Latest / When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom / Katherine Knight: Cannibal? Murderer? Really Bad Girlfriend? YES.

Transcript

Katherine Knight: Cannibal? Murderer? Really Bad Girlfriend? YES. · When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom

• 0:21
  Hey everybody in Hero Killer country.
• 0:22
  My name is Brittany Ransom and. My name is Brian Joyner and this
• 0:25
  is When Killers Get Caught, a podcast of odes, deep dives into
• 0:28
  the lives and psyches so the killers we love to learn about.
• 0:30
  Each week Brian and I find a true Crime Story that resonated
• 0:32
  with us. Then I discuss one well known or
• 0:35
  lesser known killer and go deep into their childhood lives,
• 0:37
  methodology, and most importantly how they got caught.
• 0:41
  And then we get a little spooky and we'll learn something about
• 0:43
  cryptids or the supernatural. And just before we get in, just
• 0:49
  to let you know, our Patreon is live.
• 0:51
  There are 4 tiers from 5 to $50.00 that offer lots of things
• 0:54
  like being able to listen to us report the podcast, or playing
• 0:58
  games with us on Twitch, or just getting a free 30 minute podcast
• 1:03
  about conspiracies. Yes, it's all fun and games over
• 1:07
  on Patreon. It is fun and games on Patreon.
• 1:10
  You can support us by going to patreon.com/when killers get
• 1:13
  caught and you are always open to check out our merch at
• 1:17
  www.whenkillersgetcaught.com and I am slowly merging it over to
• 1:23
  the Facebook page which is also searching when killers get
• 1:26
  caught and the podcast is now available to listen to on
• 1:30
  Facebook. Look, you getting us everywhere.
• 1:32
  Yeah. So listen, if you prefer to
• 1:34
  listen to on Facebook or look at things on Facebook, absolutely
• 1:38
  they will all be there. That happened this week that I
• 1:42
  was able to guess Facebook's doing some new changes.
• 1:45
  Yeah, that's really awesome. Though next it would be freaking
• 1:49
  Twitter. That'd be great.
• 1:51
  That would be awesome if everything was all integrated.
• 1:53
  But so before I start into this week in true crime about what I
• 1:57
  want to talk about, I want everyone listening to just hear
• 2:01
  me out. Don't get mad when I say the
• 2:04
  name of this because I want to talk about missing White Women's
• 2:08
  Syndrome. That's the specifically in the
• 2:11
  news right now because of the Gabby Petitto case.
• 2:16
  And what missing white women's syndrome is, is the American
• 2:21
  media's propensity to specifically cover with just
• 2:28
  like a ferocious ferocity. Like the mainstream media in
• 2:31
  this country absolutely loves to talk about missing white women,
• 2:37
  and it's to the detriment of missing women of color.
• 2:42
  There are a disproportionate number of teenage black girls
• 2:46
  who are being kidnapped across this country, and they are
• 2:48
  virtually never reported. There are a disproportionate
• 2:51
  number of indigenous women across North America that have
• 2:55
  not been reported and it's been such a big deal in Canada that
• 2:58
  they are now launching like investigations into the coverage
• 3:02
  and the police, whether they have been doing the right thing.
• 3:06
  There is an entire highway in Canada that they refer to as the
• 3:10
  Highway of Tears because there have been so many indigenous
• 3:13
  women who have gone missing in that in this area and it crosses
• 3:17
  roughly 75% of the the continent or sorry, that country on our
• 3:22
  continent. And this is really important
• 3:25
  because, like I said, so many of the people.
• 3:30
  Who need to be reported are not being reported just this week
• 3:37
  alone. It wasn't until Jelani day at
• 3:42
  his mom spoke on TV about the fact that she had been trying to
• 3:47
  get coverage of him missing put on mainstream news since he went
• 3:52
  missing on August 24th. This week he was he was found
• 3:59
  technically September 4th or September 9th.
• 4:03
  Yes, and a river in Illinois. But they didn't like.
• 4:09
  I guess there was no fire behind the Emmy until everyone publicly
• 4:15
  was like where is he? You found a body?
• 4:18
  Do the freaking cord or. Like Oh yeah, we found a body,
• 4:22
  blah blah blah. That's right.
• 4:23
  And so of course once they do it, like days after this is
• 4:27
  everywhere on Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, all of a sudden we have
• 4:32
  a positive ID and it's been 3 almost three weeks since they
• 4:37
  found the body. I mean their situations.
• 4:41
  Like Lakia Edelston, Eggleston. She was 8 months pregnant when
• 4:48
  she disappeared four years ago in Baltimore.
• 4:54
  There's a young girl named Keisha Unique Jacobs.
• 4:58
  She's been missing since 2016. She'd be 26 years old.
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  Now. There are a host of families who
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  are asking just for similar coverage of the people who they
• 5:11
  love. And I have been getting messages
• 5:14
  in my inbox on TikTok for an A very long time with people
• 5:19
  asking me to cover missing cases.
• 5:21
  And so I asked on Facebook, I asked on YouTube, and I asked on
• 5:25
  TikTok do you want me to cover these cases?
• 5:28
  And I got to be really honest with you.
• 5:29
  I don't know if people are prepared for this, but I have
• 5:32
  absolutely no intention right now of covering whatever the new
• 5:36
  hot story about the missing white women is, because I feel
• 5:40
  like there's already enough attention.
• 5:42
  You got your CNN and every other major news source doing this, so
• 5:46
  I am going to start covering missing people every Monday.
• 5:49
  I'm going to try and do more than my normal videos so that I
• 5:53
  can get a bunch of them up because literally there are at
• 5:56
  least 50 different people in my inbox at any given time
• 5:59
  requesting can you talk about my friend, Can you talk about my
• 6:03
  cousin? Can you talk about my sister
• 6:05
  like there's so many? And I I got to tell you, I'm
• 6:08
  going to say that I'm going to start specifically discussing
• 6:12
  women of color and indigenous women first, because I feel like
• 6:16
  there is a gap in the reporting. Absolutely.
• 6:20
  And this is not to say that anybody's missing relative is
• 6:25
  less important. But until there is fair
• 6:28
  coverage, those of us who are are talking about things in the
• 6:32
  media on alternate forms of media have to cover that gap.
• 6:39
  So I hope I didn't make anybody too mad.
• 6:40
  People get real angry when you start saying the words white.
• 6:44
  And women on the Internet. But you know, that's.
• 6:47
  What we're here for anyway, like you, you and me, that's what we
• 6:50
  do this podcast for. We we cover that gap of people.
• 6:53
  It really is true. I have been doing a seminar this
• 6:56
  past week on marketing and one of the people in my seminar hit
• 7:01
  me up. He's from the 30 Minute podcast.
• 7:04
  He actually wanted to know if we wanted to be on his podcast and
• 7:06
  talk to him. So maybe we might be on another
• 7:10
  person's podcast. But he specifically said that he
• 7:12
  was watching a master class and they were discussing the lack of
• 7:17
  people of color who specifically discussed true crime.
• 7:21
  And I wasn't aware when we made this podcast that there was a
• 7:25
  deficit in this. We've gotten a couple emails
• 7:28
  that were like, yay, you guys are woke.
• 7:30
  We really appreciate it. But like I said to you the other
• 7:33
  night when we I called you to tell you about that, I was like,
• 7:35
  I don't know how to be any other way like.
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  We're black people. We're going to talk about black
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  people stuff. That's what happens.
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  Get 2 black people in the room over the microphones.
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  Come on now, is what? Happens is what we're going to
• 7:45
  do. So I just, I feel like it's some
• 7:49
  of that people need to be aware of and think about that the
• 7:53
  media that we are consuming is being curated by certain people
• 7:58
  and those certain people care the most apparently about young
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  white women between like the age of like 16 and like 25.
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  They seem to be the ones that get the most attention.
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  And that's unfortunate because I'm sure there's an elderly
• 8:12
  white woman who's gone missing who could probably use the the
• 8:16
  media attention, you know, but we don't, we don't care about
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  elderly people in this country. But that's a whole nother
• 8:21
  conversation. Not going there today, but I'm
• 8:25
  going to turn it over to you, Brian.
• 8:28
  What is your story this week? My God, well, thank you for all
• 8:31
  the information. So Speaking of white people, is
• 8:37
  this another white? Is this a missing white person?
• 8:39
  No, no, no, no, no Okay. So this is headlined as
• 8:42
  teenagers are charged with planning to attack a PA school.
• 8:47
  Was this the two boys who look like they're about 10 years old?
• 8:50
  No, no, OK cuz they were that was were mess.
• 8:52
  So this is a four teenagers. They're trying, they they want
• 8:56
  to, I guess attack a school, their high school.
• 9:00
  OK And remembrance of the Columbine, oh Jesus.
• 9:04
  Which will be turning 25 years old when they were playing the
• 9:08
  attack. That's ridiculous.
• 9:09
  Oh my God. So they planned this attack for
• 9:11
  2024. Was this happening in
• 9:13
  Pennsylvania? Scranton, PA Oh Gee, why is it
• 9:15
  always Scran? What is going on in?
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  No fucking idea. Scraton's boring sometimes.
• 9:22
  Maybe that's it. The only thing they got there is
• 9:24
  the office. And you know, it's just.
• 9:25
  And it wasn't even filmed there, though I know they literally
• 9:29
  filmed one like. We have the Electric City, OK?
• 9:33
  They have the Electric City sign and everything, cuz when I did a
• 9:36
  story, I did a story about this woman who was taking pictures
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  with dead bodies. She was like a mortician and it
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  was from that region and people were upset.
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  She just thought it was cool. So she was taking pictures of
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  families without their permission.
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  But so these kids. So it was it's four kids.
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  Two of them were 15 year old. They're being charged as adults.
• 10:01
  The other two were being charged with just juvenile charges.
• 10:07
  But yeah, it's they were trying to attack Dunmar, Dunmore High
• 10:11
  School and Scran. I'm guessing that must be their
• 10:13
  school. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 10:16
  This is. And it says that one of the
• 10:20
  girl's mothers said that the total police that her daughter
• 10:23
  was obsessed with Columbine and like as a parent, see, I can't
• 10:32
  say anything about that because I was like 12 years old reading
• 10:36
  about serial killers. Okay.
• 10:39
  Yeah, but what kind of obsession are we talking about?
• 10:41
  Like are you, are you trying to like, I just want to know
• 10:44
  everything about them. Yeah, that's the that's when
• 10:47
  this started this that is now what we have started when I was
• 10:51
  like 1213 years. Yeah, no, I mean same thing with
• 10:53
  me and paranormal. But like I also was into the
• 10:56
  paranormal too. I started reading ghost stuff.
• 10:58
  But like, come on, like if that's the only thing you're
• 11:01
  obsessed with Columbine and or shooting and stuff like that.
• 11:04
  I guess the question is like how do you know that your kid is
• 11:08
  just like casually interested in something cuz you know, like
• 11:12
  little kids get into like dinosaurs, they know everything
• 11:14
  about every dinosaur, right? How do you know that your kids
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  like into murder like that? Or your kid is thinking about
• 11:21
  doing a murder like I don't know what the.
• 11:24
  They start mentioning, they start mentioning it a lot.
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  I mean like, OK, for example, how did they know that this was
• 11:32
  happening? What did they find?
• 11:35
  So what they found was, hold on, I don't know how they found.
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  I think they found things they were making so they could do
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  this. Oh no.
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  So I I read they found a Molotov cocktail.
• 11:50
  They they found a bonus for a bomb.
• 11:53
  Oh, they were trying to do it bigger than Columbine because
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  Columbine did not have explosives.
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  Yeah, they they had plans written down for making bombs
• 12:00
  and stuff like that. See.
• 12:02
  And then I'm gonna also tell you that when I was 14, I read the
• 12:04
  Anarchist Cookbook. Yeah, because I was like, why
• 12:07
  not? And it was in my high school, my
• 12:09
  my librarian didn't believe in banning books.
• 12:13
  She didn't believe that anything was bad to know.
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  But, like, now I feel like I don't know how I feel about
• 12:20
  that. Yes, I'm.
• 12:21
  Guessing they they found this stuff in this one in one of the
• 12:24
  girls rooms, or in in our home or whatever.
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  Thank goodness for a snooping Mama.
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  I know, right? Hey.
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  But goodness gracious, they said.
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  They didn't believe there's like an immediate threat right now.
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  Since when's the anniversary this?
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  Is in 2024, but Jesus, they were planning.
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  Yeah, 2024, That's when they planned the attack.
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  So Lord, yeah, okay, I can understand why the cops were
• 12:50
  like, well, they're just really stockpiling stuff for three
• 12:54
  years from now. Wait a second.
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  Two of them wouldn't have even been in high school anymore.
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  They still don't. They still teach this kind of
• 13:01
  stuff in school, or they learn about this kind of stuff in?
• 13:03
  No, I just mean that if two of them were sophomores 3 years
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  from now, they would be out of high school, still about to do
• 13:13
  this attack, and the other two would have been seniors.
• 13:16
  Or maybe they had planned to. Get held back a year seems like
• 13:20
  a weird plan. I know, I know.
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  Because everybody. I don't know why.
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  Why would you? This is weird.
• 13:29
  This is weird and stupid. I guess they had kind of mad
• 13:32
  about. It Yeah, I guess they had a list
• 13:34
  of targets that they they wanted people that they wanted to
• 13:37
  target. People aren't even there
• 13:38
  anymore. What if the teacher you hate
• 13:39
  gets transferred? One of them was the principal.
• 13:42
  Yeah, what if the principal decides to move to Wisconsin Now
• 13:47
  you can't kill him, your revenge plot foiled.
• 13:49
  I just. Like.
• 13:52
  Like, I read it in a like I read the headline.
• 13:54
  I was like, oh, no, it's really impulsive.
• 13:57
  So this is very intriguing. Yeah, Because I would understand
• 14:01
  if they were like, we're going to kill Principal Skinner next
• 14:03
  week. It's the only one I can think of
• 14:06
  off the top of my head. Building.
• 14:08
  But to say we're going to kill Principal Skinner 4 years from
• 14:13
  now. All right, get ready.
• 14:15
  Yeah, get ready. You don't even to go see him in
• 14:17
  the hall. You don't even know, son.
• 14:19
  My God, you don't know. We got prepared for you.
• 14:22
  Just wait. Jesus, you better hope it's not
• 14:25
  a leap year. I'm done, Okay.
• 14:31
  That's what I got. Kids being kids.
• 14:34
  And sometimes kids are scary and think of scary things.
• 14:38
  Kids are absolutely scary. But.
• 14:54
  Goodness gracious. This week I'm bringing it back
• 14:56
  to Australia. We are discussing the first
• 14:59
  woman to get a life sentence without parole.
• 15:02
  She only killed one person, her partner John Charles Thomas
• 15:06
  Price. But what she did was so barbaric
• 15:08
  and disgusting that the government felt compelled to put
• 15:12
  her in prison for life when the average time a murderer spends
• 15:16
  is about 25 years in Australia. You and I were both alive when
• 15:21
  this happened. We were in middle school, and
• 15:24
  you may recall that it was global news that Catherine
• 15:27
  Knight scanned her boyfriend and tried to serve him as a dish to
• 15:32
  his children. Today will probably frustrate
• 15:36
  you, but not for the normal reasons.
• 15:39
  Because by the end of this, what I think I'm going to tell you is
• 15:43
  that misogyny and the confining nature of masculinity are why
• 15:48
  she was able to get away with abusing every man she ever
• 15:53
  dated. And had these men had felt the
• 16:03
  ability to report her, perhaps somebody's life could have been
• 16:10
  saved. Okay, I feel frustrated already.
• 16:14
  Let's go. And so let's talk about who she
• 16:17
  was before she became the cannibal killer of Aberdeen.
• 16:21
  So Catherine Mary Knight was born October 24th, 1955, to
• 16:24
  parents who'd gotten themselves into a pretty big scandal.
• 16:27
  Her mother, Barbara, was married to a man named Jack Ruffin in
• 16:31
  Hunters Valley in Aberdeen. It's spelled ROUGAN, and I want
• 16:37
  to say Rogan so bad, but it's wrong.
• 16:41
  It was in Hunters Valley in Aberdeen, Australia.
• 16:43
  She was having an affair with a man named Ken Knight, and both
• 16:46
  Ken and Jack worked for the same slaughterhouse.
• 16:50
  Oh, isn't that lovely? In fact, Ten was a pretty good
• 16:55
  guy, except for the whole stealing your girl situation
• 16:58
  that went down. Boyfriend #2.
• 17:05
  They all hung out together. Jack and Barbara, along with all
• 17:10
  the other people. Slaughterhouses in the 1950s in
• 17:12
  this area were pretty common. It was major unskilled.
