Latest / Rusty's Garage / Chris Atkinson (Part 1)

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Chris Atkinson (Part 1) · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:11
  I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust and this is Rusty's Garage.
• 0:29
  For this episode, my guest and I are split by the Tasman.
• 0:33
  I'm in New Zealand and he's in Brisbane at the Car Expert office there where he's now a test driver and working with their review team.
• 0:41
  Chris Atkinson is an Aussie rally driver who made his mark in just about all corners of the globe.
• 0:48
  I can recall working with him on the Australian Championship coverage in the early 2000s when he first burst onto the scene.
• 0:55
  From a family with rallying in their veins, he rapidly climbed the ladder, and I mean rapidly.
• 1:01
  From accolades as a privateer to Asia-Pacific titles, plus podiums and 41 stage wins in the World Rally Championship, where he got to drive a number of different WRC cars during his time there.
• 1:15
  Talk about envy.
• 1:16
  Not to mention some of the legends that he hung out with.
• 1:20
  We'll talk about that too.
• 1:21
  He is fast, unapologetic about his ten-tenths approach.
• 1:26
  There were frustrations, which you'll hear about, that prevented him from putting full campaigns together at times.
• 1:32
  But Chris created and found new opportunities.
• 1:36
  More recently, it's been in the United States, blending some of his circuit racing experience with his first love.
• 1:43
  Rallycross is a hell of a show, and it brought him back into the iconic blue Subaru colours.
• 1:50
  Seems like yesterday that he was a little tacker in Bega, south-east New South Wales, where there are some awesome rally roads.
• 1:58
  would have been three or four years old and standing on the side of the road and my dad doing the big valley rally, which he won a few times.
• 2:05
  So, yeah, that's where it all started.
• 2:06
  Like my first experience in a rally car was strapped in one of those old foam car seats in Bega in the back roads hitting jumps with my dad, like with a harness on it at three or four years of age.
• 2:19
  So, yeah, that's where it started.
• 2:21
  Take us there.
• 2:21
  What kind of car?
• 2:22
  Because when I look back at your dad's history, I can recall Ford Escorts, Nissan Stanza, Triple S's.
• 2:27
  What was that car that you went for a ride in?
• 2:29
  Can you remember?
• 2:30
  That would have been the Stanza, the Datsun Stanza, which was like a Pluto pup color.
• 2:34
  Actually a really cool car.
• 2:35
  Real drive, sounds amazing.
• 2:38
  He did go into Subarus, funnily enough, after that, the all-wheel drive, the first sort of all-wheel drive rally cars from Subarus.
• 2:44
  But that's the one I remember, that real drive Stanza.
• 2:48
  He's a winner of the New South Wales Rally Championship.
• 2:51
  He's in the record books there.
• 2:52
  I think the 1980 win would have been when you were one year old.
• 2:56
  Yeah, I don't know how mum was dealing with that.
• 3:00
  With me running around...
• 3:02
  I wanted to touch, though, mate, on two wheels before we get too far into rallying and cars because he was actually pretty handy back in the day on two wheels, I think, your dad, wasn't he?
• 3:12
  I mean, some enduro riding there, and he's had BMW 1200s, a KTM 990 Super Duke, and am I right in saying he has done a Himalayan tour on a Royal Enfield?
• 3:25
  Is that true?
• 3:25
  Yeah, I don't think it was a smart idea, but...
• 3:29
  Pretty much ended up in hospital.
• 3:30
  Did he?
• 3:31
  Yeah.
• 3:32
  Not from an accident, just from food poisoning.
• 3:34
  And yeah, didn't have the great experience there.
• 3:37
  He's probably a bit older than he thought he was.
• 3:39
  And they just had a tough time up there.
• 3:42
  But yeah, he loves adventure, loves getting amongst it.
• 3:46
  Before I was born, things like the AMCO 1000, Desert Race.
• 3:51
  Yeah, so...
• 3:53
  It's funny how, because his parents weren't into motorsport at all.
• 3:56
  So my grandfather was more into business, quite successful in that.
• 4:04
  And then for some reason, dad just loved cars, loved motorsport and just found his own way with it.
• 4:10
  Got into bikes, raced on Husfarnas in motocross and desert races.
• 4:15
  He just got out there and got amongst it.
• 4:17
  A different time and era.
• 4:19
  Yeah, what he did and what he went through, I think he almost killed himself in a motocross race.
• 4:24
  He was in hospital with lung shock, like both legs broken, arms broken, into the tree line, like at a hundred mile an hour.
• 4:34
  So he's been through a lot.
• 4:35
  Then he figured out that a car was probably a safer option and gone into rallying.
• 4:39
  And to be honest, if he didn't do that, then I wouldn't have gone rallying, I guess, because that's that's how it sort of all evolves, isn't it?
• 4:46
  It is.
• 4:47
  Ironically, though, mate, although the two wheel misadventures might have put him off, it didn't put you off.
• 4:53
  You actually ended up doing a bit of motorbike stuff when you were younger.
• 4:56
  Tell us about that.
• 4:57
  What was the first bike and how did that all get started?
• 4:59
  Just one of those things, you know, young boys need to have an outlet.
• 5:03
  And then we got, I'd say, like a little like 80, it's a DT80, like a Suzuki.
• 5:12
  The first sort of race bike was a KX80 and then started some motocross, which was fun.
• 5:19
  I can't say I was like amazing at it.
• 5:21
  I was just, it was a decent ride, sort of A grade, club level.
• 5:25
  There were some young kids around at that time.
• 5:28
  who went on to race Supercross in Australia and that from the Gold Coast.
• 5:32
  Chris Urquhart, who still does stuff around, I see on bikes these days and raced a bit of Supercross.
• 5:38
  And it was a great experience.
• 5:40
  I think it sort of built the foundation of my understanding of –
• 5:44
  competing and driving fast, but maybe wasn't a natural thing for me.
• 5:49
  And then I started to get a few, you know, when you push the boundaries, you know, broken arms, broken wrists, things going on.
• 5:55
  And my schooling started to drop a little bit.
• 5:56
  So mum and dad was sort of like, you've got to sort of ease back on the racing till your grades get better.
• 6:03
  And not that they were bad, they were probably just not ideal.
• 6:06
  And then funnily enough, I ended up getting a scholarship to university off my grades.
• 6:10
  So,
• 6:12
  It's interesting how things work out.
• 6:14
  We'll get to your university in a minute.
• 6:16
  Just in wrapping up the bike stuff and, you know, you've touched on injuries and things like that.
