Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart & Simon Exton about their choice of The Web Planet (6/6)

Transcript

Talks to Si Hart & Simon Exton about their choice of The Web Planet (6/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:01
  Hello, and welcome back to hamster with a blunt.
• 0:04
  Penknife the Doctor Who Parliament there, hello, and
• 0:08
  welcome, babe. Back to hamster with a blunt
• 0:10
  penknife the Doctor Who commentary podcast and this
• 0:15
  episode, we find Simon extra reflecting on the moral
• 0:17
  implications of colonial colonialism inherent in this
• 0:21
  story. Sigh hard is reflecting on the
• 0:24
  transient nature of life and beauty and Joe Ford is
• 0:27
  reflecting the nine moons of waters off of his ass.
• 0:34
  Welcome to the center. This is where Planet episode 60
• 0:39
  you said you didn't Inspire 45 second we just hear that ways 5.
• 0:42
  Okay, so I heart is feeling sorry for them in optra.
• 0:47
  Joe Ford is feeling a bizarre be and Simon Exon is feeling bit
• 0:49
  grubby Kuwait. See what you do for the time it
• 0:57
  will involve am. Okay, here we are.
• 1:04
  They exciting climax of the web planet.
• 1:07
  Where everything is about to come to a head?
• 1:09
  Are you gentlemen ready to watch this thing?
• 1:11
  Oh, yes! Okay.
• 1:13
  The doctor and Vicki are a bit spunky.
• 1:16
  I'll count, as in, in 5 4, 3 2 1.
• 1:23
  Now I have a question from our dear friend and co-host of this
• 1:29
  thing, Fraser Gregory Whilst it and got the bloody I was his
• 1:34
  question. So are you here we go right you
• 1:36
  ready? Dennis Spooner underrated hero
• 1:40
  or villain who made the show to light entertainment discuss
• 1:45
  Simon? Definitely not villain.
• 1:50
  I'm not sure he's underrated because I don't know many people
• 1:56
  who don't like his stuff, but his stories are great.
• 2:05
  So I don't think he's great. I've it think he kind of
• 2:12
  humanizes the show a little, I'm I think his attention to detail
• 2:16
  on on characters is is different to David Whitaker's.
• 2:20
  So he's got a bit more of a populist touch, I think.
• 2:23
  And so you do get increased humor in the stories which I
• 2:27
  think does make a difference to the show so I think see I'm
• 2:32
  season. One is brilliant and wonderful.
• 2:35
  But at times it can be a bit po-faced.
• 2:38
  Yeah. A bit over serious.
• 2:40
  And here is a lever. Yeah.
• 2:43
  And so I've been him coming in and he's got good attention to
• 2:47
  the characters, I think as well. So he just sort of humanizes it
• 2:52
  all and just lips it a little and I think his his dialogue
• 2:57
  sings and is a lot more soluble than some of the If that they've
• 3:03
  done in season 1, oh by the way. Sorry I think I've killed Caesar
• 3:08
  Nero. Only had the one liner down.
• 3:11
  Pat yeah look at Hartnell at that point.
• 3:15
  It's what have I got on my face? Yeah.
• 3:19
  How's my career come to this point you, by all accounts, he
• 3:23
  absolutely was riding high on the popularity of this show.
• 3:26
  This point particular by this point.
• 3:29
  Before we lose, Jackie Blaine at Jackie.
• 3:32
  Jackie. He Hill and William Russell.
• 3:34
  So he's really comfortable the shows getting record numbers.
• 3:39
  They're having a fortnum & Mason hamper every week when they're
• 3:41
  filming. I mean, he's living the high
• 3:43
  life and Look Vicky still got no hair.
• 3:50
  Yeah, and dripping down into her eye Paul.
• 3:53
  Gill, I hate it. When you step into a cobweb like
• 3:56
  that, you know, it's really grow clings to you.
• 4:01
  Yeah, I do have another to add extra Vaseline.
• 4:03
  This way did this? And I have to say, I think at
• 4:08
  this point we've got one of the best Tardis teams that that were
• 4:14
  ever on the screen. Yeah, I would agree.
• 4:17
  They work so well together. Yeah.
• 4:19
  There're their arrival to really classic teams like the doctrine,
• 4:25
  Sarah, Jane, false Doctrine and Lila, but I think like, they're
• 4:30
  the sort of characters that you can just hang with.
• 4:34
  We just hang with them at the beginning.