• 17:16
  Well I would say unskilled labor jobs, but non education based
• 17:19
  jobs. What do you call those?
• 17:25
  I don't know. When people aren't trade, there
• 17:28
  you go trade. So what do you mean not
• 17:30
  education based? So you don't go to college to
• 17:32
  get this job? Yeah, but you do still need to
• 17:34
  learn like how to do. Okay, you go to trade school,
• 17:36
  right? So right.
• 17:36
  So these are trade based jobs for mining and pretty much
• 17:39
  manufacturing and working in slaughterhouses.
• 17:42
  Pretty common back then, but they met in the bar and Ken
• 17:47
  flirted with her in front of her very drunk husband, but he was
• 17:50
  too drunk to realize now. Barbara and Jack were high
• 17:54
  school sweethearts and they had four kids, two teenage boys and
• 17:57
  two younger children, and she felt trapped in marriage that
• 18:00
  she entered way too early. She never even considered
• 18:03
  divorce because it was unheard of back then.
• 18:05
  But an affair? No problem.
• 18:09
  People were always having affairs in Aberdeen and Ken was
• 18:12
  there and he liked her. So one night when they were all
• 18:14
  drinking, Jack got taken back home because he was wasted.
• 18:18
  So Barbara went home with Ken instead, and then they ignored
• 18:20
  each other in public. Just playing it off.
• 18:23
  Yep. Made sure that they never
• 18:25
  interacted again in public. But one day she was home and
• 18:30
  Jack saw a bruise on her thigh that he thought look like a
• 18:32
  handprint. And he beat the ever loving crap
• 18:35
  out of Barbara and threw her out of the house and all of her
• 18:37
  stuff with her. You didn't ask her where it came
• 18:40
  from. You just assumed within the
• 18:43
  within a day, the entire town knew.
• 18:45
  Now, mind you, the town had about 1500 citizens.
• 18:48
  And so she moved into Jack's very tiny apartment that he got
• 18:52
  from the job. It was it was bad.
• 18:56
  Bad enough that like her teen boys would spit at her in the
• 18:59
  street if they saw her. They sided with their dad
• 19:02
  wholeheartedly. The two youngest kids were sent
• 19:05
  to go live with an aunt in Sydney, roughly 200 miles away.
• 19:08
  And so Ken and Barbara left, and they went to a city called
• 19:13
  Marine. He got a job at a slaughterhouse
• 19:17
  there. Barbara got her divorce, and she
• 19:19
  also lost her friends and her family.
• 19:21
  And her kids, I mean. That's what happens when you
• 19:23
  cheat. One week after the divorce was
• 19:26
  approved, she got married to Ken.
• 19:29
  She had two boys within the same year, which means those
• 19:32
  back-to-back pregnancy. Those back-to-back.
• 19:34
  Oh goodness. And she pretty much walked from
• 19:38
  a man who didn't really love her into the arms of a man who
• 19:41
  didn't really love her, but was also a hardcore alcoholic.
• 19:46
  So you downgraded. She downgraded.
• 19:48
  Barbara was aware that cheating again meant that she'd lose her
• 19:51
  children, so she was just gonna try and stick it out for Ken.
• 19:55
  But Ken was kind of awful to her.
• 19:57
  Specifically, he was very demanding sexually.
• 20:01
  And if she would deny him, he'd attempt to beat her into
• 20:03
  submission. And when that stopped working,
• 20:05
  he would pretty much chase her around the house and rape her,
• 20:09
  sometimes 10 times a day. Oh.
• 20:12
  My God, so when Barbara found out that she was pregnant and it
• 20:17
  was twin girls, she was so happy.
• 20:21
  Now she had like some allies in the house.
• 20:28
  So Catherine and her sister Joy were born in Tannerfield, NSW.
• 20:34
  Joy was a tomboy who very quickly hung out with the boys
• 20:37
  in the family. So Catherine ended up being her
• 20:40
  mother's only friend. She was a pretty normal kid in
• 20:43
  the midst of a toxic family. Cam was very strict, hyper
• 20:47
  conservative. The kids were frequently whipped
• 20:49
  for any bad behavior. But Catherine learned very
• 20:52
  quickly, and she was never whooped for the same thing
• 20:54
  twice. She actually learned very early
• 20:57
  how to deal with her dad's intensity, and she began to
• 21:01
  idolize him almost. She treated him like a God,
• 21:04
  which hurt Barbara's feelings because she was like, Dang it,
• 21:08
  we were supposed to be besties and now you're on his side.
• 21:12
  Kids always flock to the dead for some reason.
• 21:13
  I don't know why. Well then Jack died in 1959.
• 21:18
  Catherine was four years old, so ex-husband dies and the two
• 21:24
  older boys move in with Barbara and Ken.
• 21:29
  They very quickly adapt to Ken's intensity and the loathing of
• 21:33
  their mother. They already viewed her as a
• 21:35
  whore, and they also viewed all women in this way.
• 21:41
  They pushed their luck a little bit too many times in town
• 21:44
  though, and they got blacklisted from pretty much every town
• 21:47
  event for being creeps. They saw Joy as one of the boys
• 21:51
  which left Catherine to be sexually groomed by her brothers
• 21:56
  from roughly the age of 4 to 14. Catherine thought that this was
• 22:00
  just the way men are because her mother had been telling her
• 22:04
  stories about being raped by her father since she could remember.
• 22:08
  Like at one point, Catherine asked her mother.
• 22:10
  What do you say if you don't want to do those things?
• 22:12
  Say fucking no, well, her mom responded.
• 22:14
  Just let them do what they want with you.
• 22:16
  It's easier that way. You say no.
• 22:18
  Do you kick them in the balls? Did they try to do anything
• 22:20
  else? There you go.
• 22:21
  Listen to Brian. Yes, before Catherine was even a
• 22:24
  teenager herself. All four of her brothers were
• 22:28
  molesting her. She started trying to find ways
• 22:31
  to not be in the house, and she had an uncle named OO was a
• 22:36
  famous horseman who had a farm where he took care of his
• 22:38
  rescues and champion horses. Catherine loved it there.
• 22:41
  She loved learning from him. She would rescue any injured
• 22:44
  animal she could find and bring it home.
• 22:46
  This was the one thing that she was willing to fight her father
• 22:49
  on. She didn't care that she made
• 22:51
  him mad. She was going to save this bird
• 22:54
  she found on the side of the road.
• 22:56
  If she found a bigger injured animal, she took it to Oscar and
• 22:58
  he would take it to a vet or she would bring him to where it was.
• 23:03
  Unfortunately, Oscar had his own demons and he took his life when
• 23:06
  Catherine was 14 years. Old It was just a bit too much
• 23:10
  for Catherine to take and she was grieving really hard.
• 23:13
  It just sounds like like the only guy that was yeah, so far
• 23:17
  the only one who was nice to her is Uncle Oscar.
• 23:19
  Yeah. Decent guy in her life.
• 23:21
  Great. OK, well right after he dies,
• 23:24
  one of her brothers comes into the room to, you know, like, oh,
• 23:27
  let's hang out so he can like touch her, you know, in that
• 23:30
  subtle way. And she punched him so hard that
• 23:34
  she nearly broke his jaw and said if you ever touch me again,
• 23:37
  I will castrate. Yes.
• 23:40
  Now the older boys heard about this and they were like, let's
• 23:43
  go see what Catherine's doing. And the bathroom was pretty sad,
• 23:47
  but she seemed pretty normal. So they just assumed that like,
• 23:51
  OK, maybe our younger brother like pushed things too far and
• 23:54
  that's why she hit him. They all learned their lesson
• 23:56
  too. One had a black eye for a month,
• 23:59
  the other got stabbed. The boys told their parents it
• 24:02
  was just from fighting at school.
• 24:05
  It's not because we were trying to touch her sister and she
• 24:07
  fucked us up. No, I love it.
• 24:10
  Thank you. I're told because that mean they
• 24:13
  would have to tell on themselves, and they didn't
• 24:15
  doubt Catherine when she said she'd castrate them because
• 24:18
  she'd learned how to do it on Uncle Oscar's farm.
• 24:20
  I love. It so much so.
• 24:23
  On one hand, things are going pretty good for Catherine.
• 24:25
  She just learned that if you beat the show of a man, he won't
• 24:27
  put his hands on you anymore. Yeah, basically.
• 24:30
  However, after Uncle Oscar died, the family realized that the
• 24:34
  town of Maury was only putting up with them because Oscar was a
• 24:37
  celebrity and they didn't really like the very sinful Barbara,
• 24:41
  and they definitely didn't like her sinful teenage boys who kept
• 24:44
  touching girls in town. So when Catherine was 15, they
• 24:47
  moved back to Aberdeen. She entered Muscle Brook High
• 24:53
  School in 1969. She was the New Girl, and within
• 24:57
  weeks, within the first week, kids knew that they shouldn't
• 25:00
  bother her. She was this like sweet, cute
• 25:03
  redhead, pretty tall. She'd smile and laugh with you
• 25:06
  until you made her mad, and then she'd just rip into somebody.
• 25:09
  Just verbally disrespectful. And by chance, if you put your
• 25:13
  hands on her at all, she would get you back.
• 25:17
  Like one day on the school bus a girl tripped her, and the next
• 25:20
  day Catherine cut off her entire ponytail.
• 25:23
  A boy on the bus talked about her breasts, or lack of thereof,
• 25:27
  and when she walked by him, she smashed his face into the bus
• 25:31
  seat in front of him. She was waging war on these bus
• 25:35
  rides. And then at school, the the kids
• 25:37
  would report her and the teachers were like, this doesn't
• 25:40
  make sense, like she's they're saying that they like she beat
• 25:44
  them up, but she's sitting here just looking chill.
• 25:49
  And then essentially in these little meetings, the bullies
• 25:51
  would admit that they had provoked her.
• 25:53
  And even though her retaliations went from zero to 100, the staff
• 25:56
  pretty much was like, well, you don't want your teeth knocked
• 25:58
  out. Leave her alone, I mean.
• 26:01
  Yeah, pretty much everybody in the school took that position.
• 26:04
  Her peers respected her. The younger kids feared her.
• 26:07
  Is a good. Catherine kept a knife in the
• 26:13
  fold of her skirt at her waist. It was so she could grab it if
• 26:17
  she needed it. But it was close enough to her
• 26:19
  body that no male teacher, who were the predominant gender of
• 26:23
  the teachers at the school, would ever touch her to look for
• 26:26
  it. And she stabbed a boy at school
• 26:28
  one day. They couldn't find the knife, so
• 26:32
  they couldn't prove that it had been done.
• 26:34
  So they sent home a little behavior letter.
• 26:37
  This happened a lot. Now Ken would get those letters
• 26:40
  and he would say, did the boy deserve it?
• 26:43
  And Catherine would say, yes. As far as Ken was concerned, his
• 26:48
  daughter was defending her honor from these fresh boys in town,
• 26:52
  which is kind of funny because he never made the connection
• 26:55
  that his own sons got rocked by Catherine as well.
• 27:00
  Just kind of left Catherine and just, you know, get her
• 27:01
  education and not be bothered. Since she was a farm kid, nobody
• 27:05
  really expected her to do well in school, but she did all
• 27:08
  right. She was on the path to having a
• 27:10
  pretty good life. And then her favorite teacher
• 27:13
  gave her a failing grade. She sat through his whole class,
• 27:17
  just Stony silent. And then after the bell rang and
• 27:22
  the other kids left, he walked over to her and he was just
• 27:25
  like, what's wrong? And she threw the paper at him
• 27:28
  and began screaming him. And then she grabbed the knife
• 27:33
  out of her waistband and stabbed her teacher.
• 27:37
  She probably would have killed him if he hadn't punched her.
• 27:41
  And it was the kind of punch that knocks you on your ass.
• 27:46
  And first there was a moment of silence.
• 27:48
  And then Catherine just began wailing.
• 27:51
  Just screaming, sobbing. Now he was a good teacher.
• 27:56
  And he he didn't mean to punch her like a grown man, but he was
• 28:00
  in fight or flight mode. So he goes over to her and he
• 28:06
  leans over her and he's like, Catherine, are you OK?
• 28:08
  And at that moment, other students arrive.
• 28:11
  To a crying girl and there's blood everywhere.
• 28:15
  It's not hers. This is why, well, her teacher
• 28:19
  was suspended. Catherine played the victim.
• 28:21
  The school ended up deciding to do an investigation and it was
• 28:24
  all people who had never met Catherine before.
• 28:27
  And at the end of the investigation they were just
• 28:29
  like you've been letting this kid just run around and rule
• 28:33
  your school. She is the problem here.
• 28:37
  They reinstated her teacher with all his back pay.
• 28:40
  They allowed her to school to go back to school if she agreed.
• 28:44
  No more fighting. Apologize to your teacher and
• 28:46
  you're on probation. If you get into another like
• 28:49
  fight or stab somebody else, you're out.
• 28:52
  She finished the school year avoiding that teacher, and then
• 28:54
  she never went to school after that ever again.
• 28:59
  What the hell was the point then?
• 29:00
  So what she did the next next work day, she decides she wants
• 29:04
  to go to the Aberdeen slaughterhouse with her dad.
• 29:07
  She wanted to be like her dad anyway, so she's just like why
• 29:11
  not do it a couple years sooner? The shift manager saw this
• 29:14
  skinny little 15 year old and immediately went no, this is not
• 29:17
  work for you. She kept her cool knowing that
• 29:21
  her dad was at work and she ended up leaving and going to a
• 29:25
  fabric factory in town and getting a job there.
• 29:28
  She was already really good at making her own clothing and so
• 29:32
  when the job was to cut cloth to size, which you really don't
• 29:37
  want to mess up on because nobody wants 1 pant leg longer
• 29:40
  than the other, her employers are pretty happy with her work.
• 29:44
  She's making enough money. She started, she moved out of
• 29:46
  her parents house. Now she found the women at the
• 29:50
  factory boring, so she would go hang out at the bar with the
• 29:54
  slaughterhouse employees after work.
• 29:56
  And that shift manager who told her no was completely taken
• 30:00
  aback to see Catherine in the bar making jokes and threatening
• 30:05
  to fight grown men in the bar. Now she didn't drink because I
• 30:12
  think she grew up watching her father be very drunk.
• 30:17
  They were also all of the men very kind of freaked out by how
• 30:22
  sexually forward she was. And she kind of made her way
• 30:25
  through the single men at the slaughterhouse like she was so
• 30:30
  sexually forward that in some ways it was off putting from the
• 30:33
  men she was trying to date. Then in 1971 when she was 16,
• 30:39
  she applies for her dream job again and they accept her giving
• 30:43
  her pretty much the crappiest job in the place, cutting up
• 30:45
  meat for dog food. It's generally the scraps from
• 30:49
  all the other major cuts which she was too good for dog food.
• 30:55
  The she was too skilled for it. She had watched her dad and her
• 30:59
  dad is one of the pretty much best people at this place.
• 31:02
  So within weeks her bosses started testing her and giving
• 31:06
  her more complex jobs. Once she like proved that she
• 31:09
  mastered that, they moved her to another station.
• 31:12
  Over only a few months, she met almost everybody in the factory
• 31:16
  and they were all in a rude awakening.
• 31:19
  If you thought you could treat Catherine Knight like she was a
• 31:21
  stupid. Little girl.
• 31:22
  If a man in the line raised his voice at her, she would look at
• 31:25
  him and say, we can always go settle this with our fucking
• 31:28
  knives. She was ready to.
• 31:31
  Hurt that nobody ever took her up on her offer, though she
• 31:37
  eventually did relax enough to stop threatening her coworkers
• 31:40
  and she would have fun with them cutting meat up, making jokes.
• 31:43
  She was moved to deboning in 1972, which is one of the most
• 31:46
  complex jobs in the slaughterhouse, and I had to
• 31:48
  Google why. The boning is the process where
• 31:51
  you skin, remove the excess fat, remove the bone and any
• 31:54
  blemishes to the meat. Your job is to do all of that
• 31:57
  while trying to preserve as much meat as possible.
• 32:00
  This was where her father worked and he had earned A reputation
• 32:03
  of being one of the best people there.
• 32:05
  She was pretty hype. She was like nice.
• 32:08
  I get to work with my dad. Ken was a little salty.
• 32:15
  He had been the top for like decades because he did the job
• 32:19
  before they'd moved to Maury, and now his own kid was kind of
• 32:23
  vying for his spot. He they never spoke about it
• 32:26
  though. It was just it was a silent
• 32:28
  like. His silent rivalry, but
• 32:32
  Catherine kind of brought that out of every guy when she worked
• 32:35
  next to them. They the men couldn't take the
• 32:37
  hit to their ego that a 16 year old was better at them.
