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Easter Episode--The Meaning of the Atonement: What Justice Requires and How Mercy and Christ's Sacrifice Satisfies Those Demands · ToddTalks--Spirit By Design: Your Weekly Survival Guide

0:25
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Todd Talk, Spirit by Design, where I help you to develop your spiritual strengths to survive and thrive during the upheavals of the last days.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: If you've ever flown in an airplane into a cloud layer at night, you know something strange may happen.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: The moment the horizon disappears, your body may begin to betray you.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: Your inner ear, normally so reliable on the ground, is responsible for telling you what is up and down.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: But in this instance, it starts sending false signals to your brain.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: It tells you that the aircraft is banking when it's level.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: It tells you you're climbing when you're descending.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: It tells you you're steady when you're actually turning into a spiral.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: We have a name for it: spatial disorientation or spatial deep.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: And it has killed many skilled aviators.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: We learn from their terrible mistakes.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: The cure is simple but difficult.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Ignore what your senses say, trust your instruments.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Now, spiritually speaking, we live in a world filled with moral plows.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: Truth is debated, falsehoods are declared truth, and truth is declared a lie.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: Right and wrong are redefined, and many people are flying purely by field.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: But God has given us instruments, scriptures, prophets, the spirit, and at the center of the instrument panel sits the greatest doctrine in the universe, the atonement of Jesus Christ.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: For this Easter episode, I'm going to delve deep into the meaning of the atonement.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: Tonight we're going to go much deeper than a typical Sunday school explanation or lesson.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: We're going to explore questions like, why was suffering required?
2:18
SPEAKER_00: Why couldn't God simply forgive?
2:21
SPEAKER_00: Why did Christ have to descend below all things?
2:24
SPEAKER_00: And what role do eternal law and intelligences play in the entire plan of redemption?
2:31
SPEAKER_00: To answer that, I'll draw on scripture, modern prophets, and doctrinal insights explored by Kleon Skousy.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: If you haven't heard of him, I highly recommend his talk, The Meaning of the Atonement.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: You can find it on YouTube, which details out much about what I'm going to speak today.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I'm going to quote from it quite a bit.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: Because when you finally understand the Atonement, you begin to see the universe differently and begin to understand about God, our Heavenly Father, and the nature of truth, justice, and mercy.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: This weekend is Easter Sunday, and we are going to focus and do a deep dive into the Atonement.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: First, let's go back in time to the premortal existence, the antmortal existence.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: God, our Heavenly Father, often referred to as Elohim in the Old Testament, is the actual father of our spirits.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: We are his children.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: We came from intelligence that existed and was greater than foreign.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: I'll get deeper into that later, but first we were all gathered, and the plan was presented to send us to earth in order to receive bodies of flesh and bone, as God the Father has.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: You see, he presented a plan where we would be tried and tested, not remembering our premortal existence, and would have to learn to follow the rules he'd give us.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: We'd have agency, which is an eternal law, and learn to choose good from evil, right from wrong.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: Since he knew we'd sin, he would provide a savior.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: Jesus volunteered to serve as the Savior and sacrifice himself for us.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: He became Jehovah, and through him, under God's authority, the earth was created.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: There is a statement in the scriptures that has puzzled readers for generations.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: It comes from Doctrine and Covenants 2936.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: Behold, the devil was before Adam, for he rebelled against me, saying, Give me thine honor, which is my power.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: That phrase is fascinating.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: Give me thine honor, which is my power.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: How is God's honor his power?
4:50
SPEAKER_00: What does that mean?
4:52
SPEAKER_00: And why would Satan want it?
4:54
SPEAKER_00: Satan had another plan, which was rejected.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: He wanted the honor and glory of God and claimed he'd force everyone to choose right.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: And all would be saved.