• 4:35
  My Romans, we just hang with them at the beginning of the
• 4:37
  chase, as of this story as well. Yeah, yeah.
• 4:43
  Having fun with that. Zombie.
• 4:46
  How many artists? I don't know if this is a scene
• 4:49
  I'd have on with a non-fan around, I'm gonna say that,
• 4:52
  okay? They're dancing around.
• 4:56
  If you don't see it in context, it looks ridiculous.
• 5:00
  But actually, as part of the story, it's fine point of
• 5:06
  classic who in that, that regards.
• 5:08
  Yeah, pull things out. And you don't see it as part of
• 5:12
  the whole then. Yeah, it's not going to.
• 5:14
  It's going to look. Ridiculous.
• 5:16
  They pull that that scene of Might include that us.
• 5:19
  Snake dance all the time don't they are terrific performance.
• 5:24
  Yeah and that again that works as part of the story.
• 5:29
  That's a tiny little bit of corridor but it just looks
• 5:33
  fantastic. Yeah.
• 5:36
  And it look at these will all of these sort of vines and tweaks.
• 5:41
  They're coming out of the walls. Yeah, thank you.
• 5:44
  That's the word I was looking for and it was just sort of a
• 5:51
  nice little spur a going on the basket.
• 5:53
  Yes no its water. That's right because there's no
• 5:59
  water on the surface Carson. Oh ah ah so when the Animus dies
• 6:05
  comes back Yeah, right up, stop it.
• 6:08
  I'll stop singing that song from Rosa because it's, it's pulls.
• 6:12
  A formic acid, isn't it? Yeah, we must talk about.
• 6:17
  I just love that sitting up. So glad you know, he's losses,
• 6:21
  tie in the acid. Pool is great.
• 6:25
  Oh, look at that. Little fuzzy felt alms but that
• 6:28
  is fuzzy. Felt I haven't thought about
• 6:30
  fuzzy felt for years. I just used it to grab my
• 6:36
  gloves, who Creations when I was a kid, you know?
• 6:39
  I'm seriously. So Whitaker script edited before
• 6:45
  us. Yeah.
• 6:46
  And whilst script edits after this, no, no, Donald Tosh, Tosh
• 6:52
  wild with producer. And again, that's a sharp.
• 6:56
  Turn tone, isn't it? Yeah.
• 6:59
  Oh, yeah, but not as much as he wanted.
• 7:02
  Apparently he wanted it. He wanted to even talk and even
• 7:06
  weirder Toby, hey, goat says. That the William Hartnell here
• 7:11
  Doctor Who is like the weirdest not whoever got in terms of
• 7:15
  Landscapes and in terms of Storytelling and sound effects,
• 7:19
  I think you agree with that. You think the show kind of takes
• 7:23
  a more traditional science fiction route.
• 7:26
  After we hit trance time? I think it always sounds weird,
• 7:32
  particularly, through the 60s. It always sounds odd.
• 7:35
  Having Brian Hodgson is one of The Unsung, Uses who worked on
• 7:40
  the show because his sound effects make these, these places
• 7:46
  seem order than even the visuals are.
• 7:50
  So you've got all the chirping of the zombie, which can be
• 7:54
  annoying after a little while, but it's a weird and strange
• 7:59
  sounds that you wouldn't hear anywhere else.
• 8:01
  And you've got things like the Chumley's that make the sound of
• 8:07
  galaxies for which is a very Standard tail.
• 8:09
  But that makes it just that little bit stranger and weirder
• 8:14
  all through the 60s. His effects work is amazing
• 8:18
  noise, the white robots and their work Soldiers, the sort of
• 8:23
  vision I've just don't like in this era.
• 8:26
  Anything goes in the heart of the we're up and then in the
• 8:29
  fountain era, you know, any case Under Siege goes yeah because
• 8:33
  they they work out a formula that that works and then they
• 8:36
  repeat it and repeat it and repeat it.
• 8:39
  And they're looking at their resources.
• 8:41
  So in this Lloyd is a very good producer from that point of view
• 8:44
  because he works out there, if you have a big set you can use
• 8:47
  it for you can use four or six weeks money to make a really
• 8:51
  impressive set and then Center that all the action around that.
• 8:56
  But it limits the kind of stories that you can tell.
• 8:59
  And so you're getting a repeat of the same same story and so
• 9:04
  suddenly Doctor Who's got a formula, the monsters are coming
• 9:06
  in and you're all trapped. And that's it.