• 32:39
  So everyone was working their hardest to try and beat her and
• 32:43
  if she was better than them then they were just trying to like
• 32:47
  not be ashamed and reach her level.
• 32:50
  So at least they were on the same level.
• 32:54
  Because of all this competition. Now in the slaughterhouse, the
• 32:57
  owners are hype. So much more meats getting cut
• 33:00
  and it's also much better. So they decided they wanted to
• 33:03
  show Catherine appreciation but they did not want to give her a
• 33:06
  raise. So exactly one year from her
• 33:09
  start date, she was gifted a set of personalized knives and a
• 33:12
  custom leather bag to carry them in.
• 33:14
  She took them to work every day at home, she sharpened and
• 33:17
  displayed them around the house. They were her most prized
• 33:20
  possession. I think that's even better than
• 33:22
  a raise. Actually, I I just want to write
• 33:25
  a little bag that says Catherine.
• 33:27
  Look, I want one personal set of life that are nice and
• 33:30
  sharpened. Oh yes.
• 33:31
  Anyway, the owners didn't actually even need to ask
• 33:36
  Catherine to show it off. She did it on her own.
• 33:38
  And on her days off and lunch breaks, she come and hang out
• 33:41
  with her friends from different departments.
• 33:43
  Her favorite place to hang out was the pig slaughtering
• 33:46
  department. Now, unlike the cows who were
• 33:49
  killed with one blow because they're so slow, you just hit
• 33:53
  them. It's done.
• 33:54
  It's over with. Pigs were smaller and kind of
• 33:56
  wily, and it took more to kill them.
• 33:58
  Apparently, when you worked at the slaughterhouse, the sound of
• 34:01
  dying hogs was heard all over the building when the
• 34:05
  slaughtering moment happened. Lovely, Catherine thought.
• 34:09
  The job was fascinating. There was an old man who worked
• 34:12
  there who was kind of a grump, and the only person he liked was
• 34:15
  Catherine. Some people kind of made jokes
• 34:18
  that it was like a lecherous relationship, but it seemed to
• 34:21
  just be a genuine friendship between like, a grandpa and a
• 34:25
  teen girl. She just wanted to know more
• 34:27
  about killing pigs, and so he was so happy to have the company
• 34:32
  on her lunch breaks that he would do stuff he wasn't
• 34:35
  supposed to, like killing the pigs in front of her.
• 34:40
  Or he would start killing them in worse ways because it made
• 34:45
  her happy. Or one time he skinned a pig
• 34:50
  while it was alive. No.
• 34:52
  Yep, and that only made Catherine really interested in
• 34:56
  doing it herself. So he let her slaughter the pigs
• 35:01
  and sometimes she chased them around and like stabbed at them
• 35:05
  just to mess with them. Oh my God, we're pigs.
• 35:09
  So Catherine had gone in just like 3 years from a little girl
• 35:13
  who couldn't let a squirrel die on the side of the road to a
• 35:16
  full blown animal torturer, which as we know is one of the
• 35:20
  signs. Yes, just had to be pigs.
• 35:24
  Now this was it wasn't like this wasn't known around the
• 35:27
  facility, and you'd think that men knowing she was into that
• 35:30
  sort of thing would turn them off.
• 35:32
  But Nope, she was very consistently asked out.
• 35:36
  She go from work to the bar and then she fought the night away.
• 35:40
  By 1972 she was stocky, about 6 feet tall, 17 and she ended up
• 35:48
  making friends with a man named David Kellet.
• 35:51
  He was 22. One night out while they were
• 35:53
  drinking, another man insulted David and David kind of stepped
• 35:57
  down. He was like, I don't want to
• 35:59
  fight. Catherine was like I do, and she
• 36:02
  knocked the guy out and she swung on him until her hands
• 36:07
  were bloody and his teeth were all over the floor.
• 36:10
  David and other coworkers had to pull him off of the man.
• 36:14
  Now everybody else in the bar was like, typical bar fight, but
• 36:17
  the bartender was like, she's not drunk.
• 36:20
  And I know she's not drunk because I've been sending her
• 36:23
  lemonades masqueraded as another drink the whole night.
• 36:26
  So the bartender was like, this is just Catherine being
• 36:28
  Catherine, and you need to leave.
• 36:31
  The only other place that you could go drink in the entire
• 36:34
  city was a hotel that was literally across the street.
• 36:38
  So they went there. David was in awe of her.
• 36:42
  He was just like, I've never had anybody protect me.
• 36:46
  And the two began dating and David got to see what it was
• 36:50
  like to date someone like Catherine.
• 36:53
  She made wonderful home cooked meals.
• 36:55
  She fixed and improved his clothes.
• 36:57
  They had a stellar sex life that people at the slaughterhouse
• 37:02
  when the guys talked could not believe.
• 37:06
  Apparently she had the similar sexual appetite as her father
• 37:10
  and David was happy about that, so inevitably she takes him to
• 37:16
  meet her parents. Now, at this point in time, Ken
• 37:19
  is heading towards retirement. The family had moved outside of
• 37:22
  Aberdeen to a small farmhouse. It wasn't to make money though.
• 37:26
  Most of the property had been parceled out by the bank to pay
• 37:30
  for a previous owner that had gone bankrupt.
• 37:32
  So it was just like this old ramshackle farmhouse, but Ken
• 37:36
  was just like, listen, I'm just trying to rest and chill for the
• 37:39
  rest of my life. Ken was finally not being
• 37:41
  terrible to Barbara, not because he wasn't a horrible person, but
• 37:45
  because he was too old to chase her around the house anymore.
• 37:49
  Barbara, however, was a mess. She had spent the last decade
• 37:55
  isolated from nearly everyone, and it was definitely apparent
• 37:59
  in her behavior. In fact, at one point David went
• 38:03
  to the kitchen to grab a beer and Barbara corners him and just
• 38:11
  goes, You don't know this, but Catherine's got to screw loose
• 38:16
  and he's just like, sure, whatever.
• 38:18
  And she's like, no, I'm serious, if you if you fuck up, she's
• 38:21
  going to kill you. And David didn't believe it,
• 38:24
  though, because he'd only ever seen her beat that one guy, and
• 38:28
  she'd never been anything but nice to David, yeah.
• 38:31
  Because you were nice to her, so you didn't fuck up.
• 38:34
  Won't wait till you fuck up. Well, they got married a couple
• 38:36
  days after her 18th birthday. It was super cheap ceremony.
• 38:40
  David was drunk because he was so nervous, but he didn't blow
• 38:42
  it. They had a party afterward.
• 38:44
  The folks from the slaughterhouse were there.
• 38:46
  The Knight family, the Kellet family.
• 38:49
  They went back to David's company issued apartment to
• 38:51
  consummate their marriage. They had sex three times and
• 38:54
  David fell asleep. Catherine was not asleep.
• 38:59
  She was sitting there thinking about all of this night comments
• 39:02
  that David's family had made that they thought that she
• 39:05
  didn't get. But she did get him.
• 39:07
  She just decided she wasn't gonna beat anybody's ass on her
• 39:09
  wedding day. Goodness gracious.
• 39:12
  So she wanted to talk about it with David.
• 39:14
  So she tried to smack him awake, and when that didn't work, she
• 39:18
  climbed on top of him and began choking him, which woke him up.
• 39:22
  And he was very confused. He was just like, why?
• 39:25
  Why did you choke me? And she's just like, I want to
• 39:28
  talk to you. He's like, I have scratches.
• 39:30
  I am now bruised. I don't understand what's going
• 39:32
  on. And Catherine was showing him
• 39:35
  who she really was. On the wedding night.
• 39:39
  Well, So what happens next is that she demands to have sex
• 39:42
  three more times because her mom had told her that on their
• 39:49
  wedding night they had had sex five times.
• 39:53
  And she went to beat her dad's record, which totally turned
• 39:57
  David off. And he told her he's like,
• 40:00
  listen, I'm going to go to the bathroom, freshen up, I'll meet
• 40:04
  you in the bedroom, and she's like, you better be here.
• 40:08
  He goes in the bathroom, the only door in the entire
• 40:10
  apartment that locks locks the door, climbs into the tub and
• 40:14
  goes back to sleep. Passes out while Catherine is
• 40:18
  banging on the bathroom door. Oh no.
• 40:24
  After that though, she cooled it.
• 40:27
  She turned off her crazy, as men are want to say.
• 40:32
  They went back to work where David would show up, exhausted
• 40:36
  from Catherine wanting to have sex all night long, and she
• 40:39
  would show up full of energy, ready to cut.
• 40:42
  Animals up. She did all of her wifely duties
• 40:45
  expertly because Barbara was so depressed that she had stopped
• 40:52
  doing things. So Catherine sort of became very
• 40:54
  domestic when she was a child. So now that she is an adult,
• 40:59
  she's cleaning everything, She's fixing all the clothes, she's
• 41:02
  making him new clothes. She was trying so hard to be
• 41:09
  perfect and David couldn't really figure out what had
• 41:12
  happened with the whole choking situation.
• 41:14
  But since things seemed normal, he was just going to push that
• 41:18
  to the back and not bring it up anymore.
• 41:22
  The problem with all this is that Catherine was faking being
• 41:25
  the perfect wife, and months of doing all this stuff and not
• 41:30
  really entirely being true to herself was taking a toll.
• 41:34
  And she started resenting him a little bit and she started like
• 41:38
  picking at him like if he was late, her big thing.
• 41:44
  And this is going to be repeated throughout this entire
• 41:46
  situation. Her big thing is she always says
• 41:51
  that someone she's dating is cheating on her.
• 41:55
  Everyone. This went on until 1975, and
• 41:59
  David got kind of sick of it. He was living in a home where
• 42:02
  his wife went from enraged to not and then back.
• 42:07
  It was super stressful. And then Catherine, for a little
• 42:11
  bit, just stopped bothering him. They gone to visit her parents.
• 42:17
  And she kind of, I guess, thought about maybe she watched
• 42:22
  them and she wondered, like, I wonder why they've been married
• 42:24
  for so long and Dad never stepped out on Mom.
• 42:27
  And she's like, maybe that's because Barbara didn't bother
• 42:31
  Ken about all the stuff that he did.
• 42:34
  So they had a couple of months in 75 of calm until August when
• 42:44
  she found out she was pregnant and every bit of progress they
• 42:48
  were making towards this being a normal relationship was over.
• 42:52
  One night he came home to change his clothes before going to the
• 42:54
  bar and she was she insisted that he was changing so he could
• 42:59
  go me another woman. She took all of his clothes,
• 43:02
  threw them in the tub, covered them in lighter fluid and set
• 43:04
  them on fire. The Aberdeen Fire Department
• 43:08
  shows up with her husband in tow, the tub's melted, the house
• 43:12
  is full of soot, the neighbors are all outside watching.
• 43:15
  David is mortified and Catherine is just staring them all, just
• 43:19
  staring at them like I dare you to see what's going on right
• 43:24
  now. The.
• 43:25
  Fuck you're looking at. David didn't go to the bar for
• 43:29
  weeks, mind you. He's not at the bar.
• 43:33
  He's going home and come. He's going to work and come back
• 43:36
  home. She's still accusing him of
• 43:38
  cheating all day, Every day he went back to drinking so he
• 43:41
  could just get away from her. One night he came home from the
• 43:46
  bar and she was in one of her rages while ironing his clothes
• 43:50
  and she hit him in the face with the iron.
• 43:54
  He ran to the bathroom to get away from her and she screamed
• 43:58
  and hit the door with the iron until finally she quieted down
• 44:02
  and begged for forgiveness. David forgave her.
• 44:08
  The next day he walked into I See Your Face.
• 44:11
  Brian is shaking his head. No, I would not like.
• 44:15
  That's OK. Well, I forgive you, but guess
• 44:17
  what? Leaving the next day, his boss
• 44:21
  took him to the hospital. No one asked any questions,
• 44:23
  which is exactly what he wanted. He actually started doing what
• 44:27
  you do when you're in an abusive relationship.
• 44:29
  He started bending backward to make Catherine less upset,
• 44:34
  telling her where he was at every moment of the day, coming
• 44:38
  home early or exactly on the dot so she wouldn't freak out.
• 44:43
  One night he was 4 minutes late, and as soon as he walked into
• 44:48
  the kitchen, she hit him with a cast iron skillet, cracking his.
• 44:52
  Oh my God. He dragged himself to a
• 44:55
  neighbor's house to get help. He woke up the next morning at
• 44:58
  the hospital with Catherine crying next to him.
• 45:01
  David told the police that his wife was alone and she was
• 45:05
  pregnant and she said she'd hurt somebody outside and she was so
• 45:08
  scared and he came home later than usual from drinking and she
• 45:14
  must have thought that I was an intruder.
• 45:17
  So you're making excuses now? Yep, great.
• 45:20
  And the NSW Police Department? We're happy to accept the story
• 45:23
  because domestic violence is sticky and they didn't want to
• 45:26
  get involved and David didn't make a formal complaint.
• 45:32
  Eventually he went home. Catherine showered him with
• 45:34
  affection. Also very common with abusive
• 45:37
  relationships. He went back to work and she was
• 45:44
  actually forced to stay home because she was getting close to
• 45:47
  her due date. But at home, Catherine obsessed
• 45:52
  over the fact that David was going to leave her with the
• 45:54
  baby. A month later, David went to the
• 45:59
  bar for a tournament and told Catherine he'd be home at 11:00
• 46:02
  PM. When he didn't come home, she
• 46:04
  called the bar and she told and he told her he'd be home in an
• 46:07
  hour. She's like, but you said you'd
• 46:09
  be home now. And in front of his friends and
• 46:13
  her friends, he very drunkenly told Catherine, Well, maybe I
• 46:17
  won't come home at all since you're being annoying.
• 46:21
  When he got home later, she was ready with the frying pan, but
• 46:25
  he ducked. Yeah.
• 46:27
  She swung again and missed and broke a light switch.
• 46:30
  In the darkness he was able to escape and get back in his car
• 46:34
  and drive away. God, now.
• 46:37
  David felt bad because everything Catherine was
• 46:40
  accusing him of, he was absolutely doing.
• 46:43
  Ohh what the hell? What?
• 46:45
  No, no. No, no, no, you can't do that.
• 46:55
  How dare you? He had been seeing another woman
• 46:58
  for months. It actually it started after she
• 47:02
  began accusing him. So it was.
• 47:05
  It did not start before, but that doesn't matter because he
• 47:08
  still did it. And right after the frying pan
• 47:11
  attack he decides he's going to make a plan to be with this New
• 47:15
  Girl in Queensland. And that New Girl told him that
• 47:18
  she was pregnant too. David's at this point like I
• 47:23
  need to get out of town before Catherine kills me.
• 47:27
  Catherine goes into labor May of 1976, and David is supposed to
• 47:33
  pack a bag and meet her at the hospital while she goes there
• 47:36
  with her mom. Instead he got in his car and
• 47:41
  drove out of Aberdeen. Catherine gave birth to her
• 47:46
  first child, Melissa Ann, with her only her mother and father
• 47:50
  and sister by her side. In fact, her sister Joy just
• 47:54
  went out searching for David and she went back to the house.
• 47:58
  Everything in his at the house was there that belonged to him,
• 48:01
  but his car was gone. His friends were like, oh, maybe
• 48:04
  he had an accident. We should check in the road.
• 48:07
  Joy's like, I don't think so. And Catherine's like, I
• 48:10
  definitely don't think so. So this moment that she's
• 48:14
  supposed to be bonding with her baby, she is just loathing the
• 48:18
  existence of David. No one really understands this
• 48:24
  very dark place where Catherine is right now.
• 48:28
  She goes home with the baby and after several weeks of being
• 48:31
  alone with Melissa, she starts just walking the streets in a
• 48:35
  blind rage with a baby and like a stroller.
• 48:38
  And her neighbors call the police because she is like
• 48:41
  walking with the stroller, just banging it around, like
• 48:45
  completely gone. So the police pick her up, they
• 48:50
  dropped the baby at her parents house, and they take Catherine
• 48:53
  to Saint Elmo's Hospital in Tamworth.
• 48:56
  Now, there were some whispers that she might have borderline
• 48:59
  personality disorder, but ultimately the hospital
• 49:02
  diagnoses her with postpartum depression.
• 49:05
  They tried to give her an IQ test, but since she hadn't read
• 49:07
  any books or had to write anything in the last five years,
• 49:11
  she was almost illiterate. The test gave an IQ in the 80s,
• 49:15
  but that didn't line up with the person they were talking to.