• 6:21
  Was it a window into your...
• 6:24
  competitive nature or was it pure passion and love of the machine or a mix of both?
• 6:28
  What was it that was kind of coming out at that stage?
• 6:32
  I think that's pretty clear with me is the competitive side.
• 6:35
  Like I'm not a – as much as I love cars and I've loved cars growing up, et cetera, I wouldn't call myself a car nut, absolutely, but I'm competitive personally.
• 6:45
  So, if I find something I'm good at, like everything goes into it, you know.
• 6:49
  So, that's sort of why my career evolved that way when I realised quite early on I was decent at rallying, then a lot of energy went into that.
• 6:57
  So, and if I'm not good at something, I brush it off pretty quick and find something that I like and want to do.
• 7:04
  Share with the audience because in truth...
• 7:08
  your rallying actually started in the other seat, didn't it?
• 7:11
  As a, as a navigator.
• 7:12
  Which was very silly.
• 7:14
  What were you like as a co-driver?
• 7:15
  Come on.
• 7:16
  Useless.
• 7:16
  Absolutely useless.
• 7:18
  I remember one of my brother's mates.
• 7:19
  So my brother bought a rally car.
• 7:20
  We were at uni, um, an old Corolla, real drive Corolla, 1971 Corolla.
• 7:26
  Um,
• 7:27
  just to go and have fun.
• 7:28
  And he obviously remembered my dad rallying being a couple of years older.
• 7:31
  So he remembered that and went out, got a car.
• 7:33
  It was like 10 grand or something, you know, and just wanted to have some fun.
• 7:36
  And yeah, I went around the streets a couple of times in it, but my first go was with one of his mates as a co-driver.
• 7:43
  And it's not like I was scared.
• 7:45
  I was just useless at it.
• 7:47
  I sent him up the wrong road.
• 7:50
  Like I had no idea what I was doing, absolutely no idea.
• 7:52
  And probably realized, like we were saying before, realized that I wasn't any good at it.
• 7:56
  So I lost interest pretty quick.
• 7:58
  Great stuff though with your brother.
• 7:59
  I mean, Ben is still co-driving even now.
• 8:01
  I see him at events from time to time.
• 8:03
  So, you know, cool way for you both to get started.
• 8:07
  Yeah, so I even co-drove for him in an event as well.
• 8:10
  So there were the KCF rally sprints up here and,
• 8:14
  and sort of the Queensland Championship round.
• 8:16
  So, I did a...
• 8:17
  I'd say I probably co-drove two or three times.
• 8:20
  I've tried to block it out of my memory, so I don't remember it too much.
• 8:24
  But pretty quickly, I convinced him to let me have a go at driving his car, and then I crashed it on the second stage.
• 8:30
  So, that was my introduction to driving.
• 8:35
  But somewhere there, you obviously decide to...
• 8:38
  explore the driving side of it further.
• 8:41
  You know, you weren't put off by that incident.
• 8:43
  And there's a good story about you going to a rally school with Neil Bates's brother, Rick Bates, and sort of learning to tune the skills.
• 8:52
  Is that right?
• 8:53
  Yeah.
• 8:53
  So it must have been before I did the, I may be co-driven a couple of times and Rick was doing these rally schools where you get 10, 15 people along and sort of help people with their
• 9:08
  braver man than me to be honest because he's just jumping in with randoms.
• 9:12
  They had no idea, especially me, what they were doing.
• 9:14
  And I went up and down the road with Rick and he goes, oh, how long have you been racing?
• 9:19
  And I go, oh, my first go driving on dirt.
• 9:22
  And he goes, oh, you're a fair bit quicker than my brother.
• 9:27
  And he'd been racing for two years, so he thought it might be a good idea that I got behind the wheel.
• 9:32
  And obviously it was great advice from Rick and great to have that opportunity, you know, to sit in with someone like that and see what he did as well at time.
• 9:42
  And I've always had that experience throughout my career where guys have helped by taking me for a ride in the car.
• 9:47
  And I think it opens your eyes to what the potential is, and that's so cool.
• 9:51
  So at what point did the conversation happen then that you would literally
• 9:55
  kind of trade places and pursue this.
• 9:59
  But I ask that in a two-pronged sense here, Chris, because when you bought that Evo 5, I think the actual plan was that you'd all have a go and share different aspects and even your dad might do some driving again.
• 10:11
  Is that right?
• 10:11
  The idea of dad would do some tarmac rally sprints.
• 10:13
  There were some little rally sprints getting around on the Gold Coast at those times.
• 10:16
  Ben would do like the KCF rally, rally short course stuff, and then I would go and do the Queensland Championship.
• 10:23
  And so this would have been just after I'd crashed his bright green little Corolla.
• 10:30
  Has he not forgiven you for that?
• 10:31
  Probably not.
• 10:32
  Probably not.
• 10:34
  But, yeah, that sort of led us to buy that Evo 5 off the Shepherds who were into rallying up here, George Shepard.
• 10:42
  And I saw Steve Shepard actually the other day, funnily enough.
• 10:45
  So that was our first serious rally car.
• 10:48
  So we realised and Dad called up Ed Ordinsky, who he knew from back in the day.
• 10:53
  And Ed was obviously at the top of the Australian Championship around those times.
• 10:57
  And he basically said, you need to be in an all-wheel drive rally car and you need to be doing pace notes as soon as possible.
• 11:04
  And that was sort of awesome advice.
• 11:06
  Like that really sort of got us going in the right direction.
• 11:10
  Like I think I've done...
• 11:12
  two blind rallies in my time, you know, unpaced, yet most of the state championships were all blind rallies.
• 11:19
  So I think getting onto pace nights so early and making them a big part of my career were critical, but back to the Evo anyway.
• 11:27
  So dad ended up maybe doing one rally sprint.
• 11:30
  I don't even know if Ben even got to do a KCF in the Evo.
• 11:35
  And the first round of the Queensland Championship, I think I was leading
• 11:39
  straight away and so that was my second rally after i'd crashed the corolla and we had a i remember a boost pipe got um stuck um so we lost boost and i think we finished second or third um and one group n or whatever but that was my first basically my first rally so it seemed to be um
• 12:01
  something that I was decent at straight away.
• 12:04
  And it was the beginning of what would be a meteoric rise that would get you to the WRC within something like a four year period.
• 12:12
  It was an insane cram of learning, wasn't it?
• 12:16
  Yeah, when you think about it, like from like, and I started so late really at 20 years of age, basically, nearly 21, like I was working in a stockbroking firm.
