Latest / The You Project / #1982 Dr. Cam's Dark Alley - Dr. Cam McDonald

Transcript

#1982 Dr. Cam's Dark Alley - Dr. Cam McDonald · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I got atenments you projects. It's Tiffany and cooking. It's
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: doctor Cam McDonald coming at you live from bloody Well
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: to us live from Queensland, looking like some kind of
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: covert operative who's just about to, I don't know, go
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: and execute somebody or assassinate somebody. He's in a back alley.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I'm not even joking. It looks like a back alley.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: He's got a hoodie on, tiff Can you describe what
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: I can see for our listeners, perhaps with some more
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know color.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: It looks like some sort of rambunctious, troubled youth that's
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: up to no good, not at all, don't Yeah.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Well, why don't you tell us where you are and why?
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: When you first started, I thought you were in your
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: mum's buddy cupboard or something. But then I saw a
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: bit of sunlight coming scrop. Where are you and why
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: are you there?
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: I like, I started making some very strange sounds on
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: Friday m so I had to go take it into
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: the service mechanic, and I also had an appointment down
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: at the Gold Coast, and fortunately there's a train station
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: right next to the mechanics, So two hours later I'm
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: in Rabina Town Center. I've got Harps's podcast that's on.
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: I'm currently standing next to a three twenty.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Four to seven parcel locker because it's the quietest place
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: that I could find, near the car park, near the
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: bus station where I got off. This is how we're
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: doing it.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: This is this is high level. But you know, here's
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: the thing, as you quite rightly said, and you're fucking around,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: but you're probably half right. You're like, nah, And I said,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: are you okay to do this? Don't? And you went, yeah,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: of course, I'm good. I was born for this. And
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: isn't it so funny? How or so interesting? I guess
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: is a better word that in the middle of what's
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: obviously not an ideal situational circumstance where you could quite
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: easily be distracted and perhaps I don't know, not want
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: to do it, you go, well, fuck, all I'm doing
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: is talking, So how hard can it be. It's just
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: in a slightly albeit not ideal situation.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know, I can talk in dark alleys,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: I can talk in front of people.
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: I prefer talking and dark alleys.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Actually it feels like it's more important. And I keep
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: taking my head around the corner just to look a
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: little bit, you know, look like I'm up to no good.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: But really we're trying to save the world here with
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: this content. That's the irony of it.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: So when you learn launch your personal podcast, you can
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: call it the Dark Alley with Doctor Cammick.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Into the depths.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we go where the others don't. That'd be good,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: that'd be good. Yeah, tif, how are you?
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: I'm really good. I'm really good, smarty.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: When Monday you just went and had your shit rubbed
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: by a bloke.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: It was the best? Yep, thank you.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Do you know what I find funny about massages? People
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: tend to love it or hate it. Like a lot
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: of people like, oh fuck, I hate people touching me.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I hate massage. I hate hands on my body. And
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: then other people are like, oh yeah, Like I love massage.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: I'm a bit of a massage slut. I used to
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: have one every week for like years. I'm like, oh yeah,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: and I haven't had one for a while, so I
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: assumed maybely I should get some speech therapy and a massage.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Are you a massage person? Camp?
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: I love a massage. I have to say, though, if
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: I leave it for longer than three or four months.
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: I don't want to go back because I just know
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: how painful it's going to be unwinding the things that
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: I've wound up, you know what I mean.
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: So if you're getting a regular one, I'm right.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: Into that, but.
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: I don't, so I'm scared of the most of the time.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: It's so funny, you know how we say, among other things,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: that emotion lives in the body and all that. One
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: of my not that I've seen this person for a
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: long time, but made of mine, was a masser. He
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: is a massure and he would say to me, at
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: least once a day, someone that is massaging cries, and
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: sometimes out of control crying just because not because they're
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: having a chat about anything, not because he pushed some
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: kind of emotional button. But it's just when I don't
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: know what it is. Everything's I'm sure you can explain
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: the physiology and the psychology doctor can, but there's something
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: goes on where there's some kind of psychological emotional, physiological
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  Speaker 1: release and people just go on and even they don't
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: know what's going on, but it happens right.
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: One hundred percent. I'd have to say that.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: I've had the fortune of being exposed to lots of
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: weird and wonderful things in my life. It's if you
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: were talking to a very conventional doctor, they probably wouldn't
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: recognize it, and that's okay. But being in the world
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: that I have, sort of mixing between both of those
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: worlds without a doubt, And if we were to get
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: down to it, if you have a stress response, a
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  Speaker 3: lot of that feeds into your fashion. There's a tension
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: in your fashion, there's nervous system active, there's even physiological changes,
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: organ changes and uh and well one hundred percent. There
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: seems to be regions of the body that are associated
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: with different emotional responses and different things that you go through.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: And I believe the link for us, if we were
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: to investigate that further, would be in the fashia.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fascinating tip. Have you ever felt like balling while
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: someone's rubbing your ass or your hamstrings?