• 9:10
  You know what I think is the most oldest sort of diverse
• 9:13
  period of Storytelling after this, I think it's, he's 19.
• 9:17
  Yeah. When you get Castro valve at
• 9:18
  Kinder of shock Black Orchid the visitation but they're so
• 9:24
  totally different. Oh here we go and time flies,
• 9:28
  just weird at the end of it all. We're now in the Animas and I
• 9:33
  now I feel like I'm watching an art House movie.
• 9:39
  This is yeah, that says he's got tiny but it looks fantastic.
• 9:42
  Yeah, and we've got 2 episode 6 of the story and this is a
• 9:47
  brand-new set suddenly that has come from nowhere and always do
• 9:52
  that and that brand new alien. Yeah, look at that thing that's
• 9:57
  ghoulish is three and it's kind of floppy and unknowable and and
• 10:03
  strange. And again, It just fits.
• 10:06
  Fortas, doesn't it? Yeah.
• 10:07
  And it's interesting that Vicky the one that they've got
• 10:09
  standing up to it at this point, we're just gone in with the
• 10:13
  doctor and the doctor has collapsed almost immediately and
• 10:16
  it's Vicky. That's doing the Standing
• 10:20
  subsistence. Let's keep going.
• 10:23
  And she makes the explicit reference to a spider.
• 10:27
  She's a filthy great spider or something like that.
• 10:31
  Josh, have you ever looked at the Animus in the detail of the
• 10:34
  kinetic there? You're right.
• 10:36
  He's a bit unknowable, isn't it? It's a bit.
• 10:38
  You can't quite fit it to anything you've seen before or
• 10:42
  since that's kind of scary. It's almost sort of
• 10:48
  lovecraftian. Yeah.
• 10:51
  In terms of its alienness. Yeah.
• 10:54
  Because when you looked at it, yeah, okay.
• 10:57
  It's round. It has all these legs come over,
• 10:59
  but it doesn't really look spidery.
• 11:02
  Nose, tentacles, and loneliness and Yeah, and the sense that
• 11:07
  it's digging into the ground and its roots are spreading
• 11:12
  underneath tortoise as well and they're pulling parts of it off
• 11:15
  while he and his climbing up, marvelous, did you guys see
• 11:20
  that? How gorgeous is a slit when he
• 11:23
  was climbing up, those roots? His trousers mr.
• 11:26
  Kenya man, he's so pretty and want to select from both angles.
• 11:33
  I'm strangely guys are when I, when I was young and a doctor
• 11:37
  who fan, he seems so old compared to all the other
• 11:41
  companions. Now, exactly seem so young.
• 11:47
  I comes was older. Oh yeah.
• 11:52
  Oh my God. Look it's wrapping his tentacles
• 11:54
  around their arms. He's creepy stuff.
• 12:00
  They have the doctor incapacitated and he's usually
• 12:03
  the one who is doing this stuff. Inhale, it's comes in with the
• 12:09
  cars alone, I stopped hope. What's the Karzai?
• 12:14
  That's that is currently. Also them is its home. yeah,
• 12:22
  this is the bit where it and it's at this point in episode 6
• 12:25
  that it's explaining what the plot was going to be that it It
• 12:32
  wanted to to take from his brain, all they'd get the
• 12:38
  information. They just said that zombies
• 12:42
  sensor wounded. Now, I'm sorry, we broke it into
• 12:45
  a lot of buildings, but it's never been talking about
• 12:47
  yourself in the third person. Is it just everything about this
• 12:53
  is unusual, but even that the tentacles flailing about the
• 12:56
  island, there's happen to be a pilot for the Animus right now.
• 12:59
  Yeah, people talk about access being this very inventive, one,
• 13:05
  whole organism and and it is but this is their first not as
• 13:12
  explicit but I'll try that astral mapping my living room
• 13:16
  you know it's a nice prop isn't it?
• 13:20
  Lovely. Yeah.
• 13:22
  Okay, so now what they get a corporate attorney turned up
• 13:24
  twice. Yeah.
• 13:27
  Galaxy for okay. But you know dogs who were very
• 13:32
  often doing these Innovations in the Tardis that suddenly get for
• 13:34
  the, like the fault. Locator what happened to that?
• 13:38
  Two big lenders. Hold yo, jettisoned, you got the
• 13:45
  excuse that after Castro Valley her why you never see those
• 13:48
  things again. So are they calling in The
• 13:51
  vanastra Invasion Force? Now, Oh my God.
