Latest / Authentic Living / Digital Transformation and the ROR: Return On Relationships with Kamales Lardi

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Digital Transformation and the ROR: Return On Relationships with Kamales Lardi · Authentic Living

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Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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things that really matter in our lives.
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And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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Hi, everyone.
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It's Roxanne Durgesh.
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Thanks for tuning in again to authentic living with Roxanne.
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Today, I have a colleague Kamala Salardi.
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Kamala and I, I think met almost a year ago at the Forbes, Women's Executive Council, of which
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she was the chair and I have since taken on that role.
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So Kamala brings a breadth and depth of knowledge in as a strategic and bold thinker in
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digital and business transformation.
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She's been, in this role for about, I believe, about 23 years.
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And she's a teaching fellow at Durham and she's a keynote speaker and she's recently, released
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her new book.
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And, Kamala, thanks so much for being here with us today.
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Thank you for having me, Roxanne.
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It's it's been a pleasure getting to know you as well.
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So Kamalas, you know, I should also tell you that, you know, that Kamalas did a, testimonial
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on my book, which was so lovely for her to spend the time with her busy schedule at her a
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young family.
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So today, we're gonna talk a little bit about when we were kind of talking prior to starting,
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with the recording, we talked a little bit about what, digital transformation is because I
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think even myself, I'm in the middle of it, but to be able to definitively define that, it's
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been something that I think a lot of people kinda think it's, you know, that's just kinda,
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you know, the tech changes that you keep current with and what you do.
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But, obviously, you be you be an expert.
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Share with us.
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What digital transformation really is.
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Absolutely.
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So it
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might surprise you to know, Roxanne, that digital transformation is not a new topic.
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It's been around since the seventies eighties.
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As long as we've been using technology in the business world, digital transformation has been
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a topic for many companies.
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And I've been in, you know, the tech implementation space for large organizations
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since the nineties.
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And I've seen technology transform the way we do things in business What has happened,
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though, in recent years over the last decade or so is technology development has, has rapidly,
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develop or technology has developed rapidly so rapidly that it's created opportunities for
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companies to develop exponential scale, exponential growth.
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And we're seeing such massive changes in the markets.
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And one of the things that I've noticed is almost on a daily basis, we're seeing new
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technology breakthroughs come out that are transforming the way we do things in business.
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And so digital transformation really is the application of technology for organization wide
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change.
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And this does not just include implementing a technology solution.
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Many business leaders and companies tend to think it relates to, rollout of a technology
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solution, the silver bullet solution that's going to solve their business issues, It's
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actually the, you know, technology in the sense has massive impact on the way we do things.
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It can accelerate business outcomes But digital transformation relates to organization wide
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change.
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That means looking at how your organization operates today, how you access your customers,
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the kinds of operations you have, the skill level of the people in the organization and how
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they work, and transforming this towards a digital future with the help of technology.
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So it allows companies to really create more value in the market within a shorter time span
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with less costs and to create real hyper personalized experiences for their customers
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with these new technologies.
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So one of the most challenging things about this, you know, over 80% of companies that are
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trying to implement digital transformation, they do tend to fail.
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And that's because they tend to underestimate the value of technology they underestimate the,
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the one of the most key elements in this digital transformation concept, which is the
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people side of things.
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People can make or break any technology implementation, any strategic implementation in
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any organization.
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And so over the last 2 decades, I've observed companies almost underestimate the value of the
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people side of digital the human factor, and this is what drove me to write the book, the
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human side of digital business transformation.
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You know, it's so interesting as we were just talking about how many synergies with my new
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book which has been out but is an then soft launch and will come for a full lunch, in a
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month or 2 and and Kamara listened.
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There was so much we knew that we had some synergies.
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We had talked a little bit So let's talk a little bit about the people side.
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Right?
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Now before we jump into that, Kamala's, what what got you into digital transformation.
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Did I mean, I'm trying to picture a six year old saying one day when I grow up, I wanna do X
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Y Z in working with technology.
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What was it that, what was your path that got you kind of here in, as a, you know, additional
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transformational business consultants.
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What what So I'll I'll
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be very honest with you, Roxanne, when I was, maybe 9, 10, or perhaps even older, I was
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obsessed with the X Files, and I was obsessed with becoming an FBI agent.
