church, had bad
12:52
church experience. So I asked him, what would help us help this group
12:56
of students not experience what you did and that you experienced in your local church.
13:03
What can we do to ensure that our same sex attractive students don't have
13:07
a church experience like using yours and lose their faith along the way. And
13:09
they all responded, And I sat at my kitchen counter and I just wept.
13:16
And their insight and input was gold. It was so helpful. But
13:20
the reason it was so emotional to me because I already knew some of their
13:24
stories. The reason it was so emotional was because all of them began this
13:28
way. I can't believe anyone in the church is even interested in my story.
13:35
I can't believe a pastor is actually asking me to help with ministry.
13:41
And I just cried. So I took what they had, what they gave
13:46
me incredible insight, put it together. We did this training again. Some
13:48
of you, I'm sure that some of you were there that night for that.
13:54
Our students were appreciative, the leaders were appreciative. And then our student
13:58
pastors at are a different campuses. Of course, they're all in networks of
14:01
student pastors and other churches. They began talking about it and other churches said
14:03
hey, can we have that? Can we use that? And we were
14:07
very hesitant. I mean, this is, you know, about ten years
14:09
ago, and you know, this whole conversation is so delicate, but it's
14:13
so extremely important. So we just gave it away to pastors, youth pastors
14:16
that wanted to show it. And then we began to hear back from youth
14:18
pastors that said, hey, I watched it. My small group leaders need
14:22
this soap so so much. But if I showed this to my student,
14:28
to my volunteers, I would lose my job. Now pause, there a
14:35
few years before that, and I can't do this in chronological order. You'll
14:37
understand why a minute. Back in twenty eleven, okay, we're twenty twenty
14:41
three, and back in twenty eleven, our care Network began getting more and
14:46
more calls from parents whose kids had come out to them about their same sex
14:50
attraction, or in some cases, their kids just announced to the parents,
14:54
hey mom, dad, I'm gay. And the parents just didn't know what
14:58
to do with this, so they called the church, like, can anybody
15:01
at the church talk to my son or my daughter? Is there somebody I
15:03
can meet with? We don't know what to do. This took us by
15:05
surprise. My kids were raised in church, they made a profession of faith,
15:09
they were baptized, and now suddenly they're telling me they're gay, and
15:11
we don't know what to do. These were middle school students, high school
15:15
students, college students. I'm kids in their twenties. Lyn McDonald, who
15:18
I'll tell you more about in a minute. She says this. She and
15:22
Greg have a gay son. And here's what she said. This is so
15:24
instructive. She said, when our children come out of the closet and we
15:28
discover our child as LGBTQ plus most Christian parents, most Christian parents go into
15:35
the closet, where many experience isolation and depression. Being in the closet prolongs
15:43
your pain. Being in the closet prolongs your pain. This past weekend,
15:48
at the Unconditional conference that we hosted, there was a father who shared his
15:52
story. He said he got a call late one night. It was his
15:54
son. He said, Dad, I'm in North Carolina. I'm in the
15:58
hospital. I just tried to take my life life. And before his dad
16:00
could respond, he said, and the next thing out of his son's mouth
16:03
was I'm gay and as he told a story. He said, Hey,
16:07
you know, parents go into the closet, he said, But for me
16:11
and for my wife when we found out our son was gay, I went
16:14
into one closet and she went into a different closet, and then we both
16:17
just turned out the lights because we didn't know what to do, We didn't
16:21
know how to feel. We felt like failures as parents, and Christian parents
16:25
with gay kids very rarely ever talk about it with anyone, they said.
16:30
They don't even talk about it with their closest friends, and they're certainly not
16:33
going to talk about it with their church friends. And parents wonder what do
16:37
we do wrong? How could we've kept this from happening? Is this our
16:40
fault? Why our child? I prayed for my son every single morning.
16:45
Moms, you know the prayers of a mother. I prayed for my daughter
16:48
every single day. How could this happen? So Debbie Casey, who runs
16:52
our network of care throughout all of our campuses, she said, Andy,
16:56
there's we're getting all these calls. He said, Okay, if I start
16:59
a and maybe put these parents together so we don't have to meet one on
17:03
one, there's too many. And I said, absolutely, do that,
17:07
and that group grew and grew and grew and outgrew a house and outgrew another
17:10
house. And in the twenty fifteen that group divided into three groups, and
17:12
currently they're about three hundred and fifty parents in these various parent Connect groups.