• 49:19
  She was very cognizant of things.
• 49:21
  In fact, one of her doctors said Catherine Knight is a psychopath
• 49:26
  and a narcissist and you are being manipulated into getting
• 49:30
  into releasing her early. She's released seven days later.
• 49:36
  I'm gonna say that Doctor was absolutely right.
• 49:39
  He was right. Oh God.
• 49:41
  So she collects the baby from her parents and it's all calm
• 49:43
  for a few days. And one day, a man, he's a
• 49:48
  drifter in town. He just kind of wanders around
• 49:50
  transient. He's walking train tracks and he
• 49:53
  hears a baby crying and he's like, oh, well, maybe somebody's
• 49:58
  out here with their kid. And as he nears the tracks, he
• 50:01
  sees the baby on the train tracks.
• 50:04
  This, like the train, is close enough that the everything is
• 50:08
  vibrating and he runs and scoops Melissa up to take her to town.
• 50:14
  In town, Catherine is in full blown rage mode, face red.
• 50:20
  She's so angry that she can barely speak and she's just like
• 50:25
  growling and grunting. She walks into the town general
• 50:28
  store. She grabs an axe and just roars
• 50:31
  and walks back into the street. The police were called at this
• 50:34
  point and they're just kind of watching her.
• 50:37
  She's pacing up and down the street, swinging the axe in the
• 50:40
  air. The other people are coming out
• 50:42
  of their houses watching her, which is only making her more
• 50:44
  angry, and she goes to swing the axe at somebody who's watching,
• 50:50
  and she hears Melissa crying, and it startles her enough
• 50:54
  because she thought she was sure she killed this baby.
• 50:58
  They were able to subdue her and they take her back to Saint
• 51:00
  Elmo's, where she is forcefully medicated, and then it's almost
• 51:05
  like that crazy beast on the street is gone.
• 51:09
  They released her again, but this time Ken takes her home and
• 51:12
  he goes, we're keeping the baby, we'll take care of her until you
• 51:16
  get better, which is pretty good because Catherine was filled
• 51:20
  with revenge. And mind you, these situations
• 51:23
  I'm explaining, are happening weeks apart.
• 51:26
  So this baby is maybe like two months old at this point.
• 51:30
  So another night she goes next door and she bangs on her
• 51:36
  naval's door. These are actually the same
• 51:38
  neighbors who helped David the Macbeths.
• 51:42
  And she's like, my baby's sick, I need help.
• 51:45
  And 16 year old Maggie Mythbeth opens the door and agrees to
• 51:48
  help her. She's like, I'll drive you to
• 51:49
  your baby, but I gotta bring my little brother.
• 51:52
  As soon as they get in the car, Catherine drops the sweet act
• 51:55
  and she's just like, we have to drive to Queensland.
• 51:59
  I have to kill David and his whore.
• 52:02
  Now for the listeners not up on Australian geography.
• 52:05
  Aberdeen is in the southeastern part of the country.
• 52:07
  I guess it's about 200 miles away from Sydney, Australia,
• 52:10
  which is what most of us around the world know.
• 52:13
  Queensland is located a nice 17 hour drive north northwest about
• 52:19
  1500 kilometers away, which is over 1000 miles for those of us
• 52:23
  in the godless US who keep using the horrible system of.
• 52:28
  I'd be like, hey, you got gas money then Sure, 17 hour drive.
• 52:32
  Wait, is that? Two and from or is it that's
• 52:34
  two? Oh, hell no.
• 52:36
  OK, never mind. Well, so Maggie's like I can't
• 52:42
  drive to Queensland like my my parents, and Catherine actually
• 52:46
  stabs her. It's a very shallow stab, but
• 52:48
  it's enough to scare the girl. They end up stopping at a gas
• 52:52
  station to fill up, and as soon as Maggie gets out of the car,
• 52:58
  she runs into the gas station. She tells the store clerk.
• 53:03
  Catherine Knight is going to kill me and my brother.
• 53:05
  He calls the police and then he's like, you can't go back out
• 53:08
  there, she's going to hurt you. But Catherine is threatening to
• 53:13
  kill the little boy. He had tried to run too, and he
• 53:16
  got. Scooped.
• 53:20
  So the police arrived and they try and talk her down and that
• 53:25
  ended with the kids and other civilians safe.
• 53:28
  But one of the cops arms was slashed from wrist to elbow and
• 53:32
  he also got stabbed in the ribs while they were forcing her into
• 53:36
  the back of the cop car and she was just cackling.
• 53:43
  This time the staff at the hospital realized that David
• 53:46
  Kellett is in danger. He is the main discussion of
• 53:49
  every therapy appointment she has.
• 53:52
  She doesn't care that she permanently traumatized a 16
• 53:56
  year old girl. It was.
• 53:57
  I'm going to go to Queensland and torture David's mother until
• 54:00
  he tells, until she tells me where he is.
• 54:01
  Then I'm going to go kill David and his girlfriend and anyone
• 54:04
  who sees me do it. Then I'm going to come back to
• 54:05
  Aberdeen and kill anyone who helped David leave me, starting
• 54:09
  with the mechanic who fixed his car.
• 54:10
  Oh my God. So the police decide to go to
• 54:15
  Queensland and tell David. Just want to let you know your
• 54:20
  wife is committed to a hospital and she wants to kill you.
• 54:24
  I'd say leave the country. I think they thought that like,
• 54:28
  this would just prep David, but in fact it made him feel guilty.
• 54:33
  He was like, look at what I did to her.
• 54:36
  This is all my fault. So he leaves his girlfriend,
• 54:39
  who's about to have a baby in Queensland, to go back to his
• 54:43
  wife I. Don't like David?
• 54:44
  He goes to the hospital, request that she's returned to his care.
• 54:48
  He'll make sure she takes her meds.
• 54:50
  He goes, they pick up Melissa. In fact, when they opened the
• 54:54
  door, he was worried that Ken was gonna be mad at him, but it
• 54:57
  was actually Barbara who opened the door and immediately attacks
• 55:00
  him. Like this is your fault.
• 55:02
  Screaming at him, hitting him and Catherine steps in and like
• 55:05
  knocks her mom down, protecting her husband.
• 55:10
  Yeah, I got this, Mom. I'll take care of him later.
• 55:12
  Don't worry about that. Well, they take their daughter
• 55:14
  home, but after a couple days it's almost unbearable for both
• 55:17
  of them, the amount of gossip and people watching them in
• 55:20
  town. So they moved to Woodbridge,
• 55:22
  which is a suburb of Brisbane. It was a fresh start.
• 55:26
  Neither of them had any family there, no one whispered.
• 55:28
  David's mom comes from Queensland to live with them, to
• 55:31
  take care of Melissa during the day while both Catherine and
• 55:34
  David go to work. Catherine takes her medication,
• 55:36
  which does help. She's a stellar employee gifted
• 55:40
  with a knife. She would still get people back,
• 55:44
  like in high school, but it wasn't like before.
• 55:46
  She was free to be not perfect this time, and they had all this
• 55:51
  excess money because both of them were working.
• 55:54
  But the only time that Catherine was really happy was at the meat
• 55:57
  processing plant and on the very quiet drive back home.
• 56:02
  This went on for years, Catherine going through the
• 56:04
  motions, her medication, kind of cutting off that passion that
• 56:08
  David. She and David had at the
• 56:10
  beginning. They had a second child, Natasha
• 56:12
  Marie, on March 6th, 1980. David was there.
• 56:15
  He held her hand through labor. She did not have the same
• 56:19
  response. In fact, what happened was that
• 56:22
  she was bored and she resented David and it started to show.
• 56:28
  Everything sort of ended the day after Natasha's 4th birthday,
• 56:34
  March 7th, 1984. She packs up everything.
• 56:37
  No words, takes the kids, moves back to Aberdeen.
• 56:43
  It was it was like it was almost like she didn't care.
• 56:47
  David still loved her, but he was kind of relieved.
• 56:50
  She filed for divorce and she took the kids to her parents
• 56:53
  house. Catherine got a small house and
• 56:58
  Muswellbrook and went back to work at the slaughterhouse.
• 57:01
  It had been eight years and she acted like absolutely nothing
• 57:04
  had happened. In 1986, though, she was lifting
• 57:09
  a hog and she hurt her back. They rushed her to the hospital
• 57:12
  but this was a career ending injury.
• 57:15
  She ended up having to file for disability workplace
• 57:18
  compensation. She gets an apartment from the
• 57:20
  government through the housing Commission just outside of
• 57:22
  Aberdeen. She's 31 years old and has no
• 57:25
  idea what to do with her life. Melissa is 10, and while
• 57:29
  Catherine did warn Melissa about boys, she did not make the same
• 57:31
  mistake that Barbara did. But Catherine was lonely, so she
• 57:35
  started leaving the children at home at night and going to hang
• 57:37
  out with men where she meets a local minor named David
• 57:42
  Saunders. He wasn't from Aberdeen, so he
• 57:45
  gave her a chance. Because what was happening was
• 57:48
  even if she met a new guy in Aberdeen who worked at the
• 57:50
  slaughterhouse within a day, other people would be like She's
• 57:54
  crazy. You should leave her alone so
• 57:57
  David didn't wasn't in the same circle they moved in.
• 58:01
  After a couple months, the moods were up and down.
• 58:04
  She got into little fights with him and he'd go back to his
• 58:06
  apartment and sconce and sleep there.
• 58:09
  On their anniversary. He showed up with flowers
• 58:11
  expecting a nice night. Catherine was in a mood, pacing
• 58:14
  the kitchen. She walked outside, picked up
• 58:17
  the family dog that David had bought for the children and slit
• 58:20
  the dog's throat and said if I ever catch you running around on
• 58:22
  me, this is what I'm going to do to you.
• 58:26
  David's like I'm, I'm happy. I would never.
• 58:30
  But she picks up a pan and she swings it at him and he put his
• 58:34
  arm up and she broke his arm, hitting him.
• 58:37
  With a pan, yes. And then as he's like on the
• 58:40
  ground, she proceeds to beat him with the pan until he is
• 58:43
  unconscious. For a week he didn't respond to
• 58:47
  her at all. He stayed at home when the
• 58:50
  bruises went away. He started doing some works,
• 58:52
  some shifts at work. His coworkers actually mocked
• 58:55
  him for being jumpy, and the old men who worked there were like,
• 58:58
  Nah, Nah, he's dating Catherine Night.
• 59:04
  He has a reason to be jumpy. Yup, They they exactly.
• 59:07
  The older men knew. So what happened is that
• 59:11
  Catherine camped out of his apartment one day and as he's
• 59:15
  walking home, he expects violence when he sees her.
• 59:17
  But instead what he gets is Catherine crying and begging for
• 59:20
  forgiveness. He takes her back.
• 59:25
  Things are calm for a couple months, and then it goes dark
• 59:28
  again when David asks her why she's so upset.
• 59:32
  She's pregnant and she begins obsessing over David leaving
• 59:36
  her. So David tries to show her that
• 59:39
  he's serious about her by putting a down payment on the
• 59:41
  House. June 1988.
• 59:44
  She has her third daughter, Sarah Saunders now.
• 59:48
  David was like, after she gives birth, it's going to be great.
• 59:51
  Nope. Catherine was back in the
• 59:54
  postpartum state and at the beginning of 1989 they are
• 59:59
  barely speaking. Catherine got her workers
• 1:00:03
  compensation. She paid off the rest of the
• 1:00:04
  house. They started fighting.
• 1:00:07
  The first big fight was because he came home and the baby was
• 1:00:10
  still in a dirty diaper. Another time he came home and
• 1:00:14
  all his work clothes were dirty and he was like, what have you
• 1:00:17
  been doing all day? She responded by going and get a
• 1:00:20
  knife. A pair of scissors and cutting
• 1:00:23
  his shirts in front of him. That's not an answer.
• 1:00:27
  Then she went to cut his work pants and he was like no, no,
• 1:00:30
  no, those are my only other pants And he goes to grab them
• 1:00:33
  and she stabs him in the stomach with the scissors and twists
• 1:00:37
  them as she pulls. Them.
• 1:00:40
  Then she went to go get the iron and David hopped it in his car
• 1:00:45
  and drove away. He didn't speak to her for
• 1:00:50
  several days. He was like, this is the second
• 1:00:53
  time this woman's tried to kill me.
• 1:00:55
  I'm not going to give her a third chance.
• 1:00:56
  He only went back to Aberdeen to try and see his daughter and
• 1:01:00
  that's when he learned that Catherine had gone to the police
• 1:01:02
  and lied to them and got an apprehended violence order,
• 1:01:05
  which is specifically to keep someone violent away from you.
• 1:01:09
  What? Excuse me, this order said that
• 1:01:11
  he could not contact or see Catherine or the kids.
• 1:01:15
  What does she say that he did to her?
• 1:01:17
  I don't know fam. Because.
• 1:01:20
  Oh my God. Like I I would have just went to
• 1:01:22
  the police station. You see this stab wound in my
• 1:01:25
  stomach? She stabbed me.
• 1:01:27
  I didn't do shit for her. Well next guy she dated is his
• 1:01:31
  name was John Chillingworth and she actually met him the day
• 1:01:34
  that they came. He came back to Aberdeen.
• 1:01:37
  They had worked together when she was younger, but he he was
• 1:01:42
  10 years older than her and he was honestly kind of creeped out
• 1:01:45
  when she was coming onto him as a 17 year old.
• 1:01:49
  Now they were roughly 44 and 34 and he was like, yeah, don't
• 1:01:54
  mind now. John was not like the Davids.
• 1:01:58
  The first time Catherine swung on him, he ducked and he smacked
• 1:02:02
  the hell out of her. In fact, she threw him out of
• 1:02:05
  her house, mainly because she was kind of startled that he
• 1:02:09
  just hadn't taken the abuse. She begged him to come home the
• 1:02:12
  next. Day.
• 1:02:15
  And bless her heart, Melissa. Like, what a lovely child.
• 1:02:18
  All she heard from her mom was that John hit her.
• 1:02:23
  So when John comes back, Melissa's like, you hit my mom
• 1:02:27
  and like gets mad at him and he smacks her too.
• 1:02:29
  And he's like, sit down little girl.
• 1:02:30
  Oh my God. Catherine gets pregnant.
• 1:02:34
  And John was like, maybe we should get married.
• 1:02:37
  But he realizes that Catherine doesn't care about being
• 1:02:39
  married, so he's like, bet this is awesome.
• 1:02:43
  Throughout this pregnancy, all the same accusations, just like
• 1:02:47
  the first David's. And just like the first David,
• 1:02:51
  John started sleeping with somebody else.
• 1:02:53
  You. Dumb ass.
• 1:02:55
  Her only son, Eric, was born in 1990.
• 1:02:58
  His father was present and right after he was born, Catherine was
• 1:03:03
  a domestic queen again. John felt bad about cheating
• 1:03:07
  because she was just being so awesome.
• 1:03:10
  So he tells her the truth. She walks into the bathroom,
• 1:03:15
  punches the glass container holding his like bridge,
• 1:03:19
  breaking it. Then she walks out and punches
• 1:03:22
  him square in the jaw, breaking some of his real teeth too.
• 1:03:26
  That night he went to his company sponsored apartment and
• 1:03:30
  then came back to the house and picked up his stuff.
• 1:03:32
  He found Catherine in their bedroom.
• 1:03:34
  She was overducing on all of the sleeping pills in the house.
• 1:03:39
  He drove her to the hospital, of course.
• 1:03:42
  Guilty for driving her to suicide, the captor for
• 1:03:45
  observation. For a week, things went back to
• 1:03:48
  normal. But this time Catherine began
• 1:03:51
  cheating and she planned it. So one night when when Jack came
• 1:03:56
  home from work, Sean came home from work, he would see it.
• 1:04:00
  He walked into the house, found her having sex with another man
• 1:04:03
  in their bed. He's just like, you know what?
• 1:04:05
  I'm done with this. He leaves the house, never comes
• 1:04:08
  back. He actually moved away from
• 1:04:09
  Aberdeen. Quit drinking, ended up becoming
• 1:04:11
  a drug and alcohol counselor and spent the rest of his life
• 1:04:15
  helping other addicts. John Chillingham is the only man
• 1:04:18
  to escape Catherine Knight with no permanent injuries and he's
• 1:04:22
  the last one to escape alive. The man Catherine was cheating
• 1:04:27
  with was John Price and the affair had been going on for a
• 1:04:30
  year before Catherine decided to use him to hurt her ex as their
• 1:04:35
  affair turn into a real relationship.
• 1:04:36
  It was pretty good in the beginning.