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Not in the massive ads, but definitely in yoga. That's
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: happened to me twice, which is I guess similar like
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: those back bends. They get right in there really, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: because it really opens up the front of your body,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: which I believe or maybe it's your hips or something,
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: and that's where a lot of your emotions are stored. Twice,
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  Speaker 2: I've had an unexpected massive emotional breakdown in the middle
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: of the yoga class.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: And did you what did you do? Did you try
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: and fight it like a little fighter, or did you
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: just I can go with it. Dr Luk at Doctor Cam,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: he's looking over his should he's about to get attacked.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Can you please not die in the middle of the podcast?
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: In fact, don't die in general, but really fuck up
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: the show if you know you capitulated midcomb, especially once
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: we're in. If you're going to die, die soon or
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: just after the show.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: Thank you. I'll tell the hoodlums.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Don't die it or we love you, go and tiv Sorry.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Actually just remembered three times happened. First time was many
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: many years ago in a Bickram yoga class. First something
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: ever happened, and that was quite overwhelming, and I ended
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: up rushing out of the class, which is against the
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: rules in Bickerm yoga. It's like it's totty here. You're
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: locked in. Nobody leaves.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right I did.
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  Speaker 2: Second time was after I lost coaching my last whippet
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  Speaker 2: and I was in a yoga class. I stayed in
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: there and just sobbed on the mat. That was beautiful.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: And the third time was in India when we recently
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: went and Jem's partner she takes and we were doing
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: some pilates and backbends, and it was after our first
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: night there of all sharing our stories quite deeply and vulnerably,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: and again the little backbend and next minute just sobbing
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  Speaker 2: on the mat.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: I wonder what that's about, that particular movement for you?
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: And did you when when you had it in the
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: yoga studio after was it coach? When Coach died?
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  Speaker 3: Did you?
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  Speaker 1: Did you? Did you just fucking let it all out?
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: And did anyone come up and go? Are you okay?
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: They're very like I was. Well. I went with a
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  Speaker 2: client of mine, a friend and client, and she had
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: said to the yoga teacher had ran into her walking
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: coach once so that she had told her that I
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: was coming and I was probably gonna be quite upset
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: because I've lost that little doggie. And so you know,
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: people just they hold space. That's beautiful like that and
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  Speaker 2: everyone understands. And I wasn't loud. I was just you
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: could hear me sniffing and sobby and oh this is
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: this is a good space to be held if I'm
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: going to have a car I'm just because it's an
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  Speaker 2: emotion that it doesn't come from from your thoughts, like
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  Speaker 2: those the times when that happens, it's just you. One
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  Speaker 2: minute you doing yoga. In the next minute you're like, oh, okay,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: we're going to have a cry. Now. I'm not sure
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: where this came from.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Speaking of now this is a big left turn, but related.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know the exact term, but it's something like
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: exercise induced orgasms. Have you ever heard of that?
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: Cam?
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Have you heard of that?
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  Speaker 3: I mean, what kind of exercise is no?
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, no, this is real, Tiff, can
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: you look it up. I used to train this lady.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: This is twenty twenty years ago, and she was quite strong.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: She was an athlete and whenever she would do hanging
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: leg raisers.
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  Speaker 2: But ahak of those. And I'm not having the pleasure.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: No, But it's a very individual physiological And that sounds
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: like I'm being silly and inappropriate. It's actually not. But
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: it's something that happens, and it happens. It's like it's
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: more common than you think. It's like maybe one in
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: one hundred people or something.
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: So is this instead of getting a stitch? Is this
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: what happens?
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  Speaker 3: No?
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: No, people literally, No, they're nicknamed orgasms because often they
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: show up when you're doing call work, like crunches, planks
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: and hanging leg raisers.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: There you go, hanging leg raises, and when she would
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: do that, she would fall to around and go I
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: can't and I'm like, you're right. She goes, and then
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: she would be really embarrassed but kind of laughing and
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: having the best time ever. I'm like, what the fuck
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: is going on? And she goes. You cannot tell anyone.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: So here the park. I am on an international podcast.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Shout out to Donna. No, that's on her, but yeah
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: that's your Donna. Yeah, babies from Bo Morris. I hope
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: you're doing well. It's been a while, as that's still happening.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: No it No, that's not who it was, but yes,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: it's it's a real thing. And so we had to
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: get a work around so we could work her abs without,
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: you know, without being too distracting for the rest of
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: the members.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Intrigued.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: What else does it say?
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: There's ten to fifteen percent of women have had at
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: least one that's probably more than who have had one
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: with regular sex with their partner.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: That's interesting, isn't it. That's interesting? Wow?
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: Well I wonder if the people that can have that
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: are also the ones that are having it.
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: With their partner.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Oh good point.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Wow to be the same population.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Wow wow. Well, enough about orgasms and uncontrolled crying in yoga.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: We were going to talk today about intrinsic motivation. Dr
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: cam I have I've talk about motivation more than I
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: want to. I don't mean in this conversational kind of sense,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: but just in terms of it. You know, it seems
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: something that comes up regularly in my work where people
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: want to know, you know, how do I stay motivated? Craigan.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: I'm like, ah, this is not a quick answer. And
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: when I get introduced as a motivational speaker, which I
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: understand it, but I fucking hate that title. It's like,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: that isn't what I am, but you know, good intentions.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: And then I kind of have to explain in a
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: nice way without sounding like a spoilt brat, why I'm
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: not that and what I am, And then what I
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: think the role of motivation is, and not only the
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: role of motivation, but what motivation actually is like what
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: is it? Is it a state? Is it a driver?