5:06
SPEAKER_00: He rebelled and was cast out of heaven when his idea wasn't chosen.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: Basically, he wanted to take away everyone's agency.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: He and a third of the children of God were cast out of heaven onto the earth as spirits to torment and tempt man.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: This agency is not just a nice philosophical idea.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: It is a fundamental law of existence.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: It was one of the primary purposes for which we came to earth.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: God allows his children to choose because eternal law requires voluntary righteousness.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: Forced goodness is not real goodness.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: Compelled obedience does not produce growth.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: It does not produce even true obedience.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: Sure, you can force somebody to obey, but you can't change their hearts or their minds.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: The entire plan of salvation depends on agency.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: But agency is risky.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: Because when people are free to choose, they sometimes choose wrong.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: In fact, we often choose wrong.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: Sin becomes inevitable.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: And that leads us directly back to the need for the atonement.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: This is the very problem created by agency and the purpose of the council in heaven before the foundation of the world.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: Because we have agency, we inevitably make mistakes.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: We violate eternal law.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: And when we violate law, justice demands consequences.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: Justice is not punishment for punishment's sake.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: Justice protects order.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: It protects fairness.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: It ensures that wrongdoing is not ignored.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: But if justice were applied strictly to every human being, the outcome would be devastating.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: Every person would remain separated from God forever.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: Because as we know, no unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of heaven.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: This is the dilemma that the atonement resolves.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: We'll get into the details of how shortly.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: After several thousand years, it was time for Christ to come.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: His birth was heralded, prophesied about, and spoken of for millennia.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: I love the Scouson description.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: He said, Now you listen to the angels when they appeared to the shepherds.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: The fact that Jesus was born wasn't the important thing.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: Just being born wasn't important.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: The angels frightened the shepherds terribly.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there they were, just out.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: It was early in the spring.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: It must have been April.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't December the 25th.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: That's when the Romans were celebrating the birthdate of Saul, their sun god.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: Christians didn't have a birthdate, so they said, Well, now that we, the Romans, were adopting Christianity, we'll take the birthdate of Sol, the sun god.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: That's how it happened to be the 25th of December.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: There weren't any sheep out on the 25th of December.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: They're out in the spring when the grass is starting to grow.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: It starts in the second week of March, so that's why the shepherds were out.
8:17
SPEAKER_00: So they're watching their sheep, lots of wolves out there in those days.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: That's why they're watching them.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden it happened.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: Here's this burst of light, and a personage appears, and he knew he'd scared them.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: He said essentially, It's alright, it's alright.
8:33
SPEAKER_00: He said, Fear not, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: For unto you was born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: And this shall be a sign unto you.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: You shall find him wrapped in squaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: And then the heavenly choirs couldn't be held back, and they just split the veil and they sang, Glory to God on the highest, and on earth peace, goodwill toward men.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: Now, I think maybe we were there.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure the saints from Adam on down were there.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: Maybe those of us who hadn't been to Earth yet weren't allowed to be there, but a lot of people were there, and they sang, It must have been exciting to be there in that great conference just before Jehovah, who'd appeared to Nephi the second just the day before, and said he was going to come in the flesh tomorrow.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: And tonight would be the sign.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: Now here he is, and he is ready.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: He's telling us all goodbye, and he's about to go down into the amnesia of the second estate.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: So he won't even know who he is.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: You don't even know who you are.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know who I am.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: Isn't that exciting?
9:44
SPEAKER_00: By the time he was twelve, he'd been ministered to by angels, and they had told him who he was.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: He had seen enough visions and revelations so he could pick up Isaiah.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: He could take Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and talk to the most learned scribes there in the Solomon's porches on the Temple Square and say, now this is what Isaiah really saw.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: They were fascinated that the 12-year-old boy who hadn't even been to the school of Gemail yet, he knew all the answers to all these mystical scriptures that they had studied so hard, trying to understand.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: By the time he was 30, he was ready for his ministry and had some marvelous experiences.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: He's still learning about himself.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: In fact, when he'd get wonderful things like Lazarus rising from the dead, he'd say, Thank you, Father, thank you.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: And he would cry.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: He did it for me.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Father.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: And he'd cry.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: He was just kind of learning what it was like to be the Son of God and to have these wonderful powers.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: But I'll tell you, as he approached that great final Gethsemane, that shook him.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: He thought he was equal to it.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: He was doing pretty good, right up to the time that he saw Judas go out.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: He was pretty sad, and he was looking around the table, and he said, One of you will betray me.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Peter said, John, John, ask him which one.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: So John the beloved said, Which one?