17:18
And that's what she decided to call it parent Connect and our ministry that's been
17:22
a part of our church for years and years and years. Parent Connect was
17:25
born out of that need. The Parent Connect groups meet once a month.
17:30
And I love the purpose. W wrote this and I quote this all the
17:33
time. In fact, if you're a parent, this is just a great
17:36
parenting strategy. Here's the purpose of parent Connect. It's three things to help
17:41
parents love their child well. Every parent already loves their child, but when
17:48
your child comes out as gay, or it says they're gay, or struggling
17:52
with sea sexu attraction, or just embraces that identity and says, mom,
17:56
this is who I am. Dad, this is who I am. And
17:59
you can say what you want, but this is who I am in those
18:00
moments. Learning how to love your child in a different way, and to
18:06
love your child well is a skill in some ways that you have to develop,
18:08
even though you already love them in your heart, because generally speaking,
18:12
the first words that come out of a parent's mouth in those moments aren't the
18:17
right words, and understandably so, because their child has been processed is so
18:23
important. Their child has been processing this for months. In some cases,
18:29
they've been processing this for years, and mom and dad had no idea,
18:33
and they finally got the courage to come out. And now mom and dad
18:37
are starting a journey that their child has been in in some cases for many,
18:41
many years. So the three purposes to love their child well. Number
18:47
two, to help their child. To help parents point their child towards Jesus.
18:51
This is what parent connect does because kids detach from their oftentimes detached from
18:56
their faith, depending on the church they're in, depending on the language their
18:59
parents have used, depending on the language their parents use when they respond to
19:02
their kids. So to teach parents how even if you're not so sure you
19:06
disagree with the decisions your kids have made, how to continue to point them
19:08
to Jesus. And the number three and this is the most important one.
19:11
I love this. And also to help parents discover what God wants to do
19:18
in their own hearts. Because parents, you know this and grandparents. We
19:22
parent through the filters of our heart. We parent through the filter of our
19:26
insecurities, We parent through the filters of our fears, and we parent through
19:30
the filters of our hopes and dreams for our kids. Right, and when
19:34
a young man or young woman comes out to their parents that they're gay or
19:38
whatever term they use, in that moment, the parents insecurities and fears skyrocket,
19:47
and in that moment, their hopes and dreams for their children vanish.
19:53
And that's a place a parent never wants to be and they find theirselves suddenly.
20:02
So then Debbie came along and she said, I've got another idea.
20:04
She said, now that we've got all these parent connect groups, I want
20:07
to do a quarterly event where we bring all of them together so that they
20:12
can see each other in one room at one time. Because on this journey,
20:18
on this journey, knowing you are not alone is encouraging, is extremely
20:22
encouraging. But knowing that you are not alone at your church is life giving.
20:27
For some parents, they would say it was breathtaking. So once a
20:33
quarter on a Thursday night here at North Point Community Church over in the attic
20:36
where middle school meets on Sunday, morning, we have an event. W
20:38
hosts this event. There's generally one hundred and fifty or so parents, and
20:42
now they've invited their high school kids, depending on what they're doing that night,
20:45
to attend as well. And they'll have a speaker or they'll have a
20:48
panel, they have somebody that tells their story. And parents, oftentimes they
20:52
weren't they don't want to go to somebody's home and sort of you know,
20:56
out themselves as a parent with an LGBTQ plus kid. So they'll come to
21:00
this quarterly gathering knowing there's more people, and they imagine that. They pull
21:03
up in the parking lot behind the building and they sit and they have to
21:08
talk themselves into going in because who's in there? Who am I going to
21:15
see? What am I saying about myself as a parent? What am I
21:21
saying about one of my children? And if they get the courage to get
21:26
out of the car and walk up those steps and walk in that room,
21:30
something amazing happens. They are not alone, and they are not alone at
21:38
their church. I love this statement. This is from the apparent connect literature
21:44
that they that they've created and I and in some ways this is the problem.