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Is it an emotional and or psychological experience? Is it
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: a frame of mind? Can we generate it? Do we?
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: You know? So when we talk about external or extrinsic
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: and intrinsic motivators, what are we chatting about, doc, Well, I.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: Mean the thing that inspired it is I'm about to
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: walk into a school and then they're running a program
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: with the students where they already run a strengths based
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: kind of program where they say, hey, you did this
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: really well, congratulations on your strength, and then they put
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: a little ticket up on the board, whatever it might be,
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: and they now want to send it home. They want
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: to get the educators to send it home to the
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: parents so that the parents can see it as well,
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: and so that there's a full get it around the
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: child effect on that they're getting feedback from the school
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: and at home consistently. And one of the things that
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: came up was there's a couple of educators there that
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: are a little bit resistant to doing this because they
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: feel like telling a child, you know, good job their
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: strengths whatever it might be, robs them of their intrinsic
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: motivation because it's externally delivered, and it got me thinking,
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: you know, everything, everything that's changing our state some sort
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: of external input that we then develop into our internal
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: motivation whatever it may be. We are constantly in reaction
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: and response to the environment all of the time, and
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: it's just started getting me thinking about, well, there has
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: to be a useful input that still generates intrinsic motivation
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: in an individual or provides the environment that it does.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: And it got me thinking about, well, what state, what
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: physiological state does somebody need to be in to have
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: more intrinsic motivation, And that sort of led me down
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: the pathway. Okay, well, how a person will get into
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: that physiological state is going to be quite different depending
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: on the person that they are as well and so,
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: and it all depends on from what I'm seeing, it
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: all depends on the way that you are giving the compliment.
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: But also there's another little layer in here as well around.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: The right compliment, the right strength can actually return someone
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: back to the physiological state that then supports intrinsic motivation
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: as well. And say, I was just I was fascinated
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: to unpack that today.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, that is super interesting. I think more broadly,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: if we zoom out from praising someone or giving them,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: you know, only positive input, which of course is great,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: but to be able to give them, you know, all
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: kinds of feedback, constructive and what some people might call critical,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: which I think critical gets misrepresented. Critical gets intertwined with
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: hurtful or judge. I don't know, you know, it seems
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: like it gets a bad rap. Well, let's know, it's
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: just it's just thinking critically and consciously and strategically about
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: what you're doing and maybe how it could be better.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: And me, who's maybe got a few more runs on
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: the board. Did you just come across someone cam's glaring
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: at somebody.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: It's a nice seven year old who has given me
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: a weird look. So it's just not gave them a Yeah,
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: I'm good with oldies.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you should maybe took the take the
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: hoodie off, I mean the top it. But yeah, I
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: think that we praise is good to a point. Like
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: if a kid only ever gets praise and never gets
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: anything but accolades and pats on the back and approval
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: and you're amazing, I don't know that that sets them
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: up well for life beyond the praise bubble agreed.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: I just don't think you'll find a child who's getting
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: that life, And I think there is it is. I
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: would say almost. I don't want to say impossible. Almost
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: impossible to go through this life without the majority of
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: the feedback that you're getting being neutral or judgmental. I
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: would say there. And I would say there's a difference
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: between praise and also supporting a person back into a
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: state of safety. And I think that there's a because
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: safety is a very important part of the physiological response
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: that allows you to have intrinsic motivation too.
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: Yes, I hear what you're saying.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: If you're just giving phrase and like, no matter what
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: you do, and here's a trophy for you know, falling
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: over before you even stepped up to the sopper pitch
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: type thing. Yes, I think that's where they're getting an
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: undriden It's not leading them back to themselves. It's in fact,
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: in painting a false picture. It's disconnecting from them from
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: themselves even further. And I think that was the thing
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: that really came across, is how can we return people
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: back to feeling good in themselves?