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So all I knew was agent data scully wore really cool suits and everyone respected her.
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And so that was my dream at the time.
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But, you know, I almost came into the technology field, by accident.
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I was always encouraged to go into a moon female centric jobs, you know, marketing, HR,
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things like that, or even even into, nursing or being a doctor and stuff like that.
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But something about technology, and, you know, this was the nineties.
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We we got our first desktop computer in somewhere around 96.
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Or 95.
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And so something about it just attracted me.
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And I saw I decided to pursue an education in computing and information systems, and I
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realized that programming was something that I was very good at, structured thinking, breaking
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problems down into smaller pieces, addressing those pieces, using programming languages to
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resolve, you know, the the satisfaction that you get when you resolve something or when you
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compile the programming language, and it it turns out to be correct.
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I I don't know.
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These are things that I was really passionate about.
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And so I completed my studies in in a very, very tech centric field.
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And when I started looking for a job, I was coached by Accenture.
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And back then, they were called Anderson Consulting.
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And I was very much attracted to the cool consulting image, you know, and they had a
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really strong brand as well.
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And I found marrying the the topics between business consulting, working with clients to
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resolve problems and bringing technology in to resolve their business issues to create value.
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This is something I became very passionate about.
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And so I've stayed in that field for over 2 decades.
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And I'm still extremely passionate about it.
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And what I find today is the capabilities of technology.
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I call myself a technology optimist because I think technology can, and we'll solve a of
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problems and create so much value for the global masses if done correctly.
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And this is something that completely drives my passion.
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Wow.
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So so you'd really, you know, agent Scully didn't realize the impact that she was having,
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like, you as a little girl, but but, ultimately, you found something that you were
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passionate about what I which I often you know, so many people of their path, they don't get to
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be able to actualize some of the things that you're able to do.
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And again, likewise, myself, I've been really, really fortunate and my path was that I wanted
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to, you know, be able to make people feel better based on some of the things that I had
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seen relatively early.
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And ultimately, I'm, you know, when I work with leadership, it's about having them come in
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contact with their purpose and their voice.
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So it's interesting how, you know, as adult children, the the ideas that you, sperm you
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having.
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Absolutely.
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And and I got to wear the cool suits as well.
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So
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I've seen those suits on online.
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So let's then go to you know, the elements, we're we're talking about people and, you know,
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I've, you know, in years, when I was in corporate, so I'm gonna date myself into the
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eighties and and the nineties.
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This element of, you know, you know, servant leadership or or, shoulder to shoulder was,
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like, kind of the thing.
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It was like 2 it was too soft, right?
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Like, you you know, you go in.
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I would report to boards.
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I, you know, and oftentimes Roxanne personality had to stay at the front door.
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And be able to deliver on, you know, it was about, training analysis on, health and
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wellness strategies for huge companies.
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And I would always say there was something miss Right?
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You know, you that connection and you're dealing with people, and we were told, no.
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Don't.
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No.
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No real relationship.
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Just know what the customer needs.
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Look at the bottom line.
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Look at the industry.
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What is the trending analysis?
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What's the swadd analysis?
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And you keep going that way.
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That element, it's so refreshing.
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I can tell you, and I'm not in corporate anymore.
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To see the element of all the things that I knew when I was in corporate that was missing
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in in my internal space.
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So it's so nice to hear, like, even on digital transformation or even on the end that I work
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with leadership around, you know, mental resilience that we're actually starting it's we
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we have permission to be at the table to have this discussions, with boards and things like
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that.
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So let's talk about you said the people end of transformation.
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So tell me more about that and what you've kind of, you know, done with people in
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transformation.
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To your point, you're you're you're exposing companies to what is new but that's not the
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only thing that you're doing in with technology.
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Let's talk about the people and then how that fits in in kind of the the path to digital
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transformation.
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I mean, what I've experienced over the the time that I've worked with organizations, since the
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late nineties, early 2000, companies have always put a lot of faith into technology
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solutions.
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And we find that there's always a challenge with getting those technologies executed you
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know, and and one of the things that I've observed myself is if you don't take people on
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a journey, if they're not convinced about what those technologies are, whether it's your
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internal employees, your teams, or even your customer base.
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They're not going to use it to the maximum value that you intend for.