• 13:56
  That bit. Whether the propeller hisses
• 13:58
  just wondering about going. We're all they've all got off.
• 14:02
  Yep. Only has to rush up and ago.
• 14:04
  It's supposed to be over there. Oh my god.
• 14:07
  Look, he's under the ground. He's underneath it and he's
• 14:11
  about to burst in. Yeah, yeah.
• 14:14
  So it's like it's like flesh, isn't it?
• 14:16
  Yeah. And that feels very are slightly
• 14:19
  claustrophobic. So to me, this would be a bloody
• 14:21
  Nightmare and it's a bit Five Dock.
• 14:24
  Actors where there's one group coming in from the ground level
• 14:30
  of one group coming in from from underneath that there's nobody
• 14:32
  coming in from above, but it was also a bit sort of the Daleks.
• 14:37
  Isn't it? Where they came in from
• 14:38
  different angles way. Behave yourself said nothing.
• 14:45
  There are many angles of attack, dogs news.
• 14:49
  Yeah. And into giving it a good
• 14:50
  product there is literally cutting through flesh right now.
• 14:54
  Yeah. Wow, houses just like the I
• 14:59
  don't think the concepts until we've sort of been discussing
• 15:02
  it. I mean, I hastened to use the
• 15:04
  word intellectually the risk of flattering both but sort of
• 15:08
  pulling it apart. I'm really realizing just have
• 15:11
  staggering sum the concepts are if because it is much clearer in
• 15:16
  the book as well. So if you ever have a chance to
• 15:19
  hear William Russell's amazing reading of it, it's It's amazing
• 15:27
  because we are some of the things that the anima says you
• 15:29
  can interpret it, as the carcinoma is an extension of the
• 15:34
  Animus. Mhm.
• 15:41
  Wow, okay. Does look a bit like a Saturday
• 15:45
  Night Live set, but it really reminds me of Pub.
• 15:49
  There used to be in Liverpool call Barcelona that had walls,
• 15:52
  that were very similar to that are.
• 15:55
  This is great. The, the monocular reaction to
• 15:58
  seeing you at, I mean, they never.
• 15:59
  Yeah, and the lights. Yeah.
• 16:04
  Oh my God, look at the vines around.
• 16:06
  Vicki. Now is this shoot straggling?
• 16:10
  Oh, and she places? What's the female when doctor's
• 16:13
  name hernia? She plays.
• 16:15
  It's really well because there's a sort of like she's almost
• 16:18
  venerating it while she's terrible.
• 16:20
  Yeah. Because they worship the light,
• 16:22
  don't they? In the Temple of Light?
• 16:24
  That's And Linnea is a character that has basically nothing to do
• 16:31
  if she did. She contributes apartment little
• 16:34
  bit of peacemaking she contributes nothing but she is
• 16:37
  so well played. Yes yeah I love this with the
• 16:41
  lights. The lights on Crossing each
• 16:43
  other. You just wouldn't have seen
• 16:46
  anything else like before. Barbara's desperation.
• 16:53
  There, it doesn't work. You know as you decide, you know
• 16:58
  what that looks like that near the Animus was that fucking
• 17:01
  great monster that was on that spaceship in that space 1999.
• 17:05
  Oh yes. Yes it does.
• 17:07
  Yes. T.
• 17:09
  Was it called? I got a dragon's domain.
• 17:11
  I can still maintain its sucks people in and then the skeleton
• 17:18
  Yeah, that was just there. It's just as horrific.
• 17:20
  Wow, look at you see, it was closing in.
• 17:22
  Yeah, and she's Barbara's thrown everything because she's Getting
• 17:28
  close enough, where she has to wear.
• 17:29
  She's becoming overcome, but she's still borrowing away at
• 17:32
  it. Whereas even just turned up
• 17:34
  because it was everything over. Oh late again.
• 17:38
  I mean it would be rude of me to mention I could just see the
• 17:41
  string that was hard. Not the top of that thing there
• 17:43
  but you know, big they wouldn't they probably wouldn't have seen
• 17:47
  that at the time. As my God, this is an artifact
• 17:50
  of the cleaning up and I sing it at a much higher resolution than
• 17:54
  it would have. Been at the time, my good
• 17:56
  friend, Lucy McKay. Cole said the other day, we all
• 17:59
  know it's there anyway. Yeah, yeah.
• 18:01
  Why are you laying that? Bobby your enjoyment.
• 18:04
  And it's it. And here we go.
• 18:05
  We've got the zombie now out of the control of the Animus.