• 1:04:38
  Pricey, as he was called in town, brought out a certain
• 1:04:41
  gentleness in Catherine. He knew about her past.
• 1:04:44
  He didn't really care. She met his two kids.
• 1:04:46
  They liked her. Her own children really liked
• 1:04:49
  him. They were like, this is probably
• 1:04:51
  the nicest, gentlest person you've ever dated, just like
• 1:04:56
  normal. After a little bit, she starts
• 1:04:58
  accusing him of cheating. She yells, She hits him, but he
• 1:05:01
  is completely smitten with her and anybody who sees can tell
• 1:05:06
  people in town actually try and warn him, but he decides to take
• 1:05:10
  Catherine in her word and he's just like, listen, you were just
• 1:05:13
  protecting yourself from evil man, and those men before you
• 1:05:16
  were weak before me were weak. They couldn't handle a strong
• 1:05:19
  woman. In 1993, the infidelity argument
• 1:05:24
  stops, and now she's mad because Price is not marrying her.
• 1:05:29
  Now John Price had been married before and he felt like his
• 1:05:33
  relationship went sour after they got married.
• 1:05:37
  And he'd asked Catherine about her first marriage and it seemed
• 1:05:40
  like it was the same thing. They've been happy and then they
• 1:05:43
  got married and it went to hell. So he's like, why ruin a good
• 1:05:47
  thing with a wedding in 1995? He tries to make her happy and
• 1:05:53
  he says move in with me. He's a supervisor at the mine.
• 1:05:57
  The company gave him a really nice 3 bedroom house.
• 1:06:00
  She decides to keep her house and move in with him, which was
• 1:06:06
  great because he didn't exactly like the fact that she had
• 1:06:08
  animal skins and bones all over her house.
• 1:06:10
  Anyway, things are great for a year.
• 1:06:14
  They live like a married couple. She starts asking about getting
• 1:06:17
  married again. These fights happen daily until
• 1:06:20
  about 1998, and then as a retaliation for fighting with
• 1:06:29
  him, one night she takes a video camera that he bought for her
• 1:06:32
  for Christmas and she videotapes things that John had taken from
• 1:06:37
  the trash at the mine, mainly old expired Med kits.
• 1:06:41
  And she mails that tape to his boss and he gets fired after 17
• 1:06:46
  years. Even after he explained that all
• 1:06:49
  of those supplies were expired, they wanted nothing to do with
• 1:06:52
  him or Catherine. He drove home, gathered all of
• 1:06:58
  Catherine's stuff, and chucked it out the front door.
• 1:07:01
  When she got home, she discovered all of the locks of
• 1:07:04
  the house were changed. They stood on the porch
• 1:07:06
  screaming at each other for about two hours until the
• 1:07:08
  neighbors threatened to call the police.
• 1:07:10
  She picked up her stuff, and she went back to McQueen St.
• 1:07:14
  John was free from Catherine, but he came up against some
• 1:07:19
  pushback. While he wasn't, like,
• 1:07:21
  officially blacklisted from the mining companies, other men knew
• 1:07:26
  about Catherine and they were kind of wary of dealing with any
• 1:07:30
  man who was dealing with her. She started hanging out with the
• 1:07:35
  bars again looking for him, and their paths crossed.
• 1:07:39
  He tried to avoid her, but eventually one night he decides
• 1:07:42
  to just say hi. They go back to sleeping
• 1:07:45
  together. The news of the two of them back
• 1:07:47
  together goes through town in a second, and the next day his
• 1:07:51
  friends show up at his new job to have an intervention.
• 1:07:56
  They're just like, listen, we don't want to watch you hurt
• 1:07:58
  yourself with this woman. Either she goes or we go.
• 1:08:02
  John's like, listen, it's just sex.
• 1:08:04
  I'm not going to move back in with her or anything.
• 1:08:07
  People in Aberdeen actually contacted David Kellett and
• 1:08:11
  we're like, you need to come talk to this guy.
• 1:08:13
  So David Kellett meets him at a bar and shows John all of the
• 1:08:18
  scars that he got from the years he lived with Catherine.
• 1:08:24
  He even shares the warning that Barbara gave to him before their
• 1:08:27
  wedding. If you cross her, she'll kill
• 1:08:30
  you, he says. Do you understand?
• 1:08:32
  This isn't a joke? She will kill you.
• 1:08:35
  John sat there, kind of not taking it seriously.
• 1:08:39
  Dude, you got all these people coming to you saying stay away,
• 1:08:42
  stay away, you're gonna die. Before John even returned home
• 1:08:48
  that night, David had already left Aberdeen.
• 1:08:51
  Just being there was triggering for him, but he had done
• 1:08:56
  everything he could to save John Price.
• 1:09:00
  John started allowing Catherine to come by his house for date
• 1:09:02
  nights. She would cook for him, they'd
• 1:09:05
  eat, have sex. She'd go home.
• 1:09:08
  She started pushing for more in the relationship.
• 1:09:12
  It would escalate to Catherine screaming at him.
• 1:09:14
  He'd shove her out the front door of the house, lock the
• 1:09:17
  door. By 2000, the harassment is just
• 1:09:21
  incessant. They get in a fight and he
• 1:09:24
  remind her why they're not together.
• 1:09:26
  And she, of course, is like, well, listen, that's not who I'm
• 1:09:28
  not that person anymore. I won't do that again.
• 1:09:31
  And he's like, of course you won't do it again because you
• 1:09:33
  can't ruin my 17 year career again because I don't have it
• 1:09:36
  anymore. I'm never letting you live here
• 1:09:39
  again. This fight happened weekly.
• 1:09:43
  She'd scream, calm down. They'd make up.
• 1:09:46
  One night they were together and he told her he would never let
• 1:09:50
  her hold any power over his life ever again because her temper
• 1:09:55
  caused her to wreck things and Catherine was offended.
• 1:10:01
  In fact, she told him, You've never really seen me angry.
• 1:10:06
  She got up and started hitting him, stabbed him in the chest
• 1:10:09
  with a knife. He grabbed her, threw her out of
• 1:10:12
  the house onto the street. The blade was in one of his
• 1:10:16
  ribs, and it was in such a location that if it'd been about
• 1:10:19
  1/2 an inch, if she'd been 1/2 inch off of her mark, she would
• 1:10:22
  have stabbed him in the heart in fact.
• 1:10:26
  And then as he was standing there, he was like, oh crap, the
• 1:10:28
  back door is open. He rushes to lock the back door.
• 1:10:32
  She's there banging on the on all of the doors.
• 1:10:35
  He locks all the first floor windows and eventually she
• 1:10:37
  leaves. That is February 28th, 2000.
• 1:10:44
  I can't. I just can't.
• 1:10:46
  February 29th, he stops at the Scone Magistrate Court on his
• 1:10:50
  way to work and gets a restraining order against
• 1:10:52
  Catherine. He tells his coworkers that day
• 1:10:56
  at work, if I don't come to work, you need to come look for
• 1:10:59
  me because I think that means that Catherine will have killed
• 1:11:02
  me. His coworkers beg him not to go
• 1:11:06
  home. They're like they they at first
• 1:11:08
  they think that he's just like being a tough guy.
• 1:11:11
  But in fact, he says, I'm worried that if I show, if I'm
• 1:11:16
  not there and the children are there, she's going to kill the
• 1:11:20
  kids. So I have to go back just to
• 1:11:23
  make sure they're OK. He goes to the house after the
• 1:11:25
  kids get home from school, he has them pack up, go stay the
• 1:11:29
  night with their friends and have a sleepover.
• 1:11:32
  He actually doesn't even. He spends most of the night,
• 1:11:34
  February 29th, at his friend's house, like across the street,
• 1:11:39
  just kind of watching, making sure she wasn't there.
• 1:11:43
  At 11:00 PM. He's confident she's not going
• 1:11:45
  to come. He goes back to his house.
• 1:11:49
  Catherine, on the other hand, spent her day differently.
• 1:11:52
  First thing she does is she goes to his house.
• 1:11:56
  While he's not there, she films the kids almost as if she's
• 1:12:05
  making like a will, and she's talking on the camera about,
• 1:12:10
  like things she's going to give to the children once she's gone.
• 1:12:14
  Then she went to town, brought new lingerie and waited.
• 1:12:20
  And after she saw him go into his house, she broke in, watched
• 1:12:25
  a little TV, took a shower, and then sexually assaulted him.
• 1:12:30
  She pretty much, like, mounted him while he was sleeping.
• 1:12:34
  He didn't even realize what was going on, like he was asleep and
• 1:12:39
  she'd actually hung her bag of knives above his bed.
• 1:12:45
  When they finished, he was loud, he was awake, and he was like,
• 1:12:48
  Oh no. And he actually, like, pushes
• 1:12:52
  her off of him, which makes her angry.
• 1:12:54
  Yeah. She grabbed one of the knives
• 1:12:57
  and stabs him between the ribs, collapsing one of his lungs.
• 1:13:01
  He gets up and tries to run away, but his back is an even
• 1:13:03
  easier target and she stabs him two more times from behind.
• 1:13:07
  He fell down and she sits on his chest stabbing him over and over
• 1:13:12
  again. Somehow I don't know if it was a
• 1:13:16
  rush of adrenaline. He throws her off of him and
• 1:13:18
  manages to get outside onto the porch before just the adrenaline
• 1:13:23
  wears off and he kind of succumbs to his injuries.
• 1:13:26
  She drags him back inside and stabs him to death.
• 1:13:32
  Then she cleans herself off, drives into town with his car,
• 1:13:37
  goes to the ATM and empties his bank account.
• 1:13:40
  Comes home, skins him, hangs the skin from a meat hook from the
• 1:13:45
  top of the door in the lounge, decapitates him, cooks part of
• 1:13:49
  his body with baked potatoes, pumpkin beetroot, zucchini,
• 1:13:52
  cabbage, yellow squash and gravy.
• 1:13:55
  Puts 2 servings on the table and then puts those and puts the
• 1:13:58
  names of his children, Rebecca and John, in like little place
• 1:14:04
  cards on the table. A third meal is tossed in the
• 1:14:07
  backyard. She put his hot his head in a
• 1:14:11
  pot with vegetables and then she took the rest of his skinned
• 1:14:15
  body and arranged it in his favorite chair with his arms
• 1:14:18
  slung over an empty soda bottle and his legs crossed.
• 1:14:22
  She leaves a handwritten note with a piece of his skin on it,
• 1:14:25
  accusing him of raping one of her daughters and his own
• 1:14:30
  children. Then she takes all of her psych
• 1:14:34
  meds that were in the Cabot, climbs into the blood soaked bed
• 1:14:38
  and just waits to die. Wow.
• 1:14:43
  So I gotta say one thing. While you were mentioning all
• 1:14:46
  that, the preparation for the food and stuff, my stomach did
• 1:14:49
  start growling. Oh no.
• 1:14:53
  Not because it was advertising to me.
• 1:14:55
  Just because I'm hungry, OK, some Chinese food.
• 1:14:59
  I just. It's just it was just a funny
• 1:15:03
  moment. It happened, well, true to their
• 1:15:07
  word, when he didn't show up for work, his coworkers were like,
• 1:15:11
  we need to go check on him. In fact, they showed up at 6:00
• 1:15:14
  AM. Oh oh, they were ready, the
• 1:15:18
  coworker was greeted with a bloody hamper on the front door
• 1:15:21
  and a blood smear on the porch leading back inside the house.
• 1:15:24
  They called the police. Police break in to find a
• 1:15:27
  comatose Catherine. The first responders are
• 1:15:31
  horrified. They didn't even understand what
• 1:15:34
  they were looking at the entire downstairs.
• 1:15:37
  The stairwell leading down there is just covered in blood.
• 1:15:41
  And finally, one of the other police officers goes, that's a
• 1:15:45
  nose, that's pubic hair, and they realize that they are
• 1:15:49
  looking at John Price's flesh. Later on, they'll discover that
• 1:15:54
  she actually stabbed him 37 times in many vital organs.
• 1:15:59
  Most of the men present that day quit working as cops after
• 1:16:02
  viewing the scene. There were more than one report
• 1:16:05
  of suicide, and the few who didn't quit stayed away from
• 1:16:12
  meat for a little bit. In fact, the police arrived
• 1:16:17
  quick enough to discover that the pot with his head in it was
• 1:16:21
  still warm, which means that they got there shortly after she
• 1:16:25
  finished, which also means she didn't have time to die.
• 1:16:28
  Oh no. They also deduced that the meal
• 1:16:31
  in the backyard was from her trying the food and being
• 1:16:34
  disgusted by it. And the interesting thing was
• 1:16:38
  that the skinning had been done so expertly that after the
• 1:16:42
  autopsy, the coroner was able to kind of put him back together.
• 1:16:46
  Oh no, I don't. Know how I don't like that it's
• 1:16:50
  an awful image, but like, at least he could sort of have an
• 1:16:53
  open casket. Yeah, sort of, but not anyway.
• 1:16:57
  Go ahead, listen, skilled mortician could probably make it
• 1:17:01
  work. Got to cover that neck wound,
• 1:17:03
  though. Two days later, Catherine wakes
• 1:17:05
  up from her coma and the police are like, we're ready to
• 1:17:08
  interview you. But they kind of forgot about
• 1:17:10
  her mental health issues. Catherine's like, I don't
• 1:17:13
  remember anything from the past couple days, and if this was the
• 1:17:18
  first time that Catherine had hurt a man, they might have been
• 1:17:22
  willing to accept that. But while the police are kind of
• 1:17:26
  like, well, we got to wait for her to be in a better headspace,
• 1:17:30
  hundreds of people show up at the police station and they're
• 1:17:33
  just like, we want to give a statement about Catherine
• 1:17:36
  Knight. Everyone in in Aberdeen is
• 1:17:40
  terrified of what will happen if she is ever like let out.
• 1:17:46
  So the first time she shows up to court, she tries to plead
• 1:17:49
  guilty for manslaughter, saying that she remembers nothing, but
• 1:17:53
  obviously she did it because there's evidence.
• 1:17:56
  The judge is like, this is the worst crime I've ever seen in my
• 1:17:59
  entire life. Absolutely.
• 1:18:01
  There is no such thing. You're not even allowed to bleed
• 1:18:04
  anything right now. Honestly, unless you are
• 1:18:07
  pleading to 1st degree murder, I don't want to hear you.
• 1:18:10
  I plead guilty to everything. She was arraigned on March 2nd,
• 1:18:14
  2001, where she entered A plea of not guilty.
• 1:18:17
  Her child was originally planned for July 23rd, but it got pushed
• 1:18:21
  back to October 15th, 2001 because her lawyer actually got
• 1:18:24
  sick during that time, they decided to have her
• 1:18:27
  psychologically evaluated. Not to prove that she was insane
• 1:18:31
  or anything, but I just wanted to prove that she was competent
• 1:18:33
  enough to enter a plea. And that was when she was
• 1:18:37
  formally given a borderline personality diagnosis.
• 1:18:41
  But in fact, some of her old psychiatrists came forward and
• 1:18:44
  were like no, no, no, no, We disagree.
• 1:18:47
  Don't do this. I'll explain why they said that
• 1:18:51
  in a little bit. Trying to find a jury for this
• 1:18:54
  trial was pretty rough. Almost all of Aberdeen knew
• 1:18:57
  about the legend of Katherine Knight and Justice Barry O'Keefe
• 1:19:00
  gave the jurors the the opportunity to back out because
• 1:19:04
  the the pictures of the crime scene were particularly gruesome
• 1:19:07
  and about 5 people did remove themselves.
• 1:19:10
  But of the pool about 60 potential jurors, they did find
• 1:19:13
  enough people for the trial. So the borderline personality
• 1:19:19
  situation here is that Catherine pretty much said she frequently
• 1:19:23
  dissociated and had been this is what she did on the night the
• 1:19:26
  crime happened. Her lawyer used this diagnosis
• 1:19:30
  to say that she was not culpable for her actions.
• 1:19:33
  You know, I have to say this because a lot of people don't.
• 1:19:35
  This is a I wouldn't say it's a rare diagnosis, but it's not as
• 1:19:39
  common as some of the other ones we've heard.
• 1:19:41
  Usually when we talk about killers, we hear schizophrenic.
• 1:19:45
  It's a very hard mental illness to have.
• 1:19:47
  It's hard to diagnose. But I feel like I should just
• 1:19:51
  explain it because a lot of people who have mental illnesses
• 1:19:54
  really find the way that it is portrayed in court to be very
• 1:19:58
  disrespectful. Yes, Catherine did have some of
• 1:20:03
  the symptoms, but dissociation is not.