11:15
SPEAKER_00: He to whom I give the saw, he took some bread, dipped it into the gravy, and handed it unto Judas, and said, Whatsoever thou doest, do thou quickly.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: It was beginning to get to him.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: He had washed their feet already.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: And as soon as Judas went out, he stood up in that seventeenth chapter of John and gives that great high priest prayer in which he said, And now, O Father, neither pray I for these alone, but for them also who shall believe on them through their words, that they all might be one as thou father art in me, and I in thee, that they also might be one in us.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: That is a great prayer.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: Then he said to his disciples, I must go pray, I must pray.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: And so he went from the upper room, and apparently across the temple square, and down through the golden gate and across Brook Kidron, where we've walked so many times.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: I visited it for the twenty-third time here in October.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: Went on up into the groves of the olive trees, and then something interesting happened.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: Eight disciples he had waiting, sort of at the gateway, they immediately fell asleep.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: He went further up the hill and had the three remaining apostles, there were only eleven of them since Judas had left, and had them wait.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: And apparently John was the only one that stayed awake as far as we know.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: At least he's the only one that recorded the details of what we know about what happened.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: And it says that Jesus went and threw himself full length on the ground.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: He didn't kneel at a rock or at a tree, he just threw himself on the ground.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: I want you to all put down, first of all, Mark 14, 36, where Jesus said to his father, O Father, all things are possible unto thee.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: In other words, you are God.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: You can do anything.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: You have it within your power.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: And then the petition, take this cup from me.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: Don't make me do it.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: Work it out some other way, please.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Do it without my having to go through with this.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: He was trembling.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: Now, alright.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: Now, as the father knew there wasn't any other way.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: All things are impossible unto God, but he's a God of law.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: He's a God of cause and effect.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: He's a God of love.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: He's a God of justice.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: But what the Son had been called to do is the way.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: There isn't any other way.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: So he had to send an angel.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: I wish we had that conversation.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: We can only guess what the angel might have said, but he ministered to Jesus and he probably said, You don't have to do this.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Everybody has their free agency, but the Father knew you would do it.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: And that's why you were ordained from the preexistence.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: Because he knew you would.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: But you don't have to.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: If you don't do it, everything in which your hand participated by way of creation will go back to outer chaos.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: The earth, the animals, the plants, the human beings, their bodies, all the other planets on which there are similar families that you helped create, they all go back to outer chaos.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: The only way they can be preserved and perpetuated and exalted is to have you do this.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: The angel probably said something like that.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: At least he convinced the Savior that he must go forward when he wanted the Father's will to be done.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: And so that's when Jesus said, Thy will be done.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: And he sweat great drops of blood.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: Now, let me give you the other passage that fills in the details.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: Matthew 26, 39.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: He said, Let this cup pass from me.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: Luke 22, 43.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: The angel came and ministered to him.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: Luke 22, 44.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: As soon as he had said, Thy will be done, the terror of the assignment came upon him with such an overwhelming impact that the capillaries of his circulatory system couldn't even contain his blood, and it came through the sweat glands onto his skin as it were great drops of blood.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: That's a kind of suffering you and I probably couldn't even contemplate, let alone endure.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: But he did.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: And then he said in Matthew 26 42, Thy will be done.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: Acts 4.12 states, Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: God the Father, Elohim, cannot save us.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: Only in and through Jesus Christ can we be saved.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: Does that bother you a little, that God who can do anything can't save us?
16:10
SPEAKER_00: It bothered Cleon Scous and he kept asking questions.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: I'll get to more of his talk in a minute, but ask yourself, why can't Elohim, God the Father, save us?
16:20
SPEAKER_00: After all, he's the father of everything.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: The answer?
16:28
SPEAKER_00: Because God Himself operates within eternal natural law.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: This idea appears throughout Scripture.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: In Doctrine of Covenants 130, 20 and 21, we read: There is a law irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundation of this world upon which all blessings are predicated.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: Think about that statement.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: Law existed before the world.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Law existed before humanity.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: And according to revelations given through Joseph Smith, law is woven into the very structure of reality.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Joseph Smith taught, all kingdoms have a law given.
17:08
SPEAKER_00: In other words, law is not arbitrary, it is part of the fabric of existence.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: Just as gravity governs physical matter, moral law governs spiritual existence.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: And God Himself honors these laws perfectly.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Which is why he could not save us in our sins.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: There had to be an intercessor, an intermediary.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: Christ chose to be wounded for our sake.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: Imagine for a moment a universe where justice didn't matter, where wrongdoing carried no consequence.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: I know it appears that way in Washington or Hollywood sometimes, but hear me up.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: Where harm could occur without accountability, such a universe would collapse into chaos.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: It would become the purge.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: Justice protects order.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: Justice preserves trust.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: Justice sustains harmony.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: The Book of Mormon teaches in Alma 42.25 What do you suppose that mercy can rob justice?