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: And from there there's some good things that happened.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, is there ever a time where we go people
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: don't have to feel good about themselves all the time
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: because it's not a normal human experience feel good about
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: yourself all the time as opposed to self loathing and
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: you know, self flagellation. But it's like, oh he feels shit,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: well he probably should feel shitited for a little bit
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: because he did something shit. And this is this is
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: part of being human. It's not to try to drag
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: everybody out of every emotional hole they find themselves in
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: and to make it better. You know, sometimes I think
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: you know while still knowing, Hey, by the way, you're loved,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: We love you, but you fucked up, but we love you.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: That's that doesn't ever decrease or go away. But you're
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: loved and valued and needed and wanted, but you did
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: some dumb shits. So just sit in that.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: I love that. And that's That's a very important difference
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: from projecting onto somebody and saying I'm in a bad mood.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: You've done something that's wronged me, you've made you've made
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: me feel this way, and I'm doing this specifically to
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: make you feel like with without that love attached. But
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: then at the same time, presenting an environment where someone
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: can find a boundary is really really powerful to say, hey,
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: you cross this boundary and as a result, there's a
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: consequence to this, and then they're allowed to respond or
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: react with emotion to that. But it's this I believe
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: that the state that someone's holding when they're holding that
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: boundary is one of one of care and one of neutrality,
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: allowing the response rather than trying to create someone to
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: feel bad. I don't think you're feeling bad enough. I'm
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: going to make you feel upset. That's that's not the
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: that's not the way to do it. You know.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: One of the tough things I reckon about this doctor
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Cam and tiff Et l everyone else is that, you know,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: sometimes it's like the people that are guiding the big
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: people that are guiding the little people don't have their
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: own shit together, you know what I mean, how many
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: of us, including me at times, are fuck ups. And
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: then you bring your own fucked upness into that situation
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: where you don't realize just your energy and your words
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: and your present presence and the way that you interact
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: with that kid consciously or not impacts that kid. You know,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: So having this high level social and situational awareness and
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: social and emotional intelligence, you know, forever around your kid.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: All that. I mean, that's I would think that's somewhat impossible.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: I would agree with a lot of experience around that.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: And all I'm doing is thinking about this stuff all
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: day long. And then I've got the extra lens of
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: specifically knowing the words that are going to affect my
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: kid's genes the most, Like I have information on that,
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: and I still find myself failing it daily, you know,
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: And this is the and I just think about, you know,
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: obviously I shared a few podcasts ago now about my
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: subconscious clearing that I had, Like some of the baggage
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: in my subconscious was from Mum, you know, like from
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: my memory. And it couldn't be something that I've made up,
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: but it could be Mum saying, no, don't give him
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: a hug. He's in trouble to dad, you know that.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: And that's that's innocent. That's like, no, he's in the
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: corner getting punished. But what I needed in that moment,
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: my little soul needed some love. I mean, that's so innocuous,
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: and so there is no chance.
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: No chance.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: That you can't mess up that you can't bring your baggage.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: That you can't and you've just got to understand that
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: that's part of the human journey. Like every single person
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: is going to have something subconscious that's influencing their belief
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: systems and you're going to be projecting that without even
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: knowing it, and silently you can project it.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: It's fascinating.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: So this is why one of the big things that
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: I'm going to do in this session is I'm going
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: to take them through an experience of what it feels
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: like to be in your happy, flow based, cared for
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: state and how do you actually feel Do you feel passionate?
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: Do you feel like you're actually motivated to do something now?
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: Because if people can get an experience of that themselves
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: and this is then they're much more likely to be
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: able to pass that on. And probably I've heard Jordan
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: Peterson say it before, but I've seen it in action
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: many many times, and that is you know, it takes
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: so few moments of a strength based complement and celebrating
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: someone for who they are to completely change their day.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: Yet yet we don't do it as a culture. We
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: don't we aren't specifically looking for how can I lift
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: this person up. How can I make them feel better?
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: How can I celebrate just who they are and tell
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: them that they are enough just by being who they are.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: It's it's not in our normal vocabulary or our in
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: our normal interactions. So there's such a powerful opportunity there
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: to really raise that.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: How old did these kids stock?
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: So the primary school?
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Wow?
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: Primary school?
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's right time.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're forming subconscious patterns right now, and like to
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: think that you can embed some really powerful identity of geez,
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: me just being me is enough Geese. That's a that's
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: a cool thing to amplify as you get older, because
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: that is that. I don't know, I find very few
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: people don't have some sort of story I'm not good
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: enough for, I'm not worthy, Like is it just seems
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: to be written into.
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: Our experience.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: When is the time where you might say, with a kid,
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: where you might sit down one on one quietly, Not
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: that you want to do this every day because it
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: becomes ineffective, but you know, it might be once a month,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: might be once a year where you just you identify
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: patterns of behavior and patterns of communication and even within
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: yourself that are problematic with your kid or you know,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: whoever the person is doesn't have to be a kid.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: But where you would say, can I chat to you?
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: And then you just sit I don't know. You walk
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: to a park, you sit on a bench and it's
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: just you and a couple of trees and no phones,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: and it's thirty minutes, or it's ten minutes, or it's
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: you sitting out the back of the in the backyard,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: but just where you step out of the busyness and
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: the routine and the mania of a busy day, which
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: is all of us. We're all ver busy, and just
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: go I want to talk about this.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: It's interesting you asked that, and I've got a I
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: actually think that that's it serves some people. Well, my
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: son is a as were spoken about, he's a little connector. Ultimately,
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: what that means is that what is happening in the
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: moment is the thing that is in the moment.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: This is the thing that matters right now.
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: And if I was to pull him aside for something
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: he did two weeks ago, yes, he would just get
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: lost in the conversation straight away. Whereas and so I'm
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: finding that I need to consciously make that moment in
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: the moment and I need to deal with it in
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: the moment. However, there are like my niece and nephew,
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: for example, have a very different makeup, very future focused,
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: but also are a lot more logical and linear in
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: their thinking, and they do well having a structured conversation
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: about things, whereas I've just found that it's not even
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: though that's my preference, it's not being successful with my
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: more emotionally driven son. If I deal with something in
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: the moments, hey, hey mate, quick one, how to think
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: about this? And I have to say it in quite
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: a specific way for him to grab it. I can't
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: do the lecture thing. I can't do the explanation thing.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: I've got to get him to I've got to trompt
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: a feeling out of him with a situation. How do
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: you think that would feel? Do you think this would see?