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And, you know, within within organizations, what I've observed is when we implement a tech
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solution, and it can be the the most in firing the best solution in the market, even the Rolls
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Royce of solution, the best that could be out there.
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If the people are not bought onto it, I've experienced that people tend to fall back on
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what they're comfortable with and what they know and what they feel is going to bring value
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for their daily business.
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And so linking back any solution or any strategy to what people do and how they use it
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is the most important thing.
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But taking it a step further in digital transformation, you want to get people to
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advocate for those solutions, not just use them, but tell other people And this is one of
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the strengths that we've seen over the last, you know, 15 years in social media has been out
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in market.
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One of the best elements of social media is word-of-mouth.
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Right?
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People telling other people what to use, when to use, how to use it, and it could be a
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stranger across the globe that you've never met but you take their word for it because they've
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used it in the experience, and that's the advocacy that we wanna look for.
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And so taking this experience into in in mind, as I started working more with leadership
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teams, C level teams, as well as board members and guiding them in leading organizations that
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are becoming more and more digital accepting more of these kind of digital adoption.
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What I started to realize is it's not just the people using the technology, but it the people
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leading and driving organizations as well.
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So the key element around the human factor or the people side of digital transformation is
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creating an ecosystem of stakeholders or people that are working together towards a similar
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direction.
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Within your organization, you have leadership teams, business owners, board members, you
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have, employees and you have teams of people working together and external to your
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organization.
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You have not just your customer base, but also partners, collaborators, and service providers,
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all of these people working together to create mutual benefit towards a digital future.
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And companies that are able to create this ecosystem of players that are working together
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are the ones that really truly are going to succeed in the digital future.
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We're going to see these ecosystem players really becoming quite common as well.
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If you look at within the blockchain space, what we do find is oftentimes within
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industries, we have consortiums being created.
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And these are ecosystems of, cooperatives.
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Right?
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Companies that would typically be, competing with each other, coming together for a
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corporation and creating a consortium environment where they work together to build a
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common solution.
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And this is something that we see digital transformation in new technologies driving more
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in the in the future.
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And so all of these elements, it's not so easy to create that environment.
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I think it is really about transforming your organization at different levels.
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Transforming your, the employee base or the people in the organization, creating more
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digital skillsets or developing more digital skillsets for them.
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Enabling more technology use for better collaboration, for better connection, and
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interactions communication, as well as then transforming leadership teams.
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The traditional corporate environment that you talked about earlier where we saw, traditional
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leadership capabilities those things are transforming in the current digital space.
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Leadership teams in the past, we used to, demand for more I'd like to say masculine
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skills, right, directive, very, pointed skills where the person who's leading or in charge in
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the room is one directing the team, directing decisions.
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We've shifted into an environment where knowledge is democratized, digital literacy is
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now, democratized.
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There's more digital literacy in the room.
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Oftentimes, more digital literacy with the employee base with more junior staff than with
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leadership teams.
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And so leadership teams have been forced into an environment to transform the way they lead
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these new teams.
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And the way they lead organizations in the future.
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So this shift, I find is very refreshing as well.
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Well, amazing because you may you may have somebody very, very junior.
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And they're coming in with massive.
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So it's not about skill set deficits.
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So you're gonna have a different conversation in that.
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You're you're gonna have someone coming in and sharing something So as the leader in the in
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the old school to your point, the leader generally had the information that they would
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be able to pass on and decide you know, through the level for starting in from the C suite all
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the way up down to the front line, but that's definite.
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So that's desilored, really, to some degree.
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You're seeing a lot of desilowing within organizations right now.
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Someone just starting could be very, very junior, but they may have lots more capacity
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than maybe somebody that's been there for a long time or equally the same.
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So that's an interesting dynamic if you think about that around the boardroom.
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Right?
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And then ultimately, how do you then, capitalize on that, that information in the
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marketplace?
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Like, how do you and I love the word ecosystem because to some degree, it's it's taking that
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pulse of your environments and deciding, you know, kind of with my in my book, what I talk
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about is you have to figure out what is really going on with leadership first because to go on
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this transformative journey, which I would love to talk more about, I often start with what
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where is the leadership team where they are are in the five areas that I talk about.
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So with you, tell me your process, when working with a an organization.
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What how what's the you know, I know there's some 6, you know, traits that you talk about,
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but even prior to that, what's the speed?