18:15
SPEAKER_00: I say it to you, name, not one whip.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: If so, God would cease to be God.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: That statement is crucial.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: God simply cannot overlook sin.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: If he did, justice would be violated.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: And if justice were violated, the eternal order of the universe would collapse.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: As Alma explained, if so, God would cease to be God.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: In other words, the very nature of divine authority depends on perfect obedience to eternal law.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: Now we arrive at the central paradox.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: The divine dilemma, if you will.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: God is perfectly just, but God is also perfectly merciful.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: Justice demands consequences, mercy desires forgiveness.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: How can both exist simultaneously?
19:09
SPEAKER_00: This is the cosmic dilemma that the atonement resolves.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: Christ steps in as a voluntary substitute.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: He satisfies justice by paying the price of sin.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: And because justice is satisfied, mercy can operate.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: This is why the atonement is sometimes described as the great act of mediation.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: Christ experienced the suffering caused by sin, not just the sins themselves, but the pain that created, the sorrow, the heartbreak, the injustice.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: Every tear humanity has ever shed for every reason was known to him.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: This is why in the Book of Mormon, it says in Alma 7, 11 through 12, And he shall go forth suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: And this that the word might be fulfilled, which saith, He will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: And he will take upon him death that he may loose the bands of death which binds his people.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: And he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh, how to succor his people according to their infirmities.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: Satisfy justice and develop perfect compassion.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: Early apostles in the Restored Church taught deeply about the infinite nature of Christ's sacrifice.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: For example, James E.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: Talmudge wrote in Jesus the Christ, the atonement brought by Jesus Christ is infinite both as to the extent and as to power.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: He explained that Christ's sacrifice extends beyond the earth itself.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: It is cosmic in scope.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Another powerful teaching comes from John Taylor.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: He wrote, It was necessary that the Son of God should descend below all things in order that he might raise all things.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: Think about that phrase, descend below all things.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: That means Christ experienced the full death of mortal suffering.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: Every pain, every grief, every sorrow, every injustice.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: Imagine that moment, the Son of God kneeling alone in the garden, taking upon himself the sins of the world.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Every lie, every betrayal, every act of cruelty, every broken heart, your struggles, your fears, your regrets, your loneliness.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: He felt them all.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: Those billions of lives all at once.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: I've heard and I like to think of it as he went through the Temple of Gethsemane, where he took each one of Our names and applied the atonement for all the sins, sorrows, sadness, sickness, everything that we've ever experienced individually.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Modern prophets continue to emphasize the infinite reach of Christ's sacrifice.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: As taught by Russell and Nelson, the atonement of Jesus Christ is infinite without end.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: It is infinite in time, infinite in power, infinite in scope.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: It reaches backward to Adam, forward to the last human being, downward to the lowest sinner, and upward to the highest heaven.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: No one is beyond its reach.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: Now the question comes: why does Christ's suffering and dying on the cross satisfy justice?
22:50
SPEAKER_00: The Romans killed and crucified a lot of people.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: They were really good at it.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: Why did his suffering matter so much?
22:59
SPEAKER_00: That leads us to a deeper discussion on the nature of God and his power.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: Remember, he stated that honor is his power.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: Let's look a little deeper at the nature of the universe.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: I already discussed that he works according to natural and eternal laws.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: In 2 Nephi 2.14, we read, and this gives us a hint as to the nature of the universe.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: It says, I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: For there is a God, and he hath created all things, both in the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to act to be acted upon.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: That's the important piece.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: The building blocks of the unus are things that act and things that are acted upon.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: Now in DNC 9330 we read, That which acts, the Lord said, is called intelligence or light.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: So that which acts is called intelligence.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: What's an intelligence?
24:08
SPEAKER_00: I like Kleon Scousin's description, so I'll go through it here.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: Everything that exists, which is truth, is filled with intelligence.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: Everything is filled with it.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: Now the best way for you to know about intelligence is to find out about it the way I found about it.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: This is Cleon Scousin.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: I said to Brother Woodsoe, what's an intelligence like?