21:48
You have been addressing for years and you didn't even know what it is.
21:52
Why I love my church, love our church, and this is this
21:56
is the problem that every church should address. And one of the frustrations for
21:59
me about all the criticism we've received and all the criticism you see. And
22:03
I know this sounds more arrogant than I mean for it too. I'm like,
22:06
you shouldn't be criticizing us, you should come and learn from us.
22:11
We've been doing this for years. Every evangelical, every conservative church needs to
22:15
figure this out. And I work with some of the most the greatest staff
22:19
in the world who have weighed into this messy situation. And I'm not saying
22:23
kids are a mess or parents are a mess. I'm just saying, is
22:26
it is messy because of the messaging of the church for many, many years
22:32
that have just discounted this whole topic. So here's what I love. This
22:36
is what I think. Debbie wrote this. She said, ours should be
22:38
ours should be the last generation of parents and families in the local church who
22:45
go through this experience feeling isolated and without hope. In other words, let's
22:49
put an end to this. Let's create communities inside of our church where again,
22:55
as I said to that group, you know, almost ten years ago,
22:57
the church should be the safest place on the planet for students to talk
23:00
about anything, including same sex attraction. And the church should be the safest
23:04
place on the planet for parents to talk about anything, including their kids who
23:10
were struggling with and wrestling with same sex attraction, or their kids that have
23:12
just come out and embraced the identity of mom, dad, I'm gay.
23:18
Moving on. In twenty thirteen, Greg and Lynn MacDonald, who had moved
23:22
to Atlanta pretty recently, began attending Gwinnett Church. Twelve years earlier. Before
23:27
that time, their son, Greg Junior, had he was seventeen years old.
23:30
At seventeen or eighteen years old, he was found out and eventually and
23:36
immediately came out. Greg Junior was raised in church. The McDonald's are conservative
23:41
Christian's Bible believing Christians. Their son and daughter grew up going to Christian school,
23:45
so this took them by complete surprise. They just didn't see this coming
23:51
at all. They said, we felt like we had to choose between our
23:53
faith and our child. This is a tension just about every conservative or evangelical
24:02
Christian family feels when one of their kids comes out. I feel like,
24:06
based on what I was taught, how the Bible was taught to me,
24:08
I can either hang on to my faith or I can hang on to my
24:11
child. But how do I hang on to both? Lynn says she shared
24:15
some of her story at the conference. In the last couple of days.
24:18
She said, I became Bible mama. Bible mama. It's like, if
24:21
I can just feed my son enough Bible versus, certainly he's going to realize
24:25
I'm not really gay, or this is wrong, or I need to change,
24:27
or I need to stop, or I need to quit. And she
24:30
said, I just kept feeding verse after verse after verse, and we would
24:32
have these discussions, she said, until we didn't because he just stopped engaging
24:38
in the conversation. Their story is they completely alienated their son. They did
24:44
it all wrong, good motives love their son, did it wrong. And
24:48
then God began to do a work in their heart and they quit trying to
24:55
change him and they discovered new ways to love him, and then they begin
25:02
to rebuild the relationship. So when they began going to Gwenett Church, they
25:06
found out about parent connecting. They sat down with Debbie and Bill Willis and
25:10
they said, hey, we want to help I mean, we want to
25:11
help other parents not experience what we've experienced. We did it all wrong.
25:15
We want to help other parents get this right. We don't want another generation
25:19
of gay kids or kids who grab that title or grab that identity. We
25:25
don't want another generation of same sex attracted kids or gay kids to feel like
25:29
they have to leave their faith and leave the church. There's got to be
25:32
a better way forward. We want to help you figure that out. So
25:33
they had lunch, and into lunch, Debbie and Bill said to Greg and
25:37
Llan, you know what, because of your season of life and because of
25:40
your life experience, we don't think instead of just helping us, we think
25:44
you should do something nationally. So they sort of cast the vision, why
25:48
don't you do something digitally for parents all over the country, maybe all over
25:51
the world, to use your experience to help parents navigate this revelation when it's
25:56
revealed to them that one of their kids is gay or GBTQ plus or whatever
26:00
their children are wrestling with at the time. What why don't why don't you
26:04
expand this beyond just you know, local churches in Atlanta. So as they
26:07
begin to talk that that idea was born. And at the time, I'm
26:11
Lynn greg and lynn Lyn's Lynn had was at the tail end of her journey
26:17
with cancer, and so her signature sign off for her email was always Embracing
26:22
the Journey. Lynn McDonald and Debbie said, well, in terms of a
26:25
name for this ministry, I think you've got a name for this ministry.
