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Is Anything Too Hard for God? | Genesis 17 Circumcision, Isaac & Ishmael | Beers With Jesus · Todd's World

• Yo, it's Carrie: He's kinda like, okay, God, you know, right. Whatever, like if that's e if that's even that's even possible. Yeah, right. It it's kinda like him saying, Todd: I and he's trying to bring it back to his understanding on a practical level, maybe. Because that's what he thinks. And see for Yo, it's Carrie: okay, 'cause he's been saying that for how long? For decades. Todd: For for my whole life I never understood that Abraham spent yeah, almost a decade and a half thinking Abraham, Sarai, Hagar, all of thought this is the one God's gonna use, Ishmael. Abraham prayed it that way. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. But decades but decades before that he was told and it still hasn't happened. So yeah, for sure. It's been decades and so he's probably like, Todd: Right. Yo, it's Carrie: Okay, I hear ya. Again, listen, d watch over watch over Ishmael, 'cause he's like our he's our only hope. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: Yeah. So he's he's trying to bring it back and then God's real like list that's not what I mean. And it's gonna be through Isaac. Yo, it's Carrie: Ha ha. Todd: But then he he adds on for Ishmael because he knows I mean, Ishmael's Abram's son. He's been like he's been raised by he's like Abram's son. Abram's Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: his dad. He's he's the heir. He's been raised, he's thirteen years old, and everybody everybody around Abram, everybody all the servants who work for him, everybody Every and it says that there was a enough of them that him and Locke couldn't be in the same place because they all had so many people and so much going on, right? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: All of them thought the same thing. This is the air. Everybody thought that. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: And they were all wrong. That's why I think that's kind of funny. Welcome everyone to Beers With Jesus, Todd's World. Gary's with me, I'm Todd. Welcome to our weekly hangout where we go through the stories of the Bible and we enjoy it. And then Yo, it's Carrie: We do. Todd: every other week we do the Wildly Opinionated News Hour, which we did this week. It dropped yesterday. So check that show out if you haven't. they're very different shows, but we enjoy them both. So Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Kind of an extended it's an extended show this week. It was. Yeah. Todd: Yeah. It was fun. It wa it was a it was a good show this week. and I think this'll be good. Carrie doesn't have as much faith as I do in Genesis seventeen where we are currently. She's worried. Yo, it's Carrie: I'm a little I'm a little wary. I'm a little wary of this one. I've I've thought a lot about it. It's it's Todd: Eva Yo, it's Carrie: sure. Todd: Carrie's been thinking a lot about circumcision. That's what we're gonna talk about today, guys. I'm I I just got back last night. I was at my daughter, my daughter's Lauren Allen, Lauren Allen Music on Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Instagram and she's fabulous, singer songwriter. most of country. Yeah, you can find her on Spotify or YouTube, I think. Anyway, Yo, it's Carrie: Spotify, you can find her on Spotify too. It's great. Yep. Todd: she had a gig on the other side of the state. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. That's so cool. Todd: And lives like two hours away. And that was fun. Will, my good buddy Will got it for her. And then as soon Yo, it's Carrie: Super cool. Todd: as she was two songs in, the owner of the place where she was at was texting Will and was like, you did good on this one. We need to get her every month. So that was cool. Yo, it's Carrie: nice. Good job, Lauren. She's so good. Todd: Everybody appreciated her and they're gonna I think she'll start getting more stuff over there, which that's what I've been wanting her to do. In fact I've I've tried Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: to get this vision of like Bob Seeger built this regional presence and then Yo, it's Carrie: yeah. Todd: and then had something to kinda once once everything took off nationally on the big scale, he had a really big regional audience. I know it's different in this day and age 'cause it's not but he was touring real heavy within like the Great Lakes regions, like Wisconsin, Yo, it's Carrie: Lincoln. that's cool. Todd: Minnesota, you know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Nice. Todd: Illinois kind of that thing. So anyway. It was fun. Yo, it's Carrie: Good for her. She's so good. Todd: I'm a little tired, but it was fun. but it was a fabulous. What'd you do this weekend? Anything fun? Yo, it's Carrie: that's cool. I yeah, I went to I went to a dinner the it's a very old school, old, old timey kind of place here, not far from where I Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, it's Carrie: live. And it's a dinner theater place. I went with some friends and saw a live musical production of Saturday Night Fever, Todd: Okay. Yo, it's Carrie: which was really fun. Remember this John John Travolta movie from the seventies? Todd: Yeah. But I don't remember it very well. I don't I didn't watch, you know Yo, it's Carrie: Right. It's Bee Gees. It's actually a really sad s sad story and I wondered as it progressed, I wondered if it was going to if they were gonna stick with the storyline or if they were gonna cheer it up at at the end. Couple hours. Yep, full show. And limited menu. Yeah, limited menu, Todd: How long does a dinner theater last? Like you go and how long are you so it's like a full show thing. But you get food there. Yo, it's Carrie: but the service is excellent and it was so fun. But a former Todd: And you get drink and they keep the drinks coming. Thank God. Yo, it's Carrie: Yep. And of yes, a former student of mine was in the show. And Todd: okay. Yo, it's Carrie: so I got to see yeah, got to see him perform and then we had a drink afterwards. It was really fun. So super cool. Good time. Yeah. Yep. That's the goal. Yes. Mm-hmm. Todd: good job, Carrie. Out there being social. That's cool. So this week we're in Genesis 17. We are going through all we do is we just go through the stories. We Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: use the message translation. I exclusively use the message translation because I love it. I just like the narrative style. It works for Yo, it's Carrie: Yep. Yeah, it's good. Todd: me. Yo, it's Carrie: You'll like it. Todd: And I enjoy what we're doing because we're focusing on the stories and we kind of explore the stories. And like today, some other things will come in, you know, we might bring some epis stuff from Paul and the epistles in or whatever. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: But it's all mostly within the framework of the story. And th that's what I enjoy. So that's Yo, it's Carrie: Gotcha. Mm-hmm. Todd: why I do that. And it also happens to be what I feel like is I don't know. A lot of pastors maybe, priests, whatever. I feel like they spend the vast majority of their time in the epistles. There may be perfectly good reasons for that. But Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: I just like something a little different. It's the point. You know what I mean? I'm not a pastor or a priest, and this isn't a Yo, it's Carrie: I mean yeah. Todd: church. So it works. Yo, it's Carrie: No, it's cool. It's I I like this. I this Genesis, I wasn't sure about it, but I've really enjoyed it. Todd: We're just learning the Bible, learning to get to know trying to get to know God better. That's all. Together. So Yo, it's Carrie: Yes. Yep. That's it. Todd: thank you guys for joining us. follow us if you haven't. Toddsworld.net is where you'll find all my books, the stories, the merch, the whole thing. Some great books. Go on there, check them out. you'll enjoy it. There's audiobooks on there of insurrection. Circle Yo, it's Carrie: Good stuff. Check it out. Todd: of wolves. We were coming Yo, it's Carrie: Is that the second one? Yeah. Todd: Speaking of, yeah, that's the second one. Speaking of, we were on we were going to Lawrence Gig yesterday, Yo, it's Carrie: Uh-huh. Todd: and we're heading down M57 in Michigan. We're and we're heading east. No, we're heading west. And we're like passing every so often all these like church buses loaded with people. And it Yo, it's Carrie: my gosh. Todd: was that Harvest Fest that we'll used to work at. And I thought about Yo, it's Carrie: That inspired man. Todd: Insurrection two, yeah. Circle of wolves. Fabulous ending to insurrection Yo, it's Carrie: Woo. Todd: two. Leaves you hanging. Yo, it's Carrie: It's intense. It does. Check it out. Todd: If only the author would write three. Ha ha ha ha. He will. He will. Or season two of witnesses, true. All right. Carrie's gonna read Yo, it's Carrie: Or season two of Witness. Yes. Okay. Todd: today. We're in Genesis 17 and Yo, it's Carrie: Seventeen. Todd: And we're gonna read 17 and we're gonna catch the first half of 18. So Carrie's got a lot of reading to do, so Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: settle in. Yeah, Yo, it's Carrie: And you can read the first half of eighteen if you like. Todd: I can. If you want to do that, I'll do gladly do that. Okay. However you want to do it, Carrie. You hand the baton off whenever you need to. I'm a professional here. I can do it. Yo, it's Carrie: So people don't get sick of my voice. Alright. Are we ready? Okay. I'm gonna read I'm reading 17 so that Todd doesn't wince at the painful aspects Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, it's Carrie: while he's reading. Okay. Todd: Okay. Yo, it's Carrie: When Abram was ninety nine years old, God showed up and said to him, I am the strong God. Live entirely before me, live to the hilt. I'll make a covenant between us, and I'll give you a huge family. Overwhelmed, Abram fell flat on his face. Then God said to him, This is my covenant with you. You'll be the father of many nations. Your name will no longer be Abram, but Abraham, meaning that I'm making you the father of many nations. I'll make you a father of fathers, I'll make nations from you, kings will issue from you. I'm establishing my covenant between me and you, a covenant that includes your descendants, a covenant that goes on and on and on, a covenant that commits me to be your God and the God of your descendants, and I'm giving you and your descendants this land where you're now just camping, this whole country of Canaan to own forever, and I'll be their God. God continued to Abraham and sorry, my page is stuck together. Okay, sorry, hold on. That was a terrible break. God continued to Abraham sorry. Well, it was like one word on the next page, my pages stuck together. God continued Todd: You're doing fabulous, Gary. Sorry, I had you on mute. You're I'm so confident in you. I wasn't even trying to talk. I was just coughing. Getting myself ready. Yo, it's Carrie: to Abraham and you. You will honor my covenant, you and your descendants, generation after generation. This is the covenant that you are to honor. The covenant that pulls in all your descendants. Circumcise every male. Circumcise by cutting off the foreskin of the penis. It will be the sign of the covenant between us. Every male baby will be circumcised when he is eight days old, generation after generation. This includes houseborn slaves and slaves bought from outsiders who are not blood kin. Make sure you circumcise both your own children and anyone brought in from the outside. That way my covenant will be cut into your body, a permanent mark of my permanent covenant. An uncircumcised male, one who has not had the foreskin of his penis cut off, will be cut off from his people. He has broken my covenant. Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, it's Carrie: God continued speaking to Abraham. And Sarai, your wife, don't call her Sarai any longer. Call her Sarah. I'll bless her. Yes, I'll Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, it's Carrie: give you a son by her. how I'll bless her. Nations will come from her. Kings of nations will come from her. Abraham fell flat on his face, and then he laughed, thinking, Can a hundred year old man father a son? And can Sarah at ninety nine years have a baby? Recovering, Abraham said to God, O keep Ishmael alive and well befor alive and well before you. But God said, That's not what I mean. Your wife Sarah will have a baby, a son. Name him Isaac. Laugh laughter? does Isaac mean laughter? that's Todd: Yes, Isaac means laughter. Yo, it's Carrie: awesome. I'll establish my covenant with him and his descendants, a covenant that will last for ever. And Ishmael? Yes, I heard your prayer for him. I'll also bless him. I'll make sure he has plenty of children, a huge family. He'll father twelve princes I'll make him a great nation. But I'll establish my covenant with Isaac, whom Sarah will give you about this time next year. God finished speaking with Abraham and left. Then Abraham took his son Ishmael and all his servants, whether houseborn or purchased, every male in his household, and circumcised them, cutting off their foreskins that very day, just as God had told him. Abraham was ninety nine years old when he was circumcised, his son Ishmael was thirteen years old when he was circumcised. Abraham and Ishmael were circumcised the same day together, with all the servants of his household, those born there and those. and those purchased from outsiders all were circumcised with him. Todd: Yeah. That sounds like a party. Yeah, let me I'll read the first part of eighteen. Yo, it's Carrie: Alright, you wanna read the begin? Be like, come in here. All right. Do you wanna read the first part of eighteen? Okay. Todd: God appeared to Abraham at the Oaks of Mamr while he was sitting at the entrance of his tent. It was the hottest part of the day. He looked up and saw three men standing. He ran from his tent to greet them and bowed before them. He said, Master, if it please you stop for a while with your servant. I'll get some water so you can wash your feet, rest under this tree. I'll get some food to refresh you on your way, since your travels have brought you across my path. They said Certainly, go ahead. Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah. He said, Hurry, get three cups of our best flour, knead it and make bread. Then Abraham ran to the cattle pen and picked out a nice plump calf and gave it to the servant who lost no time getting it ready. Then he got curds and milk milk sorry. I tend to pronounce milk with an E. It's a little Midwestern. Sorry guys. Yo, it's Carrie: yeah, you're so Michigan. Todd: Anyway, he then he got curds and milk, brought them with the calf that had been roasted. Set the meal before the men and stood there under the tree while they ate. The men said to him, Where is Sarah your wife? He said in the tent. One of them said, I'm coming back about this time next year. When I arrive, your wife Sarah will have a son. Sarah was listening at the tent opening, just behind the man. Abraham and Sarah were old by this time, very old. Old as hell. Sarah was far Yo, it's Carrie: Hold us out. Todd: past the age for having babies. Sarah laughed within herself. An old woman like me get pregnant with this old man of a husband? Abra Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: God said to Abraham, Why did Sarah laugh, saying me have a baby? An old woman like me? Is anything too hard for God? I'll be back about this time next year and Sarah will have a baby. Sarah lied. She said I didn't laugh because she was afraid. But he said Yes you did. You laughed. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: That's it. That's what we're doing today. Yo, it's Carrie: All right. Todd: It makes sense why we're doing it that part eighteen. It kinda fits right in, right? I mean it's basically Yo, it's Carrie: Yes. Yes. Thank you. Todd: the same idea, so. Yeah, Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: so what'd you think, Carrie? I know you were terribly excited about circumcision. Yo, it's Carrie: Well, it's just obviously I mean it's common practice and it's like it's Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, it's Carrie: a very normal part of it's just very n Todd: Wasn't then though. Yo, it's Carrie: no, it wasn't then and so but I mean like it's normal to us, but hearing how it was introduced, how it was instituted, I am just I don't fully understand it. I mean, I I can un I can speculate about some symbolism and all that, but I'm just I'm just curious like This is an interesting ask. Yes. Todd: Like why would God choose this? Yo, it's Carrie: Again, symbolically, you know, I mean is that what we're gonna talk about a little bit? Todd: And it and it it was a big enough deal for the Jews that in the early church Yo, it's Carrie: Uh-huh. Todd: you had a group, a large group of of Jewish Christians that wanted Gentile Christians that that became Gentiles that became Christians, they felt that they needed to become circumcised and Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: follow Moses' law. And that a lot of what you see in Paul's epistles is Paul combating that idea and talking about it's not about circumcision of the flesh. It's about the circumcision of the heart. So Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: so so he takes he takes it and he frees essentially the Gentile church. And it wasn't just Paul. If you remember in Acts, remember when they had that council? Remember Peter goes Yo, it's Carrie: Yes. Todd: and Paul goes and Barnabas and and James says, Okay, the only thing we're gonna ask is what was it? Like don't drink don't eat strangled animals or the meat with the blood still in it. There was a couple just Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Mm-hmm. Todd: a couple weird things or or or no, then don't idols and then there was something else. I don't remember what it was, but but circumcision wasn't part of it. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. It was something it was something relationally. It was something the other thing Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: had something. Mm-hmm. Todd: So the but it is wi I mean it's I don't know. Like I I I didn't I mean I have some thoughts on it. First of all, I thought it was cool when it was like when Abraham was ninety nine years old, God showed up. I just like that's part that's why I love the message. I just like I read God showed up and I think you know it's been it it's been fourteen years since the kerfuffle with Hagar in sixteen. Cause we find out that Ishmael is thirteen years old. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Ishmael is mm hmm. Todd: So you figure there's about fourteen years there. You know, she was pregnant for nine months, whatever. So thirteen Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: or fourteen years. You know what's wild to me about this? Yo, it's Carrie: Hmm. Todd: And and I was talking to Will about this today. I Yo, it's Carrie: Uh-huh. Todd: was trying to bounce some of this passage off of our good buddy Will and my wife Nikki. Yo, it's Carrie: Since he won't join us, it's good to get Todd: Neither one of whom were very excited about it being bounced off them. So I didn't get much. But I said Yo, it's Carrie: Okay Okay. Todd: I said, you know, in in all the time that I spent in church, you know, I grew up in church, grew up Christian school, Christian college for at least one year was all that we could tolerate each other. But but in all that time, none this was never presented to me like For fourteen, thirteen or fourteen years. Sarah or Sarah and Abram. They think Ishmael's the son of promise. Hagar does. They all do. Everybody Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: thinks we helped God along and it worked out and it was kind of a bitch for a while, but we we kind of got it. And this is because you can see it here because when God starts talking to him, he he's he's kind of reiterating or maybe Maybe putting a little meat Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: on the skeleton of the of the promise he's given him. You know, it's kind of built as he's gone. Yo, it's Carrie: Y you're right, but this is you're right that this is after a time jump. Yeah, you're right. Okay. Mm-hmm. Todd: Yeah. But but when God says to him, God says, don't call her call her Sarah, I'm gonna bless her. And then, you know, nations will come from her, kings and they of nations are gonna come from her. Abraham, first of all, laughs before Sarah does. Abraham fell flat on his face and then he laughed, thinking, Yo, it's Carrie: Ha ha ha. Todd: Can a hundred year old man father a son? And can Sarah at ninety years have a baby? Recovering, Abraham said to God, keep Ishmael alive and well before you. That's because Abraham thinks this is this is his seed. This is what God's gonna do something through as Ishmael. And Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: that and that he doesn't I I don't even think when I think when he's laughing, I don't even think I think he's just laughing at the improbability of it. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: And thinking I you know I know this came across this way, but God must not have meant this exactly. And so he says, yes, keep Ishmael, you know, because he thinks and you and even if it was through Hagar, Hagar was Sarah's maid. We talked about that last time. So it's still maybe God's kind of saying it through Sarah that way, you know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: As would be the custom of the time, but God's like, that's not what I mean. So Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: What when God says to him, That's not what I mean, your wife Sarah will have a baby, name him Isaac, I'll establish my covenant with him and his descendants, a covenant Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: that lasts forever. So and he says, And Ishmael, yes, I heard your prayer for him. I'll also bless him. I'll make sure he has plenty of children, a huge family. He'll father twelve princes, I'll make him a great nation, but I'll establish my covenant with With Isaac, whom Sarah will give you about this, with the one that comes from the impossible circumstances. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: The child of faith. And to and and Paul makes a big deal about this in his epistles too, when he talks about the child of of the flesh versus the child of the faith. The child of the flesh was through Hagar and the child of faith. The covenant passed through faith. So when God says to him when he's talking about your descendants, covenant that goes on and on and on, a covenant that commits me to be your God and the God of your descendants. And I'm giving you and your descendants this land where you're now just camping, this whole country of Canaan to own forever, and I'll be their God. Now that sounds kind of like, and the Jews thought in fact that it was talking Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: about. All Jews. Anybody who's a Jew, the whole kingdom of Israel, right? They Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: were the children of Abraham. But but Paul, we see this in Hebrews, we see this in Romans where Paul talks about this. Jesus even says, and so does John the Baptist, God could raise the children of Abraham up out of those stones. Like don't think you're special because you're descended from Abraham. Doesn't have anything to do with the natural. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: And Paul comes at that in Romans and says it's not about circumcision of the flesh, it's about circumcision of the heart. You know what I mean? And so Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: he I I what I think is that this promise is to the the children of faith, it's to us. It's to the bride of Christ, it's to everyone who would come to faith in Christ, all who would all who are saved essentially, right? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Whether you're in the Old Testament looking forward to the Messiah or Or you're us and you're looking back, and obviously with a little clearer view, or maybe a lot clearer view. But those are the descendants to whom the land and to whom the promise is and the covenant is forever. It's to us. It's not to natural Israel over there with the Star of David on their flag. Does that make sense? There's a lot of people that that's not without controversy out there. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Well right. No, I I think yeah, we've yeah, true. No, it's I mean at that at that time that I mean that's where it began, but I believe that. Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: That yeah, that all of us the promises are for all of us. So okay. The Todd: Okay. Yo, it's Carrie: the the la real quick, the laughter. So you're saying Todd: Mm-hmm. Yo, it's Carrie: In this moment he's laughing. He doesn't even realize that God's talking about him having it more. and Todd: Well I think he does, but I don't think he knows how to take it. And I think that's why he Yo, it's Carrie: Right. I mean Todd: laughs. I don't think I think he thinks that God sounds like that and he thinks that's a ridiculous idea and he laughs at it because he thinks God must be maybe joking. I don't know. You know what I mean? Like Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Right. Yeah, okay, so I'm sorry, I'm thinking, why does he bring up Ishmael in that moment? But okay, I see what he's saying. He's kinda like, okay, God, you know, right. Whatever, like if that's e if that's even that's even possible. Yeah, right. It it's kinda like him saying, Todd: I and he's trying to bring it back to his understanding on a practical level, maybe. Because that's what he thinks. And see for Yo, it's Carrie: okay, 'cause he's been saying that for how long? For decades. Todd: For for my whole life I never understood that Abraham spent yeah, almost a decade and a half thinking Abraham, Sarai, Hagar, all of thought this is the one God's gonna use, Ishmael. Abraham prayed it that way. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. But decades but decades before that he was told and it still hasn't happened. So yeah, for sure. It's been decades and so he's probably like, Todd: Right. Yo, it's Carrie: Okay, I hear ya. Again, listen, d watch over watch over Ishmael, 'cause he's like our he's our only hope. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: Yeah. So he's he's trying to bring it back and then God's real like list that's not what I mean. And it's gonna be through Isaac. Yo, it's Carrie: Ha ha. Todd: But then he he adds on for Ishmael because he knows I mean, Ishmael's Abram's son. He's been like he's been raised by he's like Abram's son. Abram's Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: his dad. He's he's the heir. He's been raised, he's thirteen years old, and everybody everybody around Abram, everybody all the servants who work for him, everybody Every and it says that there was a enough of them that him and Locke couldn't be in the same place because they all had so many people and so much going on, right? Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: All of them thought the same thing. This is the air. Everybody thought that. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: And they were all wrong. That's why I think that's kind of funny. But that was never brought up to me my whole life, and I thought, why not? Did people not realize that? Yo, it's Carrie: It's funny 'cause you know, Ishmael right. Well an Ishmael must have been Ishmael must have been raised a cer i in a certain way also. Like with to believe that about himself and Todd: Yeah, he would have been raised to to to to become the leader to become the father of many nations that he that that Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: yeah, the heir the heir to the promise that Abraham Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: thought he was going to be. Yo, it's Carrie: Which it sounds like he still will. Sounds like he still will, but Todd: Well, he'll still partake in it, but he's not gonna be it's not gonna be the covenant, you know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. I mean he's not gonna be the he's not gonna be the tap the tap billing. He's not gonna be the headliner. Right. Todd: Right. Yo, it's Carrie: He's just like the opening act. Todd: I'm looking in I don't know how much of this to read. I don't Yo, it's Carrie: Hm, where are you? Todd: I I don't think I'm gonna get into it all that much in Romans. Anyway, I think Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: that I think that that's what it is. You know what I thought though, as Yo, it's Carrie: Hmm. Todd: I was reading this, is about the circumcision. Some thoughts I have. I'm Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: When this this circumcision Yo, it's Carrie: Mm mm. Todd: is a is a is a cutting in kind of the most intimate place, right? Yo, it's Carrie: Yep. Todd: When they when when when when Jews were stripped naked, you'd be able to know that they were Jews. Right? Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Mm-hmm. Todd: Because of circumcision. In that day and age when it wasn't widespread, I'm not saying you know what mean. And I and I I started thinking about it and I thought about how Paul said that it's not about circumcision of the flesh now, it's about circumcision of the heart. And I thought Yo, it's Carrie: Yes, but Todd: How would we see the circumcision of the heart in a Christian? And then I thought, would it be when they're stripped bare? And are we stripped bare by suffering? Is that when we'd really Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: see the mark of the Christian? You know what I mean? I I don't know. Just an Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah, Todd: idea. Yo, it's Carrie: sure. Todd: that that there was Yo, it's Carrie: Maybe. Todd: there was some something going on there. There's something that the Abraham Abram's well it's Abraham Abraham now in this chapter. Yo, it's Carrie: Abraham, right. Todd: Abraham's been waiting for this for 25 years, maybe longer. Just 25 years Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: since we joined the story after they took off again from Aaron. We don't know Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: from then. So he's been waiting and waiting and wait waiting to the point that it got impossible. They tried something else. And they all they all became accustomed to that. They all became real comfortable with the idea of Ishmael being the child of promise for 13 years. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: And then God shows up and messes everything up again. Throws in the the except he always told them, Yo, it's Carrie: Everything, huh? Todd: but he just throws in this this this this twist, you know, that this this wrinkle. And and Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: God shows up. And and finally, finally after all this waiting, even though Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: they thought that they were already there, well now it's going to become clear this this is a miraculous thing, but it's at that moment that God institutes circumcision. It's at that moment that God cuts him. That that to enter into the promise that I have for you you'll you will be cut in the most intimate area. You'll bleed before you enter into what I have for you. I don't know. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Well, I mean the location of it, I understand what you're saying about it being it being intimate. Also I feel like it's it's the producer of the descendants, like physic physically. Todd: Right, that's the thing. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: Is that that the very thing that God's been promising the Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: very tool he's gonna use for that is gonna be cut first Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: before it performs right. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Right. And I don't know, like again, I don't fully I understand like the symbolic connection. I just I mean it does it have anything to do with with s with sacrifices. You know, we talked about about blood, about cut you know, cutting the animal cutting the sacrificial Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: animals. you know, the blood is significant. Is that play any part of it? Todd: Well God says that my my covenant with you will be cut into your body. Right? Isn't that what he says? Yo, it's Carrie: Because it ha there's a covenant. Mm-hmm. And it's and it's permanent, which is another like that's another thing it's Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: gonna share. And he says that. He talks about the permanence of both. Todd: That way my covenant will be cut into your body, a permanent mark of my permanent covenant. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: I think the closest thing parallel probably, I mean, to this event, because Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: i i it is it is an event, they were circumcised, and then after Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: that they they w had been circumcised. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: And the event that closely matches that I think in in New Testament Christianity is baptism. Don't you think? Like it's a it's a it's the sign of the cov like it's the it's the outward manifest to the world that I'm entering into this covenant. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. It's like y the it it's like your participation in in it. Your joining it. Sure. Okay. Todd: Yeah. And it's obedience because we were we're I mean, there weren't that we know of any unbaptized believers in the New Testament. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Jesus said go out and baptize and teach people and you know, so that's what they did. So Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Mm-hmm. Todd: w when you see somebody who doesn't want to get baptized, it makes you wonder Well, what is it about the obedience there that's bothering you? 'Cause with Abraham he got right to it. Same day. Yo, it's Carrie: I know, same day, Todd: Everybody's going. He's gotta heal up before he's ready for the big night with Sarah. Yo, it's Carrie: An ouch I'm sorry an ouch I mean seriously, can we just talk briefly about the fact that this is you know before Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: anesthesia or anything? What the heck? Todd: Yeah. Well, obviously the the goal from here on out is that it'll be infants. But like it is now. Yo, it's Carrie: Yes, I mean that's Todd: So Yo, it's Carrie: not enjoyable either, but Todd: Right. Yo, it's Carrie: but I think they I think they use some sort of numbing. I hope they do. Todd: I don't know. Yo, it's Carrie: They've got to, right? Good lord. I feel like I Todd: I don't know. But Yo, it's Carrie: asked about this when my sons were born. I feel like I asked this. Todd: You probably did. See, so you probably know more than me. I never had any sons. So I never thought about it. Yo, it's Carrie: I forget that. You are so surrounded by women. anyway. Yeah. So okay. Okay, yeah, he got right to Todd: So anyway, I don't know other than I think it's about obedience. Clearly. Yo, it's Carrie: it. He got right to it. Todd: And and in and he's obeying. I mean Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: maybe not something that you'd want to obey that much. There could be reasons why you don't want to out of the gate. Yo, it's Carrie: Right? I wonder how I wonder how this was received. It's interesting that we don't get well, I I'm sorry. We do get his reaction. His reaction is immediate obedience, but is there any reaction? You know, we get such a description of his reaction about the announcement of his, you know, future son Isaac, but there's no there's no description about his reaction. Okay. Todd: Yeah. They don't No, it was a painful ordeal that they just did and then healed from, I suppose. Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. All right. Todd: We're gonna there's some other fun things in Genesis later on with that involve circumcision. Anyway Yo, it's Carrie: okay. okay. So Todd: They well I I think that yeah, I think it's about obedience. I think it's about it being cut into our body, that being part of the sign. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: maybe you're right. I I don't know. I I don't know what all it has to do with or why. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: other than I know it's it's here and that that that God told Abram to do that. And I also know that that I don't think today that we're under any obligation necessarily to to circumcise or not circumcise. I think that that's up to people Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: and and what they want to do. Paul made that clear. So we're not Jews. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. It's just right. It's just been a practice that's been continued for like, you know, for different right, right. Todd: But yeah, it's part of Western civilization. And when I looked it up, they did say there was some health benefits and some and lower STD rates and and and different things like that. I you know, whatever, all the different things. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Todd: So But but yeah. I I don't know. I thought that was interesting. The he definitely did it. I the the the juxtaposition of Ishmael and Isaac is the most, and then Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: God God coming to him, I did think it was kind of interesting that God came to Abraham Abraham at the hottest part of the day. And the reason why I thought that, in 18, it says Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: it was the hottest part of the day. He looked up and he sees three men standing. God appeared to Abraham and he sees three men standing there. And And then right away starts, you know, want wanting to do hospitality. But the it was the hottest part of the day. What I find interesting about that is that that in in that Middle Eastern culture, because it was it's so hot, you know, it's arid Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: and and and desert and whatever. And so what they what they tend to do is they is they would work earlier in the day, and then Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: they would kind of have their siesta, their big meals kind of in the middle, and then they'd work later in the day, right? So Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: during the during the hottest part of the day they're not working. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. So you can have that. Todd: Which I think is so Abram's Abra Abraham is at rest, which is when God says to us, Be still and know that I am God. Does I I wonder if God tends to show up at times when we're when we're at rest, you know what I mean? And and we're and w maybe at times you Yo, it's Carrie: interesting, yeah. Todd: could say that we're we're ready to receive him. We're listening or whatever. Abram Abraham's ready to receive him here. You know what I mean? He's sitting Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: there and he pops up and gets to it, you know? Yo, it's Carrie: Sure. Todd: And And God this seems like a separate event from the other. And so God's reaffirming exactly what he told Abraham who Abraham laughed l last time and Sarah laughs this time. And I also Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: think it's funny that God isn't like 'cause like God can get mad at people. You see that throughout the old testament, but it with Abra with Abraham and Sarah, he doesn't really seem to get mad. He's just like, Yeah, you laughed. Yo, it's Carrie: Right, well so she l it says she laughed within herself. So like yeah, like is like I think he it's him s his way of saying like he knew that she thought that was funny or unbelievable, you know? It's pretty funny. Todd: Yeah. And he's like, Yes, you did, you left. And it was unbelievable, but we gotta remember in this, this wasn't like the this isn't like Mary. This isn't the Immaculate Conception. Like Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: Abraham and Sarah