24:31
SPEAKER_00: He said, Well, look in the mirror and tell me.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: You're an intelligence.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's right.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm an intelligence, aren't I?
24:40
SPEAKER_00: Now he said, How big are you?
24:43
SPEAKER_00: I said, I don't know.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: He said, Where are you?
24:47
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm right here.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: Pointing down.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: He said, you're not down there.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: Did you notice?
24:54
SPEAKER_00: Isn't that down from where you are?
24:56
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, it is.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: He said, take hold of your chin.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: Shut your eyes.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: So I did.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: Now he said, is that below you or above you?
25:06
SPEAKER_00: Or is that right on?
25:08
SPEAKER_00: I said, that's below me.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: He said, take a hold of your ear.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: Is that beside you?
25:14
SPEAKER_00: I said, yeah, that's out there.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: He said, where is your little I am?
25:21
SPEAKER_00: I said, it's way in there, isn't it?
25:23
SPEAKER_00: He said, I think so.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: It's way back in there.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: It's a little tiny I am.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: It's self-knowing, it's self-determining, it's anticipatory, it can learn.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: It's a little intelligence.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: Our spirit.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: Fascinating.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: And it's always existed as an independent entity, a little I am.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh, alright, that's an intelligence, alright.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: Now in DNC 93, 29, and 30 we read, sorry, that was the end quote.
25:57
SPEAKER_00: In DNC 93, 2930 we read, Man was also in the beginning with God.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself as all intelligence also.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, there is no existence.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: So intelligence is the essence or the universe that acts for itself, the element that acts.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: In Abraham 3, 19 to 23, we read, These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: There shall be another more intelligent than they.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.
26:44
SPEAKER_00: Now the Lord had shown unto thee Abraham the intelligences that were organized before the world was.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: And among all these there were many of the noble and great ones.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: And God saw these souls that they were good, and stood in the midst of them, and he said, These I will make my rulers, for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good, and he said unto me, Abraham, thou art one of them.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: Thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: Cleon Scous and gives a great description of what all this means.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: And I quote, The intelligences, see, it talks about spirits, and that some are more intelligent than others.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: Then it tells you that it's talking about spirits which are organized intelligences.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: So you're really talking about intelligences that are one above another.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: This is the fact that intelligences are organized and graded.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: What the Lord is saying, and we start out with the little ones, and we come up to here you are, some of my most magnificent intelligences that I gave bodies to in my image.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: You're real super, you're special.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: Joseph Smith described the graduated intelligences that are structured in nature, documented, history of the church, uh 4, 5, 19.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: He says, He gave this sermon to the apostles and their wives so that they'd know this wonderful, marvelous God science of great graduated intelligence.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: But then he didn't say any more about it, and then we have to go to the brethren, the early brethren, who heard it to get more details.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: End quote.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: Now in DNC 9333, we learn for man is spirit, the elements are eternal, and spirit and element inseparably connected received force of joy.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: You see, that which is acted upon is element.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: Our spirits dwell in our meatsacts, known as bodies, created from the elements so that our spirit can act upon them.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: Continuing with Scouson, we learn, quote, Journal of Discourses 7-2, where Brain Young says these little bits of elements are capacitated to receive intelligence.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Now notice what happens.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: You get a little piece of element, and it must be extremely tiny.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: You attach a little intelligence to it, now you can talk to it and say, move that little fellow over there.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: You two combine together.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: Now bring in three more, that's fine.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Let's get this thing going now.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: We've got ourselves a little atom here working around.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: We get enough of those, you get a molecule.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: It's a universe when you get through.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: I don't know how many, maybe a million little intelligences and bits of elements all spinning around that little universe there.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: We call it an atom.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: It's so tiny you can't see it.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: We put a lot of them together, we get a molecule, and they'll do certain things.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: The Lord said in the 88th section how he gives them orders and he gives them a pattern that they follow.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: They'll always follow that pattern unless you want them to do something else.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: And so you get two little molecules that we call hydrogen, and another little molecule that is completely different called oxygen, and you put them together and you got water.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: You see, isn't that nice?
30:03
SPEAKER_00: We got water.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: But Jesus said, Wine, you know what to do.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: High grade of wine, please.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: And it all happened.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden, a mystery is gone out of the miracle.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: You and I perform things by playing force against force.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: That's the way you make a motor go or a rocket launch.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, you explode something and it's force.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: The Lord talks to things.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: That's a better way, don't you agree?