26:27
I think you just call it Embracing the Journey. And so the Ministry of
26:32
Embracing the Journey with Gregor and McDonald was born. They created digital groups all
26:37
over the country. They began to coach and counsel with pastors whose kids had
26:41
come out. And you know, when a pastor's child comes out, and
26:44
if you're in the very conservative church, suddenly mom and dad don't know what
26:48
to do. Suddenly, imagine this, you are pastoring a church where your
26:52
child is it welcome. You are pastoring a church and you have to keep
26:56
what's going on in your family a secret from the church people, otherwise you
27:00
will feel judged and alienated by the people you are shepherding. So they began
27:07
to meet and the council and have expanded and just created incredible goodwill and have
27:11
done amazing things. They do zoom calls with missionaries all over the world.
27:15
Missionaries have said, if my mission board found out about my daughter, they
27:18
probably would kick me off the mission fields. If my support group, my
27:22
financial support group found out about my son, I would lose my financial support.
27:26
Those kinds of situations. So time went by, they wrote a book
27:32
called Embracing the Journey. It's available as their story. Last year, Greg
27:36
and Lynn then reached out and said, hey, we want to do a
27:37
conference. We do all of our ministry, you know, digitally, but
27:40
we'd like to do a conference that we can invite parents with LGBTQ plus kids,
27:45
and we want to invite some experts to talk to them to help them
27:49
take their next step, make sure that they're healthy personally, make sure that
27:52
their marriages are healthy as they, you know, continue this journey with their
27:56
precious children. That we want to call it the uncon Additional Conference. And
28:00
so of course we said, well sure, I mean, we've already we've
28:03
been in this space for ten years. Why wouldn't we host the conference.
28:07
Well, as soon as they began marketing the conference, all the Christian critics
28:14
pounced. They were What they said about Greg and Lynn was cruel what they
28:18
said about Debbie Causey and al was cruel. What they said about you was
28:21
cruel. You need to flee the church. And he's a heretic. He's
28:25
sending people to hell. You know. I don't know if you saw some
28:26
of the stuff, hopefully not. I look at it all. I never
28:29
turned away from criticism. It's the only way to learn. And sometimes I
28:32
go, huh, I hope heaven's big and we're different areas of anyway,
28:37
Sorry, no clapping, remember no clapping. Yeah, I would have I
28:44
would have clapped at that anyway. So the and and and they came after,
28:49
they came after me, and the criticism on that and again, the
28:53
criticism toward the conference was so intense. Two of the primary communicators and presenters
29:00
pulled out One is a household name and Christen one of the most famous authors
29:06
in the United States. I would say twenty percent of you at least have
29:08
read at least one or two of his books. And he said, I
29:12
just can't drag my family through this because of the online criticism. The problem
29:19
is, or a big part of the problem is the critics of the conference.
29:22
They never took time to discover the actual purpose of the Unconditional Conference.
29:26
The story became Andy Stanley is hosting a gay affirming conference at north Point Community
29:30
Church, and many of you saw bits and pieces and podcasts and articles and
29:36
so of course, since you didn't know anything about the conference, you didn't
29:38
know anything about our history in this space. Of course, some of you
29:41
were confused, some of you were and some of you are mad and angry,
29:45
and families have left our church. And Diane, my assistant for twenty
29:48
five years, this year, she would tell you anybody that called, texted,
29:52
voicemail, email, I responded to personally, I just lie. There
29:56
were days I met with three families at a time to say, here's what's
30:00
going on, here's the backstory. Most of them are like, oh,
30:03
thank you, I didn't know that. Others of them are like, honestly,
30:04
Andy, I just don't believe you. And you know, we're out.