• 1:20:06
  You forgetting who and where you are and you just black out for a
• 1:20:09
  month. Dissociation is your mind
• 1:20:12
  separating itself from the information and stimulus coming
• 1:20:16
  in. It can affect your sense of
• 1:20:18
  identity, your sense of self. It affects your sense of time.
• 1:20:22
  People dissociating report feeling like they are almost
• 1:20:25
  outside of themselves, watching them experience the world, They
• 1:20:30
  don't forget what's happening to them.
• 1:20:32
  It's not a blackout. You're just kind of watching and
• 1:20:35
  not feeling what's happening. For you, my friends who have had
• 1:20:41
  this, have told, who have, who have experienced it, have told
• 1:20:47
  me that they feel just numb and like they're watching themselves
• 1:20:50
  in a film, it's really hard to explain.
• 1:20:53
  It's like you're a third person. You're not the first person,
• 1:20:56
  right? But because this is such a hard
• 1:20:57
  thing to explain to people who don't understand, it has this
• 1:21:00
  aspect of her supposed mental illness, and it was definitely
• 1:21:04
  on purpose. In fact, one of my best friends
• 1:21:06
  for the last decade has BPD. And you know who this person is,
• 1:21:10
  Brian. But I won't say their name on
• 1:21:11
  air because this diagnosis gets a really bad rap.
• 1:21:16
  People treat you poorly for having it.
• 1:21:18
  I have come across dozens upon dozens of articles that just are
• 1:21:22
  like, This is why you shouldn't date someone with BPD.
• 1:21:26
  It's a very difficult illness to manage and I've known three
• 1:21:28
  different people in my life who are managing it and are nothing
• 1:21:32
  like this. Yeah, I know a few as well,
• 1:21:35
  Catherine and. Her lawyer put on a.
• 1:21:37
  Whole show. So at the beginning of the trial
• 1:21:41
  they. You know, read off all of your
• 1:21:43
  crimes, Catherine begins begging to.
• 1:21:47
  Leave the courtroom, she cries, and she begins wailing.
• 1:21:50
  She has an entire fit when they bring out the photos of the
• 1:21:54
  crime scene and they. Actually have to sedate her.
• 1:21:58
  Thankfully, the jury didn't care at all.
• 1:22:00
  If she remembered committing the crime because her bloody
• 1:22:03
  fingerprints were all over John's house.
• 1:22:05
  And she was the only person in town, one of the few people in
• 1:22:09
  town who could fillet a man with that much skill, and the only
• 1:22:12
  one with the motive to do it. The judge sentenced her to life
• 1:22:16
  in prison. And then?
• 1:22:17
  Added to her file never to be released, she was the first
• 1:22:22
  woman in Australia to receive. This punishment and I remember
• 1:22:26
  thinking at the time, all because she killed one man.
• 1:22:30
  Sure it was gruesome, but I read worse.
• 1:22:32
  But now, after researching this, Catherine Knight was a menace to
• 1:22:38
  everyone. In Aberdeen, from 15 years old
• 1:22:41
  to 46, like I get why nobody in this area wanted her there at
• 1:22:46
  all. So Catherine has been in the.
• 1:22:49
  Mulloa. High security prison.
• 1:22:51
  Ever since, she is escorted by 4 armed guards because even
• 1:22:57
  medicated, they see her as still dangerous.
• 1:23:01
  She wakes up at 7:00 AM. She eats breakfast in the same
• 1:23:03
  room as the other prisoners, but nowhere near them.
• 1:23:06
  They walk her to her job in the prison.
• 1:23:08
  They handcuff her to her station, which is out of reach
• 1:23:11
  of all the other inmates where she assembles small intricate
• 1:23:14
  earpieces. She is very good at her job,
• 1:23:16
  actually, so good that it's the the job that pays the most in
• 1:23:20
  the prison and she got it because she's the best doing it
• 1:23:26
  and interestingly. Enough the.
• 1:23:27
  Prisoners call her Nana, and she often handles disputes between.
• 1:23:32
  The women in prison before guards are called.
• 1:23:35
  Sometimes when they prisoners get upset with the guards, she
• 1:23:38
  tells them to knock it off and they do.
• 1:23:41
  Her word is pretty much the law under the law because people are
• 1:23:45
  still scared of her even now like 20/21.
• 1:23:48
  She is a 65 year old woman. When she is at cell times, she.
• 1:23:53
  She's turned her love of meticulous knife work into
• 1:23:56
  drawings, paintings, pottery, knitting, intricate pieces.
• 1:24:00
  Her artwork is so good that the prison put it up in the visitor
• 1:24:03
  and guard section. Some pieces have been sold to
• 1:24:06
  help fund programs in the prison, but she doesn't find
• 1:24:09
  them. She doesn't actually like the
• 1:24:11
  idea of people buying it because she's the killer.
• 1:24:13
  There are people who would. Exactly there.
• 1:24:17
  I'm like there. Are people in the States who are
• 1:24:18
  like, absolutely. I will sign anything you want
• 1:24:21
  for some money. In the last 20 years, Catherine
• 1:24:24
  has never. Been given a cellmate.
• 1:24:26
  The prison thinks that she's still a risk, and so the only
• 1:24:30
  way to keep everyone else safe around her is to have these
• 1:24:34
  guards on her whenever she's around anyone.
• 1:24:37
  She's not allowed to be alone except in herself.
• 1:24:41
  Honestly, I agree. Like, this is one of those.
• 1:24:43
  Situations where I am pretty solid in what the courts did
• 1:24:47
  normally, we're like mad at the justice.
• 1:24:49
  But I'm like, no, you guys are good.
• 1:24:52
  NSW high five, absolutely on. Yeah, now a lot of people.
• 1:24:59
  Who listen to this podcast often e-mail me asking for more modern
• 1:25:03
  stories. The problem with modern stories
• 1:25:06
  is that there are people who are still alive like her four
• 1:25:09
  children, Melissa and Natasha Kellet, Sarah Saunders and Eric
• 1:25:13
  Chillingworth. These are real people with who
• 1:25:17
  are in their 30s and 40s and they are just trying to live
• 1:25:21
  their lives. And not deal with this None of
• 1:25:24
  her kids have anything to do with her.
• 1:25:26
  John Price did have three children total, Rebecca,
• 1:25:28
  Rosemary and John. Rebecca and John.
• 1:25:34
  There's no mention of them in any publications.
• 1:25:38
  The one thing I. Did find was that John's
• 1:25:40
  daughter Rosemary, who was not there when the crimes happened,
• 1:25:43
  is not fond of sensationalism about her father's death.
• 1:25:47
  And I found an article where she spoke about how distasteful it
• 1:25:51
  was that someone was trying to make a movie about him.
• 1:25:54
  Yeah, I saw that I was. I was looking up and I was.
• 1:25:57
  Like, and they were going to name it after his nickname for
• 1:26:01
  her. He called her The Speckled Hen.
• 1:26:03
  And I'm like, that's it. Term of Endearment.
• 1:26:06
  I don't want that movie. Catherine did appeal her.
• 1:26:12
  Life sentence in June of 2006. She said that it was too severe
• 1:26:17
  to never give her a chance to rehabilitate.
• 1:26:20
  Justices Peter McClellan, Michael Adams and Megan Latham
• 1:26:24
  discussed the appeal in September of 2006, and they
• 1:26:28
  rejected it primarily because. Catherine has never shown any
• 1:26:32
  remorse for this murder and Justice McClellan wrote in his
• 1:26:35
  formal response. This was an appalling crime,
• 1:26:39
  almost beyond contemplation in civilized society.
• 1:26:42
  I would say he's right, and there's really no way we could
• 1:26:45
  ever know if Catherine has been rehabilitated.
• 1:26:48
  And I wouldn't risk trying. To rehabilitate her and put her
• 1:26:52
  around other people? No, because he even has a
• 1:26:55
  grandma. She could still slice and dice
• 1:26:59
  somebody. My God, hell yeah.
• 1:27:01
  One of the things that was struck.
• 1:27:02
  By this week's subject is how misogyny protected Catherine
• 1:27:08
  Knight. None of the men she ever dated
• 1:27:11
  ever filed a police. Report against her.
• 1:27:13
  And a lot of that was from the shame of reporting that they
• 1:27:17
  were abuse victims. I know some of these
• 1:27:20
  relationships. Were from decades ago, but this
• 1:27:23
  is still an issue today. Men are being abused by women
• 1:27:27
  like Catherine. Knight and we just don't talk
• 1:27:29
  about it and they get laughed at when they report it or mocked by
• 1:27:32
  both men and women alike. And I I'm just left wondering
• 1:27:35
  if, globally, the culture around domestic violence was different
• 1:27:40
  and less misogynistic, then maybe she would have been put in
• 1:27:43
  prison long before she murdered John Price, right?
• 1:27:46
  Yeah, this is one of those few times.
• 1:27:49
  In the podcast. Where I'm not upset with the
• 1:27:51
  justice system, I'm more upset with society.
• 1:27:57
  It is the thing. I just like this.
• 1:27:59
  Just came up like a day or two ago about men and being, you
• 1:28:04
  know. In relationships with her being
• 1:28:06
  abused, I'm like, look, if you need someone to talk to, I will
• 1:28:09
  not judge you at all. Yeah, it's wrong.
• 1:28:12
  It's it's it's a thing men do get.
• 1:28:15
  And it's, yeah, it's rough, it's terrible.
• 1:28:17
  And The thing is, globally around the world, in the 50s,
• 1:28:21
  sixties, 70s, it was the same way like.
• 1:28:26
  You didn't want to show that you weren't masculine.
• 1:28:30
  And sure, Catherine Knight was 6 feet and she was a very several
• 1:28:36
  of the books I read described to her as having a sculpted
• 1:28:39
  physique. It's because she was constantly
• 1:28:41
  lifting, having things. She was built, but not like
• 1:28:45
  bodybuilder built. Yeah, she was just.
• 1:28:47
  Like a toned type, right? She was toned, yeah.
• 1:28:49
  Yeah, and attractive, but like. Regardless of how tall she was.
• 1:28:58
  Me, it's one of those weird things, cuz in the beginning we
• 1:28:59
  were like, yay, rah, rah. She's beating up her brothers
• 1:29:02
  who are touching her. Yeah.
• 1:29:03
  And then I'm like now she's just beating up everybody.
• 1:29:06
  Yeah, I I forever. I love how the stories.
• 1:29:09
  Like devolve into this. Like, yay, I'm cheering for this
• 1:29:13
  person because they have a like they had a rough time but now
• 1:29:15
  they're like overcoming it and then you're then eventually it
• 1:29:19
  becomes like them being the assaulter or like the Yeah, it's
• 1:29:23
  just. Well, that's the humanity and
• 1:29:25
  part of why like doing this podcast, because all of these
• 1:29:29
  people. Are human, which means there is.
• 1:29:34
  It's multifaceted. There is.
• 1:29:38
  Good and bad in everybody. Unfortunately, in this case the
• 1:29:42
  bad was. Very bad.
• 1:29:43
  It's usually very bad when we talk about these things, but one
• 1:29:47
  thing that we we learn is that they come from they experience
• 1:29:51
  some of the the very human things that a lot of us have.
• 1:29:54
  Some of these people come from broken homes.
• 1:29:56
  That's pops up all the time. And our our stories or.
• 1:30:02
  So that's important to me because I I don't know why.
• 1:30:06
  This is just one of those things that's really important to me,
• 1:30:08
  which is just even the worst of. Us are still people, and somehow
• 1:30:15
  me recognizing that allows me to, kind of.
• 1:30:21
  Know my place. We all have a capacity.
• 1:30:25
  For evil, and the thing that makes us different from
• 1:30:29
  everybody else is the fact that we choose not to do it.
• 1:30:33
  Exactly. That's how we handle it.
• 1:30:35
  We do it with it. I don't believe in in.
• 1:30:39
  Looking at people and treating them like they're boogeyman,
• 1:30:43
  this is a monster. I'm like, this is a person who
• 1:30:47
  did a monstrous thing. Make no mistakes.
• 1:30:52
  I talk about people on the tech talk all the time who kill
• 1:30:57
  people out of love. For other people.
• 1:31:01
  So never say never, I guess. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:31:05
  But what do you have for me today, Brian?
• 1:31:09
  That was a great story. I hated it.
• 1:31:17
  Oh dude. Goodness gracious.
• 1:31:22
  So. This week.
• 1:31:24
  I was let you know that. I I get.
• 1:31:26
  Lost easily inside of buildings I'm unfamiliar with.
• 1:31:30
  Oh, like so for my job. You know, I go to hospitals and
• 1:31:34
  stuff. Like that, right?
• 1:31:34
  You have to walk through all the finding hospital hallways.
• 1:31:37
  Uh huh. The worst one is Hershey.
• 1:31:38
  That's where it is. But like when I first would.
• 1:31:43
  Go to a hospital. I'd get lost a couple times.
• 1:31:45
  But they have signs in the walls.
• 1:31:46
  I'm like OK. Well, at least I don't get that
• 1:31:48
  lost. I know which way I should be
• 1:31:49
  heading, but can you just? Imagine if someone.
• 1:31:55
  Would just would just drop me off inside of like the
• 1:31:59
  Winchester Mystery House. I love the Winchester Mystery
• 1:32:02
  House and like at night and I have no idea where.
• 1:32:06
  The hell I'm going and all those whining in like trap doors and
• 1:32:09
  stuff. Listen, if we can go there, I
• 1:32:11
  would absolutely go there with you like.
• 1:32:17
  I it would take me like. Forever to find my way out of
• 1:32:20
  that damn. But I've been saving this story.
• 1:32:26
  It's been in my back pocket for. I don't know since we started
• 1:32:29
  the freaking podcast, I think, but this is one of my favorites.
• 1:32:33
  I decided to talk about it since it's getting.
• 1:32:35
  Closer and. Closer to freaking October.
• 1:32:38
  Can you believe that? My God, like I'm planning.
• 1:32:43
  It's what's, say, 25th. It's almost October.
• 1:32:46
  This. Friday.
• 1:32:47
  Oh my God. I gotta get a damn costume.
• 1:32:50
  I know, so I figured. Why not, you know, break it?
• 1:32:56
  I'm ready. All right.
• 1:32:58
  So now before we get into you. Know the spooky home house?
• 1:33:03
  It's it's only right that we delve into the mind of its
• 1:33:07
  designer creator. Constructor.
• 1:33:11
  Yeah, whatever. She doesn't do anything, not.
• 1:33:13
  She just got the plans and she's hired people?
• 1:33:15
  Yeah, so we're talking about. I feel bad for her.
• 1:33:20
  Yeah. We'll talk a little bit about
• 1:33:22
  Sarah Winchester. Herself, she was born Sarah
• 1:33:29
  Lockwood Party. The daughter of.
• 1:33:32
  Leonard Party and Sarah Burns. She grew up pretty well off.
• 1:33:37
  I mean, she spoke like 4 languages, so she spoke 4
• 1:33:41
  languages. She went to like good schools.
• 1:33:43
  She was very beautiful and had a very sparkling personality.
• 1:33:48
  So I can't remember a picture of her, so I'm gonna say she
• 1:33:53
  pretty. She grew up pretty.
• 1:33:55
  By the way, her family is from Connecticut.
• 1:33:59
  Yeah, that's basically where this all started.
• 1:34:02
  So Connecticut, I know she didn't move West until later.
• 1:34:07
  Way later. Yeah.
• 1:34:08
  Yeah, it's a pretty. Safe visit in the fall.
• 1:34:12
  You know this time of year if. You wanna go to New England?
• 1:34:15
  Yeah. New England is beautiful.
• 1:34:17
  Yeah, absolutely. So I couldn't find where they
• 1:34:22
  met, but on September 30th, 1862, Sarah married William Wert
• 1:34:28
  Winchester. I imagine if she was rich and he
• 1:34:32
  was rich. Well, there.
• 1:34:34
  Yeah, it was arranged. That was the time, wasn't it?
• 1:34:36
  Yeah. I just wrote a note.
• 1:34:41
  There's triple. She took no L's.
• 1:34:44
  Oh my gosh, he was the son of. Oliver.
• 1:34:49
  Winchester, the owner of the Winchester Repeating Arms
• 1:34:53
  Company. The creators of the Winchester
• 1:34:57
  right the Winchester rifle. It's said to.
• 1:35:00
  Be the gun that won the West. So they.
• 1:35:06
  Had one child. Her name was.
• 1:35:08
  Annie Pardi. She unfortunately died about a
• 1:35:13
  month after she was born. A lot of mysteries have.
• 1:35:18
  Tuberculosis in. Yeah.