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How do you when you go into an environment, what's kind of your process to deal with with
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with an environment?
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So I I first have to preface every company is different and unique.
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It they may be in the same industry.
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They may be in the same business.
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But it's unique because every company has their own their own dynamics, their own value system,
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their own kind of set of of, elements that are dynamic that drive the the organization.
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Right?
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It's like a well oiled machine that functions in a certain way.
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So one of the first things that I do and and the methodology that I've described in the book
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It is a guide.
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It provides a guide for teams to navigate through digital transformation, but it is
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flexible enough in the sense that it can be customized for any size organization, any
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industry, it kind of puts you on the right path.
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And the first step, you know, it's always to think about, this is how I describe it to teams
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as well.
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You think about it as a journey.
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In any journey, you have to identify, first of all, where you are.
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And you identify where you want to go to.
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And that's what the framework first does.
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The first step is take stock of where you are in terms of your digital maturity and
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readiness, where you are in terms of your industry developments, your competitive
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landscape, the trends that are impacting your business, not just today, but also 2 or 3 down
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years down the line, the kinds of customers that you're serving, the kinds of customers you
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intend to serve in the future and the longevity of your business model as well.
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So testing the current environment of your business And understanding, you know, does this
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business, need to change?
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If so, where does it need to go in the future?
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And then we set a the next step is really around disruptive visioning.
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So really coming in from the inside out perspective and trying to define a vision for
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your organization where you need to get to, and what your organization needs to be doing in 3
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to 5 years.
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And I say 3 to 5 years simply because the market is very dynamic today.
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In 3 to 5 years, you can see organizations completely crumble as well as, startups become
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a $1,000,000,000 businesses.
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That is really the market we're playing in today.
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And so driving this kind of vision of where you need to be in 3 to 5 years in order to really
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sustain your your presence in the market.
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And then defining a road map, a strategic road map around what needs to get done and not just
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from a technology implementation perspective, but really looking at building blocks around
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what do you need to be doing with your customer base to create those hyper personalized, you
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know, connections with them that's going to connect them to your organization and brand in
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the long term.
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Looking at your product and service portfolio, are you producing the right things?
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And should you be doing something different or offering something different for the digital
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environment as well?
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And then looking at your employee base or your organizational environment, your operational
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environment, are you doing things in the most, effective and efficient way?
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Do your people in the organization have the right skill sets?
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And all of these kind of questions around organization structure and also your business
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model.
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Is this the revenue stream that's going to last you in the longer term?
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Can you create more of the new streams?
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A simple example to that is many organizations today do sit on a massive amount of data and
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data can be monetized if you are able to understand how to do that or how best to do
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that.
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And so these are elements that, you know, we can find new revenue streams and new ways for
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companies to monetize.
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So once we create that road map, we prioritize it, and we look at you know, companies
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typically work with a limited set of resources and investment.
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So where should you be putting your time and money and people?
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What's the best returns you can find.
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And then finally, we go into the implementation of those elements.
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So the the whole process takes between, you know, 3 to 6 months, but we do end up typically
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working with companies up to 2 to 3 years because this is really an evolution process.
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It's a journey.
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And every time I work with organizations, they're almost surprised that, okay.
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This is something, you know, we need to keep going because we're finding now.
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Let's keep going on this journey.
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And so this is something I absolutely love, though, because you get stuck in.
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You get really into, you know, with the organization.
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You go on this journey with them.
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You see the proof to the pudding basically at the end.
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Right.
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Because, I mean, you think it's 3 to 6 months off the tax report thinking, oh, no.
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That's gonna be too long.
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But then when they start to take the steps and I'm gonna assume they're starting to see the
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lights and saying, wow, this is more, at you know, they're seeing the impact of the actions
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that you would have, you know, suggested that they implement and then wanting, okay, if this
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is working so well, you know, what next and what next So let's talk a little bit about
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those 6 traits that so you really like you said, you go, there's two things that you said
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Kamala said, I love.
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You know, inside out, which is like, we have to we have to look and see ready, and you have to
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be really truthful, I think, going through this process about you know, I mean, love the fact
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that I created this product, but when when you kind of go through this analysis, you're
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realizing it's taking this much hours and the revenue stream is really, you know, you're
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always pumping air into it, and it's not so good.