30:07
And it's why I chose to spend an entire Sunday talking about this.
30:11
So the purpose of the Unconditional Conference was not to equip parents to convince their
30:17
gay kids that they weren't gay or shouldn't be gay. That was not the
30:19
purpose of the conference. Every parent who attended the conference had already tried that,
30:23
right, Christian parents of LGBDQ plus kids go there. Immediately they pull
30:30
out the verses, they argue, they I mean, that's that's just where
30:33
parents go. They pull out the convinced convict, coerce control, convince convict,
30:37
coers control, convict convict, you know, convince convict, coerce control,
30:41
And just as a parenting strategy in general, how effective is that?
30:45
I mean that does it work with your kids? That didn't work on you
30:48
when you were a kid. The purpose of the conference wasn't to equip parents
30:52
to debate with their kids. The purpose of the conference, of the Unconditional
30:56
Conference was to equip parents to connect with their kids, and to reconnect with
31:00
their kids, and to stay connected with their kids so they would have influence
31:04
to keep their kids connected to their faith and keep their kids connected to Jesus.
31:11
So the ten presenters are dire at a few more of that, I
31:14
think than that. But the ten plus presenters that the McDonald's invited to speak
31:18
at their conference, they chose the presenters based on that purpose. This wasn't
31:25
a debate, This wasn't one side's going to present the other side. It
31:26
wasn't that at all. They had healthcare professionals, marriage counselors, mental health
31:32
professionals, some pastors. They invited me to speak, USA that I don't
31:34
want to speak, but if you want to interview me, I'd be happy
31:37
to be a part of this. I'm so proud of our church for hosting
31:40
this. The presenters, these were presenters. The McDonald's knew this is so
31:44
important. The presenters they chose were presenters that Greg and Lynn knew from their
31:51
personal experience, would be most helpful for these parents. And they should know
31:56
because they are one of those parents. And this is why Justin and Brian
32:02
were invited, the two married gay men at the center of all the controversy.
32:06
And I'm sure that you've read all about that. And here's the thing
32:08
about Brian and Justin. Their stories and their journeys of growing up in church
32:15
and maintaining their faith in Christ, and their commitment to follow Christ all through
32:21
their high school and college and singles and all up to the time that they
32:24
were married. Their story is so powerful for parents of gay especially kids,
32:30
that it's the story gay parents with the gay kids need to hear. It
32:36
is virtually impossible and you know this if you stop to think about it.
32:37
It is virtually impossible for a straight, heterosexual parent to understand what's going on
32:43
in the heart and mind of their same sex attracted child, when oftentimes their
32:46
own child can't or won't verbalize it. And these two guys have an incredible
32:54
way of helping parents understand what's going on in the mind and the hearts of
33:00
their gay kids. They do an incredible job helping Christian parents understands understand because
33:05
they have been where those parents' children are. Now. The other thing that
33:12
the critics didn't know, and I'm glad they didn't, but it's okay.
33:14
They're going to now. Both both Brian and Justin had already spoken at our
33:21
church on separate occasions at the quarterly gathering of parent connect so we had already
33:28
heard what they were going to say. We already knew how effective they were
33:31
connecting with parents of gay kids in particular. So this wasn't a surprise.
33:37
This wasn't a guest, this isn't this wasn't a hey, I hope this
33:40
works out. These guys are so excited about what we are doing because they
33:47
like you, like me, like compassionate Christians don't want another generation of LGBTQ
33:53
plus kids to feel like, Hey, who I think I am is incompatible
33:59
with at least a ten to follow Jesus, And it's incompatible with the Church
34:02
because there is a bridge and these guys are bridge builders. And again they
34:07
know that I don't line up with everything with them theologically or the way they
34:12
interpret certain passages of scripture. But hey, the conference wasn't for me.