• 18:09
  So they're they're just doing what comes naturally to them.
• 18:13
  We've got gardening happening, I've got water coming back onto
• 18:16
  the planet and it's very like the end of colony in space where
• 18:20
  suddenly you you ripped out the Machinery or the entity that is
• 18:26
  poisoning, the planet and life can come back and suddenly the
• 18:30
  planet will change and it will Bloom and there's just random
• 18:34
  bits that Sonoma on their own in the background?
• 18:37
  Yes, you assume it is because then the whole thing is just
• 18:41
  disintegrating and yet only been resolved.
• 18:44
  Do you love other power dynamics and change between the doctor
• 18:47
  and there's Arbiter. Rushing them away from the
• 18:49
  water, they're like, yeah, the way like a lot of wild cats.
• 18:52
  Yeah. Because of the, this is the
• 18:54
  monopolist planet and Helio is being back to an back to being
• 18:59
  in control, drama. Queen Rick.
• 19:02
  Yeah. The doctor when he gives him the
• 19:06
  ring back. Yeah, that's papillae has all
• 19:09
  such good news, 11, bumblebees, another, they're beautifully
• 19:17
  realized. Yeah, for sure.
• 19:20
  I shall you know, this reminds me of arose with the in The Lion
• 19:22
  King, you know, when everyone's happy and you see the fast
• 19:25
  Pfister of the the landscape, you know, they're all happy in
• 19:28
  nature. This is absolutely blown.
• 19:31
  And this is very rare at this point in the show.
• 19:34
  Where we have an extended NC. So, usually we've got the Tardis
• 19:39
  crew going. And leaving, and that's the end
• 19:44
  of the story. But in this story, we actually
• 19:46
  get a coder without them, which I think might be the first time
• 19:52
  we've seen some of the, what happens on the planet only to a
• 19:58
  small extent after the doctor and Co have gone, which will
• 20:02
  become will see a bit more later on.
• 20:04
  But this is a first for the show.
• 20:07
  Yeah. Yeah, it's lovely as well.
• 20:09
  You know, I think this is probably the ultimate For
• 20:11
  example, here of you can either go with this, or you can just
• 20:16
  write it off as being ridiculous, where he there optra
• 20:21
  takes his eyes or what his hands away from the eyes and start
• 20:24
  starts turn around and go. Yeah, life is good.
• 20:27
  And it's so lovely, and charming and sweet, and it would be so
• 20:30
  easy to point at that see those fuzzy felt arms, flapping and go
• 20:34
  on. This is just absurd.
• 20:36
  But I think it makes no sense because if they've spent enough
• 20:42
  Generations underground that they have mutated the point
• 20:44
  where there are new species, then light wouldn't be good.
• 20:48
  No, as a doctor who fan we can just ride over.
• 20:54
  How observe something looks and just buy into.
• 20:57
  Well they're trying to give us you know I think answer I think
• 21:01
  is just adorable. That's kept.
• 21:03
  Absolutely. I don't think anything in this
• 21:05
  looks absurd. Okay, the book, The Burnham
• 21:08
  grabs. Look a bit Chuck together, but
• 21:10
  all of the others, Look great. I like that's how I feel like
• 21:16
  those Darlings dancing around and evil of the Daleks.
• 21:20
  I love playful monsters. That's great.
• 21:25
  I will you hit this this story made such an impact on the
• 21:29
  audience at the time they were really the next Daleks we they
• 21:34
  got spin-off stuff. What are in the annual Society?
• 21:38
  They were if they were in the first annual, they got a TV
• 21:40
  comic comic strip that started the week after this story
• 21:45
  finished on TV. What's the lair of Tsar
• 21:49
  pre-super? He was from the first Doctor Who
• 21:52
  annual, okay? And they got they got badges.
• 21:56
  They appeared in the Doctor Who project so that you could
• 22:00
  project storm scenes from stories on and all sorts and
• 22:04
  Target will not the aforementioned novelization.
• 22:08
  Yeah, Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:10
  It clear my and, you know, I can't say it enough the ratings,
• 22:14
  you know? Yeah, they held up it wasn't
• 22:16
  like it went off a cliff because it was so weird.
• 22:20
  They stayed So the pretty much through.
• 22:24
  So then I've got a question for you both, which before we give
• 22:28
  our reasons as to why don't you go watch just immediately?