30:30
SPEAKER_00: See, God doesn't violate wine, he sets things going.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: And so you've got H2O, it's water.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: He said, but I need wine.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh, alright.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: Now that's the universe in which we live.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: This is God science.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: Brother Witzo said, Isn't that thrilling, Oder Scousen?
30:48
SPEAKER_00: And I said, I never even thought of that being a possibility.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: He said, God has revealed so many marvelous things to us, if we'll just study it out and put it all together.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: End quote.
31:04
SPEAKER_00: Alright, just a little bit more here.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: Abraham 4 9, 10, 12, and 18 show where you see intelligence responding to commandments of the gods during the creative process.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: Watch what it says.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: And the gods commanded the dry land to come up, and they watched until they were obeyed.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: Dirt doesn't obey as dirt unless it had intelligence in it.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: Would it?
31:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if it's just stuff, it has no capacity to obey.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: This is one of the great revelations of God.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: These little intelligences are in everything.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: I can move a mountain.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: I just tell it to move, and I can let my priesthood tell it to move.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: And if it's authorized, it'll move.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: This takes the mystery out of the miracles.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: It shows the way God works.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: He talks to things, and the little bits of intelligence that always conform to natural and eternal law say, Yes, sir.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: He speaks and they respond.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: They honor him in his role.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: That's why if he strays from the divine natural law of justice, he would lose the respect that these little intelligences have for him.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: His honor is what gives God power.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: He always does what is right.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: Now, imagine the universe filled with intelligent beings, capable of recognizing truth and justice.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: What kind of universe could function under those conditions?
32:34
SPEAKER_00: It would require perfect fairness, perfect justice, perfect integrity.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: If God governed unfairly, if he violated the laws of justice, those intelligences would recognize it, and his authority would collapse.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: That is the idea that Lance Gauss explored so carefully.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: God's power does not come from raw force.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: He is not a tyrant.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: His power comes from perfect trust, perfect integrity, and perfect honor.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: Because every intelligence in the universe recognizes that God governs according to eternal law.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: This is why the scriptures repeatedly describe God as just.
33:15
SPEAKER_00: Now we begin to understand that statement and doctrine of covenants.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: Give me thine honor, which is my power.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Honor means moral credibility.
33:25
SPEAKER_00: It means the trust and respect that intelligent beings place in someone who always does what is right.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: God's honor is his reputation for perfect justice, perfect mercy, and perfect reliability.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: Because he never violates eternal law, because he always does what is right.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: Every intelligence in the universe trusts him, and that trust is what sustains his authority.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: If God ever acted unjustly, even once, his honor would be destroyed, and with it his power.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: This is why the Book of Mormon says something, as we already talked about in Alma.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: If so, God would cease to be God.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean God would literally disappear.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: It means his divine authority would collapse because it depends entirely on his perfect obedience to eternal law.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: Now, the rebellion of Satan becomes clear.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: Satan said, Give me thine honor, which is my power.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: He wanted God's authority without God's integrity.
34:31
SPEAKER_00: He wanted to rule without obeying eternal law.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: He wanted to save everyone by removing agency.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: He wanted socialism, communism.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: But if agency were removed, justice would be violated.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: And if justice were violated, God's honor would collapse.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: The entire moral order of the universe would be destroyed.
34:53
SPEAKER_00: That is why Satan's proposal could never succeed.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Since honor creates the power, that is also why Satan has power here on earth, because so many humans turn from God and give their honor knowingly and unknowingly to Satan, thereby giving him power to physically touch and interfere in the world.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: One of the most fascinating ideas discussed by Cleon Scouson is that the atonement was not just observed by humanity, it was observed by the universe, by angels, by intelligences, by eternal beings who recognized what was happening, they saw justice satisfied, they saw mercy extended, they saw God's perfectly perfect integrity preserved.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: The atonement demonstrated forever that God governs the universe in perfect righteousness.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: Why?
35:47
SPEAKER_00: Because these intelligences who love Jesus just as much as they love God and saw him as perfect, saw him live a perfect life, honored him.
36:09
SPEAKER_00: And when Jesus asks, not because we as sinners are perfect, but because he suffered for us, can justice be satisfied?