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: How do you think that would feel to them?
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: So it's just different language.
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: Whereas I can really with my niece and nephew, I
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: can just break it down exactly the way that I
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: think about it, and they grab it because their brain's
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: a lot more similar to mine. So I think there's
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: absolute value in it. It's the way and the timing
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: of it. Will differ up for people.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I remember, I don't know how long it was ago,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Tiff might tell me five months or something ago. Tif
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: and I had a bit of a rough patch for
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: no logical reason, and it was just like we're both
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: a bit fucked off at each other for nothing in particular, right,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what it was. But I remember one
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: day we had something of an emotional conversation which went
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: from emotional to not emotional to just really healthy too.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: And I would say in you know, I don't know, Tip,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: was it twenty minutes on the phone or something like.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: I remember, I remember where it happened. I was out walking,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: and I don't know where you were, but I remember
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: exactly where I was when they had we had a
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: conversation and you're a bit upset and I was a
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: bit upset, and there was a bit of miscommunication and
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: misunderstanding and a few assumptions that were incorrect on both sides,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: and blah blah blah blah blah. I reckon since that
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: one conversation, like, our relationship has been one hundred percent
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: healthier than it was even before, don't you think ever? Ever? Yeah,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Like it's just like, oh, well, I wish I had
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: that fucking conversation before, because this is not that hard.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: You know where I had to go. You know, I
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: with this what I think this? She said, this is
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: what I think and feel, and I went, this is
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: what I think and feel. And we both went, ah, well,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: I didn't mean that, and I went, I didn't mean
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: that and we both went ah, shoulder strug all right
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: then or good?
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: And it's I know that won't work for everyone, but
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: for me that when you like just take a little
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: bit of time and space and you're not hurrying, you're
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: not doing it off the back of something else, or
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: you're not rushing to somewhere or.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: With that in mind, what do you think of the
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: idea of adults asking children for feedback on their performance,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: as in saying, your kid, as a dad, how am
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I going? What do you think I could do better?
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: Now?
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I know that's a you know, that's going to be
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: a bloody nightmare, maybe or maybe not, because I would
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: like to really understand what if I was a dad,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: what I am like through their eyes? Like what is
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: the CRAIGIEXP into the dad experience? Obviously this is my PhD,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: but you know, what is it like being around me
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: for them, not what do I think it is, but
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: what the fuck actually is it?
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know if they've got the language for it, right,
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: I mean, and you cannot, I think, to get to
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: get them to articulate something that you know that makes
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: sense at an adult cognitive level, I think would be
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: a stretch.
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: There would be feedback that you could get on. Yeah,
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: I mean, they're definitely.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: I mean from the experience, there's definitely to say, like
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: do you feel like I'm listening to you all of
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: the time? Do you feel like if you went in
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: with some guided questions as to the types of things
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: that we know is important just to the human experience,
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: I think you could get some some good stuff out
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: of that. The there's so much, there's so much consideration
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: that's outside their sphere when it comes to being a
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: you know, like the way that you manage emotions, the
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: way that you put things to a side, or as
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: a mother as well, like mums put so much to
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: the side to you know, to be the mother and
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: to be centered and to be balanced for the child
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: and to forego things.
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: So it's a really interesting question.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, definitely, I would argue that they're constantly giving
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: that feedback all of the time indirectly. Yeah, I'm just thinking, Yeah,
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: it's a really good question. I think some kids would
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: be able to do it quite well. There's some kids
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: that are able to articulate their thoughts in a really
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: powerful way. They're able to break down things with structure.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: Other kids are a lot more emotionally driven. Other kids
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: will want to please you and will give an answer
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: that you want. So I think you would have to
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: ask the question specifically if you go on for a
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: very specific outcome. What do you think?
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it would just be an interesting exercise.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: I'm with you. I think different kids are going to
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: give you different levels of you know, honesty from one
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: of a better term and insight. And also I agree,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: you know, whether or not they actually to be able
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: to one identify clearly what they feel or think and
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: then articulated in a way that's meaningful is you know,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: another challenge. But I was thinking while you were talking,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: this my first real experience with this kind of interactive
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: feedback and you know, kind of situational on social awareness
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: and what am I like and what do you think
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: of me? And all that stuff, was when I worked
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: at sin Kilda Footy Club, which was a long time ago,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: and there was a dude called is still a dude
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: called Ray MacLean who runs I think he still runs
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: an organization called Leading Teams And sin Kilda was one
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: of the first clubs back in the day to bring
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: in an external contractor. And some of it was rough,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: where we just plugged a dude up the front, a
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: player up the front, and everyone just went, here's what
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: we think. And I mean some guys were good with it,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: some guys weren't good with it. Some guys, you know, understandably.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: And that's also, you know, to what you were saying,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: what will work with one person, which actually could be
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: quite empowering and helpful, insightful and directive for somebody else,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: could be a comple complete social clusterfuck where it's just
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: this doesn't work at all, and now I hate you
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: and fuck off and don't talk to me. So that's
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: the other thing. We're trying to apply one single idea
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: or methodology or protocol to forty different athletes in other words,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: forty different human beings and thinking you might get some
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: kind of consistent accuracy or feedback or you know, it's
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: it doesn't work either.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: You have to assume amazing emotional intelligence. Like I know
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: plenty of my friends if they got some really bad
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: feedback from their kid, it doesn't miss them like it
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: hits them, and it changed their response and there'll be
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: defensiveness and they'll be justification and they'll come around to it.