34:17
The conference wasn't for most of you. I guarantee you, the conference wasn't
34:22
for any of the critics because the moment or the day that they discover one
34:28
of their children or one of their grandchildren claims to be gay or transgender or
34:35
questioning, they are going to scramble for people that can help them get inside
34:39
the hearts and minds of their children. That's what good parents do. So
34:47
we knew exactly what they were going to talk about at the conference. But
34:52
again this and again, this was not a theology conference. It wasn't a
34:54
Bible conference. It was a pastoring conference. And I just want to say
35:00
the conference was amazing. Oh my goodness, it was just amazing. I
35:06
was so proud of our church. Anyway, now, based on how all
35:08
of this was presented by our online critics. I understand the confusion. I
35:13
understand some of the anger that you've experienced toward me. You feel like somebody's
35:16
doing something behind your back. I understand the embarrassment some of you had.
35:20
People were sharing with you what your pastor said. Did you know your pastor
35:23
said this? You're like, oh, my goodness, I've never heard him
35:24
say that, but here it is in an article written by somebody I don't
35:27
know. I'm sure it's true. So I understand people are giving you articles
35:34
and sending you stuff, and you're like, I had no idea this was
35:36
going on in my church. So I'm so sorry for the confusion. That's
35:39
why I wanted to take an entire Sunday to talk about it. Now.
35:42
Turning the corner. If I'm sitting out here and I'm a parent or a
35:45
grandparent, here's what I'm thinking about. Now. Okay, Andy, that's
35:46
fascinating to know any of that. That sounds pretty good, But but tell
35:50
me, assure me, reassure me. What do we believe? What does
35:54
our church believe? In church is our side? You can find individuals who
36:00
leave just about anything, everything, and nothing The better question, perhaps is
36:05
this question, what do we teach? What do we teach your children,
36:09
your grandchildren? What do we teach about these issues? And it's the same
36:14
thing we have taught for twenty eight years. Nothing has changed. Again,
36:17
I tell you all the time, Sandra and I raised our kids in these
36:20
environments. We are thoroughly satisfied customers. The thought that somebody is leaving our
36:25
church over misinformation and pulling their kids out of our fabulous environments, that breaks
36:30
my heart. Their parents are going to be fine. You can find good
36:31
preaching to you, you know, just about anywhere, but the environments that
36:35
we've created for kids are they are the best. Again, thoroughly satisfied customers.
36:39
But as it relates to sexuality, here's what we teach, and hopefully
36:44
you know this. I feel like, if you've been coming for a while,
36:45
there should be no question about this, but I don't mind just putting
36:49
it out there. We teach what I refer to as a New Testament sexual
36:52
ethic. In fact, I read a whole book about this, the New
36:53
Rules for Love, Sex and Dating. My son Andrew calls it loving sex
36:58
and Dating. I'm like, that's not the name of the book. It's
37:00
the new rules for love, sex and dating. So from middle school to
37:04
high school, to college, to singles to marriage to single a single again,
37:09
every age and stage of life. This is what we teach, whether
37:12
a student is straight or gay or questioning. This is what we say,
37:15
Hey, if you're gonna follow Jesus while you're figuring this out, if you're
37:19
gonna follow Jesus as you struggle with your identity or some of the things you're
37:22
feeling as your as your if you're gonna follow Jesus, here's what it looks
37:27
like sexually to follow Jesus. And the reason your heavenly Father has called you
37:30
to live this way is because he loves you. And here it is.
37:32
It's just three statements. Number One, Honor God with your body because the
37:39
Holy Spirit lives in you, and your body is how people know what you
37:43
believe in where you stand, and your behavior through your body is to exemplify
37:46
the goodness of God and the grace of God and the love of God.
37:50
So you always honor God with your body, and you always honor other people's
37:52
bodies. Number two, don't be mastered by anything, not by porn,
37:59
not by a sexual a don't be mastered by another person. Don't be mastered
38:02
by your infatuation, don't be mastered by your lust. Don't be mastered by
38:07
anything. You have a master, and he's a king, and he loves
38:12
you, and he created you, and he knows what's best for you.
38:15
And number three the old fashion one. Don't sexualize a relationship outside of marriage.
38:19
That is so old fashioned. No sex before married, well if you're
38:22
not married. I mean, who even teaches that anymore? Always have,
38:30
always will. And when people think we've listened, you know, wandered away
38:36
from this this. Earlier this year, Joel Thomas did this amazing series called
38:39
Intimate Encounters, and in one of the messages it was specifically about fidelity in
38:45
marriage and sexual purity outside of marriage. And I mean he jus was right
38:49
on the nose. And at the end of the message at one campus at
38:52
least people broke out clapping like, yes, we're glad somebody believes that.