36:24
SPEAKER_00: And because of their honor and respect for God, all the intelligences will allow justice to be satisfied.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: That is the atonement.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: Because of the atonement, every intelligence in the universe can trust God completely.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: They know he will never violate eternal law.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: They know he will never act unjustly.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: They know he will always provide a way for mercy without destroying justice.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: That trust is the foundation of his power.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: His honor remains intact.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: The moral order of the universe stands secure.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: Now let's bring it back down to earth.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: Because this doctrine is not just a philosophy, it's person.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: The atonement means that when you repent, you are not asking God to ignore justice.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: You're asking him to apply the sacrifice of Christ.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: Justice has already been satisfied.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: Christ paid the price, which means mercy can now operate.
37:27
SPEAKER_00: You can be forgiven.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: You can change, you can become something new.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: The atonement did not end with death.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: Three days later came the resurrection.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15 22, for as an Adam all died, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: Because of the resurrection, every human being will live again.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: Every grave will open.
37:54
SPEAKER_00: Everybody will be restored.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: This is the universal gift of Christ that had fulfilled one of the main plans of salvation that were the reasons for our coming to this earth.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: God and now Jesus have bodies of flesh and blood.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: Many of the saints, from Adam on down to Christ, were resurrected and received their bodies at the time of Christ's resurrection and appeared unto many.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: We will all receive our body and perfected immortal.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: No more pains and ailments, no more sickness or death, no more unhappiness, never to be separated again.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: Applying the atonement in our lives is of paramount importance.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: Especially at this time of year as we celebrate Easter, we recognize that the gift that Christ gave to us is a personal gift.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: Atonement becomes personal through faith and repentance.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: As taught by David A.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: Elder W.
38:54
SPEAKER_00: Elder David A.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: Bednar, the enabling power of the atonement strengthens us to do things we can never do alone.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: It empowers change, it heals wounds, it transforms hearts.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: I remember flying over the mountains of Utah.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: This is almost 30 years ago.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: I'd just been on my second date with Tiffany up in Idaho.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: I'd flown up there to meet her, and as I flew off into the sunset, after kissing her, of course, I remember the sun shining brilliantly through the clouds, rays of light piercing the mountains over which I flew, and I knew there was a God.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: I knew that the atonement was real, and I've never doubted it since.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: The atonement of Jesus Christ is the most powerful force in the universe.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: It satisfies justice, it extends mercy, and it conquers death.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: It heals broken hearts.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: As the prophet Joseph Smith declared, the fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the apostles and prophets concerning Jesus Christ.
40:00
SPEAKER_00: Everything in the gospel points to him.
40:04
SPEAKER_00: Because he descended below all things, so that we could rise above all things.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: That is the cosmic reach, Christ's sacrifice.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: One of the things that early apostles of the restored church tried to help the saints understand was that the atonement wasn't just a historical event that happened in Jerusalem.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: It was cosmic escope, something that reverberated through eternity, something that satisfied eternal law.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: One of the clearest voices teaching this principle was the Apostle Wars from Pratt.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: Pratt was known as one of the most doctrinally analytical thinkers among the early leaders of the restoration.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: He loved to explore the mechanics of salvation, how eternal law, justice, and mercy interact.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: At one point he taught the atonement of the Son of God was necessary to satisfy the demands of justice, and without it the whole human family would have been lost.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: Notice what he says there.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: Justice had demands, not preferences, not suggestions, demands.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: And those demands had to be satisfied before mercy could flow.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: Pratt continued explaining that Christ's sacrifice was not symbolic, it was literally necessary to redeem the human family from the consequences of the fall.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: Without it, the laws governing the universe would require permanent separation from God.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: Think about that.
41:31
SPEAKER_00: Without the atonement, there would be no return home.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: Another early apostle who spoke beautifully about the Savior's sacrifice was Carlin Pratt.
41:43
SPEAKER_00: Harley Pratt had a poetic soul.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: He wrote some of the most moving descriptions of the gospel in early church literature.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: When he described the atonement, he emphasized something that sometimes gets overlooked.
41:54
SPEAKER_00: The atonement restores joy.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: He wrote, The Gospel is glad tidings of great joy.
42:01
SPEAKER_00: It is the power of God unto salvation because it reveals the means whereby man may be reconciled to God through the atonement of Christ.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: Notice that phrase.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: That word implies something beautiful.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: Humanity had become separated from God, but through Christ that relationship could be restored.