• 22:32
  Why does so many people point at this story and laugh and it does
• 22:39
  happen. It doesn't always have the best
• 22:41
  reputation. Well, we've clearly just spent,
• 22:44
  you know, three hours explaining why it is so much of worth here,
• 22:49
  what is it about this? That is easy to mock.
• 22:51
  Work. Silent.
• 22:55
  I think I think back in the day and certainly when I was first
• 22:59
  involved with with fandom, you didn't get to see stories,
• 23:02
  you've got to see it, see, pictures and read things but I
• 23:06
  mean, I was a fan before any of the VHS is, were released You've
• 23:12
  got to see still images and the the monocular of the optra.
• 23:18
  Do look a bit ridiculous in in the still images.
• 23:22
  And so I think that there was a fan wisdom that this was
• 23:27
  something that looked a bit silly sigh.
• 23:33
  I think it goes back to what we said earlier that as soon as it
• 23:37
  was available on video, everyone binge watched it and watch all
• 23:42
  six episodes in a row and it wasn't designed to be watched
• 23:46
  like that. And actually if you take it
• 23:48
  slower and divide it up even if you just do to Two, two, two and
• 23:52
  two, it works better than trying to watch all six in a row
• 23:57
  because it wasn't meant to be watched like that.
• 23:59
  It's meant to be a slow build up.
• 24:00
  It's meant to be a slow story that you get immersed in and
• 24:05
  trying to watch it all in one go.
• 24:07
  I think would seriously damaged its reputation.
• 24:11
  Yeah, I mean, clearly the best way to watch this is three
• 24:13
  episodes every six months we recently got the best out of
• 24:19
  that way. A ninja of big.
• 24:23
  This ambitious and we will explain how incredibly ambitious
• 24:26
  this is is that you risk alienating a section of your
• 24:31
  audience, that likes things to be a bit safe.
• 24:34
  And people watch procedural shows for a reason, you know
• 24:37
  what you're getting. We get we and even in here is
• 24:41
  the who you kind of know Hinchcliffe?
• 24:42
  You know really what? You're getting great Williams.
• 24:45
  You know what you're getting? This is out there, isn't it?
• 24:48
  Yeah I think there's also to all the audience It's no, not at all
• 24:54
  but I think there's also a tendency within fandom to pick
• 24:58
  out the bits that didn't work. And also it's the story where as
• 25:05
  R&B hits the camera or the Venom grub hits the set, or this
• 25:09
  didn't quite work. And so obviously, it's rubbish
• 25:12
  because of that and it's not necessarily true.
• 25:15
  It's a very reductive way of watching Doctor Who there's a
• 25:19
  lot of people will look at television, that was made.
• 25:22
  What? 65?
• 25:23
  Yeah, I know judge it on the techniques that are used in
• 25:26
  2022, you know, that's just an absurd thing to do.
• 25:30
  Why would you even do that? Very, very strange.
• 25:34
  All right, boys. Well we've had an exciting
• 25:37
  Adventure on planet balls. Yes, we now need to each give
• 25:41
  three reasons. We'll start with PSI and then
• 25:44
  Simon and then me we'll go round and round as to why somebody
• 25:48
  should grab the we're planning on their shelf and watch it
• 25:50
  immediately. Sigh.
• 25:52
  Okay, well for me I'm going to pick episode 1, the web Planet
• 25:58
  because that is just the most bunkers and Brilliant episode
• 26:02
  and just watching. William Russell walking around
• 26:06
  behind, William Hartnell wondering.
• 26:07
  What the hell is going to happen?
• 26:09
  Next gives me such joy and watching William Hartnell
• 26:13
  giggling. His way through exploring an
• 26:15
  alien planet. Yeah.
• 26:17
  That's one of my favorite episodes of Doctor Who I really
• 26:20
  love that episode. Simon.
• 26:25
  I think this is one of the best realized alien planets that that
• 26:31
  was ever in classic Doctor. Who I think it's Inventive.
• 26:37
  And Pretty much unique in certainly in the 60s in terms of
• 26:46
  quite how far it's stretched imagination.
• 26:49
  Both in terms of the realization of the planet and the
• 26:52
  realization of the aliens on it. I'm going to say the
• 26:57
  characterization of the not true characters, which all kind of
• 27:02
  look similar, but you can tell from their body language, their
• 27:06
  characterization and the performances who they are and
• 27:10
  what their Dynamics are about. As an easy thing to pull off.
• 27:13
  I think I pulled off exceedingly.