• 12:26
  I'd left uni and was working in a stockbroking firm in Brisbane.
• 12:30
  And then my rally career started.
• 12:32
  So it's from what, 2001, then to be in the WIC and started 2005.
• 12:36
  Yeah, it's a pretty crazy time.
• 12:41
  But a lot of things had to fall into place then.
• 12:42
  You know, it was all timing and effort and putting the pieces of the puzzle together and
• 12:49
  and even just random meetings at airports with people that you've never met before that all of a sudden lead to a WRC drive.
• 12:55
  So it's, it didn't feel crazy at the time to be honest, but when you look back at it like that, it does, it does look a bit crazy how it all went down.
• 13:02
  I'm glad you bring up Bond University and stockbroking and things like that.
• 13:07
  What was the degree that you did and were you any good as a stockbroker?
• 13:11
  Has it helped you in later life?
• 13:13
  I did a finance accounting major.
• 13:14
  So I went to Bond Uni, was fortunate to get a scholarship to go there.
• 13:19
  So that helped mum and dad out.
• 13:21
  Not that racing probably did after that anyway.
• 13:23
  But yeah, so I went there and then straight out of uni, went to work at Morgan.
• 13:28
  So it was Bell Morgan.
• 13:30
  It's now Bell Potter, a stockbroking firm.
• 13:33
  And learn a lot.
• 13:35
  Like I had no idea what I was doing, to be honest.
• 13:36
  You learn a bit.
• 13:37
  It was like this tech boom time.
• 13:38
  There was money getting thrown everywhere and then money getting lost pretty quickly as well.
• 13:42
  So it did form.
• 13:44
  Like I still trade a lot today.
• 13:45
  And it's actually quite a good passion of mine.
• 13:50
  So it's something I enjoy to do.
• 13:55
  And I guess without that background, I wouldn't be doing that as much.
• 13:59
  you'd hand the money over to someone else that knew what they were doing.
• 14:01
  But yeah, I, I enjoy it.
• 14:03
  And, um, and it's funny how you sort of, it's great to have that foundation to come back to, um, later in life.
• 14:11
  And, and I think it's something that will, will be a benefit for the rest of my life as well.
• 14:16
  Like knowing how to invest, understanding markets and, and having those seen those experiences as well of, of like, I'm,
• 14:24
  more of a cautious investor than you even hear on the golf course these days.
• 14:28
  Like someone hears of a stock tip and you can always bet it's gonna go the other way.
• 14:32
  It's already too late once it's there.
• 14:34
  So it's good to have seen those things and have that experience.
• 14:38
  So you have that phone call with Ed Ordinsky who talks about the importance of getting your head around pace notes and things like that.
• 14:46
  How did that process go?
• 14:48
  Who helped you with that?
• 14:49
  And then when did the idea of Roto
• 14:52
  let's have a crack at an Australian rally championship round.
• 14:55
  When did that sort of venture into discussion?
• 14:57
  Basically happened straight away.
• 14:59
  He basically said you need to go to pace noted events and the only pace noted events was coming up was Rally of Canberra.
• 15:06
  I might have missed one.
• 15:07
  There might have been a KCF rally sprinting there, but say my third proper rally was Rally of Canberra in 2001.
• 15:15
  So we basically went straight into it and...
• 15:20
  My notes are really based off Ed's notes.
• 15:23
  That was sort of the foundation of my notes.
• 15:27
  He talked me through it.
• 15:28
  I sat in the car with him and spent a lot of time sort of understanding.
• 15:32
  He used 1 to 10.
• 15:33
  I used 1 to 10.
• 15:35
  And so his encouragement there, his support, like that really just –
• 15:42
  was a foundation of what I think was a big part of my success, which was my pace notes.
• 15:48
  So the effort we used to put into pace notes, I'd drive around for hours on end at night at like 40 kilometres an hour on the back roads of the Gold Coast, and we'd just drive around writing pace notes for hours and hours every night.
• 16:04
  I don't know why I did it.
• 16:05
  I just saw the importance of it.
• 16:07
  And we just, me and Ben would just go out in the road car and just drive around writing pace notes and checking them and not driving fast, like just checking the notes, going, okay, that makes sense.
• 16:20
  And I think that really built the foundation.
• 16:24
  And I saw early on, like there's a lot of people that write notes and it never, it was just like six right, six left, six right, six left.
• 16:32
  where's the difference?
• 16:33
  Where's the picture?
• 16:35
  And so my pace notes are about painting a picture in my mind.
• 16:38
  So even though you can't see the road, the notes relay a picture back to you.
• 16:44
  And so there has to be a point of difference, even if it's subtle, but then it comes to your mind a lot easier, the picture.
• 16:50
  Where if I just said six right, six left, six right, he was like, well, they're not all the same.
• 16:55
  You know, there's differences.
• 16:56
  And I think that foundation and Ed's
• 17:01
  point of saying how important the page notes were really made a difference early on.
• 17:06
  It's a unique language, Chris, that you have to get used to and you have to, as you say, more or less tailor it to you so that it works for you.
• 17:16
  How quickly did it get to the point of you being able to digest it, to trust it?
• 17:22
  And at the same time, you're trusting your brother here.
• 17:25
  So did that ever create moments of tension between the peer review or was it always a great experience?
• 17:30
  I'd say as the speed evolved, then maybe more tension came in because the importance of the note being on time and correct just goes up a level every gear you go up.
• 17:43
  You know, that's just critical.
• 17:46
  Not saying with Ben, but even with other co-drivers, you'll hear me a lot of times saying, yep, yep, yep.
• 17:51
  Like, I need the note.
• 17:52
  I need the note.
• 17:53
  Like, you want it, like, urgently.
• 17:55
  I'd say that's the biggest thing.
• 17:56
  And because there is a fair amount of information in my notes, it makes it hard...
• 18:00
  you know, for the co-driver in terms of timing it.
• 18:03
  And it's got to still flow.
• 18:04
  So they've got to know when to be quick, when to be slow.
• 18:07
  And when you see their booklets, like with Stefan, the underlying and the colours, it's all mean different paces for him to read at.
• 18:14
  Like it's such a skill.
• 18:16
  And Ben was a really good co-driver.
• 18:18
  Yeah.
• 18:18
  And still is, like you said, he's still out there doing some co-driving.
• 18:21
  And why I guess we drifted apart there, like it just wasn't gelling perfectly.
• 18:27
  And I was pushing so hard, like in every aspect.