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: But you know, there's.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say that with the right lens you
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: can check out the feedback that you're getting from your
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: child all of the time, based on their behavior and
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: various things like that. But yes, even in that situation,
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: like we know that some individuals are much more geared
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: towards the external perception of status and if they don't
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: have it, it's it's really damaging and a lot of
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: them so and that the same person is very future focused,
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: so to be told about all of the things that
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: are wrong with their past, the things that they've done
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: in the past, that just plays on their mind. They've
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: dropped their status. They're now having to focus on the
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: past rather than thinking, well, why don't you just tell
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: me what I can do better, rather than how I'm
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: really bad, whereas somebody else loves that past orientation is
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: very very open to feedback, isn't so worried about the
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: status of things, and so it doesn't have the same
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: impact on They can take a lot away from it.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: They're not so emotionally charged by the whole thing. So
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: absolutely there's But at the same time, if you've got
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: a if you're wanting to build a culture of we
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: talk about everything and you know, then that's one way
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: of going about it. But I would say that and
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: even from the session that I'm thinking about later on today,
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: is in order for somebody to receive feedback really well
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: and grow, for someone to feel like this is a
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: really good environment and I now want to get better
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: and I'm now motivated, and it to be intrinsic.
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: They have to feel safe.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: And so if a person is feeling incredibly threatened up
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: the front, you need to have an incredible safety mechan
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: around that situation so that they have time to process it,
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: they have time to be caught on the other side
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: of it, they have time to be you know, like
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: to be then loved. I don't know if that happened
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: at s and Kilda, but there needs to be a
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: safe environment in order for healing to occur. That's why
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: you need to sleep. That's why you heal when you sleep.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: That's why you're immune system comes on when you sleep.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: That's when you can't take a kid out of trauma
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: unless you've actually got them into.
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: A safe place.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: That's why psychological consultations they take you into that dangerous
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: spot while you're in a safe place.
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: It is.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: And if you're now on a team and then straight
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: away you're running out under the paddock afterwards and you
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: haven't had a time to decompress, then you're out there
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: thinking about what are these blokes actually think of me?
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: You know, should I even kick to them? So it's
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: an interesting one.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, and in their defense, they were still very good.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: I mean they were very good, and they were really
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: breaking ground, you know in this psychological, emotional, social intelligence,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: interaction awareness kind of space, and you know they're still
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: around and they've really evolved, and it was for the
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: most part, it was good. But even if you've got
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: the best model or the best whatever, the best protocol
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: and the best intentions, even now you know, you go,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: even with all we know now and everything, you're still
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: you're still going to get some bad outcomes just because
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: you're dealing with so many different human beings. When you
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: go into something like today, what are the what are
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: the outcomes that you want to get? Like? What are
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: the intended out So when you talk to the teachers
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: or the principal or whoever, it is like, what are
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: we looking to get out of a day like this
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: where you're spending with you know, some primary aged kids
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: in terms of what we might see off the back
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's a group of about twenty educators and
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: the leadership team.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Oh sorry, I thought it was with kids.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: It is for the kids, right, for the kids, right, Yeah,
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: But regardless, the outcomes are actually the same even if
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: this is happening for the kids too. The number one
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: thing is they have to feel safety during the session,
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: and that's generally I do some sort of visualization that
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: takes them to a place where they can feel safe,
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: and then I get them to talk about their experience
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: to somebody else about that sense of safety and what
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: it means to them.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: Can I interer up for one sec. Are you talking
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: about the teachers need to feel safe or are you
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: talking about when the teachers do this work with the kids.
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: No?
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: No, yeah, I get the teachers to feel safe, right, right?
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: And the reason for that is because you can talk
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: theory and science at them the whole time, but they'm
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: actually feeling. The thing that we're trying to get the
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: kids to feel is easily the most convincing evidence that
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: they can collect on the day. So we talk about
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: the theory normally, I give them the experience first. I
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: make sure that they feel something, because they get them
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: immediate response, oh jeez, that is really nice. That does
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: feel good. I do like that person and the effect
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: that they have on me. That does make me feel
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: better and more motivated and more clear. And so you go, great,
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: have a chat to your friend about it. And then
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: we explain some of the science as to why it
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: happens the way that it does and why it relates
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: to the thing that we visualized. So they go, okay,
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: well that now makes sense. That gives them the principles
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: then to say, well, how can I translate that to
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: another person? And so by the end of it, they've
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: already got a structure that is built of the way
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: they're feeding these positive comments to the kids. What I'm
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: looking to generate today is for them to say, holy crap,
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: if we don't do this, it's negligent. You know, if
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: we don't, if we don't really support these individuals and
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: then get everybody in their life to reflect this stuff
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: back to them. I mean, if we do it, it
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: makes such a powerful difference. If we don't, then we're
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: robbing them a little bit. And I want that sort
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: of comparison so that when the logistics of hey, you've
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: got to fill out this sheet and you've got to
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: hand this sheet in at the end of the week,
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: and you're going to be tracked by the head of school,
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: like when all of that's liff comes around, I want
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: it to be framed in a ultimately and intrinsically motivated
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: place of I've got information, I know what it feels like.