• 1:35:19
  I'm not sure why. It's very common.
• 1:35:23
  So tuberculosis was just that, Rona.
• 1:35:25
  Yeah, it really was. It was that Rona?
• 1:35:28
  Yes. It was.
• 1:35:29
  I'm sorry, I'm sorry. That's a poor joke.
• 1:35:32
  Oh my God. So of course was the run out of
• 1:35:35
  the. Yeah, of course.
• 1:35:38
  It was a comedy of these times. So William wasn't spared from
• 1:35:43
  the disease and succumbed to it in 1881.
• 1:35:50
  Not a consolation. For having lost her.
• 1:35:52
  Husband, but she did inherit 20.5. $1,000,000.
• 1:36:01
  That's about 500 thirty $600.3 million in today's cash.
• 1:36:10
  It was the entire for chat. Yeah, she got like, no, she got
• 1:36:14
  half of. Well, yeah, she got.
• 1:36:15
  Half of the fortune. No, no, she got the whatever
• 1:36:18
  she's gonna say, Holy Jesus. Also, she did.
• 1:36:21
  That's a lot of money. That means that the.
• 1:36:24
  No. What?
• 1:36:24
  She got half. The family was worth a billion
• 1:36:26
  dollars. What she got half of was the
• 1:36:28
  ownership of the Winchester. Repeating arms company Okay.
• 1:36:31
  So which came with Excuse me, there it.
• 1:36:34
  Goes my voice, which came with a nice income of $1000 a day.
• 1:36:40
  That is $26,852. And $0.29 in today's money.
• 1:36:47
  I love it. You would have been making more
• 1:36:50
  than I make in. A year in a day like I'm fucking
• 1:36:52
  sick when I. Read that I was.
• 1:36:55
  Like the teacher is a thankless and not paying well job.
• 1:37:00
  Y'all my God, they make. Like goodness.
• 1:37:05
  Anyway, so this means our and always were a big business.
• 1:37:11
  Yeah, so this made her one of the.
• 1:37:15
  Wealthiest women in the world One of the wealthiest women in
• 1:37:19
  the world? What year would this have been?
• 1:37:23
  18. I'm missing 18. 8118 That's when
• 1:37:26
  he died. So cuz I'm trying to remember
• 1:37:29
  when Madam CJ Walker was she was born in. 1867 and died in 1919.
• 1:37:37
  She was also one of the most she was like the first black woman
• 1:37:41
  millionaire. So and she's considered to be
• 1:37:45
  one of the most rich women of the time.
• 1:37:48
  And Sarah Winchester is more wealthy than Madam CJ Walker by
• 1:37:53
  a lot. Oh my God.
• 1:37:56
  Freaking crazy. So I imagine there weren't too.
• 1:38:00
  Many women who had that, yeah. But yeah, not the country she's.
• 1:38:05
  Richest in the freaking. Yeah, 500 times more wealthy.
• 1:38:09
  It's crazy. And they live around the same
• 1:38:11
  time. It is crazy.
• 1:38:13
  Oh my God, I I was still sick. About it so I that's just I.
• 1:38:20
  Was like the whole. Round.
• 1:38:22
  Not flat. That's just doing me in fam,
• 1:38:26
  that's. So much money.
• 1:38:29
  Oh my God, it's almost unfathomable.
• 1:38:32
  It's the way that people talk about Jeff Bezos and like he
• 1:38:34
  makes 300. Is it $300,000 a day?
• 1:38:38
  Something crazy? And I'm just like I don't.
• 1:38:41
  Know what that means? Like you're talking about a
• 1:38:43
  billion. But I really don't understand a
• 1:38:45
  billion practically. So for me, a billion and 500
• 1:38:53
  million, same thing. Yeah, basically, I don't
• 1:38:55
  understand exactly. Yeah.
• 1:38:57
  It might as well. It might as well be.
• 1:39:00
  Monopoly money for me, yeah. Cuz I have no idea what's going
• 1:39:03
  on. So of course.
• 1:39:05
  Deeply saddened by the passing of her child and husband.
• 1:39:08
  They did pass 15 years, 15 years apart still.
• 1:39:12
  But yeah, still, that's exactly she does.
• 1:39:17
  When any grieving? Person of that time would do
• 1:39:22
  uhoh, she goes to see a medium. They were all would be so
• 1:39:28
  disappointed. They were all the rage back
• 1:39:30
  then. Side note.
• 1:39:33
  I'm pretty sure that we had that.
• 1:39:36
  We had that fortune. Telling law in PA.
• 1:39:40
  Due to freaking Houdini. You remember when I was telling
• 1:39:42
  you, Remember when I was telling the story about Houdini and how
• 1:39:46
  he got, he kind of got fortune telling outlawed, right?
• 1:39:49
  Yeah. I mean, he was pretty aggressive
• 1:39:51
  about it. Yeah, pretty much lobbying the
• 1:39:54
  government. And I just remember that they
• 1:39:57
  were taking advantage of a very. Public.
• 1:39:59
  This is true. Very true.
• 1:40:02
  And I'm not mad at him. For it, Yeah.
• 1:40:04
  I'm not mad. At Houdini, because I know a
• 1:40:06
  little bit about the story and I feel like Sarah Winchester was
• 1:40:10
  taken advantage of. So this medium.
• 1:40:15
  They tell her that the Winchester family is cursed
• 1:40:19
  because the guns that they made took so many lives.
• 1:40:24
  So the spirits that were killed by the guns were seeking vented,
• 1:40:28
  and in order to kind of save herself from the curse.
• 1:40:32
  Sarah had to build a home for not only herself, but for the
• 1:40:37
  spirits as well. Yeah, basically you're making
• 1:40:42
  money off of our. Desks, like, yeah.
• 1:40:47
  So the medium tells her that. The home was to.
• 1:40:50
  Be situated in the West where the sunsets so with her
• 1:40:56
  belongings and. Inheritance.
• 1:40:59
  That she just, you know. What was that?
• 1:41:02
  Money is no gotten games. She didn't want it, though, to
• 1:41:06
  be honest, she would have. Rather had her.
• 1:41:08
  Husband, Yeah, absolutely. She moves from New Haven.
• 1:41:11
  Connecticut to San Jose, CA where she purchased an
• 1:41:16
  unfurnished 8 room farmhouse, the house used to.
• 1:41:21
  Be yeah, the house. Used to only have 8:00 rooms,
• 1:41:24
  only 8 rooms. I'll tell you later how many
• 1:41:28
  rooms it has, I was thinking. So that that that would be
• 1:41:32
  enough for anybody. Right, just 8 rooms.
• 1:41:34
  Maybe in their spirits, the spirits can have a room by
• 1:41:36
  themselves. And you know, yeah, there you
• 1:41:39
  go. It's only me.
• 1:41:41
  Yeah, but I guess if your housing goes, they, you know,
• 1:41:44
  you gotta. Gotta have some.
• 1:41:46
  Make some renovations. So she hired carpenters,
• 1:41:50
  builders and laborers, and they worked basically day and night
• 1:41:56
  on this house. Now I like I said, I remember
• 1:42:01
  that I've. I've seen multiple things about
• 1:42:03
  this. How do you sleep?
• 1:42:07
  And how's your? Your That's constantly under
• 1:42:09
  construction. Pretty easily.
• 1:42:11
  My uncle, my grand uncle, he actually.
• 1:42:13
  Does like house flipping and stuff like that?
• 1:42:15
  Well, just cuz like, you know, when there's been construction
• 1:42:18
  or them working on something out in front of my building, I find
• 1:42:22
  it very bothersome. I don't know.
• 1:42:24
  I can sleep like the dead so. I definitely noticed that.
• 1:42:30
  They are making sounds at like 6:00 AM.
• 1:42:37
  So they worked and worked on it until it was a.
• 1:42:40
  Seven Story Mansion. Cool, right?
• 1:42:43
  I didn't know it was seven stories it.
• 1:42:45
  Was seven stories. Oh geez.
• 1:42:46
  Wait, was it was 7? When was it 7 stories?
• 1:42:51
  Back when they first built it. Interesting, cuz it's not that
• 1:42:54
  big now, no? There's there's a reason why.
• 1:42:59
  Well, since Sarah didn't use any type of architect, the house no,
• 1:43:05
  the house was built pretty haphazardly.
• 1:43:07
  Wait. Wait.
• 1:43:07
  Wait. Wait.
• 1:43:08
  Wait, wait, wait. I've seen pictures of this place
• 1:43:10
  and it looks. Very beautifully done.
• 1:43:12
  She just picked some random folks from the 1900s Home Depot.
• 1:43:18
  Yeah, basically. And wait, here you go.
• 1:43:21
  Well. Actually, she'd have.
• 1:43:22
  She had a plan. For like the house in.
• 1:43:25
  As that plan came from her spirit friends.
• 1:43:28
  Oh, yes. Yes.
• 1:43:30
  OK. Because the ghost is a good
• 1:43:32
  Arctic attack. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 1:43:35
  But based on how the rooms. Were built.
• 1:43:37
  I'm Pretty Little if you on how or on I'm a little if you on if
• 1:43:44
  She got all of it from the ghost.
• 1:43:46
  Right So we're getting that way too.
• 1:43:48
  It looks beautiful. It is.
• 1:43:50
  It's a. Wonderful looking house, like I
• 1:43:53
  love a good Victorian. So that's.
• 1:43:55
  On top of the whole ghost thing, I would want to look at it just
• 1:43:57
  because it's pretty. Yeah, I know, right?
• 1:43:59
  I'll go into the specs of the house a little later.
• 1:44:04
  Or is it a Victorian? Am I right?
• 1:44:05
  I think it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:44:08
  So when it was all. Said and done the.
• 1:44:11
  Had 161 rooms in it. Sarah was.
• 1:44:17
  So determined to finish the mansion.
• 1:44:18
  That she lived almost solitude so.
• 1:44:22
  No, no one lived with her. She only people that were around
• 1:44:24
  her were the construction workers or the workers that she
• 1:44:27
  hired. Well, now one thing that I did
• 1:44:29
  hear about her is that she stayed in mourning her whole
• 1:44:31
  life, didn't she? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:44:33
  Cuz she always wore black. The black veil, she always wore
• 1:44:35
  black. Yep.
• 1:44:37
  So you know. That was, I guess, in.
• 1:44:39
  What honor of her husband, Yeah. Terrible.
• 1:44:43
  Maybe it was for her. Or maybe for the spirits that
• 1:44:47
  you know that's true. Out of respect for them, Yeah.
• 1:44:53
  I mean, I wear black all the time anyway.
• 1:44:55
  So I'm always in mourning as well, across from you also
• 1:44:58
  wearing. Mostly black.
• 1:45:01
  We're both in mourning for what? Who?
• 1:45:04
  We're mourning. Something, My goodness, okay.
• 1:45:06
  So that was such a dark thought. Okay, Gen.
• 1:45:09
  Z, Brian. My God.
• 1:45:14
  Not. Cracking jokes on y'all I find
• 1:45:16
  Gen. Z humor to be it's pretty
• 1:45:19
  wonderful. It's pretty nice whenever one.
• 1:45:20
  Of my coworkers is just like talking about like I hope I can
• 1:45:26
  get by a bus. I don't have to come.
• 1:45:27
  Into work tomorrow. I love it.
• 1:45:29
  I think it's hilarious. I mean, we're millennials, so we
• 1:45:32
  kind of we get that. We get that shit.
• 1:45:35
  It's just super funny. It's just it's just bad that
• 1:45:38
  y'all a younger generation. Like, it's feeling like that.
• 1:45:40
  Yeah. Like, why are y'all so
• 1:45:41
  depressed? I'm sorry, it was like we kind
• 1:45:44
  of did this to you, but hope for the future.
• 1:45:46
  No. Fuck that shit.
• 1:45:48
  Oh my God. Oh goodness.
• 1:45:53
  September 5th, 1922. Sarah passes away in her sleep
• 1:45:57
  due to a heart failure. Exactly.
• 1:46:01
  Yep. She was 83.
• 1:46:02
  Okay, not that young. No, no So.
• 1:46:05
  And when she died, all construction on the House.
• 1:46:07
  Pretty much stopped, right? So now let's get into the.
• 1:46:12
  House cuz there are some. Things I skipped over.
• 1:46:14
  So we're going backwards and going into the house and all the
• 1:46:18
  construction. The only things I know for sure
• 1:46:20
  is that there's a seance room and it's still there, and that
• 1:46:24
  it's not as many rooms there now as you said, because they
• 1:46:27
  recently found like the 101st room like 2 summers ago and they
• 1:46:32
  didn't know where, like they legitimately were, like, look, a
• 1:46:35
  new room. And I think that's so weird, cuz
• 1:46:38
  it's been like a monument for decades.
• 1:46:41
  Yeah, yeah. Historical site, that's what I
• 1:46:44
  mean. Not.
• 1:46:45
  A monument. So it did have 161 rooms.
• 1:46:51
  And it was seven stories, yeah. And.
• 1:46:53
  There are pictures from this time I don't.
• 1:46:55
  Not sure. I think there are.
• 1:46:57
  I'm pretty sure you have. To you have to dig for them.
• 1:46:59
  But I know you're wondering just what's all behind those doors
• 1:47:03
  and those 161 rooms. Well, this 24,000 square foot
• 1:47:09
  mansion includes 40 bathrooms, 2 ballrooms and 9 kitchens and a
• 1:47:16
  St. Hunt's room.
• 1:47:18
  Saint Hunt's room was called the Witch's Cap.
• 1:47:20
  Which is where you know she would Sarah would go to get her
• 1:47:25
  plans. It's it's from scrolling.
• 1:47:28
  It looks like a fancy mansion that a rich person like in
• 1:47:32
  today's time would own. Yeah, if this is.
• 1:47:37
  So how many square feet? Again 24,000.
• 1:47:43
  Again, as we sit in my 400 square foot apt.
• 1:47:46
  I don't understand what that means in real words.
• 1:47:50
  In real terms. I don't think I've ever been in
• 1:47:53
  a house that bad. Wait, I think I've.
• 1:47:57
  Been something close to that. But that's about it.
• 1:48:00
  That sounds like the equivalent of like a stadium.
• 1:48:05
  I maybe have to see how. Fucking Big A.
• 1:48:07
  Stadium is but like on. Her property?
• 1:48:10
  She has like, orchards too, yeah.
• 1:48:14
  So a lot of people go there. They get.
• 1:48:15
  Married too, I. Went on the website.
• 1:48:16
  They have wedding stuff there too, and it's like, what?
• 1:48:20
  There's also a plantation. This is true.
• 1:48:23
  So true. Oh my God, so.
• 1:48:26
  There are also 47 fireplaces, over 10,000 panes of glass, 2000
• 1:48:31
  doors, 52 skylights, 2 basements and three elevators in this
• 1:48:37
  house. Yeah, yeah, that's there it
• 1:48:40
  goes. Coal tower.
• 1:48:42
  There it goes. That's the only one.
• 1:48:44
  I just wanted to see a picture of.
• 1:48:45
  What? It looked like in the past and
• 1:48:49
  as you can. Tell she spared no.
• 1:48:51
  Calls. No calls to spared.
• 1:48:54
  Some of the same glass windows were made by Tiffany.
• 1:48:57
  The Tiffany's are expensive. Yes, yes.
• 1:48:59
  Talking about $1,000,000 window panes, yes, she was not kidding
• 1:49:03
  when. They.
• 1:49:04
  She listen. They spent the money, those told
• 1:49:06
  me. Build a house.
• 1:49:07
  But they didn't say it had to be a a crappy house, right?
• 1:49:11
  I can still be booed. Like I got a living here too.
• 1:49:13
  Might as well look. Just so sad to think of her
• 1:49:17
  living in that big place. All along, I know.
• 1:49:19
  Really terrible. I'm pretty sure she had like,
• 1:49:21
  you know. Servants, probably servants.
• 1:49:25
  But still, she didn't have, like, any boyfriend.
• 1:49:29
  No family, nothing. Yeah, family.
• 1:49:31
  She. Just lived in a big old
• 1:49:34
  Victorian dress, but it spray with a black thing over her eyes
• 1:49:38
  all the time. It's terrible.
• 1:49:39
  It's so sad. It's terrible.
• 1:49:44
  So inside this beast. Of a mansion there are.
• 1:49:48
  Also, stairways that lead to nowhere.
• 1:49:51
  Yep, right into the roof rooms. You can open the doors too.
• 1:49:57
  But it just leads you to a brick wall.
• 1:50:00
  I like the one that's just a straight up drop.
• 1:50:02
  Yeah, yeah, they're trap doors in.