• 18:30
  I was probably too hard on him, to be honest.
• 18:33
  And like from the fitness side to everything, it was like I don't...
• 18:37
  Why I was so into it, who knows?
• 18:39
  But, yeah, it was just everything like your diet.
• 18:42
  Yeah, I was probably an absolute arsehole to him.
• 18:45
  But I was just like I knew where I wanted to go.
• 18:49
  And I think I remember actually I remember one corner and it was in New Zealand.
• 18:55
  And I remember I was in the Suzuki, the Super 1600 car.
• 18:57
  And...
• 18:59
  I took this one corner like I'd never taken a corner before.
• 19:03
  And actually, Dad saw the other side of it, me coming out of it, and you were just so committed to the note, to knowing exactly where the car needed to be.
• 19:12
  And I was up against a guy called Nicky Shelley, who's...
• 19:17
  a German guy, awesome guy.
• 19:19
  I went and spent time with him in Germany.
• 19:22
  And it was the first time I really started to take him down as a teammate, like time-wise, just like, just step it up a notch.
• 19:28
  And it was just commitment to the notes, like that everything was positioned before the corner, that you were in exactly the right spot at exactly the right speed, all because of that pace note on your first pass.
• 19:39
  You know, you were just on it.
• 19:41
  And that's probably the time...
• 19:43
  which would have been in 2003, that sort of, I've really found my speed, I'd say.
• 19:50
  Amazing.
• 19:51
  There's lots of different co-drivers.
• 19:52
  I mean, we're digressing here for a second, mate.
• 19:54
  We've talked about Ben.
• 19:55
  Glenn McNeil was in there, obviously.
• 19:57
  You've mentioned Stefan.
• 19:58
  He represents at the WRC level a significant portion of your career.
• 20:03
  What was that relationship like?
• 20:05
  How well did it work and so on?
• 20:07
  Obviously, when sort of Glenn and I separated then,
• 20:13
  Um, I was, we were looking around for a new co-driver at ProDrive.
• 20:17
  So we made a list, um, and we had a sort of a short list and I won't name names on there, but Stefan Sarrazan rang me up out of the blue, um, who had done some F1 and was into rallying, um,
• 20:33
  And he basically said, if you're going to pick anyone, pick...
• 20:37
  I've had Stefan Prevost in the car and he was absolutely amazing.
• 20:42
  And he was on our list and...
• 20:46
  Yeah, we gave Stefan a call, he came to a test and it just worked straight away.
• 20:51
  And I literally, it would be not even a hand, out of how many thousands and thousands of corners we've done, like it would be less than a handful that you would have any slight issue with.
• 21:03
  It's just crazy how good he is in the car.
• 21:06
  Such a professional.
• 21:07
  That's all he's... His dad was a doctor and his dad really wanted to be a doctor as well.
• 21:13
  And he was just so into rallying growing up and realized he could be a driver.
• 21:17
  And sort of from the mid-80s just became a professional co-driver and loved it and has been ever since.
• 21:25
  And the guys he sat with and his career...
• 21:28
  Obviously, I haven't sat with every co-driver, but he's got to be top three in the world.
• 21:31
  And everyone who ever has him as co-driver is just blown away.
• 21:35
  He doesn't get overly involved in politics.
• 21:37
  He just gets on with his job, does the job, keeps it calm.
• 21:41
  Like, he'll pull up because he was obviously French-speaking Belgian.
• 21:46
  So we'd all...
• 21:47
  Funny, after stages, you all sort of pull up in different groups who you want to hang out with.
• 21:51
  And so we'd always be with Sebastian Loeb and Daniel Eleanor and the three of them are just there smoking on the side of the road, just chilling out on the random Aussie.
• 22:01
  We're just talking shit.
• 22:02
  And that was sort of our after stage routine.
• 22:06
  You'd have a...
• 22:07
  cigarette and they'd all just chill on the side of the road and then get back in and get ready to get going.
• 22:13
  And it was just a really relaxed but professional environment.
• 22:17
  And it's just, yeah, like I can't speak highly enough of him.
• 22:21
  I want to conclude the Australian Championship here, that portion of your career.
• 22:25
  And you've mentioned about the Suzuki a moment ago and how you went and did some stuff for Monster Tajima, which was huge too.
• 22:33
  Good period for the ARC.
• 22:34
  Names like Cody Crocker, Dean Herridge, Ed Odinski, who you've mentioned.
• 22:38
  For you in that Group N phase, mate, I think there's a...
• 22:42
  There's a privateer's title.
• 22:44
  There are, you know, top five stage times.
• 22:47
  I mean, just it was, as we reflected before, it really was a steep and meteoric rise, wasn't it?
• 22:54
  It was sort of crazy.
• 22:56
  We had no understanding.
• 22:57
  Like, we had no idea about the car.
• 22:58
  We had no idea about differential suspension, everything like that.
• 23:01
  So...
• 23:02
  That Evo basically had no front differential.
• 23:05
  It was basically just a very basic beginner's Evo.
• 23:10
  We had no idea.
• 23:12
  Imagine this is our third rally and you're straight into that.
• 23:17
  It was heavy.
• 23:18
  It wasn't...
• 23:19
  It was built just to be a reliable sort of customer car call.
• 23:23
  It wasn't there.
• 23:23
  And we were reasonably competitive in it, but we had no idea what we were doing.
• 23:26
  Absolutely no idea.
• 23:27
  So, I'm learning all the time about suspension and stuff like that.
• 23:30
  But really, we just put a setting in and go, okay, let's go and try and have some fun and do some quick times.
• 23:36
  And once we started to understand that, I think in the second year, so then we're, okay, we need a front differential.
• 23:40
  That might help.
• 23:41
  Things like that.
• 23:42
  some better dampers.
• 23:43
  We'll try and make the car a bit lighter.
• 23:45
  So then it got a bit more serious.
• 23:47
  And I think that's the year we won the Privatives Cup.
• 23:51
  But I think where it sort of kicked off was came back to rallying at Canberra.
• 23:55
  So a year later, so the Asia Pacific round.
• 23:57
  And that's obviously when we caught Monster's Eye and Paul Wilding, who was there working for him, who sort of pushed for us to be involved.
• 24:05
  And that led to a test in Japan.
• 24:09
  And it must have been...
• 24:12
  Winter in Hokkaido.
• 24:14
  So we're up in the North Island of Japan.
• 24:17
  And myself and Richard Mason were asked to go up and test his Suzuki.