• 27:14
  Well, sigh Catherine Fleming as the voice of the Animus is
• 27:20
  brilliant and chilling and wonderful and we don't ever see
• 27:24
  her. We Just have this, this
• 27:26
  disembodied voice and it's wonderful.
• 27:30
  It's such a great performance and is one of those performances
• 27:33
  in Doctor Who that never ever gets talked about and it really
• 27:36
  should, because she is absolutely brilliant.
• 27:40
  Sigh. Yeah, have you ever been asked
• 27:44
  why do you come now? O once or twice, Simon The
• 27:56
  soundscape now I I generally I know you two are much more into
• 28:01
  the the soundtracks that I am. I generally only take notice of
• 28:04
  soundtracks if they're particularly good or
• 28:07
  particularly bad and this was brilliant, that the sound just
• 28:11
  worked fantastically, the music really contributed.
• 28:15
  To the alien, feel the sound effects were Very effective.
• 28:26
  I think all of it just contributed to that whole
• 28:30
  alienness that goes throughout the whole story.
• 28:34
  I'm going to say now you said it was one of the best realize
• 28:37
  planets but I'm going to point out the moments of visual
• 28:43
  ambition that really works. So like the doctor, an ear in
• 28:47
  front of the pyramid, the shot the mirror shot are looking up
• 28:52
  at the ceiling there. Some of the work on the with the
• 28:57
  moon's behind them like it doesn't all work.
• 29:00
  I don't think, but I think when Also slots together, especially
• 29:06
  when it's on fill those sequences the Vermin, optra
• 29:09
  flying in are Unforgettable. I think this is one of the most
• 29:14
  visually arresting Doctor Who stories site.
• 29:18
  I'm going to go for the body horror that we don't often get
• 29:22
  at this this era of the show. So the ripping off the wings
• 29:27
  which is something that a child might do to an insect in in the
• 29:32
  garden or whatever. Tearing the Wings off a fly or
• 29:38
  whatever and the copter of sticking our head, into the wall
• 29:42
  and being covered in acid. And it's, it's horrific in a, in
• 29:48
  a strange way. But it's horrible and nasty.
• 29:52
  And again, Richard Martin directs it quite sensitively by
• 29:55
  not showing it, which makes it even worse in your imagination,
• 30:00
  that it would be sort of seeing it on screen.
• 30:02
  So just ripping the Beautiful Wings off the back of the man
• 30:06
  optra is is a horrible horrible thing, brilliant Simon right.
• 30:13
  The Tardis and the Tardis teams because we get some really nice
• 30:19
  Tardis scenes and interaction between the regulars in that
• 30:25
  particular in episode 1. This is one of the the best
• 30:31
  classic era Tardis teams. I think it's possibly a
• 30:38
  certainly, one of the best of the the 60s trout and Ben and
• 30:42
  Polly. I think it's the only one that
• 30:44
  comes even close. And Barbara in particular, this
• 30:50
  is her story. She takes Center Stage.
• 30:52
  She's the one that's leading the Rebellion.
• 30:55
  Ian is hidden away under ground, quite literally and sidelined
• 31:00
  his contribution to the plot is fairly minimal.
• 31:04
  The doctor and Vicki are Stuck in the carcinoma Barbara is the
• 31:10
  one she's out there. She's front and center.
• 31:13
  She is leading the charge and considering she's only in it for
• 31:17
  five episodes because she had a holiday in the middle.
• 31:19
  Yeah. She's absolutely badass story.
• 31:23
  Barbara is one of the best realized classic Companions and
• 31:27
  this is a fantastic story for her and my last one is going to
• 31:32
  be because I think on this viewing I realize how effective
• 31:36
  it is. But the Animus as both visually
• 31:41
  and in conception as as this sort of cancerous evil at the
• 31:47
  heart of the planet and just how that is explored, it's one of
• 31:52
  the more unusual Doctor Who monsters and you know, I've
• 31:57
  mentioned, I lost my mom to cancer.
• 32:00
  So to see this a lot of visual representation of this horrible
• 32:06
  sort of um, Knowable unkillable Insidious monster reaches out
• 32:13
  into this planet, like cancer cells in the body of so many
• 32:17
  people. I mean it's very scary when you
• 32:20
  think about it. Like that.
• 32:21
  Matty is visualized in a very scary way in this as well.
• 32:24
  I think it's very different and I think it's fantastic because
• 32:29
  of it. Oh my God, I think we've
• 32:31
  literally describe why the web play is the ultimate Doctor
• 32:35
  Who's Tommy? Yeah.