had to get after Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: it after the circumcision, right? Like they had Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: to do their part and their part was go get Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Do you think yeah, do you think they stopped all their efforts after Ishmael was born? Todd: I no, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that they did have to to take a further step of okay, Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: let's go. You know, after the 'cause it's after the circ it's post circumcision. And Abraham's finally ready to go and they're like Alrighty Yo, it's Carrie: God said it's time. That's funny. Todd: You wonder if because he he obeyed so fast if maybe God gave him like a supercharged sex life for a while or something. It's supernatural to fulfill Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: his promise. These two old people. Yo, it's Carrie: Maybe. Or if Sarah's like, my gosh, like what? So Dad, you said a couple weeks ago when we were talking about this and the names, you said that you were gonna talk about the change of the name. The changing of the names. Todd: Yeah. Although when I look at it, I don't know. I mean Abraham he changes because you'll be Abraham, meaning that I'm making you the father of many nations. And Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: then Sarah is the same thing, right? Sarah Caller Sarah. I'll bless her. I'll give you a son by her. how I'll bless her. Nations will come from her. Kings of nations will come from her. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: So it's all about It it's all about what God's starting, which is the line of faith, is what God's starting right here with Abraham. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: I understand that it's also alongside of that is natural Israel for a while, and they're and they're intertwined with that, up until Christ comes and then breaks the doors open and takes it. It it it's it's taken away from the unfaithful son that it was given to and it's given to the outsiders. You know, we see that Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. I was gonna say he cracks it open for everyone. Todd: Yeah, Jesus talks about but it's not he doesn't just crack it open for everyone. Not that Jews couldn't get saved, but he does say that those originally invited were not allowed in. Which is interesting. Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: that's interesting. Okay. Todd: I don't know. But obviously a lot of Jews did well some Jews did. Probably Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: if you look at at it as a as a percentage, Jews are maybe some of the most hardened off toward attempts at at Christianizing them, at at evangelizing Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: them. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: So whatever happened at that point with Yo, it's Carrie: At that time, you mean yeah. Mm-hmm. Todd: With re with rejecting Jesus, that final rejection when it says that they've been rejected and killing prophets forever and finally it's like the parable where finally the the guy sends a son after they've beaten up everybody else and then they kill his son. And what's he gonna do? He's gonna come and he's gonna wreak justice on all of those who who killed him. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: but yeah, the point is that that this is the line of faith that's gonna go on forever and ever. So God has God is with you know, with Noah and and with whatever he had he had dealt with Noah and Noah had had b had become the you know in the ark the savior kind of metaphor Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: i is essentially what he was and Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: to to bring humanity into the new earth, you know, the new heavens and the new earth. And then this is the first time that God's coming down and he's gonna re-engage with a specific man in a specific Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: family in a specific line, and that's what we start to see through the rest of the New Testament, is how God is is going to is is setting up his redemption story because he has to re-engage with man first. He has to get maybe I've heard this before. You have to Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: get people lost before you can get found. And a lot of people don't know they're lost. And then so God Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Okay. Todd: That's part of why he's given the laws, is that's where he's going. He's working he's working his creation, humanity, through the steps of bringing conscience first and then recognizing failure, and then you you know you're setting up where then you're ready to accept forgiveness because you've tried everything else and you can't ascend the moral heights that you know are there. Somehow you Yo, it's Carrie: Okay. Todd: somehow we always fall short. And so within that then is the thirst f that Jesus comes and God says, Okay, right? Yo, it's Carrie: Right. So do you think okay. D do you think that one like with the name changes here, do you think it's also to signify that this is this is something new? Like whenever Todd: Yes. Yo, it's Carrie: God establishes a covenant, there's there's always some big there's always some big signal that, you know, that that this is something new. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. right. Todd: Yeah, and often often he changes their names. Think of Peter, Simon, you're gonna be Peter. Think of Paul. Saul becomes Paul. Yo, it's Carrie: Saul becoming Paul. so yeah, this I'm that's that's what I th figured here. It's like this is like going to be a whole Todd: I think that too. I think that Yo, it's Carrie: new era. Todd: Yeah, that God gives us a and it talks about in Revelation, Yo, it's Carrie: For them. Todd: God gives each of us a new name. That it that is only known. That was what we were gonna talk about. I dropped Yo, it's Carrie: yeah, that was the that was the thing that you were gonna talk about, yeah. Todd: the ball on that, I don't know. Yo, it's Carrie: Ha ha ha Todd: This gate came up for Lorne and I gotta So no, I d I think I do think that's part of it. I think God gives us a new Yo, it's Carrie: That's alright, that's alright. You were busy, but no, that's cool. So Mm-hmm. Todd: name. And then I think the best maybe the best part of all is this Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: This just kind of exclamation point on this chapter of is anything too hard for God? Like he's just he's reinforcing that. He's reinforcing Yo, it's Carrie: right. Mm-hmm. Todd: it by taking so long, by waiting so long, by letting them try some other ways and letting them think for 13 years that the yeah, I think we got it. I think God's this is I guess this is what he meant. I don't Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Did God say that? Is that what God said? Todd: Well, no, but when Abraham comes back to it and says, when God's talking about what he's gonna do Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: and talks about Sarah and how I'm gonna bless her, and I'll give her a son and this, that, and the other, Abraham laughs, and then he says, Listen, keep Ishmael alive and well before you. And Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: it says, But God said, That's not what I mean. I'm not talking about Ishmael, is essentially what God's saying. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: And so he's making it real clear to Abraham that Or to Abraham at this point that Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: like you I I I understand that you've got this boxed up a certain way in your mind. I'm telling you you're wrong. Now that doesn't mean that Ishmael's out, that he's not gonna be blessed or any of this, but he's not the one I'm doing it through. Yo, it's Carrie: Right. But when he said is anything too hard for God, is that is that God speaking? I'm trying to Todd: Yes, that's God speaking. That's an eighteen. That's where God said to Abram, Why did Sarah laugh, saying, Me have a baby? Is anything too hard for God? Yo, it's Carrie: okay. So he's reco okay, he's recounting. Okay, got it. Yeah. Todd: And then he looks at him and I s I picture him winking and saying, I'll be back next year. I think so. So I and I think Yo, it's Carrie: God's a winker. I think so too. Yeah, that's cool. Todd: that's the best part, is that it's That God's so preposterous maybe we should laugh. Like he even wants him to name Isaac laughter. Like God God kinda embraces it a little bit because he probably he knows, yeah, I'm taking it to to to the extreme so that you'll know it wasn't you. It could have only been me. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Right. Todd: So Yo, it's Carrie: I yeah, I like that. I didn't remember that that's what Isaac meant. That's cool. Todd: Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: That Abraham's laughing. It's such a great cool. Todd: So maybe it's encouraging that that even attempted if we're looking at the at the Ishmael thing, Yo, it's Carrie: Uh-huh. Todd: even that they tried, God doesn't ever rebuke them for it. And Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Ishmael is gonna be blessed by God. God is gonna use him some. Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: Maybe that's a picture of God works all things together for good for those that love him. You know what I mean? Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Todd: That he can take even our mistakes and even our missteps and somehow Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Todd: he weaves them all together. And we think we look back and we think, I don't know I don't remember it that way, but that's beautiful. How did he do that? Yo, it's Carrie: Right. Yeah, that is encouraging. Todd: So Yo, it's Carrie: That our our mistakes might I mean, he'll make something good out of them. Todd: Yeah. You know what I think? I think God has a lot more grace for us trying things than not trying. It's like the parable of the talents when he gives the one guy five thousand and the one Yo, it's Carrie: Mm. Todd: guy two thousand and the one guy thousand, and the Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. Todd: two with the five thousand and two thousand double and the master comes back and he praises them and the one guy's like I knew you were a hard master and I buried and hid And he's like, It's it's criminal to live cautiously like that. You've got to faith is spelled. R I S K, that was John Wimber, I think, who said that. Yo, it's Carrie: that's cool. Todd: And I think that's true. God God's infinitely more forgiving of us when we're taking swings. I think. As opposed to not, as opposed to just being stuck in inaction and stuck in Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. Right. I mean well well yes. If I mean he knows like he knows if Abraham and Sarah thought that they were doing as well. Right, right. So I think Todd: Attempted in good faith, probably, is what Yes, yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: if we make a mistake like thinking that we're that we're doing the right thing, you know? Todd: I'm not talking about Jimmy Swaggert and how he like well, you just gotta take a swing with the hooker. That's not what I mean. Don't you remember in the eighties the televangelist, Jimmy Swaggert? Well, there was Jim and Tammy Faye Baker. That was PTL. Yo, it's Carrie: his story. Yeah. Well, I remember Baker, that's the one I remember. Todd: And then there was Jimmy Swagger had the same thing, kinda. Jimmy Swaggert was Yo, it's Carrie: my gosh, it's tough. Todd: a big evangelist who was amazing on the piano. You know who his cousin was? Jerry Lee Lewis. Yeah. Yo, it's Carrie: Whoo That's right Yes I remember from the movie That's cool Yeah Todd: Yeah, they're both amazing on the piano, yeah. Anyway, guys, that was for free. So listen, check out Wildly Opinionated News Hour. I think we did a pretty good job with this chapter. We don't wrap it up in a tiny little thing. You just gotta take what you can get. That's what we do. Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. We just walk we walk through it, we talk about it. No, this is good. Thank you. Todd: Hit follow if you enjoy, subscribe. Love to have comments. If you disagree, can't imagine. But if you do, we'd love to hear about it. Even if you agree, we'd love to hear from you. So on any of the platforms, YouTube, Yo, it's Carrie: Yeah. We're open. We're open for discussion. Todd: Twitter, TikTok, whatever, wherever you find us. So and check out Wildly Opinion News Hour, go to ToddSworld.net. Check out my books. Insurrection 2. You should probably start with Insurrection 1. I mean, that's what I'd recommend. There's audiobooks of both. There's audiobooks of Witness 2. So I'm just saying. If Yo, it's Carrie: Mm-hmm. You're recommending the first one before the second? I think that's good good advice. Todd: you can't wait, you can go the other way. I don't care. It doesn't matter to me. Yo, it's Carrie: Ha ha ha. Todd: After you read two, you'll be like, damn, this is good. I gotta read one. Yo, it's Carrie: Might as well just start there. Thank you. Sounds good. Todd: All right, guys. Carrie, thanks for joining me today. We will catch you next week. Every Wednesday, Beers with Jesus. Alright. Thanks, guys. See ya. Yo, it's Carrie: All right, but bye.