• 24:22
  And it was really a showdown between the two of us to see who got the drive.
• 24:26
  So this was my first chance at getting a, basically a paid drive.
• 24:30
  And what were we two years into rallying?
• 24:32
  And the test was a Gymkhana monster set up around the car park in the Super 1600.
• 24:40
  And it went down to, like, obviously personality and things like that, who was getting along with everyone.
• 24:46
  But it was basically this Jim Karner in the car park to see who would win.
• 24:51
  And I think he stalled, to be honest, somewhere during it.
• 24:55
  I won for, like, 10 seconds.
• 24:57
  And that was it.
• 24:58
  Then you had to drive.
• 24:59
  Like, it was just so random that that's where that decision was made.
• 25:02
  And that could have been Richard Mason, which he's obviously done a lot of stuff in New Zealand as well.
• 25:07
  But that was sort of my...
• 25:09
  my breakthrough into getting a...
• 25:11
  It was a factory driver.
• 25:12
  It was pretty much one of the few in the Asia-Pacific and I was able to get it at, what, 22 years of age.
• 25:20
  So that was very cool.
• 25:21
  And I think that transition from being a really amateur, like in the Group N car, even though we won the Privateers Cup and we're sort of setting some decent times...
• 25:30
  to going into a professional team really, really made a big difference in terms of like the support, the understanding, the technical side of things as well.
• 25:39
  You get an opportunity with Monster Tajima.
• 25:42
  You're all dressed in yellow.
• 25:44
  What's the Super 1600 like to drive?
• 25:46
  Because you've gone from a production-based Mitsubishi Evo to a high-revving front-wheel drive.
• 25:54
  Was there learnings and all that or what was it like?
• 25:57
  Yeah, it was a massive, massive learning curve.
• 25:59
  Like such a different car, like so much more like rewarding if you pushed it hard, where a group end car, you had to really control yourself.
• 26:08
  But in that car, you could like push it beyond the limit and get away with things a lot more, where a group end car could quite easily break or basically you didn't get the best time out of it.
• 26:18
  So, that was a really good step for me going into a world rally car as well because there's a lot of guys that,
• 26:23
  especially around that time that were super quick in group end cars and that hop in a world rally car and wouldn't go much quicker than they were in their group end car, where hopping in that Super 1600 car enabled me to sort of push the boundaries and explore a lot more.
• 26:38
  But it was also a big challenge because the year after, which I'm sure you'll sort of get to, but when I was in the Subaru,
• 26:44
  and I was swapping between the Subaru and the Super 1600 car, it actually would take me a couple of stages to adapt back into the Group N car from driving the Super 1600 because that was so different to get the most out of.
• 26:58
  And I'd always overdrive the Group N car on the first few stages and I had to dial it back every time and then go, okay, yep, that's how to get the most out of this car.
• 27:07
  So it really taught me a lot and gave me a good understanding about different driving styles.
• 27:13
  and different sort of techniques.
• 27:15
  He's a hero too in rallying terms.
• 27:19
  What was Monster like and being a part of that whole operation?
• 27:22
  Yeah, he's an entertaining one.
• 27:24
  He's a character, that's for sure.
• 27:26
  No, just, yeah, a great experience to work with someone like that.
• 27:30
  He's just so into it and so passionate.
• 27:33
  Like to go to his workshop in Japan and like all the...
• 27:38
  all the hill climb cars just lined up like twin engine hill climb cars, just unreal.
• 27:44
  Some of the stuff he had there and yeah, he's all enthusiasm for it.
• 27:48
  Um, but he's a hard man as well.
• 27:50
  You know, you've got to perform, you've got to do the right job.
• 27:52
  And, um,
• 27:53
  Paul Wilding in a way was a big part of that as well, who was based here on the Gold Coast.
• 27:59
  He basically ran that team for Monster and he was a big part of pushing for me to get there and supportive of that.
• 28:07
  We had such a good time, those early days in the Asia-Pacific and just the adventure.
• 28:13
  To be honest, there wasn't a lot of competition in Super 1600 in Asia-Pacific.
• 28:16
  It was more about me exploring my own...
• 28:20
  boundaries a bit and um and as much as they were disappointed if i had an accident or something like they knew it was part of the learning curve because i was so so fresh to it and putting me against teammates to see to challenge me and push me was like a really good thing and i think that especially when rally japan came around each year that was a that was a big big thing how i mean you've sort of
• 28:43
  Over time, Chris, rallying in Asia has been a real staple for you.
• 28:49
  There's been a World Rally Championship, which we'll get to, and some great stuff in America as well.
• 28:54
  But a significant period of time, you've competed in all sorts of countries throughout Asia quite regularly, haven't you?
• 29:00
  Yeah, it's actually funny how it actually became...
• 29:04
  a big part of my career, even a big thing to...
• 29:08
  I spent a lot of time racing in China as well.
• 29:11
  But yeah, Asia Pacific, like we got to race in India, like I said, China, like in the Pacific, in New Caledonia, New Zealand, which are basically the best rally roads in the world.
• 29:23
  So it actually was a good learning experience because I got to drive on heaps of different...
• 29:27
  Even though they're all gravel, they were such...
• 29:30
  varied gravel in terms of the style of roads and things like that.
• 29:33
  Where you come to Australia and they're a bit different, the roads, but in a way still quite similar.
• 29:38
  So, for me to go to these countries and like the back roads in India and Malaysia and Thailand and these places, like it's just so different.
• 29:49
  It was a good learning experience for me because when you go to the world championship,
• 29:54
  so many rallies are very different to Australia.
• 29:56
  So it was a great sort of learning curve and a great experience.
• 30:00
  And then when I came back to do the Asia Pacific a few times, it was just a lot of fun.
• 30:05
  You know, it's a fun series.
• 30:06
  It's not as serious obviously as the WRC.
• 30:10
  and it's just sort of a good adventure.
• 30:13
  How did you get to ProDrive?
• 30:16
  And I would imagine meeting David Richards.
• 30:19
  Did you go to headquarters at Banbury there?
• 30:21
  And how did those conversations start about the possibility of going to the World Championship?
• 30:26
  So funnily enough, the first discussions we had were actually with Ford.
• 30:30
  So we were talking about going to M Sport, but that would have meant going
• 30:36
  um, straight into Monte Carlo rally in 05.
• 30:39
  Um, and we had an offer, um, from Ford, from M Sport.
• 30:45
  And, um, we also then had an offer from Subaru, but I guess it comes back to, um, where all evolved from was, um, rally Japan.