• 32:37
  I think we could sing his Praises more.
• 32:39
  I think people have come to this show.
• 32:41
  Expecting us to take the pace I'd be disappointed.
• 32:45
  Um, okay. So very briefly sigh.
• 32:50
  Where are we heading? Next?
• 32:51
  You and I me and you with Fraser next I'll go into the moon fire
• 32:57
  team at when it's working. There's a hot blond you know is
• 33:02
  ready to send us. There is your counter sin?
• 33:06
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 33:07
  I know we do. You wind up on the moon is going
• 33:09
  to sell it? Yeah an assignment.
• 33:12
  Where we heading next? First, we're heading to the
• 33:14
  Moon. I'll wake up early.
• 33:18
  Yeah, couple of years earlier, and we are going to visit a moon
• 33:20
  base, of course, California during the time W the next, you
• 33:24
  know them. So that's, that's the one after
• 33:27
  that I was trying to remember, when in the time was that I go
• 33:30
  to the fucking mood, you know, I'm going to share a few women.
• 33:43
  Those as well, you know, well, that just leaves me to say.
• 33:48
  Thank you very much for your time.
• 33:50
  Both of you is been such fun to talk about this story and I'm
• 33:54
  just, and I'm just going to slip a quick plug in because both of
• 33:58
  you are joining us on the X and Moss.
• 33:59
  Experiment, aren't you? We are, um, okay.
• 34:03
  Well, can I talk about what I'm talking about first?
• 34:05
  Absolutely, thank you very much. So I'm for the first time ever
• 34:09
  gonna be watching dude, watch four episodes have been selected
• 34:13
  for me to watch. Ouch.
• 34:14
  Now, this is notoriously the show that Terrance dicks said,
• 34:16
  he didn't even want to look over their scripts to see if they
• 34:18
  were exchanging the same ideas because it was so terrible.
• 34:22
  I know from you, but this is a show that's worth watching, so I
• 34:26
  can't wait to talk about it and I am going to be discussing a
• 34:30
  show that I discovered when I had covid earlier in the year
• 34:33
  and ended up watching the whole almost the whole existing
• 34:40
  episodes. So I'm going to be doing a story
• 34:43
  from The series Ace of Wands which is utterly and completely
• 34:49
  Bonkers happens. What you say?
• 34:52
  Oh Joe. It's difficult to describe now.
• 34:56
  But basically it's a story. The Adventures of a magician and
• 35:00
  his friends, but he has psychic abilities and comes up against
• 35:04
  really bizarre, plots thousand amazing.
• 35:07
  I'm sold you that. Well we're going to be recording
• 35:11
  those very soon other when we're coming out, I'm sorry, we came
• 35:14
  out years ago, but I don't know when we're going to be 2000
• 35:18
  roughly, when we're going to be released a bowl.
• 35:20
  God, no, that-that-that's down to Ken.
• 35:22
  And We have a tendency to slot extra things in so weird.
• 35:27
  There's a the next episode we're releasing is a memorial to the
• 35:33
  queen. Wow and that's something that
• 35:37
  was recorded very recently. Whereas we've got things like a
• 35:41
  commentary on the moon base was recorded about three years ago
• 35:43
  and we haven't got around to releasing yet.
• 35:44
  So commentaries with other people, we tend to release as
• 35:50
  quickly as we can. So I would hope fairly quickly
• 35:55
  but I'm not the one that does the editing.
• 35:57
  I just, I just turn up and talk. I'm just going to do one more
• 36:01
  quick brief plug, which I am going to now.
• 36:06
  Take our PSI heart because maximum power Series be, it's
• 36:14
  finally soon-to-be-released, it's all fantastic.
• 36:17
  So, yes. So we've done a very very, very
• 36:20
  special episode to start the series of I can't say more at
• 36:24
  the moment on Mike, because it might not have been released by
• 36:28
  the time. This commentary comes out, but
• 36:30
  I'm be editing that very shortly.
• 36:34
  And yeah, it's very, very exciting.
• 36:36
  And then we've got our 14 episodes for Sirius B, and our
• 36:39
  retrospective. Ready to go?
• 36:41
  Did you just say, you can't say anything on Mike?
• 36:48
  Oh, Joe. Uh-oh, fellas, thank you very
• 36:58
  much for your time. He's been an absolute pleasure.
• 37:01
  This has been wonderful. Thank you.
• 37:04
  And it's a joy as always, Joe, I'll see you soon.
• 37:09
  Boo.