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So you have to really be willing and and to be transparent with what is Another thing you
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talked a little bit about is leadership and what leaders need to do to connect to the
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customer And I I wanna talk more about this.
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I think that's very, very vital.
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Like you said, with with things like social media, you know, I if I have a bad experience
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today and I put something on and I've got a big enough following.
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I can quite quickly disrupt, something within a company.
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Right?
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So we have a lot of power as the consumer.
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So let's so in the book, you talked about those 6 traits because you said, you know, it's the
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it's the vision.
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Right?
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Like, Everybody has to buy into the vision, but the lee it starts with the CEO or the senior
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team.
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So tell me how you kind of work with them.
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Let you know, you might have a CEO that that thinks, Lardiance associates, we we definitely
22:44
do wanna work with you, but you know, with teams that have been working together for a
22:47
long time, there's history, there's disconnections, there's people that have, some
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implicit power that we may or may not know about, or there's alliances, all that stuff.
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So with with c with CEOs that you've worked well with, meaning that let's say they're a
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good CEO or somebody with that can transform, but they're working with a difficult kind of
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senior team.
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What is your approach with with, an environment like that?
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So I I 1st of all, I think to preface that, leadership teams, you know, and many companies,
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let me start with this.
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Many companies do approach digital transformation with a technology team or a
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transformation team.
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And one of the biggest challenges with that is you can take the transformation to a sitting
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level to a project or initiative implementation level.
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But in order to re benefit from digital transformation.
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You need to transform organization wide.
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And something that I personally experienced and had to learn was I had to 1st transform as a
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leader in order to initiate transformation in organizations.
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And this was something that what's, you know, with any transformation, with any journey that
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we go on.
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And I think you have this detail out in your book as well, which I found really refreshing
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because we had a really nice alignment to the work that, you know, that I do on the ground
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with the customers as well.
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Really transforming means looking at yourself, your leadership style, your approach in an
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organization, the way you are, you know, how self aware you are, also how you connect with,
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your team, how you motivate teams.
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And this is something I had to learn by doing, right, going through that transformation
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process myself.
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And so today, I do a lot of digital mindset coaching for leadership teams and board
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members.
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And this means you know, oftentimes, I'll be very honest.
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They are older men, who lead organizations.
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And it is very interesting because we do tend to have very different we come from a cookie, a
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different mindset.
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And one of the experiences I had during COVID was I was doing a coaching with a person from,
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you know, who had 35, 40 years experience in leadership.
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And he had never led an organization where people were not physically present.
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And so he broke down in tears because this was extremely challenging, right, for someone who
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had a secretary who did most of his digital interactions.
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And now he would have to face this on his own and kind of lead people and lead teams.
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It meant letting go of control.
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It meant trusting people, beyond your physical space.
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So these kinds of transformations, and, you know, what I did with him was we entered into
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the the virtual reality space metaverse and we did our coaching sessions in there.
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And he completely forgot that we were not physically together in the same room.
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And so this was, I think, an eye opening moment because he realized, okay, technology has the
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ability to extend our capabilities.
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If we use it in in the right way, if we know how to use it, we can go beyond zoom.
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We can go into a space where we feel like we're connected with one another.
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It's almost, you know, almost reality, I would say.
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So one of the things I do with leadership teams, in the formal project environment is
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really to look at stakeholder analysis.
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And I can sell you from experience.
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There's always one person in the room who doesn't buy who doesn't buy you.
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At least at least one.
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And it's usually either the head of of technology or, you know, the the head of HR or
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something like this.
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Somehow the trends are, you know, undeniable.
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But a stakeholder analysis helps to understand, you know, who the people are in the room.
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What kind of influence they have.
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Who do I need to connect with to get buy in and to empower, to transform and I do work very
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closely with leadership teams because even if you come in from the the roots, right, from the
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ground up to transform the company, leadership teams drive the real transformation.
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It is the top down that can implement organization wide change.
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You need that top down mandate.
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And then a big part of that means taking people on this journey, leadership teams need to
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transform.
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What I found in my experience and maybe you can share your experiencing this as well.
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You can't transform unless you're ready to.
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Right.
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And this is where I choose my battles.
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There are some leadership teams that are you know, ready to go on that journey with us to
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transform the organization.