• 30:55
  So the first time I went to rally Japan, um,
• 30:59
  I was up against Daniel Carlson, who was a world junior WRC champion.
• 31:04
  And this is where a little bit of frustration came in from our end with the Suzuki deal, is that I wanted to go to Europe.
• 31:12
  Like, we knew that's where you had to go, and we were sort of stuck in the Asia-Pacific.
• 31:16
  And...
• 31:19
  I ended up beating Daniel Carlson on that rally.
• 31:23
  And I think we were even leading the group N cars, like in a gravel rally in a front-wheel drive car.
• 31:28
  I think it was quite competitive for a front-wheel drive car on gravel and sort of...
• 31:34
  The times we were setting were pretty ridiculous.
• 31:37
  And funnily enough, Dad and another guy, Bevan, who were traveling with me, ran to Paul Howarth at the airport and they were all lost.
• 31:45
  They were in Hokkaido and they were all completely lost, no idea what they were doing.
• 31:49
  And Paul Howarth's the team manager for the Subaru World Rally Team and they just started talking to each other at the airport, lost.
• 31:54
  All got along well.
• 31:56
  And then Paul was watching one of the stages with Dad and Bevan and...
• 32:01
  He goes, oh, there's Daniel.
• 32:03
  He's much more committed than Chris through there, blah, blah, blah.
• 32:07
  And then he had it the wrong way around.
• 32:09
  We'd swapped orders for the stage and it was actually me going through first.
• 32:13
  And then Daniel came through and he's like, oh, there you go.
• 32:16
  There's Chris.
• 32:17
  He's not quite as committed.
• 32:18
  And Bev's like, no, that's Daniel.
• 32:19
  Chris was the first one.
• 32:21
  And then they started to see the times come up and they're like, oh, shit.
• 32:25
  Okay, that's interesting.
• 32:27
  we ended up having dinner, um, after the rally, Paul Howarth and, um, with dad and Bevan and that sort of started that discussion with, with pro drive and the, the opportunity, the WRC, um,
• 32:41
  Was presenting.
• 32:42
  So, it was just crazy how like things like that sort of evolve into- They knew who I was but they weren't like I wasn't on their radar up until then and all of a sudden, they start keeping a closer eye on you and then things evolve.
• 32:56
  So, then we had the two- Basically, two offers and unfortunately, those times, it actually meant you had to bring money to get the drive but probably two years earlier and I would have walked in on a million euros and-
• 33:10
  When you think about it, like the budget at Subaru World Rally Team at the time was say 30 million euros and we had to bring, I think it was a million euros, but it was a deal where it basically unwound itself.
• 33:22
  So, as long as I continue with the team, then it would all get paid back, et cetera.
• 33:27
  And then basically through salary.
• 33:29
  So, it was quite easy where we did the investment structure that it was, that it would pay itself back as long as I was
• 33:38
  Any good in the world championship.
• 33:39
  Yeah.
• 33:40
  So it was basically down those two offers, but we had great support from Nick Senior and Subaru Australia.
• 33:46
  And we also felt loyal to them from the support they showed in that 04 season to run that privateer car where they helped fund that.
• 33:55
  That sort of led us to go the Subaru way and they put some money towards that program in the WRC.
• 34:01
  And yes, it's a paid seat, but basically anyone that went there had to bring money.
• 34:06
  It didn't really matter.
• 34:09
  And like I said, if it was a couple of years earlier where Petter got his first drive, then it was the opposite case in the same situation of driver, if you know what I mean.
• 34:17
  Mate, the thing that sort of stands out for me there is that there's been for you in your career.
• 34:24
  I mean, you've learnt the hustle, the business side.
• 34:28
  You know, you're the competitive athlete.
• 34:30
  You've spoken about that.
• 34:31
  But at the same time, there's been a few freakish chance things like that at airports or whatever, hasn't there?
• 34:39
  And I think it's life, bud.
• 34:40
  I think it's whether you're open to the opportunity, aren't you?
• 34:43
  It's like...
• 34:45
  If you're always open to grab an opportunity, they seem to present themselves as well.
• 34:49
  So, yeah, it's 100% timing and things like that.
• 34:54
  But you've also got to put yourself in the right place to have an opportunity to have those timing and chance meetings as well.
• 35:00
  So, it's crazy how things happen.
• 35:01
  But you speak to a lot of successful people in all sorts of business, whatever.
• 35:07
  And it's the same thing, you know.
• 35:09
  It's that chance meeting.
• 35:10
  encounter or that random meeting or whatever, that split decision, you know, that leads to something that's successful.
• 35:17
  But if you're not open-minded to that, then they never appear.
• 35:20
  So, it's one of those funny things.
• 35:22
  But a random guy emailed me on Facebook and I was like, this is weird.
• 35:28
  And I was like, I had a look at it and I did a little bit of research.
• 35:32
  And it was from this rally team in China.
• 35:35
  And he was just like the translator and they were looking, trying to get a driver.
• 35:38
  And I was like, oh, this seems a bit weird.
• 35:40
  And I did some research.
• 35:41
  I ended up getting a four-year career racing in China for them driving a world rally car.
• 35:45
  You know, it's just like some of the best times ever.
• 35:48
  And like ProDrive became involved and we had a world rally car and we're traveling all over China racing a world rally car, having an absolute blast.
• 35:55
  So, it's, yeah, all from a thing you could have just pressed the lead on.
• 36:00
  So, it's funny how things happen.
• 36:01
  Yeah.
• 36:12
  If this episode teaches us anything, it's that if you receive a random message on Facebook, they want you to race rally cars in China.
• 36:22
  Where was the first drive in a WRC car?
• 36:25
  What was that WRC car, given that you've talked about some discussions with M Sport, and I'm assuming Malcolm Wilson and those guys, and how did you find it?
• 36:33
  Was it mind blowing?
• 36:34
  What did you think?
• 36:36
  Yeah, so it was funnily enough on snow in, I guess we were in Sweden testing.
• 36:44
  So I'd never driven on snow, never driven a World Rally car,
• 36:48
  And that was basically straight into it.
• 36:52
  I would have shaken it down but never driven like on a stage in one.
• 36:56
  And I went to see Tommy Mackinac and Patsy Hagstrom.
• 37:01
  They were doing an ice driving school in Finland.
• 37:03
  So, I'd never – because I had never driven it.
• 37:05
  So, I had no idea.
• 37:07
  And I went up and did a couple of days ice driving with them just to get my head around that.
• 37:11
  But that was just in a group in car.