42:21
SPEAKER_00: The broken connection repaired, the distance closed.
42:25
SPEAKER_00: It's like a pilot who's lost contract with air traffic control in the middle of a storm.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: Suddenly the radio crackles back to life, guidance returns, direction returns, hope returns.
42:38
SPEAKER_00: That's what the atonement does.
42:39
SPEAKER_00: It reconnects us to heaven.
42:42
SPEAKER_00: One of the most powerful themes in Restoration theology is the idea that Christ descended below all things.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: And I've mentioned it multiple times.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: This concept appears in Doctrine and Covenants 88-6 and Doctrine of Covenants 122-8.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: And it was taught powerfully by their apostles like Bruce Armaki.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: McConkey explained, the Lord's atonement was infinitely eternal and was an infinite sacrifice for an infinite number of people.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: But he went further, he explained that Christ didn't just suffer physically, he experienced the totality of mortal suffering.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: Grief, loneliness, fear, pain, injustice, betrayal.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: Maconki once wrote, God himself atoned for the sins of the world, suffering the pains of all men.
43:31
SPEAKER_00: Think about that.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: All men, all women, all humanity.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: Every person who has ever lived, the weight of that suffering is beyond human comprehension.
43:41
SPEAKER_00: And yet the Savior chose it willingly.
43:45
SPEAKER_00: Now let's bring this doctrine down from the cosmic level to something personal, because ultimately the atonement is not just a theological concept, it's something meant to change your life, my life.
43:58
SPEAKER_00: The Savior didn't just suffer for Humanity as a whole, he suffered for you, your mistakes, your fears, your good struggles, your private regrets.
44:09
SPEAKER_00: As the Book of Mormon teaches, Alma 7, 11 through 12, Christ took upon himself pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: Why?
44:21
SPEAKER_00: So he would know how to help you.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: Perfectly, completely, individually.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: One of the most beautiful testimonies of Christ's redeeming power came from Bruce Armakon, who near the end of his life declared, I know that he lives, I know that he is the Son of the Living God.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: I know that he worked out the infinite and the eternally atonement.
44:44
SPEAKER_00: That is the message of the gospel.
44:47
SPEAKER_00: Because of Jesus Christ, justice is satisfied, mercy is possible, death is conquered, and broken hearts can heal.
44:57
SPEAKER_00: In aviation, there's something called structural integrity.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: Every airplane is designed with limits wing load limits, stress limits, performance limits.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: If those limits are violated, the airplane can fail.
45:10
SPEAKER_00: But when the aircraft operates within its design parameters, it functions beautifully and but fun to fly.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: The universe operates the same way.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: Eternal law provides the structure.
45:22
SPEAKER_00: Justice maintains the integrity, and the atonement provides the repair when damage occurs.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: Without it, the entire system would collapse.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: With it, redemption becomes possible.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: The deeper you explore the doctrine of the atonement, the more remarkable it becomes.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: It is not simply a religious symbol, it is the solution to the greatest moral problem in the universe.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: Justice is satisfied, mercy is extended, agency is preserved.
45:50
SPEAKER_00: God's honor remains intact and perfect.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: The humanity and humanity is given a path home.
45:59
SPEAKER_00: All because of Jesus Christ.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: I know Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.
46:05
SPEAKER_00: He died and rose again.
46:06
SPEAKER_00: He suffered for my numerous sins so that I can be redeemed.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: He suffered for yours as well.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: I accept the Lord as my Savior.
46:14
SPEAKER_00: I love him and hope to honor him with what I attempt to do with these episodes.
46:19
SPEAKER_00: Choose ye this day whom you will serve, but as for me and my house, I will serve the Lord.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: I hope you learned a little bit that you can think about on this Easter Sunday.
46:29
SPEAKER_00: If you'd like more clarification on any aspect, I highly recommend you listen to Kleon Scousen's talk, which I've repeated a lot of, but there's a lot more good information that he talks about.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: And I am also more than happy to answer any questions you may have.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: I can be reached at the email address listed in the show notes.
46:49
SPEAKER_00: You can also find me on Facebook and Instagram.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: Share this with your friends and family.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: If you like it, please rate and review Five Stars Preferred to help me navigate big text algorithm and grow this podcast so I can help other people.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: Subscribe and support, and as always, have a blessed day.