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: I actually want to do this for the kids because
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: it's going to make me feel good, right.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: I want to be a contrarian for one minute, not
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: because I necessarily. I definitely don't disagree with you. I
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: agree with you, and everything you said makes sense. But
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: I have a question that is a kind of a
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: juxtaposition of that particular idea that you just shared. My
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: question is, so we want people to learn, grow, evolve,
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: be resilient, be able to deal with uncertainty. We want
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: them to be able to adapt, deal with the unknown, essentially,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: cope with hardship, because life is hardship. Is it ever
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: okay to create a situation where people feel unsafe? They're
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: not unsafe, but they feel unsafe And this is part
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: of the growing and learning and teaching.
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: Understand. Give me an example that you're thinking of.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm just thinking of like, you know, some times
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: when I would train people, and I will train people
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: hard as tiff nose, right, and it is not the
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: most comfortable, safe, joyful, pleasant. It's all optional though, and
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: I'd say you can stop any time, but I wouldn't
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: say that. The experience they're having is I feel safe.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Neither necessarily do I feel under imminent threat. But I
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: just think that And maybe safe or unsafe is not
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: the exact terminology. But I'm thinking, like we talk so
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: much about resilience and being able to be the calm
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: and the chaos equanimity, you know, dealing with all of
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: these real kind of life experiences, the good, the bad,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: the peaks of troughs, a fucking ugly, the beautiful, Like
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: we've got to deal with all of it, not just
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: the peaks and not just the beautiful and not just
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: the comfortable. But I think if we always train people
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: in a comfortable environment, what happens when they step out
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: of the comfort, when they step out of the safety
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: and the known and the certain into the opposite? Have
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: we prepared them for that?
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: I love that.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: So the thought that goes through my mind when you
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: say that is the equivalent of uh, let's say stress,
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: like they're going through stress when they're exercising really hard
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: as opposed to the safety is a recovery space. Yes,
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: So in my mind, what you're doing firstly you create
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: well for me, straight up exercise, you become unsafe. Let's
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: for the purposes of this experience, when you're testing yourself
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: above and beyond.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: The safety environment then is getting enough sleep because that's
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: where your recovery happens. It's eating enough food because that's
• 39:46
  Speaker 3: where your recovery happens. And if you were to consistently
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: miss sleep and consistently miss your nutrition, eventually that same
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: environment that was tolerated but a little bit risky will
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: now start to cause injury because there isn't a recover
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: from that stress that's being placed on somebody. So if
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: you're couching that exercise firstly in an amount that's appropriate
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: a progressive overload, and then you're ensuring that they get
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: an appropriate amount of recovery. Then that's that wrap around
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: of safe environment to risk to safe environment again where
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: the healing can occur.
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: Because the only point of having.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: A stressful like the only the benefit of having a
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: stressful experience is if there is some sort of recovery
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: on the other side of it, that's where you learn
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: about it. If you're just constantly under stress, you just
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: constantly waste your body away, that's you see an ultra
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: marathon runner. They're a shadow at the end of their
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: one hundred cases. So the equivalent for me cognitively and
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: emotionally is allowing someone to go into a space where
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: they're challenged is great, and then collecting them on the
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: other side and helping them learn and helping them recover
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: and helping them grow from the experience is the gold
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: I would I would say particularly for educators as well,
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: seventy percent of them at a moderate or greater risk
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: of depression and anxiety. I would say that they are
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: constantly in the example of training without sleep, most of
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: the time they are constantly feeling overburdened by life.
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: They're feeling like.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: They're having to manage curriculum plus their workload, plus their
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: duties to parents, plus the ever increasing needs of neurodivergence.
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: And what that brings to the classroom as well is
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: that they are constantly living in a less than happy place.
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: They're often not being educated on how to eat well
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: and sleep well and exercise well to recover those things.
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: And so often my intention when I'm in a session,
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: I agree with you one hundred percent that we should challenge,
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: But most people I find don't even know how to
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: navigate back to safety first. And so I guess a
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: lot of the work that I do is about helping
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: people find safety because heaps a challenge already in their life,
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: they just handle it better once they know how to
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: return back to safety.
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: So that would be I agree, And I think you
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: know perfect.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: Like the example you used before in a sporting team
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: is you need the whole gamut. Like you need to
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: make sure that you are challenging people with their training,
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: you also need to be maximizing their recovery mentally and
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: emotionally as well.