• 37:13
  And obviously, great – like imagine we were what, 24 and you're –
• 37:18
  got Tommy Mackinan there and he was sort of showing me how to drive on ice.
• 37:21
  So yeah, very, very cool experience.
• 37:25
  And then we went, must've gone straight across to Sweden to test the World Rally car and Petter was testing.
• 37:32
  And I hopped in the car and went for a ride with Petter first.
• 37:35
  And I still remember the road.
• 37:36
  The road is amazing.
• 37:37
  amazing we've used as a test road before like it's there's six gear airborne sideways where you got both ends of the car touching the snow banks wow insanely fast and just fun because that's that's basically the fastest rally of the year the the swedish rally average speed wise um then the next day it was my go
• 37:56
  And I just went for it.
• 37:57
  You know, I just didn't care.
• 37:59
  And basically, on my third run, I was pretty much matching Peta.
• 38:04
  So, the engineers were pretty impressed and pretty happy.
• 38:09
  And, yeah, like that.
• 38:10
  Like, they're so cool world rally cars.
• 38:12
  Like, people have no idea.
• 38:14
  They are ridiculously quick on a...
• 38:17
  on a stage, like on a rally road, like the speeds you can carry and the things you can do is unbelievable.
• 38:23
  Like I know Petter had taken Michael Schumacher in the car up there.
• 38:29
  It might've been that test.
• 38:30
  And he basically said it was like the,
• 38:32
  one of the greatest experiences in a car in his life.
• 38:34
  That's going for a ride in a rally car.
• 38:37
  And you've done it, I'm sure.
• 38:38
  But it's very dependent on the road.
• 38:40
  For me, if you're on a road in Finland or Sweden or something like that or even New Zealand, a proper road in a world rally car, I don't think there is almost an experience in a car in the world that would match it.
• 38:52
  It's an interesting thing for me because you talked about how young you were and, you know, that you were not afraid to throw caution to the wind at that stage and so on.
• 39:03
  But rally drivers compared to, say, Formula One drivers and others over the years have typically bloomed later, haven't they?
• 39:12
  It takes time, mate, doesn't it, to have that –
• 39:18
  fearless approach that you clearly need, but to be able to dance it right on the very edge safely.
• 39:24
  That's not an easy thing, I would imagine.
• 39:26
  No, it's... You look at Formula One these days, like they're 20, 21 years old and they're competitive.
• 39:33
  So it's not that...
• 39:36
  And even in rally, it starts to be that way, but you've got to start so young to build up that experience.
• 39:42
  I look at it more like, yeah, I was 24, which isn't super young, but I'd only been rallying for four years.
• 39:47
  So my experience level was still quite low and it's just managing the risk, but you've got to be, you're not going to be competitive unless you're right on the edge in every corner and you're still trying to manage the risks.
• 39:59
  So it's, it's,
• 40:00
  It's such a challenge and the consequences are so instantaneous.
• 40:05
  Like it's done.
• 40:05
  It's just like, bang, one small mistake, one thing offline, one wrong pace note done out of a three day race.
• 40:13
  I think like in come 07, 08, when we'd come to grips that maybe we weren't going to be able to win in the car we had,
• 40:23
  Then, and my experience was quite high at that stage.
• 40:27
  You'd say I knew the rallies, I knew the roads, I knew where to push, where not push.
• 40:30
  Then you manage the game a lot better and you could sort of go, okay, I'm aiming for third and you could pretty much, you know, run third or fourth pretty consistently and know the risk level to take.
• 40:40
  But, you know, you follow these guys through the stages, like you follow Loeb and Gronholm at the time and they are putting...
• 40:50
  the wheels in the ditches on every freaking corner.
• 40:54
  You know, when they are going, they are not taking risks.
• 40:58
  They are absolutely on it.
• 40:59
  I remember I was pretty safe in third one year in Finland, so I was sort of just conserving my spots.
• 41:05
  I was third on the road behind Sebastian and Marcus.
• 41:08
  And I'm watching the Lions and it was ridiculous.
• 41:11
  Like every stage, they are just in ditches, bouncing off bushes and banks and just absolutely on the limit and like battling each other for the win.
• 41:21
  And getting away with it.
• 41:22
  Like that's how good these guys were.
• 41:23
  They were able to do that and not make a mistake, you know.
• 41:28
  But I think in a rally car, you really have to back yourself.
• 41:32
  You know, you have to have utter belief because you can't go that fast without taking massive risks.
• 41:38
  And then you have to rely on your underlying skill to get away with it.
• 41:43
  So, I'd always take an approach early on in the rally.
• 41:46
  If I hadn't had a moment like in the first kilometer, I wasn't going fast enough.
• 41:50
  basically.
• 41:50
  And you knew that if you hadn't had a moment in the first kilometer, you were off the pace and you knew it.
• 41:56
  So, that was always sort of a bit of a benchmark to know if you were going well straight away.
• 42:02
  Terrific names that you've rattled off along the way here from, you know, hanging out with-
• 42:08
  the goat in Sebastian Loeb, having a teammate like Peter Solberg, getting some advice from a legend in Tommy McInnen.
• 42:16
  I mean, great period, Chris, to be around.
• 42:19
  It must have been a little bit surreal in that sense.
• 42:20
  I know you're an athlete and you're chasing it, but to be in that space with these people, very, very special.
• 42:27
  They're absolute legends, all those guys.
• 42:30
  to be sort of mates with them was very cool.
• 42:32
  And they're all just good guys, like just awesome, awesome dudes.
• 42:37
  So, and rallies like that, you know, everyone, pretty much everyone gets along.
• 42:42
  There's the odd one that is a bit of hard work, but then the majority of them are great guys because you're not pushing each other off the track.
• 42:49
  You're just battling each other one stage at a time and there's no hard feelings.
• 42:53
  If you get beaten, you get beaten.
• 42:54
  It wasn't anyone else's fault, but your own.
• 42:57
  So...
• 42:58
  I think that's why everyone can get along so well.
• 43:01
  They were all fairly open to...
• 43:04
  They were all supportive as well at the same time.
• 43:06
  Marcus would come up and say things like, when I do a good time and things like that.
• 43:11
  Even though they were in different teams, they were quite supportive.
• 43:15
  You see Lewis Hamilton at the moment starting to make comments to other drivers and things like that.
• 43:21
  He's so comfortable in where he's at himself that he's happy to give compliments.
• 43:26
  Rallying has always had that.
• 43:28
  That's how we are.
