Latest / AST SpaceMobile Podcast / Vodafone Head of R&D talks about AST SpaceMobile and SatCo

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Vodafone Head of R&D talks about AST SpaceMobile and SatCo · AST SpaceMobile Podcast

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  This is the AST Space Mobile podcast.
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  Just basically turn your phone be seamless, regardless of where
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  you are. We don't want the user even to
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  know that it's connected by satellite.
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  Listen, the opportunity that we have is very, very, very large.
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  We can now speak to Luke Ibbotson, who's the Head of
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  Group R&D at Vodafone Group. Welcome.
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  Good to see you, Luke. Thank you very much for joining
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  us. It's.
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  My pleasure. Thank you.
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  You can hear me OK. We can.
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  You're not on the moon. It's, it's, it's, it's all good.
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  I am in Yorkshire Dales so you can never stop.
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  Yeah, we're not a 20 minute delay.
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  I'm, I'm very pleased to, to hear, let's start at the very
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  beginning of this because I said, you know, you're, you're
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  in your venture with AST space mobile creating Sacco.
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  That's a very different path from a lot of operators that
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  have just chosen to do deals with satellite companies.
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  So, you know, why did you go down that route?
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  I mean we, we are primarily customer LED.
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  So you will see us forming deals with all sorts of satellite
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  companies for different types of applications.
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  And you probably saw the announcement yesterday from
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  Porticom where we're partnering with Starling to provide a call
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  services for enterprises and to sell sites and remote areas.
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  But for the device to device piece, we felt we needed
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  something that could deliver a service that genuinely
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  complemented our terrestrial network and gave us the the
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  ability to provide proper full broadband to customers handsets
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  wherever they are. So we didn't want something from
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  the beginning that would just allow us to provide an emergency
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  message when somebody stuck up a hillside.
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  We wanted something that would be able to augment our
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  terrestrial network assets in a very seamless way, fill in all
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  the blanks and give our customers the security of having
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  that full fat feeling of broadband in their hands
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  wherever they are. Having spent many years not
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  battling with satellite companies, but looking at
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  different satellite technologies that were aspiring to do this,
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  we always felt the only way that one would be able to do it is if
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  you had a massive beam forming array in space.
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  And of course, up until recently that wasn't anything that we
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  could see happening. When we started to look at the
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  AST design and the architecture and diligently well went through
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  the plans and the link budgets and how the technology would
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  work, we thought, well, actually here for the first time,
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  somebody has an outrageously audacious vision to put giant
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  antenna arrays in space. If they can do that and if it
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  all works, they can close the link budget, we can start to
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  provide that type of service promise to customers.
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  So that was why we started on the journey with AST.
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  It wasn't because we were picking, picking a winner from
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  all of the number of different satellite companies that are out
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  there now, if they weren't out there then we simply saw a great
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  opportunity to use some very, very clever emerging technology
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  in a way that would help our customers to connect back to our
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  network. So that was that was the genesis
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  of it. And this goes back, I mean it's
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  before it was before it was trendy.
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  This goes back to 2018 when we started the partnership with
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  AST. So this isn't something we've
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  just happened upon in the last couple of months.
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  This is a long term strategic partnership where we've been Co
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  developing some of the technology, making sure it can
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  serve our customers in in the best possible way and yeah and,
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  and allow us to to connect people wherever they are.
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  So you're, you're absolutely totally get that.
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  So you'll say this is very much it's, it's a customer, customer
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  need and what you want for the future.
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  We'll talk about your specific plans in just a moment.
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  But just so that we're clear, because you know, and you say
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  you're still looking at other partnerships as well.
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  So you know, a couple of years ago a lot of talk about your,
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  your partnership with with Amazon, Amazon's Quipa that that
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  still goes ahead then does. It absolutely still goes ahead.
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  We're very proud to be working with Amazon Quipa.
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  They've got, I think the potential to be a fantastic
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  technology supplier to us. You've seen that they've started
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  to launch their rockets with a decent degree of cadence and,
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  you know, it's all looking good. So yeah, so we, we, we, we, as I
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  say, we're not in the business of choosing technology winners.
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  We're in the business of developing or choosing the the
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  best match for the requirements and the best match for serving
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  customers. Well, let's, let's focus in on
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  that then, Luke, and look at what you're, you're doing with
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  the, the European satellite constellation.
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  And this is, I mean, you've, you've already sort of alluded
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  to this, you're not putting together something that's just
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  emergency text messages, are you?
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  Or you know, so talk us through what you want to do with this
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  service and what what you think the customers will want to do
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  with this. I think customers want the
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  security of being able to do whatever they want to do in
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  their smartphone wherever they are.
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  I think we've seen for a few years people have had the
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  ability to send emergency text messages using various
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  platforms. I mean, we all know the the
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  iPhone can do it via a global star network today if you stand
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  in the right place and point your phone in the right
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  direction. We wanted something that was
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  truly seamless. We wanted something that was a
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  an extension of of our network in all, in all respects.