38:58
And here's why we're not gonna blink on this. And I've asked, you
39:02
know, people in crowds this question. I've asked many people, dozens of
39:06
people over the you know, a desk this question. Hey has sex outside
39:08
of marriage made your life better or has it made it more complicated? Has
39:14
sex outside of marriage made the person you had sex with? Did it make
39:16
their life better? Or did it make their life more complicated? And honest
39:21
people say yeah, it created some complications. Well, then what do you
39:30
expect your heavenly father to say, who loves you and loves the person whose
39:35
life you may have set back? What do you think there heavenly father is
39:39
going to say about sexual activity when oftentimes are sex outside of marriage makes you
39:45
a liar for life because you're never going to tell the truth about your past
39:49
because you're too a shamed What do you what did you expect? So the
39:52
message is the same for everybody. Sex is for married people. Along these
39:57
same lines, we affirm all three of the apost Paul's statements on the topic
40:00
of same sex sex Romans won first Corinthians six one Timothy one. He references
40:07
this, and we affirm exactly what the Apostle Paul says. In other words,
40:09
what the Apostle Paul called sin was sin then and it's sin now regarding
40:15
marriage. And this feels weird to even say this, but just make sure
40:19
everybody knows where we are we talk about marriage or we talk about and teach
40:23
about marriage the same way Jesus and the apostles do. Every instruction in the
40:29
Bible regarding marriage references or assumes a husband and a wife, a man or
40:34
a woman, So biblical marriage, biblical marriage is between a man and a
40:39
woman. We've never shied away from that. We don't change the words that
40:44
order not to offend people. Now here's what may surprise all of us straight
40:49
people. The gay attenders in our churches. They aren't shocked that we talk
40:54
that way. They aren't shocked by that. They expect fat they grew up
41:01
on. That they hoped for, that they prayed for, that, they
41:16
prayed that God would change them so they could experience that. I have sat
41:20
in groups with small groups of gay men thirty five and up to sixty five
41:28
and watch them weep because they didn't have a they don't have family. They
41:35
couldn't have family. They prayed for that and God didn't answer their prayer.
41:42
And many are convinced that traditional marriage is not an option for them, so
41:45
they commit to living chaste life an old fashioned word. And for many men
41:52
and women who put their faith in Christ, they just decide, Okay,
41:55
I'm just gonna buckle down. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna bear down.
41:59
I'm just gonna be by myself. I'm not going to have family. I'm
42:00
going to be sexually pure. And many, many, many, many do
42:05
that for long seasons of time, and for some it's their whole life.
42:09
But for many that is not sustainable. And so they choose a same sex
42:19
marriage. Not because they're convinced it's biblical. They read the same Bible we
42:23
do. They chose to marry for the same reason many of us did.
42:30
Love companionship and family, and in the end, as was the case for
42:36
all of us. And this is the important thing I want you to hear
42:37
me say. It's their decision. Our decision is to decide how we respond
42:45
to their decision. Our decision as a group of local churches is how are
42:52
we going to respond to their decision? And we decided twenty eight years ago.
43:00
We draw circles. We don't draw lines. We draw big circles.
43:04
If someone desires to follow Jesus, regardless of their starting point, regardless of
43:08
their past, regardless of their current circumstances, our message is come and see
43:14
and come sit with me, and this is not new. This is who
43:19
we are, is who we've always been, and this is why I love
43:21
our church. And this is why I'm so extraordinarily proud of you. We
43:24
aren't condoning sin, we are restoring relationships, and we are literally saving lives.
43:36
I want to end with an email. I got a couple dozen of
43:37
these last couple of weeks as people saw the criticism pouring in about the conference.
43:42
I'll read this and we'll be done. Andy, my husband Craig,
43:46
and I have been attending North Point Community Church and then Brown's Bridge Church since
43:50
our two sons were in middle school and high school. They are now thirty
43:53
five and thirty seven years old. Collectively. We have served in almost every
43:58
area of ministry, but never could we have known how much parent connect would
44:00
mean to us. February ninth, twenty twenty, our youngest son, Michael,
44:06
came by for breakfast to watch you online with us. When the service
44:08
was over, he said he had something he needed to share with us.