• 43:30
  You're supportive as much as you are competitive against each other.
• 43:34
  So, you know, the learning curves at this stage, I mean, you've talked about how committed you need to be and so on.
• 43:41
  Were there lows for you here, Chris, whether it be crashes or uncompetitive moments and how certain was it all when you first ventured into the WRC?
• 43:52
  I think when I left Mexico in 05, I remember sitting on a plane flying back to, I think I was flying to Australia,
• 44:01
  I felt like I'd done some stage times that was super competitive.
• 44:06
  And I felt like finally I was meant to be there.
• 44:10
  You know, I deserve to be there on pure merit.
• 44:16
  So that was a nice feeling.
• 44:21
  I said in a debrief...
• 44:24
  It must have been after that Sweden test because we were still in the 04 car and I hadn't driven the 05 car.
• 44:32
  And Petter said, unless we change something, we're not going to win another rally this year.
• 44:39
  And...
• 44:40
  And I had no idea at the time.
• 44:42
  And I remember that so clearly.
• 44:44
  Like, he was so adamant that the new car was not going to work and that he didn't want to go out of the 04 car.
• 44:53
  And, unfortunately, he was right.
• 44:56
  Didn't win for a long time after that.
• 45:00
  So...
• 45:03
  It was definitely a challenging time.
• 45:04
  Like I was so new in 05 that it didn't matter.
• 45:08
  And I guess getting a podium in a world championship like in Japan.
• 45:12
  So, it sort of secured my place in the team and I had some good results.
• 45:16
  And not too many mistakes.
• 45:18
  But then when I started to push a bit further and...
• 45:22
  say 06 and the car definitely wasn't quite what it needed to be.
• 45:27
  That's where probably more mistakes crept in than should have been because I was just – I didn't accept that that was the case, you know, and I was trying to learn and push but the car –
• 45:38
  probably wasn't capable of it, which Petter was showing as well.
• 45:41
  So, that was definitely a challenge because it was sort of when I should have been really starting to ramp things up and they weren't going the right way.
• 45:49
  So, yeah, there was some tough times there, which you find hard to see yourself getting that down when you're in a world championship team and like you're that age and everything's looking great, but you want to keep moving forward.
• 46:02
  You don't want to be moving backwards.
• 46:04
  So, that was definitely challenging.
• 46:08
  we started to realize the limitations.
• 46:12
  So there was definitely different engineering groups at ProDrive that you've got, we had FX as Petter's car engineer, yet he couldn't,
• 46:22
  say really what he wanted to say to the design engineers.
• 46:26
  And then FX goes and designs the Volkswagen and goes and wins multiple world championships, you know?
• 46:31
  So they had people there that had the skills and it just became, like I still got friends at ProDrive and stuff like that.
• 46:40
  And I'm,
• 46:41
  I just say, so I don't want to be too disrespectful, but it just...
• 46:46
  The culture maybe wasn't right for getting the most out of the vehicle.
• 46:56
  You had the guys there that could do it 100%, but there was just blockages in the system that...
• 47:03
  didn't really allow the car to be all it could be.
• 47:07
  And there was some design philosophies which were outdated to be honest.
• 47:11
  Then once I drove some other world rally cars, you sort of realized that the damper travel compared to the other cars was like, we had group N cars nearly with as much travel.
• 47:24
  And then I remember we were, Mads Osberg was in a customer car with Ryga dampers and we had our car,
• 47:32
  in Sweden, I'm going to say early 07.
• 47:36
  And we were going on about travel and droop and everything like this.
• 47:39
  So we needed the inside wheel to come out more things.
• 47:42
  And we had this problem with the car just turning your absolute bucket and just becoming basically impossible to handle and just throwing you off the road.
• 47:51
  And you just, I'm sure there's videos out there of PETA
• 47:54
  almost snaking down the road in Finland at like 80k an hour like barely trying to keep the car on the road like things like that it was just some things were fundamentally wrong um and they'd say I know you can't have more travel we can't design that and then you look across at the customer um car of Mads Osberg had it like it was there in front of you you can and I'll be like with DR going look why has he got it and he's a customer and we don't and you'd overlay their data and they'd have so much more lateral grip on the data like ridiculous and we do the same time
• 48:24
  If we had his grip, we'd be like you'd be up with the front runners.
• 48:29
  And they designed things like there were people trying to understand it, you know, why didn't we have the grip?
• 48:35
  Why wasn't it working?
• 48:36
  And there was this design guru at the back, like just a crazy mad scientist and he made this huge wheel.
• 48:45
  So, there was guys like really working hard to try and solve it but it
• 48:49
  there were just some underlying issues and they did get to the bottom of it in the end, but he had this wheel and it had like a huge metal drum in the, in this two story building and it had bumps on it, like metal bumps to try and replicate rocks.
• 49:03
  And he was running different damper like corners over, like have a group N set up and then a world rally car set up and try and understand it.
• 49:13
  And the group N car, he could calculate more grip than our world rally car.
• 49:17
  No way.
• 49:18
  Yeah.
• 49:20
  So, we were- it was especially apparent when the grip changes.
• 49:24
  So, you could get it dialed in on one grip surface, but then the grip would change and then you just disappear.
• 49:30
  Like, the pace would just go.
• 49:32
  And we tried.
• 49:33
  I tested for 10 days in a row in Sardinia and we'd lock, like, physically have three lock diffs so the car should not basically turn.
• 49:43
  And I could go and flick it down the road and it would spin, like, 360 down the road.
• 49:46
  Oh!
• 49:47
  It was just ridiculous.
• 49:48
  So there was a lot of effort going to try and make it work, but incredibly frustrating times.
• 49:56
  And maybe what led to the demise of the relationship with Subaru in the end, as much as the GFC did as well.
• 50:08
  That's the end of part one of my podcast with Aussie rally driver Chris Atkinson.
• 50:12
  A quick thanks to all of you who listen and have liked, subscribed or left a review.
• 50:18
  We really appreciate it.
• 50:19
  Hopefully friends and family are enjoying Rusty's Garage too.
• 50:23
  Now the second part of my chat with Chris is in the library and ready for a stage start right now.
• 50:29
  We talk about his fave WRC car.
• 50:31
  We'll be right back.
• 50:32
  Why it wasn't just the GFC that hurt the competitiveness of one car he had high hopes for.
• 50:39
  A fun, wrecky car yarn.
• 50:41
  Man, they get a punishment, those things.
• 50:43
  And an insight into Rallycross and hanging out with Hoonigan Ken Block.