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: So I agree, I agree, that's what came to mind.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because and this sounds like bullshit, but it's not.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Literally this morning, I was at the cafe and I
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: was talking to a guy who played about two hundred
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: games of AFL, so, you know, very good, not a
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: super duper star, but a very fucking anyone who plays
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: five games to me as a hero, right, but and
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: there's five games more than I ever could have played
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: in anything professional, but so really good player. And we
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: were talking about he's now coaching a team, and he
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: was talking about how they went on the weekend. They won,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: but they were shit in the first half, and they
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: got their shit together, and we're talking about dealing with pressure,
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: and we both spoke about athletes that either we've played
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: with him or coached me worked with, who were genetically gifted,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: who were skilled, who could run a fucking five K
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: time trial in you know, fifteen or sixteen minutes, who
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: could like they had all of these gifts and skills,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: but in the middle of a game, in front of
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: you know, seventy or eighty thousand people at the MCG,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: they just couldn't deal with the pressure. So despite the
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: fact that they had all of the physiological and skill
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: kind of attributes they never really succeeded because they just
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: couldn't manage their mind to manage their body. And this
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: is you know, it's so interesting. And I think that
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: even with like I've watched Tiff over the last two
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: years go from being let's see, not terrified but not
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: super confident in front of audiences to now where she's
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: very skilled. Like it's the same woman doing the same thing,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: but the confidence and the capacity to form under pressure
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: and freestyle and b in the moment and just deliver
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: has really evolved. You know, like she doesn't have more potential,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: she has more skill, but she doesn't have better genetics.
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: She doesn't act like everything's the same, except she's evolved
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: in the way that she needed to evolve. And I
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: think that that whole You know, whether or not you're
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: a politician or an athlete, or a corporate speaker, or
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: you building an organization and trying to change the world,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: you know, how well you can perform under pressure is
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: almost the overarching determinants determinant of successful failure.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: I agree. I agree. And the reason that Tiff has
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: got better, oh it has it was because she was
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: putting herself in an uncomfortable place, and then recovered and
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: then reflected, collected, put herself in a more uncomfortable place, again,
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: reflected and collected, put it on. And it's that progressive
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: overload which is really important. So I agree that controlled
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: discomfort is a brilliant thing. It's what exercise training is
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: all about. Like to make it the easiest analogy ever.
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: So yes, it's the cycle of challenge and recovery, challenge
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: and recovery where you can learn from the things.
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: I think that for me is the key.
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, two things before we wind up. I may have
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: asked you these at some stage, but if I did,
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: it was years ago. So I want to revisit these
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: two questions that I sometimes ask new people to the show.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Question number one is what is something that you believed
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: that you don't believe anymore, or something that was really
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: part of your teaching or your ideology or and you
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: might have just changed the way you do it, or
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: you might have done a complete one idea and thought
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: I think now I don't think that anymore because I've
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: got new information or awareness or knowledge. What's something that
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: you've done a version of a one ad on?
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that knowledge is the most important thing for me,
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: Knowledge was the most important thing.
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: That was my strength. I loved collecting knowledge. I loved.
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: But now I know that it's it's the feeling that
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: is created in people. For some it is the knowledge,
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: for others it is But even on stage, like particularly,
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: you know, I used to think, if I just feel
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: my slides and just fill people's brains with content, then every.
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: Of the world's going to change.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: And what I realized now it's the emotion that people experience,
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: and it's the practicality of them being able to put
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: into place and it you know, just the way that
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: I explain things now is so basic because you just
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: don't need the detail in order for people to feel
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: it and then do it. So that's probably been a
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: huge change. And I still see that in myself now,
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: like I'll the first time I present new content, I'll
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: be over I'll be overboard with the information that there'll
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: be too much of it. That's still an old habit
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: that I go into sometimes.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: All right, last question is two. Part Part one is
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: what are you great at? Uh? And there's nowhere you
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: going that you just have an awareness that you're very
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: fucking good at that thing. And Part two is what
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: do you need to be better at?
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I know I'm great at going away collecting
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: information and turning into something that's that's fun to listen
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: to where people can get an insight from it and.
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: Do it in a in a fun way.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: School. I like that school.
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: And then the things that I need to be better at,
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: I would have to say, discipline around routine really yeah, yeah,
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: I get things done. I get things done, but it's
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: more scattered than I would like it to be. So
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: it's there is a really nice rhythm that comes from
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: me being routined from doing the same thing, from tracking
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: the same metric. But there's part of my brain that goes, yeah,
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: let's do something different, and I just I just see that,
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: and I know that if I stayed on the original track,
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: then things will just move along with a little bit
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: more ease.
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: We still get there, but I know, I know I
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: could be better.
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: At that tip.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: How often or many times have you and doctor Cam
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: been in the same room?
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: Have we been in the same room camp?
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: Have we ever? I don't think so.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, zoom rooms. Yeah, but you've never you've never met
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: in person?
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: That's crazy.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is interesting. Yeah, I thought that well, doctor Cam.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: When you do bump into Tip one day, treat yourself
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: to a boxing session with her. I think you'll enjoy it.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: All right mate, We appreciate you. Tell people where they
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: can hear you up.
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, just the best way to go is just
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: search doctor cam and then the Shay Group, Shae Group,
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: and then depending on whether you're a health professional and
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: wanting to look at precision health and medicine, whether you're
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: a corporate that's looking at well being, schools that are
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: looking at precision learning, precision leadership, gyms that are wanting
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: to personalize your membership experience. That's all of that can
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: be found at the Shay Group website at doctor cam.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Get the up. Butto cup all right mate, we'll say
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: goodbye here but good luck for today and have fun
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: with those teachers and we appreciate you.
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: Thank you, appreciate it