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And there are other team members who might say, we just want to implement a project.
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And then it's they're not ready and it's not the time.
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And so this this is really a journey.
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It's an evolution.
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We go on this journey with the company.
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As far as their readiness is, and we take them to the next step as far as they want to go, but
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you can't force this transformation either.
27:38
Within the book, I do detail a couple of things that I've observed.
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Leadership teams, business leaders need to have in the digital future.
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So I've detailed those out as 6 traits for leadership for future organizations.
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And this involves one of the key things is really abundance thinking or abundance mindset.
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And that is being able to think beyond your current boundaries.
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Current industry boundaries, current business boundaries, current physical boundaries.
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We have now with new technologies, the ability to enter new markets, to, you know, even
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startups can have on day 1 of business access to a global marketplace.
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So our traditional industry boundary you know, our our physical boundaries as well.
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You don't need a branch to enter a market.
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You don't need a physical office.
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Companies can exist virtually and still be a $1,000,000 business.
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And so these traditional boundaries are no longer valid.
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And business leaders need to be able to think beyond those boundaries and understand that
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technology creates those seamless, existence as well.
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The other element is really around empowering people, being able to, trust that your teams
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can do what they are meant to do and empowering them to do it.
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And a good amount of this is, you know, understanding that failure is a learning, a
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learning process, that you have to develop with failure.
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Without failure, you don't learn, and this is a key element that many corporates don't tend to
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embrace.
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I would say the next element is around consciousness and empathy, which is really,
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really important.
29:10
To be aware of your round your surroundings, to be aware of why people do what they do.
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And what people behave in the way they behave.
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And what I've learned is resistance to change usually comes from an element of fear fear of,
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using controls, fear of not knowing something or not understanding something, fear of
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becoming irrelevant in the tech environment, And so understanding this and having empathy
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towards it and having an understanding for how we can take people on that journey you know,
29:38
you can learn new skills.
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It's not difficult to learn.
29:41
You have to shift the way you look at your role.
29:44
All of these kinds of of things need empathy and a certain amount of vulnerability to
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connect with people.
29:50
Looking at, flexibility and adaptability, we've seen a lot of that during the COVID
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environment, which is the next element.
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So within COVID, many businesses were able to pivot and transform and very quickly shift and
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adapt to the new environments, which is the non physical space.
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And also closest customers, which is something we mentioned, What I found very surprising, is
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most C level executives don't have direct interactions with their customer base.
30:19
And they, you know, rely on HR or marketing teams or even sales teams to get an
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understanding for the people on the ground.
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And this is this is, I think, this should change.
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We see many organizations now taking their c levels.
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2 branches to connect with customers, you know, on-site really to understand how people use
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their products and services, what their needs are, what is the problem space?
30:44
And I think this connection makes these leadership teams more human as well, and more
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accessible.
30:51
So these are some, great examples I'd like to see more Britts, incorporate.
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And the last one is, of course, courage and conviction.
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Transformation, digital transformation can be a really tough process.
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And you need people who are bold enough to initiate and to stick with it and to drive that
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change.
31:08
So those are the elements that I detail out in the book.
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Well, I I think it's your point.
31:13
Right?
31:13
You can only take a team as far as they're willing to go.
31:15
And I I say sometimes it's pockets of work that you do.
31:19
You do it.
31:19
You can only take them along that far.
31:21
And then if there's you recognize the next steps that they need to make and you're getting
31:25
massive pushback, then that means they're ready not they're not ready to take the next step of
31:31
the journey, and you have to say that to them.
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You know, I think we've done, you know, really good work together.
31:36
This is where I think we need to go.
31:37
This is my sense of what I'm getting from your environment.
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You know, you need to reflect on this and give me direction because, of course, you know, it's
31:45
like you'd be doing that tug of war, to one end.
31:48
And then you're not gonna be able to create the change, and then that's the legacy of you being
31:52
in the environment and you wanna leave on that note that you've done the part that you agreed
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to.
31:58
This was such a great interview that we decided to turn it into a 2 part series.
32:02
Be sure to tune in next week for part 2 so you don't miss out on the amazing content.
32:09
Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
32:14
healthy change.
32:15
Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
32:22
roxannedurhaj.com/blueprint.
32:26
We'll see you next time, an authentic living with Roxanne.