44:12
Words cannot express the sadness we felt when he explained that for the last twenty
44:19
years he had privately suffered knowing he was gay alone, he carried this attraction
44:27
for the same sex, and no matter how much he prayed or dated women,
44:30
nothing changed. He expressed it with his tearful nights, praying that God
44:37
would change him. But God did not. And even in this next sentence,
44:45
I want you to listen, especially those of you who are a little
44:50
bit like this on the inside. Right now, would you just listen to
44:52
this next statement. Even though he had not acted on his same sex attraction,
45:00
still carried shame and even considered suicide. Now, look, all of
45:07
us have felt shame about things we've done, all of us have felt shame
45:10
about things we haven't done. But I bet you've never carried shame about who
45:17
you are. That's the difference. And when people say to me, well,
45:22
Andy, it's just like I just stop him, I say, no,
45:25
this is not like anything. This is and is it is a category
45:30
all unto itself. She goes on. She says, of course, we
45:35
had previously taught our sons that it's a sin, just as it had been
45:37
taught to us. We cried with him, we held him, we listened.
45:40
If there's ever been a precious soul who wanted to please God and be
45:44
kind to others, it's Michael. We were fearful for his future, and
45:46
we felt we could tell no one. There's the isolation. As I was
45:51
looking for a Bible study our small group on the North Point website, I
45:53
ran into parent Connect, not knowing exactly what it was, and I was
45:58
too embarrassed to call to Al and Debbie Causey, to Greg and Lynn and
46:04
all the parent Connect team, I want to thank you for being courageous and
46:07
kind enough to love like Christ. We didn't know what to think or where
46:12
to turn. We were heartbroken. Michael did not want to cause us pain,
46:15
but we wanted to know who he really was and how he felt.
46:17
We didn't know. We didn't want to cause him more pain than he had
46:21
already experience. We needed help, and we will be forever grateful that God
46:24
led us to parent Connect and embracing the journey. I'm a retired nick Ugh
46:30
nurse and I've taken care of several babies that it was impossible to tell if
46:35
they were male or female, a condition called ambiguous genitalia. This was not
46:40
the case for Michael, but has definitely made me have greater understanding and love
46:44
for individuals who experienced gender dysphoria and who are struggling with their identity. It
46:49
is impossible to know how painful some of these experiences must be and is,
46:52
she says in her letter, Oh Father, help us to love well.
46:57
We have grown in the last three and a half years in ways I could
46:59
never have been dissipated thanks to all of you and others like Justin Lee Andy.
47:05
We know that you and others mentioned are facing heavy criticism for hosting the
47:07
Unconditional Conference. We just wanted you to know how much you've helped us.
47:10
We thank God for our church, and we thank Michael for helping us learn
47:14
to live a better version of ourselves, to be more loving, less judgmental,
47:17
and kinder people with a grateful heart. Christine, on one occasion,
47:31
Jesus said this, He said, come to me, all you who are
47:39
we're imburdened, and I'll give you rest. You will find rest for your
47:46
soul. All that's a big circle. That's the invitation of our Savior.
47:58
That's the invitation of our church. That's the invitation of your church, and
48:04
perhaps one day it'll be the invitation of every church. Heavenly Father, thank
48:14
you for this incredible, incredible group of people who love and we're all learning
48:20
to love more like you. And we do not want to get it wrong,
48:23
and we do not want to mislead anybody. But we want to be
48:28
grace and truth maximized, not just grace, not just truth, not the
48:34
balance of grace and truth, full on all grace, all truth, all
48:38
the time. And Father, I confess that our approaches they fall short of
48:45
perfection. But I pray that you give us the courage, give us the
48:49
courage to stay in the place we need to be as a group of local
48:52
churches. And I pray that you would do extraordinary things through us, and
48:55
maybe maybe maybe use us to move this conversation forward in our country, certainly
49:02
in our communities, and maybe in the world. And we pray all of
49:06
this in the matchless name of Jesus Amen.