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  So not just giving us the ability to seamlessly blend
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  together terrestrial and going to say with a nod to tertiary
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  extraterrestrial coverage, but we wanted, we wanted to be able
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  to also deliver the type of resilience and security that
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  comes as part and parcel of operating a fully regulated
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  telecommunication network. And the ASD architecture is
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  quite different to a lot of the other systems out there.
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  Again, not because we were comparing and contrasting, but
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  because we did from the beginning want something that
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  was effectively a base station in the sky.
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  We wanted something that was able to connect back straight
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  into our core network, that was able to give us the full control
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  over how the billing is done, how the the roaming works, how
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  the connection between South side works, how it hands over
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  how we're able to to use terrestrial and non terrestrial
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  assets in a way that remains invisible to customers, but
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  works on completely normal handsets available today.
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  So that was that was quite a brief we set ourselves and it's
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  one we've been looking at for a while.
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  But having seen what we can do with with this new technology
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  being developed by AST, we thought we could we could give
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  this a go. So you, you said you, you maybe
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  look, let's just focus on the customer for a minute because
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  you said you wanted to create a, a sort of a seamless experience
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  for customers. Does does that mean that it is
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  you'll be offering a service that will will just blend or is
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  this being sold into customers as an extra on top service in
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  the future? And if so, you must be fairly
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  confident that customers are going to pay for this.
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  So remember, I'm an R&D person. I'm not going to speak to our
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  emerging customer proposition. I know, but but Luke, you, you,
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  you don't, you don't get the R&D brief unless, unless there's a
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  market for something. We.
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  We will of course, we will be looking to to make sure that
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  people recognise the value of this, that they're, that they,
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  they choose to access the service in, in at the right
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  place at the right time. We will make it super easy for
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  people to make that that decision for sure.
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  This will never and no space system will be assisted will be
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  something that you could sell in the same ways with cell
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  terrestrial networks in terms of giving away gigabytes per month
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  for for very little. Personally, I would say too far
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  too cheaply given that the magic we provide.
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  But this will always be something which is inherently
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  spectrum constrained. Obviously the cell sites in this
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  case are hundreds of miles above your head, so we need to be very
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  careful in how we use that precious resource.
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  The best possible outcome for for the people choosing to take.
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  Service, so talking about the the way that it's used then,
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  because from what we understand this is government as well as
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  consumer and it's being billed very much as a European as a
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  sovereign European consolation service.
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  So does that mean is this with a view to prioritising a service
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  within it if it's, if it's available to government as well?
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  So for example in in disaster areas or areas where you can you
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  can prioritise what, what who can use the network.
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  Yeah, I mean, all of those things are possible.
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  Maybe just stepping back a little bit as well.
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  The the, the sovereignty question is quite interesting.
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  And I, I didn't realise just how much interest there would be
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  once we put out the press release in the concepts of, of
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  sovereignty. I think everybody does want to,
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  to know who's controlling the satellites.
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  They want to know who can switch them off.
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  If you're a European government stakeholder, you want to have
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  the, the assurance to know who's got their, their hand on the
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  controls. So that was the reason we felt
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  it was important to establish the European constellation so
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  that we're able to provide that that level of certainty to to
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  customers of the service. So, but you're, but coming back
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  to your first question, yes, there there is the capability
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  just to there is with terrestrial networks to
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  prioritize certain groups of users in, in, in times of
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  emergency. We can do that on terrestrial
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  networks. And because AST is simply an
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  extension of our terrestrial network, all of the tools and
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  capabilities that we normally have within our our own core and
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  the way that we allocate resources remain available to us
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  through AST. It's worth just quickly
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  reflecting on how, on how the AST system works.
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  It's, it's effectively a remote Radiohead in, in low Earth
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  orbit. So all of the baseband
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  equipment, the, the stuff that normally sits at, in a box at
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  the bottom of the cell tower inside the basement of the
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  building and it's connected to the antennas on the roof or the
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  top of the tower. All of that gear on the on the
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  ground remains exactly the same. All we're doing is putting the
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  remote Radiohead into orbit and connecting it down to that that
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  same baseband infrastructure that we're now collated into the
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  into the ground station. Architecturally though, it
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  behaves the same way as regular cell site.
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  That's quite important because it means that the capabilities
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  that you you alluded to a moment ago in terms of being able to
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  offer certain types of service to certain users, all of that
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  system inherits the the capabilities and the
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  functionality of the of the bigger network.
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  So we found that very, very appealing.
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  You're, you're absolutely right. There was a lot of buzz when you
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  put the press release out. And yes, there was a lot of buzz
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  around the word sovereign. And the other thing that a lot
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  of people honed in on was this phrase having a command switch
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  as well. So you know, this, this sounds
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  like you're baked into this is, is a switch that just turns
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  everything off. So you know why?