• 1:50:06
  Spy holes, of course. Secret passageways in big rooms
• 1:50:11
  with small rooms inside of them. Okay.
• 1:50:13
  So what if what if? Oh my gosh, you could have a
• 1:50:16
  slumber party there. Yes.
• 1:50:22
  I don't think they let people sleep there because when Shama
• 1:50:26
  Day and Ryan Bergueira went, they only got to be there at
• 1:50:31
  night. They didn't sleep there.
• 1:50:34
  I would. So I don't know if they let you
• 1:50:35
  sleep there, but I just. Think that would be super fun?
• 1:50:37
  That would be awesome. I think because of how expensive
• 1:50:39
  all the chandeliers and stuff are, they wouldn't trust people
• 1:50:42
  to stay there. I mean, it makes sense normally.
• 1:50:44
  Like when they let you stay at a place, it's garbage.
• 1:50:47
  It's very true. Like all the old, you know?
• 1:50:49
  Yes, sanitariums or trashed. Sure, you can stay here.
• 1:50:54
  They're overcoming with freaking wilderness.
• 1:50:56
  Why not? You can stay here all night if
• 1:50:57
  you want. To fancy houses with Tiffany
• 1:51:00
  chandeliers and windows. You may not stay here.
• 1:51:02
  You can do your ghost hunt and get the hell out.
• 1:51:06
  I'm sorry that. Characterization is me, not the
• 1:51:09
  Westchester Mystery House. I'm sure they're very nice
• 1:51:14
  people, so. Like I said this.
• 1:51:18
  The spirits would. They, you know, they gave Sarah.
• 1:51:19
  Her plans, Right. And that's she got those from
• 1:51:22
  her little seances. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:51:24
  But she would also add in. These little additions like the
• 1:51:31
  so that. She could.
• 1:51:33
  You know confuse the spirits that were that was talking her
• 1:51:36
  and you know they were out for vengeance so you know they and
• 1:51:39
  that's why it moved around like she would build A room and then
• 1:51:42
  destroy it. There's just a lot of
• 1:51:45
  construction going on, Ghost. You thought this was a bathroom
• 1:51:48
  psych brick wall on your face. Even though ghosts can go
• 1:51:54
  through. But whatever.
• 1:51:55
  Yeah, who cares? She.
• 1:51:59
  Really loved the number 13. Right.
• 1:52:01
  A lot of the things you see in her in the house.
• 1:52:04
  There there's a lot of 13 things, right?
• 1:52:07
  I've heard that during the tour they, like, encourage you to
• 1:52:09
  count the stuff. Yeah, like the stairs, there are
• 1:52:11
  a lot of stair of stairways. Or staircases.
• 1:52:14
  They have 13 stairs. The ones that I've I've seen
• 1:52:17
  pictures of are like the long stairs, which I find to be
• 1:52:21
  annoying. Like instead of it being a
• 1:52:23
  normal step distance, yeah, it's like a foot across or like 2
• 1:52:27
  feet long. And what is the point So you can
• 1:52:31
  have more beats, more people walking the stairs?
• 1:52:33
  What's? The point of a stairwell.
• 1:52:36
  That's that. Long it just has to be like
• 1:52:39
  horizontal stairway goodness. Art is also.
• 1:52:45
  Like, really tight corridors too.
• 1:52:47
  Yeah, if you're counting. There are also 13 bathrooms.
• 1:52:54
  See. Yeah, now why is she like was
• 1:52:57
  her her liking of 13? Cuz she liked it.
• 1:53:00
  I think it's the same way. Why I like 13 cuz it's just a
• 1:53:02
  the creepy number. That and it's just a nice.
• 1:53:06
  It's a lucky number. Too, sometimes it's already,
• 1:53:08
  Look, it's hard to be lucky. Well, yeah, depending on what
• 1:53:10
  culture you're in. Absolutely isn't like for an
• 1:53:13
  unlucky number in like China. Somewhere I actually meant to
• 1:53:16
  make a tick. Talk about that.
• 1:53:16
  I forgot all about that. God.
• 1:53:17
  Damn it. Anyway, so in either 19 oh. 6 or
• 1:53:22
  1904. I got different sources.
• 1:53:25
  So there's an earthquake in California.
• 1:53:28
  Yeah, the big earthquake, yeah, which damaged.
• 1:53:31
  The house causing the top three floors.
• 1:53:33
  To collapse. And at the end of it, they
• 1:53:38
  weren't built, They weren't rebuilt.
• 1:53:40
  So that left the mansion with only four stories.
• 1:53:43
  That's the seven stories. That's the big.
• 1:53:45
  That's the San Francisco one that like set San Francisco on
• 1:53:48
  fire. Yeah, that's that.
• 1:53:49
  That's that big. I guess it wait, I must add up
• 1:53:51
  some pretty. Serious reverberations of it.
• 1:53:53
  Was that that one? Well, that's the one that
• 1:53:55
  happened in 19. Okay then yes, that's just so I
• 1:53:59
  was like there. Was a big one in the early 1900s
• 1:54:01
  that like, racked San Francisco. Like everything fell down.
• 1:54:07
  That's that one then. OK, wow.
• 1:54:09
  And. What city is this one in?
• 1:54:11
  I'm gonna say San Jose. California.
• 1:54:16
  OK, so San Francisco to San Jose, How far away is that?
• 1:54:24
  Come on. Google tell me the mile would
• 1:54:28
  that's 50 miles away. Oh yeah, so.
• 1:54:30
  Yeah, it definitely that's, yeah.
• 1:54:31
  I mean, it was like I said it's. One of the worst California
• 1:54:34
  earthquakes. But to be able to knock down
• 1:54:37
  buildings 55 miles away, that's intense.
• 1:54:41
  I mean, remember that we had an earthquake, like, years.
• 1:54:44
  And years ago, that was in California.
• 1:54:46
  But we fell all the way in fucking Philadelphia.
• 1:54:48
  Wait, was that really that? No, it wasn't that one.
• 1:54:51
  But when was it I was in? School, right?
• 1:54:55
  I was in school then. Like Colonary Art School and
• 1:55:00
  2010, 2011, I think it was there was an earthquake in California.
• 1:55:06
  You felt it all wait in Philadelphia and because
• 1:55:10
  everything was like shaking and we were like, what the hell was?
• 1:55:12
  That and. Then they ended class early.
• 1:55:13
  It was like it was an earthquake.
• 1:55:16
  Apparently it was on one of those fault lines that, you
• 1:55:19
  know, you could fill it, but I was just really, I googled
• 1:55:22
  California earthquake felt on East Coast.
• 1:55:25
  Yeah, and it. Hmm.
• 1:55:31
  Maybe I got the wrong information.
• 1:55:32
  Well, no, there was there. Was an earthquake that happened
• 1:55:36
  on the East Coast. Yeah, because it broke the, the
• 1:55:40
  giant obelisk in Washington, It's, I think it's called the
• 1:55:43
  Washington Monument. It's, I know it's an obelisk.
• 1:55:46
  It's an obelisk. I listen.
• 1:55:48
  I know certain words. Here I am using 15th grade
• 1:55:53
  words, but I can't remember the name of the monument.
• 1:55:55
  Yes. Or is I think my 25?
• 1:55:59
  Dollar words, but I'm forgetting basic stuff.
• 1:56:01
  But yeah, it's the Washington Monument.
• 1:56:03
  It cracked. It's it's been cracked.
• 1:56:04
  It was like the made. Oh, that's like the. 2012. 2013,
• 1:56:11
  around the time I remember, because I was on the phone with
• 1:56:14
  somebody and I was sitting in my bed and the TV started shaking
• 1:56:17
  and I I literally said to him on the phone, is this an
• 1:56:21
  earthquake? And then, apparently, everyone
• 1:56:25
  started. Calling each other and the cell
• 1:56:27
  phone towers got overloaded and I couldn't talk to anybody for
• 1:56:30
  like 15 minutes. Yeah, and that was when I lived
• 1:56:33
  in Philadelphia. So that.
• 1:56:34
  Sounds like I remember that one. Is that the same one?
• 1:56:37
  I know this happened in like 2010, 2011 so.
• 1:56:40
  That's because that's when I was in a Colony art school.
• 1:56:42
  That's the only reason why. I know we were there two, but we
• 1:56:46
  in Philadelphia at the same time?
• 1:56:47
  Probably fun. We didn't know each other.
• 1:56:51
  Oh my goodness. Anyway.
• 1:56:53
  Back to the story. I'm so.
• 1:56:55
  Sorry yo, we are off of rails tonight.
• 1:56:57
  Goodness, the man is when we start the podcast late.
• 1:57:00
  This is. True, late in the day, we're all
• 1:57:02
  wound up. So the mansion was showed.
• 1:57:05
  Shortly after Sarah's death. Like a couple months after she
• 1:57:09
  died, the mansion was sold to John and Main Brown.
• 1:57:17
  Like in five months after her death, John opened the house to
• 1:57:22
  the public for tours. I thought you were gonna tell me
• 1:57:25
  that something bad happened to him.
• 1:57:27
  No, I was ready for it even. Our boy Harry Houdini was there.
• 1:57:33
  To take it, check it out because he was on his spiritualism tour.
• 1:57:38
  He was there to prove that there were no ghosts, basically, that
• 1:57:41
  the mediums were bullshit. Basically, he was, you know, he
• 1:57:45
  was there to expose. Spiritualism for the fraud it
• 1:57:47
  was, anyway. He didn't know what to make of
• 1:57:50
  the house, and like he walked away with like more.
• 1:57:55
  Questions than answer. Because it was just like a weird
• 1:57:58
  ass house to him. And he gave it the name.
• 1:58:01
  The Winchester Mystery House. Really.
• 1:58:04
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:58:05
  What did he He gave it that moniker.
• 1:58:08
  Wow. I never knew sorry.
• 1:58:10
  And then went with that Harry. Houdini.
• 1:58:14
  That's for boy, that is. My boy.
• 1:58:17
  God damn it. That was just a personal joke
• 1:58:23
  between us and Hams. That's pretty much it so.
• 1:58:28
  Over the years since. Since the.
• 1:58:30
  Mansion became an attraction. Visitors and staff have
• 1:58:35
  reported. Encounters.
• 1:58:38
  Yes, like footsteps when no one's in there in the room.
• 1:58:42
  Strange voices, doors banging, strange lights, doorknobs
• 1:58:47
  turning by themselves just playing creepy stuff.
• 1:58:51
  The worst part about like a door banging, like here, small
• 1:58:54
  apartment, The door closes and I'm like, Yup, there you go,
• 1:58:57
  that's the ghost. You're in that place.
• 1:58:59
  What door is banging? What direction do I even go
• 1:59:02
  towards? You just let it go.
• 1:59:03
  You gotta just let it go. Yeah, imagine it, Echo.
• 1:59:05
  You just gotta. Let it go.
• 1:59:07
  I imagine being the. Security guard there would be
• 1:59:10
  rough, yeah. But you have to have one, yeah.
• 1:59:14
  True, this is also a great. Place for mediums or psychics to
• 1:59:20
  come. Goodness gracious, gotcha.
• 1:59:24
  Yeah, psychics to come and put their two cents in.
• 1:59:27
  Test it out. Yeah, I'm sure they all
• 1:59:31
  experience. Sarah Winchester.
• 1:59:32
  Ohh, I'm sure they do. Everyone talks to Sarah.
• 1:59:36
  They you know what my hope is. I hope she.
• 1:59:39
  Passed like I hope she passed on to whatever ohh I got you
• 1:59:44
  afterlife that there is and she. Really isn't there at her house?
• 1:59:47
  Just walking around sad. Yeah, 100 years later.
• 1:59:51
  Goodness. But they have said.
• 1:59:54
  That there are. Spirits there at the house, and
• 1:59:59
  one in particular is Sarah Winchester.
• 2:00:02
  I hope not. The Hall of Fires.
• 2:00:06
  Is a good spot. To visit if you want to
• 2:00:09
  experience something paranormal named for all the fireplaces in
• 2:00:13
  it, right? Okay.
• 2:00:15
  I have heard of that before, so a man was in the room helping
• 2:00:19
  with. The renovations or to restore it
• 2:00:21
  when he feels a tap on his shoulder turns around?
• 2:00:25
  No one's there. He's like, huh, weird.
• 2:00:28
  Turns back around to go back to work and he feels this like hand
• 2:00:33
  on on his back was pushing him like very hard into his back and
• 2:00:38
  then he's just like, you know what?
• 2:00:42
  I think they need help in. That other room, so.
• 2:00:45
  I'm just gonna go down. The hall or.
• 2:00:46
  I mean, he did exactly what the ghost wanted.
• 2:00:48
  The ghost was like, get out. There's an old worker there.
• 2:00:55
  His name is Clyde and he's a ghost.
• 2:00:59
  And he hangs out in the basement, right?
• 2:01:01
  That is where Ryan and Shane both did their little solo ghost
• 2:01:07
  thing. Ooh.
• 2:01:10
  In the basement, so. This mansion is.
• 2:01:16
  Open for tours this year. I'm saying yeah, like I could go
• 2:01:22
  to San. Jose, they have it.
• 2:01:26
  Deviates a lot. From when it was like just
• 2:01:30
  giving tours about it, it like nowadays they have axe throwing
• 2:01:34
  at the at the table. Oh no, listen, axe throwing was
• 2:01:37
  awesome. There's a freaking Harry Houdini
• 2:01:40
  escape room theme. Thing going on there.
• 2:01:42
  So I mean, they gotta make their money.
• 2:01:44
  Yeah, like it's been like it's become a lot more.
• 2:01:48
  Than a spooky. Insanely built house.
• 2:01:51
  It's just like it's actually like an attraction now for
• 2:01:54
  people to go to and if they wanna do, I just wanna see the
• 2:01:59
  architecture. Yeah, I just wanna.
• 2:02:01
  Also, she had a thing for Spider.
• 2:02:02
  Webs and a lot of if you go there and look, a lot of the
• 2:02:07
  windows, there's a lot of spider web designs.
• 2:02:10
  Cool as well. But you have a kindred spirit.
• 2:02:15
  I know, right? Spiders. #13 Harry Houdini came
• 2:02:19
  to my house. Not really.
• 2:02:21
  I wish. But you can.
• 2:02:25
  Go there and pretend to be Sarah Winchester.
• 2:02:27
  There you go, Harry. What are you?
• 2:02:30
  Talking about Ghost, no. Ghost anyway.
• 2:02:33
  That's what I got today. I like that one.
• 2:02:38
  Goodness, I love the I I would. Love to visit?
• 2:02:41
  It's still on my list of places to go.
• 2:02:42
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely that and even even going to.
• 2:02:45
  California to visit Mr. Or is it California?
• 2:02:48
  Is it in Las Vegas? Which?
• 2:02:50
  What? The mansion?
• 2:02:54
  Not to Mansion Museum by. Oh, you mean Zach Bagan's
• 2:02:58
  museum? Yeah, that museum.
• 2:02:59
  It's in Vegas. OK.
• 2:03:01
  I go to Vegas one day. You go and visit, I guess.
• 2:03:04
  Just to see. I don't want to see the dolls
• 2:03:06
  there and then look at his stupid.
• 2:03:09
  Stuff and not has like the mirrors and.
• 2:03:11
  Stuff he has the. Dibic box there too, I thought.
• 2:03:15
  He only got to wait. I think it's there.
• 2:03:19
  I'm pretty sure it's there. I know that he got to open the
• 2:03:22
  dibic box, which you're not supposed to do.
• 2:03:24
  Why would you do? But I thought the man who owned.
• 2:03:27
  It keeps it secure like he buries.
• 2:03:31
  It like he has not taken it out. I'm not sure.
• 2:03:34
  I think I did hear that. It was either that or something
• 2:03:37
  that he had there. It might have been like an
• 2:03:40
  exhibit for a short amount of time, yeah.
• 2:03:44
  But. I had to look into that.
• 2:03:45
  Anyway, thank you guys. For listening this week, if you
• 2:03:49
  wanted to follow this on Socials, you got Britney
• 2:03:53
  Podcast. I'm on TikTok and I am Creeps
• 2:03:56
  for Brian. I've been trying to post more
• 2:03:57
  stuff on there. So yeah, check it out.
• 2:03:59
  I got more shit, I got what is it?
• 2:04:02
  What am I doing? Scripted or urban legends in
• 2:04:05
  your state. So yeah, that's cool.
• 2:04:08
  And most of our socials you can. Find the links to.
• 2:04:10
  On our website wentkillersgotcaught.com Yes,
• 2:04:14
  yes and if you listened this. Whole 2 hours.
• 2:04:17
  Thank you so much. We do appreciate it.