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  How? Who has it?
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  It's actually the opposite. We want to make sure that we've
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  got control of the command switches, however you want to
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  describe it and you can think of different ways of describing
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  that that capability. We want to be able to provide
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  customers with the service. And this includes the course of
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  the mobile network operators, not just Vodafone.
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  The whole concept of Sacco is that we, we make this available
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  to multiple network operators across the European landmass,
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  but we can't have a service that is controlled by some entity
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  outside of Europe. So that the reason for the
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  making sure that we retained control of who could access the
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  satellites as they pass over over our over our little world
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  in Europe, it remains under the control of Sacco.
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  Remember inherently low Earth over satellites, they're not
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  like geostation group ones. They do orbit the planet, just
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  to say the obvious. They are global by nature.
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  The ability to control the service when it's passing over a
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  given territory, we've felt is is something very important and
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  something we wanted to clarify. Yeah.
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  And, and actually I think it as your press release goes on, it
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  does you know, you, you talk a lot about the interest that you
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  have had from from different countries in, in this
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  highlighting those capabilities. A lot of MO use, yeah.
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  Yeah, yes. OK.
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  Quick word on time scales, number of satellites, all, all
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  of that stuff And when, when do you actually hope to have this
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  in the market? We, we hope we will have it in
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  the market next year. As we've said before, time
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  scales are tricky. This is this stuff is hard,
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  space is hard. You only need to look at what's
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  happening with with New Glen and with with Starship.
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  Some of the heavy lift launches, these are huge satellites that
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  we're putting up. We need heavy lift launches to
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  get them into orbit. We've got them ready.
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  We've got a very good manufacturing cadence.
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  If you dialed into the AST earnings call early this week,
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  whenever it was, I think it was early this week, time's going by
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  in a blur at the moment. You will have heard them
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  announcing a number of launches in between now and the end of
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  Q1. So this is, this is great.
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  So everything's looking good, but it is difficult as as
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  anybody who's who's attempted to do this will tell you, I think
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  AST has made unprecedented progress and we remain very
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  confident that in their ability to deliver what we're what we're
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  looking for and what we need. And the last, the last number I
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  saw was something like 60 satellites.
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  Is that is that still the case? We will be deploying more than
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  60 satellites. We need 60 satellites to provide
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  a decent service, but we're going to be building out this
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  constellation to provide more capability to operate in
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  different frequency bands and make the whole service richer.
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  So this is just the beginning. OK, so just just the beginning,
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  take me forward, let's say three years.
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  OK, so end, end of 2028, what what, what do you, what would
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  you like to be talking to us about?
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  What, what would be on the table?
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  What would we be saying? I think we will all be using
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  some of this technology every day and you might have chosen to
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  become a subscriber to to the service and you won't even
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  notice who you are because you'll just notice that you have
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  a fantastic mobile signal where wherever you go.
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  So that's what we're trying to deliver.
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  I think we are making fantastic progress on this.
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  It is, it is difficult. Everything in space is
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  difficult. Doesn't matter how many billions
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  you throw at it. You've also got to be very, very
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  clever in the way that you approach the engineering.
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  You've got to know what what you're building and be confident
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  that the design is right. We have that confidence, but we
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  need to get the the spaceships into orbit basically.
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  And they are spacecraft. I mean, just the ACT.
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  I'm always amazed. We talk about the
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  telecommunications pay a lot because that's my world is
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  disconnecting phones. But when you look at what's
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  actually happening and the way that those massive objects are
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  being piloted through a through low Earth orbit, remain in
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  exactly the same position relative to the sun
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  perpendicular to the Earth and flying in the right, in the
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  right bit of space. I think it's it's remarkable.
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  So how softened the entire space industry for this this stuff?
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  To be honest, I'm very glad that we're part of it.
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  We're going to be watching with interest.
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  Luke Ibbotson, thank you so much for joining us.
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  Thank you. You're very welcome.
• 15:57
  Thank you. Thanks for listening to the AST
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  Space Mobile podcast. If you enjoyed this episode and
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  you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with
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  others, post about it on social media, or leave a rating and
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  review. To catch all the latest news
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  about AST Space Mobile, make sure to subscribe.
• 16:16
  Thanks again and I'll see you next time.
• 16:22
  We're doing something very, very big and acting with this
• 16:24
  technology we can really affect billion lives.
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  AFT Space globally is the only company that has proven
• 16:31
  technology to deliver several of mobile connectivity directly
• 16:35
  from space to the everyday smartphone.
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  People will just basically turn their phone and be seamless.
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  But regardless of where you are, we don't want the user even to
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  know that it's connected by satellite.
• 16:47
  Our role is to bring this into reality.
• 16:50
  All this environment you do the MMO.
• 17:04
  Listen, Waffles.